Re: Debian UK (was Re: What the DFSG really says about trademarks)
Em Sex, 2005-09-02 às 18:38 +0100, MJ Ray escreveu: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why should *charities* get special consideration, anyway? Being a charity doesn't automatically make them aligned with Debian's goals. Indeed, which is why debian should reach consensus before they trade. I think charities should get some special consideration because law enforces some level of openness and honour not required of other organisations. I must remember that you're restrictive to UK law. In Brasil, for instance, there is no such thing as charity organization. We have NGO's which are simply civil associations, not-for-profit, in general. If a NGO fullfill a set of requirements, it can be certified as a Civil Organization for the Public Interest (OCIP), which means that it can receive gov's money, and just that. So, a NGO (even a OCIP) is allowed to trade things, because the question (in the brazillian sense) is if there is profit or not. I mean, selling something for a value greater than the cost is *not* profit. Profit (in the brazillian sense) is the value that is shared among share-holders after the balance. So, let's not stick to country-specific laws... daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian UK (was Re: What the DFSG really says about trademarks)
Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis: Em Sex, 2005-09-02 =E0s 18:38 +0100, MJ Ray escreveu: [...] I think charities should get some special consideration because law enforces some level of openness and honour not required of other organisations. I must remember that you're restrictive to UK law. Did you mean that as agressively as I read it? I'm not restrictive, but English law is what I'm most familiar with, so if I generalise brokenly, or you use another place's law, corrections or explanations are needed. Maybe I should have named www.charitycommission.gov.uk before, for example. Where do charities exist but not need any openness or honour? In Brasil, for instance, there is no such thing as charity organization. Then no groups would get special consideration from that clause of my suggestion. What's the problem? [...] So, a NGO (even a OCIP) is allowed to trade things, because the question (in the brazillian sense) is if there is profit or not. I mean, selling something for a value greater than the cost is *not* profit. Profit (in the brazillian sense) is the value that is shared among share-holders after the balance. That sounds more like dividends than profits to me. It's debatable whether DUS's meals and booze-ups is paying members dividends-in-kind or funding promotional events. Amike, -- MJ Ray (slef), K. Lynn, England, email see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spi-trademark status, was: Why Debian Core Consortium ? Why not UserLinux? Why not Debian?
quote who=MJ Ray date=Sat, Sep 03, 2005 at 12:56:10AM +0100 So, it looks to me like help is most needed with educating about the debian trademark, drafting the more general trademark policy and summarising to SPI's board and members. Corrections welcome. Yes. Help would be welcome in all of these areas. Of course, this need not be a complete listl; we're not necessarily going to say no to other helpful efforts as well. Regards, Mako -- Benjamin Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mako.cc/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
New Maintainers
This is a summary of the AM report for Week Ending 04 Sep 2005. 2 applicants became maintainers. Christoph Berg myon I am a 27 year old computer science PhD student living in Saarbrcken in south-western Germany. I discovered the world of Linux and open source somewhere around 1995 and came to Debian about 3 years later. [...] On the non-Debian grounds, I am the upstream of ircmarkers and one of the active pisg developers. I am active on #mutt and #procmail and in the MuttWiki. [...] in which I'd like to contribute to Debian include ham radio applications, more Bridge-related packages, i18n support (utf-8, gettext, DDTP, aspell dictionaries), and QA work. And of course lots of other things as time evolves :-) Christopher Martin chrsmrtn I recently graduated from the University of Toronto with a Masters in History. Thus computing has always been a hobby, but one to which I devote considerable time. In 2001 I decided to try Linux, and though I installed several distributions, quickly settled upon Debian. While I came for the quality, I've since stayed for the community and the commitment to Free Software, which I find empowering and philosophically agreeable. Until 2004 I was content to evangelize Debian as a user. However, a combination of a desire to contribute back to the community, and to be a part of what I see as an important movement (Debian exemplifying the collective technical and social potential of Free Software), not to mention the presence of several itches in a few packages I used, led me to become a package maintainer, and as I honed my skills, to gradually increase the scope of my contribution. My long-term plans include the continued expansion of my work on the KDE packages, as part of a broader goal to improve Debian on the desktop. -- Martin Michlmayr http://www.cyrius.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian UK
Daniel writes: A not-for-profit organization (at least in Brasil) don't share the profits among the share-holders, I mean, don't pay dividends. That's true of a not-for-profit (sometimes called nonprofit) corporation in the US. Note, however, that not-for-profit is not the same as charitable. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian UK (was Re: What the DFSG really says about trademarks)
Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis: Em Seg, 2005-09-05 =E0s 12:55 +0100, MJ Ray escreveu: Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis: In Brasil, for instance, there is no such thing as charity organization. Then no groups would get special consideration from that clause of my suggestion. What's the problem? The problem is using country-specific definitions for a supra-national organization. The rules applied by Debian to DUS should apply to any other organization in the world. Charity is not country-specific. At the very least, Japan (according to JACO) and Canada (CharityVillage) also have charities with similar conditions of openness to the UK. DUS is not registered as a charity, so just like organisations in a country with no charity concept, it could use one of the other ways I mentioned. Same rules should apply to all. Agreed? -- MJR/slef -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian UK (was Re: What the DFSG really says about trademarks)
MJ Ray wrote: Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis: Em Seg, 2005-09-05 =E0s 12:55 +0100, MJ Ray escreveu: Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis: In Brasil, for instance, there is no such thing as charity organization. Then no groups would get special consideration from that clause of my suggestion. What's the problem? The problem is using country-specific definitions for a supra-national organization. The rules applied by Debian to DUS should apply to any other organization in the world. Charity is not country-specific. At the very least, Japan (according to JACO) and Canada (CharityVillage) also have charities with similar conditions of openness to the UK. DUS is not registered as a charity, so just like organisations in a country with no charity concept, it could use one of the other ways I mentioned. Same rules should apply to all. Agreed? I'm confused -- were we trying to throw a spanner in the works of the Debian UK society here, or trying to define a worthwhile trademark policy? I don't see that migrating a thread that started out as the former is likely to yield a useful version of the latter. Can we start again please? Cheers, Phil. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian UK (was Re: What the DFSG really says about trademarks)
Em Seg, 2005-09-05 às 21:31 +0100, MJ Ray escreveu: Charity is not country-specific. At the very least, Japan (according to JACO) and Canada (CharityVillage) also have charities with similar conditions of openness to the UK. Well... That's not true for Brasil, and may be the case for other countries too. DUS is not registered as a charity, so just like organisations in a country with no charity concept, it could use one of the other ways I mentioned. So, are we going to stablish the criterias for organizations to have the right of using the Debian name? Like a type of fair-use? It can be a good idea... something like... Organizations that follows x,y,z will have an automatic license of using the Debian trademark... ... but ... I'm just remembering that if we say charity, we'll have to say... * In UK, charity organizations * In Brasil, Civil Organizations for the Public Interest and so on... And this could be a bigger problem for informal organizations, like user groups around the world... ... so ... Couldn't we just avoid the problem by acting reactivelly? I mean, do you really think that DUS is not a fair-use of the Debian trademark? Do you realize that it will impact all user groups around which uses the Debian name? Same rules should apply to all. Agreed? Yes! That's all I'm saying, and that's what worries me. daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian UK (was Re: What the DFSG really says about trademarks)
Daniel Ruoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] skribis: So, are we going to stablish the criterias for organizations to have the right of using the Debian name? Like a type of fair-use? Not me in the forseeable. spi-trademark would be the next step, but it was just my opinion on a question you asked. [...] ... so ... Couldn't we just avoid the problem by acting reactivelly? I mean, do you really think that DUS is not a fair-use of the Debian trademark? No, it's a business trading as debian, sprung on its members as a done deal. As Phil Hands posted about DCC, it seems either malicious or stupid and either way I don't see how we can trust them to be issuing statements which will be perceived by the world to have come from the project. Do you realize that it will impact all user groups around which uses the Debian name? Ones who are pure user groups and don't trade shouldn't be changed. Ones who are trading on the name may need to act, but they're in a grey area at the minute if they don't have permission, so won't be worse off either. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian UK
On Mon, Sep 05, 2005 at 01:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Daniel writes: A not-for-profit organization (at least in Brasil) don't share the profits among the share-holders, I mean, don't pay dividends. That's true of a not-for-profit (sometimes called nonprofit) corporation in the US. Note, however, that not-for-profit is not the same as charitable. FWIW, the terms non-profit and not-for-profit have distinct meanings in common US usage; non-profit normally refers to a 501(c)(3) corporation, whereas not-for-profit implies no such formal status. You probably can't generalize about the organization of all US groups that claim to be not-for-profit. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
