Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
Scripsit Kevin Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 09:39:15PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote: A translator whose general modus operandi is leave his translation unmaintained once it is written should not become a voting member of Debian anyway - not any more than a packager who leaves his package unmaintained once it is uploaded. so if a translator will commit to 'maintaing' a particular package translation, would that be a demonstration of the same commitment to the 'project' like software package maintaing and could then lead to him/her being a DD? I don't see why it shouldn't be sufficient for the has already done good work for Debian part of the existing process. Whether it demonstrates overall commitment would need to be judged by the AM. For example, translating the 4 strings in some obscure and close-lipped tool would probably not in itself be evidence of great commitment, but taking care of the translation of packages with hundreds of strings would. There is no direct parallel to this question for packagers, because having a package survive the NEW queue already only happens if the package is not completely trivial. On the other hand, a package with 4 translateable strings might well welcome translations, even though each translation itself is trivial. -- Henning Makholm We will discuss your youth another time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
quote who=Manoj Srivastava date=Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 03:07:41PM -0500 (1) We as a project (and an NM project) are hesitant to give these people developership since it means they can upload to the project which introduces a set of potential risks and problems (one more account to compromise, etc). I'm sorry. If we can't trust these people not to abuse upload privileges, then I certainly do not want to see them get a say in deciding how we conduct the project's business. Eiether we trust them, in which case we should induct them in as full members, or we don't, and in that case they do not get to vote. I agree completely. I said, one more account to compromise to highlight the fact that an elevated risk is not necessary connected to a lack of trustworthiness in the person. Why have 2,000 possible upload keys when only 1,000 people intend to ever use theirs -- even if we can trust the people who we have accepted to not abuse their privilege? Regards, Mako -- Benjamin Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mako.cc/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
quote who=Manoj Srivastava date=Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 09:43:52AM -0500 I'd like to see those who have made long-term, sustained, and significant contributions to Debian enfranchised. That could mean broadening the category of developer through changes to NM or it could also mean another enfranchised category of contributor. That's what I read as the argument at the core of this thread -- but perhaps I was just projecting. I think we need to make them full, undifferentiated, members of the project. Which means going through a process where we know they adhere to our foundation documents, and spend time with a trusted developer (AM) so we have a better idea of who they are, and can have a modicum of trust in that they do not sabotage the project. I agree completely. My only criticism has been with limiting or putting up roadblocks to full undifferentiated membership for people making certain type of contributions. I'm not suggesting a lower bar for PP, trust, identity, etc. Regards, Mako -- Benjamin Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mako.cc/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
quote who=Don Armstrong date=Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 01:50:50PM -0700 As a final note, the templates are just that, templates. An AM is relatively free to tailor the process to the job that the applicant is actually performing. This is a bit more time consuming for the AM, but it's ideal for applicants who are involved in non-traditional roles in Debian. AMs, the DAM and other people in the project are more hesitant to grant developership to people with non-standard forms of contributions. Sometimes, it's simply harder to test for these because there aren't templates or even qualified AMs! Documentation is relatively common. i18n is a little trickier. I asked around about developership for Debian's lawyer and was told by everyone that it seemed problematic. Don: You were extremely active in Debian-Legal before becoming a developer. Were you tested or evaluated on those contributions? If not, why not? Regards, Mako -- Benjamin Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mako.cc/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
quote who=Erinn Clark date=Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:55:09PM -0400 * Benj. Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006:04:06 15:35 -0400]: quote who=Henning Makholm date=Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 02:32:26PM +0200 Scripsit Benj. Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think that the fact that the upload keyring is the same as the voting keyring is bad. Contributors are told they can't vote until they learn C compiler flags. Who tells contributors that nonsense? Have you read the NM process templates lately? They are what almost every contributor looking for enfranchisement sees. Do you mean this question? (Actually about ld, but it's the closest one I found that seemed appropriately irrelevant.) I3. What is the -Bsymbolic ld flag, exactly what does it do, and how that differs from library symbol versioning? What problems do -Bsymbolic linking solve? Why is libc6 not compiled with -Bsymbolic? Yes. But it was just an example. I could not correctly answer that question. Regards, Mako -- Benjamin Mako Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mako.cc/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] you're free to submit patches. Until then, I'd prefer if you would not reply in a purely polemic way, as your contribution to actually solve the problem isn't identifiable. Remember, you're the idiot who started the polemic ... bullshit. If they would really care ... lunacy that I was mimicking. That is unacceptable behaviour and I ask you to correct it. I really don't think that *you* are in a position to ask other people to correct their behaviour. [...] Naturally, those docs are mainly speaking about the NM process as applicant doing packaging work. The reason for this is quite simple - more than 95% of the people expressing their wish to join do packaging work. Where do you get that 95% statistic from? That one's easy. I'm FD and know how many translators have spoken about becoming a developer in relevant places - either by actually applying, mailing the FD or speaking about it on the respective mailing lists. The number is quite small (about 4 people, depending what you count as interest in an account), while we had more than 134 people who applied in the last year in total, with *no* translator or documentation NMs under them. If so, that alone should ring the alarm bells, as packaging alone doesn't seem like 95% of the work that we're struggling to get done. I don't know, but I know that a lot of work done for website maintainance, translation management and documentation is done by people who are also package maintainers. People doing non-packaging exclusively are quite unusual. Marc -- BOFH #169: broadcast packets on wrong frequency pgpEQvi3Yjjyz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Unidentified subject!
Здравствуйте, debian-project.
Good afternoon! Prompt where it is possible to find diff.gz for assembly gcc
4.0.1, glibc 2.3.5, MySQL 5.0.12? There Is such resource where are stored{kept}
all diff.gz for all versions of source codes?
--
С уважением,
krot mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Unidentified subject!
Hi!
* krot [EMAIL PROTECTED] [060408 20:25]:
Good afternoon! Prompt where it is possible to find diff.gz for
assembly gcc 4.0.1, glibc 2.3.5, MySQL 5.0.12? There Is such resource
where are stored{kept} all diff.gz for all versions of source codes?
Please stop asking the same question again and again on different lists,
especially if it allready has been answered:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/04/msg00140.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/04/msg00134.html
Yours sincerely,
Alexander
--
http://learn.to/quote/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
On Sat, 08 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: quote who=Don Armstrong date=Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 01:50:50PM -0700 As a final note, the templates are just that, templates. An AM is relatively free to tailor the process to the job that the applicant is actually performing. This is a bit more time consuming for the AM, but it's ideal for applicants who are involved in non-traditional roles in Debian. AMs, the DAM and other people in the project are more hesitant to grant developership to people with non-standard forms of contributions. Sometimes, it's simply harder to test for these because there aren't templates or even qualified AMs! Sure; it's basically a case of no one having yet figured out exactly how to do it. I don't think there's any way to make that easier until we have more people who fit into those positions wanting to become DDs. Presumably some of the more senior AMs will have a better idea of how to make sure that these people are qualified to fulfill the position that they want to fulfill. The first few applicants going through the process in a new role will always take a bit longer, but they'll be helping develop the process too, so I'd hope that they'd be reasonably accepting of that. Don: You were extremely active in Debian-Legal before becoming a developer. Were you tested or evaluated on those contributions? If not, why not? Not to any great extent, no. I was doing package maintenance then (and still am) so that's what I was tested on primarily. [I was asked to assist with a few DFSG/FOSS understanding issues, but I didn't think of that as part of the NM process.] Of course, since that was part of my contribution to Debian at that point in time, my AM and later the DAM (heh) would have looked at what I was doing there too. Don Armstrong -- THERE IS NO GRAVITY THE WORLD SUCKS -- Vietnam War Penquin Lighter http://gallery.donarmstrong.com/clippings/vietnam_there_is_no_gravity.jpg http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 01:02:48PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Kevin Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 09:39:15PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote: snip I don't see why it shouldn't be sufficient for the has already done good work for Debian part of the existing process. Whether it demonstrates overall commitment would need to be judged by the AM. For example, translating the 4 strings in some obscure and close-lipped tool would probably not in itself be evidence of great commitment, but taking care of the translation of packages with hundreds of strings would. Hi Henning, I just remembered something from our 'humanity-towards-others' upstream; they have language translation packs. If this were adopted, then translators could 'maintain a packages' and have their names on it and other signs of commitment. Cheers, Kev -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com | | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: pgp.mit.edu | my NPO: cfsg.org | signature.asc Description: Digital signature
