Re: What do Open Source Projects need?
* MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-06-06 09:36]: My question about unsubbing Christoph Berg from Planet Debian was more about: do we think it will recur and should we draw a line here? Given that this question comes from someone who has ben unsubscribed from planet before I consider this highly amusing... Thanks, Alfie -- Right. Besides, as the whole notion of free software has very little to do with the kernel, please just link to some open source site. One of the more neutral ones is http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html;, for example. -- Linus Torvalds [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Social committee proposal
On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Andreas Barth wrote: I think it would be better if the committee is re-elected from the developers at large - perhaps half of their size I see no chance to define half of their size precisely. It immediately opens a lot of question. One of these questions is Which half?. So either re-electing all or nobody is an option. every years for a two years time (and doing the elections at the same time as the DPL)? I think only voting in he same ballot will find wide acceptance amongst the DDs (provided that devotee is able to process to different ballots in one mail). BTW, I think the leader should not be a member of the soc-ctte. So in case a member of the soc-ctte is elected as leader somebody else has to step in. For simplification of voting process I think the next highest ranked for the soc-ctte should become a member instead somebody who won the leader election. While I'm not convinced that the soc-ctte has really to be reelected on a regular basis (read: I'm undecided between Ian's and Josip's proposal concerning this point) we would have to find a method to substitute a soc-ctte member that might have become leader in any other way if we do no regular elections. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian release cycle for enterprise ?
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 09:41:09AM +0200, Fr?d?ric PICA wrote: How much easy is a distribution upgrade under debian ? Quite easy. I'm looking for experienced users, having debian in a production environnement with 24H/24H 7d/7d requirements. Running a 24/7 shop without the possibility to take boxes out of service (failover, redundant, cluster stuff) is asking for trouble anyway. Does apt-get dist-upgrade works really well ? Very well, if you upgrade in a prepared way (i.e. have read the release notes and have done some tests). I have never needed the backup I make before upgrading. Greetings Marc -- - Marc Haber | I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | lose things.Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Le jeudi 07 juin 2007 à 14:47 +0200, Patrick Frank a écrit : And thats why the clear words in direction of Sam Hocevar, who did parts of his electoral campaign on costs of Sven Luther. And no, Kalle Kivimaa, I dont need proof in form of a web cache that shows the old content of sam2007.zoy.org to be able to say that. You certainly don't need anything to be able to say that, but repeating a lie does only make it true in your own mind. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile.
Debian release cycle for enterprise ?
Greets, This the follow up of the same thread in debian-release : http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2007/06/msg00039.html To follow Steve Lamgasek, yes a two year release cycle could be dauting, especially with many different servers. The best will be to have a longer security support to be able to have the time to switch the servers with all the needed tests. How much easy is a distribution upgrade under debian ? I'm looking for experienced users, having debian in a production environnement with 24H/24H 7d/7d requirements. Does apt-get dist-upgrade works really well ? Thanks, FP
Re: Debian release cycle for enterprise ?
Frédéric PICA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much easy is a distribution upgrade under debian ? I'm looking for experienced users, having debian in a production environnement with 24H/24H 7d/7d requirements. Does apt-get dist-upgrade works really well ? If you have read the release notes (which recommend using aptitude for the dist-upgrade AFAIR) and do the recommended steps described there, it works without any glitches in most cases. The small proportion of problematic ones with some glitches tend to be desktop installs if I'm not mistaken. The real problem in a production environment is checking your conffiles, verifying that everything still works etc. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)
Re: What do Open Source Projects need?
Gerfried Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-06-06 09:36]: My question about unsubbing Christoph Berg from Planet Debian was more about: do we think it will recur and should we draw a line here? Given that this question comes from someone who has ben unsubscribed from planet before I consider this highly amusing... At least I contacted Christoph Berg first and sounded out others about the general principle. It's funny in another sense that the consensus seems to be: * publicly post bad medical advice to one DD = no action; * flooding with old entries = no action; * post non-English entries = warning or unsub, depending on language; * post about a major European entertainment = immediate unsub! Regards, -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Social committee proposal
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Andreas Barth wrote: I don't get the problem. We have two sets of people there in: - people elected in even years - people elected in uneven years Well, I don't think it is the best idea to discuss those issues via mail. I just hope that many people will join https://penta.debconf.org/~joerg/events/93.en.html which I registered for an open discussion about this topic. BTW, I would be happy if some interested people would join before ths panel discussion to prepare this discussion. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Social committee proposal
* Andreas Tille ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070608 13:08]: On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Andreas Barth wrote: I don't get the problem. We have two sets of people there in: - people elected in even years - people elected in uneven years Well, I don't think it is the best idea to discuss those issues via mail. I just hope that many people will join https://penta.debconf.org/~joerg/events/93.en.html which I registered for an open discussion about this topic. Eh, why don't do it in the discussion about Debian governance? Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
-- Forwarded message -- From: Patrick Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Jun 8, 2007 1:26 PM Subject: Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3 To: Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 6/8/07, Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And no, Kalle Kivimaa, I dont need proof in form of a web cache that shows the old content of sam2007.zoy.org to be able to say that. You certainly don't need anything to be able to say that, but repeating a lie does only make it true in your own mind. OFTC, channel #debian.de: Feb 06 13:24:41 Zugschlus Hm. Svenl kandiert als DPL? Feb 06 13:26:46 GyrosGeier ja Feb 06 13:26:59 GyrosGeier und die Schlammschlacht ist bereits eröffnet Feb 06 13:36:23 Tolimar GyrosGeier: Oh? Wo denn? Feb 06 13:36:31 Tolimar Damit ich weiss, wo ich nicht hinkucken will ;) Feb 06 13:39:38 GyrosGeier Tolimar, http://sam2007.zoy.org/ Feb 06 13:39:51 GyrosGeier Tolimar, ich habe so ein Gefühl, daß Sven darauf reagiert Feb 06 13:40:48 Tolimar Hihi. Feb 06 13:40:54 Tolimar Noch ist es lustig :) Feb 06 13:41:06 GyrosGeier ja Feb 06 13:41:23 GyrosGeier ich weiß nur noch nicht, wo ich die Teletubbies in das Bild montiere Feb 06 13:42:11 abi erst wenn die mail von svenl nach -private kommt dass doch der dpl bitte sam auf allen listen sperren möge wirds *doppelt* lustig :) Feb 06 13:42:26 Myon svenl kandidiert? omg Feb 06 13:42:43 Myon das könnte mich doch glatt zu einer Mail an da-manager motivieren Feb 06 13:47:18 aba *aua* Feb 06 13:47:31 aba das von sam ist mal wieder voll daneben Feb 06 13:49:31 HAL9001 GyrosGeier, hast du die seite gemacht? Feb 06 14:16:27 GyrosGeier HAL9001, nein, sam Dude. Now go and ask these involved people if they have a web cache that goes back till 6th of February. And if they do, then enlighten yourself. You guys are pathetic. You speak about missing proof, you speak about unsupported claims, and you call me a troll and a liar. To all people with a social conciousness outside of your gang this clearly shows why my complaints about unsocial behaviour, about defacements and discrimination is perfectly right and justified. If you pay your lack of social skills with the ability to write code, then you are no bad person just because of that. But please limit yourself on what you can do best. And stay away from community support. And stay away from responsibilities, positions and priviledges that generate harm for other people. -- greetings, Patrick Frank -- greetings, Patrick Frank
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On 6/8/07, Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you are a damn fucking troll and liar. Your accusations are not only full of lies You are a complete moron, and you don't code anything Is this the spirit of most debian developers? I can see clearly how it must be like for people who have to work with such sociopaths when it comes to complex technical topics and misunderstandings. -- greetings, Patrick Frank
Re: Social committee proposal
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007, Andreas Barth wrote: Eh, why don't do it in the discussion about Debian governance? You know the principle: we need Gnome AND KDE, Emacs AND Vim, ... ;-) Or rather: It was kind of hard to find out which events were submitted when there was time for submissions. So well, I think we should make the best of it and should focus on the event which is first in time (damn, you beat me ;-) according to https://penta.debconf.org/~joerg/events/59.en.html ). Then lets see whether we were able to solve all our problems in this event. If so we should just party on the second - if not we might perhaps use this slot to discuss new knowledge that we might have gained at DebConf. I'm happy that I was not the only one who tried to apply for such a session which is IMHO quite important. See you in Edinburgh Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fwd: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007, MJ Ray wrote: Rough translation follows. Anyone willing to authenticate? Feb 06 13:47:31 aba That from sam is timely To be fair, voll daneben is closer here to off the mark. -- Sam. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On 6/8/07, MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: stop republishing private email. You are cute. really. Just a few mails ago you claim I am riding a hobby horse throught mailing lists. You mentioned the gNewSense mailing list here. Point of that call for debate was privacy. The head of Freenode Staff gave my phone number, taken from my nickserv record to an offender. And guess what the feedback was? Privacy on the Internet does not exist You have been warned, so I think you're trying to get a ban now. First I have been warned that I will get banned if I quote statements from E-Mails outside of this list. Then list masters realized that it is not their job to take action against me on call of people who have hurt feelings. But lets focus on facts: I was not revealing anything private that is worth to be protected when I quoted mails from outside of this list here. They were part of the mailing list threads. And there is no rule that I broke. If you want to hold up the Internet Netiquette against me, then I will be your happy guest to work through the lot of defacing and offensive feedback I got as reaction to my attempt to discuss a serious community problem. -- greetings, Patrick Frank
Re: Patrick Frank, again
On 6/8/07, Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello dear listmasters, What would you do if the list masters would suggest you to see a psychologist as reaction to your second call for hate campaign? -- greetings, Patrick Frank
Re: Fwd: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Rough translation follows. Anyone willing to authenticate? Patrick Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OFTC, channel #debian.de: Feb 06 13:24:41 Zugschlus Hm. Svenl stands for DPL? Feb 06 13:26:46 GyrosGeier Yes Feb 06 13:26:59 GyrosGeier and the mudslinging is ready to start Feb 06 13:36:23 Tolimar GyrosGeier: Oh? Where then? Feb 06 13:36:31 Tolimar Then I know, where I don't want to go Feb 06 13:39:38 GyrosGeier Tolimar, http://sam2007.zoy.org/ Feb 06 13:39:51 GyrosGeier Tolimar, I have a feeling that Sven reacts to it Feb 06 13:40:48 Tolimar Hehe. Feb 06 13:40:54 Tolimar After all, it's nice :) Feb 06 13:41:06 GyrosGeier Yes Feb 06 13:41:23 GyrosGeier I don't know yet where I'll put the Teletubbies in the picture. Feb 06 13:42:11 abi First when the mail from svenl to -private comes, asking the DPL to please block sam from all lists will it be *doubly* nice :) Feb 06 13:42:26 Myon svenl stands? omg Feb 06 13:42:43 Myon That can so motivate me to send a mail to da-manager Feb 06 13:47:18 aba *owie* Feb 06 13:47:31 aba That from sam is timely Feb 06 13:49:31 HAL9001 GyrosGeier, have you made the page? Feb 06 14:16:27 GyrosGeier HAL9001, no, sam So how does that support Sam Hocevar, who did parts of his electoral campaign on costs of Sven Luther? Sam was elected on his platform http://www.debian.org/vote/2007/platforms/sho which is short on Sven Luther. The IRC log says something bad IMO about Myon, but I already didn't rate him. Dude. Now go and ask these involved people if they have a web cache that goes back till 6th of February. And if they do, then enlighten yourself. Anyone? [...] You speak about missing proof, you speak about unsupported claims, and you call me a troll and a liar. I call you a troll because of the missing proof and unsupported claims, but not necessarily a liar. I often look at each thread afresh - I didn't remember the other Paddy Frank troll-mails until they were pointed out to me, because my memory is pretty poor, but you've still alienated me. To all people with a social conciousness outside of your gang this clearly shows why my complaints about unsocial behaviour, about defacements and discrimination is perfectly right and justified. [...] I am concerned about the possible rise in anti-social behaviour, intolerance and discrimination, but this trolling does not help and you're flaming me on- and off-list anyway. Remember that many DDs are involved for selfish reasons - even me - and if you make discussions with you so little fun, you will get killfiled by almost all of them. Hope that explains, -- MJ Ray - see/vidu http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Experienced webmaster-developers for hire http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ Also: statistician, sysadmin, online shop builder, workers co-op. Writing on koha, debian, sat TV, Kewstoke http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On 6/8/07, Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay. Now be a good boy, go back to your cage and program. -- greetings, Patrick Frank
Re: Fwd: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007, Patrick Frank wrote: Feb 06 13:39:38 GyrosGeier Tolimar, http://sam2007.zoy.org/ Feb 06 13:39:51 GyrosGeier Tolimar, ich habe so ein Gefühl, daß Sven darauf reagiert Sven told me on February 25th in front of several other DDs that he was going to vote for me. Mein Gott, was für eine Reaktion! Hochachtungsvoll, -- Sam. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Paddy, *what* do you want? I'm missing any essense in your mails. Your responses to other people, however, clearly contain a certain troll level and more accusations that don't lead anywhere. (the accusations of the oters as well, fwiw). Regards, Joey PS: Could you stop sending HTML mail please? -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On 6/8/07, Joey Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you want me to cry now like some of your friends, because you reply to my private email on this list? :) The situation is that a few developers are trolling _me_ as reaction to my public opinion, and based on that given hostile climate I reply. All feedback is about trollish elements of postings and not about any of the points I make. This is the declaration of bankruptcy of a community. -- greetings, Patrick Frank P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better.
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 05:52:33PM +0200, Patrick Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/8/07, Joey Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you want me to cry now like some of your friends, because you reply to my private email on this list? :) I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be good... His message was In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], which is http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/06/msg00126.html Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Patrick Frank wrote: On 6/8/07, Joey Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you want me to cry now like some of your friends, because you reply to my private email on this list? :) I have no idea what you're smoking, but you should stop it. My mail contained only text written by myself. It is a reply to a mail you sent to the list. Even if it would have been a private mail I had replied to, it still wouldn't have contained anything private since the mail I wrote and sent to the list, is written entirely by me. The situation is that a few developers are trolling _me_ as reaction to my public opinion, and based on that given hostile climate I reply. I now have severe reason to believe that you're really only trolling. Instead of answering my question (maybe it was too general?!?) you started accusing me. Maybe it's the GMail frontend that got you confused again over which email was public and which was private. I don't know. I don't use GMail. However, even if, after the first incident with Raphael's mail, you should have taken extra care. Whatever, I guess the discussion is over. P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better. Oh, how nice. Now I know, that you're a real troll. *plonk* Regards, Joey -- Linux - the choice of a GNU generation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Le vendredi 08 juin 2007 à 17:52 +0200, Patrick Frank a écrit : P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better. (/me waits for Matt Zimmerman to show up magically) -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile.
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Hi, * Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-06-08 19:53]: Le vendredi 08 juin 2007 à 13:49 +0200, Patrick Frank a écrit : On 6/8/07, Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] You are absolutely incredible. Really. I don't know of anyone who can troll better than you. * First, you send a private email. Would it be possible to stop mention this in every mail, it was not inentionally and aifair he said sorry. Thanks Nico -- Nico Golde - http://ngolde.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted. pgpkkuVaToi4S.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
On Fri, Jun 08, 2007 at 08:17:27PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote: Hi, * Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-06-08 19:53]: Le vendredi 08 juin 2007 à 13:49 +0200, Patrick Frank a écrit : On 6/8/07, Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] You are absolutely incredible. Really. I don't know of anyone who can troll better than you. * First, you send a private email. Would it be possible to stop mention this in every mail, it was not inentionally and aifair he said sorry. No, because this was a repeat occurrence. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Patrick Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better. It's already been made clear to you that you're not welcome in the Ubuntu community. Please don't try to insinuate otherwise. -- Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
