The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
Hi -project, On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 06:33:49PM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote: You do understand that we have procedured at Debian to handle stuff like GR proposals, right? And that procedure involves posting to debian-vote, so doing that was the right thing to do. Whilst researching for a reply to a different post in this thread on -user (the thread sadly spans at least three lists), I realised that the constitution doesn't say where GRs should be announced, and I couldn't find any advice on the subject in a scan over policy, either. I think we should clearly indicate where GRs should be announced. (Should, I suppose I'm arguing, not must). In this particular case I saw the GR thread on -project, rather than -vote, iirc. Unless I'm mistaken, a change to Constitution (to include a reference to where GRs should be posted) would need to be achieved via GR. Alternatively, we could document it as a should in policy, although there may not yet be an appropriate section to do so. Does anyone have strong feelings on this? -- Jonathan Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141013183043.ga29...@chew.redmars.org
Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
Hi, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org writes: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 06:33:49PM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote: You do understand that we have procedured at Debian to handle stuff like GR proposals, right? And that procedure involves posting to debian-vote, so doing that was the right thing to do. Whilst researching for a reply to a different post in this thread on -user (the thread sadly spans at least three lists), I realised that the constitution doesn't say where GRs should be announced, and I couldn't find any advice on the subject in a scan over policy, either. I think we should clearly indicate where GRs should be announced. (Should, I suppose I'm arguing, not must). It's documented on vote.debian.org[1]. [1] https://www.debian.org/vote/howto_proposal Unless I'm mistaken, a change to Constitution (to include a reference to where GRs should be posted) would need to be achieved via GR. Alternatively, we could document it as a should in policy, although there may not yet be an appropriate section to do so. Does anyone have strong feelings on this? I think both would be the wrong place: having technical details (such as mailing list names) in the Constitution makes it hard to change them. And Policy documents packaging standards for the distribution, not procedural details for the project. Ansgar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87vbnnn7hk@deep-thought.43-1.org
Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:30:43PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: I think we should clearly indicate where GRs should be announced. (Should, I suppose I'm arguing, not must). I think we don't need to name the place in the constitution. I don't think we need a hard rule about where the announcement happens. I do, however, think it would be good to announce all proposed GRs on debian-devel-announce and debian-vote, with Reply-To to debian-vote. This would ensure all DDs hear about every proposed GR. There's not enough of them to cause a lot of d-d-a traffic. If the proposer of a GR forgets to do that, the secretary or some other DD could do it for them. -- http://gtdfh.branchable.com/ -- GTD for hackers http://obnam.org/ -- HAVE YOU BACKED UP TODAY? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141013193235.gf21...@exolobe1.liw.fi
Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:30:43PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Whilst researching for a reply to a different post in this thread on -user (the thread sadly spans at least three lists), I realised that the constitution doesn't say where GRs should be announced, and I couldn't find any advice on the subject in a scan over policy, either. FWIW, Constitution §4.2.5 says: 5. Proposals, sponsors, amendments, calls for votes and other formal actions are made by announcement on a publicly-readable electronic mailing list designated by the Project Leader's Delegate(s); any Developer may post there. Cheers, -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Former Debian Project Leader . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club » signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:30:43PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Whilst researching for a reply to a different post in this thread on -user (the thread sadly spans at least three lists), I realised that the constitution doesn't say where GRs should be announced, and I couldn't find any advice on the subject in a scan over policy, either. FWIW, Constitution §4.2.5 says: 5. Proposals, sponsors, amendments, calls for votes and other formal actions are made by announcement on a publicly-readable electronic mailing list designated by the Project Leader's Delegate(s); any Developer may post there. Cheers, Ahhh... this is like RFPs and legal announcements - as long as you post it somewhere, you're covered. As opposed to requiring posting in a highly visible place. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/543c320c.2020...@meetinghouse.net
Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
Le lundi, 13 octobre 2014, 16.11:56 Miles Fidelman a écrit : Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: FWIW, Constitution §4.2.5 says: (…) Ahhh... this is like RFPs and legal announcements - as long as you post it somewhere, you're covered. As opposed to requiring posting in a highly visible place. Wrong. That's detailed there: https://www.debian.org/vote/howto_proposal Which says: The following procedures have been instituted regarding general resolution proposals and sponsoring. The electronic mailing list designated is debian- v...@lists.debian.org. This is the authoritative source of the full text of all resolutions, as well as the supporting arguments and other material. Proposals, or sponsorship motions shall not be recognized if sent to any other mailing list. The page is easy to find from debian.org = Developers'Corner = Voting information = How To Submit a Proposal. I don't think we have a documentation problem here. Cheers, OdyX -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2644371.u0TgOhpbrd@gyllingar
Re: The proper place to announce GRs (was Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?))
On 2014-10-13 21:11, Miles Fidelman wrote: Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:30:43PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Whilst researching for a reply to a different post in this thread on -user (the thread sadly spans at least three lists), I realised that the constitution doesn't say where GRs should be announced, and I couldn't find any advice on the subject in a scan over policy, either. FWIW, Constitution §4.2.5 says: 5. Proposals, sponsors, amendments, calls for votes and other formal actions are made by announcement on a publicly-readable electronic mailing list designated by the Project Leader's Delegate(s); any Developer may post there. Cheers, Ahhh... this is like RFPs and legal announcements - as long as you post it somewhere, you're covered. As opposed to requiring posting in a highly visible place. No, that's entirely appropriate language for the constitution, which is *very* difficult and time-consuming to change. It's up to the Leader's Delegate to have a policy about how and where GRs are announced, and that policy is very clearly stated at https://www.debian.org/vote/howto_proposal. (Even if the constitution were easy and quick to change, that wouldn't mean it should be done trivially or lightly, of course.) -- Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw 4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51 directhex i have six years of solaris sysadmin experience, from 8-10. i am well qualified to say it is made from bonghits layered on top of bonghits -- Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw 4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51 directhex i have six years of solaris sysadmin experience, from 8-10. i am well qualified to say it is made from bonghits layered on top of bonghits -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d085787e369dc7ff87adfcfca06d0...@hogwarts.powdarrmonkey.net
