Re: If Debian support OS certification?
Hello, We developed a very detailed sequence of compatibility and disk and storage stress tests , including nfsv4, to homologate disk and storage systems for government profile and scale IMAP loads on Debian systems. Fio tests carefully modeled Cyrus IMAP real world behaviour at such scale, confirmed at cyrus project list. Maybe one can find useful to ADAPT such tests as part of Debian certification. Almost all commands depends on available RAM and CPU count, bandwidth, etc. The test procedures were for stress storage systems not for Debian itself. You could download PDF linked at page at https://comunidadeexpresso.serpro.gov.br/mediawiki/index.php/Infra/DataStorageServers Despite written in brazilian portuguese, the command lines listed are easily readable. Regards. Andre Felipe
Report from Med@Tel / spreading the word about Debian
Hello, The Debian Project, as a whole and generally speaking, is still having difficulties to spread the word about the good work done here. The Publicity Team should be informed by the other Teams, for example. The Project is too big to the small team know all things happening. The publicity team welcomes more skilled man power. Sometime ago, new skilled non-techies became interested in it and started collaborating and improved the efforts. The debian-publicity list is the focal point of contact to the publicity, marketing and partner efforts. DPN is a first rate one for us, imho. We should have more press contacts to bring DPN to press attention around the world. And use the other channels, like social media, events and web casts too. You could remember that advertising things evolved for Debian last 2 years (hey, we have a new site layout! and a coordinated desktop theme!), but we are still too shy to tell about the good work done. While other distros excell at that... Debian Project is more than a tech super-market buried at the 10th level basement for others polish and sell at the mall. Debian Project is like a multi-front tech effort, stretching limits of collective useful work and something a working umbrella for more sub projects, while delivering a flagship product. Should we identify ourselves as foundation like as Apache (for example)? Should we enhance visibility of the sub-projects (debian-desktop needs you) and Pure Blends? Should we tell more about CUT and the Security Team and Release Team process improvements that could allow 5 year stable support? Should not we be proud of doing the things right way instead of share-holders-first way? Regards. Andre Felipe
Re: Ciclo de Vida - Debian
Olá, Thiago O idioma desta lista administrativa do Projeto Debian é inglês, para poderes obter as melhores respostas. Acredito que você possa encontrar as respostas desejadas nas seguintes páginas e seus links: [0] [1]http://www.debian.org/releases/ [1] [2]http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives [2] [3]http://www.debian.org/security/faq Boa sorte. André Felipe
Re: Talk at openSUSE conference - input needed
Hello, At mid-July 2009 a long (and heated, until August) discussion thread started at debian-project list regarding release dates, freeze dates, cadence and collaboration between Debian and Ubuntu. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2009/07/threads.html Mr. Shuttleworth suggested modifying Debian dates in order to sync with Ubuntu LTS. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2009/08/msg00092.html The long discussion resulted in a suggestion of feasible collaboration approach from Debian http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2009/08/msg00273.html And then Ubuntu / Canonical started a task https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-release-collaboration-with-debian that had achieved some advancements in coordination with Debian: Whiteboard Work items: kernel: DONE [vorlon]python: DONE [vorlon]gcc: DONE perl: DONE openoffice: DONE [kitterman]boost: DONE Work items for ubuntu-10.04-beta-1: [bryceharrington] X: DONE Work items for ubuntu-10.04-beta-2: [doko] java: DONE Status: Kernel=2.6.32, GCC=4.4, Python=2.6, OOo=3.2, Perl=5.10.1, Boost=1.40 (with the freeze delay, Debian looks like it#8217;s going to 1.42, but it#8217;s probably not worth the pain of us doing another transition for Lucid), Mesa=7.7, xserver=1.7, Java (IcedTea)=1.8 And Debian Project launched a new front desk: http://www.debian.org/News/2010/20100629 Do we have a new status update at these efforts? I hope these first efforts, that are being observed by other teams at both sides, could result valuable enough to motivate other teams to participate, at BOTH sides. Maybe, OpenSuse community could join these same-upstream-version efforts. At a win-win agreement, all involved benefit from. Good luck for all. Andre Felipe Machado
Debian nao vende AutoCad / Debian does not sell AutoCad
Olá, Fabinei O Projeto Debian não vende licenças de AutoCad. Permite o download livre e gratuito de sistema operacionais completos Linux, incluindo muitos aplicativos de escritório, corporativos, engenharia, médicos, científicos, educacionais. São mais de 25 mil programas legalmente distribuidos. Saiba mais navegando pelo site http://www.debian.org Você pode enviar perguntas em português para a lista http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-portuguese/ , que apesar do nome congrega usuários de idioma português do mundo todo, não só brasileiros. Boa sorte. André Felipe Hello Fabinei The Debian Project does not sell AutoCad licenses. It freely allows the download of complete Linux operational systems, including many office applications, corporate, engineering, medical, scientific, educational. There are more than 25 thousand programs distributed. You may know more browsing the site http://www.debian.org You may ask questions in portuguese at the list http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-portuguese/ , despite its name congregates users of portuguese language around the world, not only brazilians. Good luck. Andre Felipe PS: Actually, Debian Project has GNU/Linux, GNU/Hurd, GNU/kFreeBSD, GNU/NetBSD, but such info could confuse the newcomer at this point.
Re: debian- but which should I choose?
Hello, Martin You could obtain better answers at http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ but I will try to help with some hints. At user lists there are more people involved with day to day hw and sw issues. Further technical questions should be done there. Guessing that a suitable architecture is i386. Also, assuming that is a desktop, you could choose Gnome, Kde, Xfce, Lxde graphical environments prepared CDs. The default is Gnome, and other option is Kde; both full-blown desktops, but they could be too heavy for your hardware. Xfce and Lxde are lightweight desktop environments that may also meet your needs. Take a look at feature lists and screenshots at these sites to decide yourself http://www.gnome.org http://www.kde.org http://www.xfce.org http://www.lxde.org There are even some prepared live CD images for them all that you could try yourself before actually installing: http://live.debian.net/ Regards. Andre Felipe
Re: squeeze release cycle?
Hello, There is still a staged proposal that could benefit BOTH entities that still remains unanswered by Canonical: http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2009/08/msg00273.html Regards. Andre Felipe Machado http://www.techforce.com.br
Re: IPv6 troubleshooting help needed
Hello, That is it! Thanks a lot! I disabled the dns relay function at the Dlink DSL-2640T and now my home Debian machine can update using security.debian.org and volatile.debian.org that changed to ipv6 addresses some days ago. I will submit a bug report to Dlink site. But what still really worries me is how to exactly track, prove and demonstrate, that the problem at company is some kind of error at dns caching. As a country wide, servicing multiple agencies, I guess it is using some high end network hardware and some kind of software and security infrastructure. I *must* have 100% demonstrable, 100% sure, log and or report to submit a ticket to their net/security teams. What commands could prove and register the dns caching problem at their network? Also, it have layers of ips, ids, routers, swithches, firewalls, etc, and something in that setup could also be causing the problem. Suggestions? Regards. Andre Felipe Luca Bruno wrote .. Andre Felipe Machado scrisse: Hello, Stephen At the end of email, you could find the command output. That is an ipv4 connections not going well, isn't it? Why are you talking about ipv6? It may be useful to add some information. Yesterday I tried update at another location, with other adsl modem (an old USR 9001), but at same adsl isp (www.gvt.com.br). It was successful. My home adsl connection to the same isp is made using a new Dlink DSL-2640T adsl modem router wifi, that may affect the ipv6 connection. Out of the mind, you could be experiencing something similar to http://blog.bofh.it/id_202 (which, if you can't read Italian, is basically your modem doing DNS-caching badly) which already happened on some other Dlink modems. Can you please check to which IP are your packets trying to go? (eg. via dig, ping and traceroute). Ciao, Luca -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Luca Bruno (kaeso) : :' : The Universal O.S.| lucab (AT) debian.org `. `'`| GPG Key ID: 3BFB9FB3 `- http://www.debian.org| Debian GNU/Linux Developer
Re: Crear Distribuicion basada en DEBIAN
Hello, Gilson Thanks for your message. This is only a first clarification. You should also contact debian-legal list [0] asking for correct info. I watched your videos and I will point about some issues regarding your new distro that you should search for more details to avoid legal troubles. 1- Intelectual property registration (patents), copyright, rebranding. 2- FOSS licences and relicensing. 3- Selling FOSS software or selling services. 4- Proprietary, troubled software, licenses and redistribution. 1.1 You should contact your patents and branding lawyer to ask for legal guidance. This message is only informational to bring some subjects to your attention and not, by any means, legal advice. IP is not a legal term. It is a broad marketing buzz umbrella mixing/confusing various legal concepts. Software patents are not recognized in Brasil nor most of countries. Brasil law does not recognize patents over methods and algorithms. Copyright is recognized. Branding registration is, too. AFAIK, you _may_ rebrand *PURE* FOSS sw [1] [2] contained in *main section* of Debian repository, AS FAR YOU RESPECT EACH SW LICENSE (some licenses PROHIBIT rebranding under some circunstances or modifications using the same brand as the one used by Mozilla Firefox). 2.1 Most, but not all, FOSS licenses [3] does NOT allow relicensing. You MUST distribute a given sw under the SAME license. And it may prohibit rebranding, reselling, relicensing, etc. Evaluate case by case. But, for start, the main section is a safe place. 3.1 AFAIK, you could not sell FOSS sw, as their license explain. You could sell services, convenience, related material. Boxed CD, DVD, manuals, documentation, high speed downloads, compiled binaries, tech support, etc. And the source code should be available to all customers in some way. You could provide the source only to the customers, and under request, even at a nominal fee for media, but at least they MUST have the choice to get the source. Evaluate the Canonical and Red Hat examples. Red Hat offers compiled binaries only to their customers. And does not allow others to use their brand (see the CentOS reasoning). They sell boxed cd, dvd, download, tech support. Source code is available. Canonical takes snapshots of some sw at Debian unstable main repository each 6 months, put efforts to clean enough bugs to its purposes, add some proprietary sw and some branded sw at boxed and contracted versions (not at the freely available), and rebrand the distro and sell support services. Study and collect correct up to date details at their respective sites. 4.1 By the videos, you may be using some proprietary sw, or some legaly troubled sw. You may be using some codecs, drivers, advanced window manager, and Skype and VmWare sw. Most proprietary sw does not allow redistribution without a signed agreement. Most proprietary sw does not allow rebranding and, even less, relicensing. Some mathematical concepts and algorithms are patented in some countries (codecs, file formats...) and you could not redistribute freely at whole world even clean room new implementations using such algorithms or file formats. Only to countries not patenting sw methods. It seems that you use the beautiful but unfortunate Advanced Window Manager, that seemed like the Mac interface. Apple pursuited its patents and such sw was removed from most distro repositories. Good luck. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/ [1] http://www.debian.org/intro/free [2] http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines [3] http://www.opensource.org/licenses
Re: IPv6 troubleshooting help needed
Hello, Luca Thanks for the hints! I will move this discussion to debian-users list at next msg, as it may be useful for others too. The Dlink DSL-2640T have firmware V3.02B01T01.TF-A.20060804 It seems that there is not a newer firmware version at their brazilian site. I will compare dig outputs tomorrow and start to trace there. Regards. Andre Felipe
Re: Crear Distribuicion basada en DEBIAN
Hello, Gilson My misktake about Avant Window Navigator. It is still at repositories. Regards. Andre Felipe [0] http://packages.debian.org/lenny/avant-window-navigator
Re: IPv6 troubleshooting help needed
Hello, Stephen At the end of email, you could find the command output. It may be useful to add some information. Yesterday I tried update at another location, with other adsl modem (an old USR 9001), but at same adsl isp (www.gvt.com.br). It was successful. My home adsl connection to the same isp is made using a new Dlink DSL-2640T adsl modem router wifi, that may affect the ipv6 connection. At my personal server located in a data center in USA, all updates went smoothly. At work (sorry, mtr report only next tuesday), we have layers of routers, switches, balancers, proxies, firewalls, ids, ips, etc. So, there may be filters acting. This security update is what really worries me, as it is a debian partner. Is it possible to reverse the servers configuration until all factors are known, using another less critical site/repo? Is it better to open a bug report about the pseudo-package security.debian.org regarding this behaviour? Regards. Andre Felipe andremach...@debian:~/temp$ mtr --report --report-cycles 2 security.debian.org HOST: debian Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. mygateway1.ar70.0% 20.6 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.0 2. 189.27.208.1.dynamic.adsl.gv 0.0% 25.4 5.8 5.4 6.1 0.5 3. gvt 0.0% 25.8 5.9 5.8 6.0 0.1 4. gvt 0.0% 26.4 6.5 6.4 6.5 0.0 5. gvt 0.0% 26.4 6.4 6.4 6.5 0.1 6. gvt 0.0% 2 20.5 20.6 20.5 20.8 0.2 7. gvt 0.0% 2 20.7 20.7 20.7 20.7 0.0 8. Ge4 0.0% 2 20.5 20.8 20.5 21.0 0.3 9. So6 0.0% 2 138.0 135.1 132.3 138.0 4.1 10. So6 0.0% 2 137.8 150.7 137.8 163.6 18.3 11. Xe4-0-0-0-grtpartv1.red.tele 0.0% 2 171.4 204.8 171.4 238.2 47.3 12. So3 0.0% 2 242.6 242.7 242.6 242.7 0.1 13. ??? 100.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 andremach...@debian:~/temp$ mtr --report --report-cycles 2 volatile.debian.org HOST: debian Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. mygateway1.ar70.0% 20.6 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.1 2. 189.27.208.1.dynamic.adsl.gv 0.0% 25.6 5.7 5.6 5.8 0.1 3. gvt 0.0% 26.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 0.0 4. 189.59.252.2050.0% 26.3 6.4 6.3 6.5 0.1 5. gvt-host.gvt.net.br 0.0% 25.9 6.6 5.9 7.3 0.9 6. gvt-po-7-1-4-rc01.spo.gvt.ne 0.0% 2 20.0 20.1 20.0 20.1 0.1 7. Ge4 0.0% 2 20.9 23.2 20.9 25.5 3.2 8. So6 0.0% 2 138.1 191.3 138.1 244.5 75.2 9. Xe-1-3-0-0-grtwaseq2.red.tel 0.0% 2 158.3 169.5 158.3 180.6 15.8 10. So5-0-0-0-grtparix3.red.tele 0.0% 2 175.0 214.8 175.0 254.6 56.3 11. So5-1-0-0-grtlontl1.red.tele 0.0% 2 244.5 243.5 242.6 244.5 1.3 12. ns.de.prserv.net 0.0% 2 254.0 333.4 254.0 412.8 112.3 13. ns.de.prserv.net 0.0% 2 252.1 254.3 252.1 256.4 3.0 14. ??? 100.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 andremach...@debian:~/temp$
Re: IPv6 troubleshooting help needed
Hello, Simon Thanks for the guidance. The new commands outputs are below. Should I open a bug report to pseudo-package security.debian.org to track this issue instead of using this list? Regards. Andre Felipe andremach...@debian:~$ mtr -6 -n --report --report-cycles 2 volatile.debian.org HOST: debian Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev andremach...@debian:~$ mtr -6 -n --report --report-cycles 2 security.debian.org HOST: debian Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev andremach...@debian:~$ andremach...@debian:~$ mtr -n --report --report-cycles 2 security.debian.org HOST: debian Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. 10.1.1.1 0.0% 20.6 0.8 0.6 1.0 0.3 2. 189.27.208.1 0.0% 25.4 5.8 5.4 6.1 0.5 3. 200.175.124.193 0.0% 26.5 6.1 5.8 6.5 0.5 4. 189.59.252.2050.0% 26.5 6.6 6.5 6.7 0.2 5. 189.59.252.1850.0% 26.3 7.5 6.3 8.7 1.7 6. 189.59.248.5 0.0% 2 20.4 20.5 20.4 20.6 0.1 7. 84.16.10.209 0.0% 2 21.0 21.0 21.0 21.0 0.0 8. 213.140.36.65 0.0% 2 179.9 155.8 131.7 179.9 34.1 9. 84.16.13.61 0.0% 2 134.4 158.0 134.4 181.6 33.3 10. 213.140.37.14 0.0% 2 261.9 264.0 261.9 266.2 3.1 11. 213.140.38.30 0.0% 2 242.3 251.7 242.3 261.1 13.3 12. 195.66.226.27 0.0% 2 258.5 250.8 243.2 258.5 10.8 13. 195.66.224.27 0.0% 2 256.1 249.7 243.3 256.1 9.1 14. ??? 100.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 andremach...@debian:~$ mtr -n --report --report-cycles 2 volatile.debian.org HOST: debian Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. 10.1.1.1 0.0% 20.6 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.0 2. 189.27.208.1 0.0% 25.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 0.0 3. 200.175.124.193 0.0% 26.0 5.9 5.9 6.0 0.1 4. 189.59.252.2050.0% 26.4 6.5 6.4 6.7 0.2 5. 189.59.252.1850.0% 26.5 6.7 6.5 6.8 0.2 6. 189.59.248.5 0.0% 2 19.8 19.8 19.8 19.9 0.0 7. 84.16.10.209 0.0% 2 21.7 21.5 21.3 21.7 0.3 8. 213.140.36.69 0.0% 2 137.9 137.9 137.8 137.9 0.1 9. 213.140.36.50 0.0% 2 134.2 143.0 134.2 151.8 12.5 10. 84.16.15.121 0.0% 2 175.0 216.2 175.0 257.3 58.2 11. 213.140.36.2050.0% 2 261.1 254.9 248.8 261.1 8.7 12. 213.140.38.54 0.0% 2 232.4 235.2 232.4 238.0 3.9 13. ??? 100.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 andremach...@debian:~$
Re: IPv6 troubleshooting help needed
Hello, I am being unable to update systems (security and volatile) both at home and at work (Brasil). At work is very critical issue, as it is a Debian Partner, in the course of deploying Debian systems across Brasil federal key government agencies. A security mistake now will cost years of convincing effort... Where do I keep track of such issue? Regards. Andre Felipe Machado
Re: Debian money / hw summits / partner meetings / government / schools / workshops
Hello, It is worth to consider some key face to face and summits with OEMs [0] and potential partners [1], along with funding developers meetings. Canonical is already doing [0], as it is very needed. If I recall correctly some time ago Michlmayr traveled to Asia for some oem meetings. As an example of potential partner meetings, I am participating in [1] since day 0 (travels, meetings, audio conferences, phone calls, etc, without Debian funding), and despite being *very* hard and slow (and sometimes ugly because of the big stakes) at government, the events (sorry, no disclosure yet) are being good. Trying to get Debian and Debian Edu at schools will need more meetings also with government agencies. Schools seed the future of FOSS. Here at our DLUG, we are trying to make as many debian packaging workshops at schools and foss events as we could. The interest is surprising, given the heavy technical subject. Some participants stated that before the workshop, debian packaging seemed magic and now they feel confortable exploring documentation and tweaking experimental packages. Maybe future DDs come from such initiatives. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hardware-summit-2009-sept [1] http://times.debian.net/1272-SERPRO-chose-Debian-and-wishes-to-collaborate
Re: debian trademark tshirt
Hello, Barbora: You can make such described fair use of the Debian Open Use Logo [0] following its license written there. The genie bottle [1] is reserved for official (formal) use. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://www.debian.org/logos/index.en.html#open-use [1] http://www.debian.org/logos/index.en.html#official-use matouskova.barbora wrote .. Hello, I have a question about debian trademark. I am trying to find out whether I can use debian logo when making a shirt and I came across your quotation: We allow all businesses to make reasonable use of the Debian trademark. For example, if you make a CD of our Debian GNU/Linux distribution, you can call that product Debian. If you want to use the name in some other way, you should ask us first. Can I make a shirt with the debian logo? I am not going to sell it or make many of them. I would like to make one shirt for my brother who has been a debian user for many years. Thank your for any answer. Barbora Matouskova
Re: On cadence and collaboration
Hello, Please, forgive my limited english language skill. I hope clarify the subject a bit more. By no means I intended to discount Debian contributors, but to ADD more skilled people from the Canonical team to Debian efforts. There is (still) a limited supply of skilled people around the world on FOSS, and grouping more of them at same tasks will (likely) improve results and reduce individual efforts, and time to accomplish things. Canonical has its own view of what should be a distribution, and (likely) will keep its way of distro shape, but some convergent efforts for mutual benefit could be reached. The proposal is not an all or nothing approach. It is a fully adjustable one. From one package to entire repository. Trying small number of relevant packages at first round, and carefully evaluating efforts and commitment, and adjusting workflow until a working one could be agreed, could get good results with minimal risk for both projects. Some Debian Teams will not take part of the experiment because they have release goals unfeasible at such reduced time frame (even with more 3 months). Also, the releases will not be equal, because many packages will not be part of the experiment, and , say, number of acceptable release RC bugs for each project are different. But releasing same base versions (at least) will ease collaborative patching after freeze AND after respective releases. Continuous evaluation and adjustment are key factors for the future of the cadence and collaboration. Commitment of both sides to accomplish results for MUTUAL benefit in the long run (even without knowing how to do this with details at starting, so the adjustments and small group of packages) is important. Any action perceived as a trick would be seriously detrimental. Clear directions and collective planning at mailing list (a new dedicated one, maybe utnubu [0]), mutual good will at this experiment and benefit of doubt: ask details before reaction in case of any attrition will help. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/utnubu-discuss I wouldn't go as far as speaking of more skilled contributions, as that would discount quite a lot of Debian contributors, but there are certainly opportunities in this for us.
Re: On cadence and collaboration
Hello, Having read all thread, and letting some time to calm down the subject, I would like to suggest a few points, presuming that synchronizing could be done in a way in benefit of both projects. (please, forgive my poor english skill, if you have doubts, please ask for detailment). - Given that Debian Project has around 2000 commited devs and contributors, and Ubuntu around 156 (please, correct and update all numbers), and that Canonical has resources to commit deadlines for some tasks, Canonical needs Debian for its business model and Debian wants skilled commited devs and contributors and useful larger user base bug reports (and patches) for same versions. - Given that Debian has more than 25000 packages and Ubuntu LTS server around 800 and desktop around 2000 (please, correct and update numbers), a basic synchronization could be tried. - Maybe, as already suggested, the first try could has a 3 month delay to be feasible. - Maybe, the first try could be version sync for a small (or even *very small*) group of high profile user visible packages that also cause large number of bug reports and or (binary?) package compatibility problems (Ex.: kernel, gcc, postgresql, mysql, apache, php, gnome and or kde, etc). - For such an agreed small group of packages, Debian Project could list teams needing help to accomplish deadlines and Canonical could commit *enough resources* to help these teams meet freeze deadlines. - The work would be performed at Debian infrastructure (the upstream) not Launchpad, and compliant with Debian quality procedures and criteria. - The commitment and quality of Canonical efforts and resources contributions could be evaluated for future steps to a broad collaboration. - All efforts should be directed to diverge the respective distro patches for the agreed set of packages to an actual minimum, ideally, zero code difference. Kernel could be a special case, but having the *same upstream version as base* will be a good thing. - After the version freeze period, the release date would be each project decision. But versions would be definitive (at least until some tragic RC bug is found) for the package subset agreed. - The respective release dates will be different, given the different requirements and pre-conditions (more platforms, # of acceptable RC bugs, different number of packages released, etc ). - Canonical *WILL* release Ubuntu LTS server and LTS desktop with such agreed group of package *versions*. Period. - After the freeze and continuing after release, Canonical will commit the resources for help cleaning the bugs, and keeping security, that get into BTS and forward relevant Launchpad reports - and patches- to BTS as soon as possible. - Again, the commitment and quality of Canonical efforts and resources contributions at this phase could be evaluated for future steps to a broad collaboration. After this first round trip, the whole process would be evaluated and adjusted. Maybe cancelled or broadned. But without trying with a small group of highly user visible packages, we will not know. Mr. Shuttleworth is a business man and will likely perceive the value proposition and benefits for Canonical business model in the long run, despite requiring some more commitment of resources ahead and after release, but limited to a small group of key packages that causes lots of bug reports and or binary incompatibilities during release life cycle. Not having to deal alone with these versions' bugs will reduce Canonical costs. And neither Debian alone. [0] At Debian Project side, there could be benefits of more skilled contributions and BTS reports and patches, with consolidated collaboration even synergetic in future, and predictable work oportunity windows for Teams. Plans could be articulated with more teams. Starting with a small group of key packages has chance to succeed and will not have too much risk for both projects. Both projects will have to concede some next release goals to reduce scope and needed work. Maybe some Debian release goal could be accomplished in a longer time frime but involved packages will NOT be part of the small group of agreed packages for FREEZE date. Thus, Debian will release with such planned goal, but the involved packages will not be the same of Ubuntu LTS, not being part of the agreed group, but without much fuss because respective Teams were not commited to release without such goal. Improvements and corrections for these suggestions are welcome. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] ([Off Topic and not deserving answer as it is an unqualified suggestion]: Maybe, Canonical could be improve margins if Ubuntu becomes, ACTUALLY, a debian pure blend, differentiating itself with package preconfigurations (preseed) and package sets, and even release dates because pure-blends could release cuts of sid or testing, afaik). Maintaining a distro alone is a costly proposition. But it may not be feasible anymore. Maybe, with improving working
Debian Day 2009 around the world?
Hello, There are already six Brazilian cities and one at Nicaragua preparing Debian Day 2009 events. (some are almost true IT conferences) Are there other cities at other countries [0] preparing such events? Please, spread the word and edit [0] to include other cities. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianDay2009 Paul Wise wrote .. I suggest writing to debian-project if you want to find out about more Debian Day 2009 events, I doubt debian-publicity has any where near as many developers subscribed. -- bye, pabs
Re: Debian redesign
Hello, Good questions. And could be added: what values Debian Project wants to be known for? Debian products outcomes have solid values and worth. It should be easier to communicate with truth at your side. The suitable place for these discussions is the debian-publicity list [0]. There are qualified and or interested people regarding these subjects. Even so, the Pixel Girl proposal is broad in scope and debian-www and debian-desktop teams should also be involved. This will involve a good amount of teams work coordination and communication. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-publicity/ [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/ [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-desktop/ Em Dom, 2009-08-02 às 10:14 +0200, Serafeim Zanikolas escreveu: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:51:22PM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote [edited]: You can take a look at her presentation at: https://penta.debconf.org/dc9_schedule/attachments/112_debian_redesign.tar.gz What do you think? :D WRT the pics of the campaign, I find the ensuing discussion rather unproductive without an agreed upon set of objectives and the tradeoffs involved, eg. - What's the relative priority of the different groups of people we're aiming at? DDs and potential new contributors? corporate users? individual users? In other words, should the campaign focus in say attracting more corporate users, or more hackers applying for membership? (pixegirl says people outside the organisation, some debian folks disagree) - Do we want the campaign to be contentious (I'd think not) or as far as possibly inoffensive (and again, these perceptions vary among different kinds of groups)? Seems like many debian folks find pixelgirl's work of high quality but not meeting the desirable tradeoffs. Has there been an agreement or even a discussion about these tradeoffs in any debian list? -S -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian redesign
Hello, The art and design proposal are interesting. The logo should be discussed and voted as the current one was, and it is not essential to change. Some ideas behind its redesign could be backported to the current logo, as to choose some nice looking free font instead of a proprietary one, and good scaling capability. The posters do not send the right message about the values of Debian but were well crafted. They are proposals. A possible requirement for global posters could be suitability for different cultures, (something nice at Amsterdan could be offensive at Saudi Arabia, for example; something positive at NY could be depressive at China, another example). The site and imagery proposal (cards, cd covers, banners, templates, etc) is interesting and worth an evaluation by all. But why not join efforts with the www-team, also? I remember when Pixelgirl approached other debian-list and explained its concepts [3] and coordination problems were pointed already there [5]. The Project is in need of qualified people and welcome efforts, but these valuable efforts should be maximized without double, or conflicting, or un coordinated actions (as already stated by FAW and Rhonda). The Pixelgirl proposal is broader than a site redesign. And the site redesign is a giant task itself, with many many constraints and requirements [6], as Kalle is demonstrating [1]. The Project could consider the PixelGirl proposal as it is: a good proposal for discussion and improvements. Please, do not shoot the initiative in the head, but direct it to the right direction. Please, invite her to join the other teams involved [4][6][7][8] at the tasks covered by her work. Also, invite her to join efforts with Rhonda and Kalle advanced stage work. Regards. Andre Felipe [0] http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/debian/2009/07/28 [1] http://www.kalleswork.net/projects/debian/ [2] https://penta.debconf.org/dc9_schedule/attachments/112_debian_redesign.tar.gz [3] http://lists.debian.org/debian-publicity/2008/08/msg00084.html [4] http://lists.debian.org/debian-publicity/2008/08/msg00097.html [5] http://lists.debian.org/debian-publicity/2008/08/msg00102.html [6] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWebSiteProject [7] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-desktop/ [8] http://www.debian.org/devel/website/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how to install Debian Hurd//como instalar Debian Hurd
Hello, Andres I guess that if after reading [0] you still face problems, your best chance to get focused and fast answers is following instructions at [1] and [2]. The list debian-project is about Project organization. The lists at [1] and [2] are specialized and will give better information about the Debian Hurd. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-install [1] http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-contact [2] http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-devel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian popularity = Debian Pure Blends
Hello, I guess that the main question, as already cited by others, is how derivatives work with Debian Project. Currently, the Debian Pure Blends concept [0] is the right way to work with Debian Project. Forks are not the efficient way to work with Debian. Forks are a way to get control over a given project future, with too much friction. Debian Pure Blends is a way to achieve multipath Project future. So, the Debian Pure Blends should be emphasized. BrDesktop [1] is nice idea: a Debian Pure Blend focused on desktop experience with an interesting proposed release cycle. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado [0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2008/11/msg1.html [1] http://www.brdesktop.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: It's all about trust at Debian Project
Hello, I have read the posts about this long awaited subject discussion. (please, forgive my poor english, and ask for details) Interesting ideas to register, already posted by others: - Simplify things. * There are too much overloaded people already. Teams should be emphasized. * There are too few people in charge of too important things yet. Bus factor. * NM long and detailed; and still does not guarantee trust. - Fewer titles (2). Instead use of roles/ profiles/ permissions (chosen names are open for discussion). * DC (no vote) +Coder = DM +NonCoder * DMe (vote) +Coder = DD (with progressive upload rights?) +Noncoder As DD is a stablished name, it could be DMe and DD able to vote. Or stick with DD name, specifying if could upload or not when needed. - LDAP - Starting with an empty keyring for adding active people (staged?) - No obligatory voting (very ugly side effects at Brasil), but some other method for disabling rights for inactive, MIA, until they request or self reactivate their rights. - No keyring removal of MIA, but disabling rights until requesting reactivation. - There are *very skilled* contributors at other knowledge areas in need at Debian Project, other than coding. - There are very *committed* contributors, not being coders, and aligned with Debian Project values. - Trust is built with committment, some time, and some check points and public track record. - The public track record of technical and other kinds of contributions could be checked and count at the NM (or NC) also for time. - Progressively receiving rights. I hope these could evolve to an improved proposal. Could you point to some non-programmers contributors that would be interested into that process? I am one of them. At Debian Publicity Team may be there others. I would like to start in steps because of the study time needed to become a full DD. I am raising my kid and time never goes back. I already have a signed GPG, access to one machine only for my tasks at Publicity Team, already co-maintain upstream deb package outside Debian repository, and use it for use case to maintaining advanced packaging doc at wiki.d.o, and I am at Debian Partner Team. A curious situation. I am coding _outside_ Debian Project (package, code, sysadmin, at day job), but i am contributing at _other areas_ inside Debian Project. A few days ago, my lack of a @d.o address and DD keyring entry needed intervention of our Team leader. So, I am needing some kind of formal status in order to accomplish my current tasks at Debian Project. This discussion is of direct interest for me. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian Linux at German Department of State
Hello, I browsed by the lists.debian.org and still not sure if this debian-project is the right list to post this msg. If not, please let me know the correct one. Does anyone have more information about According to the printed version of German Linux Magazin, January 2006 edition, the German Department of State recently completed the switch of 2.500 desktops from Windows XP to Debian Linux without any noise. This fits to the strategy of Department of State to route all network traffic from and to the German embassies via Linux servers which are all certified for “Top Secret” messaging. showed at the site: http://vale.homelinux.net/wordpress/?p=46 I am collecting some high profile success cases of Debian and Linux at my brazilian portuguese blog page: http://www.techforce.com.br/index.php/news/linux_blog/casos_de_sucesso_com_linux Automated google english translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.techforce.com.br%2Findex.php%2Fnews%2Flinux_blog% 2Fcasos_de_sucesso_com_linuxlangpair=pt% 7Cenhl=pt-BRie=UTF-8oe=UTF-8prev=%2Flanguage_tools The sucess cases deserves publicity. They motivate users. Thanks. Andre Felipe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Debian Common Core Alliance? Why not Debian?
Hello, After reading Mr. Perens' interview at http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=showid=4921page=1 and the article at http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1848889,00.asp It is not clearly stated: it will not be a fork, but a subproject inside Debian And DCCA was already launched. Maybe I forgot some paragraph, but it would be nice to have some of the nice ideas implemented on Debian. Could someone clear the doubts? Regards Andre Felipe Machado htttp://www.techforce.com.br -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Debian Core Consortium ? Why not Debian?
Hello, Until this moment, I guess there are some points to be solved with the proposition and its nice ideas. This week, Sun Wah Linux talked about DCC Alliance: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,,1845318,00.asp Nonetheless, we believe that this activity should be carried out as much as possible within the Debian Project. At this time, the DCC Alliance and the Debian Project are separate entities, and the DCC Alliance's release of the Debian Common Core, even though it is argued as 100 percent Debian interchangeable, is certainly a fork in the Project, said Shuji. This is because the thousand Debian Developers who have not joined the DCC Alliance will be excluded, raising the fear that, in the long term, it could 'lead to the breakup' of the Debian Project. Today, I had the very rare oportunity to ask Mark Shuttleworth at a local event about DCC and why Ubuntu is not joining it. Ian already contacted Mark about DCC and he declined for now. In short, the reasons are the *almost* the same as Sun Wah Linux ones (but not exactly nor only reasons). Maybe in the future Ubuntu could join. The DCC Alliance has some clever ideas. Debian project has the social contract. Debian project is trying to solve some well known issues for the future and next releases. Is it not possible to integrate these DCC nice ideas into Debian? - predictable releases (18 to 24 months server, 6 to 12 months desktop?) - predictable support for time after release - a Debian base core (kernel, key libraries, etc) - componentized and isolated building blocks sw (gnome, kde, X, apache, etc) DCC is a good initiative and would be nice to get it into Debian (the technical part) as a sub project / CDD / task group / work group. By integrating into Debian, costs will be lowered and benefits will be multiplied. The commercial part still will have to be carried out of Debian, I guess. Please, clarify these questions. Regards. Andre Felipe Machado http://www.techforce.com.br/index.php/news/linux_blog -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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