Re: similarities between logos for CLUSTER and Debian
Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: I don't think so: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=4803:q33o33.2.1 The mark consists of a spiral formed with the style of a paintbrush stroke with the word debian written. And there are much simpler trademarks out there. The logo of a famous clothing company consists in a blue square with three characters written in white, in a given font. i.e. swirl on its own is not trademarked, thus could be freely used for other projects The swirl is a trademark, regardless of your uninformed opinion on that topic. -- Joss -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1421077953.26565.252.camel@dsp0698014
Re: Being part of a community and behaving
The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: I find that interesting. I recall being told that, while it is technically possible to compile and use GNOME without systemd - specifically, without libpam-systemd and its backend infrastructure - doing so now loses so much functionality that the result is barely (if at all) worth using. (This is a paraphrase.) Is that not correct? Not quite. The functionality that is directly dependent on systemd (timedated, hostnamed and the like) would be missing, but not to the point of making the desktop unusable. However, many pieces of GNOME depend directly on PolicyKit, which can only use one of ConsoleKit or systemd-logind, the choice being made at build time. In short: if you want to make GNOME in Debian work without systemd, you need to make PolicyKit able to switch between both at runtime (like GDM does). Cheers, -- Joss -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1415955699.9034.43.camel@dsp0698014
Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Le mardi 12 août 2014 à 03:03 +0100, Anthony F McInerney a écrit : I had stated previously XFCE had started showing memory usage similar to gnome. This has quite obviously changed. I was wrong, and i'm posting it as a correction to my statement. You’re comparing apples and oranges. These memory usage comparisons are only useful at feature parity - which doesn’t exist, since different environments have different paradigms and different feature sets. How much RAM does your browser use? Lots, which is why i prefer my DE not to eat it all. When the browser uses 1 GB while GNOME (including evolution and many other running applications) uses half of that, I don’t think you need to look for memory savings in the desktop. You need to buy more RAM and that’s all, because browsers won’t suddenly stop needing their gigabyte. If you can't run GNOME because you don't have the system specs to run a modern desktop then you can select XFCE/LXDE in the installation menu. But let's be fair, those people are a minority. And a default should fit the needs of the majority. Ahh good you have statistics for that. Please link them, or quote and cite sources. I just had a look at an online hardware store. Out of their 682 laptops and 332 desktops: * 1 model has 1 GiB * 48 models have 2 GiB * 470 models have 4 GiB * 495 have 6 GiB or more Which means 0,1% of the machines you can buy are not able to run a web browser anyway, 5% are more than enough for a full-fledged GNOME+web browser, and all the rest are very comfortable with anything you can run under Linux. Some people like the 'basic 3d acceleration' for other things, so not only do you want me to sacrifice my RAM to all powerful DE, but also my GPU? How kind of you ;) We happen at work to have users with very important needs of 3D resources, so one of my colleagues conducted some performance tests with and without a compositor (the compositor being GNOME 3). It turns out that with a recent adapter, 3D applications are running a small bit faster under GNOME, and that’s probably because it saves your graphics card the pain to switch from 2D to 3D contexts. -- .''`.Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1407838921.26277.435.camel@dsp0698014
Re: [Pkg-xfce-devel] Reverting to GNOME for jessie's default desktop
Le mardi 12 août 2014 à 13:12 +0100, Anthony F McInerney a écrit : Virtualbox Results (no guest drivers installed) Glxgears is not a relevant 3D benchmark. But the funniest thing is that you did this test without any 3D acceleration, which is not representative at all of most real-world computers. Thanks for making the point that with llvmpipe, GNOME is perfectly usable on a machine without 3D. -- .''`.Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1407846059.26277.455.camel@dsp0698014
Re: Slowdown problem of a Debian package
Hi, Le jeudi 20 juin 2013 à 09:35 +0900, Shigio YAMAGUCHI a écrit : [bless.sh] + |#!/bin/sh |# |# Copyright (c) 2000, 2004, 2010 Tama Communications Corporation |# |# This file is free software; as a special exception the author gives |# unlimited permission to copy and/or distribute it, with or without |# modifications, as long as this notice is preserved. |# |# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but |# WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law; without even the |# implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. |# |# Usage: |# $ sh bless.sh |# |if [ ! -f 'bless.sh' ]; then | echo Bless.sh script should be executed as 'sh bless.sh'. | exit 1 |fi |# |# Bless the site key. |# |pwd '/usr/local/var/gtags/sitekeys/mykey' + Sorry for chiming in; I have no idea what GNU Global is. But whatever it is, this needs to be said: thanks to Ron for keeping such poorly designed code out of Debian. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1371755339.27562.2.camel@tomoyo
Re: [Debconf-discuss-discuss-discuss-and-keep-discussing] ...
Le mercredi 05 décembre 2012 à 08:50 +0100, Andreas Tille a écrit : Sure it is. Josselin was refering to outsiders as people who neither read the brochure nor have visited the location and neither were involved deeply in the organisation of a DebConf (so people as himself). Thanks for confirming that “outsiders” is a term for people whom you actively dragged into your shit first. Sometimes I’m ashamed just participating in the same project as a person with such behavior. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354736206.10966.9.camel@tomoyo
Re: Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
Le mardi 04 décembre 2012 à 15:02 +0100, Andreas Tille a écrit : If these people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork_Assassins%27_Guild would use Debian it is perfectl in line with our social contract. Thus I can't see a reason why they should not sponsor DebConf. There’s a huge difference between letting anyone using our software and accepting money from anyone. “The hand that gives is over the hand that receives.” So far for trying to make something out of your troll posting and I do not really want to feed you but it would be great if you would start sticking to a single relevant mailing list rather than also spoiling debian-project. These sponsorship arrangements affect the project as a whole, and are definitely relevant to the project as a whole. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354647250.9466.3.camel@tomoe
Re: [Debconf-discuss-discuss-discuss-and-keep-discussing] ...
Le mardi 04 décembre 2012 à 13:38 -0600, Gunnar Wolf a écrit : People, (most of) the Swiss team is pissed with the lack of trust and lack of respect we have been showing for months already, and that now some very vocal outsiders (i.e. Debian people who are not involved in this year's DebConf organization) are showing. Is the “outsiders” word also meaning to describe people who were asked for sponsorship and discovered later that the brochure they were sent had almost nothing to do with what’s actually going on? -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354657008.11540.4.camel@tomoe
Re: [Debconf-discuss] [Debconf-discuss-discuss-discuss-and-keep-discussing] ...
Le mercredi 05 décembre 2012 à 08:27 +0100, Giacomo A. Catenazzi a écrit : For a lot of people, your writing seems out of context. The sponsorship brochure is linked in: http://debconf13.debconf.org/helpus.xhtml If other people find that it *had almost nothing to do* with DebConf, please tell us. As currently planned, Debconf 13 has nothing to do with a conference you would ask sponsorship to a fortune 500 company for. BTW: someone noticed me that I did a single-list-reply on my answer to your previous mail. Here my reply: http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20121204.130912.539d5f32.en.html. I’m aware of this reply, and I’m glad you mention it. I invite everyone at large to read it, it is very insightful – although probably not in the way you meant it to be. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354693122.7074.6.camel@tomoyo
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
Le dimanche 02 décembre 2012 à 18:31 +0100, Philipp Hug a écrit : AFAIK there was an offer of a huge anonymous donation, which at the end seemed more a loan, and IIRC to speed up the process and not let discuss about lack of money. I don't know the source and I don't know if there was string attached. Anyway that offer endured only few days because debconf-team and localteam declined such offer. This is correct. After this was mentioned on IRC I asked about the details of this 'donation' and figured out it's just a loan, accepting some risks though, but with strings attached: The venue would need to be LeCamp. Is this anonymous-donation-which-is-not-a-donation story related to the rumors of sponsorship from a large tobacco company? It would worry me that it was even considered to accept money from a murderer company. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354561294.24058.7.camel@tomoyo
Re: [Debconf-discuss] Anonymous donation to Debconf 13
Le dimanche 02 décembre 2012 à 20:22 +0100, Holger Levsen a écrit : DebConf13 will be held in Le Camp, Vaumarcus, Switzerland. The DebConf chairs atm are preparing a message explaining why we (still ;) think this is a good idea. If you think DebConf is a total desaster and should be done so and so, please apply for DebConf14. Or 15. Thanks. I couldn’t care less whether a gathering of geeks who feel like they’re still 16, in the woods is a total disaster or not. But if it is, I hope you do not count on the Debian project’s money to fill in the budget gaps. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354561486.24058.10.camel@tomoyo
Accomodation for DC13 [was “anonymous donation”]
Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 20:04 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit : I couldn’t care less whether a gathering of geeks who feel like they’re still 16, in the woods is a total disaster or not. Since I was privately asked to clarify; I feel extremely unwelcome at a place where basically the only way I could sleep correctly would be bringing my own inflatable mattress – and from the photographs, I would still be worrying about coming back with little friends in my hair and asthma for weeks. This is apparently the most comfortable place to sleep there: a room for two. http://www.groups.ch/images/haeuser/zusatz/K-0806-5487-7_20091202030934.jpg Notice how nice you’ll feel if you are more than 1m80. This is the “basic” place to sleep in Le Camp: http://www.groups.ch/images/haeuser/zusatz/K-0806-5487-6_20091202024753.jpg Yes, what you can see in the back is another layer of mattresses near the ceiling. Don’t forget these are photographs, probably made to look *nicer* than reality. But don’t worry, if you want to sleep very close in Château Vaumarcus, it will only cost you 320 f***ing CHF, which after all, at current rates, only means 256 EUR. Per night. More than twice the price of a decent room in Paris, which is already an expensive city. Or you could sleep 20 minutes away and come by car every morning (and still pay very high hotel rates). I could feel welcome in a place lost in the woods, near a lake, if I wanted to go walk in the woods or have fun on the lake. But DebConf is meant to be a conference with several hundred people, not a gathering of youngsters who want to spend a week lost in the woods in close promiscuity. I feel sorry for those who are still trying to make DC13 great, but who instead have to cope with such absurd proposals from the local team, and with the debconf team’s petty requirements — for example, using a dedicated infrastructure and FSM-knows-how-many servers for a wiki and a pair of misconfigured mailing lists with unusable archive software. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1354604232.8075.22.camel@tomoe
Re: Debian with Gnome 2 ?
Le dimanche 16 septembre 2012 à 13:51 +0300, Ka Hay a écrit : Unfortunately, with Ubuntu again, I was unable to start that famous fallback mode. I followed every step of every instruction that I found, re-installing the linux in the mean time and no luck, Sir, it just did not like me. I am not so stupid for a girl but I had no luck at all. Debian is not Ubuntu. In Debian the “GNOME Classic” mode is available right from the login manager, and it is here in the default install. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1348060548.3542.413.camel@pi0307572
Re: Debian Position on Software Patents
Le jeudi 12 avril 2012 à 19:07 +0530, dE . a écrit : I'm very much unhappy with the policies put down here, looking at the amount of patents Microsoft is holding, it making developing any software a challenge; that results in the Debian repos being --emtpy--. For the - at least - 15th time, this is NOT what the position means. No software in Debian is *known* to be infringing on Microsoft patents. Regardless of the claims of either Microsoft or the morons at boycottnovell. As a result I suggest, restricting the download and hosting of such software in the US.. since software patents practically only apply to the US, and until such laws are removed (which's basically a restriction of what you write in a text editor), the people of the US should be faced with such inconvenience. And for at least the 15th too, this is not a US-only problem (although the US patent office is known to do a much worse job than others at checking for validity of submitted patents). -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1334240638.3950.135.camel@pi0307572
Re: OSI affiliation
Le lundi 13 février 2012 à 18:40 +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : Dear project members, as you might have heard post-FOSDEM, the Open Source Initiative (OSI) is opening up to an affiliate membership structure [1,2]. As I've already mentioned in [3], representatives of OSI have approached me to know if Debian is interested into joining. I'd like to discuss with you such a possibility. This looks very good on paper, but as others have mentioned, the OSI has taken various decisions that were in complete contradiction with the Debian project, especially on accepting non-free licenses as “open source”. While it would be nice to see their decision process evolve to become saner on this matter, I’m very worried to see Debian’s name used to condone licenses we would not accept. Therefore, having an advisor from the Project at OSI would be nice, but in no situation should Debian’s name be affiliated with OSI until we have seen over several years that their behavior has effectively changed, and that “open source” certifications for non-free licenses have been revoked. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1329484159.3297.818.camel@pi0307572
Re: 1 year release good enough.
Le dimanche 01 janvier 2012 à 11:51 +0530, dE . a écrit : I was wondering about the 2 year release cycle of Debian and it's adaptability on the Desktops. This is bullshit. Desktop systems don’t have specific release cycle needs. Also note that the most popular desktop operating system uses a release cycle of 3 years, not 1 year. You have to admit that Debian is not used used much on the Desktops -- it appears to be more popular for servers; and the 2 year release cycle is good for servers; increasing the release cycles to a higher amount is also not bad when it comes to servers. Cause servers don't have to care much about hardware compatibility and changes in protocols/formats following the limited amount of task they do, or they don't require periodic updates to installed software. This is bullshit. Server hardware can change just as much as desktop hardware. Actually, it is becoming more and more the same hardware. On the desktops however, in the above context, things differ completely. There's new hardware available always; within a period of 2 years, the generation of hardware changes requiring new drivers. How is that different from servers? An upgrade of X drivers is yet more complicated, not to mention backporting ATI and Nvidia drivers become yet more complicated and often impossible in a system more than 1 year old. Again more bullshit. In reality, proprietary drivers are much easier to backport, and there’s been significant progress for free drivers too. Apart from hardware compatibility, newer standards (like HTML 5, h265, document formats etc...) are a necessity for a the Desktops but backporing the corresponding program may not be possible because of very old libraries. *Very old*? Please. Further, Desktop systems dont require that much of stability and reliability and even security many times. This is the sentence with the highest bullshit density in your bullshit email. The largest security threat in today’s computing is certainly the terminal, as it is subject to a large amount of communication with a wide range of data of various sensibilities, making it the easiest way to expose sensible data from an open network. Desktops are the devices which require the most security attention, and in the next years this is going to shift to embedded devices as they start accessing an even wider range of data. As a consequence, I suggest a sub-stable branch who's release cycle will be 1 year. As compared to the stable branch, this branch should be more flexible to upgrades and even downgrades -- our objective should be to include the software version in the sub-stable branch which apparently have the least bugs and other critical issues -- for e.g. KDE 4.7 has a lot of new small bugs as compared to 4.6 -- I've to say KDE 4.6 was better in terms of number of bugs, thus the sub-stable branch should continue to include the 4.6 release of KDE. If a major upstream bugs or issue is found in a package, it'll be upgraded. If you knew how our release process worked, you would understand this is bullshit too. Such proposals have been debated again and again over the years, and were never found useful. You are not looking for a distribution for desktops. You are looking for a distribution with the most recent software. There are various devices on which one could need this, including desktops, servers and embedded devices. Usually, you don’t do this on production systems, though - and that includes production desktops. No, I’m not talking about the computer you have at home with only 2 users. Since there's a new branch, there'll be additional loads on the developers (backports and all that), I suggest the unstable branch be demolished (I'm not clear about it's role though) and increase the migration time from experimental to testing. If you don’t even know what unstable is for, what the hell are you babbling about? -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: 1 year release good enough.
Le dimanche 01 janvier 2012 à 16:19 +0530, dE . a écrit : This is bullshit. Desktop systems don’t have specific release cycle needs. Also note that the most popular desktop operating system uses a release cycle of 3 years, not 1 year. You might not have known, but the LTS release is not often used much What LTS release? There’s only one major Windows release every 3 years, and you can’t say these releases aren’t used much. Ok, I'll given e.gs. For starters, try compiling GIT ffmpeg on one of the stable boxes Hay, that's the official ffmpeg way... Why wouldn’t it work? I had no trouble at all backporting libav to stable not long ago. Of course, the fact that libav developers are morons when it comes to releasing doesn’t help, but it’s not related to our release cycle. What about attack surface? Desktops are issues cause most people use Windows, and we ain't talking bullshit OSs here. A server is on day and night increasing the attack surface -- still worst, it has to listen and respond to queries which may be malformed to trigger a vulnerability. But Desktops have file wall installed -- they take no queries. Could you do one thing for me? Just one? Please never, EVER, apply for a job which is even remotely related to computer security. Thank you, and happy year 2012. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Greaat disappointment
Le samedi 01 octobre 2011 à 01:55 +0200, Qactuar Rogue a écrit : I do not want Debian anymore however. I do not wish to use software developed by those people who are surfing on your IRC channels, thank you very much. I’m afraid I have to inform you that Debian is not developed by people who spend their days trolling on #debian. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Greaat disappointment
Le samedi 01 octobre 2011 à 01:55 +0200, Qactuar Rogue a écrit : I still want Linux. I hate Windows. Microsoft is a disgusting transnational organization. OMFFSM, how could I miss that? → sent by cact...@hotmail.com Obvious troll is trolling. kthxbye, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Gnome3 :s
Le mercredi 14 septembre 2011 à 08:31 +0200, Jan Hauke Rahm a écrit : And actually I just tried again, and with the latest radeon driver it is still slow, but usable now. (Which is consistent with the fact some GNOME developers have exactly the same GPU.) What exactly is slow on your system? I'm using Gnome3 (with gnome shell) and it works pretty well. But then, it's not using many effects, is it? At least I don't see the compiz-like bubbling windows or anything. Am I missing something here? Or is my hardware just to good? :P My hardware (the RS690) is a bastard architecture for which the drivers don’t do a very good job, that’s all. Most hardware should be more than enough to run GNOME Shell, and eventually it may even work in software rendering with llvmpipe. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1315984449.3239.1.camel@pi0307572
Re: Gnome3 :s
Le mardi 13 septembre 2011 à 15:18 +0200, Mehdi Dogguy a écrit : Gnome Debian Maintainers already expressed their opinion on this specific question. You can read [1] and [2] to have an idea on their plan. They might be better references to cite out there, but can't find any other right now. [1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2011/06/msg00023.html [2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2011/04/msg00023.html I don’t have much to add. I’m using the fallback GNOME session daily; I’ve made it available as a specific session in GDM in the Debian packages. It’s awesome and fixes a lot of bugs that used to be in GNOME 2. (I think GNOME Shell is awesome too, BTW. I just don’t have the hardware to run it.) -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: relationships with GNU as an upstream - call for feedback
Le mardi 21 juin 2011 à 17:26 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli a écrit : I'll be glad to talk about that. But I would also like to take the chance to present how we feel about GNU as an upstream, in case we have anything more to say about GNU than what we have to say about other upstreams (see for example initiatives like [1,2,3]). I’m not a GNU package maintainer (unless you still consider GNOME a GNU project), so I’m not saying anything about GNU as upstream developers, but if you want to discuss frankly our issues with them, I hope you can talk about RMS and the handful of holier-than-thou followers who always find something that is “not free enough”. There’s the topic of non-free firmwares of course (which suddenly become free when they are shipped as EPROMs), and there’s the insanity that is said every other day about Mono and anything loosely related to Microsoft. These people still represent the voice of the community in the minds of journalists. They should consider it a great responsibility on their shoulders, and I think they are abusing it; instead of promoting the actual voice of the community, they are scaring people away by extremist views based on incorrect claims. I’d also join the crowd on the topic of non-free documentation which is still extremely cumbersome for us, and forces people to add non-free APT lines to install documentation for their free software. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: gnome2
Le samedi 11 juin 2011 à 23:04 -0500, Michael Fogg a écrit : will debian in future releases use gnome 2.32 becuse gnome 3s fallback mode just is not gnome 2.32. Indeed. GNOME 3 in fallback mode is much better than 2.32, and a lot of long-standing bugs have been fixed. Apart from the compatibility issues with some applets (and really, it’s less than an hour of work to port a C applet if there’s still someone interested in it) I only see improvement. i know it takes a lot to maintain gnome 2 but will you please keep it in the system. The complexity of doing so would be huge because GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 are not designed to be parallel installable. It would require parallel installation of things as low-level as GLib, for example. Feel free to start a packaging sub-project to do so, but be aware that the task is enormous, you won’t have any support from upstream and you will meet hostility from core Debian teams because of the code duplication you would introduce. maybye what you can do is make two gnome distros one for gnome 3 and gnome 2 that looks good to me and hopefully to you. That will not happen. There is only one Debian distribution. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1308042694.18675.308.camel@pi0307572
Re: *-dfsg packages
Le jeudi 23 septembre 2010 à 22:20 +0200, Enrico Weigelt a écrit : I've had problems with developing *-dfsg source packages several times (the most evil case was mysql-5.0.x, where the orig source tree is totally unusable and is repaired somewhere within the build process with certain ugly sed hacks). This is really ugly. This is a non-issue. I’d suggest spending time fixing real bugs instead. -- .''`. : :' : “You would need to ask a lawyer if you don't know `. `' that a handshake of course makes a valid contract.” `--- J???rg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1285329379.10100.0.ca...@meh
Re: UPDATE DEBIAN VER 2.1 ......AND MORE
Le dimanche 22 août 2010 à 12:36 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit : Accessibility to non-experts is not the primary focus of the Debian project, You obviously don’t speak for the project as a whole. -- .''`. : :' : “You would need to ask a lawyer if you don't know `. `' that a handshake of course makes a valid contract.” `--- J???rg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1282553546.5507.9.ca...@meh
Re: Conflicts between Developers: Let others mediate
Le jeudi 01 juillet 2010 à 11:23 -0700, Don Armstrong a écrit : If you ever find yourself in a situtation where you are in conflict with another developer, and you're unable to make headway, please rely on others to mediate. You can contact the DPL (lea...@debian.org) or the CTTE (for technical matters) or even myself or any other Developer you trust. Yeah sure. We have such good examples of successful mediations within the project in the past. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone, `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1278021603.2777.4.ca...@tomoe
Re: Debian 6.0
Le lundi 07 juin 2010 à 01:05 -0700, Navid Alamati a écrit : Hi , When Debian 6.0 will be released ? When it’s ready. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you eat pasta without sauce, it is nothing `- short of communism.” -- Marie -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1275900074.32556.3.ca...@meh
Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation
Le vendredi 07 mai 2010 à 09:49 +0800, Paul Wise a écrit : So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you don't have physical access to and which requires non-free firmware blobs to access the network? Does it occur in any other situation? I've never had to do such a thing, what is your current approach to that? I assume you aren't using CD images here since you mentioned netinst. I’ve never had trouble with such hardware. You can plug a virtual USB device with a hd-media boot image, and put the firmwares on the same image. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “A handshake with whitnesses is the same `- as a signed contact.” -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1273226551.28184.3.ca...@meh
Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation
Le mercredi 05 mai 2010 à 23:26 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz a écrit : This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at different locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in non-free. Indeed, there is no reason. There is broad consensus that this is fine as long as we keep shipping firmware-free images in main. If debian does not do so officially, I might provide them somewhere. Maybe the reason why Debian doesn’t do so “officially” is that people prefer to whine and initiate stupid votes rather than sticking their fingers out of their arses and just do it? If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist. If you have a need for it, then just do it. And since you’re a DD you can do so “officially”. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone, `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Welcome to our 2010 Debian Google Summer of Code students!
Le mardi 27 avril 2010 à 08:54 +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen a écrit : Objection noted, and it is of course accepted and understood that you do not help out with this project. I do on the other hand expect you to not create hurdles for the student to allow the student to be as productive as possible. Argument noted. I will try to remember it the next time you report a bug against a package you do not maintain. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “A handshake with whitnesses is the same `- as a signed contact.” -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1272352888.13500.1.ca...@meh
Re: Welcome to our 2010 Debian Google Summer of Code students!
Le lundi 26 avril 2010 à 21:40 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu a écrit : == Debian High Performance Computing on Clouds == by Dominique Belhachemi, mentored by Steffen Moeller The project paves a way to combine the demands in high performance computing with the dynamics of compute clouds with Debian. Combining the Eucalyptus cloud computing infrastructure with the TORQUE resource manager and preparing the components for dynamically added and removed instances provides the user with a attractive high performance computing environment. Such a system allows users to share resources with large compute centers with minimal changes in their workflow and scripts. Sorry but I have to object to a project that is based on non-free software. Especially when we have free and superior packages in the archive that provide similar functionality. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone, `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Welcome to our 2010 Debian Google Summer of Code students!
Le lundi 26 avril 2010 à 23:12 +0200, Josselin Mouette a écrit : Le lundi 26 avril 2010 à 21:40 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu a écrit : == Debian High Performance Computing on Clouds == by Dominique Belhachemi, mentored by Steffen Moeller The project paves a way to combine the demands in high performance computing with the dynamics of compute clouds with Debian. Combining the Eucalyptus cloud computing infrastructure with the TORQUE resource manager and preparing the components for dynamically added and removed instances provides the user with a attractive high performance computing environment. Such a system allows users to share resources with large compute centers with minimal changes in their workflow and scripts. Sorry but I have to object to a project that is based on non-free software. Especially when we have free and superior packages in the archive that provide similar functionality. Michael Bank just explained to me privately that the Torque license is actually more free than it used to be. And while it has very obnoxious restrictions, it sounds like something that could be accepted in main. So provided that the FTP masters give their approval to it, I will have to retract that objection. That said, I retain my stance on the technical superiority of other software (like slurm-llnl) over torque. I don’t see anything in the proposal that justifies using a software which is a bit outdated and with a blurry license per se - but if the student knows it better, it also makes sense. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone, `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: get.debian.net installing gNewsomething instead of Debian
Le mercredi 21 avril 2010 à 10:16 +0800, Paul Wise a écrit : BTW, gNewSense is the correct spelling of the GNU derivative of Ubuntu/Debian. Maybe, but we feel like calling it “Gee, nonsense”. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “A handshake with whitnesses is the same `- as a signed contact.” -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1271845005.29806.0.ca...@meh
Re: Debian money
Le jeudi 10 septembre 2009 à 00:57 +0100, Steve McIntyre a écrit : 1 New hardware / equipment a The DSA team have a wishlist of new hardware they'd like […] Full ack. Hardware is not that expensive, lack of hardware should not hold back any of our development. b Maintainers of big packages might benefit a lot if we can loan/donate big machines to them to make things faster. Should be an easy thing to work out - nominate such people please! We could also think of hardware for some specific tasks. We would need too much for the kernel team, but for example, wouldn’t Xorg developers win from having one graphics card from each major series from the main hardware vendors? 2 Fund developer gatherings: a Teams interested in a face to face meeting […] b More money for DebConf travel sponsorship […] Given the compared efficiency of both kinds of meetings, I think we should favor more specific meetings (like the Extramadura ones) rather than Debconf, which could end up sucking all our money given the number of participants, for little added benefit. 3 Legal costs a Pay for legal advice if needed. We have some cover for legal advice via SPI, but we may need to ask for more than the pro bono services might be able to give us. We could already make more use of the SPI legal advice. There have been quite a number of cases where we did not have enough expertise, and where we were left in the dark. 4 Marketing stuff: [Lots of nice but expensive stuff] This kind of thing should be encouraged, but maybe with a different pool of funds. I’d be all for creating a specific entity gathering funds for marketing operations if there is enough interest in it. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
Le mardi 18 août 2009 à 19:10 -0500, Manoj Srivastava a écrit : I would say it is attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself. You can’t de-humanize a discussion to the point of considering what has been written without considering who wrote it. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
Le mardi 18 août 2009 à 15:25 -0500, Manoj Srivastava a écrit : These attacks on people, as opposed to discussion of what they said, is one of the major reasons discussion threads devolve into unproductive chaos. We should be managing to police discussion better, and the first step is identifying that such a post has been made. Although there have been some spectacular cases, I don’t think that’s what is causing debian-devel to be unreadable in the general case. Just have a look at the last 10 big discussions, and try to see if they were made to drift by personal attacks. No, one of the biggest issues currently on the list is that some people are engaging into rhetorical wars and bikeshedding, instead of the technical discussions we expect. Those who reply to dozens of messages in all important threads with several hundreds of lines of nitpicking on points of no interest, or purely rhetorical arguments with no relationship to the technical issues at hand, are just polluting the list. And they can usually do that while remaining polite, which makes them sound like they are constructive. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: On cadence and collaboration
Le mardi 11 août 2009 à 02:48 +0300, Martin-Éric Racine a écrit : It is my opinion that freezing after GNOME releases (and gets into testing) would be better for Debian. This means either April or October, depending on which GNOME release we want to ship. I think that this point truly deserves to be discussed for a number of reasons. Personally, I think that releasing a new distribution right after GNOME or KDE has produced a new major version is an extremely bad idea, because the X.XX.0 release of anything tends to have too many rough edges (feature regressions, out of sync translations, etc.) that usually need further polishing via X.XX.1 and X.XX.2 releases before a new major desktop release becomes truly usable by non-technical people i.e. not requiring any workaround for some stupid regression that gets fixed later in point releases, much after the initial distribution release has started shipping with X.XX.0. Which is precisely why, during freezes, the release team lets migrate minor releases for GNOME packages, based on the strict policies upstream adopts during stable cycles. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: The Python mess in Debian
Le samedi 08 août 2009 à 16:14 +0200, Luk Claes a écrit : AFAICT, the real problem is that after unpack many python modules do not work as they use symlink hackery in the postinst. This hasn’t been an issue in real-world cases for quite some time (python-support 0.8, and an even older version for python-central). Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: The Python mess in Debian
Le samedi 08 août 2009 à 15:45 +, Philipp Kern a écrit : And no, it's not the missing byte-compilation that triggers the failure but the missing symlink farm that's usually processed by a trigger at the end of the installation run. The symlink farm is created in the postinst of each package, not by the trigger. Only missing namespace packages can trigger errors at this stage. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: On cadence and collaboration
Le mercredi 05 août 2009 à 20:25 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth a écrit : At the micro-level, across the long tail of thousands of packages, I don't expect there to be detailed coordination through a process like this. The main benefit would come from the smaller set of core infrastructure packages that generate a lot of bugs and maintenance issues. Things like: - Python - 2.6, 2.7, 3.2? Now, that's not a large percentage of the archive, but they are all things that have a lot of consequences, and differences there drive a lot of other packaging differences (especially things like Python). If you want your examples to be meaningful, please don’t invoke cases where a Canonical employee is specifically holding back development in Debian. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Questions about present Gnome and the Linux kernel versions
Le mardi 07 juillet 2009 à 22:18 +0200, Kees de Jong a écrit : So my question is pretty straightforward; are there plans to introduce these two great enhancements into the Debian project? No. We’ve decided that lenny would be our last release. And if they are when can I expect them? I've tried to run Debian Squeeze but my system broke because of the unstable packages I guess. “My system broke” is not a very helpful description of what happened. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: ia32-libs{-tools}, multiarch, squeeze
Le vendredi 03 juillet 2009 à 14:59 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit : Do you *really* want to have more reasons? I would settle for one good one. :) OK, let’s try one that you can understand. Try picturing a bridge. ia32-libs-tools is trying to cross the bridge, but there is Ganneff standing on the bridge wearing full armor, saying “None shall pass”. And ia32-libs-tools is not wearing Excalibur. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Who uses @packages.d.o mail?
Le dimanche 24 mai 2009 à 13:12 -0700, Don Armstrong a écrit : I think adding the lists.debian.org and bugs.debian.org ruleset[1] to packages.debian.org (possibly with some tweaks) will help resolve the issue with spam flowing through packages.debian.org. [The only other issue is that packages.debian.org's MX is on a restricted machine, so we'd need wider access to the mail logs to track down false positives.] BTW, would it be possible to port them to alioth as well? The amount of spam on lists.alioth.debian.org is getting really cumbersome. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' “I recommend you to learn English in hope that you in `- future understand things” -- Jörg Schilling signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Twittering on planet.d.o?
Le mardi 07 avril 2009 à 21:58 +0200, Luk Claes a écrit : I think having a very limited amount of tweets from people that do not write long blog posts is ok, though if it's not appreciated I'll remove my feed. Conceptually it’s not a bother, but it’s clear to me that Planet is not meant to handle such feeds correctly. Either Planet should be made to display them better, or another aggregation channel could be setup for microblogging. -- .''`. Debian 5.0 Lenny has been released! : :' : `. `' Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told `-me that if you don't install Lenny, he'd melt your brain. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Possible GR: pre-proposal participation by DDs [strawpoll]
Le mercredi 07 janvier 2009 à 13:05 +, MJ Ray a écrit : It's hard to prove that a group is ignoring something, but disproof is simple: please could all DDs who watch pre-proposal discussions of possible GRs please email mjr-possiblegr at debian.org. I'll count with from -f possiblegr.mbox | wc -l in a week or so, after filtering out any emails from non-DDs. WTF are you trying to prove? “Send me email otherwise that means I’m right!” Can’t you tolerate that most DDs don’t have the time to read the logorrhoea of a handful of people on the lists? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich
Le mercredi 26 novembre 2008 à 09:39 +, Jurij Smakov a écrit : Sorry, but I'm with Wolfgang on this one. I'm pretty sure that this standard practice is illegal in most of EU countries (judging by existence of EU directive 2000/78/EC) Bullshit. Most jobs in public administrations have a legal age limit, and that’s not violating EU directives. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re-thinking Debian membership
Le samedi 25 octobre 2008 à 01:12 -0500, Manoj Srivastava a écrit : One of the issues I have with this proposal is that there seems to be, by design, absolutely no consideration about skill levels or quality of developers. I'll concede that the current process might not do a great job of assessing quality of contribution, but it tries. The new process does not seem to have any such effort. On the contrary, peer review is the only process we have today that correctly asses quality. Require DD endorsement to be justified, as well as the veto, and you’ll get a picture of the skills of the candidate. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Developer Status
Le vendredi 24 octobre 2008 à 15:17 +0200, Wouter Verhelst a écrit : On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 10:32:34AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: We have a process for this kind of changes, it’s call DEPs. Why didn’t you start this discussion as a DEP instead? Because Debian is not Python? AFAIK there's no *requirement* to make proposals in any particular way. I thought the project was mature enough to use appropriate processes even when they are not written in stone, but if you really want to, I can write a constitutional amendment formalizing DEPs. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re-thinking Debian membership
Le vendredi 24 octobre 2008 à 13:49 +0200, Patrick Schoenfeld a écrit : and where is the difference? Still, every DD would be able to kick out every other DD of the keyring. Obvious the only protection against abuse is that it should be public. Every DD is already able to upload a package that does rm -rf /. If we can allow someone to do that on every developer’s machine and not to add or remove people to the keyring, I’m much interested in the reason why. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re-thinking Debian membership
Le vendredi 24 octobre 2008 à 11:44 +0300, Lars Wirzenius a écrit : I think we should go in the opposite direction: massively simplify the whole membership thing. In a single word: yes. We need something simple and efficient. I agree with pretty much everything you propose, although I think some minor things can be tweaked. Proposal * People should be allowed to join Debian when there is reasonably wide-spread consensus that they agree with the project's goals, are committed to working on those goals, and are trustworthy. The best way to determine this is to have some number of people endorse a candidate. However, there should not be too much opposition to a candidate, either. Concrete proposal: max(Q, 20) endorsements, two existing members together can veto. The veto can be done anonymously via the Debian Account Manager to avoid peer pressure to not veto. The DAM only counts the endorsements and vetos, and does not make judgement calls. All endorsements and vetos must happen within 30 days. I don’t think there is much peer pressure to not veto, but making them anonymous is not a big deal. The important thing is that a veto must be motivated; otherwise, two project members could block the whole process. * Membership in the project gives both voting and upload rights. * Membership ends 24 months after they're given, or after the latest participation in a vote arranged by the project's Secretary. Members may retire themselves earlier, of course. I’d add counting uploads as well as votes, while making the process quicker. 12 months seems more than enough, maybe even 6. As long as you can easily become a member again later, that’s fine. * Members may be expelled via the normal General Resolution process, with a simple majority. Ftpmasters may temporarily limit upload rights in an emergency. * Membership is controlled via GnuPG keyrings, primarily maintained by the Debian Account Manager. The keyrings shall be maintained in a way that allows any member to change them, and that is fully transparent to the members in general, and that further makes it easy to undo mistakes. I think this is a key change, and one that makes much sense. As we expect the same level of trust from the keyring maintainer as from other maintainers, the best thing is to simply maintain the keyring like any other package. No more waiting for months because you revoked your key. No more waiting for months after being accepted. If the keyring maintainer doesn’t have time, a NMU is fine. Thanks for the straightforward proposal, this is the kind of change that we need to be more efficient and to bring back the fun. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re-thinking Debian membership
Le vendredi 24 octobre 2008 à 17:59 +0200, Josselin Mouette a écrit : Concrete proposal: max(Q, 20) endorsements, two existing members together can veto. The veto can be done anonymously via the Debian Account Manager to avoid peer pressure to not veto. The DAM only counts the endorsements and vetos, and does not make judgement calls. All endorsements and vetos must happen within 30 days. Another minor remark: Q can be quite a large number of endorsements for someone who wants to work on a confidential part of the archive and as such is not in contact with many other developers. It could be made to something like 5 or 10, with the additional requirement to have made a number of useful contributions for the project (uploads, commits, bug fixes…) -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Developer Status
Le jeudi 23 octobre 2008 à 10:20 +0200, Joerg Jaspert a écrit : It is - a start of the discussion, using d-d-a on purpose to reach everyone in something that more or less touches all of us, and - a new policy to get implemented some time soon, with whatever sensible changes might come out of this thread We have a process for this kind of changes, it’s call DEPs. Why didn’t you start this discussion as a DEP instead? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Developer Status
Le jeudi 23 octobre 2008 à 10:37 +0200, Pierre Habouzit a écrit : So when the *constitution* gives him the right to do what he just did (yeah, sadly he can and we have to be 2:1 to overrule that yeah), it's completely against the nature of Debian, and the spirit of the constitution. Only overriding the TC needs a 2:1 majority. For delegate decisions, that’s only a standard majority. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: dopewars do we need such a game in debian distribution?
Le mercredi 27 février 2008 à 15:00 +0100, Christof Adams a écrit : Please think over it and remove this package and others with comparable content. You might find other packages which deserve your time better. I agree. We should for example remove bible-kjv, which contains shocking texts recommending to lapidate people. Given the casualties still caused by lapidation and the seriousness of this human rights violation, we should remove this package from the archive. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring
Hi, Le samedi 24 novembre 2007 à 10:45 +0900, Charles Plessy a écrit : there is a famous saying: The one who never does mistakes usually never does anything. We all do mistakes, but this is not about a mistake. This is about signing and uploading a blatantly broken package that should have been thrown to the trash after only a few seconds of analysis. We need a minimum level of trust in the Debian developers, and I think this minimum must be above that. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring
Hi, Le mercredi 21 novembre 2007 à 01:02 +, Joey Hess a écrit : With the upload of debian-maintainers version 1.2, the following changes to the keyring have been made: In the future, it would be nice if these mails could also specify which packages the DMs are allowed to upload. Thanks, -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Making Debian work: a question of trust indeed
Le mercredi 21 novembre 2007 à 11:21 +0100, Martin Schulze a écrit : I did not. What you consider important may not important to others. And obviously some of the core teams don't consider as important some things that are critical for the rest of the project. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring
Le mercredi 21 novembre 2007 à 11:35 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit : In the future, it would be nice if these mails could also specify which packages the DMs are allowed to upload. Ah, don't worry, I was just explained how the things work. I knew this DM thing was broken, but I hadn't understood yet the point of cluelessness it required to be designed. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Bits from the DPL: DSA and a few other things
Hi, Le samedi 03 novembre 2007 à 17:20 +0100, Frans Pop a écrit : This is of course very, very nice and my congratulations to Peter. However, you must excuse me for not sharing your enthusiasm, at least not to the extend you seem to be feeling it. Please let people place their enthusiasm in whatever they feel. Not everyone can share the current enthusiasm on d-private. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: message from Sven Luther
Le samedi 30 juin 2007 à 10:58 +0100, MJ Ray a écrit : Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le vendredi 29 juin 2007 à 15:51 +0200, Robert Millan a écrit : Sven also told me that if nobody will forward it, he will make it by the slashdot way. We don't negociate with terrorists. That's daft. If you leave people with no outlet, they will explode and it will be messy. Anyway, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. When they are being reasonable enough for you, reward them with negotiation and encourage them to be more reasonable. Otherwise, shut them down as much as possible and hope the explosions will be seen as unreasonable, but don't try to spin the people as unreasonable, else the backlash makes it less likely to be seen that way. My Opinion Only, as ever. I have spent a lot of time trying to help Sven Luther negociate, but that was at times where he *was* reasonable. Not threatening to make it by the slashdot way. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Le jeudi 07 juin 2007 à 14:47 +0200, Patrick Frank a écrit : And thats why the clear words in direction of Sam Hocevar, who did parts of his electoral campaign on costs of Sven Luther. And no, Kalle Kivimaa, I dont need proof in form of a web cache that shows the old content of sam2007.zoy.org to be able to say that. You certainly don't need anything to be able to say that, but repeating a lie does only make it true in your own mind. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile.
Re: What do Open Source Projects need? - part 3
Le vendredi 08 juin 2007 à 17:52 +0200, Patrick Frank a écrit : P.S.: Mark Shuttleworth, you have all my sympathy for recognizing the weakness of the Debian Project early enough to do it better. (/me waits for Matt Zimmerman to show up magically) -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile.
Re: Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: Just leave Debian. Why should i ? Just because debian is unable tyo recognize it has behaved badly in this matter, and make amends ? Yes. Obviously the Debian project isn't worthy of your contributions. Just leave Debian, like that, and who will give me back all those years and uncountable hours i have sacrificed to debian ? Or the actual money and time and equipement i have given to debian ? No one will ever give it back. That's the point of *giving* to a volunteer project. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther wrote: Ok, then we come back to the problem of Frans, right, who found it totally unacceptable that i dared to present myself as DPL, and chose to hurry to search expulsion supporters to punish me for it ? Even though my DPL candidacy had nothing to do with him, but rather because i saw problems in debian and, as i was told by astronut, candidating as DPL was a way to do something about it. Did they fear so much an honest DPL campaign, and what the result of the vote would have been ? Sven, let me ask you something. Do you really feel you stood a single chance to be elected as DPL? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Le mardi 29 mai 2007 à 17:32 +0200, Sven Luther a écrit : Sven, let me ask you something. Do you really feel you stood a single chance to be elected as DPL? Nope Good. Now will you stop arguing your expulsion was requested because of your candidacy? Now, it is my turn to ask you something. Do you really feel that the timing of the expulsion request can be seen as anything but shadowy dealings and mafioso politics ? I am ver very curious about this. Yes, it can be seen as many other things. Saddened, Snoring, -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Le mardi 29 mai 2007 à 17:44 +0200, Sven Luther a écrit : Can you tell me a single other reason which justified that my expulsion was requested on february 7 or so ? For example, that could be because of the fourth report of the IPCC - delivered on February 2 - which confirmed the human cause of the global climate changes. Some people may have concluded that your level of trolling is heavily responsible for global warming and can therefore not be accepted in Debian. I am really curious ? If by curious you mean strange, you definitely are. Now, it is my turn to ask you something. Do you really feel that the timing of the expulsion request can be seen as anything but shadowy dealings and mafioso politics ? I am ver very curious about this. Yes, it can be seen as many other things. Please give me an example of those many things it can be seen as ? It highly depends on the current tequila level. On a Friday evening, it can be seen as a green polka-dot walrus. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Le mardi 29 mai 2007 à 17:58 +0200, Sven Luther a écrit : Ok, so you have really no idea and are just trolling ? Yes, definitely. I think Debian should remain a place of shadowy dealings and mafioso politics. Therefore I don't want you to come and fix that. It highly depends on the current tequila level. On a Friday evening, it can be seen as a green polka-dot walrus. Yeah, like the theory that this was all a manipulation by Joerg Jaspert to show Anthony Towns in a bad light in the DPL election, right ? Mmm, wait, where did i hear this one ? I don't know. The theory I heard was that it was all a manipulation of the Illuminati to protect the Earth from a terrible alien invasion by tricking those who are spying debian-private (thanks to DDs using gmail) into thinking we are a too dangerous species for them. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re: notable Debian contributions in 2006
Joerg Schilling wrote: - the fork does not work decently and thus annoyes them This is probably the funniest quote of the whole discussion. Thanks for making my day. BTW, who said flamewars are a nuisance to the Debian project? I've never seen developers as united as when Mr Schilling is around. With a few more people like him we would probably be always working together. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Bits from the DPL: DSA and buildds and DAM, oh my!
Anthony Towns wrote: I've been delaying this mail for a while now Is it purely coincidental that it was sent the same day as your nomination for the DPL elections? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: BREAKING NEWS: Debian developers aren't trusted
Le vendredi 16 février 2007 à 01:27 +1000, Anthony Towns a écrit : (If there's something more than the general comments Frank made, I'm still not seeing it. TTBOMK, the non-free and experimental builds aren't at all integrated with the buildd.d.o stuff, and there's been no particular interest in changing that. If that's not the case, it's probably worth talking about sometime) I'm sure people are eager to see this working alternate buildd network fall into the hands of those who run the official one with so much success. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Explications needed...
Le jeudi 28 décembre 2006 à 16:45 -0800, Steve Langasek a écrit : So first of all, neither the debian-arm list, nor the #debian-arm channel, nor his blog are a communication medium that's guaranteed to reach the arm buildd maintainer *or* the buildd local admins. For the former, you want [EMAIL PROTECTED]; for the latter, there is no list of contacts other than the buildd maintainer, since these may change semi-frequently and most buildd changes need to be coordinated with the buildd maintainer anyway. An arm buildd maintainer not reading [EMAIL PROTECTED] is simply not doing his job as buildd maintainer. You can't pretend to be the one handling builds for the whole archive while not following discussions around problems specific to this architecture. Would you trust a release manager who wouldn't be reading debian-release? If he only uploads packages that haven't been built by the autobuilders, or failed to build on the autobuilders, we still have the problem that there is no single party who can account for the configuration of all the buildds that were used for uploading packages, because there has been no coordination -- so building these packages on rogue autobuilders is a poor predictor of whether the autobuilders will be able to build them again later when a security update is needed. Indeed, in the case of Aurelien's buildds, we have the additional variable of using emulated arm systems -- I don't know what ARM instruction set qemu emulates, and I don't know who else among the ARM porters knows, maybe it's been discussed and maybe it hasn't, but it's definitely another variable that contributes to these buildds being a poor predictor for the official autobuilders. Please, let's be consistent. How is it any different to the sourceful upload case? In fact, I trust Aurélien's buildd much more than my own sourceful uploads; last month I have broken an amd64 package by not building it within the right chroot, while this cannot happen with his buildd using the same software setup as the official buildd network. Uploading packages like this is an expedient fix that does nothing to help, and possibly quite a bit to hinder, long-term support for etch. We want to fix autobuilder problems, not cover them up. Then let's fix them, now. For example, by making Aurélien an arm buildd maintainer. Unless you want etch to be delayed for 6 months because of missing buildd infrastructure, but things like that could never happen, could they? -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: Re: Debian Etch Stable.
Anthony Towns wrote: As far as any hypothetical PR is concerned, vocal critics of the Dunc-Tank procedure declined to contribute any effort to getting the release out sooner, even to demonstrate how effective Debian can be in the absence of paid work seems like it would be entirely sufficient. AJ, thanks. I thought I'd help a bit with the release now the fuck-tank madness is over, but you've just convinced me to make my own get some sleep experiment last longer. Thank you so much for keeping me relaxed. -- Josselin Mouette/\./\ Do you have any more insane proposals for me? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal: The DFSG do not require source code for data, including firmware
Le mercredi 23 août 2006 à 17:38 +1000, Anthony Towns a écrit : Note that while Peter is currently in the n-m queue (on hold pending further response to TS checks apparently), he's not yet a developer, and his expectations shouldn't be inferred to be those of the developers as a whole. And again, contempt before discussion. If you don't want the debate to be public, you should ask the rules to be changed so that they are held on a moderated mailing list. Otherwise, the rule is that anyone is free to contribute to the discussion. You are the project leader, and as such your are partly responsible for the image of the project. I don't want (and I hope I'm not the only one) the project to be associated with your deliberately obnoxious behaviour. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom
Re: Proposal: The DFSG do not require source code for data, including firmware
Le mercredi 23 août 2006 à 19:19 +1000, Anthony Towns a écrit : If you believe a comment on a list has no merit, it's very easy to deal with it: just ignore it, and go on discussing the ideas that are worth discussing. Why would I do that, when you are taking the opposite way? When you believe a commend on a list has no merit, you explicitly ask other people to ignore it, based on a stupid DD/non-DD segregation instead of the merits of the comment. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom
Re: For those who care about their packages in Ubuntu
Le mardi 17 janvier 2006 à 12:46 -0600, Adam Heath a écrit : On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, Anthony Towns wrote: What I find very dissapointing is that mdz asked on debian-devel twice for a decision from debian how ubuntu should handle the maintainer Field without any luck: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00678.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/05/msg00260.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/01/msg00966.html Debian developers set the Maintainer field to themselves(or a team), when they upload to Debian. The upstream author is only mentioned in the copyright file. Ubuntu should do something similiar. Set the Maintainer field to someone from their group, and mention debian in the copyright(or other appropriate place). Even better, they could stop crediting themselves for changes initiated by Debian developers. http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news/2005-December/33.html -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
