Re: Suggestion for Debian 13: A Openbox enviornment that would work perfect in Debian
On 2024-01-16 20:59, Arnaud Rebillout wrote: On 17/01/2024 07:21, OB wrote: First, thanks for all you've done over the decades. Debian is superior in every shape and form. Now to my suggestion, I've recently talked to some friends of mine about the tiling window manager Openbox which we all love and our convo ended up being about what Debian offers in regards to the DEs on installation and that we would all like to see a Openbox edition. I used Openbox (and Crunchbang) and really liked it, but that was like... 10 years ago? As far as I know, Openbox has been abandoned for a long time now, as you can see: - official news page: http://openbox.org/wiki/Openbox:News - original repo: https://github.com/danakj/openbox (last commit 9 years ago) - what Debian packages: https://github.com/Mikachu/openbox (last commit 6 years ago) I don't think anyone would work on a Debian edition based on a dead project. However, I see that someone still maintains the package in Debian, I added them in CC in case they want to comment. Best, Arnaud I'm still an Openbox user and I like it very much. Sadly, Xorg is slowly dying and I feel it's time to move on and start thinking of it as deprecated software. labwc (a wayland DE heavily inspired by Openbox) has been recently packaged in Debian by Birger Schacht and is what I'm intending to migrate to. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Reimbursement rules for people traveling to a BSP
On 2023-01-22 09 h 27, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:37:41AM +0100, Daniel Lange wrote: Am 21.01.23 um 22:34 schrieb Louis-Philippe Véronneau: It used to be one could get an "automatic" (by this I mean, without having to ask for pre-approval) budget of up to 100 USD for traveling to a BSP. That process has been suspended by . ...which has been revoked by the current DPL in https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/08/msg00050.html So, as I understand it, the (semi-)automatic 100USD for basic BSP reimbursement as started by Lamb is still valid. Bests, -- Tiago Thanks a lot for digging through the list for me, I knew my memory wasn't failing me, but I didn't have to heart to do this myself :) I've updated the wiki accordingly. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ OpenPGP_0xE1E5457C8BAD4113.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Reimbursement rules for people traveling to a BSP
Hello! The BSP season is upon us (we're currently busy organising one in Montréal ~ end of February) and I've got a question with regards to the reimbursement rules for people traveling to such an event. It used to be one could get an "automatic" (by this I mean, without having to ask for pre-approval) budget of up to 100 USD for traveling to a BSP. I think this was a great way to spend our money, foster local communities and get more RC bugs fixed faster :) Is this still the case? If so, can we add this explicitly to the "How to host a BSP" wiki page? Cheers, [1]: https://wiki.debian.org/HostingBSP -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ OpenPGP_0xE1E5457C8BAD4113.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 2022-06-27 13 h 43, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) >> I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 > >> Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default >> of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost >> insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required >> to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of >> course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed >> with receipts. +1 Thanks for thinking about these issues and making attendance to DebConf easier :) -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: We need to define a path for Debian to climate neutrality
On 2022-04-08 14 h 35, Julian Andres Klode wrote:> I think individual travel to DebConf and similar events is somewhat> out of our control, as is the personal behavior of individual> submitters. I'm not an expert on estimating CO2 output, but I'm pretty sure DebConf is our largest contribution to CO2 emissions, mainly because of air travel. The question I've been asking myself these past few years is: "Are in-person DebConfs worth it?" I think the answer is very clearly yes. I don't think Debian would be as successful if it were not for DebConf. It's a very special time of the year and it bolsters collaboration and helps us fix hard problems. Even though Debian is not perfect, I believe our project offers a glimpse of a different future, a viable alternative where individuals and collectives have control over the technology they use. This to me is part of the solution to climate change. To quote Serge Latouche -- a very influential proponent of degrowth -- I feel Debian is necessary to helps us « décoloniser l'imaginaire » (decolonize the way we imagine things). As such, I'm ready to defend the fact we should still continue to hold DebConfs in person around the world each year. Cheers, -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Banning Norbert Preining from planet.d.o
On 2022-03-23 10 h 14, Dominik George wrote:
> While I agree that Jonathan has abused his powers and should not have removed
> anyone from planet on his own, your argumentation is toxic in itself.
We had this discussion a while ago when something similar happened on
Planet: every DD can remove a blog from Planet.
Rule 6 says [1]:
"Posts that are syndicated on Planet Debian that violate our community
standards may result in removal of the feed. When a feed is removed, the
committer must state the reason for removal, either in a commit message
or in the edited file (be mindful of the fact that the contents of
commit messages cannot be expunged later; it is best to avoid specific
details). If unsure, please contact the planet administrators instead of
re-adding a feed yourself."
There's no link between Jonathan being the current DPL ("has abused his
powers") and his ability to remove someone from Planet. Anyone of us
could've done so.
[1]: https://wiki.debian.org/PlanetDebian#What_Can_I_Post_On_Planet
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org
⠈⠳⣄
Re: collaboration with Gitlab (was: Debian and GitLab Open Source Partnership)
On 2021-07-26 17 h 55, Laura Arjona Reina wrote: > Hi > > El 26/7/21 a las 23:04, Louis-Philippe Véronneau escribió: >> On 2021-07-26 01 h 50, Alexander Wirt wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:59:26PM +0200, Geert Stappers wrote: >>>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 06:19:37PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: >>>>> Donald Norwood writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Debian and GitLab have been in discussion regarding an Open Source >>>>>> Partnership toward which we will jointly produce mutual promotions, >>>>>> shared stories, and announcements using both organizations press and/or >>>>>> publicity channels. >>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Out of the blue, without any more context and content, >>>> >>>> ??? >>>> >>>> "Debian" and "Gitlab" are speaking with each other >>>> since the very start of "Salsa". >>>> >>>> >>>>> I am not sure to be happy with this news. >>>> >>>> To me is the news that "press" and "marketing" are more involved. >>>> Because I assume good faith, I allow meself to focus on other stuff >>>> in (Debian) life. >>>> >>>> >>>>> To me, such a partnership is something quite stronger than sponsorship >>>>> and I'd be a bit ill-at-ease with it being done without the whole Debian >>>>> Members being consulted. >>>> >>>> Yes, a DD is allowed to represent the project. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Last but not least, what kind of data would be shared regarding how we >>>>> use gitlab in Debian? >>>> >>>> Please give the (humble) Salsa admins time to elaborate. >>>> I have no insight information about "the data", >>>> but imagine (dull??) statistics on accounts, active accounts, projects, >>>> active projects. >>>> I do trust my fellow Debian Developers to deal wisely with it. >>>> For (gory??) details I recomment to join the Salsa admin team. >>> >>> To be honest - and to my suprise - we weren't involved in this >>> discussions. We don't share any personal data and we won't do that. >>> We share rough numbers (numbers of projects, users, >>> groups, storage used), but we also do that regulary in talks (at least >>> when there were real conferences). >>> >>> Alex - Salsa Admim >> I was under the assumption the Salsa Team would somehow benefit from >> this partnership in some way (technical help, extra resources, etc.), >> but I guess it's not the case. Thanks for clarifying. >> >> I'm not sure I understand what Debian has to gain from this "Partnership". >> >> More media exposure? I don't think we really need it: the Publicity Team >> was already doing a great job. >> >> More money? Gitlab is a silver sponsor for DebConf21, but so are ARM, >> Ubuntu, HRT, Two Sigma and Globo. >> > > I think we have a misunderstanding here. It's not a partnership between > Debian and Gitlab, at least not from my point of view (and I'm member of the > Debian partners team). > They sponsor DebConf21 at Silver level and Debian is listed as "Open Source > Partner" in GitLab Commit 2021 (their conference). From this "partnership" > (we used their word, probably we shouldn't have done it), we're publishing a > micronews, and we're offered a virtual booth at their conference, that will > happen if people works on it, as usual. > > Apart from that, but related, GitLab contacted the DPL to see if we can share > some "publicity" work; they are interested in publishing an article about how > Debian uses Gitlab. We'll try to learn a bit more about their specific plans, > our focus is to write it together so the Debian needs and perspective are on > it (how we use their free software flavour, mention things that could help us > as community, etc.). The idea is to gather the info already published (on > mailing list, talks) about Salsa and Salsa CI and contact these teams to get > their views and requests, if any, to transmit them to GitLab (wether they > appear in the article or not). This work has not started yet. > > That's all. There is no formal partnership (Gitlab is not listed in > www.debian.org/partners). The partners@ alias is CC'ed in the conversations > to have the record of how the story started, for the case a partnership would > be on the table in the future (we would need a longer collaboration record, > also including other kind of support from their side at least). > > Kind regards, > Thanks for the clarification, this makes much more sense to me now. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian and GitLab Open Source Partnership
On 2021-07-26 01 h 50, Alexander Wirt wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:59:26PM +0200, Geert Stappers wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 06:19:37PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: >>> Donald Norwood writes: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Debian and GitLab have been in discussion regarding an Open Source >>>> Partnership toward which we will jointly produce mutual promotions, >>>> shared stories, and announcements using both organizations press and/or >>>> publicity channels. >> ... >>>> >>> >>> Out of the blue, without any more context and content, >> >> ??? >> >> "Debian" and "Gitlab" are speaking with each other >> since the very start of "Salsa". >> >> >>> I am not sure to be happy with this news. >> >> To me is the news that "press" and "marketing" are more involved. >> Because I assume good faith, I allow meself to focus on other stuff >> in (Debian) life. >> >> >>> To me, such a partnership is something quite stronger than sponsorship >>> and I'd be a bit ill-at-ease with it being done without the whole Debian >>> Members being consulted. >> >> Yes, a DD is allowed to represent the project. >> >> >>> Last but not least, what kind of data would be shared regarding how we >>> use gitlab in Debian? >> >> Please give the (humble) Salsa admins time to elaborate. >> I have no insight information about "the data", >> but imagine (dull??) statistics on accounts, active accounts, projects, >> active projects. >> I do trust my fellow Debian Developers to deal wisely with it. >> For (gory??) details I recomment to join the Salsa admin team. > > To be honest - and to my suprise - we weren't involved in this > discussions. We don't share any personal data and we won't do that. > We share rough numbers (numbers of projects, users, > groups, storage used), but we also do that regulary in talks (at least > when there were real conferences). > > Alex - Salsa Admim I was under the assumption the Salsa Team would somehow benefit from this partnership in some way (technical help, extra resources, etc.), but I guess it's not the case. Thanks for clarifying. I'm not sure I understand what Debian has to gain from this "Partnership". More media exposure? I don't think we really need it: the Publicity Team was already doing a great job. More money? Gitlab is a silver sponsor for DebConf21, but so are ARM, Ubuntu, HRT, Two Sigma and Globo. Although I'm happy Gitlab the git forge exists, Gitlab the enterprise (Gitlab BV) is a for-profit, venture-capital backed entity. If we're OK partnering with them for more exposure [1], why are we not partnering with other similar enterprises? DSA has been using Puppet forever to maintain their infrastructure. Why not strike a partnership with them? If anything, I think this muddies Debian's image more than promotes it. Had Gitlab BV been a non-profit, I don't think this would've been a problem to me. :( [1]: Clearly this is rhetorical, I'm not. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Sponsoring the Debian Community/Project
On 2021-03-04 12 h 02, Felix Lechner wrote: > 3. Donate equipment, services or money to the project. [1] Also note that some organisations choose to give back by giving Debian Developers and Debian Maintainers certain benefits: https://wiki.debian.org/MemberBenefits -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: question - contact to web dev of debian website
Hi George, You can reach the web team on their mailing list at debian-...@lists.debian.org or on IRC on the #debian-www channel, on OFTC. If you want to have a look at the current code for debian.org, it's hosted here [1]. Cheers, [1]: https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ On 2020-12-19 08 h 55, George Suba wrote: > Dear all, > > I did read somewhere on net about new site and since then (today) I > visited the debian.org site. I think I can help with it or at least I > could provide some valuable directions. > > ( I use bash, responsive frameworks like bootstrap, apache, pure html, > markdown and git ) > > - Can someone point me to the right contact/s to web dev team please? > many thanks. > OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Results of the salsa sprint
On 2020-12-01 13 h 16, Bastian Blank wrote: > Hi Steve > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 03:53:24PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: >> Have people been pushing the other way - to remove the suffix? Just >> curious. > > That was me. It's because of the maintenance overhead. That name > restriction isn't a feature of upstream GitLab. It requires to function > - the signup web interface and > - some scary patches to GitLb, > And I still know some places where it just breaks stuff. > > So the question is: does the burden of maintaining those parts and > verifying that they actually work outweigh the burden that someone might > rename groups for fun? I also like the -team namespace, but I don't think it's worth enforcing it if that's so much work. IMO this can totally become a "best practice" guideline when creating a new team on Salsa. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Long email threads aren't fun for anyone, but Debian events usually are
We all decided to take a break from the Debian mailing lists not to stir up unnecessary flames. Sorry if we stayed silent for a while. So here's a few things we wanted to make clear: 1. We don't have anything against the nice folks organising DC20 and we wish them the best. None of us ever had any ill thoughts regarding fellow volunteers organising DebConf20. Many of us helped organise other DebConfs and we are well aware hosting a DebConf requires a significant amount of energy and passion. We value that *a lot*. Again: we wish DC20 organisers and attendees a great conference and are looking forward to continue working on Debian and related projects with you all. 2. Our conference is first and foremost about Debian and Free Software. Solidarity with the Palestinian people and with those who feel unable to attend DebConf20 due to various reasons has surely been a motivating factor for organising this conference. We have absolutely no problem stating that publicly. Yet, this conference is first and foremost about Debian and Free Software. Therefore, while it's not unlikely we'll have a session for those interested to discuss topics related to FOSS in conflict zones, we'll mostly be working on squashing bugs and enjoying talks on neat Debian/FOSS topics given by our peers (CfP to be sent soonish). 3. Coming to the conference doesn't mean you are pro-BDS. There is also a plurality of viewpoints within the orga team about this subject and that is definitely not an issue. So, if you are still wondering why you might want to join miniDC Montreal 2020, here are a few reasons: * As usual, you want to work on improving Debian surrounded by fellow developers and contributors. * Montreal is close to where you live. * Montreal is not that close, but you miss us! * Montreal is a lovely city during the summer and you want to enjoy it. * Montreal has a large craft beer selection and you'd like to participate in the pub crawl pollo's organising (registrations not yet open). * You really need a poutine fix and can't find squeaky cheese where you live. * Raccoons, of course. Finally, as stated in our announcement message, everyone who wants to attend miniDebConf Montreal 2020 is welcome to do so (please register [1]). As for all DebConf and Debian events, we'll be working hard on making sure the DebConf Code of Conduct [2] and the Debian Code of Conduct [3] are upheld by everyone participating. Hope this helps clear the air, [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/ca/2020/MiniDebConfMontreal/Registration [2] http://debconf.org/codeofconduct.shtml [3] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct Love, -- the miniDebConf Montreal 2020 orga team signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: MiniDebCamp 2021 pre-FOSDEM?
On 20-01-31 12 h 57, Holger Levsen wrote: > And btw, Debian could also give some money to HSBXL. This time I was > very happy that $random_DDs_employer is willing to pay 3*50 EUR > attendence fee to HSBXL but IMHO Debian could also just donate > $some_money to HSBXL. (And you can all still put money in the fridge, > heating costs money.) I wasn't there for the miniconf, but I do agree it would be nice for Debian to give some money (more than a symbolic sum, but not tons of it) to nice collectives and spaces who host Debian events for free :) It helps those communities thrive and they often don't have tons of cash lying around. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: BSP Reimbursements
On 19-10-07 18 h 13, Sam Hartman wrote: >>>>>> "Louis-Philippe" == Louis-Philippe Véronneau writes: > Louis-Philippe> I've taken part in organising sprints, miniconfs, > Louis-Philippe> DebConfs and BSPs before and although I salute the > Louis-Philippe> effort to make the BSP reimbursement process easier > Louis-Philippe> for everyone, I think we should instead work on a > Louis-Philippe> common set of solutions for all Debian-related > Louis-Philippe> reimbursements. > > This sounds like a great project, but it's well beyond the scope of > anything I'm interested in working on during my term. > > Someone else could drive the effort but I won't have energy beyond > following the discussion and giving a couple of comments. > > Do you want to block the current BSP question on a broader solution? That's not my intention no. If we decide not to work on these issues, then IMHO the 'slightly better documented version of the previous process' mentioned by tbm and tiago and you is a better option than asking organisers to take care of this. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: BSP Reimbursements
On 19-10-02 10 h 43, Sam Hartman wrote: > > TL;DR: Do we want BSP organizers to take on the responsibility of > batching together travel reimbursement requests. > > HI. A while back, I suspended the automatic approval of reimbursements > for attending BSPs. You can still ask for approval for attending a > BSP, you can't just send me a reimbursement request with no approval. > > We had a bit of discussion about how things ought to/might work here. > Holger proposed that it would make more sense for the people running > BSPs to batch approvals kind of like we do for sprints and > mini-DebConfs. > > If we want to do things that way, no action is required on my part. I > am very willing to approve such budgets, and even to amend such budgets > if it looks like more people are coming. But I do actually want to see > them ahead of time, just so I know what's going on. > > So, if we're generally happy with BSP organizers putting together a > travel budget and handling who will get reimbursed, then I think the > next step is to write up how to do that on the wiki. > I'd appreciate it if someone would volunteer to do that. > If you get text together, please drop treasu...@debian.org a note asking > for review (that also reaches me). > > Asking BSP organizers to help with this is great from the DPL side. > The only concern is if it pushes the effort involved in organizing a > BSP up too much so people don't want to do it. > > If that ends up being the case I'm happy with some sort of automatic > approval process for DDs attending BSPs (and easy approval for other > contributors when that makes sense). > But let's figure out if we want BSP organizers to handle this first. I've taken part in organising sprints, miniconfs, DebConfs and BSPs before and although I salute the effort to make the BSP reimbursement process easier for everyone, I think we should instead work on a common set of solutions for all Debian-related reimbursements. I don't really see why we should have 4 different processes for BSPs, miniconfs, sprints and DebConfs. Here are a few problems I've met before: 1. Dealing with multiple TOs When dealing with multiple TOs, the main problem I see is the lack of clear communication between TOs, the DPL and the organisers. 1.1 How is Debian France to know if person X has been reimbursed by SPI for the same approved expenses? 1.2 When the DPL approves a group budget and people ask to be reimbursed by different TOs, how should we handle individual requests? Should the "plus or minus 10%" be applied to individual requests or to the group budget? I think the reimbursement process should make clear who is to be reimbursed by whom and the DPL-signed email that approves expenses should also specify this information. 2. Lack of clear deadlines It's a PITA for organisers and TOs when people take a very long time to send their reimbursement requests. We should establish clear deadlines for the reimbursement process (3 months max after the event?). Life happens and there can be individual exceptions, but having clear deadlines creates good incentives. 3. Lack of agreement on what is reimbursed As pointed by others in this thread, we don't have clear guideline on: * visa costs * food during travel * food during the event * accommodation At the moment, it highly depends on the DPL in place and what people ask for. 4. Different tools used to keep track of shit All the TOs use different systems to keep track of reimbursement requests. To a certain level, that's fine, but it complicates everyone's life. What I would like to see deployed is a tool similar to nm.debian.org (a clear frontend for a process that is mainly email-based) that would track the different steps of a reimbursement request. One could see what the steps for a particular reimbursement request are (different TOs ask for different documents) and easily check the status of the request. Most of all, TOs could see who's supposed to reimburse who, what has been reimbursed by other TOs when, etc. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian and Non-Free Services
On 19-09-12 20 h 35, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > On September 12, 2019 5:30:24 PM UTC, Sam Hartman wrote: >> >> I'm trying to move a thread from -devel. >> >> Ian Jackson responded [1] to part of a consensus discussion on Git >> recommendations. I had said that I think we recommend against the use >> of non-free services like Github but do not forbid their use. >> Ian disagreed with this recommendation. >> >> I responded [2] noting that around 7% of the packages with a vcs-git in >> unstable are hosted on Github. >> >> Ian said [3] that he was confident if we had a GR to forbid use of >> services >> like Github it would pass. >> >> He proposed the following text for such a GR. >> >> I think such a discussion is better on -project. >> >> [1]: >> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/23927.51367.848949.15...@chiark.greenend.org.uk >> [2]: >> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/tslwoedy93e.fsf...@suchdamage.org >> [3]: >> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/23930.17192.131171.455...@chiark.greenend.org.uk >> >> >> Subject: Free Software Needs Free Tools >> >> No Debian contributor should be expected or encouraged, when working >> to improve Debian, to use non-free tools. This includes proprietary >> web services. We will ensure this, insofar as it is within Debian's >> collective control. >> >> For example, Vcs-Git fields in source packages must not refer to >> proprietary git code management systems. Non-Debian services are >> acceptable here so long as they are principally Free Software. >> >> We encourage all our upstreams to use Free/Libre tools. >> >> We recognise that metadata in Debian which describes the behaviour >> of those outside our community, for example fields which refer to >> upstream source management systems, may (in order to be accurate) >> still need to refer to proprietary systems. > > It's based on a false premise. No one is forced to use any VCS to maintain > Debian packages. If you don't want to talk to GitHub, send a patch to the BTS While I do sympathise with the idea of not having Debian package on Github, I have to agree with Scott here. I think I would end up voting against such a GR because the use of Git isn't mandatory. If we already had a GR enforcing the use of Git, I think it would only make sense to make the use of salsa.debian.org mandatory. It seems we aren't there yet though. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Accessibility of Ledger Reports
On 19-06-10 10 h 44, Sam Hartman wrote: > > Hi. > An issue came up processing a debconf budget amendment. > Our community uses ledger a lot for dealing with financial issues. > > Unfortunately, I find that its reports are not very accessible at least > by default. > The issue I'm most running into is that the reports use internal > indentation within a line. That is, to draw an account tree ledger > indents the column containing the account name depending on its level in > the tree. > > Certainly for the screen readers I use, and I think for most of the ones > in Debian, that's hard to approach. I found that I can view the file in > Emacs with whitespace mode enabled, and that's my best bet so far. > > i'm also told that there is a --flat option that displays the entire > account tree. I suspect that's really annoying for others. > > Indentation in the first column of a line is very easy to deal with for > any screen reader that a Python programmer would use. > > I'm hoping we can brainstorm somethinfg that works reasonably well for > me and for the rest of the community, so I'm bringing up the issue here. > Heya, So this would be the output of the DebConf19 budget using the --flat option: USD 1,291.76 assets:SPI USD 75,500.00 expenses:bursaries:bursaries USD 10,000.00 expenses:bursaries:diversity USD 1,031.41 expenses:graphic materials:banner USD 206.28 expenses:graphic materials:paper USD 257.85 expenses:graphic materials:poster USD 1,000.00 expenses:incidentals USD 386.78 expenses:insurance USD 335.21 expenses:local team:food USD 257.85 expenses:local team:transportation USD 1,289.26 expenses:party:cheese and wine USD 515.70 expenses:party:conference dinner:bus USD 515.70 expenses:party:conference dinner:drink USD 9,282.66 expenses:party:conference dinner:food USD 800.00 expenses:roomboard:accommodation:access point USD 34,191.12 expenses:roomboard:accommodation:bedrooms USD 464.13 expenses:roomboard:accommodation:cleaning USD 206.28 expenses:roomboard:accommodation:internet link USD 128.93 expenses:roomboard:accommodation:vegan food USD 10,314.06 expenses:roomboard:food:catering USD 128.93 expenses:roomboard:food:coffee and tea USD 1,440.87 expenses:swag:backpack USD 1,804.96 expenses:swag:drink cup USD 536.33 expenses:swag:lanyard USD 2,127.28 expenses:swag:t-shirt USD 1,408.98 expenses:venue:staff USD 79.93 expenses:video:cable hdmi USD 1,005.62 expenses:video:fiber USD 6,800.00 expenses:video:general USD 7,446.75 expenses:video:projector USD 4,641.33 expenses:video:sound equipament USD -25.79 incomes:donation USD -10,000.00 incomes:expected_sponsors:gold USD -5,000.00 incomes:expected_sponsors:silver USD -20,000.00 incomes:registration USD -11,414.88 incomes:sponsors:bronze USD -10,000.00 incomes:sponsors:gold USD -60,000.00 incomes:sponsors:platinum USD -54,024.81 incomes:sponsors:silver USD -4,930.50 incomes:sponsors:supporter 0 Is that more accessible? From what I understand from your email, the beginning indentation isn't a problem. If it is, we can script something to get rid of it too. I personally feel like the --flat output is harder to grok, but I've also been using ledger for a while. I know several people who had trouble understanding the "non --flat" output too, so I'm not sure it's actually worse. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Planet Debian revisions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 1/3/19 2:21 AM, Jonathan Carter wrote: > Where would be the best place to reach planet syndicators to notify > them about the update, d-d-a? Chances are people posting on Planet also read Planet :P But yeah, d-d-a is also a good idea. - -- ,''`. : :' : Louis-Philippe Véronneau `. `'` po...@debian.org / veronneau.org `- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEZ39U8fqGga2OwLzmeurE7GqqCpcFAlwtuw8ACgkQeurE7Gqq CpepuA/9ELYQsx0bD6L9N2c8jNr9jB+JKhYPads8Q8jtCUjk0Hmv0wf+FhZ34HVR Szj6W3OVbMagNL0e78pS73q1psePi52Q7tbExOII/p3R8EBHO+wECOhYwGkDiUT9 ttBcW+Y1K5sQoHnGRlDZ89gLUbNIY2HUyXxUn8SIROFuB34qmyIkUhfLs7VSU91R MpA4iuRpSfaE2+VL+cOgAgqxqnvo1+UPKel1gZqua2JSQpGBfyq/OnAKvAVLIvEt HpZ/V9+dF7pWE5kUxo9BS3NMA83vm2QMR0D0qeWMPu+6Z5stYhk/fzhvhIxyJOQ5 OdRjVxWE6GS9FylzuPezW0Qi4yEDAXTJItFTJB/y326FC48YbUlko6XHnOCO1TqV dSDLe3dPdTswxFP8wMMTt/WCFEZZzmz/ZD46p3p/QhibYWd39x4VTP8qYnwS4Ovc R/s2AFj9ASbmf1d8judD+7Baa5b1bZ/oZSfT1SSBilq/GoYRmLfIAbCimyRsXf7A GXEN6Q7ubJOh3/MCWNS6bUYAzx4GQby6E82QQg/+ORu/VoA5zCOVHwXDYxZj4oZQ E2LCRNUEQWsVNP9r2lKxvcu+hKJrfjGX+2Bh7cNSCLapyst+in7VkzHArl4RwY2t 5ldBbSUOK26WucrCvgKegklErDt6BT25yKSeT+oy7hvXY2wJL/o= =8FAe -END PGP SIGNATURE-
