Re: Request to Mini DebConf Montreal Organizers: Fight Israel not the DC20 Team
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 10:02:53AM +0100, Ansgar wrote: > the BDS movement, a movement that is uncontroversially seen as > antisemitic. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Re: possibly exhausted ftp-masters (Re: Do we still value contributions?
Hi, On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 09:49:22AM +, Sean Whitton wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu 26 Dec 2019 at 11:29am -05, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > > > One interesting thing about this is that I have often wondered if it > > would be beneficial to have checks on debian/copyright during the life > > of a package. Checking only once when a package first enters the Debian > > archive seems to leave open the rather likely possibility that some > > change in a future upstream release changes or adds some component > > license that should be documented in debian/copyright. I try to be > > diligent in this regard and even at times have found that I overlook > > things. > > Well, this is one of the reasons why source package which add new binary > packages end up in NEW again. > The full source tree gets checked again at that point as if the source > package were completely new. Really? Why? So far I assumed that simple binary package renames due to shared library bumps or other API transitions where fast-tracked without full review, perhaps slightly less so for additions or split-offs of e.g. -data or -doc packages. Adding new binaries is an arbitrary (apart from the technical implementation reason in dak, of course) point in time to recheck a source package; even more so if this is due to external reasons (binary name changed to the external API changes, like a PostgreSQL major version transition). Maybe we should have a conversation about periodical rechecks, but packages like rdkit[1] languishing in NEW for almost two months and counting just because of a new PostgreSQL release is a bit depressing. Michael [1] https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/rdkit_201909.1-1.html
Re: GR proposal: mandating VcsGit and VcsBrowser for all packages, using the "gbp patches unapplied" layout, and maybe also mandating hosted on Salsa
Hi, On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 07:31:11PM +0200, Thomas Goirand wrote: > This probably has been floating around for some time. IMO, enough time > so that we start to discuss $subject. Why is this a GR and not a policy proposal? Michael
Re: Reminder: Removing 2048 bit keys from the Debian keyrings
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 02:35:55PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Henrique de Moraes Holschuh dijo [Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 07:11:14PM -0200]: On Sat, 08 Nov 2014, Richard Hartmann wrote: Interpretation is in the eye of the bee holder, but I am considering to attach this list to my weekly bug report; mainly because I can. Wouldn't it make more sense to ask these people privately what is getting in the way of a switch to a stronger key? They have been asked. Repeatedly. AIUI, you need to have at least one(?) additional signature on your new 2048+ RSA key on top of your old DSA key, correct? If so, did you consider relaxing this requirement for the rollover? I.e. maybe having 2048 RSA keys signed by (only) old 1024 DSA keys in the keyring is better than having no key at all for a particular DD? Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141113173328.gm4...@raptor.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Reminder: Removing 2048 bit keys from the Debian keyrings
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 06:33:28PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: AIUI, you need to have at least one(?) additional signature on your new 2048+ RSA key on top of your old DSA key, correct? I meant on top of the signature from your old DSA key. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141113173447.gn4...@raptor.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Sponsoring a Tails hackfest?
Hi, On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 08:43:07AM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Hi, The Tails project is a Debian-based live system focusing on privacy and anonymity. For more information about Tails and their relationship with Debian, see: https://tails.boum.org/ https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/Tails https://tails.boum.org/contribute/relationship_with_upstream/ https://tails.boum.org/contribute/how/debian/ http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/ Tails is organizing a two-day hackfest and a contributors summit in July. They are requesting sponsorship from Debian for the events, in order to cover travel costs for contributors. Their overall budget is between 10kEUR and 20kEUR. Given that: - they are a derivative working closely with Debian (and being a live system, having their own public identity makes sense) - they are doing a lot of their work in Debian -- the hackfest could be seen as a Debian sprint - they are addressing important issues, and clearly contribute to Debian having something to say about such issues I am planning to allocate 5000 EUR. Comments? +1 Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140503081345.ga16...@raptor.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: working with FSF on Debian Free-ness assessment
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 07:49:37PM +0100, Dominik George wrote: Correct. Unfortunately I haven't heard much else either. Discussions went on on the fsf-collab-discuss list on alioth, but the state of the art is still that we're waiting for the FSF to refine current freeness assessment into more actionable items. Just out of curiosity: What's their definition of freedom anyway? You don't know what their definition of freedom is, but continue to assess their religious views? This doesn't look very useful to me. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131225190307.ga29...@raptor.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: working with FSF on Debian Free-ness assessment
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 08:13:29PM +0100, Dominik George wrote: Just out of curiosity: What's their definition of freedom anyway? You don't know what their definition of freedom is, but continue to assess their religious views? This doesn't look very useful to me. I know very well what their definition of freedom is. My question challenges the valdity of their definition. I suggest you take that to their forums, then. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131225193251.gb29...@raptor.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:59:45PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? Whatever the reason, a lot of people seems to miss that Download box. I mean it. Yeah, I did as well, when I last looked at it. I think it is unfortunate that the button is part of the banner, I guess I quickly skip over the banner because I do not expect any important content in it and many other users might as well. Having a button left/right of the Getting Started section might be more visible. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120812184115.ge7...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Greaat disappointment
Hi, On Sat, Oct 01, 2011 at 11:38:01AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Installing(!) an IRC client and diving into the world of IRC is an investment. Totally, but please also honor the (huge!) investment by the people doing first-level support in #debian (both on irc.debian.org and irc.freenode.net). They spent an awful lot of time helping out people; that some fall through the cracks is unfortunate, but not really possible to avoid. And I am not talking about Ti-chan here, who I guess did not really merit the attention at all. I remember some time ago when I used to be in there how frequently frustrated people from #ubuntu tried to sneak in to get support by claiming to run testing, cause the support in #d was much better. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20111001115704.gc14...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf9/10[/11] accounting summary
Hi, On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 08:35:36PM -0400, Richard Darst wrote: DebConf10 had €59716.21 of income, and €130300.76 of expenses, for a net loss of €34584.57. [...] [dc10-bal] http://rkd.zgib.net/http/debconf/dc10/ JFTR, according to that balance sheet, the income was EUR 95716.21 instead of EUR 59716.21, adding up to the above net loss of EUR 34584.57. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110624184031.ga19...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 01:04:47PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: On 05/10/2010 01:50 AM, Paul Wise wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de wrote: Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more than one customer asking me why Debian is forcing them to do such an extra step and why they should not just use Ubuntu. Tell them to blame their hardware vendor for not releasing the firmware as free software. It is rare to see that, but it does happen: http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ar9170.fw http://packages.debian.org/sid/all/firmware-linux-free/filelist Using only 'free' software might make them happier, but the first thing people look for is less pain in the ass while installing and maintaining a system. We are not in a perfect world unfortunately, so blaming the hardware vendor is not the first option people choose. Using a just working installer is the option. btw, http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2010/05/09/whose-fault-is-it/ Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100512112419.gc4...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 01:05:19PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: On 05/10/2010 08:33 AM, Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote: What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess) you downloaded and add the firmware? For quite some people it's very difficult (hi bro!), for some it's impossible (hi dad!) and for most of the rest it's a PITA (hi me!). And, for another tiny fraction it is easy and smells like freedom. Maybe we should really provide two sets of Debian install media for squeeze, pure Debian and Debian with non-free firmwarez included. Then, after two releases we can look at the download statistics and see, if we want to continue that... +1 from me! I also think this is the way forward, provided the non-free images are seperated on cdimage.debian.org from the free ones in some way that makes it e.g. easy for mirror admins to not include them (I don't say they shouldn't). Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100512112540.gd4...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or - if this is not possible - be loaded via USB sticks, floppies or cdroms. I thought this was exactly the current situation with lenny. The installer would need a possibility to include such firmware blobs and detect hardware again if required to continue the installation process. Not sure about this bit, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked, either. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100512225113.ga4...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 10:59:57AM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: On 05/06/2010 07:22 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: 2) Having the non-free firmware in the regular CD image sets; firmware which is not loaded by default, but that can be selectively enabled by the user, pretty much as users can now enable non-free in sources.list to get non-free packages from the Internet media (to be compared with the CD media). Sounds like the better option, at least for the firmware which is necessary to make the network interface work. Everything else could be downloaded later by showing the user a dialog like 'you need this non-free firmware stuff, which is not part of debian, but we have it right here for you... do you want it?' Personally, I don't think it is good to ship stuff we consider non-free on our official installation media. I would prefer we either decide that some of those/all of those firmware files are fine WRT our guidelines (possibly clarifying those guidelines in the process), or we go the route of the seperate CD set. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509092311.gc12...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Welcome to our 2010 Debian Google Summer of Code students!
Hi, On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 11:12:55PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le lundi 26 avril 2010 à 21:40 +0200, Obey Arthur Liu a écrit : == Debian High Performance Computing on Clouds == by Dominique Belhachemi, mentored by Steffen Moeller The project paves a way to combine the demands in high performance computing with the dynamics of compute clouds with Debian. Combining the Eucalyptus cloud computing infrastructure with the TORQUE resource manager and preparing the components for dynamically added and removed instances provides the user with a attractive high performance computing environment. Such a system allows users to share resources with large compute centers with minimal changes in their workflow and scripts. Sorry but I have to object to a project that is based on non-free software. Especially when we have free and superior packages in the archive that provide similar functionality. Torque has now been accepted into main, so this issue is moot: http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/torque.html Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100509184543.gf12...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: let's add news.debian.net to planet.d.o (!?)
Hi, On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 09:07:04AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Since a while now, Ana has been doing a great job in providing the news.debian.net service [1]. Ack, though personally, I see two things (unrelated to the discussion at hand) which Ana might want to consider: 1. Some (informal) posts are quoted too much in direct speech; I think it would be better to rewrite them editorially like e.g. LWN does. 2. I think the list of new packages is not very useful due to volume; I think it would make sense to trim down the list to only important packages and/or combine similar packages (different -plugins for the same base package for example) to one. However, the really important uploads are covered elsewhere anyway, so I just ignore those posts for now. I personally find it a very useful service in blog news style: it provides useful bit of information, it goes straight to the point, and does not post too often (once/twice a week usually). I have been recently wondering [2] why that feed is not on Planet. Ana would be glad to be there, but she has the impression that Planet policy forbids non-individual feds to be there. I've been checking the current guidelines which in fact _implicitly_ refers to individual blogs. Given how useful the service is, and given that it does fulfill the purpose of planet (most of the news are community-oriented news), can we have it added to Planet? Note that Ubuntu has a planet-like service called the Fridge which aggregates several non-personal blogs (AIUI), maybe Debian could do the same (under a different title), and aggregate the non-personal blogs currently on Planet Debian (AFAIK, loldebian, Debconf, DSA, now Debian News) and possibly others (e.g. somebody could volunteer to write a one-paragraph summary of every d-d-a post which gets syndicated along with the link to the full post on the new service) I am fine with having Debian News on Planet, I think it is very worthwhile addition (considering loldebian is already on there). Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:41:34PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote: At the end some possible changes were proposed: * Defining On-Topicness more sharply, e.g. * Packaging Issues which pertain to more than one package * Non-packaging Development of Debian * Reconsider CCs * Maybe split off Packaging questions/issues to a new -packaging list? * Maybe split off WNPP Traffic to a new -wnpp list? Considering the discussion at debconf and in this thread, maybe the following (from a recent blog post of mine) could be a different starting point? * Encourage people to re-subscribe to debian-devel now that the traffic has been decreasing. Also contact people who take over threads with repeating, frequent messages or with agressiveness privately and request them to stop * Be more proactive in moving off-topic threads elsewhere and define on-topicness more sharply (e.g. development matters pertaining to more than one (or a few) packages) * Cut down ITPs somewhat by aggregating multiple similar ITPs into one message and using specialised teams (pkg-perl, pkg-games) if appropriate. Maybe also consider creating a new debian-itp mailing list where all ITPs get CCed to as well * Update our list (and more?) guidelines with a more steam-lined version, possibly using the GNOME code of conduct as a base Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:34:37AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: What proportion of devel is wnpp email? Roughly 20%, based on rough statistics over first half of 2009. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:44:14PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Michael Banckmba...@debian.org wrote: at Debconf9, there was a BoF about the debian-devel list and how we could possibly make it more attractive. Was this recorded (I can't find it in the initial video release)? Yes, but it is not yet available AFAICT. * Maybe split off WNPP Traffic to a new -wnpp list? ... The other discussed item was about ITPs. It turned out that roughly 20% of the debian-devel list traffic are ITPs and discussions thereof. While it is clear that ITPs should get reviewed, maybe not all of them have to be copied to -devel. It was suggested that for mass-filings (sometimes people file the ITP for a dozen perl libraries needed as Build-Depends/Depends for a package in one go), something less-intrusive could be used, maybe perhaps a summary posting. Another option is that specific teams like the perl or the games teams review ITPs in their field, while only generic ITPs get copied to -devel. The list already exists, but it recieves all traffic from all wnpp bugs and is therefore rather high-traffic: Yes, I know. But due to it getting all the bug traffic, it is not very inviting to people just interested in reviewing ITPs/get notified about ITAs/Os. I should have suggested a different name, or moving the current -wnnp traffic elsewhere first. However, there does not seem to be a lot of consensus on moving most/all WNPP traffic off -devel anyway. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:17:55PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Allowing these logical fallacies to stand, and not refuting them, lead to a discussion that goes nowhere, or floats off into sub optimal directions if not scotched in the bud. Indeed, leaving logical fallacies unchallenged does nore to harm the discussion than pointing them out and trying to bring the thread back to a logical discussion; and leaving ad hominem attacks unchallenged poisons the discussion environment to the point that it detracts from the discussion itself. I think people would prefer if those were pointed out in private mail. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Summary of the debian-devel BoF at Debconf9
Hi, at Debconf9, there was a BoF about the debian-devel list and how we could possibly make it more attractive. At first some small research was presented on what other projects/distributions (mostly Ubuntu, Gentoo, Fedora, OpenSUSE and GNOME) are doing, the slides are here: https://penta.debconf.org/dc9_schedule/attachments/119_debian-devel.pdf At the end some possible changes were proposed: * Defining On-Topicness more sharply, e.g. * Packaging Issues which pertain to more than one package * Non-packaging Development of Debian * Reconsider CCs * Maybe split off Packaging questions/issues to a new -packaging list? * Maybe split off WNPP Traffic to a new -wnpp list? The first (redefining on-topicness) and third (split off packaging questions) points did not meet a lot of discussion (maybe somebody on this list has some input?), however the second (recondider CCs) and last (split off wnpp traffic) had some. Regarding CCs, it was hightlighted that the current list conduct explicitely says (since a short while ago) people should refrain from complaining about CCs on-list and do this privately. Further discussion made clear that most of the people present might consider getting CCed a small nuisance, but consider discussions about this much more disrupting. Furthermore, some people actually like being CCed on things, though maybe more to attract their attention to threads they would otherwise not read (and not as direct replies to them). The other discussed item was about ITPs. It turned out that roughly 20% of the debian-devel list traffic are ITPs and discussions thereof. While it is clear that ITPs should get reviewed, maybe not all of them have to be copied to -devel. It was suggested that for mass-filings (sometimes people file the ITP for a dozen perl libraries needed as Build-Depends/Depends for a package in one go), something less-intrusive could be used, maybe perhaps a summary posting. Another option is that specific teams like the perl or the games teams review ITPs in their field, while only generic ITPs get copied to -devel. Another important discussion was about dealing with big and repetetive threads. Most people seemed to agree that those threads are a problem and it was suggested to mail the involved people privately and ask them to reconsider mailing the same arguments multiple times. If I misrepresented something or forgot anything, please correct me. cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: On cadence and collaboration
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 10:55:36AM +0200, Julien Cristau wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:38:56 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: How does Ubuntu want to do a proper (commercial) support for their packages if they don't even have the time/manpower to take care of their bugs? Taking care of bugs is something that should be done properly in every distribution. You can look at bugs filed by paying customers, and ignore the rest. Really, I don't think discussing Canonical's business model and/or Ubuntu/Canonical's approach to QA/bug triaging/bug fixing has to be discussed here. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Opera in your repos
On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 11:44:00PM +0200, Ilya Shpan'kov wrote: I will inform our lawers about your opinion. Really, it have a very big sense. I can say, that here in Opera we had discussions about being Free Software every year. Unfortunately, we have a lot of agreements with other companies which use Opera at their devices - by this case we still can't to be a real free Software. If you mean you are using 3rd party code which is licensed to you under proprietary terms - there is not much you can do I guess. If you mean you and your partners rely on commercial exploitation of (some of) the features of Opera - there is always the possibility of dual-licensing the code to GPL/Proprietary together with forced copyright assignments (so Opera retains control of the general direction and can relicense/exploit the code). This way, no other company can exploit the code in a proprietary way (or has to disclose their modifications) while Opera still can (as the code owner through the alternative proprietary license). Whether you attract a lot of outside developers this way (due to truely free alternatives like Webkit and Gecko) is a different matter, of course. regards, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: the role of the LSB (was: On cadence and collaboration)
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 08:52:10AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: I think it's the job of something like the LSB to ensure a necessary baseline across distros on which vendors can build. Well, maybe; however the LSB is *very* baseline, so not very useful. Besides, it is heavily geared towards ISVs, not other FLOSS projects. Having a unified set of core packages across a number of important distributions would make it easier for other upstream projects to target their support at (as opposed to just supported the latest stable or even unstable/snapshot release). And in the end, the LSB would profit as well, as it could more easily define the set of base packages required, based on what is decided upon by the those interacting distributions. Whether this is something Debian should desire is a different matter I have not made up my mind upon. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes
On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 08:04:12AM +0200, Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote: Yes, but OTOH we strongly support copyleft softwares versus the BSD- like softwares, because we expect to have back the works and because we expect to behave as a big community. No we don't. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
On syncing freeze dates with other distributions
Hi, I have been thinking a bit about the proposed syncing of the freeze date with LTS recently. I do not think it is a bad thing in general, but I do think a freeze sync with a 10.04 LTS would be premature. The other concern I have is lengthening our release cycle to 2 years - I think this is quite a bit too long, I am very happy with the current (rather informel) 1,5 years which is just between the 6-month release cycle of the Fedora, OpenSuSE and Ubuntu community distributions and the RHEL, SLES, LTS enterprise distributions. So my proposal is the following: We go for a freeze-sync together with Ubuntu 10.10; preferably (that is up to Canonical to decide) that being the LTS instead of 10.04. Furthermore, from then on, we will continue to freeze every 18 months, and recommend to Ubuntu to freeze-sync every second Debian release as LTS. That would mean (AFAIK) Ubuntu would have to lenghten their LTS release cycle by a year, while Debian pledges to a time-based freeze in sync with that. The other option I came up with (and which Moritz just put on the table) is further syncing with the enterprise releases of RedHat or Novell. Ideally all the commercial enterprise releases would have a new major version every 3 years and Debian would have one version in between every 1,5 years (while the community-supported projects of those enterprise distributions continue at a 6 month release cycle). Certainly this ideal world will not happen in the near future, but it might be something (especially for the others as well) to converge upon eventually. If one of RedHat or SuSe are freezing their enterprise distribution around the same time the squeeze/10.04 LTS freeze was initially scheduled, that would be an argument for a short squeeze cycle; just freezing in sync with Ubuntu (and adopting their release cycle) would not be, in my opinion. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian decides to adopt time-based release freezes
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:11:39PM +0200, Ana Guerrero wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:40:30AM +0200, Luk Claes wrote: Sune Vuorela wrote: We also need to coordinate such things with the larger packaging teams to see wether it fits their schedules and their upstream schedules. For example from a KDE point of view, it is around teh worst time. I guess you are talking about freezing this December and not in general? Lets discuss the issues regarding KDE and see if we can come to a solution. With my KDE hat on, I am sure we can disscuss about this and maybe get a solution, but it would have been nicer if you have discuss this issues with any team *before* making any plans. Well, you have to draw the line somewhere - we skipped KDE4 with lenny and will apparently skip GNOME3 with squeeze. I understand that some teams are unhappy not having been contacted before (maybe the security team being the most important, IMHO), but I don't think there is a historical precedence (or even clear desire) of the release team contacting lots of teams beforehand on release timeline decisions. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:00:23PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 02:04:34AM +0200, Peter Palfrader wrote: On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Faidon Liambotis wrote: Something is definitely wrong here, IMHO. Maybe it's your assumption or assertion that the only point of NEW is checking the copyright file. He's right that binary NEW is not the right time to be applying unrelated sourceful checks to packages. If ftpmaster feels the need to spot-check packages, that's fine, but that shouldn't be coupled to package renames where the purpose of NEW is to keep control of the package namespace and set the archive overrides. Well, one thing one might thing of: Auditing soname-changes. However, I guess the release-team would be the better group to evaluate those and I do not have an immediate idea on how to do this without causing major delays. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:52:59AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: In the former case FTP masters are wasting their time, in the latter case their role is indeed useful to defend our mirror tenants, but then copyright reviews must be *intensified*. I would prefer a more real-time mirroring of the queue to a project machine (I don't really know the current lag, I have to admit), and making the NEW queue accessible to developers there. (and possibly adding to the DMUP that disclosing NEW content is a DMUP violation) Is there anything I am missing why (opening the NEW queue to developers) is not possible? Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Creating an operating system
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:13:55PM +0200, Thomas Viehmann wrote: 1. There is precisely one mail (ITP bug from November) from 2007 in the lists.d.o archive and he was advocated in January 2008. I think it would be nice to have svn.d.o/git.d.o commits and replies to bug reports available as well in order to evaluate candidates; probably this should be kept DD-only for privacy reasons. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:01:40PM +0300, Eugene V. Lyubimkin wrote: New maintainers usually write info about themselves during a first part of working with AM, and this info is also included in the AM report. Yeah, but that might be outdated by the time they actually become developers; when I was an AM I asked the NMs to update their initial self-introduction for the public AM report. They could do the same thing after getting their account. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:58:22PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 23/06/09 at 22:35 +0100, Stephen Gran wrote: This one time, at band camp, Lucas Nussbaum said: I've been advocating people too early (i.e, I've advocated people so that they could start NM, while in the meantime, I wouldn't have advocated them for DM). Thank you for adding to other people's workload sifting through applicants who aren't yet ready. Who did I advocate who wasn't ready? You said so yourself above. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:39:20PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: Chris Lamb and Samuel Thibault both applied very late. Much too late. Before they applied, several people have been wondering why they weren't DDs yet. I'm not sure why they didn't apply earlier, but the fact that our NM process is so unappealing might not be totally unrelated. It's actually sad that we need to push[1] skilled people like them to apply to NM. FTR, Samuel didn't apply to NM before because he didn't have GPG key. (I think he believed he couldn't be responsible enough handling it for a couple of years). Once he had one, he applied for DM (or the other way round), and then for NM a couple of months later. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DAM and NEW queues processing
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 09:56:53AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: Sune Vuorela nos...@vuorela.dk writes: sometimes, I look at a issue and think that the correct solution here is a package split, but I often end up working around it in other ways, just because of NEW. In my experience, package splits go through in a week or two except in rare situations. That never seemed like a difficult wait to me. I think some people might be afraid to split packages at this point because they fear a full copyright audit for the NEW package and having to spend time on fixing up their copyright file to today's expectations. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Genericly-named debian.net domains for private use
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 12:19:31PM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote: i don't see grounds to stop using the git.debian.net subdomain as i currently do. i don't see grounds to stop using the backports.debian.net subdomain as i currently do. Well, I do. You are using generic .debian.net domains for mostly your own use. I consider that bad style and bad team-playing. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Twittering on planet.d.o?
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:58:29PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote: Well I don't intend to tweet extensively, but only as a replacement for real blogging as I'm not up to writing long blog posts. Luk: what do you think yourself? I think having a very limited amount of tweets from people that do not write long blog posts is ok, though if it's not appreciated I'll remove my feed. Maybe it makes sense to enhance planet to collapse microblogging feeds into at most one item per day via some special-handling? Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: written delegations
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:16:18PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: Definitely, written delegations could be really useful to Debian to clarify prerogatives and responsabilities, and avoid misunderstandings. Sorry, but this sounds like micro-managing delegates to me. If you think sections are under-documented see whether you can improve on policy or the developer's reference maybe. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Results of the Lenny release GR
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 08:22:58AM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: You're the Secretary. You're supposed to give answers, not speculation. If the ballot was ambigous, or confusing, it is YOUR responsibility. It has to be said that at least I am taking YOU personally responsable for a lot of why the ballot was ambigous as well, not least to the fact you named your proposal Reaffirm the Social Contract, i.e. SC-trolling the rest of the project not in line with your opinion. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Discussion: Possible GR: Enhance requirements for General Resolutions
On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:01:17PM +0100, Michael Goetze wrote: MJ Ray wrote: to reduce GRs, having another way for developers to ask a question that nearly always gets answered might help. Such as, say, writing an email to debian-de...@ldo? Eh, -devel is for technical issues pertaining to more than a single or a few package(s). I don't think it's a help desk. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:38:56AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote: George Danchev danc...@spnet.net writes: On Saturday 20 December 2008 21:33:27 MJ Ray wrote: So, people who remain on the debian mailing lists have a poor understanding of what should appear a good mailing list, What makes you think that vocal minority is larger than silent majority in debian mailing lists? The premise of the original poster (Jurij Smakov) was that the vocal minority dominates the mailing list discussions. I think th premise of George was that vocal minority vs. silent majority are different in terms of people posting to lists and people scoring list posts. I.e., while it is obvious that the silent majority is pretty silent when it comes to posting to lists, they are (by definition) reading the list and might score/vote the messages because it does not publically add to the list. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Re-thinking Debian membership
On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 09:56:09PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Secondly, What exactly to these members of the project do, if they do not vote or upload packages? They might commit to the webml repository or sent mails to debian-news, e.g. Of course, they could just vote as well, but if we have an extra measure for packagers, maybe also for otherwise contributing members. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Developer Status
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 05:55:00PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: I hate in Ganneff proposal the fact that it just standardize the 6 months delay to be a DD. It's acknowledging that we suck, and trying nothing to fix the problem. It's unacceptable to me. Other projects are doing similar; e.g. I think there is a 4-6 month delay for Ubuntu members before they can apply as Ubuntu MOTU, in which time they have to show sustained contributions and are getting evaluated. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quote from Stephen Roberts (was: Filing bug reports in Debian)
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 09:22:28AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote: No, that quote was not made by Sir Stephen Henry Roberts. (If you know differently, could you please provide a reference?) Uhm, why do you post in public? It seems to be entirely off-topic. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sound servers for Debian 4.0r3 i386
On Sat, Oct 04, 2008 at 08:33:26PM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: Please post the exact error message you get (if any) when you run mpg123. It might help to turn off any KDE/Gnome specific sound handling as they sometimes block the device and may prevent each other from playing any sounds. debian-projects is not the contact address to report bugs, please do not encourage people doing so by asking for feedback to their reports. thanks, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and non-free
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:24:52AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: Non-free is there just because the free counterparts aren't optimal. Someday these will, and non-free will just disappear from Debian :) Non-free is for GNU documentation. I think we should consider (post-lenny) splitting up non-free in a couple of sub-categories. Personally, I'd prefer fsf-free, but non-free-docs would be just as good, besides non-free-firmware and non-free for the rest. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DEP1: Non Maintainer Uploads (final call for review)
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 09:00:25AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: I'm disappointed if the docs have been patched quietly to expand the singular they bug. There's almost no need for it. When reasonably possible, please phrase things in such a way to avoid assuming gender, or switch some examples. We could actually be sending positive messages by including examples clearly of both genders, instead of confusing some people with singular they. I think it is reasonable to first fix the bug (no gender neutrality) in the most straight-forward way, which is probably the singular they, as it does not require major rewriting. Enhancing the text afterwards in the ways you propose is certainly a good thing and should be pursued - maybe you could send a patch or something? In any case, we should keep it in mind as a wishlist bug (or file it as a real wishlist bug if a devref pseudo-package exists). Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: About the use of epicene they in technical documents.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 08:35:56AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: But again, most persons in these environments are non-native speakers??? Mabye most persons in these environments are male. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: confusion about non-free (Re: Bits from the Debian Eee PC team, summer 2008)
On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 09:17:20PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: It wasn't my intention at all to hurt someone, so I said things in the kindest way I could, without getting personal. If that was the best you could do, that's troubling. But you have to see both sides of things. When I saw that mail, the first thing I think is the press will pick it and announce to everyone that Lenny supports this hardware, with the implicit assumption that we have dropped our ideals and joined the non-free bandwagon (actually, this is still likely despite my reaction). Of course, the press doesn't read follow-ups on (for outsiders) unrelated lists, so you were just bashing a fellow DD, not doing any emergency-rescue PR operation or anything. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: my treatment in #debian
On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 05:16:45PM -0400, Rahul Jain wrote: As a regular in #debian (on OPN/freenode) for over 5 years and a contributor to the debian project, one would expect that I would be treated slightly better by the ops than random newbies. Quite the contrary, Regulars are held to higher standards than random newbies, as they (if they want or not) represent Debian to the user community. So while the channel moderators might let a random newbie rant for a while, ad-hominem attacks of regulars towards newbies should not be tolerated by the Debian project, IMO. This is my general opinion, I have not seen or reviewed the incident in case. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Live (Was: Debian Logo Use)
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:51:56AM +0200, Daniel Baumann wrote: Lucas Nussbaum wrote: While Debian Live is really nice, some things could be improved about it. Each time I wanted to use it, I ran into an issue that required going to IRC to ask how to work around the problem (the problem was always already known). as you know, debian testing and unstable are in flux and depends heavily on the maintainers ability to fix core packages for debian-live (e.g. kernel-modules). if those are broken, debian-live is broken. Maybe debian-live could coordinate with d-i to release some beta* snapshots of the testing distribution which are known to work. I guess the kernel needs to be at least similarly working for both, and maybe the Debian project should pay more attention to debian-live breakage during the days building up to a new (d-i) beta release. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of the project - input needed
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 10:10:41AM +, Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 11:35:02AM +0100, Michael Banck wrote: - what are the major changes in the project and our product(s) since the etch release? I feel the release team tools are getting improved more and more, making library transitions (and testing transitions in general) smoother, and thus testing more and more usable. Though I guess the release team is in a better position to comment on this. The new dpkg symbol handling will further dramatically improve testing mitgrations once the big libraries are using it. The main source of difficulty with library transitions is soname changes. dpkg symbol handling does nothing to alleviate this pain; the only things that would make a difference are upstreams learning to develop stable ABIs, maintainers of dependent packages not carelessly disrupting the transitions, or a solution to the problem that soname transitions must currently be handled as forklift copies into testing. I didn't mean to say dpkg symbols would help with library transitions, but I was under the impression that they help with testing migrations in general - namely when a package rebuilt against a library with new symbols doesn't necessarily need to go in together with the library because it does not use any of the new symbols, thus depending on an earlier version of the library already in testing. Maybe this is not really an issue right now anyway, I haven't really thought this through. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of the project - input needed
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 09:40:47AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: - what are some pending decisions that have to be made? Not sure about a decision, but the pending addition of GNU/KFreeBSD to the archive sounds worthwhile to me (though I don't know the current state, but I was under the impression that this was targetted for Lenny) - what are the major changes in the project and our product(s) since the etch release? I feel the release team tools are getting improved more and more, making library transitions (and testing transitions in general) smoother, and thus testing more and more usable. Though I guess the release team is in a better position to comment on this. The new dpkg symbol handling will further dramatically improve testing mitgrations once the big libraries are using it. Also, the testing security team seems to be doing a great job, further increasing testing's usability for our users. So in summary, testing appears to be much improved for lenny compared to etch. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Introducing Debian Enhancement Proposals (DEPs)
This is obviously the bikeshed part of DEP0... On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:30:42PM +0100, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote: On Wednesday 16 January 2008, Andreas Tille wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Adeodato Simó wrote: Lars Wirzenius, Stefano Zacchiroli and myself are trying to introduce the concept of Debian Enhancement Proposals, Well done! I have only one comment (for the moment): Creating a DEP -- The procedure to create a DEP is simple: send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], stating that you're taking the next I think the initial mail should be sended to debian-devel-announce because there might be a lot of interested people who do not read debian-project. At least I feel DEP0 should go initially to dda. debian-devel-announce is restricted to DD's do we want that for proposing DEP's? On the other hand, finding a DD to forward a proposal would probably be easy enough, so it doesn't matter that much Personally, I think DEP should go to d-d-a *once accepted* (dunno about obsoleted, maybe as well), but initial drafts should go to either debian-devel (DEP touches development, I assume this will be the vast majority of DEPs, also the case for most examples from DEP0), or debian-project (DEP does not touch development, the `finding sponsorship' example from DEP0 and DEP0 itself). Otherwise, I think this is a good idea. Did you consider moving dep.d.n over to wiki.debian.org once that is run by ikiwiki and DEPs are common practise? cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No buildd redundancy for alpha/mips/mipsel
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 01:18:38PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote: I think you'd better look at db.debian.org/machines.cgi to have an idea of the current status... I can see the current status fine on jvw's buildd pages: those three arches only have a single active buildd listed when they're supposed to have two. I believe buildd redundancy does not mean having 2+ active buildds, but having at least one active buildd who can keep up, plus a possibly inactive backup buildd who could quickly be made active in case the primary buildd fails. So just looking at jvw's buildd pages might not be enough, unless it displays inactive buildds as well. (mostly considering alpha here, as apparently mips/mipsel indeed do not have redundancy right now) Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No buildd redundancy for alpha/mips/mipsel
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:23:34AM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote: On 29/11/2007, Michael Banck wrote: I believe buildd redundancy does not mean having 2+ active buildds, but having at least one active buildd who can keep up, plus a possibly inactive backup buildd who could quickly be made active in case the primary buildd fails. I'd add ???having a responsive buildd maintainer???, uploading packages in a timely fashion. Awww, just when we were able to keep it constructive for a couple of messages... Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)
On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:55:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: aj, who'd just like to see some failure analysis / air crash investigation type conclusions out of this, rather than just foo sucks and shouldn't upload One thing we could do is have a seperate report on http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed by interested people. Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian overrides when they review a package. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: or we could disallow the override of = E: errors in lintian, and make lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and install windows over your Debian if you override such errors. Are you routinely overriding valid lintian errors or why are you apparently so deeply horrified by peer review of lintian overrides? Pierre, bugs are nothing to be ashamed of. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NM process, AMs, advocates, mentors and applicants
On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 02:08:41PM +0100, Bas Wijnen wrote: Reform NM: mentor-advocates should teach their applicants and help them to produce a file demonstrating that they possess all the required DD skills; the AM should then check for any gaps (temporarily rejecting if needed) and test the applicant, recording the test; then that portfolio and test results are passed to FD and on to DAM, in a verifiable, effective, timely and appropriate process. I have an idea. Let's split mentor-advocate and add the mentor function to the AM. You know what? You seem to have described the current process. The file you're talking about is known as the private AM report. I don't think it's as easy as this. Currently, the AM is not so much a mentor, rather a tick-off guy who checks that the applicant is ready to become a DD. Most of the mentoring is supposed to take place before the NM even applies, and is carried out by the sponsors or other team members for team-maintained packages. That said, some mentoring is possible (like AMs could propose to act as the NMs sponsor during the process) but AFAIK it is not the prime subject of the process. This has the disadvantage that a new community member does not have a single-point-of-contact (they /might/ have a regular sponsor, but not all do and hunting around for sponsors is a tedious task for many). What MJ Ray describes as a file above could well be http://wiki.debian.org/JohnDoe, i.e. the personal wiki page of the new community member. We could encourage people to record their progress in Debian there - what packages they created/maintained/got-uploaded, what bugs they fixed or patches they provided in other people's packages or what else they did in the project (IRC op in a Debian channel, helping out people in community forums, writing articles or otherwise advocating Debian) This might make life for AMs (and I believe for FD) easier, as it would be easily possible to track progress via the wiki history. I am not sure how the mentoring fits in here (should we have a dedicated mentoring process where new community member have a specific mentor? How should that mentor be selected? By some FD-like thing, or by mutual agreement with a DD they know?) The split of AM and mentor may be useful, but there doesn't seem to be much need for it. At least AFAICS the problem with NM is mostly at the waiting for DAM to create account stage. That's an issue at the other end of process. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Maintainers
Hi, On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 03:42:02PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: When a new NM gains upload rights (and becomes a DD), there is a mail on -newmaint. And it's like that for years. But not since the beginning of adding DDs to the project, it was introduced later on. It surely makes a lot of sense to do so, but I don't see it as an categoric requirement during beta-testing. It's also made public on nm.debian.org, for everyone to see and watch. I expect at least the same degree of informations to be available for DDs. I expect that as well, and as soon as DM starts officially and is out of beta. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Maintainers
On Sun, Oct 28, 2007 at 01:59:22PM +0100, Bart Martens wrote: Beta-testing is good. But granting non-DD's upload rights requires following the rules of the voted GR. As I understand it, the people (or maybe aj individually) implementing DM currently are taking responsiblity for those uploads as if they sponsored them. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: curl dependency problem in unstable
On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 11:06:49AM -0500, Steve Greenland wrote: On 25-Jun-07, 08:33 (CDT), Michael Banck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 02:07:05PM +0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm having this problem in unstable for a week now: I'm sorry, but I don't think inquiries about unstable issues are on topic here, Um, why then would we encourage users of unstable to subscribe to debian-devel and ask questions here? Do we? I thought we only encourage them to subscribe to unstable to read it and keep current on possible issues. Problems with the unstable archives are on-topic for -devel. There's always tons of problems with packages in unstable not installing etc. Unless you mean something else with `the unstable archive' I don't see how asking here about every apt-get install foo failing will work out - We've got dozens of people in #debian asking that everyday. My understanding is that we do not support users running unstable with their package interdependency problems - they should be able to fix those themselves if they run unstable (at least, that is the current stance in #debian, where we resolve those problems on a best-effort basis contrary to stable/testing issues, dunno about the debian-user list). They should file bugs for them if there aren't any of course, and we support them in sofar as we expect the respective maintainers to fix those issues once they are reported. Just mailing debian-devel instead shouldn't be encouraged, IMHO, we'd drown in those mails if everybody did that. Hrm, maybe we should have this discussion on -project, m-f-t set. cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another level of agression ?
On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 07:01:38PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: For the record, i did ask on #debian-kernel, and got no reply, and when asked, Bastian Blank did say he didn't know who did it, and Stephan Gran, and Roland Mas, who are admining alioth, know, but don't want to say. Hrm, last time you silently removed somebody from the kernel team (Jonas), people were able to find out it was you in the end. Maybe you can use the same technique now, or maybe that feature got removed/deactivated in newer gforge versions. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Plain English Please
On Tue, Feb 13, 2007 at 09:53:48AM -0500, Joe Smith wrote: Well this is due to Intel's stupidity. They created IA64 when what was really needed was something like Amd64. Then they realized that amd64 was a better design. They added it to the IA32 line under the name EM64T (without marketing the processors as 64 bit). Now they call it Intel64 and market the processors as 64 bit. Eh, I know. Why is everybody trying to help people in this thread? The point is that our website isn't totally clear and straight-forward, and some users who don't know exactly (back when I had a C64, I didn't know what CPU was inside for most of the time either, neither did I care) are mistaken. So giving the correct answer in this thread isn't really helpful to people visiting our website. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Plain English Please
On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 12:18:12PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: Did you happen to read this [0]? 'Debian is available for different computer architectures - make sure you are getting images that match your computer! (Most people will need images for i386, i.e. Intel systems.)' Of course, right below that it says that the latest official release is 3.1 rev4. Then, of course, these things are all also covered in the FAQs. If you look at the URL the original poster mentioned, I think they have a point - exposing the cdimage.d.o directory layout like this isn't really user friendly, we want possible users to find our distribution without having to search through FAQs, this should be a no-brainer. So while I don't think this is a dramatic problem, it might certainly be something we could improve on. One thing which just crosses my mind is to maybe blend out most of the architectures, and only expose direct links to i386, amd64 and powerpc plus an Other architectures link. We have a recurring support problem in #debian having to explain people that their new Intel 64bit based box is really amd64 and not ia64, for example. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explications needed...
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 03:11:33AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote: ps. it seems Aurelien was 'routing around a problem' with no malicious intension which runs contrary to the word 'rogue' which was used to describe his actions. I didn't say his actions were rogue, I said he setup a rogue autobuilder, which is (AFAIK) the proper term for an uploading autobuilder not integrated into our buildd network. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Explications needed...
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 05:03:35PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: Aurelien mailed debian-arm, went to #debian-arm, had no response. He then warn about his intention [1] to run qemu-based autobuilders to fill the gap due to broken arm buildds. He did that on the open, and got ... zero answers. He wrote in his blog about setting up an emulated arm buildd, but didn't explicitely say he'd upload .debs with it (though one could maybe read that between the lines). I have just written about this on -project (Subject: Rogue autobuilders (was: Re: New ARM autobuilders)), I suggest we move the discussion over there as it is not related to package development but a distribution-wide issue. cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian on a Pocket PC
On Thu, Nov 16, 2006 at 08:53:11AM +0100, Antonio Lanza wrote: See http://www.handhelds.org/geeklog/index.php, Please avoid answering end-user questions on -project, this is not the right list for this. Either point them at -user or answer privately (or both). Thanks, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun T2000 available for SPARC development
On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 07:03:44PM +, Martin Michlmayr wrote: Sun has kindly donated a Fire T2000 machine to Debian. This machine is based on Sun's new UltraSparc T1 CPU, better known as Niagara [1]. The CPU has 8 cores, each with 4 threads, yielding 32 threads in total. Wow, that's awesome! Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please change the Maintainer: header when forking Debian
On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 10:07:11AM +0100, Roland Mas wrote: Michael Banck, 2006-11-03 02:27:40 +0100 : Ubuntu is renaming the Maintainer: header to Original-Maintainer: and is using their respective development mailing list as Maintainer: for newly compiled packages for quite a while now. For values of quite a while less than two weeks, I suppose, since my latest experience of Hey, why don't you fix your bugs in Ubuntu? ended about two weeks ago with a rebuild of my package (kinoplus, in that case) which *still* lists me as the maintainer. Insofar as I can navigate the Launchpad thingy, I see no mention of Debian-Maintainer or Original-Maintainer. If you grab the .deb referenced from http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/graphics/kinoplus and look at the control inside, you will find: Package: kinoplus Version: 0.3.5-3build1 [...] Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Original-Maintainer: Roland Mas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe they still retain your name somewhere on launchpad.net though, not sure. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please change the Maintainer: header when forking Debian
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 11:09:23PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote: I've had problems with packages of mine living in ubuntu universe two times already, and that's tiredsome. Especially because one of those users didn't want to believe that I was not the Ubuntu Maintainer of that package, since my name was in it. Ubuntu is renaming the Maintainer: header to Original-Maintainer: and is using their respective development mailing list as Maintainer: for newly compiled packages for quite a while now. Michael -- peterS well, even if we're happy about an approximation of Pi ~= 3, it's nice to see them come up with a second approximation of 3.1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DWN
On Tue, Oct 17, 2006 at 06:40:51AM +1000, Andrew Donnellan wrote: BTW is there a reason why debian-publicity has the words (dead list) after it in some of the indices? (e.g. stats page) Just not updated yet? Yes, it got revived a couple of months ago, after being dead for years. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian 2.4.3
This question should be on debian-user. On Wed, Sep 27, 2006 at 09:04:57PM -0700, myrddinbach wrote: Ive searched around to no avail but Im actually interested in getting an i386 copy of Debian 2.4.3. No such version exists. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rethinking stable updates policy
On Sat, Aug 26, 2006 at 08:43:53AM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: It would be good, though, especially in order to have some support for hardware that has entered the market after the last Debian release, if there would be an outside repository for updated kernel and installer packages. However, nobody considered this important enough yet. (Hint! Hint!) Kenshi MUTO provides some at http://kmuto.jp/debian/d-i/ cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal: The DFSG do not require source code for data, including firmware
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 08:30:23AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: he doesn't use the leader@ address even on issues related to his DPL role, as i well know, so this is no guarantee. AFAICT, he always signs those mails with DPL in the signature. Plus, at least in this thread, he did use [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Extremadura Regional Government of Spain will switch to Debian GNU/Linux and ODF on all the computers
On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:22:53PM -0400, Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Michael Banck wrote: On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:30:21PM +0200, Jesus Climent wrote: According to Millan, You seem to not have introduced Mr. Millan until this point, maybe write his full name and position/involvement to this here. Sorry if I just missed it. He said at the begining The councillor for Infrastructures and Technological Development, Luis Mill???n de V???zquez de Miguel, met the press this Friday... Ah, I searched the text for 'Millan' (as spelt later on), so it didn't catch the accent. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Minutes of an Ubuntu-Debian discussion that happened at Debconf
On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 02:32:22PM -0500, Ean Schuessler wrote: One can also make the argument that since Ubuntu paid people to fork away from Debian code that they should return the favor and do the brunt of the work to reintegrate the useful parts back in. While that might be nice if Canonical decided to do so, I think in the same way we cannot tell our volunteers how to spend their time to work on Debian, we cannot tell companies who derivate from us how to spend their money to work with Debian. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Algemeine Frage
debian-project is an english list, forwarding to the german support list. debian-project ist eine englischsprachige Liste, debian-user-de ist besser für diese Fragen geeignet. On Sun, Jun 25, 2006 at 06:35:00PM +0200, Norman Nahrgang wrote: ich wollte mal fragen was der Debian Strudel bedeutet und wie Mediacompatibel Debian ist (unterstützte formate). Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Call for a new DPL mediation ... This will be the only thread i will reply to in the next time about this issue.
On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 02:01:47PM -0700, Chris Waters wrote: Frankly, as someone who is looking into setting up a support team for some debian packages, I am appalled at the notion that the DPL can dictate who can and can't be a member of my team. The DPL did not decide that Sven be removed from d-i SVN access. Rather, he decided that, after mediation, he should not be *put back* into SVN acces against the will of the d-i admins. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (Debian's Two Choices) The influx of women and the outflux of men. The end of debian as a distro and it's emergance as a women's rights pulpit.
On Sun, Jun 11, 2006 at 05:13:59PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: [debian-women and most named people trimmed. I believe it's not wanted there.] It's not wanted on -project, either. Please discuss with this gentleman in private if you have the urge to do so. thanks, Michael -- Oracle in general is nature's way of separating fools from their money. -- J.H.M. Dassen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shouldn't we have more ftp masters ?
On Thu, Jun 01, 2006 at 08:15:42AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: Now, the remaining question that has me baffled is how you reconcile the factof waiting for NEW, with the 'vitality' part of your DPL plateform. Wait, we sent off the ftp-assistant on a two-week vacation in *Mexico* to relax and gain `vitality', and now you're still complaining? Michael -- mjg59 KDE ABSTRACTED MY ABSTRACTION LAYER -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Shouldn't we have more ftp masters ?
Your mail is not about general development of the Debian distribution and thus rather on topic on debian-project, please follow-up there. On Sun, May 28, 2006 at 08:27:26PM +0200, Hans Kroegle wrote: It seems that the ftp-masters haven't looked at the NEW queue during the last month (or maybe only for java), and its size is still increasing (see http://haydn.debian.org/~corsac-guest/new/ ). I agree that they may want to take vacations, but IMHO, NEW is such an important process for Debian that it shouldn't be left aside like this for a so long time. It's why I think that if there isn't currently enought ftp-masters to ensure that the NEW process will work without interruptions, we should have more ftp-masters. I don't think NEW is that critical, but it would sure be nice if it gets processed from time to time. The FTP-masters are choosing additions to their team themselves and I think they are the best in place to judge when they need help. As for the current situation of both ftp-assisstants being on leave, maybe one of the regular ftp-masters could jump in and process the NEW queue for the time being? I have CC'd them on this mail. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Issues regarding powerpc and Sven
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 01:56:42PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: So, three weeks of lost time, and the lack of a neutral and transparent meditation attempt means this was doomed in the first place, Maybe it was doomed in the first place, but personally I doubt this would be the fault of the mediators. And if anything, we now have an official decision on this matter (even though you might not like it), so we can all move along. Michael -- Np237 FUCKING STUPID BITCH LIBXKLAVIER SUX jordim while we're on the subject, does anyone want to maintain that one? :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The powerpc port should be removed from etch release candidates ...
On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 03:42:31PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 08:52:15AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 08:06:32AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: btw, it seems you violated your `one mail per thread' policy, at least as far as this thread being on -project is concerned. Michael -- marcus for example, there is only one correct way to blank a screen, and look at the number of screensavers marcus people think it's cool, but apparently they have not seen reservoir dogs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: irc.debian.org
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 04:55:38PM -0400, Joe Smith wrote: If the move is done, the FN channels should be kept open and the topic should redirect users to OFTC. It could just live on like it does now. Then any packages that reference the FN channel should be updated. Packages should mention irc.debian.org if they talk about Debian irc channels, not some particular network. Otherwise there would be split between the networks. There has always been a duplication of channels. Michael -- Einstein's got fans that'll stand in line, to see him speak with his hands like a pantomime -- Ugly Duckling, Einstein's On Stage -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: irc.debian.org
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 07:25:50PM -0300, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) wrote: On 04/30/2006 05:46 PM, Frans Pop wrote: Just to prove you wrong: what the hell is Jabber? It is an Instant Messaging Client. It is not IRC though, so this point is moot. This thread is about IRC, let's not get into discussions about instant messaging systems in general. Michael -- tarzeau anyone else such an irssi fan? [Act: 17,19,24,37,38,97,102, 114,122,134,140,141,142,143,187,201,211,216,264,294,306,334,350, 352,353,398,458,467,520,599,678,698,718,744,751,752,753,754] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gibc
On Sun, Apr 16, 2006 at 07:37:58PM +0600, krot wrote:
At assembly glibc 2.3.5 debian sarge jumps out the Wrong course of hours.
Assembly can be incomplete.
All has collected and has installed but then during assembly of other
packages jumps out
awk: relocation error: awk: symbol _dl_catch_error, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not
defined in file ld-linux.so.2 with link time reference in what a problem and
how it{her} to correct?
Debian-project is not the appropriate place for technical issues like
these. Please ask debian-user or file a bug.
thanks,
Michael
--
Michael Banck
Debian Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 01:25:28AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Could you report such sponsors, so we may take their sponsorship privileges away? There's no technical way to do this (yet), as far as I can see. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:46:31AM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote: Documenting stuff in a wiki-like page may help *a little bit* prior to the AM assignment, but not very much. And about nothing after that, as the AM already asks (if he uses my templates or something based on that) for the contributions, so another wiki page is useless there. Keep in mind that documenting this is somewhat tedious work, and if you have to do it all at once during the NM process, it's not really fun. If you just keep updating your wiki page while you fix bugs or package things, it's not a big deal each time. Also you can probably check the continous contribution through that wiki page's history quite conveniently (though other means make this possible as well of course) Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:43:22PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: * Michael Banck ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060412 12:11]: On Wed, Apr 12, 2006 at 01:25:28AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Could you report such sponsors, so we may take their sponsorship privileges away? There's no technical way to do this (yet), as far as I can see. There is - if they don't check, you could revoke their upload privileges. That would not be specific to sponsorship. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reforming the NM process
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 06:59:44PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote: For 2.2, I'd recommend that NM's maintain a page about them on wiki.d.org (my current applicant did that, and I found that rather useful). In a glance you can see applicants that are not comited enough. Probably it's a good idea to maintain wiki.debian.org/YourName anyway, whether you're a DD, a DM, an NM or a prospective NM. But I guess it makes most sense for prospective NMs - document your contributions to Debian there (maybe with some small paragraph about your motivation) and Front Desk (and later your AM) will have it much easier to match an AM and/or check your contributions. Personally, I'd like to see this formalized in the NM process, but maybe some of the AMs (those who think this is a good idea) should just try it out and report back on how useful it is. I am not sure 6 months of sustained contributions is really necessary, I think several months or sustained contributions are alright, where both measures are up for interpretation depending on the type, quality and quantity of the contributions. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Keysignings and other meetups (Was: etch before vista)
On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 01:16:16PM -0500, Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Luk Claes wrote: Jeroen Massar wrote: On Sat, 2006-03-25 at 11:53 -0500, Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Kevin Mark wrote: On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 09:28:47PM -0500, Benjamin Seidenberg wrote: Kevin Mark wrote: Hi *, I noticed on occassion on -devel and planet that folks mention in passing that I'll be in MN in US from MAR 01 thru 05 and I'd like to have a beer and do keysigning. Would it be worthwhile to create a list like 'debian-meetup' (or debian-beer-meetup x-))that would allow folks to give this info on what would be a low-volume list. [..] I was thinking more about how easy it is to access old data. You might want to check https://www.biglumber.com/ which contains already a very nice interface for all of this. Or you might want to use https://nm.debian.org/gpg_offer.php. Have a look at https://nm.debian.org/gpg.php if you want to be listed... Cheers Luk (For those who tried to access it, that service is currently down due to a planned outage at HP). That's what I was thinking of when I suggested a wiki. The problem with the NM one is it is hard to change, and often out of date. A wiki would allow anyone to change it, without the bottleneck of going through whoever is in charge of it (Front Desk I assume). Gentlemen, there is nothing development-related about this, please take these kinds of discussions to debian-project to enhance debian-devel's signal-to-noise ratio with respect to development. thanks, Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bet there are no senior citizen developers
Hi Dan, On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 06:27:18AM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote: Bet there are also few developers over 45 years old. Probably 99% young, male. Bet there is no web page with developer age demographics. Anyway, at 45 things get fuzzy, at least for me, so I admire those older developers. Please post non-development issues to debian-project next time. Or rethink whether your issue needs posting at all. thanks, Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: uol.com.br and petsupermarket
On Tue, Mar 14, 2006 at 06:06:59AM -0300, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote: It only affects the contributors, which might not be a problem, though, as they may quite possibly turn into ex-contributors soon... Which exactly makes it a problem. I hope we lose no valued contributors (including you) over this :-/ Michael -- vorlon this freetype crap is causing a spontaneous mjg59 growth atop my pituitary gland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Forums
On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 08:02:19AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I don't see how opening a web forum only the newbies are likely to use benefits the newbies or is fair to the experienced users who volunteer to help them. People learn quickly. Those who discovered GNU/Linux a year ago and only got exposed to web forums before might be totally capable of helping others already, and are more likely to do so on their familiar media. I didn't say that web forums are bad, just that we (as in, the Debian Developers who are much more used to mailing lists) should be in a position to monitor them and participate if we had our own. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help
Hi Paul, On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 05:12:58PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: You need to stop any X displays you are using and run that command from a console. How you do this depends on how you're running X. You shouldn't reply to off-topic lists unless you tell the poster the correct place to post their question. thanks, Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Linux Forums
On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 12:12:02PM +0200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: I disagree that having more web based discussion forums for Debian is necessarily a good idea. The more forums you have, to more dispersed the people discussing Debian online are, and the more work it is for people to follow all the relevant places where discussion happens. As a result, the chance of knowledgeable answers goes down. This helps no-one. It's better to have a few well-run forums than a large number of mediocre ones. Now, I don't use web forums myself, when I can avoid them, and because of that I don't know if linuxforums.org is better than, say, debianhelp.org. If one is significantly better, then I expect users to flock there and the other one to wither off and eventually die. We can learn a lesson from the Ubuntu project here, which has officially sanctioned ubuntuforums.org and now faces problems of divided communities: None of the main developers or community leaders is active on the forums, which lead to a parallel society where new users have to help total newcomers and problems with the forums, their moderation, and code of conduct issues are frequently communicated to their community council. The forums appear to give them more trouble than mailing lists or IRC. That some of the sub-forums are bi-directionally gated to their mailing lists does not help either, as the different style of writing and quoting annoys the other side and at least at times during the past forum posts were gated anonymously to the mailing lists, which sometimes resulted in more offensive than necessary posts by those people. So I think we should be very careful whether we officially adopt a web forum as part of our support. If we did so, we will have to be present and mediate/moderate trouble. It is a bit like #debian really, where at some place most DDs had left the channel to itself, which resulted in a bad reputation both for the channel and the project. Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about debian-devel-announce
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 06:44:32PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Sorry to feed again the troll, but I would like to know what is the rationale behind removing the permissions for Andrew and not for Raphaël. This has nothing to do with the technical aspects of Debian development (too bad the M-F-T from d-d-a makes replies come here). Can we move this to -project, pretty please? thanks, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: For those who care about debian-devel-announce
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 06:25:07PM +, Dave Holland wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 06:44:32PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Raphaël has also harmed the project by implicitly linking it to Ubuntu. Don't be ridiculous. Ubuntu explicitly acknowledge that they build on Debian - see http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship - and Debian positively encourages derivative distributions - so where's the harm? Can we stop this time-wasting flame war already, please? That's not the right way to stop flame wars: 1. Wrong list, please discuss this on -project if you must. 2. Do not add opinions to it if you think you want a thread to end. cheers, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Information abount packages.d.o and experimental
On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 11:20:19AM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote: * Noèl Köthe: is it possible to get information about the problem with packages.d.o and the experimental problem? Isn't experimental being pulled from the archive or something like that? Can you elaborate, please? thanks, Michael -- Michael Banck Debian Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
