Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
Dear all, Firstly, many many many thanks for the very constructive thread. On 08/22/2012 04:05 PM, Ben Armstrong wrote: On 08/21/2012 09:05 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Along the same lines, I suggest to simplify the choices according to the ways of acquiring Debian that are more likely for users. The suggestion is implemented in the attached patch: - it put first the two options that I think are more likely for our users, i.e. downloading debian (be it in the live flavor of not), and the other options (buying CD or pre-installed systems) next - the choice of small vs large is now a sub-choice of downloading an installation image (the title of the section points to small, as I believe is the choice we recommend) Thanks. I will review/apply soon. To bring it to a test and get some extra feedback for you all, I yesterday grabbed a Mac user for a virtual installation on his laptop. I said fetch any iso and download it, starting from www.debian.org. The button at the top right was not seen. We followed the Getting Debian route. The Try Debian live was not chosen (or even not seen), the small installation images appealed most. This brought us to http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst, no difficulty up to here. Also the selection of Small CDs (which should be renamed to the singular form IMHO) was almost immediate. The problem then was with the selection of the architecture. The small text describing the 180MB download was fine, but then there was a very different skill level required to decide for the platform ... I almost dropped dead laughing ... but the selection of the architecture was not possible for that Mac guy. amd64 (the right choice) was immediately rejected, knowing that it is no longer a PowerPC (also rejected) and Apple back then did not go for AMD but Intel as a partner. i386 was only understood as the very old stuff, ... well, you can guess about the rest producing many question marks ... I was glad for the opportunity to explain the difference between kernel and userspace for kfreebsd ... We then installed stable, which hurt me just a bit who I would have preferred testing the Wheezy installation, but I did not want to change rules here. From within stable, I missed * a preparation for packages from backports.d.o * instructions how to update to Wheezy from Squeeze, we only found some Squeeze-only package management tool of Gnome. I started to become a true fan of backports and know some hard core stable/old-stable users depending much on that, praising Debian for it. To have this more readily for everyone would help also our release schedule, I am sure, since the pain to have a package just miss the release for a few days is then reduced. Maybe there is way to have backports readily in for Wheezy. For the architectures-issue on the netinst download page I suggest some support by mouse-over, maybe auto-filled with some first paragraph taken from wiki.debian.org. The ones reading the page with no JavaScript these days are also the ones who know what to download already :o) Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5039e9c1.8080...@gmx.de
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On 08/16/2012 01:24 PM, Daniel Baumann wrote: it would be nice to handle non-live images, live images, and 'installer' tasks the same way (no problem if that happens all throught the tasksel package). what would be nice its one image installer/live-cd like ubuntu does : Why is not done like that yet? sorry if this was already discussed greets! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5034d236.8080...@qindel.com
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On 08/22/2012 09:36 AM, Alberto Fuentes wrote: what would be nice its one image installer/live-cd like ubuntu does : Why is not done like that yet? sorry if this was already discussed Huh? The live images include an installer. Or did I miss your meaning? As for one image (if you meant, why not replace our installer images with live images altogether) please see the caveats about the live install images at: http://www.debian.org/CD/live/ So we're by no means ready to make the live images replace installer images, as other distributions do (but even Ubuntu offers a non-live installer image as an 'alternative' installer to handle the cases where an install from a live image is not flexible enough). Ben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5034e69a.6050...@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/21/2012 09:05 AM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Along the same lines, I suggest to simplify the choices according to the ways of acquiring Debian that are more likely for users. The suggestion is implemented in the attached patch: - it put first the two options that I think are more likely for our users, i.e. downloading debian (be it in the live flavor of not), and the other options (buying CD or pre-installed systems) next - the choice of small vs large is now a sub-choice of downloading an installation image (the title of the section points to small, as I believe is the choice we recommend) Thanks. I will review/apply soon. The wording can surely be improved. I'll come up with something. Let me know if you want a bug report against www.d.o to keep track of this. Not necessary at this time. Thanks, Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlA05ywACgkQWpTzygsnE8iFdACcCFfsEW0rE0DMInWKfgHwG3ZL mggAoJNtmcvDoBIW8iYpqAJly1NZHevR =vOoH -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5034e72e.7060...@sanctuary.nslug.ns.ca
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 08:11:13AM -0300, Ben Armstrong wrote: On 08/13/2012 05:10 AM, Philip Hands wrote: While contrasting with Ubuntu, there is also the issue of Debian Live CDs which are close to impossible to find, and if you eventually manage to find them, turn out to be too big to fit on a CD. I have put some work into www.debian.org to improve things. The click path is: Thanks a lot for working on this. Considering that installing Linux (as they say) is still something very scary for many potential users out there, advertising prominently the possibility of trying Debian out without having to touch your system is something that I consider very important. I'm happy to see interest and work in this direction. Along the same lines, I suggest to simplify the choices according to the ways of acquiring Debian that are more likely for users. The suggestion is implemented in the attached patch: - it put first the two options that I think are more likely for our users, i.e. downloading debian (be it in the live flavor of not), and the other options (buying CD or pre-installed systems) next - the choice of small vs large is now a sub-choice of downloading an installation image (the title of the section points to small, as I believe is the choice we recommend) The wording can surely be improved. Let me know if you want a bug report against www.d.o to keep track of this. Thanks for considering, Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli . . . . . . . z...@upsilon.cc . . . . o . . . o . o Maître de conférences . . . . . http://upsilon.cc/zack . . . o . . . o o Debian Project Leader . . . . . . @zack on identi.ca . . o o o . . . o . « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club » Index: index.wml === RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/distrib/index.wml,v retrieving revision 1.53 diff -u -r1.53 index.wml --- index.wml 3 Apr 2012 21:49:43 - 1.53 +++ index.wml 21 Aug 2012 10:01:50 - @@ -12,49 +12,43 @@ div class=line div class=item col50 -h2a href=netinstDownload a small installation image/a/h2 - pstrong - Use Internet to download additional files during installation. - /strong/p - p - These small qnetinst/q images can be downloaded quickly - and should be recorded onto a CD/DVD/USB disk. - These allow you to download only those Debian packages that - you actually want, but require an Internet connection on the - machine you are installing Debian onto. - /p - -ul class=quicklist downlist -lia title=Download installer for normal 32-bit Intel and AMD PC - href=stable-images-url//i386/iso-cd/debian-current-tiny-cd-release-filename/-i386-netinst.iso32-bit PC netinst iso/a/li -lia title=Download installer for 64-bit Intel and AMD PC - href=stable-images-url//amd64/iso-cd/debian-current-tiny-cd-release-filename/-amd64-netinst.iso64-bit PC netinst iso/a/li -/ul +h2a href=netinstDownload an installation image/a/h2 +pDepending on your Internet connection, you might choose between:/p +ul + lia a href=netinststrongsmall installation image/strong/a: + can be downloaded quickly and should be recorded onto a removable + disk. To use this, you will need a machine with an Internet + connection. + ul class=quicklist downlist + lia title=Download installer for normal 32-bit Intel and AMD PC + href=stable-images-url//i386/iso-cd/debian-current-tiny-cd-release-filename/-i386-netinst.iso32-bit + PC netinst iso/a/li + lia title=Download installer for 64-bit Intel and AMD PC + href=stable-images-url//amd64/iso-cd/debian-current-tiny-cd-release-filename/-amd64-netinst.iso64-bit + PC netinst iso/a/li + /ul + /li + lia larger a href=CD/strongcomplete installation + image/strong/a: contains more packages, making it easier to install + machines without an Internet connection. + ul class=quicklist downlist + lia title=Download torrents for normal 32-bit Intel and AMD PC + href=stable-images-url//i386/bt-cd/32-bit PC torrents/a/li + lia title=Download torrents for 64-bit Intel and AMD PC + href=stable-images-url//amd64/bt-cd/64-bit PC torrents/a/li + /ul + /li +/ul /div div class=item col50 lastcol - h2a href=../CD/Download large installation images/a/h2 - pstrong - Useful when the install target has no Internet connection. - /strong/p - p - The CD/DVD images can be downloaded using - a href=../CD/http-ftp/HTTP/FTP/a, - a href=../CD/torrent-cd/BitTorrent/a, or - a href=../CD/jigdo-cd/Jigdo/a. - /p - p - The large CD and DVD images contain more packages, making it - easier to install machines without an Internet connection. - However, if you get a whole set of CDs or DVDs, you will get a lot of - packages that you won't actually use. - /p - -ul class=quicklist downlist -lia title=Download torrents for normal 32-bit Intel
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/13/2012 05:10 AM, Philip Hands wrote: While contrasting with Ubuntu, there is also the issue of Debian Live CDs which are close to impossible to find, and if you eventually manage to find them, turn out to be too big to fit on a CD. I have put some work into www.debian.org to improve things. The click path is: www.debian.org Getting Debian Try Debian live before installing That page, http://www.debian.org/CD/live is supposed to be the user-facing front page for Debian Live, skewed search engine results notwithstanding. That page explains about different images, what they are for, and mentions the size constraint. Arguably, that could be shortened and/or the link to /CD/live given higher profile on the Getting Debian page for this release. I'll talk it over with the web team and work on making it better for wheezy. So, you stick Debian Live into your favourite search engine (duckduckgo.com in my case). That's too bad that people start there. If I wanted the official images for any other distribution, I think I would start at the distribution's own web site. and it takes you to http://live.debian.net/, a nice friendly looking site, with encouragingly cute icons -- clearly this is going to be easy, right? We've recently discussed within the Debian Live team that the developer-oriented focus of the live.debian.net site is not made clear enough, nor are the pointers back to the official www.d.o /CD/live front page (for users) nor http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-live (for developers) made clear enough. And in the case of the latter, the page is too sparse and somewhat redundant with the live.debian.net site. The intention when I created the devel page was to eventually put more material there, but I never got around to it. One contributor kindly provided some updates both to live.debian.net and a patch which I still need to apply to our devel page on www.d.o which I will review and finally apply by the weekend (my abject apologies for dragging my heels on that). And the second link on the page is: Download releases: stable so let's try that... Hmm, directories: I agree, for anyone other than developers involved in the project, that's not very nice and needs to be addressed. Directories are *not* a nice way to present stuff to the end users. So, after all that we've suckered people in with the cute front page, and then comprehensively wasted their time, particularly if they went to effort of downloading only to find that they've made a coaster by trying to put too big an image on their CD. Who is the we in this sentence? We (Debian) have tried to steer people in the right direction and give them everything they need directly from the www.debian.org site, as is right and proper for any official part of Debian. We (Debian Live development team) also some time ago thought it would be nice to give the live.debian.net web site a facelift, and so you see the friendly front page, which as you point out has some glaring faults still. But being a rather small team mostly concerned with improving the live build toolchain, and personally, having taken on the jobs of providing online support and ensuring the documentation is kept up-to-date with the rapid pace of development, the live.debian.net project site itself has consistently gotten shuffled back to the back burner. For my part in procrastinating further work on the site, my apologies. Again, it's clear the site needs more work to steer users back to the right pages, and I'll commit such time as I can to making it better for the wheezy release. I've heard the response that live.debian.net is actually supposed to be aimed at developers, so one shouldn't expect to find anything usable there for end users, which is fair enough, but in that case the front page should carry a prominent warning, and not have the cute icons. I am not really keen on either placing a prominent warning or in making the site uglier, but would favour some small changes to ensure that the user is steered to the material they need with a minimum of fuss while the developers are steered to the material they need, thereby satisfying both populations. It would be really nice to have working live CDs, preferably linked to From the front page along with the install CDs, accessible in one or two clicks. I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I have put a lot of work into helping make the live images themselves better in each release. On the other hand, the lion's share of my own effort has gone into support of the live build toolchain and not the end users of the images themselves. I think we (Debian) would need a stronger commitment to the official live images themselves and the support of users using them to justify raising the profile of the live images on www.debian.org. For one thing, the various desktop teams (lxde, xfce, gnome, kde) need
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On 08/16/2012 01:11 PM, Ben Armstrong wrote: I am not really keen on either placing a prominent warning or in making the site uglier the current one can't really be made much uglier anyway, however.. i'll intend to do a non-misunderstandable 'thing' on live.debian.net/index.html saying that it's 'developers here, users there (on $debian.org)' sometimes soon-ish when i'll upgrade the ikiwiki themeing. Assuming that it's even possible to trim down the packages to fit on a CD, then perhaps a $DESKTOP-light or task-livecd-$DESKTOP package with a reduced set of dependencies from the default desktop package could be created, thus giving the Debian Live people a package to use for their CD images, and somewhere to report a bug when the resulting image creeps beyond the size of a CD. That would be fantastic. it would be nice to handle non-live images, live images, and 'installer' tasks the same way (no problem if that happens all throught the tasksel package). not sure if that's reasonably possible though, since there are some merits (for how debian-cd works at least) in 'autogenerate' these lists somewhat in order to react on archive changes wrt/ cd size contstraints, rather than to rely on a somewhat 'unflexible' (as in, needs sourceful upload) meta-package farm. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Donnerbuehlweg 3, CH-3012 Bern Email: daniel.baum...@progress-technologies.net Internet: http://people.progress-technologies.net/~daniel.baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/502cd871.2030...@progress-technologies.net
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
Steffen Möller steffen_moel...@gmx.de writes: Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 20:41:15 +0200 Von: Michael Banck mba...@debian.org An: debian-project@lists.debian.org Betreff: Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:59:45PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? Whatever the reason, a lot of people seems to miss that Download box. I mean it. Yeah, I did as well, when I last looked at it. This thread pointed me to it. The Getting Debian is what jumped at me. And I had a colleague next to me whom I wanted to stop from installing Ubuntu by downloading the iso quickly since he was already burning Ubuntu's. One is guided to the Ubuntu ISOs more easily than with Debian, too, just more nerve-wrecking than with Fedora because of the extra clicks. The download link did not allow to change to Wheezy, which these days might possibly be worthwhile to announce a bit more. This reminds me: While contrasting with Ubuntu, there is also the issue of Debian Live CDs which are close to impossible to find, and if you eventually manage to find them, turn out to be too big to fit on a CD. Since I've mentioned this to a few people in person, who then said Oh, that's easy, you just ... and eventually admitted that I'm right, I'll walk you through the process in order to save you all the effort of trying it yourselves. So, you stick Debian Live into your favourite search engine (duckduckgo.com in my case). and it takes you to http://live.debian.net/, a nice friendly looking site, with encouragingly cute icons -- clearly this is going to be easy, right? And the second link on the page is: Download releases: stable so let's try that... Hmm, directories: [DIR] amd64/ 10-Apr-2012 14:16- [DIR] i386/ 10-Apr-2012 14:18- [DIR] source/ 29-Jan-2012 15:43- well let's pretend that newbies are going to know that their Intel Core processor needs amd64, and click that... Another directory: [DIR] bt-hdd/10-Apr-2012 14:17- [DIR] bt-hybrid/ 10-Apr-2012 14:16- [DIR] iso-hybrid/10-Apr-2012 14:16- [DIR] net/ 07-Apr-2012 08:37- [DIR] usb-hdd/ 10-Apr-2012 14:17- [DIR] web/ 07-Apr-2012 08:54- I guess there's a vague chance that the iso bit of iso-hybrid would sound familiar, so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt and click that... [ ] MD5SUMS07-Apr-2012 08:29 1.8K [ ] MD5SUMS.sign 07-Apr-2012 08:37 836 [ ] SHA1SUMS 07-Apr-2012 08:29 2.0K [ ] SHA1SUMS.sign 07-Apr-2012 08:37 836 [ ] SHA256SUMS 07-Apr-2012 08:29 2.6K [ ] SHA256SUMS.sign07-Apr-2012 08:37 836 [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso 29-Jan-2012 12:12 1.1G [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 12:12 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 12:12 359K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-gnome-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 12:11 31K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso29-Jan-2012 12:59 1.0G [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 12:59 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.log29-Jan-2012 13:00 302K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-kde-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 12:58 29K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso 29-Jan-2012 13:28 753M [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso.list 29-Jan-2012 13:27 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 13:28 208K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso.packages 29-Jan-2012 13:27 21K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso 29-Jan-2012 11:33 549M [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso.list29-Jan-2012 11:33 18K [TXT] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso.log 29-Jan-2012 11:33 236K [ ] debian-live-6.0.4-amd64-rescue.iso.packages29-Jan-2012 11:33
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 09:10:32AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: [Download experience on http://live.debian.net/] In contrast, http://mozilla.debian.net gives a really nice user experience that can possibly be adapted to live.debian.net or the Debian homepage. I just had a very quick glimpse at it (I do not understand much JavaScript) but there seems to be little magic involved. The lookup table part may even be auto-generated. Maybe the Debian Mozilla developers can comment on how they keep that up to date? Best regards, Manuel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120813112053.GC4416@woodstock
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 09:10:32AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: I can report this as a bug if that helps, but it seems to me that the debian-live folk need to have a chat with all the desktop packagers and come up with a solution between you (or declare it impossible, and put a warning on the live.debian.net front page that only DVD-sized images are available if you want to run a GUI) +100 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120813113005.ga6...@thinkpad.gateway.2wire.net
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:59:45PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? Whatever the reason, a lot of people seems to miss that Download box. I mean it. Yeah, I did as well, when I last looked at it. I think it is unfortunate that the button is part of the banner, I guess I quickly skip over the banner because I do not expect any important content in it and many other users might as well. Having a button left/right of the Getting Started section might be more visible. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120812184115.ge7...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 20:41:15 +0200 Von: Michael Banck mba...@debian.org An: debian-project@lists.debian.org Betreff: Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora? On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:59:45PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? Whatever the reason, a lot of people seems to miss that Download box. I mean it. Yeah, I did as well, when I last looked at it. This thread pointed me to it. The Getting Debian is what jumped at me. And I had a colleague next to me whom I wanted to stop from installing Ubuntu by downloading the iso quickly since he was already burning Ubuntu's. One is guided to the Ubuntu ISOs more easily than with Debian, too, just more nerve-wrecking than with Fedora because of the extra clicks. The download link did not allow to change to Wheezy, which these days might possibly be worthwhile to announce a bit more. I think it is unfortunate that the button is part of the banner, I guess I quickly skip over the banner because I do not expect any important content in it and many other users might as well. Having a button left/right of the Getting Started section might be more visible. This apparently trivial thing delayed my sleep for a few nights now. We are covering more architectures than Fedora or Ubuntu. Our download page should then be allowed to be more complicated. But quite a few who may be new to Linux may possibly want to be guided a bit more towards the right thing to download than what they get on http://www.debian.org/distrib/ and then http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst or http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/current/images/. And what when you want to try the current developent release not the stable one? I find this hard to find. Well, we do not want _every_ user we possibly could have. I do not have any immediate answer. We just do an awful lot of things. And not all fits on the home page. And is the web page a page for us developers? Or about us developers and how Debian works? Or should it primarily bring our product to our users so our work gets the best possible perception? Something else? Anyway, I just looked around at Ubuntu.com and like that a lot, also for what they are doing. RedHat is a catastrophe, even worse than our site at a first glimpse, SuSE a bit better than Redhat. Fedora is nice. Truly nice, not only for the download but also for the integration of communty spirits. Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120812214505.227...@gmx.net
Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
Dear all, some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org I apologise for those who feel like this had been discussed before. I do, actually. :o) My suggestion was meant to be constructive. Steffen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5024f82e.1040...@gmx.de
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
[Steffen Möller] some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier Hmmm, they have a button labeled Download Now! that links to a 64-bit live ISO. We have a button labeled Download Debian 6.0 that links to a 32/64-bit installer ISO. They have a more options link to a page that lists a zillion images plus a large section devoted to some non-free cloud computing platform. We have a Getting Debian list on our main page that links to various pages full of install image stuff. I guess I don't get how theirs is easier. Well, unless you happen to want to use that specific non-free cloud computing platform. Other than that, the experience seems pretty equivalent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120810184205.ga5...@p12n.org
Re: Presentation of iso downloads - simpler like Fedora?
On Fri, 10 Aug 2012, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: On ven., 2012-08-10 at 14:01 +0200, Steffen Möller wrote: some binary software forced me into downloading a RedHat flavour, so I went for Fedora. I found it very easy to get an ISO. I mean - very very very easy. My suggestion is to copy that for our now pending release or to make it even easier - not that I would know how to do that. They even auto-picked a good mirror for me. http://fedoraproject.org What about the direct link on top right of http://www.debian.org ? Whatever the reason, a lot of people seems to miss that Download box. I mean it. The fact that we do not use the Linux word in the front page is ALSO not helping at all. Linux is understood as something that replaces Windows so people at least grok that it makes the computer work, while operating system is some sort of computer program. -- One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond where the shadows lie. -- The Silicon Valley Tarot Henrique Holschuh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120811005945.ga23...@khazad-dum.debian.net
