Re: Debian Logo Use
Will Kaiser wrote: They only have Etch images available (at least last I checked) and we're working with Lenny and Sid. no more true; lenny and sid initial sync from last friday has finished, finally. I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do. both the homepage and 'marketing' are something nobody had yet time to spend with. if you have time for it, you're more than welcome. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 04:20:33PM -0700, Will Kaiser wrote: were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian swirl for the logo and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of those without the blessing of the Debian project and am willing to modify my project plans to an extent if you think we can negotiate. You may be asking why not just use your own name/logo?. Well, this really isn't a true distribution. It's just a slightly customized Debian install and we want people to know that. I think they're too similiar. Someone has already pointed out the URLs for the logo and trademark sites. To me you have two problems with using debi and the swirl logo. The first is yes you may run foul of the law doing this. What SPI would do is, probably at this point, theoretical but there is certainly a chance of trouble. The second problem is more likely and possibly more damaging. Some people will interpret what you are doing as trying to pass off your distribution as the real Debian project. They will then view your project in a negative light. It may be someone withing Debian, who may be less likely to cooperate, or it could be someone outside who then doesn't use the distribution or worse stil starts some huge flamewar on some blog somewhere about it. Then suddenly what you are trying to do appears to be sinister, when all you're trying to do is get Debian out there to some group of users who may not of heard of it or would use it. Bad for everyone all round. If you create a Special Packaging Group distribution with a smiling hamster in a kilt (or whatever it is called and looks) that mentions it uses Debian then that whole potiential negative press goes away. I would say using your own will mean not buying into a lot of headaches later on. Good luck on your project, anyone who can get more people using Free Software in general and Debian (derivative or not) is a good thing in my opinion. - Craig -- Craig Small GnuPG:1C1B D893 1418 2AF4 45EE 95CB C76C E5AC 12CA DFA5 http://www.enc.com.au/ csmall at : enc.com.au http://www.debian.org/ Debian GNU/Linux, software should be Free -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
Will Kaiser dijo [Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:44:05PM -0700]: (...) I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do. Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try Ubuntu?/joke I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for being anal about stability. Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
Debian on the desktop? It's called Ubuntu! -- Warm Regards, Mario A. Spinthiras Nicosia , Cyprus Blog: http://www.spinthiras.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: smario125
Re: Debian Logo Use
I agree with this. If something unstable is going to be based on Debian, then I think a different (non-Debian) name should be used. Chris. On 15/04/2008, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will Kaiser dijo [Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:44:05PM -0700]: (...) I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do. Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try Ubuntu?/joke I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for being anal about stability. Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Reasons why you may want to try GNU/Linux: http://www.getgnulinux.org/ A great GNU/Linux distro: http://wiki.gnewsense.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
On mar, 2008-04-15 at 20:48 +0300, Mario Spinthiras wrote: Debian on the desktop? It's called Ubuntu! plonk. -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian Logo Use
* Gunnar Wolf ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [080415 19:45]: Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try Ubuntu?/joke i dont think that is a reasonable approach. if testing quality is good enough and useful to people why would you hide away that it is debian under the hood by rebranding it? Why deny debian a good marketing opportunity where debian or debi can be found in other places then the debian/control file? I am in favour of using debian prominently for products derived from debian. the knoppix, xandros and ubunut effect should not become the rule but rather the exception. I understand you have your own motivations, and I know our testing is more workable and more stable than many official distributions... But anyway, Debian releases _are_ stable, and presenting Debiwhatever as a testing snapshot won't do much good to Debian's reputation - known for being anal about stability. I dont agree here. there is a distribution testing, we make it available, it is from debian. So if people want to use it, let them and make it easy for them. it is their risk and they are grown up. It provides a lot of value, too: You get the most up to date software at an unparallelt stability, all the time, at no monatary cost. In my oppinion we should stop telling people NOT to use it but do the opposite. whoever needs a cutting edge distribution and loves upgrading real frequently is destined for testing in my oppinion. here upgrading works, even! There is a psychological problem in recommending a distro called testing as it implies lower quality, though. I would suggest to call it something fun and inspiring like perpetual-upgrade or so. /andreas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:06:45PM +0200, Andreas Schuldei wrote: * Gunnar Wolf ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [080415 19:45]: Umh... I know this will sound quite boring to you - But I (and I guess, many of the Debian people) do not like the idea of presenting testing/unstable snapshots as something ready for the end-user to install. Hey, if they want unstable software, why not try Ubuntu?/joke i dont think that is a reasonable approach. if testing quality is good enough and useful to people why would you hide away that it is debian under the hood by rebranding it? Why deny debian a good marketing opportunity where debian or debi can be found in other places then the debian/control file? I believe that you won't upset or confuse anyone if you... - Call it Debian only if it is indeed (some subset of) Debian. - Call it based on Debian if some but not all is Debian. - Call it stable only if all is from the current stable release. See also the recent thread at debian-custom... - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ - Enden er nær: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIBRsDn7DbMsAkQLgRAuhRAKCWvt9qifTt38dPThYaVHl8PDemRgCeJIzk 6se2vggw02bI6ePT8slYz0s= =GAYF -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Debian Logo Use
(CC'ed since I'm not sure if you are a list subscriber) On 04/14/2008 06:20 PM, Will Kaiser wrote: My name is Will and I am working on a project aimed to help promote Debian on the desktop. We've been pretty quiet about the project, so our presence isn't really known on the internet yet. We will probably fly under the radar until later this year. Even then, who really knows. Our target go live at this point is 6/2008, but we may go sooner based on the outcome of some final testing. The reason I am contacting you is that I need to decide between two names, and two logos. One set of name/logo are mine. The other set are yours. If I were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian swirl for the logo and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of those without the blessing of the Debian project and am willing to modify my project plans to an extent if you think we can negotiate. You may be asking why not just use your own name/logo?. Well, this really isn't a true distribution. It's just a slightly customized Debian install and we want people to know that. Why reinvent the wheel? The main project goals are: 1) Provide a free installable live cd of Debian Lenny/Sid Have you considered joining the Debian Live project? http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/ 2) Provide an immediately usable copy of Debian with some of the more daunting post-install tasks done already 3) Provide a means to demo Debian as a viable Desktop Linux alternative 4) Give users that would otherwise choose a derivative (like Ubuntu) a good reason not to 5) Do all of this while staying as close to the Debian core and default desktop installation as possible All covered by the Debian Live project. ;) For the most part, we just want learn about Linux and give back to the Debian community, from which many others (including ourselves) have The best way to contribute would be join an active project, I think. taken from. The main reason I believe our project must be separate from Debian is that you will probably not be an advocate of some of the software I plan to include. While we plan on staying very close to the core, we have only been successful with a non-debian live cd installer. Does this not conflict with #5 above? Our plans for use of the logo are within the logo/name image on our website and for use as the replacement for the Gnome foot icon on the Applications menu. Please let me know what types of restrictions we might be facing and if there are any considerations we need to make on our end. Refer to the Debian logo licensing on the logos page: http://www.debian.org/logos/ -- Kind Regards, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
Please let me know what types of restrictions we might be facing and if there are any considerations we need to make on our end. Michael already pointed you to the Debian Open Use Logo License. You cannot use the logo this way. Additionally, Debian is a trademark. You can see the Trademark Licensing Policy on http://www.debian.org/trademark. The application of the law is subjective, and I'm not a lawyer, but for example Microsoft sued Linspire, Inc for using Lindows. Of course, they lost pitifully and SPI has less money to waste than Microsoft, but on the other hand Debian is not a common noun and your project changes the end of the string rather than the start. So I guess you cannot use more than the first 4 letters, and I don't know if you can use that much. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
Yeah, I had actually already looked into the Debian Live CD project. Unfortunately there is no product available for download at this time that I can line up with my images for comparison. So, we really have no idea what's included on those images. They only have Etch images available (at least last I checked) and we're working with Lenny and Sid. I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do. Thanks for your input. I think our name will be fine if I go with the alternate choice anyway and still clearly identify our loyalty to the Debian core. That's the main point of this anyway. We're not trying to start any fires... just asking questions while trying to support something we love. Thanks! On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Michael Shuler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (CC'ed since I'm not sure if you are a list subscriber) On 04/14/2008 06:20 PM, Will Kaiser wrote: My name is Will and I am working on a project aimed to help promote Debian on the desktop. We've been pretty quiet about the project, so our presence isn't really known on the internet yet. We will probably fly under the radar until later this year. Even then, who really knows. Our target go live at this point is 6/2008, but we may go sooner based on the outcome of some final testing. The reason I am contacting you is that I need to decide between two names, and two logos. One set of name/logo are mine. The other set are yours. If I were to go the latter route, I would be using the Debian swirl for the logo and the word debi in the name. I won't do either of those without the blessing of the Debian project and am willing to modify my project plans to an extent if you think we can negotiate. You may be asking why not just use your own name/logo?. Well, this really isn't a true distribution. It's just a slightly customized Debian install and we want people to know that. Why reinvent the wheel? The main project goals are: 1) Provide a free installable live cd of Debian Lenny/Sid Have you considered joining the Debian Live project? http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/ 2) Provide an immediately usable copy of Debian with some of the more daunting post-install tasks done already 3) Provide a means to demo Debian as a viable Desktop Linux alternative 4) Give users that would otherwise choose a derivative (like Ubuntu) a good reason not to 5) Do all of this while staying as close to the Debian core and default desktop installation as possible All covered by the Debian Live project. ;) For the most part, we just want learn about Linux and give back to the Debian community, from which many others (including ourselves) have The best way to contribute would be join an active project, I think. taken from. The main reason I believe our project must be separate from Debian is that you will probably not be an advocate of some of the software I plan to include. While we plan on staying very close to the core, we have only been successful with a non-debian live cd installer. Does this not conflict with #5 above? Our plans for use of the logo are within the logo/name image on our website and for use as the replacement for the Gnome foot icon on the Applications menu. Please let me know what types of restrictions we might be facing and if there are any considerations we need to make on our end. Refer to the Debian logo licensing on the logos page: http://www.debian.org/logos/ -- Kind Regards, Michael
Re: Debian Logo Use
On lun, 2008-04-14 at 21:44 -0700, Will Kaiser wrote: Yeah, I had actually already looked into the Debian Live CD project. Unfortunately there is no product available for download at this time that I can line up with my images for comparison. So, we really have no idea what's included on those images. They only have Etch images available (at least last I checked) and we're working with Lenny and Sid. The debian-live goal is not to have already-generated images, but to give people (including you and your project) a way to generate custom images really fast. I'm also pretty sure our goals are aligned a bit differently. The marketing on the Debian Live CD website doesn't spell out that they are targeting Desktop Linux or use as an alternative to derivatives such as Ubuntu and friends. We also use a cool but non-standard apt configuration. Mainly though, it's the marketing on the live cd project that won't work with our primary goal. To appeal to (non-techie) Ubuntu users, you pretty much need to use puppets and pictures to explain what your distro can do. Yeah but in your case, debian-live would (have) help(ed) you to build your project by not taking care of how the cd should boot, in various environment, how to build the cd itself, etc. Take a look at the project, it can be really helpful. I already used a debian-live with the 3 main desktop environments on a demo box without hard drive, for Solutions Linux 2008. Cheers, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian Logo Use
On Thursday 11 January 2007 00:24, Tony Hunt wrote: Ive seen this web page a few times and could not help wonder what the relationship was to the Debian project. Is this the Debian Logo being used ? Maybee someone at Debian should look at this .. http://www.elcom.gr/sv2agw/ Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across our logo in noodle soup...). Unless the logo is the exact same shape and/or is used for a service that could be confused with Debian, there is no real conflict of interest or basis for legal action. In this case I don't see that we need to take any action. Thanks for alerting us to this page though. Cheers, FJP pgpexBFhfAJWq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian Logo Use
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frans Pop wrote: Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across our logo in noodle soup...). Maybe setting up a gallery of those would be a fun thing to do? http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLogoMisunderstandings anyone? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFpoNRztOe9mov/y4RAuzBAJsGVQCfIh1WdbR400gQN/TK3Q3yhwCeISKg U/3yJNJO7TM7GDz/TvrvJZo= =U3vL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Logo Use
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 10:31:00AM +0100, Frans Pop wrote: On Thursday 11 January 2007 00:24, Tony Hunt wrote: Ive seen this web page a few times and could not help wonder what the relationship was to the Debian project. Is this the Debian Logo being used ? Maybee someone at Debian should look at this .. http://www.elcom.gr/sv2agw/ Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across our logo in noodle soup...). Unless the logo is the exact same shape and/or is used for a service that could be confused with Debian, there is no real conflict of interest or basis for legal action. In this case I don't see that we need to take any action. Thanks for alerting us to this page though. Cheers, FJP Hi Frans, I have read a few comments like yours over the last year, like the one about the Russian cellphone shop. Would it be helpfull to include this short paragraph to make it clear that this alone is not reason enought for Debian to take action against someone and thus avoid people asking about these incidents needlessly. ... Unfortunately the Debian swirl is relatively easy to create and quite a few people seem to get basically the same idea (I recently came across our logo in noodle soup...). Unless the logo is the exact same shape and/or is used for a service that could be confused with Debian, there is no real conflict of interest or basis for legal action. ... I suppose a wishlist bug referencing this email against the www.debian.org would be sufficient? The logo web page does not include anything like this. cheers, Kev - -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal | 'under construction' | | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keysever: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFpr6Tv8UcC1qRZVMRAlllAJ4/KIkuvakqo64JvnPy4CDUdK1ouwCeL3a5 pilWoIa9RcD6vIPrg/cYhHA= =qrDz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
