Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 12:15:46PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
Well, if you are the author, even though the final print-copy files
are not freely distributable (as they include layout that's usually
property of the publishing journal/editorial), you can always decide
to share publicly the final version you sent for them to form. Having
that, together with full publication information, should be enough.
Indeed, you (as an author) often have the right to redistribute the so
called preprint. But even in that case, you often are constrained about
the origin of your redistribution. My experience with major computer
science publishers (Sprinter, Elsevier, etc.) is that they grant you the
right to redistribute preprints only *from your homepage*. Letting aside
DFSG-freeness, such clauses make it difficult to form an archive of
Debian-related literature that can be hosted on Debian infrastructure.
Nonetheless, there is value also in just collecting a bibliography of
DOI-s or of similar identifiers. For scholars, that is useful as a
research starting point; for Debian, that is useful in showing the
importance of Debian in various sciences, as a very interesting subject
of study.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
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ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela ...| ..: |.. -- C. Adams
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Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
Paul Wise dijo [Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 04:47:52PM +0200]: What about collecting the actual document and attaching them to this page (license permitting), or a DOI link? What about merging the separate publication list into this page (actually there was a discussion on a canonical reference file for Debian related work on debian-science some time ago)? I doubt many of them have an acceptable license for distributing, links would be great. Merging seems reasonable. Well, if you are the author, even though the final print-copy files are not freely distributable (as they include layout that's usually property of the publishing journal/editorial), you can always decide to share publicly the final version you sent for them to form. Having that, together with full publication information, should be enough. Also, thankfully, every day there are more Open Access-friendly academic publications. FWIW, my University (not a particularly liberal one, and a very large one) is pushing all of its Institutes and Faculties to set up public repositories with Open Access (yes, not necessarily DFSG-free, but a huge difference from the completely closed model used until recently). The publication itself can be considered feedback -- it is just that you need to know that it is there in order to be able to read it in order to form a personal opinion. Yeah, especially if the research is presented at DebConf. That said it is one thing to publish some research and present it at DebConf but entirely another to use those conclusions to actively push Debian in new/better directions. Please keep in mind that if you presented a preliminary work at a previous DebConf, you can still edit the event and attach the published (or updated) material. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110810171546.gf11...@gwolf.org
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Well, if you are the author, even though the final print-copy files are not freely distributable (as they include layout that's usually property of the publishing journal/editorial), you can always decide to share publicly the final version you sent for them to form. Having that, together with full publication information, should be enough. I guess that doesn't work when the University owns the copyright. Also, thankfully, every day there are more Open Access-friendly academic publications. FWIW, my University (not a particularly liberal one, and a very large one) is pushing all of its Institutes and Faculties to set up public repositories with Open Access (yes, not necessarily DFSG-free, but a huge difference from the completely closed model used until recently). That is extremely good news. Please keep in mind that if you presented a preliminary work at a previous DebConf, you can still edit the event and attach the published (or updated) material. I was thinking of more proactive work pushing Debian in new ways based on the conclusions of the study, rather than just communicating the results/conclusions. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caktje6gp1cqj03zdb4thsyd3ccfws-7pfgvcgmgv-pahwcf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 03:45:32PM +0200, Paul Wise wrote:
That made me wonder whether Debian collects references to the research
done on it somehow somewhere.
There is one mentioned here:
http://wiki.debian.org/Statistics#Scientific_papers_with_statistics_about_Debian
And some more here:
http://wiki.debian.org/research
Several of the work done in the research group I'm a member of in Paris
have directly had Debian packages and their relationships as a subject
of study, or even proposed solutions for Debian Quality Assurance. A
couple of publication listings are at:
- http://upsilon.cc/~zack/research/publications/
- http://www.mancoosi.org/papers/
Note that not all of the papers you'll find there are Debian related, so
someone needs to do some cherry picking. For the papers of which I'm
co-author, I've just done so and this is a list of the corresponding
DOIs or preprint:
- http://upsilon.cc/~zack/research/publications/cbse2011-mpm.pdf
(DOI not available yet)
- http://upsilon.cc/~zack/research/publications/studia11-dh-ocaml.pdf
(DOI not available yet)
- 10.1016/j.scico.2010.11.001
- 10.1007/978-3-642-15579-6_40
- 10.1109/MSR.2010.5463277
- 10.1109/ESEM.2009.5316017
- 10.1007/978-3-642-14819-4_19
I haven't done the same for papers I'm not co-author of, because I don't
have the DOIs handy. For all papers above you can find preprints at the
first two links I've mentioned in this mail.
I'd encourage you to contribute to the research wiki page if you find
any new/old research. The debian-publicity folks can help with
publicising any new research that comes up.
Please do, I think it's very valuable. At the same time, as a scholar in
this field, I don't think it's feasible to imagine paper (co-)authors to
actually maintain those pages. I've myself to already maintain that in
several places (e.g. for periodic review of my work by the university
and/or state) and I won't be particularly willing to do it in yet
another place. You might want to encourage it a bit more by providing
some automated submission interface (which of course will be SPAM prone
...). To be honest, it seems to me that the only way this could be kept
current is if someone other than the authors will step up and maintain a
Debian Research Bibliography from within Debian.
We might also want to find an interesting place where to link this from
www.d.o, as it might increase the visibility.
As a last data point, several DebConf-s ago (= 2007, at least),
Benjamin Mako Hill held a BoF about research done on and around
Debian. It was from all point of views (social sciences, computer
science, etc.), but I'm pretty sure the BoF was based on some
bibliography of his. You might want to check that with him.
Personally I feel that research without feedback to Debian is
suboptimal, we should be able to learn from studies of Debian and
change in positive ways as a result.
Yes, but it should go both ways. I've been doing myself research which
has an impact on Debian (the EDOS toolchain, apt-cudf now in
experimental, etc.) and I can assure you that the overhead for
scientists to have such an impact is enormous when compared to the usual
scholar work-flow. I cannot imagine scholars with low degree of
involvement in Debian (arguably, my own involvement in Debian is quite
high) managing to have an impact on us. The entry barrier is very high
for them. So if we, as in Debian, want to benefit from research
outcomes, it should *also* be us reaching out to scholars and try to
integrate their work.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela ...| ..: |.. -- C. Adams
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Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 10:22:37AM -0400, Michael Hanke wrote:
What about collecting the actual document and attaching them to this
page (license permitting), or a DOI link?
DOI, both with or without link, would be very useful.
Given the (sad) situation of research publication licenses, I doubt we
can put on the wiki many publication PDFs, including preprints. As an
author, most of the agreements I have to sign with publishers allows me
to publish preprints on my homepage, but not to redistribute them
elsewhere; and I can hardly make the point that a wiki page on
wiki.debian.org collecting papers from many scholars is my
homepage... (This is so ignoring the fact that I generally don't care
about those restrictions and I publish on my homepage all preprints as
some sort of resistance to the system; of course this is something I
could do on my homepage but that I cannot propose for the Debian wiki.)
What we could do is adding links to PDF available on entities like
CiteSeer, which are borderline legal in many cases, but at least are
external to the Debian wiki.
What about merging the separate publication list into this page
(actually there was a discussion on a canonical reference file for
Debian related work on debian-science some time ago)?
Note, these question are meant like: Is there consensus on doing it this
way, not that somebody else should do it ;-)
I think that if you are willing to do that yourself, the consensus will
be vacuously there :)
Thanks for raising this topic,
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela ...| ..: |.. -- C. Adams
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Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:27:58AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: - 10.1016/j.scico.2010.11.001 - 10.1007/978-3-642-15579-6_40 - 10.1109/MSR.2010.5463277 - 10.1109/ESEM.2009.5316017 - 10.1007/978-3-642-14819-4_19 I have added pages for the above. Should all be visible from http://wiki.debian.org/CategoryPublication At the same time, as a scholar in this field, I don't think it's feasible to imagine paper (co-)authors to actually maintain those pages. I've myself to already maintain that in several places (e.g. for periodic review of my work by the university and/or state) and I won't be particularly willing to do it in yet another place. You might want to encourage it a bit more by providing some automated submission interface (which of course will be SPAM prone ...). To be honest, it seems to me that the only way this could be kept current is if someone other than the authors will step up and maintain a Debian Research Bibliography from within Debian. If we are talking about abstract+DOI+citation I don't see much of an issue with becoming outdated. it is mostly a matter of initial submission -- it took me about a minute to paste the relevant bits into the template. I imagine it would need A LOT of papers to justify the time that would need to go into an automated submission machinery. I'd assume that people who are interested enough to communicate their research to Debian would also be able to invest this time -- as long as they can easily find where and how to place this information. I have added a snippet with instructions to the above page. Of course this is not saying that making it even easier wouldn't be a good thing. We might also want to find an interesting place where to link this from www.d.o, as it might increase the visibility. Yes please! As a last data point, several DebConf-s ago (= 2007, at least), Benjamin Mako Hill held a BoF about research done on and around Debian. It was from all point of views (social sciences, computer science, etc.), but I'm pretty sure the BoF was based on some bibliography of his. You might want to check that with him. Thanks for the note. Michael -- Michael Hanke http://mih.voxindeserto.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110719171133.GA27355@meiner
Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
Hi, On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 04:56:16PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: That's great, thanks for doing and sharing it. I agree with you that it's way more than just a fun hack, but it can be a useful tool to understand how the DD community evolves and related figures (e.g. the correlation among age periods and the amount of volunteer time can have a lot to say on able people power in Debian). That made me wonder whether Debian collects references to the research done on it somehow somewhere. I know that some DDs have graduated writing thesis on several aspects of Debian, but I couldn't find a place on Debian's websites that documents this. Google scholar offers an initial guess: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=debianum=1ie=UTF-8sa=Nhl=entab=ws but it mixes howto-style documents with actual studies on Debian, like this one: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1247454 I find the social and technical dynamics of Debian fascinating -- I'm sure I'm not alone. By exposing prior research on the project more prominently we might be able to encourage further research and maybe learn something from it. Michael -- Michael Hanke http://mih.voxindeserto.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110714133757.GC22456@meiner
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Michael Hanke m...@debian.org wrote: That made me wonder whether Debian collects references to the research done on it somehow somewhere. There is one mentioned here: http://wiki.debian.org/Statistics#Scientific_papers_with_statistics_about_Debian And some more here: http://wiki.debian.org/research I find the social and technical dynamics of Debian fascinating -- I'm sure I'm not alone. By exposing prior research on the project more prominently we might be able to encourage further research and maybe learn something from it. I'd encourage you to contribute to the research wiki page if you find any new/old research. The debian-publicity folks can help with publicising any new research that comes up. It might be interesting to link to these existing studies from debian-history or debian-timeline, you might like to submit patches. Personally I feel that research without feedback to Debian is suboptimal, we should be able to learn from studies of Debian and change in positive ways as a result. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caktje6gkpqftdgbdx8e7u5fcjvwxlsqxy-n54gxt96smeut...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 03:45:32PM +0200, Paul Wise wrote: There is one mentioned here: http://wiki.debian.org/Statistics#Scientific_papers_with_statistics_about_Debian And some more here: http://wiki.debian.org/research Thanks for the pointers! I find the social and technical dynamics of Debian fascinating -- I'm sure I'm not alone. By exposing prior research on the project more prominently we might be able to encourage further research and maybe learn something from it. I'd encourage you to contribute to the research wiki page if you find any new/old research. I will. However, I wonder if the current setup of this page is optimal. The page doesn't offer the actual papers -- only links to the people who wrote them. Not all the links actually point to something meaningful. Moreover, such links are often doomed to become invalid -- simply by the way science careers work. What about collecting the actual document and attaching them to this page (license permitting), or a DOI link? What about merging the separate publication list into this page (actually there was a discussion on a canonical reference file for Debian related work on debian-science some time ago)? Note, these question are meant like: Is there consensus on doing it this way, not that somebody else should do it ;-) It might be interesting to link to these existing studies from debian-history or debian-timeline, you might like to submit patches. Definitely! It didn't even know about debian-history. Personally I feel that research without feedback to Debian is suboptimal, we should be able to learn from studies of Debian and change in positive ways as a result. The publication itself can be considered feedback -- it is just that you need to know that it is there in order to be able to read it in order to form a personal opinion. -- Michael Hanke http://mih.voxindeserto.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110714142237.GE22456@meiner
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Michael Hanke m...@debian.org wrote: I will. However, I wonder if the current setup of this page is optimal. The page doesn't offer the actual papers -- only links to the people who wrote them. Not all the links actually point to something meaningful. Moreover, such links are often doomed to become invalid -- simply by the way science careers work. It definitely isn't optimal, it is a wiki though so improving it is easy ;) What about collecting the actual document and attaching them to this page (license permitting), or a DOI link? What about merging the separate publication list into this page (actually there was a discussion on a canonical reference file for Debian related work on debian-science some time ago)? I doubt many of them have an acceptable license for distributing, links would be great. Merging seems reasonable. The publication itself can be considered feedback -- it is just that you need to know that it is there in order to be able to read it in order to form a personal opinion. Yeah, especially if the research is presented at DebConf. That said it is one thing to publish some research and present it at DebConf but entirely another to use those conclusions to actively push Debian in new/better directions. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6FgHQ04OjXei7Jhn5XjH9ofE2D=kd-mbfmxvjado5j...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
and may be finally to push out our http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-exppsy/debian-bibliography.git with bib/debian.bib summarizing valuable references to be readily available on debian systems for the citations in the appers. Cheers, Yarik On Thu, 14 Jul 2011, Paul Wise wrote: The publication itself can be considered feedback -- it is just that you need to know that it is there in order to be able to read it in order to form a personal opinion. Yeah, especially if the research is presented at DebConf. That said it is one thing to publish some research and present it at DebConf but entirely another to use those conclusions to actively push Debian in new/better directions. -- =--= Keep in touch www.onerussian.com Yaroslav Halchenko www.ohloh.net/accounts/yarikoptic -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110714153056.gl26...@onerussian.com
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 04:47:52PM +0200, Paul Wise wrote: I will. However, I wonder if the current setup of this page is optimal. The page doesn't offer the actual papers -- only links to the people who wrote them. Not all the links actually point to something meaningful. Moreover, such links are often doomed to become invalid -- simply by the way science careers work. It definitely isn't optimal, it is a wiki though so improving it is easy ;) Indeed. Here is what I'm thinking about doing: 1. Create CategoryPublication We might want to further categorize publications whenever the number gets large enough to justify that work. 2. Create PublicationTemplate That has an outline of all the information we'd like to have per publication: title, authors, abstract, DOI, link to document at publisher website, potential document attachment, BIB snippet. 3. Create actual template instances for some publications 4. Modify http://wiki.debian.org/research to point to CategoryPublication 5. Contact authors of known publication asking them to create pages for their work -- potentially attaching preprint-versions of their papers that may not be affected by licensing issues. Comments? Michael -- Michael Hanke http://mih.voxindeserto.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110714155731.GA27647@meiner
Re: Summary of scientific research on Debian (was: DD age histogram)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:57:31AM -0400, Michael Hanke wrote: 1. Create CategoryPublication We might want to further categorize publications whenever the number gets large enough to justify that work. Done. 2. Create PublicationTemplate That has an outline of all the information we'd like to have per publication: title, authors, abstract, DOI, link to document at publisher website, potential document attachment, BIB snippet. 3. Create actual template instances for some publications While trying to craft (2) I approached (3). Here is a demo: http://wiki.debian.org/NeuroDebian/NeuroscienceRunsLinux I'd be glad to get feeback on this one. The purpose of the BIB snippet is to be able to harvest this information from the wiki and generate a Debian.bib automatically. Michael -- Michael Hanke http://mih.voxindeserto.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110714175723.GA30160@meiner
