Re: Bug#748533: Processed: Re: still unable to print

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Sat, Nov 07 2015, Maximiliano Curia  wrote:
> I support that approach for most cases, but it doesn't scale for teams like
> KDE that have only a small number of maintainers, an impressive amount of
> packages and a large number of reported bugs (and a tremendous amount of
> pending issues that shows that we are not very efficient as proxies). Also, a
> desktop environment can be used in many different ways, much more than the
> ones we can cover, and having maintainers acting as a proxy for use cases they
> don't really use or trying to follow a bug that they can't reproduce usually
> ends in a waste of time.
>
> As such, I find it better to ask submitters that have an upstream request to
> send the request upstream directly, they will provide better feedback and, in
> general, have more energy available for solving the issue.
>
> If the submitter prefers not to send the request upstream we might act as
> proxies, at least if we can reproduce the issue or understand the issue fully.

I can understand how it would be difficult for maintainers of large
numbers of packages, like the KDE team.  I sympathize with that, and
definitely appreciate your efforts.

I still feel like there should be a better way, though.  In order for me
to submit a bug upstream to KDE I had to go through the process of
registering with bugs.kde.org, and then submitting the bug, all after I
had already submitted the bug to the BTS.  Imagine every user going
through this process to submit upstream bugs for all packages they use.
It's a pretty high barrier, one that I'm sure most users would never
bother with.

Package maintainers almost certainly already have accounts with the
upstream issue trackers for the software they maintain, so are in a much
better position to file bugs upstream than the average user.  Certainly
the overall time spent on filing bugs would be greatly reduced if users
only had to deal with the BTS, and package maintainers handled upstream
forwarding.

I guess the ideal would be an easy way for package maintainers to
forward bugs upstream.  It seems like this could somehow be scriptible,
such that it's little more than the push of a button for the
maintainer to forward a bug upstream.

> Sure, the upstream bug tracker is a bugzilla bug tracker hosted in
> https://bugs.kde.org, in order to submit a new bug you'll need to be signed
> in, which means you probably need to create a new account.
>
> The "New" link at the top of the page starts the new bug submission process,
> you'll need to fill the product (okular) component (Printing) and then fill
> the rest of the fields as you see fit. It's okay to add the Debian bug url in
> the bug description, but try to make the bug report self contained adding the
> important pieces of information to the bug description.
>
> After submitting the bug upstream you could link a Debian bug to the upstream
> bug using the debbugs forwarded command. But in this case a message to this
> thread with the bug url would suffice.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=355005

Thanks so much for the attention, and for you work as maintainers.  It's
much appreciated.

jamie.


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Re: Bug#748533: Processed: Re: still unable to print

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Thu, Nov 05 2015, Maximiliano Curia  wrote:
>> Just saying "install cups-bsd" is not actually a
>> good solution to the problem.  If for whatever reason the user doesn't
>> have cups-bsd installed, they have no way to know that the problem is
>> the lack of that package.  In the interest of user it would be a lot
>> more generous to provide a notification that printing is not possible
>> without the cups-bsd package installed.
>
> Right, that's an upstream bug, I think it would be better if okular used
> qprinter directly instead of having a tweaked qprinter implementation, but
> that might not be feasible, hopefully upstream should be able to assess this.
> Could you report this bug upstream?

Thanks for the response, Max.

I guess the issue comes down to how much one thinks package maintainers
should take responsibility for upstream issues in Debian software.  I'm
of the opinion that package maintainers should be the liaison between
upstream and the Debian community.  In my opinion, any bug in Debian
software should be filed in the BTS.  If the issue is not just in
packaging, then the package maintainers should forward those issues
upstream if that's where they need to go, or at the very least help the
users through that process.  The maintainers can be the point people for
upstream, which relieves the burden of every user having to know how to
file upstream issues against every package that they use.  Everyone need
only know how to file issues with the BTS, and the package maintainers
can help do the rest.  At least that's how I try to operate for the
packages that I maintain.

In any event, I would be happy to file the bug upstream if you could
help direct me to the appropriate place to do so.

Thanks.

jamie.


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Bug#748533: Processed: Re: still unable to print

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Wed, Nov 04 2015, Scott Kitterman  wrote:
> Okular already Recommends cups-bsd, so reopening the bug that suggests it be 
> added makes no sense.

Hi, Scott.  I appreciate the response, but I still think we're missing
the point.  The real question is, if the bug was fixed, why am I still
suffering from it?  Just saying "install cups-bsd" is not actually a
good solution to the problem.  If for whatever reason the user doesn't
have cups-bsd installed, they have no way to know that the problem is
the lack of that package.  In the interest of user it would be a lot
more generous to provide a notification that printing is not possible
without the cups-bsd package installed.

jamie.


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Re: Processed: Re: still unable to print

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Wed, Nov 04 2015, Maximiliano Curia  wrote:
> Please avoid reopening old bugs, it's better to ask in the debian-kde users
> list or in the #debian-kde irc channel, if that wouldn't help then open a new
> one. The issue that was reported here was fixed: cups-bsd was added as a
> recommends.

Hi, Max.  Thanks for the response.

I don't see the problem with re-opening old bugs if that is what is
called for.  If the problem persists, then clearly the problem was not
fully addressed, which is the situation here.  I was experiencing a
failure to print from okular.  I did due diligence in searching for an
existing bug that addressed the issue, rather than blindly filing a new
report.  I found the bug that I referenced, and since the closing of
that report didn't describe how the problem was fixed I reopened it as
not fixed.  I think that was all completely justified.

> Also, when you send a message to control your mail is not shown in the bug,
> you need to cc the bug for that.

I tried cc'ing the bug, but the message was bounced because the bug had
been archived.

> okular uses the lpr from cups, if you have a different lpr it needs to accept
> the same parameters. You could try:
> apt install cups-bsd lpr- lprng- gnuspool-

This might be a fix, but I don't think it's actually a suitable solution
to the overall problem.  Without cups-bsd installed, okular just
silently fails to print.  There is no notification to the user other
than a cryptic message to the terminal that would only ever be seen if
you were to launch okular from the terminal (which certainly most people
don't do).  It seems like a better solution could be devised.

Thanks for the help.

jamie.


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Bug#792427: kde-runtime: kwalletd undocumented

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

Package: kde-runtime
Version: 4:4.14.2-2
Severity: normal

What is this program and what is it supposed to do?

-- System Information:
Debian Release: stretch/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (600, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages kde-runtime depends on:
ii  kde-runtime-data4:4.14.2-2
ii  kdelibs5-plugins4:4.14.2-5
ii  libasound2  1.0.28-1
ii  libattica0.40.4.2-1
ii  libc6   2.19-18
ii  libcanberra00.30-2.1
ii  libexiv2-13 0.24-4.1
ii  libgcc1 1:5.1.1-12
ii  libgcrypt20 1.6.3-2
ii  libgpgme++2 4:4.14.2-2+b1
ii  libgpgme11  1.5.5-2
ii  libjpeg62-turbo 1:1.4.0-7
ii  libkactivities6 4:4.13.3-1
ii  libkcmutils44:4.14.2-5
ii  libkdeclarative54:4.14.2-5
ii  libkdecore5 4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkdesu5   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkdeui5   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkdewebkit5   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkdnssd4  4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkemoticons4  4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkfile4   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkhtml5   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkio5 4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkmediaplayer44:4.14.2-5
ii  libknewstuff3-4 4:4.14.2-5
ii  libknotifyconfig4   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkparts4  4:4.14.2-5
ii  libkpty44:4.14.2-5
ii  libkxmlrpcclient4   4:4.14.2-2+b1
ii  libntrack-qt4-1 016-1.3
ii  libopenexr6 1.6.1-8
ii  libphonon4  4:4.8.0-5
ii  libplasma3  4:4.14.2-5
ii  libpulse-mainloop-glib0 6.0-2
ii  libpulse0   6.0-2
ii  libqt4-dbus 4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqt4-declarative  4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqt4-network  4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqt4-script   4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqt4-svg  4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqt4-xml  4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqtcore4  4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqtgui4   4:4.8.7+dfsg-1
ii  libqtwebkit42.3.4.dfsg-3
ii  libsmbclient2:4.1.17+dfsg-4
ii  libsolid4   4:4.14.2-5
ii  libssh-gcrypt-4 0.6.3-4
ii  libstdc++6  5.1.1-12
ii  libwebp50.4.3-1.3
ii  libx11-62:1.6.3-1
ii  libxcursor1 1:1.1.14-1+b1
ii  oxygen-icon-theme   4:4.14.0-1
ii  perl5.20.2-6
ii  phonon  4:4.8.0-5
ii  plasma-scriptengine-javascript  4:4.14.2-2

kde-runtime recommends no packages.

Versions of packages kde-runtime suggests:
pn  djvulibre-binnone
pn  finger   none
pn  icoutils none
pn  libcanberra-pulsenone
pn  sound-theme-freedesktop  none

-- no debconf information


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