Re: Please remove live-package from Etch
Holger Levsen wrote: Holger (who's also a stable ion3 user. Or rather, have been.) Isn't that an oxymoron qua author? Regards, Joey -- The good thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please remove live-package from Etch
Hi, On Tuesday 20 March 2007 19:48, Daniel Baumann wrote: live-package as well as live-helper do require root privileges to build images, Therefore, I don't think that your argument is an issue in the real world: * I assume that everyone who has the right to use root privileges does also have the right to install a backport. This is not true in the real world. * The backports are in place since a few hours, we only need to properly document it, so that even newbie users can follow it. It's not documented yet, so it's an issue as well. Also, from a marketing POV (/me ducks), it's a complete different story whether you say you can build live-cds with tools from Debian stable now or there are some backports, which might change anytime, which allow you to build live-cds of Debian stable. Live-CDs are nothing new, that we (almost) have a tool in stable that allows this, is. cleaner build, support of usb stick images, encryption support (this is actually casper doing it, but anyway), totally modular, easy customizable/extensible.. well, just about everything got better. While I appreciate this, I dont think this is a reason not to have live-package in etch. did you have a look at live helper already? No, not yet. live-package would have needed at least another 5 patches to fix its behavior from etch=testing to etch=stable. Oh well.. regards, Holger (who's also a stable ion3 user. Or rather, have been.) pgpXXxWRNpDKZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please remove live-package from Etch
Hi, On Monday 19 March 2007 07:44, Daniel Baumann wrote: now that the new live-helper was done and uploaded last week (currently in NEW), Marco and I decided that we don't want to support the old live-package anymore. Understandable from a software developer point of view, but I think from a Debian (user) point of view, this is very unfortunate. Before live-package was removed from etch, one could say, Debian etch now includes a tool, to automatically build live-cds. To try it out, just do 'sudo apt-get install live-package sudo make-live'. This is not the case anymore :-( Given that * live-package is only required on the build system and not in the live system itself * we'll providing backports of live-helper and casper for Etch anyway That's easy for you and me, but for some people installing backports is a problem, be it a technological problem or an organisational problem (only allowed to use stable). * building live systems with the newest build tool is better, even if the release it is build off is Etch/stable. Why is it better? Is the result any different? live-package produced wonderful live-cds, maybe live-helper produces better ones, but the ones from live-package also work fine. * live-package is not present in Sarge we ask you to remove live-package from Etch. IMHO you just killed progress Debian made since Sarge. Any chance to revert this decission? I'm willing to help with the consequences... I'd start by adding a nice fat pointer in the README.Debian. regards, Holger pgp8V9K2mK9uJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please remove live-package from Etch
Holger Levsen wrote: That's easy for you and me, but for some people installing backports is a problem, be it a technological problem or an organisational problem (only allowed to use stable). live-package as well as live-helper do require root privileges to build images, Therefore, I don't think that your argument is an issue in the real world: * I assume that everyone who has the right to use root privileges does also have the right to install a backport. * The backports are in place since a few hours, we only need to properly document it, so that even newbie users can follow it. * building live systems with the newest build tool is better, even if the release it is build off is Etch/stable. Why is it better? Is the result any different? cleaner build, support of usb stick images, encryption support (this is actually casper doing it, but anyway), totally modular, easy customizable/extensible.. well, just about everything got better. did you have a look at live helper already? live-package produced wonderful live-cds, maybe live-helper produces better ones, but the ones from live-package also work fine. not really. live-package would have needed at least another 5 patches to fix its behavior from etch=testing to etch=stable. Remember, the etch live-package is pretty old (early November 2006) and not compareable to the last versions from March. And there would have been at least another 5 patches required just to fix the bugs which were fixed within live-helper (e.g. proxy thing or aptitude typo comes to mind). They would have been needed to be accepted by -release, which would be additional work. This would have been a must, because I do not feel good delivering half-baken/buggy software, and I my impression is that -release would not have been lucky about handling my wishes. (now, it's too late anyway) * live-package is not present in Sarge we ask you to remove live-package from Etch. IMHO you just killed progress Debian made since Sarge. Any chance to revert this decission? I'm willing to help with the consequences... I'd start by adding a nice fat pointer in the README.Debian. such as we do not support this package. use it or do not use it - we don't care, do not ask us anything about it? :) I think that having the old live-package in etch would have made more damage to our live project than having it not in at all. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please remove live-package from Etch
Steve Langasek wrote: Ok, tagged for removal. Thanks. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please remove live-package from Etch
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:44:11AM +0100, Daniel Baumann wrote: now that the new live-helper was done and uploaded last week (currently in NEW), Marco and I decided that we don't want to support the old live-package anymore. Given that * live-package is only required on the build system and not in the live system itself * building live systems with the newest build tool is better, even if the release it is build off is Etch/stable. * we'll providing backports of live-helper and casper for Etch anyway * no other package is depending on it (one package, casper, has it in recommends though) * live-package is not present in Sarge we ask you to remove live-package from Etch. Ok, tagged for removal. Thanks, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
