Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Joost Beintema]

...
> Your comment seems to lay blame for 9/11 on the intelligence community. 
> It's fair to say that they had major flaws at that time (and possibly 
> now as well). You could argue that this specific incident could have 
> been prevented if certain measures were in place. Keep in mind, the 
> perpetrators were a determined group that was willing to accept death in 
> the pursuit of their goal. That's a combination that is nearly unstoppable.

All I hear is a war-yelling Bush but I haven' heared any good story (from
politicians) about the WHY of attacks.

Joost.

-- 
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Support open source software like
 - Linux
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Re: [work] Integrity (of Debian packages)

[Pav]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:09:02PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> You can quote Ben Franklin all you want,  but Ben Franklin's world was a 
> far simpler, easy to
> undersand and clearly not as geographical world as ours is today. 
> 
> I'm sure if Ben was alive today, he'd have a much more "updated" and 
> relative quote than a quote
> that was intended for the times he lived in.
> 
> Quoting someone who lived in the 1700's is certainly interesting, but 
> rememeber, these are the same
> folks that enslaved blacks and killed Indian's.  Time's have changed, 
> the world is different.

You are obvisously failing to understand that Benjamin Franklin's words
are not related to a propagated event used to form a public opinion, but
are, instead, concerning the eternal natural priciples of the human
personality (the Human Rights).

> If you asked me 2 years ago "Hey, do you think some nut job's will 
> attack and fly plane's into the
> WTC?".  I would have laughed and said "nah, never happen.".  Today, I've 
> been re-schooled, and
> I'm an old man (38), I believe anything is now possible even in the 
> United State's.

Your own words boldly point out that:

1. You believe there are "nut job's" (maybe "nut-jobs"?).
2. You believe your country (the USA) is the Promised Land.
3. You think that 38 is a big number that makes the difference
   between the wise man and the fool.

1. People all aroung the world share the same characteristcs. A few
percent of them are insane, about 0.1% are born with genetic
disharmonies [some fraction of this includes physically inversed
(homosexual)]. The greatest fraction, however, (probably about 99%) do
not have any natural anomalies and are simply like you. They would
naturally want to have a spouse, a family, and not a great amount of
stress.
In oder to kidnap a plane, one obviously may not have many
anomalies, and I think we can be firmly sure that the "terrorists" were
no different than you. They, however, were carefully moralized to think
they were doing "the Right Thing". In fact, I believe that if your
government tells you that "the barbarian terrorism from the primitive
eastern Islamic coutries cannot be beared any more", and that they "need
you to stop the world injustice", you will enroll in "your" army and do
just what the plane kidnappers have done. If you fall under the
day-and-night control of your military services, I think we can foget
about you. There are impeccable psychological techniques for making you
do anything (some very effective of them developed during the Korean
War).

2. The USA is the Canaan not for the mere people, but for the Rulers and
for the propaganda. Maybe more that 80% of your country's population
watches TV, reads magazines and papers, and goes to the cinema every
day. You live in a country that is among the best internet-supplied
ones. In short, well above 80% of the people in your country are exposed
to propaganda daily. A tiny fact from your distant school years which
you have probably forgotten is that during World War II, Germany
released a large number of cheap radio receivers with special discounts
in order to cover its population informationally better.
You live in the country of ready opinions, stereotypes and
purposefully selected facts. Do you hate the Albanians from Kosovo? The
Afghnistani "who sheltered Bin Laden"? The Iraqi? Do they deserve to be
ruled out from Earth's face? I don't know your answers, but before you
shout them out to the public, please, be ready to tell me what you know
about the Albanians, the Afghanistani and the Iraqi? Have you ever seen
their countries? Do you know any aspect of Saddam Hussein's
dictatorship?
Don't be the one to jump hastily and carelessly at conclusions,
because such are the people who make _"everything"_ possible, especially
in the United States.

3. So you say you have been greeted thirty-eight times with the same old
song "Happy birthday to you"? I don't know what kind of argument you
think this is. However, I can say that the magic number 38 does not save
you from frequent punctuation errors and poor organisation of written
thoughts, and especially from the lack of your argumentation.
If you had not been trying to reach my father in age, but were
rather a brand new person in my milleniums-old country, you would have
witnessed a radical political change. You would have seen a society of
health and intelligence (a society which has given professors working at
famous universities such as Harvard, scientists working with celebrities
such as Stephen Hawking, numerous inventors, artists who have
participated in the development of such streams as Expressionism, ...).
Then you would have observed how this society is replaced by a
generation of slaves to the advertisement. You would have heard the
national and classical music give way to rap, misanthropic metal and
other low-quality recordings. You would have felt the growing em

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Joost Beintema]

...
> Your comment seems to lay blame for 9/11 on the intelligence community. 
> It's fair to say that they had major flaws at that time (and possibly 
> now as well). You could argue that this specific incident could have 
> been prevented if certain measures were in place. Keep in mind, the 
> perpetrators were a determined group that was willing to accept death in 
> the pursuit of their goal. That's a combination that is nearly unstoppable.

All I hear is a war-yelling Bush but I haven' heared any good story (from
politicians) about the WHY of attacks.

Joost.

-- 
1 1

-
Support open source software like
 - Linux
 - Apache
 - PHP
 - MySQL
 - Horde
and many others


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [work] Integrity (of Debian packages)

[Pav]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:09:02PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> You can quote Ben Franklin all you want,  but Ben Franklin's world was a 
> far simpler, easy to
> undersand and clearly not as geographical world as ours is today. 
> 
> I'm sure if Ben was alive today, he'd have a much more "updated" and 
> relative quote than a quote
> that was intended for the times he lived in.
> 
> Quoting someone who lived in the 1700's is certainly interesting, but 
> rememeber, these are the same
> folks that enslaved blacks and killed Indian's.  Time's have changed, 
> the world is different.

You are obvisously failing to understand that Benjamin Franklin's words
are not related to a propagated event used to form a public opinion, but
are, instead, concerning the eternal natural priciples of the human
personality (the Human Rights).

> If you asked me 2 years ago "Hey, do you think some nut job's will 
> attack and fly plane's into the
> WTC?".  I would have laughed and said "nah, never happen.".  Today, I've 
> been re-schooled, and
> I'm an old man (38), I believe anything is now possible even in the 
> United State's.

Your own words boldly point out that:

1. You believe there are "nut job's" (maybe "nut-jobs"?).
2. You believe your country (the USA) is the Promised Land.
3. You think that 38 is a big number that makes the difference
   between the wise man and the fool.

1. People all aroung the world share the same characteristcs. A few
percent of them are insane, about 0.1% are born with genetic
disharmonies [some fraction of this includes physically inversed
(homosexual)]. The greatest fraction, however, (probably about 99%) do
not have any natural anomalies and are simply like you. They would
naturally want to have a spouse, a family, and not a great amount of
stress.
In oder to kidnap a plane, one obviously may not have many
anomalies, and I think we can be firmly sure that the "terrorists" were
no different than you. They, however, were carefully moralized to think
they were doing "the Right Thing". In fact, I believe that if your
government tells you that "the barbarian terrorism from the primitive
eastern Islamic coutries cannot be beared any more", and that they "need
you to stop the world injustice", you will enroll in "your" army and do
just what the plane kidnappers have done. If you fall under the
day-and-night control of your military services, I think we can foget
about you. There are impeccable psychological techniques for making you
do anything (some very effective of them developed during the Korean
War).

2. The USA is the Canaan not for the mere people, but for the Rulers and
for the propaganda. Maybe more that 80% of your country's population
watches TV, reads magazines and papers, and goes to the cinema every
day. You live in a country that is among the best internet-supplied
ones. In short, well above 80% of the people in your country are exposed
to propaganda daily. A tiny fact from your distant school years which
you have probably forgotten is that during World War II, Germany
released a large number of cheap radio receivers with special discounts
in order to cover its population informationally better.
You live in the country of ready opinions, stereotypes and
purposefully selected facts. Do you hate the Albanians from Kosovo? The
Afghnistani "who sheltered Bin Laden"? The Iraqi? Do they deserve to be
ruled out from Earth's face? I don't know your answers, but before you
shout them out to the public, please, be ready to tell me what you know
about the Albanians, the Afghanistani and the Iraqi? Have you ever seen
their countries? Do you know any aspect of Saddam Hussein's
dictatorship?
Don't be the one to jump hastily and carelessly at conclusions,
because such are the people who make _"everything"_ possible, especially
in the United States.

3. So you say you have been greeted thirty-eight times with the same old
song "Happy birthday to you"? I don't know what kind of argument you
think this is. However, I can say that the magic number 38 does not save
you from frequent punctuation errors and poor organisation of written
thoughts, and especially from the lack of your argumentation.
If you had not been trying to reach my father in age, but were
rather a brand new person in my milleniums-old country, you would have
witnessed a radical political change. You would have seen a society of
health and intelligence (a society which has given professors working at
famous universities such as Harvard, scientists working with celebrities
such as Stephen Hawking, numerous inventors, artists who have
participated in the development of such streams as Expressionism, ...).
Then you would have observed how this society is replaced by a
generation of slaves to the advertisement. You would have heard the
national and classical music give way to rap, misanthropic metal and
other low-quality recordings. You would have felt the growing em

Re: SMTP logs : what do these mean?

[Glen Mehn]

your logs say:

before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org

looks like your IP or netblock is listed as a spam netblock. If your 
server is secure, you can go sort it out at each site, by requesting 
that your site be rechecked. Unless you're in the unfortunate position 
of being on a netblock that's blocked, from which you'd need to move 
your host.


glen

Hanasaki JiJi wrote:

2003-03-03 05:19:37
H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.22.143.178]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:43
H=(cyberproxy.com) [195.112.112.198]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:44
H=pa186.debno.sdi.tpnet.pl (cyberproxy.com)
[217.98.188.186] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected
RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:49
H=pa75.olsztyn-czestochowa.sdi.tpnet.pl (cyberproxy.com)
[217.99.120.75]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:57 H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.27.89.136]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-05 21:00:56
H=before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org
(rt.njabl.org) [209.208.0.15]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-05 21:00:56
H=before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org
(rt.njabl.org) [209.208.0.15]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-01 12:06:42
H=a217-118-49-222.bluecom.no (cyberproxy.com)
[217.118.49.222]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-01 06:40:00
H=(65.26.127.147) [218.145.25.76] (CacheFlow Server)
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

2003-02-28 22:57:14
H=(none) [216.25.173.133] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

2003-02-28 06:05:44
SMTP protocol violation: synchronization error
(next input sent too soon): rejected "DATA"
H=dial207-11.awalnet.net (server)
[212.93.207.11] U=Jumpluff

2003-02-26 09:45:43
H=(212.40.233.137) [212.40.233.137] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Unrouteable address


2003-02-15 07:58:28
H=(hyunchul) [211.194.117.170] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

2003-02-02 20:04:43
H=chello080109064240.16.15.wu-wien.teleweb.at
(wu-wien.ac.at) [80.109.64.240]
rejected VRFY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

2003-02-02 14:38:51
H=modemcable209.41-130-66.hull.mc.videotron.ca (80.37.240.252)
[66.130.41.209] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.







--
Glen Mehn   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"if you ever swallow the universe, remember to spit the dragon
back out.xx.--swan

Re: SMTP logs : what do these mean?

[Ted Parvu]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 06:08:40PM -0600, Hanasaki JiJi wrote:
> 2003-03-03 05:19:37
>   H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.22.143.178]
>   F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
> 

SPAM, SPAM, SPAM...

Somebody is trying to relay...

At least that is what it looks like to me

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  

SMTP logs : what do these mean?

[Hanasaki JiJi]

2003-03-03 05:19:37
H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.22.143.178]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:43
H=(cyberproxy.com) [195.112.112.198]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:44
H=pa186.debno.sdi.tpnet.pl (cyberproxy.com)
[217.98.188.186] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected
RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:49
H=pa75.olsztyn-czestochowa.sdi.tpnet.pl (cyberproxy.com)
[217.99.120.75]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-03 05:19:57 H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.27.89.136]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-05 21:00:56
H=before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org
(rt.njabl.org) [209.208.0.15]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-05 21:00:56
H=before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org
(rt.njabl.org) [209.208.0.15]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-01 12:06:42
H=a217-118-49-222.bluecom.no (cyberproxy.com)
[217.118.49.222]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.

2003-03-01 06:40:00
H=(65.26.127.147) [218.145.25.76] (CacheFlow Server)
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

2003-02-28 22:57:14
H=(none) [216.25.173.133] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

2003-02-28 06:05:44
SMTP protocol violation: synchronization error
(next input sent too soon): rejected "DATA"
H=dial207-11.awalnet.net (server)
[212.93.207.11] U=Jumpluff

2003-02-26 09:45:43
H=(212.40.233.137) [212.40.233.137] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Unrouteable address


2003-02-15 07:58:28
H=(hyunchul) [211.194.117.170] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

2003-02-02 20:04:43
H=chello080109064240.16.15.wu-wien.teleweb.at
(wu-wien.ac.at) [80.109.64.240]
rejected VRFY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

2003-02-02 14:38:51
H=modemcable209.41-130-66.hull.mc.videotron.ca (80.37.240.252)
[66.130.41.209] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.

Re: SMTP logs : what do these mean?

[Glen Mehn]

your logs say:

before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org

looks like your IP or netblock is listed as a spam netblock. If your 
server is secure, you can go sort it out at each site, by requesting 
that your site be rechecked. Unless you're in the unfortunate position 
of being on a netblock that's blocked, from which you'd need to move 
your host.

glen

Hanasaki JiJi wrote:
2003-03-03 05:19:37
H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.22.143.178]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-03 05:19:43
H=(cyberproxy.com) [195.112.112.198]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-03 05:19:44
H=pa186.debno.sdi.tpnet.pl (cyberproxy.com)
[217.98.188.186] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected
RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-03 05:19:49
H=pa75.olsztyn-czestochowa.sdi.tpnet.pl (cyberproxy.com)
[217.99.120.75]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-03 05:19:57 H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.27.89.136]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-05 21:00:56
H=before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org
(rt.njabl.org) [209.208.0.15]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-05 21:00:56
H=before-reporting-as-abuse-please-see-www.njabl.org
(rt.njabl.org) [209.208.0.15]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-01 12:06:42
H=a217-118-49-222.bluecom.no (cyberproxy.com)
[217.118.49.222]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
2003-03-01 06:40:00
H=(65.26.127.147) [218.145.25.76] (CacheFlow Server)
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.
2003-02-28 22:57:14
H=(none) [216.25.173.133] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.
2003-02-28 06:05:44
SMTP protocol violation: synchronization error
(next input sent too soon): rejected "DATA"
H=dial207-11.awalnet.net (server)
[212.93.207.11] U=Jumpluff
2003-02-26 09:45:43
H=(212.40.233.137) [212.40.233.137] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Unrouteable address

2003-02-15 07:58:28
H=(hyunchul) [211.194.117.170] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected RCPT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.
2003-02-02 20:04:43
H=chello080109064240.16.15.wu-wien.teleweb.at
(wu-wien.ac.at) [80.109.64.240]
rejected VRFY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2003-02-02 14:38:51
H=modemcable209.41-130-66.hull.mc.videotron.ca (80.37.240.252)
[66.130.41.209] F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Please go away.





--
Glen Mehn   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"if you ever swallow the universe, remember to spit the dragon
back out.xx.--swan
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Andrew Sayers]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> The price of freedom is costly.
> 

There is an important on-topic security issue here, albeit one as old as
civilisation itself: should the state rule the citizen, or the citizen
rule the state?

If you believe the rulers should decide the great goals, how things
should be, and what is to be allowed, you can expect to live in a state
where you can feel safe so long as you obey the curfew.  Switzerland
takes this position, and does it quite well.

If you believe that the rulers should facilitate citizens, their whims
and desires, you can expect to live in a state where you act as your own
counsel when you walk down a dark street at night.  Britain takes this
position, and does it quite well.

Traditionally, the USA has been followed the latter approach - facing
great risk (and sometimes great loss) in the pursuit of great victories.
Speaking as a Brit, I'd be sad to see America move towards a more
ordered society, but it's your society and you can run it how you like.

Now, I promised that this was on-topic, so I'd better back that up
before the rulers of debian-security decide I'm contravening their great
goals :)

A server works much like a state - it has rulers (administrators) and
citizens (users).  We, the administrators, have to decide the society
which is right for our servers.  If you're serving static content over
the web, the more you guide your disinterested users, the happier
they'll be.  If (like me) you're running a general-purpose system for
keen, knowledgeable users, you should bend to their desires - or be
labeled a BOFH.

- Andrew


pgpWwz5XO2p6v.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: SMTP logs : what do these mean?

[Ted Parvu]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 06:08:40PM -0600, Hanasaki JiJi wrote:
> 2003-03-03 05:19:37
>   H=(cyberproxy.com) [218.22.143.178]
>   F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rejected RCPT
>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Please go away.
> 

SPAM, SPAM, SPAM...

Somebody is trying to relay...

At least that is what it looks like to me

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Hubert Chan]

> "Christian" == Christian Storch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Christian> So I'm thinking about establishing an own small debian
Christian> archive out of self recompiled packages as ong as there is no
Christian> secure solution of authenticating packages!

Just make sure that the sources are signed and/or you read through every
line.  And don't forget to build your compiler from scratch in binary,
or else your compiler could have been cracked to insert a backdoor into
SSH without your knowledge.  Writing the compiler in assembly isn't
enough, because the assembler could be compromised too.  (Or maybe you
would be better off just manipulating your hard-drive by hand with an
x-acto knife and duct tape...)

And do you trust that Intel/AMD/Motorola/etc hasn't been infiltrated by
the FBI, and are recording all your system activity?

Oh my goodness!  I just realized that "reality" is just a computer
program that taps right into my brain.  Everything's just an illusion,
and the TLAs can read my thoughts! Ah! ...

Aah, paranoid delusions are so much fun.

P.S. This message is GPG signed, so that you can verify that I did
indeed write it.  Or can you really ... ?

-- 
Hubert Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.uhoreg.ca/
PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA
Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7  5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA
Key available at wwwkeys.pgp.net.   Encrypted e-mail preferred.


pgpfaCqRDDOfm.pgp
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[Hanasaki JiJi]

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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Dale Amon]

The people who fought the hijackers to the death
in Pennsylvania are now part of our national lore
on a par with the Boston Tea Party and Paul Revere's
ride.

I salute their bravery and only hope that should I
as an individual ever be in a similar situation, I
would have the guts to remember and follow their
example.

Now, could we get back to debian security? If someone
is truly interested in stopping State snooping, then
it begins with secure systems. So lets leave the
politics and get back to doing the things that make
Echelon and Carnivore obsolete.

-- 
--
   IN MY NAME:Dale Amon, CEO/MD
  No Mushroom clouds over Islandone Society
London and New York.  www.islandone.org
--

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Andrew Sayers]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> The price of freedom is costly.
> 

There is an important on-topic security issue here, albeit one as old as
civilisation itself: should the state rule the citizen, or the citizen
rule the state?

If you believe the rulers should decide the great goals, how things
should be, and what is to be allowed, you can expect to live in a state
where you can feel safe so long as you obey the curfew.  Switzerland
takes this position, and does it quite well.

If you believe that the rulers should facilitate citizens, their whims
and desires, you can expect to live in a state where you act as your own
counsel when you walk down a dark street at night.  Britain takes this
position, and does it quite well.

Traditionally, the USA has been followed the latter approach - facing
great risk (and sometimes great loss) in the pursuit of great victories.
Speaking as a Brit, I'd be sad to see America move towards a more
ordered society, but it's your society and you can run it how you like.

Now, I promised that this was on-topic, so I'd better back that up
before the rulers of debian-security decide I'm contravening their great
goals :)

A server works much like a state - it has rulers (administrators) and
citizens (users).  We, the administrators, have to decide the society
which is right for our servers.  If you're serving static content over
the web, the more you guide your disinterested users, the happier
they'll be.  If (like me) you're running a general-purpose system for
keen, knowledgeable users, you should bend to their desires - or be
labeled a BOFH.

- Andrew


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Rich Puhek]

Ted Parvu wrote:

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:

Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications

that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.





Hmm, the price of freedom is costly

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Ben Franklin

Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
have allowed those planes to hit anything.

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf



Umm, according to that document, the military could *not* take any 
action against the aircraft. They do have authority to destroy "Derelict 
Airborne Objects", but the definition of such an object does not include 
any form of manned craft. The document goes on to specify what 
assistance the military will provide to civil authorities in "piracy of 
civil aircraft":


"Military personnel will provide the following types of support: 
intercept, surveillance, lift, equipment, and communications. Military 
personnel may not participate in a search, seizure, arrest, or other 
similar activity. This restriction would include the apprehension of 
aircraft hijackers or use of military aircraft (fixed-wing or 
helicopter) or other vehicles as platforms for gunfire or the use of 
other weapons against suspected hijackers."


So it would seem that as of Sept. 11th, 2001 (the order you reference 
was issued June 1st, 2001), the military could not do anything besides 
"escort" the planes. Note the specific restriction against the use of 
weapons against suspected hijackers.




Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
that stray off course or that lose communications.  Then ask yourself
why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
the Net to understand what is really going on here.  


Ted



Yes, of course the Net is even more reliable than the government 
propaganda :-)


Granted, there's bound to be plenty of slant from the official line, but 
keep in mind the fact that any yahoo with a modem can generate a 
different view that's even less credible.


Let's also take a good look at the reality of the situation. Life isn't 
a movie, there's a finite time involved to do something as basic as 
getting an aircraft off the ground, plus transit time to fly from an 
airbase to intercept the suspect craft. Also, after the cold war ended, 
we kinda stepped down the alert level at airbases around the US, so I 
doubt there were any pilots sitting around in a ready room just waiting 
for a siren to go off, planes might not have been fuled up, planes were 
most likely not armed, etc.



--Rich

_

Rich Puhek
ETN Systems Inc.
2125 1st Ave East
Hibbing MN 55746

tel:   218.262.1130
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Rich Puhek]

Gary MacDougall wrote:



Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
their oyster.


Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ted
 



Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications

that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.





Ummm, interception wasn't the problem. Interpretation was the problem. 
Harvesting more email isn't going to solve much (and will possibly 
compound the problem) if intelligence agencies lack enough manpower to 
translate and interpret the messages.


Your comment seems to lay blame for 9/11 on the intelligence community. 
It's fair to say that they had major flaws at that time (and possibly 
now as well). You could argue that this specific incident could have 
been prevented if certain measures were in place. Keep in mind, the 
perpetrators were a determined group that was willing to accept death in 
the pursuit of their goal. That's a combination that is nearly unstoppable.


--Rich


_

Rich Puhek
ETN Systems Inc.
2125 1st Ave East
Hibbing MN 55746

tel:   218.262.1130
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Hubert Chan]

> "Christian" == Christian Storch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Christian> So I'm thinking about establishing an own small debian
Christian> archive out of self recompiled packages as ong as there is no
Christian> secure solution of authenticating packages!

Just make sure that the sources are signed and/or you read through every
line.  And don't forget to build your compiler from scratch in binary,
or else your compiler could have been cracked to insert a backdoor into
SSH without your knowledge.  Writing the compiler in assembly isn't
enough, because the assembler could be compromised too.  (Or maybe you
would be better off just manipulating your hard-drive by hand with an
x-acto knife and duct tape...)

And do you trust that Intel/AMD/Motorola/etc hasn't been infiltrated by
the FBI, and are recording all your system activity?

Oh my goodness!  I just realized that "reality" is just a computer
program that taps right into my brain.  Everything's just an illusion,
and the TLAs can read my thoughts! Ah! ...

Aah, paranoid delusions are so much fun.

P.S. This message is GPG signed, so that you can verify that I did
indeed write it.  Or can you really ... ?

-- 
Hubert Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.uhoreg.ca/
PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/124B61FA
Fingerprint: 96C5 012F 5F74 A5F7 1FF7  5291 AF29 C719 124B 61FA
Key available at wwwkeys.pgp.net.   Encrypted e-mail preferred.


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Ted Parvu]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:09:02PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> hometown (Boston). They were carrying people, just like you and I and
> up until 30 seconds before the disaster, we had no reason to believe
> that the flight was hostile (other than the sporadic communication of
> the poor folks on the plan using their cell phones).
>

I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they are telling you on TV.  I
think that if you do a little research you will find that the FAA knew
long before any of the planes hit their targets that there was something
seriously wrong.  They also had and have "standing orders" in place for
what to do in just such a situation.  
 
> Let's face it, the original thread mentioned the FBI and CIA snooping 
> and gaining information
> about us and being "big brother" ala 1984.  I don't fear that at all, I 
> feel confident.knowing that
> there is an organization trying to stop terrorists, bad guys or 
> whatever.  If it takes me giving up
> some of my freedom's knowing my children will be safe -- so be it.
> 

Since you seem to feel that somehow the Founding Father's principles no
longer apply in today's world, allow me to quote someone from the
twentieth century.

"...the essence of war, of all wars, because however ''just'' or
''humanitarian'' may be the claims, at the irreducible core of all war
is the slaughter of the innocent, organized by national leaders,
accompanied by lies."

-- Howard Zinn, 1999

Leaders lie.  It is that simple.  The Founding Fathers understood well
that "power corrupts" and that power must be distributed and have a
series of "checks and balances" in place to limit the power of any
central authority.  They also understood that in the end the
responsibility of freedom was in the hands of the people.

"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization,
it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard
against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every
American to be informed."
-- Thomas Jefferson 

> We're paying right now by letting some of the little things of our 
> Freedom go.  It's a small price
> to know when I wake up everyday, I can still be "free" to do what I 
> enjoy doing, live where I
> want, vote for who I want etc.
>

You can never be free by allowing your freedoms to be taken away. 
September 11th was a wake up call for most Americans.  The rest of the
world has been dealing with this sort of terror for a long time.  Yes,
the world is a scary place.  Yes, the events of September 11th were very
tragic and painful.

I have no intention or belief that I can change anyone's opinion.  All
that I am asking is for you to consider what is happening in our country
and to seek information from sources other than your TV.  The Internet
is a wonderful source for those with powers of ratiocination.  For the
first time in history the people of the world have the ability to speak
directly to one another without an interceding publisher, priest,
politician, or any other authority.  I believe that if you allow
yourself to entertain the idea that your leaders are not serving you or
your fellow citizen's best interests you may find that they have and are
continuing to lie to you.

Ted  

<<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>>

Ted Parvu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://parvu.net

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Christian Storch]

> Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> died because the FBI, CIA
> or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> and cell phone communications
> that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.
> 
> You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> costly.
> 
> 

What do you think?
That all the bad guys all over the world would be so polite to use the net for
their conspirative communications - at best without any encryption?
I'm not afraid of them!

The reality is not only Washington is misusing the situation for other 
interests.
So I'm thinking about establishing an own small debian archive out of self 
recompiled
packages as ong as there is no secure solution of authenticating packages!

Christian

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Peter Cordes]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:09:02PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> You can quote Ben Franklin all you want,  but Ben Franklin's world was a 
> far simpler, easy to
> undersand and clearly not as geographical world as ours is today. 
> 
> I'm sure if Ben was alive today, he'd have a much more "updated" and 
> relative quote than a quote
> that was intended for the times he lived in.
> 
> Quoting someone who lived in the 1700's is certainly interesting, but 
> rememeber, these are the same
> folks that enslaved blacks and killed Indian's.  Time's have changed, 
> the world is different.

 I do admit that you have a point there.  If the US founding fathers had
said things that supported revoking freedoms, I and others would be
complaining of their irrelevance to todays world.  It's still and
interesting idea, but it's not at all a complete argument for freedom.

> [...]
>
> Let's face it, the original thread mentioned the FBI and CIA snooping 
> and gaining information
> about us and being "big brother" ala 1984.  I don't fear that at all, I 
> feel confident.knowing that
> there is an organization trying to stop terrorists, bad guys or 
> whatever.  If it takes me giving up
> some of my freedom's knowing my children will be safe -- so be it.
> 
> My quote was wrong, I should have said "the price OF freedom has A 
> cost".  My feeling has
> alway's been that you can't have Freedom without having paid for it in 
> some way.

 How about "the price of freedom is significant/high/dear"?

> We're paying right now by letting some of the little things of our 
> Freedom go.  It's a small price
> to know when I wake up everyday, I can still be "free" to do what I 
> enjoy doing, live where I
> want,

 According to some, the US has become a police state for some minorities,
and for the unfortunate few who are (rightly or wrongly) suspected of
something.  Doing that to them so you can be "free" doesn't seem fair.  I
wouldn't turn my country (Canada) into a police state for some residents no
matter what.  I would rather be killed by terrorists than live in a police
state.  (Of course, I'm not going to go out and kill myself, because I know
that wouldn't actually prevent a police state.)

 The thing you have to remember is that some of the things put into place
will hit some people more than others.  You might not want to visit
relatives in Afghanistan, but some people do.  Giving up their freedom for
your safety seems to be what is going on, but people don't seem to admit that.

> vote for who I want etc.

 Too bad so few sane people ever make it onto a ballot in the first place,
in the US or Canada.

-- 
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ;  e-mail: X([EMAIL PROTECTED] , ns.ca)

"The gods confound the man who first found out how to distinguish the hours!
 Confound him, too, who in this place set up a sundial, to cut and hack
 my day so wretchedly into small pieces!" -- Plautus, 200 BC

Re: [OT] [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Johannes Werner]

well

this really starts to become interesting

I personally do not think that 9/11 (or something like that) could be
prevented by any of those organizations (wasn't there a discussion that
they knew about it beforehand?). And what a bout driving a van full of
explosives into a building (like in Oklahoma)?
Another possibility might be - strictly hypothetically, of course - that
somebody _wanted_ this to happen to get public support for all those
actions ('anti-terror' (i.e. anti freedom) laws, war against other
countries etc. BTW when are they going to attack Germany and France, who
are still against the war?

But I think this is getting more and more OT

And BTW, shouldn't it read "WAR IS PEACE" ?

Joe.

Re: Way off topic: Hijacked airplanes and the no-good US govt

[Peter Cordes]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 10:39:54AM -0800, Ted Parvu wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> > died because the FBI, CIA
> > or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> > and cell phone communications
> > that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

 Even the religiously deluded still need guts to do something like that.
They weren't cowards, they were brainwashed.  As for the intelligence
people, they had info, some of it passed on to them by other countries, and
they they should have been able to put it all together and figure it out.
The problem wasn't lack of ability to invade privacy, but rather a lack of
coordination between different parts of the intelligence agencies.  (I don't
have any evidence I can point to to back that up, it's just the conclusion
I've come to from paying attention to the news.  (including sources other
than govt. cheerleaders like CNN or Fox.))

> > 
> > You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> > costly.
> > 
> 
> Hmm, the price of freedom is costly
> 
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> 
> -- Ben Franklin
> 
> Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
> have allowed those planes to hit anything.
> 
> http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

The only types of aircraft this document mentions destroying are "derelict
objects", and I'm fairly sure they are _only_ talking about unmanned
objects.  E.g. page 15:

  2.  Policy.  This instruction provides guidance for the destruction of 
  derelict objects (e.g., unmanned free balloons, moored balloons, kites, 
  unmanned non-nuclear rockets or missiles, UAV or ROV) over United 
  States or international airspace. 

 None of those examples even remotely apply to hijacked airplanes.  Hijacked
airplanes are dealt with in other sections of the document, which call for
the plane to be optionally escorted by military jets, and followed until
they enter another nations airspace.  There is no mention of destroying
planes with people on board in any of that document.  (I don't know why they
would bother with escorts if they aren't going to shoot it down, but maybe
that's just to see where the hijackers go.)

> Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
> that stray off course or that lose communications.

 Would the results be similar to the PDF you linked to?

>  Then ask yourself
> why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

 It was in the air after the other planes impacted, and the passengers found
out what was probably in store for them.  They took action.  What you seem
to be suggesting looks (to me) like a conspiracy theory with little merit.

> The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
> the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

 Now that, I agree with.  If you watch US TV news, listen Counterspin every
week to make sure you're not getting the wool pulled over your eyes.
http://www.fair.org/.  Their archives are only in Real Audio,
http://www.webactive.com/webactive/cspin/cspinarch.html, but they have more
Free Software-friendly mp3s: http://www.fair.org/counterspin/mp3.html.

 I guess I'd better stop now, because debian-security isn't really about
this kind of security.  Sorry to fill up your mailboxes with this stuff, but
it's important.

-- 
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ;  e-mail: X([EMAIL PROTECTED] , ns.ca)

"The gods confound the man who first found out how to distinguish the hours!
 Confound him, too, who in this place set up a sundial, to cut and hack
 my day so wretchedly into small pieces!" -- Plautus, 200 BC

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Alastair McKinstry]

This is off-topic, but you should probably know: the FBI, CIA and others
were monitoring the hijackers _specifically_ prior to 9/11.

As a matter of tradecraft, Al Qaeda often mention specific times and
operations during calls, to flush out whether their calls are being
intercepted: they mention places/dates, to force the FBI, etc to pick
them up (and monitor from a safe distance; you lose some operatives, the
others continue. The intelligence agencies would rather monitor people
for as long as possible to catch all of them).

So it is a matter of policy not to automatically act on mention of an
attack. We don't know if the attackers said to each other, on 9/11,
"today is the day we hijack the planes"; we do know, that if they did,
and the FBI heard, they would not necessarily have acted upon it.


On Fri, 2003-03-07 at 18:10, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> >
> >
> >Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
> >their oyster.
> >
> >Be afraid, be very afraid.
> >
> >Ted
> >  
> >
> 
> Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> died because the FBI, CIA
> or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> and cell phone communications
> that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.
> 
> You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> costly.
> 
> 
> >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >WAR IS GOOD
> > FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
> >   IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  
> >
> >
> >  
> >
-- 
Alastair McKinstry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9E64 E714 8E08 81F9 F3DC  1020 FA8E 3790 9051 38F4

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
will reach to himself.

- --Thomas Paine



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Dale Amon]

The people who fought the hijackers to the death
in Pennsylvania are now part of our national lore
on a par with the Boston Tea Party and Paul Revere's
ride.

I salute their bravery and only hope that should I
as an individual ever be in a similar situation, I
would have the guts to remember and follow their
example.

Now, could we get back to debian security? If someone
is truly interested in stopping State snooping, then
it begins with secure systems. So lets leave the
politics and get back to doing the things that make
Echelon and Carnivore obsolete.

-- 
--
   IN MY NAME:Dale Amon, CEO/MD
  No Mushroom clouds over Islandone Society
London and New York.  www.islandone.org
--


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Nathan R. Valentine]

You're all offtopic. Take it to debian-jingoism or
debian-too-much-fox-news. 

Thank you. Please drive thru. 

;)

-- 
---
Nathan Valentine - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.nathanvalentine.org
AIM: NRVesKY


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Rich Puhek]

Ted Parvu wrote:
On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:

Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications
that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.



Hmm, the price of freedom is costly

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Ben Franklin

Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
have allowed those planes to hit anything.
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

Umm, according to that document, the military could *not* take any 
action against the aircraft. They do have authority to destroy "Derelict 
Airborne Objects", but the definition of such an object does not include 
any form of manned craft. The document goes on to specify what 
assistance the military will provide to civil authorities in "piracy of 
civil aircraft":

"Military personnel will provide the following types of support: 
intercept, surveillance, lift, equipment, and communications. Military 
personnel may not participate in a search, seizure, arrest, or other 
similar activity. This restriction would include the apprehension of 
aircraft hijackers or use of military aircraft (fixed-wing or 
helicopter) or other vehicles as platforms for gunfire or the use of 
other weapons against suspected hijackers."

So it would seem that as of Sept. 11th, 2001 (the order you reference 
was issued June 1st, 2001), the military could not do anything besides 
"escort" the planes. Note the specific restriction against the use of 
weapons against suspected hijackers.


Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
that stray off course or that lose communications.  Then ask yourself
why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.
The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

Ted

Yes, of course the Net is even more reliable than the government 
propaganda :-)

Granted, there's bound to be plenty of slant from the official line, but 
keep in mind the fact that any yahoo with a modem can generate a 
different view that's even less credible.

Let's also take a good look at the reality of the situation. Life isn't 
a movie, there's a finite time involved to do something as basic as 
getting an aircraft off the ground, plus transit time to fly from an 
airbase to intercept the suspect craft. Also, after the cold war ended, 
we kinda stepped down the alert level at airbases around the US, so I 
doubt there were any pilots sitting around in a ready room just waiting 
for a siren to go off, planes might not have been fuled up, planes were 
most likely not armed, etc.

--Rich

_

Rich Puhek
ETN Systems Inc.
2125 1st Ave East
Hibbing MN 55746
tel:   218.262.1130
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Rich Puhek]

Gary MacDougall wrote:


Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
their oyster.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ted
 

Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications
that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.


Ummm, interception wasn't the problem. Interpretation was the problem. 
Harvesting more email isn't going to solve much (and will possibly 
compound the problem) if intelligence agencies lack enough manpower to 
translate and interpret the messages.

Your comment seems to lay blame for 9/11 on the intelligence community. 
It's fair to say that they had major flaws at that time (and possibly 
now as well). You could argue that this specific incident could have 
been prevented if certain measures were in place. Keep in mind, the 
perpetrators were a determined group that was willing to accept death in 
the pursuit of their goal. That's a combination that is nearly unstoppable.

--Rich

_

Rich Puhek
ETN Systems Inc.
2125 1st Ave East
Hibbing MN 55746
tel:   218.262.1130
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Gary MacDougall]

You can quote Ben Franklin all you want,  but Ben Franklin's world was
a far simpler, easy to
undersand and clearly not as geographical world as ours is today.  

I'm sure if Ben was alive today, he'd have a much more "updated" and
relative quote than a quote
that was intended for the times he lived in.

Quoting someone who lived in the 1700's is certainly interesting, but
rememeber, these are the same 
folks that enslaved blacks and killed Indian's.  Time's have changed,
the world is different.

If you asked me 2 years ago "Hey, do you think some nut job's will
attack and fly plane's into the
WTC?".  I would have laughed and said "nah, never happen.".  Today,
I've been re-schooled, and
I'm an old man (38), I believe anything is now possible even in the
United State's.

As far as your theory that the military should have not allowed the
plane's to hit anything?

Well, let's be honest here.  Those were commercial flights, 2 of which
originated from my 
hometown (Boston). They were carrying people, just like you and I and
up until 30 seconds before 
the disaster, we had no reason to believe that the flight was hostile 
(other than the sporadic communication of the poor folks on the plan
using their cell phones).

And about the plan that crashed in PA, Consiracy?  Sure, you can think
that if you want.  
However, I kind of like to think that our goverment felt that it was
the last resort to down a plane that
had civilian's on it -- if that's what happened -- and then make them
out to be hero's.  I like
that ending better than your's.  Knowing the real truth  (if thats what
happened) doesn't change 
anything about what happened -- they still died, and had the plane made
it's destination, I think
we'd all been a little sadder -- if we could have possibly been any
sadder.

Let's face it, the original thread mentioned the FBI and CIA snooping
and gaining information
about us and being "big brother" ala 1984.  I don't fear that at all, I
feel confident.knowing that
there is an organization trying to stop terrorists, bad guys or
whatever.  If it takes me giving up
some of my freedom's knowing my children will be safe -- so be it.

My quote was wrong, I should have said "the price OF freedom has A
cost".  My feeling has
alway's been that you can't have Freedom without having paid for it in
some way.

We're paying right now by letting some of the little things of our
Freedom go.  It's a small price
to know when I wake up everyday, I can still be "free" to do what I
enjoy doing, live where I
want, vote for who I want etc.

g.

Ted Parvu wrote:

  On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
  
  
Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications
that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.


  
  
Hmm, the price of freedom is costly

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Ben Franklin

Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
have allowed those planes to hit anything.

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
that stray off course or that lose communications.  Then ask yourself
why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

Ted

<<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>>

Ted Parvu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>	http://parvu.net


  

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Ted Parvu]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:09:02PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> hometown (Boston). They were carrying people, just like you and I and
> up until 30 seconds before the disaster, we had no reason to believe
> that the flight was hostile (other than the sporadic communication of
> the poor folks on the plan using their cell phones).
>

I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they are telling you on TV.  I
think that if you do a little research you will find that the FAA knew
long before any of the planes hit their targets that there was something
seriously wrong.  They also had and have "standing orders" in place for
what to do in just such a situation.  
 
> Let's face it, the original thread mentioned the FBI and CIA snooping 
> and gaining information
> about us and being "big brother" ala 1984.  I don't fear that at all, I 
> feel confident.knowing that
> there is an organization trying to stop terrorists, bad guys or 
> whatever.  If it takes me giving up
> some of my freedom's knowing my children will be safe -- so be it.
> 

Since you seem to feel that somehow the Founding Father's principles no
longer apply in today's world, allow me to quote someone from the
twentieth century.

"...the essence of war, of all wars, because however ''just'' or
''humanitarian'' may be the claims, at the irreducible core of all war
is the slaughter of the innocent, organized by national leaders,
accompanied by lies."

-- Howard Zinn, 1999

Leaders lie.  It is that simple.  The Founding Fathers understood well
that "power corrupts" and that power must be distributed and have a
series of "checks and balances" in place to limit the power of any
central authority.  They also understood that in the end the
responsibility of freedom was in the hands of the people.

"If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization,
it expects what never was and never will be... if we are to guard
against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every
American to be informed."
-- Thomas Jefferson 

> We're paying right now by letting some of the little things of our 
> Freedom go.  It's a small price
> to know when I wake up everyday, I can still be "free" to do what I 
> enjoy doing, live where I
> want, vote for who I want etc.
>

You can never be free by allowing your freedoms to be taken away. 
September 11th was a wake up call for most Americans.  The rest of the
world has been dealing with this sort of terror for a long time.  Yes,
the world is a scary place.  Yes, the events of September 11th were very
tragic and painful.

I have no intention or belief that I can change anyone's opinion.  All
that I am asking is for you to consider what is happening in our country
and to seek information from sources other than your TV.  The Internet
is a wonderful source for those with powers of ratiocination.  For the
first time in history the people of the world have the ability to speak
directly to one another without an interceding publisher, priest,
politician, or any other authority.  I believe that if you allow
yourself to entertain the idea that your leaders are not serving you or
your fellow citizen's best interests you may find that they have and are
continuing to lie to you.

Ted  

<<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>>

Ted Parvu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://parvu.net


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Christian Storch]

> Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> died because the FBI, CIA
> or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> and cell phone communications
> that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.
> 
> You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> costly.
> 
> 

What do you think?
That all the bad guys all over the world would be so polite to use the net for
their conspirative communications - at best without any encryption?
I'm not afraid of them!

The reality is not only Washington is misusing the situation for other interests.
So I'm thinking about establishing an own small debian archive out of self recompiled
packages as ong as there is no secure solution of authenticating packages!

Christian


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Peter Cordes]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 02:09:02PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> You can quote Ben Franklin all you want,  but Ben Franklin's world was a 
> far simpler, easy to
> undersand and clearly not as geographical world as ours is today. 
> 
> I'm sure if Ben was alive today, he'd have a much more "updated" and 
> relative quote than a quote
> that was intended for the times he lived in.
> 
> Quoting someone who lived in the 1700's is certainly interesting, but 
> rememeber, these are the same
> folks that enslaved blacks and killed Indian's.  Time's have changed, 
> the world is different.

 I do admit that you have a point there.  If the US founding fathers had
said things that supported revoking freedoms, I and others would be
complaining of their irrelevance to todays world.  It's still and
interesting idea, but it's not at all a complete argument for freedom.

> [...]
>
> Let's face it, the original thread mentioned the FBI and CIA snooping 
> and gaining information
> about us and being "big brother" ala 1984.  I don't fear that at all, I 
> feel confident.knowing that
> there is an organization trying to stop terrorists, bad guys or 
> whatever.  If it takes me giving up
> some of my freedom's knowing my children will be safe -- so be it.
> 
> My quote was wrong, I should have said "the price OF freedom has A 
> cost".  My feeling has
> alway's been that you can't have Freedom without having paid for it in 
> some way.

 How about "the price of freedom is significant/high/dear"?

> We're paying right now by letting some of the little things of our 
> Freedom go.  It's a small price
> to know when I wake up everyday, I can still be "free" to do what I 
> enjoy doing, live where I
> want,

 According to some, the US has become a police state for some minorities,
and for the unfortunate few who are (rightly or wrongly) suspected of
something.  Doing that to them so you can be "free" doesn't seem fair.  I
wouldn't turn my country (Canada) into a police state for some residents no
matter what.  I would rather be killed by terrorists than live in a police
state.  (Of course, I'm not going to go out and kill myself, because I know
that wouldn't actually prevent a police state.)

 The thing you have to remember is that some of the things put into place
will hit some people more than others.  You might not want to visit
relatives in Afghanistan, but some people do.  Giving up their freedom for
your safety seems to be what is going on, but people don't seem to admit that.

> vote for who I want etc.

 Too bad so few sane people ever make it onto a ballot in the first place,
in the US or Canada.

-- 
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ;  e-mail: X([EMAIL PROTECTED] , ns.ca)

"The gods confound the man who first found out how to distinguish the hours!
 Confound him, too, who in this place set up a sundial, to cut and hack
 my day so wretchedly into small pieces!" -- Plautus, 200 BC


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Re: [OT] [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Johannes Werner]

well

this really starts to become interesting

I personally do not think that 9/11 (or something like that) could be
prevented by any of those organizations (wasn't there a discussion that
they knew about it beforehand?). And what a bout driving a van full of
explosives into a building (like in Oklahoma)?
Another possibility might be - strictly hypothetically, of course - that
somebody _wanted_ this to happen to get public support for all those
actions ('anti-terror' (i.e. anti freedom) laws, war against other
countries etc. BTW when are they going to attack Germany and France, who
are still against the war?

But I think this is getting more and more OT

And BTW, shouldn't it read "WAR IS PEACE" ?

Joe.





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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Ted Parvu]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> died because the FBI, CIA
> or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> and cell phone communications
> that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.
> 
> You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> costly.
> 

Hmm, the price of freedom is costly

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Ben Franklin

Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
have allowed those planes to hit anything.

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
that stray off course or that lose communications.  Then ask yourself
why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

Ted

<<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>>

Ted Parvu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://parvu.net

Re: Way off topic: Hijacked airplanes and the no-good US govt

[Peter Cordes]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 10:39:54AM -0800, Ted Parvu wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> > died because the FBI, CIA
> > or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> > and cell phone communications
> > that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

 Even the religiously deluded still need guts to do something like that.
They weren't cowards, they were brainwashed.  As for the intelligence
people, they had info, some of it passed on to them by other countries, and
they they should have been able to put it all together and figure it out.
The problem wasn't lack of ability to invade privacy, but rather a lack of
coordination between different parts of the intelligence agencies.  (I don't
have any evidence I can point to to back that up, it's just the conclusion
I've come to from paying attention to the news.  (including sources other
than govt. cheerleaders like CNN or Fox.))

> > 
> > You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> > costly.
> > 
> 
> Hmm, the price of freedom is costly
> 
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> 
> -- Ben Franklin
> 
> Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
> have allowed those planes to hit anything.
> 
> http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

The only types of aircraft this document mentions destroying are "derelict
objects", and I'm fairly sure they are _only_ talking about unmanned
objects.  E.g. page 15:

  2.  Policy.  This instruction provides guidance for the destruction of 
  derelict objects (e.g., unmanned free balloons, moored balloons, kites, 
  unmanned non-nuclear rockets or missiles, UAV or ROV) over United 
  States or international airspace. 

 None of those examples even remotely apply to hijacked airplanes.  Hijacked
airplanes are dealt with in other sections of the document, which call for
the plane to be optionally escorted by military jets, and followed until
they enter another nations airspace.  There is no mention of destroying
planes with people on board in any of that document.  (I don't know why they
would bother with escorts if they aren't going to shoot it down, but maybe
that's just to see where the hijackers go.)

> Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
> that stray off course or that lose communications.

 Would the results be similar to the PDF you linked to?

>  Then ask yourself
> why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

 It was in the air after the other planes impacted, and the passengers found
out what was probably in store for them.  They took action.  What you seem
to be suggesting looks (to me) like a conspiracy theory with little merit.

> The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
> the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

 Now that, I agree with.  If you watch US TV news, listen Counterspin every
week to make sure you're not getting the wool pulled over your eyes.
http://www.fair.org/.  Their archives are only in Real Audio,
http://www.webactive.com/webactive/cspin/cspinarch.html, but they have more
Free Software-friendly mp3s: http://www.fair.org/counterspin/mp3.html.

 I guess I'd better stop now, because debian-security isn't really about
this kind of security.  Sorry to fill up your mailboxes with this stuff, but
it's important.

-- 
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ;  e-mail: X([EMAIL PROTECTED] , ns.ca)

"The gods confound the man who first found out how to distinguish the hours!
 Confound him, too, who in this place set up a sundial, to cut and hack
 my day so wretchedly into small pieces!" -- Plautus, 200 BC


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Alastair McKinstry]

This is off-topic, but you should probably know: the FBI, CIA and others
were monitoring the hijackers _specifically_ prior to 9/11.

As a matter of tradecraft, Al Qaeda often mention specific times and
operations during calls, to flush out whether their calls are being
intercepted: they mention places/dates, to force the FBI, etc to pick
them up (and monitor from a safe distance; you lose some operatives, the
others continue. The intelligence agencies would rather monitor people
for as long as possible to catch all of them).

So it is a matter of policy not to automatically act on mention of an
attack. We don't know if the attackers said to each other, on 9/11,
"today is the day we hijack the planes"; we do know, that if they did,
and the FBI heard, they would not necessarily have acted upon it.


On Fri, 2003-03-07 at 18:10, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> >
> >
> >Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
> >their oyster.
> >
> >Be afraid, be very afraid.
> >
> >Ted
> >  
> >
> 
> Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> died because the FBI, CIA
> or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> and cell phone communications
> that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.
> 
> You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> costly.
> 
> 
> >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >WAR IS GOOD
> > FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
> >   IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  
> >
> >
> >  
> >
-- 
Alastair McKinstry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GPG Key fingerprint = 9E64 E714 8E08 81F9 F3DC  1020 FA8E 3790 9051 38F4

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
will reach to himself.

- --Thomas Paine



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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Nathan R. Valentine]

You're all offtopic. Take it to debian-jingoism or
debian-too-much-fox-news. 

Thank you. Please drive thru. 

;)

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AIM: NRVesKY


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Gary MacDougall]

Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
their oyster.


Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ted
 



Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications

that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.




-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   WAR IS GOOD
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
			  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  



 

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Gary MacDougall]

You can quote Ben Franklin all you want,  but Ben Franklin's world was
a far simpler, easy to
undersand and clearly not as geographical world as ours is today.  

I'm sure if Ben was alive today, he'd have a much more "updated" and
relative quote than a quote
that was intended for the times he lived in.

Quoting someone who lived in the 1700's is certainly interesting, but
rememeber, these are the same 
folks that enslaved blacks and killed Indian's.  Time's have changed,
the world is different.

If you asked me 2 years ago "Hey, do you think some nut job's will
attack and fly plane's into the
WTC?".  I would have laughed and said "nah, never happen.".  Today,
I've been re-schooled, and
I'm an old man (38), I believe anything is now possible even in the
United State's.

As far as your theory that the military should have not allowed the
plane's to hit anything?

Well, let's be honest here.  Those were commercial flights, 2 of which
originated from my 
hometown (Boston). They were carrying people, just like you and I and
up until 30 seconds before 
the disaster, we had no reason to believe that the flight was hostile 
(other than the sporadic communication of the poor folks on the plan
using their cell phones).

And about the plan that crashed in PA, Consiracy?  Sure, you can think
that if you want.  
However, I kind of like to think that our goverment felt that it was
the last resort to down a plane that
had civilian's on it -- if that's what happened -- and then make them
out to be hero's.  I like
that ending better than your's.  Knowing the real truth  (if thats what
happened) doesn't change 
anything about what happened -- they still died, and had the plane made
it's destination, I think
we'd all been a little sadder -- if we could have possibly been any
sadder.

Let's face it, the original thread mentioned the FBI and CIA snooping
and gaining information
about us and being "big brother" ala 1984.  I don't fear that at all, I
feel confident.knowing that
there is an organization trying to stop terrorists, bad guys or
whatever.  If it takes me giving up
some of my freedom's knowing my children will be safe -- so be it.

My quote was wrong, I should have said "the price OF freedom has A
cost".  My feeling has
alway's been that you can't have Freedom without having paid for it in
some way.

We're paying right now by letting some of the little things of our
Freedom go.  It's a small price
to know when I wake up everyday, I can still be "free" to do what I
enjoy doing, live where I
want, vote for who I want etc.

g.

Ted Parvu wrote:

  On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
  
  
Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications
that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.


  
  
Hmm, the price of freedom is costly

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Ben Franklin

Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
have allowed those planes to hit anything.

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
that stray off course or that lose communications.  Then ask yourself
why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

Ted

<<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>>

Ted Parvu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>	http://parvu.net


  

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Ted Parvu]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 01:10:29PM -0500, Gary MacDougall wrote:
> 
> Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
> died because the FBI, CIA
> or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
> and cell phone communications
> that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.
> 
> You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
> costly.
> 

Hmm, the price of freedom is costly

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Ben Franklin

Perhaps you would do well to consider that the US military should never
have allowed those planes to hit anything.

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

Why don't you google what the standing intercept orders are for aircraft
that stray off course or that lose communications.  Then ask yourself
why only the plane that was headed for the Whitehouse was downed.

The Washington propaganda machine is in full force in this country.  Use
the Net to understand what is really going on here.  

Ted

<<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>><<>><><<>><><<>>

Ted Parvu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://parvu.net


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Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Ted Parvu]

On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 11:53:42PM -0800, Blars Blarson wrote:

> >on me, then they certianly can put a line sniffer between me and my 
> >ISP... isn't that
> >easier?!?!
> 
> No need to put it between, their packet sniffer is already in place at
> your ISP.  Please read about CARNIVORE, which made many news headlines
> before 9/11/01.  It hasn't gone away, the news media just shut up
> about it.  (If you're outside of the USA, the CIA has been doing more
> for longer, but it doesn't make the news as much.)
> 

Lions, and tigers, and bears, OH MY!  :^)

Of course CARNIVORE is just one small piece of the greater WORLDWIDE 
system ECHELON.  

The FBI had been trying desperately to install CARNIVORE system pre 
September 11.  Within days after the attacks the FBI began installing 
CARNIVORE systems in top tier ISPs.  SysAdmins who had been fighting the 
good fight, relented in the shock following September 11th.  

Washington quickly began passing legislation to, among many other
things, define "hackers" as terrorists.  See this article titled
"Hackers face life imprisonment under 'Anti-Terrorism' Act"

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257

Oh, you say you live in Russia, Australia, China, New Zealand, or 
someplace that is not in the US?  Doesn't matter.

See this article titled "Anti-terror law bad news for foreign hackers"

http://dir.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/11/23/hackers/index.html

You might find this speech delivered by Congressman Ron Paul to the 
House of Representatives on June 27, 2002 to be an interesting read.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr062702.htm

Then just for fun there is this Gore Vidal interview "The Last Defender 
of the American Republic?"

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/33/features-cooper.php

Most of these articles are getting dated.  You don't even want to know
what is going on presently but hey here is a recent one on what Ashcroft
has up his sleeve these days.

http://politechbot.com/p-04526.html


Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
their oyster.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ted

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   WAR IS GOOD
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Gary MacDougall]

Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
their oyster.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ted
 

Maybe you should talk to the family of the 3300 people in the WTC that 
died because the FBI, CIA
or Special Services didn't have or couldn't intercept the many mail, fax 
and cell phone communications
that went between the cowards that flew planes into the buildings.

You know, I feel safer now than I did on 9-11.  The price of freedom is 
costly.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
			   WAR IS GOOD
			FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
			  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  

 



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Re: chkrootkit and LKM

[Jens Schuessler]

* Jacques Lav!gnotte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [07-03-03 14:05]:
> 
> Bonjour...
> 
> When running  from a shell logged on the machine I get :
> 
> Checking `lkm'... You have 1 process hidden for readdir command
> You have 1 process hidden for ps command
> Warning: Possible LKM Trojan installed
> 
> Sometimes I get 2 or 3 processes, sometimes NONE.
> 
> 
> Are there knownes 'false positive' ? 

I had this too. Search on google for "chkrootkit & lkm". 
Nothing to worry about.

Jens

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Ted Parvu]

On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 11:53:42PM -0800, Blars Blarson wrote:

> >on me, then they certianly can put a line sniffer between me and my 
> >ISP... isn't that
> >easier?!?!
> 
> No need to put it between, their packet sniffer is already in place at
> your ISP.  Please read about CARNIVORE, which made many news headlines
> before 9/11/01.  It hasn't gone away, the news media just shut up
> about it.  (If you're outside of the USA, the CIA has been doing more
> for longer, but it doesn't make the news as much.)
> 

Lions, and tigers, and bears, OH MY!  :^)

Of course CARNIVORE is just one small piece of the greater WORLDWIDE 
system ECHELON.  

The FBI had been trying desperately to install CARNIVORE system pre 
September 11.  Within days after the attacks the FBI began installing 
CARNIVORE systems in top tier ISPs.  SysAdmins who had been fighting the 
good fight, relented in the shock following September 11th.  

Washington quickly began passing legislation to, among many other
things, define "hackers" as terrorists.  See this article titled
"Hackers face life imprisonment under 'Anti-Terrorism' Act"

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/257

Oh, you say you live in Russia, Australia, China, New Zealand, or 
someplace that is not in the US?  Doesn't matter.

See this article titled "Anti-terror law bad news for foreign hackers"

http://dir.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/11/23/hackers/index.html

You might find this speech delivered by Congressman Ron Paul to the 
House of Representatives on June 27, 2002 to be an interesting read.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr062702.htm

Then just for fun there is this Gore Vidal interview "The Last Defender 
of the American Republic?"

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/33/features-cooper.php

Most of these articles are getting dated.  You don't even want to know
what is going on presently but hey here is a recent one on what Ashcroft
has up his sleeve these days.

http://politechbot.com/p-04526.html


Yes, the American Empire is certainly on the move... and the World is 
their oyster.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Ted

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   WAR IS GOOD
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
  IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH  


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Re: chkrootkit and LKM

[Jens Schuessler]

* Jacques Lav!gnotte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [07-03-03 14:05]:
> 
> Bonjour...
> 
> When running  from a shell logged on the machine I get :
> 
> Checking `lkm'... You have 1 process hidden for readdir command
> You have 1 process hidden for ps command
> Warning: Possible LKM Trojan installed
> 
> Sometimes I get 2 or 3 processes, sometimes NONE.
> 
> 
> Are there knownes 'false positive' ? 

I had this too. Search on google for "chkrootkit & lkm". 
Nothing to worry about.

Jens


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/var/log/wtmp

[Albert Cervera Areny]

I received a mail with this subject from localhost, and with what I suppose it 
is the diff between wtmp and its previous version. What I'd like to know is 
how I can rebuild the file to see what's been the change and the logins 
deleted?

Also.. what is the daemon that sends this messages?

Thanks for any tips..

chkrootkit and LKM

[Jacques Lav!gnotte]

Bonjour...

When running  from a shell logged on the machine I get :

Checking `lkm'... You have 1 process hidden for readdir command
You have 1 process hidden for ps command
Warning: Possible LKM Trojan installed

Sometimes I get 2 or 3 processes, sometimes NONE.


Are there knownes 'false positive' ? 


Thanks in adavance

Jacques

unsubscribe

[Karlheinz Theiler]

unsubscribe

[Tomas Willebrand]

unsubscribe

/var/log/wtmp

[Albert Cervera Areny]

I received a mail with this subject from localhost, and with what I suppose it 
is the diff between wtmp and its previous version. What I'd like to know is 
how I can rebuild the file to see what's been the change and the logins 
deleted?

Also.. what is the daemon that sends this messages?

Thanks for any tips..


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chkrootkit and LKM

[Jacques Lav!gnotte]

Bonjour...

When running  from a shell logged on the machine I get :

Checking `lkm'... You have 1 process hidden for readdir command
You have 1 process hidden for ps command
Warning: Possible LKM Trojan installed

Sometimes I get 2 or 3 processes, sometimes NONE.


Are there knownes 'false positive' ? 


Thanks in adavance

Jacques







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unsubscribe

[Karlheinz Theiler]

 


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Re: Bug#182886: libc6: local hostnames containing a dot get forwarded outside when doing host-lookups.

[GOTO Masanori]

At Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:18:02 +0100,
Bernhard R. Link <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Vassilii Khachaturov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030228 21:58]:
> > > Thanks, I missed that. Being placed unter "internal variables" and
> > > "debug" seems to have tricked me in ignoring this part.
> > > 
> > > There should at least be a sentence "search" to indicate that one has
> > > to read the ndots-part to get a real search-path.
> 
> I've tested this some people by letting them open resolv.conf and
> describing the problem. Noone found anything until they were told
> to look for "options ndots". I suggest adding something like the
> following to the manpage:
> 
> --- resolv.conf.5.orig  Sun Mar  2 18:10:44 2003
> +++ resolv.conf.5   Sun Mar  2 18:34:38 2003
> @@ -72,8 +72,14 @@
>  This may be changed by listing the desired domain search path
>  following the \fIsearch\fP keyword with spaces or tabs separating
>  the names.
> -Most resolver queries will be attempted using each component
> +Resolver queries having less than 
> +.B ndots 
> +dots (default is 1) in them will be attempted using each component
>  of the search path in turn until a match is found.
> +For environments with multiple subdomains please read 
> +.B options ndots:n
> +below to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks and unnecessary
> +traffic for the root-dns-servers.
>  Note that this process may be slow and will generate a lot of network
>  traffic if the servers for the listed domains are not local,
>  and that queries will time out if no server is available
>
> 
> I think this should fix the problem of misleading documentation.

Fixing inappropriate description is everytime fine.  resolv.conf.5
is in manpages package, so could I reassign this bug to manpages?

Regards,
-- gotom

unsubscribe

[Tomas Willebrand]

unsubscribe


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Re: Integrity of Debian packages

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 11:33:15AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> One of my friends sent me this URL, it's an oldie, and the topic in 
> general has been discussed before, but this article certainly does raise 
> some concerns.
> 
Send them this url:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ch7.en.html#s-deb-pack-sign


Regards

Javi


pgp4rjyhEbZhf.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Blars Blarson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>If the FBI has the power, time and energy to install a proxy between my 
>router
>and my ISP to spoof a package host (i.e. security.debian.org) just to 
>root my servers, then they
>are clearly a heck of lot more "geeky" than I thought.  Hell, why go 
>through that trouble,
>why not just grab my traffic and sniff all my packet's... sheesh.  If 
>they can spoof a proxy
>on me, then they certianly can put a line sniffer between me and my 
>ISP... isn't that
>easier?!?!


No need to put it between, their packet sniffer is already in place at
your ISP.  Please read about CARNIVORE, which made many news headlines
before 9/11/01.  It hasn't gone away, the news media just shut up
about it.  (If you're outside of the USA, the CIA has been doing more
for longer, but it doesn't make the news as much.)


-- 
Blars Blarson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.blars.org/blars.html
"Text is a way we cheat time." -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden

Re: Bug#182886: libc6: local hostnames containing a dot get forwarded outside when doing host-lookups.

[GOTO Masanori]

At Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:18:02 +0100,
Bernhard R. Link <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Vassilii Khachaturov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030228 21:58]:
> > > Thanks, I missed that. Being placed unter "internal variables" and
> > > "debug" seems to have tricked me in ignoring this part.
> > > 
> > > There should at least be a sentence "search" to indicate that one has
> > > to read the ndots-part to get a real search-path.
> 
> I've tested this some people by letting them open resolv.conf and
> describing the problem. Noone found anything until they were told
> to look for "options ndots". I suggest adding something like the
> following to the manpage:
> 
> --- resolv.conf.5.orig  Sun Mar  2 18:10:44 2003
> +++ resolv.conf.5   Sun Mar  2 18:34:38 2003
> @@ -72,8 +72,14 @@
>  This may be changed by listing the desired domain search path
>  following the \fIsearch\fP keyword with spaces or tabs separating
>  the names.
> -Most resolver queries will be attempted using each component
> +Resolver queries having less than 
> +.B ndots 
> +dots (default is 1) in them will be attempted using each component
>  of the search path in turn until a match is found.
> +For environments with multiple subdomains please read 
> +.B options ndots:n
> +below to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks and unnecessary
> +traffic for the root-dns-servers.
>  Note that this process may be slow and will generate a lot of network
>  traffic if the servers for the listed domains are not local,
>  and that queries will time out if no server is available
>
> 
> I think this should fix the problem of misleading documentation.

Fixing inappropriate description is everytime fine.  resolv.conf.5
is in manpages package, so could I reassign this bug to manpages?

Regards,
-- gotom


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Re: Integrity of Debian packages

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2003 at 11:33:15AM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> One of my friends sent me this URL, it's an oldie, and the topic in 
> general has been discussed before, but this article certainly does raise 
> some concerns.
> 
Send them this url:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ch7.en.html#s-deb-pack-sign


Regards

Javi


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [work] Integrity of Debian packages

[Blars Blarson]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>If the FBI has the power, time and energy to install a proxy between my 
>router
>and my ISP to spoof a package host (i.e. security.debian.org) just to 
>root my servers, then they
>are clearly a heck of lot more "geeky" than I thought.  Hell, why go 
>through that trouble,
>why not just grab my traffic and sniff all my packet's... sheesh.  If 
>they can spoof a proxy
>on me, then they certianly can put a line sniffer between me and my 
>ISP... isn't that
>easier?!?!


No need to put it between, their packet sniffer is already in place at
your ISP.  Please read about CARNIVORE, which made many news headlines
before 9/11/01.  It hasn't gone away, the news media just shut up
about it.  (If you're outside of the USA, the CIA has been doing more
for longer, but it doesn't make the news as much.)


-- 
Blars Blarson   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.blars.org/blars.html
"Text is a way we cheat time." -- Patrick Nielsen Hayden


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