Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
> > > You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware

I had quite a lot of trouble mapping this a long time ago for
intel-microcode.  I ended up using several sources including, but not
limited to: ark.intel.com, the processor specification datasheets
available at intel.com, and boot logs.  And ark.intel.com proved to not
be correct at least once from what little I recall.

So, FWIW, according to the work I did at that time:

> > > cpu family  : 6
> > > model   : 22
> > > model name  : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  440  @ 2.00GHz
> > > stepping    : 1

sig 0x10661, 64-bit capable, latest public microcode update: rev 0x43

> > > cpu family  : 15
> > > model   : 2
> > > model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
> > > stepping    : 4

sig 0xf24, 32-bit only, latest public microcode update: rev 0x20.

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 09:07:10AM +0200, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:
>   That is not correct. You can make use of SSE instructions also in
> x86_32/i386 mode.
> 
> I found f.i.:
> https://gcc.gcc.gnu.narkive.com/k0KqaZF2/i386-sse-test-question

Well x86_64 uses it all the time, not just optionally, and twice the
registers still matters.

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

[Michael Stone]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:05:39AM +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 15
model   : 2
model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
stepping    : 4
cpu MHz : 1993.656
cache size  : 512 KB

?


Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, 
there are many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket 
LGA775 also?


It is a Willamette on a socket 423.


Nope, that would be model 1; model 2 was northwood. It's much easier to 
look at the family/model than trying to guess based on the marketing 
name.


https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27433/intel-pentium-4-processor-2-00-ghz-512k-cache-400-mhz-fsb.html

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

[Valeri Galtsev]

On 4/17/22 4:52 AM, Cyril Brulebois wrote:

Elmar Stellnberger  (2022-04-17):

I haven´t heard yet of a Pentium IV supporting amd64.
Likely it does not exist.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_processors seems
to disagree in general. Willamette seems to be old enough to be 32-bit
only though.



Interesting. The architecture is called amd64 quite rightfully in my 
opinion, as it was first introduced by release in 2003 of Opteron CPU 
(project Hammer) by AMD (Advanced Micro Devices):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opteron

However, Intel continued calling CPUs "Pentium 4" and since 2004 Intel 
CPUs in Wikipedia article Cyril mentions:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_processors

are said to be "Intel 64". That article does not mention the core CPU 
data width not address width. If my memory serves me, these were the 
same 32 bit CPUs with "physical address extension" just expanding the 
ability of CPU to handle larger address space. So, wikipedia article 
about Pentium CPU is at least wrong when it points "Intel 64" to Opteron 
(Amd64 or its x86_64 synonym). But somebody more knowledgeable in the 
history may correct me.



Incidentally, technical documentation on Intel website for these later 
pentiums is not acessible. I just tried to take a look at the technical 
documentation to prove for myself that I'm wrong above... but no 
information from primary source: Intel, just something on wikipedia (and 
we don't even know who takes responsibility for what wikipedia page says).



Valeri

PS Of course, 32 bit CPU core can handle 64 bit data and addresses by 
using multiple operations for what 64 bit CPU will use a single one. 
Like pocket calculators which are using 1 to 4 bit addition register, 
yet happily processing really large numbers.




Cheers,

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

[Cyril Brulebois]

Elmar Stellnberger  (2022-04-17):
> I haven´t heard yet of a Pentium IV supporting amd64.
> Likely it does not exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_processors seems
to disagree in general. Willamette seems to be old enough to be 32-bit
only though.


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (k...@debian.org)
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant


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Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

[Elmar Stellnberger]

I haven´t heard yet of a Pentium IV supporting amd64.
Likely it does not exist.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:05:39AM +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> piorunz:
> > On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
> > > You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 1#
> > > 
> > > vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
> > > cpu family  : 6
> > > model   : 22
> > > model name  : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  440  @ 2.00GHz
> > > stepping    : 1
> > > microcode   : 0x43
> > > cpu MHz : 1229.629
> > > cache size  : 512 KB
> > > 
> > > and
> > > 
> > > 2#
> > > 
> > > vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
> > > cpu family  : 15
> > > model   : 2
> > > model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
> > > stepping    : 4
> > > cpu MHz : 1993.656
> > > cache size  : 512 KB
> > > 
> > > ?
> 
> > Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, there
> > are many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket LGA775
> > also?
> 
> It is a Willamette on a socket 423.
> 
> 
> 
> Friedhelm
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Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

[Friedhelm Waitzmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

piorunz:

On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware 



1#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 6
model   : 22
model name  : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  440  @ 2.00GHz
stepping    : 1
microcode   : 0x43
cpu MHz : 1229.629
cache size  : 512 KB

and

2#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 15
model   : 2
model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
stepping    : 4
cpu MHz : 1993.656
cache size  : 512 KB

?


Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not 
sure, there are many models and variations of this processor. Is 
it socket LGA775 also?


It is a Willamette on a socket 423. 




Friedhelm
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Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Elmar Stellnberger]

On 14.04.22 15:45, Levis Yarema wrote:

Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term
support?



  Depends on the application. Encryption and decryption
requiring the simulation of very larger integers shall be faster
when being based on 64bit integers. However these are rather
special purposes.
  CPU and memory intense applications like the SAT-solver I am
developing on the other hand will be faster on i386 since a
memory reference/ pointer only requires 4 byte instead of 8
byte. Smaller size will yield less memory access cycles and more
cache hits and that can make an application considerably faster.
It is the cache that is effectively more important than the
register layout. Some SAT-solvers like f.i. the DNNF-c2d are
only available for Linux/i386, not for amd64.
  Concerning general purpose applications normal integers keep
to be 32bit even on amd64. Note the sizeof(int). This is also
for the rationale described above. x86_32 programs can even be
smaller on disk and in memory. I personally don´t think that
there is much reason to use amd64 with 2GB ram or less, except
for bigint calculations.
  Note however that with a 64bit kernel you can execute programs
in a 64bit and 32bit chroot while this is impossible with a
32bit kernel. This is a reason why many people boot with a 64bit
kernel but use a 32bit installation. As for certain CPU and
memory intense programs you can run them as i386 binary even on
an x86_64 root given that i386 system libararies are installed
which is possible with dpkg --add-architecture i386.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Elmar Stellnberger]

On 15.04.22 04:50, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 03:45:37PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:

Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term
support?


Twice the registers and sse instructions for fpu rather than x87?



  That is not correct. You can make use of SSE instructions also in 
x86_32/i386 mode.


I found f.i.:
https://gcc.gcc.gnu.narkive.com/k0KqaZF2/i386-sse-test-question

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 03:45:37PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:
> Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
> choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term
> support?

Twice the registers and sse instructions for fpu rather than x87?

-- 
Len Sorensen

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Levis Yarema]

Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term
support?

Am Do., 14. Apr. 2022 um 10:38 Uhr schrieb Paul Wise :

> On Tue, 2022-04-12 at 05:59 +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
>
> > And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
> > amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the
> > migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
> > will be still i386.  How does that go right?
>
> If your hardware supports it, you can either reinstall from scratch or
> cross-grade an existing install from i386 to amd64, either using the
> crossgrader tool or more manual methods of doing the same thing.
>
> https://packages.debian.org/crossgrader
> https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading
>
> --
> bye,
> pabs
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
>

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Michael Stone]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 02:34:22PM +0200, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 03:11:04PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:18:30PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:
> What about Spectre /Meltdown? P3/P4/Pentium M systems don´t have that? Core 2
> systems to my knowledge can.

There's no reason to believe netburst systems are not affected by any of the
cpu issues identified in the past few years, but they are obsolete and
unsupported so nobody is making official statements about them. These
systems also lack a number of security features present in modern CPUs;
picking an ancient chip for "security reasons" is likely misguided. Also, in
the context of this thread, note that the most recent Core 2 processor was
released in 2010.



 AFAIK there is just no official statement of Intel about Pentium
III, IV and M CPUs. That may also be because they want(ed) people
to buy newer machines. Nonetheless I would be in wonder if
nobody at all had ever tested these CPUs for Spectre and
Meltdown. The issue itself wasn´t discovered by Intel either.


There's a general class of problems related to how CPUs handle various 
checks while executing out of order or speculative instructions. The 
specifics of how to exploit the vulnerabilities varies in different CPU
implementations, and new techniques are identified pretty regularly. 
Previous-gen atom processors weren't affected by most of this because 
they were strictly in-order. (Intel still supports those, and has issued 
"not vulnerable" statements for many of the CPU problems.) The netburst 
(pentium 4) architecture, by contrast, was out-of-order and had a huge 
pipeline (some even supported hyperthreading, which has been a whole bag 
of problems in itself.) It's really hard to believe that intel managed 
to get everything right 25 years ago in netburst and then just forgot 
how to do it with later generations. More plausibly, nobody is spending 
a lot of time researching how to exploit flaws in an architecture that 
is functionally obsolete. There's been a lot of wild speculation that 
Pentium 4 was some kind of high point for "secure" CPUs, but that's 
coming from internet pontificators rather than serious researchers.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Elmar Stellnberger]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 03:11:04PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:18:30PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:
> > What about Spectre /Meltdown? P3/P4/Pentium M systems don´t have that? Core 
> > 2
> > systems to my knowledge can.
> 
> There's no reason to believe netburst systems are not affected by any of the
> cpu issues identified in the past few years, but they are obsolete and
> unsupported so nobody is making official statements about them. These
> systems also lack a number of security features present in modern CPUs;
> picking an ancient chip for "security reasons" is likely misguided. Also, in
> the context of this thread, note that the most recent Core 2 processor was
> released in 2010.
> 

  AFAIK there is just no official statement of Intel about Pentium
III, IV and M CPUs. That may also be because they want(ed) people
to buy newer machines. Nonetheless I would be in wonder if
nobody at all had ever tested these CPUs for Spectre and
Meltdown. The issue itself wasn´t discovered by Intel either.

Elmar

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Elmar Stellnberger]

On 14.04.22 10:37, Paul Wise wrote:

On Tue, 2022-04-12 at 05:59 +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:


And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the
migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
will be still i386.  How does that go right?


If your hardware supports it, you can either reinstall from scratch or
cross-grade an existing install from i386 to amd64, either using the
crossgrader tool or more manual methods of doing the same thing.

https://packages.debian.org/crossgrader
https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading



  If I had to do it, I would just upgrade to Debian 11. It is most easy 
 to do and you do not need things like a crossgrader tool. Though the 
procedure seems somewhat difficult to me, it is interesting to know that 
something like crossgrading exists and where you find documentation 
about it.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Paul Wise]

On Tue, 2022-04-12 at 05:59 +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

> And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to 
> amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the 
> migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others 
> will be still i386.  How does that go right?

If your hardware supports it, you can either reinstall from scratch or
cross-grade an existing install from i386 to amd64, either using the
crossgrader tool or more manual methods of doing the same thing.

https://packages.debian.org/crossgrader
https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Levis Yarema]

What security features do P3/P4/PM systems lack? I only know that the Intel
ME was introduced with early Core 2 systems and that is well known to have
security issues. Today people spend extra money for a system where you can
disable the ME in the UEFI though it is only disabled by a setting then and
can be re-enabled any time. I would prefer a computer without Intel ME.

Am Mi., 13. Apr. 2022 um 21:11 Uhr schrieb Michael Stone :

> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:18:30PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:
> >What about Spectre /Meltdown? P3/P4/Pentium M systems don´t have that?
> Core 2
> >systems to my knowledge can.
>
> There's no reason to believe netburst systems are not affected by any of
> the cpu issues identified in the past few years, but they are obsolete
> and unsupported so nobody is making official statements about them.
> These systems also lack a number of security features present in modern
> CPUs; picking an ancient chip for "security reasons" is likely
> misguided. Also, in the context of this thread, note that the most
> recent Core 2 processor was released in 2010.
>
>

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:18:30PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:

What about Spectre /Meltdown? P3/P4/Pentium M systems don´t have that? Core 2
systems to my knowledge can.


There's no reason to believe netburst systems are not affected by any of 
the cpu issues identified in the past few years, but they are obsolete 
and unsupported so nobody is making official statements about them. 
These systems also lack a number of security features present in modern 
CPUs; picking an ancient chip for "security reasons" is likely 
misguided. Also, in the context of this thread, note that the most 
recent Core 2 processor was released in 2010.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 07:18:53PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:

If I would get an x64 CPU from a Linux pro, sure I would take it. Otherwise I
would not recommend to just take any old hardware for exchange with my working
one since not all of it was easily well supported by Linux these days, as far
as I can remember.


10 year old hardware is generally not a problem. You might have abysmal 
video performance, but so does anything with 20 year old hardware. In 
the worst case, if it doesn't work, pick different 10 year old hardware. 

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Levis Yarema]

On 13.04.22 16:44, piorunz wrote:

On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to amd64?  Can
this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the migrating some packages
will be from amd64 already while others will be still i386.  How does that
go right?


Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, there are
many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket LGA775 also?

What about Spectre /Meltdown? P3/P4/Pentium M systems don´t have that? Core
2 systems to my knowledge can.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Odo Poppinger]

On 13.04.22 19:18, Levis Yarema wrote:

If I would get an x64 CPU from a Linux pro, sure I would take it. 
Otherwise I would not recommend to just take any old hardware for 
exchange with my working one since not all of it was easily well 
supported by Linux these days, as far as I can remember.


   You can not replace any i386 machine with x64. Some old programs I 
am running only work with Windows XP and the serial and/or parallel 
port. Not every computer has that. However I do also need Linux, mainly 
for processing my data.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Levis Yarema]

On 13.04.22 17:11, piorunz wrote:
> On 13/04/2022 15:57, Michael Stone wrote:
>
>> family 15 model 2 is northwood based. no amd64. the best option for that
>> one is to find a cheap second hand box with a CPU that's only 10 years
>> old instead of (literally) 20 years old and retire it; those old p4's
>> were really power hungry, and it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement
>> for a cost (maybe even free) that will pay for itself in electricity
>> savings alone.
>>
> Ok. Yes indeed these CPUs are so old that I can give away better ones
> for free for this fellow Debian user if he is in my country.
> CPUs like that I sell on eBay from refurbished computers for almost
> zero, just as a hobby, to give it second life. Working on such machine
> is impossible apart from passive browsing and text typing.
>

If I would get an x64 CPU from a Linux pro, sure I would take it. Otherwise
I would not recommend to just take any old hardware for exchange with my
working one since not all of it was easily well supported by Linux these
days, as far as I can remember.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 05:32:10PM +0200, Odo Poppinger wrote:
I have a beloved P4 Gericom Frontman and I do not want to give it 
away. 


and that's fine, but it's increasingly unreasonable to try to run a 
modern general purpose OS on hardware that's 20 years old. if the driver
is nostalgia, something like freedos may be a better fit, or something 
like netbsd that makes support for obscure hardware a goal, or just 
sticking with the original OS. running a suitably stripped-down debian 
install is possible, but enough work that it's just not the best tool 
for the job.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Odo Poppinger]

I have a beloved P4 Gericom Frontman and I do not want to give it away. 
It had a new game changing design as can today be found with many Apple 
computers. I also have a P4 notebook and some i386 desktops, some of 
which I am dual booting with some Windows and OS/2. New computers with a 
setup from zero are no considerable option for me. But yes, why not 
upgrade to Debian 11.


Odo

On 13.04.22 17:11, piorunz wrote:

On 13/04/2022 15:57, Michael Stone wrote:


family 15 model 2 is northwood based. no amd64. the best option for that
one is to find a cheap second hand box with a CPU that's only 10 years
old instead of (literally) 20 years old and retire it; those old p4's
were really power hungry, and it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement
for a cost (maybe even free) that will pay for itself in electricity
savings alone.


Ok. Yes indeed these CPUs are so old that I can give away better ones
for free for this fellow Debian user if he is in my country.
CPUs like that I sell on eBay from refurbished computers for almost
zero, just as a hobby, to give it second life. Working on such machine
is impossible apart from passive browsing and text typing.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[piorunz]

On 13/04/2022 15:57, Michael Stone wrote:


family 15 model 2 is northwood based. no amd64. the best option for that
one is to find a cheap second hand box with a CPU that's only 10 years
old instead of (literally) 20 years old and retire it; those old p4's
were really power hungry, and it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement
for a cost (maybe even free) that will pay for itself in electricity
savings alone.


Ok. Yes indeed these CPUs are so old that I can give away better ones
for free for this fellow Debian user if he is in my country.
CPUs like that I sell on eBay from refurbished computers for almost
zero, just as a hobby, to give it second life. Working on such machine
is impossible apart from passive browsing and text typing.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 03:44:00PM +0100, piorunz wrote:

On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware

1#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 6
model   : 22
model name  : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  440  @ 2.00GHz
stepping    : 1
microcode   : 0x43
cpu MHz : 1229.629
cache size  : 512 KB

and

2#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 15
model   : 2
model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
stepping    : 4
cpu MHz : 1993.656
cache size  : 512 KB

?

And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to amd64?  
Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the migrating some 
packages will be from amd64 already while others will be still i386.  
How does that go right?


Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, 
there are many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket 
LGA775 also?


family 15 model 2 is northwood based. no amd64. the best option for that 
one is to find a cheap second hand box with a CPU that's only 10 years 
old instead of (literally) 20 years old and retire it; those old p4's 
were really power hungry, and it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement 
for a cost (maybe even free) that will pay for itself in electricity 
savings alone.

Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[piorunz]

On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware

1#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 6
model   : 22
model name  : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  440  @ 2.00GHz
stepping    : 1
microcode   : 0x43
cpu MHz : 1229.629
cache size  : 512 KB

and

2#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 15
model   : 2
model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
stepping    : 4
cpu MHz : 1993.656
cache size  : 512 KB

?

And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to amd64?  Can 
this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the migrating some 
packages will be from amd64 already while others will be still i386.  
How does that go right?


Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, there 
are many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket LGA775 also?


Celeron system I suggest to reinstall. Clean install, that is. Backup 
your /home partition and reinstall to Debian 11.


--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

[Friedhelm Waitzmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Dear Moritz!

Moritz Mühlenhoff:

Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
For the oldstable distribution (buster), these problems have 
been fixed in version 91.8.0esr-1~deb10u1.


 Where can I get this from for buster and architecture i386? 


 does not have it.


The Firefox ESR91 series triggers an internal compiler error 
with the GCC version included in Debian 10, so there's no build 
available currently.


Thank you for defining this. 



There's one for Debian 11 (where GCC builds it correctly), 



In the near future I will migrate to Debian 11. 



but I'd instead suggest to switch to amd64 instead. 



You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware 



1#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 6
model   : 22
model name  : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU  440  @ 2.00GHz
stepping: 1
microcode   : 0x43
cpu MHz : 1229.629
cache size  : 512 KB

and

2#

vendor_id   : GenuineIntel
cpu family  : 15
model   : 2
model name  : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
stepping: 4
cpu MHz : 1993.656
cache size  : 512 KB

?

And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to 
amd64?  Can this be done with the apt tools?  Then during the 
migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others 
will be still i386.  How does that go right?




I suggest, that further discussing should take place in
debian-am...@lists.debian.org.



Kind regards,
Friedhelm


My OpenPGP‐Key:

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