Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Pete Clarke]

Defects tend to happen to all the units in a certain production run.
If one goes, the others may go before you can replace & rebuild the
first bad drive.


Fair enough.


I'd still prefer to have all my RAID drives be the same manufacturer
+ model.  Maybe that's just an ingrained habit I picked up in the
1990s.


Indeed ... I thought it would be better to have all the same, as I remember 
different brands of drive sometimes had incompatibilities (WD and Maxtor 
spring to mind).
Also, as it defaults to the smallest size, having all drives the same means 
you don't lose any more space than the parity drive.


Cheers 



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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Johannes Graumann]

Greg Folkert wrote:

>> These are to Oxygen what nano is to emacs ... childsplay.
> 
> If you want Whizzbang, Wizard style, auto-magic crap, then why use a
> powerful OS?
> 
> I say its:
> 
> "Go back to Windows and Visual * something studio Pro-Live-Vista Crap"
> 
> And leave our "unpretty" but exceptionally powerful because you can
> actually SEE what is going on OS.
> 
> If you want help, then stop being a SNOB or Asshat, to the people you
> asked.

Point taken, but seriously: I've been writing XML using kate for a long
while now and let me tell you: using this whizzbang wizard style visual
crap instead, my productivity just goes through the roof in comparison. I'm
quite religious about open source (forced my new work place into giving me
a self-administered box, which instead of XP runs sid and the evil stuff
only through a virtual machine) and using ion3 as my window manager, you
will have a hard time calling me an eye candy addact or "doesn't want any
contact with the inner workings", but pragmatism will probably dictate to
leave the pure teachings for this particular task ... 
You call me a snob, but your disdain of an editor supporting its user while
dealing with highly structured stuff is nothing else either - no?

Joh


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Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/02/07 01:14, Pete Clarke wrote:
[snip]
>>> 4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives
>>
>> (Incidentally I would recommend against making a RAID array from
>> several drives from the same manufacturer. Especially if they're
>> the same model. Even more so if they're the same batch.)
> 
> Why so?

Defects tend to happen to all the units in a certain production run.
 If one goes, the others may go before you can replace & rebuild the
first bad drive.

I'd still prefer to have all my RAID drives be the same manufacturer
+ model.  Maybe that's just an ingrained habit I picked up in the
1990s.

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Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Pete Clarke]

For SATA, you need to add "-d ata" to the command line, i.e.:

# smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda


bungo:~# smartctl -d ata /dev/sda
smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

bungo:~# smartctl -d ata /dev/sdb
smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

bungo:~# smartctl -d ata /dev/sdc
smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

bungo:~# smartctl -d ata /dev/sdd
smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

Not much info...


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Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Pete Clarke]

There was/is an issue with certain Maxtor SATA hard disk drives.
In some cases, it is necessary to force them to SATA-I mode (1.5
gb/s). There's a jumper in the back for that.


Yep, set that :-)


4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives


(Incidentally I would recommend against making a RAID array from
several drives from the same manufacturer. Especially if they're
the same model. Even more so if they're the same batch.)


Why so?


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Re: goddammit

[M-L]

On Friday 02 February 2007 17:16, Incoming shared this with us all:
>--} I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or
> some such - and I can't even print.  I have also installed JRE, but I
> haven't found out how to connect it to Firefox. --}
>--} I can't downlosd from my digital camera.
>--}
>--} I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web.  There
> doesn't seem to be any one that will play them all, or, failing that,
> convert to a format that will play on what I have (Totem, RealPlayer which
> doesn't really work). --}
>--} Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and
> drowning in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run files
> that no longer exist or led from one useless document to another as I RTFM.
>  Well, boys and girls, so far any FM I have encountered is NFG or NWAPOCS
> (Not Worth A Pinch...).  I can't say that it's not entertaining, but I need
> a complete operating system and not some ill-fitting patches. --}
>--} Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known
> as rants or flames, don't waste my time. --}
>--} What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together
> and how it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer.  Not that
> I'd mind, it's just that, currently, I just don't have the time. --}


You might be trying to do too many things at once.
You might just install etch, or upgrade to etch. From the net or whatever way 
you want. That will do some of the things for you.

Then once done, one thing at a time, and people here will be able to help you.

It is good, wise and a great help to people who will gladly help you;- 
if you post any error messages. 
If you describe the hardware, eg camera you are trying to mount.

Frustration is understood on this list. But most people have worked through it 
and have perfectly running systems on laptops, desktops and other tops.
So it's doable, and some have done it easier than others.
But you give no information in your post.
Maybe try again.
We understand your frustration, but that was when we had absobloominlootly no 
idea either, and were helped through it on this list.

Be well,
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
+++
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without 
accepting it. .Aristotle

>>>
Linux Debian Etch


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Kamaraju Kusumanchi]

On Thursday 01 February 2007 17:51, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:31:23AM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote:
> > I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying
> > for Windows.
>
> A Macbook.  It even runs Etch, so you can setup a dual boot.  There is
> an excellent HOWTO at wiki.debian.org.  I've had mine for 8 months and I
> have never been happier with a computer that I owned.
>

Any given time, I would prefer to buy two dell laptops with the same 
configuration for the price of one macbook! But that's just me!!!

raju

-- 
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http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/

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goddammit

[Incoming]

I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or some such 
- and I can't even print.  I have also installed JRE, but I haven't found out 
how to connect it to Firefox.

I can't downlosd from my digital camera.

I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web.  There doesn't seem 
to be any one that will play them all, or, failing that, convert to a format 
that will play on what I have (Totem, RealPlayer which doesn't really work).

Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and drowning 
in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run files that no longer 
exist or led from one useless document to another as I RTFM.  Well, boys and 
girls, so far any FM I have encountered is NFG or NWAPOCS (Not Worth A 
Pinch...).  I can't say that it's not entertaining, but I need a complete 
operating system and not some ill-fitting patches.

Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known as 
rants or flames, don't waste my time.

What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together and how 
it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer.  Not that I'd mind, it's 
just that, currently, I just don't have the time.
__
Stops spam 100% for your email accounts or you get paid. http://www.cashette.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 23:41, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
>>
>> Remind me never to hire you.
>>
>> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?
>>
>> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.
> 
> For that I may implement my next database with MySQL (instead of
> Postgres like planned), just to spite you.

I'll live.

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Re: OT MySQL and PostgreSQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 22:19, Paul E Condon wrote:
> The recent heated discussion as to the relative merits of MySQL and
> PostgresSQL reminded me of a question that I want to ask of RDBMS
> experts, particularly experts who are willing to take a clear
> position. Namely, what do you think of the work of C. J. Date? He
> rejects SQL, as far as I can tell. Is there any support for this
> position in the real world?  Or in the academic world? What of
> his objection to null 'values'? How does this play out when doing
> mission critical DB? Does it matter? Or are there standards 
> techniques for avoiding any need for nulls? 
> 
> I look forward to reading an interesting discussion.

"SQL" isn't a complete/correct "expression" of relational algebra.
So, it can't express the full power of Codd/Date's theories.

As to support for this position in the real world, there's not much,
if any; SQL is Good Enough For Most Uses.  As for nulls, I don't see
a problem with them.  In fact, I think you need them, in order to
describe "unknown" data.  Non-DBMS systems make you use a "special
value", but if any bit of data actually has that "special value",
you're hosed.

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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 22:43, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 09:28:53AM +, Mihira Fernando wrote:
>> Random Quotes From Megas XLR
> 
> As much as I may love anime, I just can't deal with a series named
> "Megasex LR", even if it's not spelled that way.

I dunno.  Kiva was pretty hot looking.

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=inDL
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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
>
> Remind me never to hire you.
>
> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?
>
> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.

For that I may implement my next database with MySQL (instead of
Postgres like planned), just to spite you.


-- 
Angelo Bertolli
Please remove my email address from your post when replying
[Tech http://bitfreedom.com | Gaming http://heroesonly.com]


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Mihira Fernando]

Dave Sherohman wrote:


Yes, I'm paranoid that it's going to be full of tentacles...

(Seriously, though, I have watched an episode or two and it's simply
not my style.  I just like poking fun at the name.)


Its a pretty funny toon. Parodies quite a lot of shows, persons,
characters and some well known anime as well.

--
Random Quotes From Megas XLR
Coop: You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break
stuff.
Jamie: When in doubt, blow up a planet.
Kiva: It's an 80 foot robot, if we can't see it, absolutely it's not here.
Glorft Technician: Unnecessary use of force in capturing the Earthers
has been approved.



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greylistd / exim4 troubles -- how to troubleshoot?

[Monique Y. Mudama]

I'm wondering if this package "just worked" for anyone and if not, how
they got it to work, especially with exim4 and a monolithic exim4.conf
that was converted from an exim3 installation, on unstable.

greylistd-setup-exim4 only seemed to apply to the split config files.

After fiddling with the example exim4 rule to get past errors in running
exim4 and in the mainlog, I ended up with a setup that seemed to keep
deferring long after it should have accepted a message (the triplet was
the same, unlike, say, gmail messages that can show up with a different
IP address pretty much every time).  I never saw the greylist rule let
anything through -- it just kept deferring, even with the time gap set
to 1 minute.

I haven't been able to find any troubleshooting guides for greylistd
via google -- the expectation seems to be that it will "just work."

The example greylistd exim4 config starts with:

acl_check_rcpt:

But this doesn't seem right for my config file, which has:

begin acl

#!!# ACL that is used after the RCPT command
check_recipient:

This is what I tried in my exim4 config, inside the check_recipient
block.  The commented-out bits were causing complaints in exim4's
mainlog, which I will readily admit isn't a great reason for commenting
them out without understanding what they do.

  defer
message= $sender_host_address is not yet authorized to deliver \
 mail from <$sender_address> to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. \
 Please try later.
log_message= greylisted.
!senders   = :
   #!hosts = : +relay_from_hosts : \
   !hosts = : \
 ${if exists {/etc/greylistd/whitelist-hosts}\
 {/etc/greylistd/whitelist-hosts}{}} : \
 ${if exists {/var/lib/greylistd/whitelist-hosts}\
 {/var/lib/greylistd/whitelist-hosts}{}}
!authenticated = *
   #!acl   = acl_whitelist_local_deny
domains= +local_domains : +relay_to_domains
verify = recipient/callout=20s,use_sender,defer_ok
condition  = ${readsocket{/var/run/greylistd/socket}\
 {--grey \
  $sender_host_address \
  $sender_address \
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 {5s}{}{false}}

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
monique


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Dave Sherohman]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 11:50:27AM +, Mihira Fernando wrote:
> Dave Sherohman wrote:
> >As much as I may love anime, I just can't deal with a series named
> >"Megasex LR", even if it's not spelled that way.
> >
> Your love for anime shouldn't have any issues with a cartoon named Megas 
> XLR. However if it does, then you need professional help.

Yes, I'm paranoid that it's going to be full of tentacles...

(Seriously, though, I have watched an episode or two and it's simply
not my style.  I just like poking fun at the name.)

-- 
I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty
than those attending too small degree of it.
  - Thomas Jefferson


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How to disable AAAA query?

[Deephay]

Greetings all,

I am using ipv4 network and I found that the system will always do a
 query when name resolution is needed, which substantially slows
down the speed. How can I disable this? TIA!

Cheers,
Deephay


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Danesh Daroui]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 02/01/07 20:10, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>>>   
 (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users

 
>>> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
>>> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
>>> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
>>> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
>>>   
>> Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
>> forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot
> 
> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
> 
> Remind me never to hire you.
> 
>> weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
>> in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
>> means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.
> 
> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?
> 
> [snip]
>> It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
>> techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
>> habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
>> well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.
> 
>> But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
>> that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
>> having to learn that is faster for some people?
> 
> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.
> 


What a useless and boring discussion you have started Ron!! Do you have
to just be against everyone who thinks MySQL has at least some good
features too? I just dropped the discussion when realized that it goes
nowhere, but if you like to continue, learn a little about DBs. Maybe
you will learn more about what a DB should do and what is not necessary
like date verification which is only an overhead to DB and it is
developers job to check it before inserting it in DB, if you take a DB
course (4 credits would be enough). Believe me, you rally need it.


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Re: What is loading module pcspkr (inspite blacklist)?

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 06:16:35PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> Hello Debian Users,
> 
> I thought maybe somebody knows what loads the module pcspkr on a sid (up
> to date) with stock kernel 2.6.18-3-686?
> 
> I even blacklisted the module in /etc/modprobe.d/00local (I blacklisted
> ipv6 in the same file and it works correctly) and commented out the
> relevant entry in /etc/modprobe.d/pnp-hotplug
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Regards,
> Andrei
> P.S. Of course I can 'modprobe -r pcspkr', but this is not a very
> elegant solution.
> -- 
All I can add is that on one of my alsa recongnized sound cards, it had
a control for the pc speaker and I mute it. One solution.
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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Mihira Fernando]

Dave Sherohman wrote:


As much as I may love anime, I just can't deal with a series named
"Megasex LR", even if it's not spelled that way.

Your love for anime shouldn't have any issues with a cartoon named Megas 
XLR. However if it does, then you need professional help.


--
Random Quotes From Megas XLR
Coop: You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break 
stuff.

Jamie: When in doubt, blow up a planet.
Kiva: It's an 80 foot robot, if we can't see it, absolutely it's not here.
Glorft Technician: Unnecessary use of force in capturing the Earthers 
has been approved.



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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Dave Sherohman]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 09:28:53AM +, Mihira Fernando wrote:
> Random Quotes From Megas XLR

As much as I may love anime, I just can't deal with a series named
"Megasex LR", even if it's not spelled that way.

-- 
I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty
than those attending too small degree of it.
  - Thomas Jefferson


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Re: What is loading module pcspkr (inspite blacklist)?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 03:25:16PM +1100, John O'Hagan wrote:
> On Friday 02 February 2007 03:16, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > Hello Debian Users,
> >
> > I thought maybe somebody knows what loads the module pcspkr on a sid (up
> > to date) with stock kernel 2.6.18-3-686?
> >
> > I even blacklisted the module in /etc/modprobe.d/00local (I blacklisted
> > ipv6 in the same file and it works correctly) and commented out the
> > relevant entry in /etc/modprobe.d/pnp-hotplug
> >
> 
> Hi Andrei, 
> 
> No solution I'm afraid, just a "me too": this came up a little while back 
> here 
> as:
> 
> etch : not loading some kernel modules howto ?
> 
> No solution was posted at the time; it happens on my etch box too. I found a 
> reference to pcspkr in /etc/udev/persistent-input.rules and commented it out; 
> but that pesky module just won't stay down!

for the truly inelegant solution, what if you just rename/move aside
that thing? surely will cause an error, but will it make the whole
system barf? doubt it. 

A


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Re: What is loading module pcspkr (inspite blacklist)?

[John O'Hagan]

On Friday 02 February 2007 03:16, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> Hello Debian Users,
>
> I thought maybe somebody knows what loads the module pcspkr on a sid (up
> to date) with stock kernel 2.6.18-3-686?
>
> I even blacklisted the module in /etc/modprobe.d/00local (I blacklisted
> ipv6 in the same file and it works correctly) and commented out the
> relevant entry in /etc/modprobe.d/pnp-hotplug
>

Hi Andrei, 

No solution I'm afraid, just a "me too": this came up a little while back here 
as:

etch : not loading some kernel modules howto ?

No solution was posted at the time; it happens on my etch box too. I found a 
reference to pcspkr in /etc/udev/persistent-input.rules and commented it out; 
but that pesky module just won't stay down!

Regards,

John


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OT MySQL and PostgreSQL

[Paul E Condon]

The recent heated discussion as to the relative merits of MySQL and
PostgresSQL reminded me of a question that I want to ask of RDBMS
experts, particularly experts who are willing to take a clear
position. Namely, what do you think of the work of C. J. Date? He
rejects SQL, as far as I can tell. Is there any support for this
position in the real world?  Or in the academic world? What of
his objection to null 'values'? How does this play out when doing
mission critical DB? Does it matter? Or are there standards 
techniques for avoiding any need for nulls? 

I look forward to reading an interesting discussion.

-- 
Paul E Condon   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Intel 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7 Family) SATA AHCI Controller driver for linux-2.6.9

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 10:43:28AM +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi;
>   Due to my clearcase linux thin client version which comes with
> mvfs module that is built against linux-2.6.9 kernel headers, I have to
> use this version of linux kernel on my workstation which uses Intel
> 82801GBM SATA AHCI Controller for harddisks. Linux-2.6.9 does not have
> the driver for the chipset. I have searched packages.debian.org and
> googled for it but I can't find it. Can anyone here give me some
> pointers where I could download the driver source/module for this intel
> sata chipset?
> 

Have you tried a daily-build Etch installer?  Perhaps the kernel in the
installer includes a driver for that chipset already.

Doug.


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Hal Vaughan]

On Friday 02 February 2007 04:28, Mihira Fernando wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >>> Naaa... South Park :)
> >>
> >> /South Park/ and /Family Guy/ are funny in small doses.  Mostly,
> >> they are just boorish.
> >>
> >> /Futurama/ is *the* modern animated show.
> >
> > If you're talking modern, my vote is for Gargoyles.
>
> All this talk about Animations and not even a peek about animations
> with substance.. Anime.
> All time favorites remain Now and Then Here and There (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Now_and_then_here_and_there )
>   and Grave of the fireflies (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_of_the_fireflies )

Who said we were looking for deep substance?  I watch for fun.  I've got 
too much substance in my life.  For now, I'm wrestling with way too 
much programming and when that's done, it's back to writing and I write 
a lot about issues involving people searching for meaning in life.  
When I want a toon, I want a toon, not Shakespeare.

> --
> Random Quotes From Megas XLR
> Coop: You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you
> break stuff.
> Jamie: When in doubt, blow up a planet.
> Kiva: It's an 80 foot robot, if we can't see it, absolutely it's not
> here. Glorft Technician: Unnecessary use of force in capturing the
> Earthers has been approved.

Yep.  Those are real statements of substance! ;-)

Hal


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Re: Jonny Question

[Hal Vaughan]

On Thursday 01 February 2007 22:00, Max Hyre wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> > The wiki article mentions nothing of a similarly-titled book.
>
>In fact, it mentions its inspiration being, among others, the
> _Jack Armstrong_ radio show and Milt Caniff's comics, as well as his
> name being spelled `Jonny'.  Sounds as if there's no relation, though
> you'd think the similarity of names would have led to some
> indignation.  Maybe they were so much more easygoing back then that
> no one invoked the DMCA.
>
>  :-).  (Thunderbird's spell checker suggests that should be YMCA.)
>
>On Google, any mention of the book is drowned in the tsunami of
> cartoon references, so that's a dead end.
>
>Thanks for the info, though.  Now I know.

Try this link:

http://www.classicjq.com/artifacts/pubs/JQHardbackBooks.shtml

No underwater city books that I noticed, but there's other links from 
the main page (just the domain name, no directories).  Click 
on "Memorabilia" for info on other books and magazines and such.

While searching on Google, include something like this:

+"Jonny Quest" +book -cartoon -animation

and see if that helps.  The minus will make sure a term does not appear.

Hal


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Re: Fonts problem on Debian Etch

[David Shultz]

Is there anyway to fix the blurriness of Gnome Logon Screen which has the
same blurriness
problem I was complaining about? Is Gnome Logon Screen using a diffrent
refresh rate
other than Gnome? I really want to dive into the freedom of linux. Please
help me.

Re: Etch is REALLY fast! :-)

[Dave Witbrodt]

Colin wrote:

Dave Witbrodt wrote:

  Thanks for the tip.  As it turns out I already knew about this. It's
just that AMD/ATI just released a brand new driver package this month,
and I wanted that:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache policy fglrx-kernel-src
fglrx-kernel-src:
  Installed: 8.33.6-1
  Candidate: 8.33.6-1
  Version table:
 *** 8.33.6-1 0
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
 8.28.8-4 0
400 http://debian.uchicago.edu etch/non-free Packages


This is also what I'm waiting for.  I see that sid currently has 8.31
which doesn't do my Radeon X1600 Pro any good.  8.33 is the first
version to fix the xvideo problem so I can use tvtime with x.org.


   You may have misunderstood.  When I said I wanted 8.33, I meant
that I installed ATI's proprietary driver by compiling it myself,
instead of using the Debian 8.28 package.  I didn't mean that I'm
still _waiting_!
   I found it terribly easy to install, though I've done it before so
maybe I'm just getting used to it.  I can tell you the steps I used,
if you're interested


DW


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Re: Jonny Question

[Max Hyre]

Ron Johnson wrote:

> The wiki article mentions nothing of a similarly-titled book.

   In fact, it mentions its inspiration being, among others, the _Jack
Armstrong_ radio show and Milt Caniff's comics, as well as his name
being spelled `Jonny'.  Sounds as if there's no relation, though you'd
think the similarity of names would have led to some indignation.  Maybe
they were so much more easygoing back then that no one invoked the DMCA.
 :-).  (Thunderbird's spell checker suggests that should be YMCA.)

   On Google, any mention of the book is drowned in the tsunami of
cartoon references, so that's a dead end.

   Thanks for the info, though.  Now I know.

-- 
Best wishes,

 Max Hyre




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Re: CPU time

[Frank McCormick]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:33:05 -0500
Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 09:22:08AM -0500, Frank McCormick wrote:
>  
> > I accidentally discovered this morning that Xorg is taking up 25
> > percent of cpu time when at idle. Is this normal or should I file a bug?
> > 
> > I'm running Etch.
> 
> I suppose it depends on what kind of box you're running.  I haven't got
> Etch on my 486 yet.  On my Athlon amd64, it sits there at 100% idle.
> 
> >From within X, open a single terminal.  run nice top.  Watch the process
> activity and also the memory.  Perhaps its swapping and the CPU is
> spending a lot of time waiting.

  First thing I did. No swapping, no activity but Xorg sits at the top
averaging 25 percent. Strange thing is it doesn't seem to affect the feel of
the desktop, but then maybe it'd be a lot faster if that much CPU wasn't being
sucked up. Anybody else experiencing this ??
 

- -- 
Cheers

Frank

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Intel 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7 Family) SATA AHCI Controller driver for linux-2.6.9

[KokHow.Teh]

Hi;
Due to my clearcase linux thin client version which comes with
mvfs module that is built against linux-2.6.9 kernel headers, I have to
use this version of linux kernel on my workstation which uses Intel
82801GBM SATA AHCI Controller for harddisks. Linux-2.6.9 does not have
the driver for the chipset. I have searched packages.debian.org and
googled for it but I can't find it. Can anyone here give me some
pointers where I could download the driver source/module for this intel
sata chipset?

:00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE
Controller (rev 01) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP])
Subsystem: Dell: Unknown device 01ad
Control: I/O+ Mem- BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop-
ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B-
Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort-
SERR- 
Region 1: I/O ports at 
Region 2: I/O ports at 
Region 3: I/O ports at 
Region 4: I/O ports at ffa0 [size=16]

:00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7
Family) Serial ATA Storage Controllers cc=IDE (rev 01) (prog-if 8f
[Master SecP SecO PriP PriO])
Subsystem: Dell: Unknown device 01ad
Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop-
ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B-
Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort-
SERR- 

Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

Regards,
Kok How

Re: Boot logs ?

[Frank McCormick]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 19:00:57 + (GMT)
"s. keeling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >  deb ftp://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/debian/ testing main non-free contrib
> >  deb-src ftp://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/debian/ testing main non-free contrib
> >  deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
> > 
> > >   ii) IFF that points to Etch/testing, have you done a dist-upgrade?
> > 
> >  It doesn't but I have done many update/dist-upgrades since the
> >  installation.
> 
> Welcome to testing (Etch), at least for the moment.  As soon as Etch
> goes stable, that sources.list is set up to take you automatically to
> Lenny.  You can forestall that (stay with Etch), if you wish, by
> replacing the string "testing" with "etch" now.  Then you'll stay with
> Etch when it goes stable.  I prefer to use the names.  That lets me
> see what others run into in the upgrade before I jump.  YMMV.


   Yes I have done that already, along with the suggestion of keeping "testing"
on the security update line to ensure I get them!


> >  switch to Debian I haven't booted it. But Debian is just different
> >  enough from Ubuntu that I feel a bit lost at times.
> 
> They are a bit of an odd crowd.  

  No disagreement here.

> Someone mentioned the other day the
> single greatest accomplishment of *buntu so far has been vacuuming the
> worst of the clueless noobs out of here and into *buntu.  


  There are days I feel like oneI wonder how many have come to Debian from
the forks. For me there are just too many unanswered questions in that crowd,
similar to Mepis. I think the attraction to Ubuntu is the bleeding edge
approach they are taking, but I wonder sometimes if they haven't bitten off
more than they can chew :)

> No, you
> don't appear to meet that specification at all so far.  :-)
   

   Nice to know :)

- -- 
Cheers

Frank

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Greg Folkert]

On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 20:37 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02/01/07 20:10, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> > Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> >> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> >>   
> >>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
> >>>
> >>> 
> >> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
> >> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
> >> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
> >> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
> >>   
> > 
> > Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
> > forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot
> 
> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
> 
> Remind me never to hire you.

Was that 3rd normal form?


> > weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
> > in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
> > means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.
> 
> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?

Nah they use 31st normal form.

> [snip]
> > It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
> > techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
> > habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
> > well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.
> > 
> > But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
> > that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
> > having to learn that is faster for some people?
> 
> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.

nulleth normal form! Of course, lets name a table "field" and in table
"field" name a field "table".

Believe it or not, I've SEEN that. Trying to get someone who did the DB
design *WHY* it isn't good to use a reserved name for an object... or
how about a field called "count" being used as "record-no" except when
it had a duplicate... then the field "sub-count" was used.

Yeah, systems designed during "programming classes" should NOT go into
production... *EVAR*1!11!

I also asked how they got the DB to accept the names... they forced it
with the exceptions rules to de-reserve reserved names and then renamed
the reserved name.

Hell, I didn't think you could force that. But think of the maintainers
behind the implementers. Imagine the surprise when they looked at the
SQL and saw the normal reserved words in the wrong places, and things in
the reserved word positions being something else?
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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/02/07 03:28, Mihira Fernando wrote:
> Hal Vaughan wrote:
> [snip]
 Naaa... South Park :)
>>> /South Park/ and /Family Guy/ are funny in small doses.  Mostly,
>>> they are just boorish.
>>>
>>> /Futurama/ is *the* modern animated show.
>>
>> If you're talking modern, my vote is for Gargoyles.
> 
> All this talk about Animations and not even a peek about animations with
>  substance.. Anime.
> All time favorites remain Now and Then Here and There (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Now_and_then_here_and_there )
>  and Grave of the fireflies (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_of_the_fireflies )

When I want substance, I'll read Slashdot.

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 20:10, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>>   
>>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
>>>
>>> 
>> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
>> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
>> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
>> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
>>   
> 
> Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
> forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot

That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.

Remind me never to hire you.

> weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
> in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
> means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.

Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?

[snip]
> It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
> techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
> habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
> well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.
> 
> But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
> that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
> having to learn that is faster for some people?

It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.

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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Mihira Fernando]

Hal Vaughan wrote:
[snip]

Naaa... South Park :)

/South Park/ and /Family Guy/ are funny in small doses.  Mostly,
they are just boorish.

/Futurama/ is *the* modern animated show.


If you're talking modern, my vote is for Gargoyles.


All this talk about Animations and not even a peek about animations with 
 substance.. Anime.
All time favorites remain Now and Then Here and There ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Now_and_then_here_and_there )
 and Grave of the fireflies ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_of_the_fireflies )


--
Random Quotes From Megas XLR
Coop: You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break 
stuff.

Jamie: When in doubt, blow up a planet.
Kiva: It's an 80 foot robot, if we can't see it, absolutely it's not here.
Glorft Technician: Unnecessary use of force in capturing the Earthers 
has been approved.



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Re: Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>   
>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
>>
>> 
> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
>   

Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot
weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.

MySQL is to the database world what PHP is to the programming language
world:  feels sloppy... but it's fast and easy.  I still don't think
that makes PHP "not a real language," although I'm sure it feels that
way to some people.  I wouldn't write anything but a dynamic website in
PHP, but as far as I'm concerned PHP is the best thing to write a
dynamic website in.  I'm not quite so adamant about using MySQL for
certain things, but I do feel like it's a perfectly appropriate solution
sometimes.

>> things.  Yeah, it sucks that MySQL requires an application layer to any 
>> system (i.e. you, as the programmer, must provide rules, enforce data 
>> integrity, and up until recently even manage your own foreign keys).  
>> 
>
> OK.  How in the world does this sort of garbage shorten the user's
> learning curve.  You are contradicting yourself.
>   

It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.

But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
having to learn that is faster for some people?


-- 
Angelo Bertolli
Please remove my email address from your post when replying
[Tech http://bitfreedom.com | Gaming http://heroesonly.com]


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Re: best log checker

[Paul Johnson]

Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:

> I'm trying to find a good log checker.
> 
> Basically, I want it to report anything that I don't tell it to ignore.
> 
> I've tried logcheck first and when I couldn't get it to do what I want I
> tried logwatch.  It has an ignore file that it says to just cut and
> paste what you want to ignore.  I do that and it doesn't ignore it.
> Some docs mention that its all based on regular expressions so I tried
> enclosing the lines in quotes to no avial.
> 
> I do neither perl nor RE: they're both too cryptic.  I guess I'll never
> be a true *N*X weenie.

regexp's are much easier to learn quickly with kregexpeditor.



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Re: Outlook clients and Linux Debian

[Paul Johnson]

Hervé Piedvache wrote:

> What kind of solution could I find to this stuff under a Debian Linux
> service ?

If you happen to run postfix for an MTA, Kolab might be exactly what you are
looking for.  If not, you may now curse Kolab's rather interesting
dependency on a specific MTA.
http://www.kolab.org/
http://pkg-kolab.alioth.debian.org/



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Re: How do I undelete a file in GNU/Linux or UNIX?

[Paul Johnson]

Glen Yu wrote:

> If I accidentally deleted a file in any GNU/Linux or Unix-based OS, is
> there anyway I can recover those files?

The good news is the file can be recovered in exactly the same way as you do
in windows:  Restore the file from a recent backup.

The bad news is you need to have a backup handy.  External firewire hard
drives of massive capacity are getting inexpensive, and faubackup can
handle nightly backups like a champ.



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kernel image: difference between xen and xen-vserver

[Rakotomandimby (R12y) Mihamina]

Hi,
What is the difference between those two kernels?
Their description is the same and I dont know which one to take...
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/admin/linux-image-2.6.18-4-xen-amd64
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/admin/linux-image-2.6.18-4-xen-vserver-amd64

Thank you for your answer


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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Greg Folkert]

On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 23:53 +0100, Johannes Graumann wrote:
> Greg Folkert wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 23:09 +0100, Johannes Graumann wrote:
> >> Hi there,
> >> 
> >> Am crawling through the web on a search for a proper XML editor, that
> >> makes life easier and speaks XSD ... got suckered into a trial license of
> >> oxygen for Eclipse ... and am loving it ...
> >> Desperation takes over: is there no NICE XML editor that's licensed
> >> compatibly with the Debian guidelines?
> > 
> > conglomerate - user-friendly XML editor
> > kxmleditor - XML Editor for KDE
> > mlview - An xml editor for GNOME environment
> > 
> > Just to name a few.
> 
> These are to Oxygen what nano is to emacs ... childsplay.

If you want Whizzbang, Wizard style, auto-magic crap, then why use a
powerful OS?

I say its: 

"Go back to Windows and Visual * something studio Pro-Live-Vista Crap"

And leave our "unpretty" but exceptionally powerful because you can
actually SEE what is going on OS.

If you want help, then stop being a SNOB or Asshat, to the people you
asked.
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Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: Johnny Question

[Hal Vaughan]

On Thursday 01 February 2007 18:37, Max Hyre wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Just as there are spin-off books of movies, I would not be
> > surprised if there were/are spin-off book of popular cartoons.
>
>Was the cartoon around in 1962?  That's when I was reading the
> book.

The show was in the mid or late 1960s.  Check the IMDB for absolute 
dates.

Hal


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Re: Etch is REALLY fast! :-)

[Colin]

Dave Witbrodt wrote:
>   Thanks for the tip.  As it turns out I already knew about this. It's
> just that AMD/ATI just released a brand new driver package this month,
> and I wanted that:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache policy fglrx-kernel-src
> fglrx-kernel-src:
>   Installed: 8.33.6-1
>   Candidate: 8.33.6-1
>   Version table:
>  *** 8.33.6-1 0
> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>  8.28.8-4 0
> 400 http://debian.uchicago.edu etch/non-free Packages

This is also what I'm waiting for.  I see that sid currently has 8.31
which doesn't do my Radeon X1600 Pro any good.  8.33 is the first
version to fix the xvideo problem so I can use tvtime with x.org.


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Re: spcaview

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 06:54:49PM -0500, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:26:12PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On 02/01/07 16:59, Bayrouni wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > > 
> > > Is there any spcaview package for debian.
> > > I made some searchs but nothing. (aptitude, google)
> > 
> > How do you view the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals?
> 
> IceDog ofcourse.
> 
> cat?
> 
> In X with a mouse?
> 
> Sorry :)
> 

ahem...

to answer OP's question. I don't think there are packages. use the
source luke.

A


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:34:45PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >
> >more and more I think I should be building and selling
> >debian-installed computers...
> >
> 
> But would they sell ;-)
> 

I know i can count on you to buy one...

A


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Re: Dual head setup

[Greg Vickers]

Hello Hans,

Hans du Plooy wrote:

Hi Greg, thanks for your reply


To get my video card working and stable, I had to use the fglrx module
provided by ATI. (http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html

Mine is a Radeon 7000 - not supported by fglrx, but supported by the
opensource radeon driver.


You are right, I didn't notice at the time.


Before I did all the above, I did get the dual head working under Xorg
with the radeon module, but it would frequently crash with this message
in Xorg.0.log:
(EE) RADEON(0): FIFO timed out, resetting engine...
This xorg.conf is also included below.


It would be unstable because the radeon module has little more than basic
support for the X600.  Was this dual head in an extended desktop mode (as
opposed to mirror)?  Do you by any chance still have this config file
around?


Huh, great - I included two xorg.conf files in my previous email, one 
that crashed with the radeon module and the second one that works with 
the fglrx module.



Here is my config.

Thanks, I'll try adapting mine with your one's info tonight and see how it
goes.


Good luck!

--
Greg Vickers
IT Security Engineer & Project Manager
IT Security, Network Services,
Information Technology Services
Queensland University of Technology
L12, 126 Margaret St, Brisbane

Phone: +61 7 3138 9536
Mobile: 0410 434 734
Fax: +61 7 3138 2921
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RE: ProFTPD fails to start

[Kevin Ross]

> -Original Message-
> From: redhat penguin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 3:23 PM
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: ProFTPD fails to start
> 
> hi,
> 
> I just installed ProFTPD using 'apt-get install proftpd'.
> The installation was successful but it said: ProFTPd warning: cannot
> start neither in standalone nor in inetd/xinetd mode. Check your
> configuration.
> My /etc/proftpd.conf has:
> 
> ServerName "rhftp"
> ServerType inetd
> DeferWelcome off

... [snipped rest of config file]

Change ServerType from inetd to standalone.

> Also i seem to have a 'proftpd' dir. in /etc (/etc/proftpd) inside
> there is: modules.conf  and proftpd.conf is this normal?

That is the normal place for the config files.  On my system, I
don't have a /etc/proftpd.conf, it is in the /etc/proftpd directory.
You should probably remove the one under /etc and use the one in
/etc/proftpd.

-- Kevin



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mdadm - raid1 - sata - udev - kernel-2.6.16-2-686 - Problems

[Richard]

debian sarge -  mdadm 1.8.0-4sarge1



my problem is that on reboot the only md device that comes up is md1 which 
is the / device that gets compiled into the initrd.img.


in the boot sequence when it comes to mounting the others from /etc/fstab it 
can't find the md device and drops me to maintentance mode.


If I remove the devices from fstab and just let the initrd.img do it's stuff 
then it boots fine. from that point If I run /etc/init.d/mdadm-raid start it 
doesn't work, but if I run /sbin/mdrun then all the md devices appear as 
they should.


I am a little confused as to what's happening,  If I put /sbin/mdrun in the 
init.d and run it at level 20 the md devices will load, but they still will 
not mount correctly out of /etc/fstab.


After it has booted i can mount manually no problems.

I have added these to /etc/udev/links.conf

M md0 b 9 0
M md1 b 9 1
M md2 b 9 2
M md3 b 9 3
M md4 b 9 4

I am wondering if this is something to do with udev.

Any Clues anyone ?

Richard



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Re: spcaview

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 05:26:12PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02/01/07 16:59, Bayrouni wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > Is there any spcaview package for debian.
> > I made some searchs but nothing. (aptitude, google)
> 
> How do you view the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals?

IceDog ofcourse.

cat?

In X with a mouse?

Sorry :)

Doug.


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Re: Johnny Question

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 17:37, Max Hyre wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> 
>> Just as there are spin-off books of movies, I would not be surprised
>> if there were/are spin-off book of popular cartoons.
> 
>Was the cartoon around in 1962?  That's when I was reading the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Quest

The wiki article mentions nothing of a similarly-titled book.
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=tljB
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Re: Johnny Question

[Max Hyre]

Ron Johnson wrote:

> Just as there are spin-off books of movies, I would not be surprised
> if there were/are spin-off book of popular cartoons.

   Was the cartoon around in 1962?  That's when I was reading the book.

-- 
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 Max Hyre




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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:04:05PM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:18:05AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote:
 It's probably worth getting a 
larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual 
boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are 
not hardware related.  But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that 
might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned).

how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable
operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is
failing...

A

That seems to be a bigger issue than get a pseudo-ms-less desktop like
Dell now offers. You can get it with a freedos floppy but you have to
buy a box of Suse which Dell will not install or support. So how exactly
will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont
have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? And of
course that any free OS system will just cost more. So it is less than
useless to have an OS-free machine, if in order to get support from Dell
or other folks, you need Winblows for them to address and fix your
computer woes. You will always need winbows to get official support and
to install bios updates and other things.
It seems with a free os you can never recieve support from an ISP, hw
 manufacture, laptop maker, etc. Unless you find someone like system76,
 pogolinux, etc. And that is not much in the way of consumer choice.


more and more I think I should be building and selling
debian-installed computers...



But would they sell ;-)


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Re: spcaview

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 16:59, Bayrouni wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Is there any spcaview package for debian.
> I made some searchs but nothing. (aptitude, google)

How do you view the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals?
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91SYTcwSU7Mpf/GJ/i55n14=
=ldOY
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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 16:55, Johannes Graumann wrote:
> I'd prefer to concentrate on my xml rather than on the editor ...

Learn vim and you won't need to concentrate on the editor.

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u+ad1yCQiaKRrUBi5MCrZ2c=
=S8LY
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ProFTPD fails to start

[redhat penguin]

hi,

I just installed ProFTPD using 'apt-get install proftpd'.
The installation was successful but it said: ProFTPd warning: cannot
start neither in standalone nor in inetd/xinetd mode. Check your
configuration.
My /etc/proftpd.conf has:

ServerName "rhftp"
ServerType inetd
DeferWelcome off

ShowSymlinks on
MultilineRFC2228  on
DefaultServer on
ShowSymlinks on
AllowOverwrite on

TimeoutNoTransfer  600
TimeoutStalled 600
TimeoutIdle 1200

DisplayLoginwelcome.msg
DisplayFirstChdir   .message
LsDefaultOptions"-l"

# Port 21 is the standard FTP port.
Port21

# Umask 022 is a good standard umask to prevent new files and dirs
# (second parm) from being group and world writable.
Umask022  022

# To prevent DoS attacks, set the maximum number of child processes
# to 30.  If you need to allow more than 30 concurrent connections
# at once, simply increase this value.  Note that this ONLY works
# in standalone mode, in inetd mode you should use an inetd server
# that allows you to limit maximum number of processes per service
# (such as xinetd)
MaxInstances 30

# Set the user and group that the server normally runs at.
Usernobody
Groupnogroup

# Normally, we want files to be overwriteable.

 AllowOverwrite  on


# A basic anonymous configuration, no upload directories.


 Userftp
 Groupnogroup
 # We want clients to be able to login with "anonymous" as well as "ftp"
 UserAlias anonymous ftp

 RequireValidShell  off

 # Limit the maximum number of anonymous logins
 MaxClients 10

 # We want 'welcome.msg' displayed at login, and '.message' displayed
 # in each newly chdired directory.
 DisplayLogin welcome.msg
 DisplayFirstChdir  .message

 # Limit WRITE everywhere in the anonymous chroot
 
   
 DenyAll
   
 

 # Uncomment this if you're brave.
 

DenyAll


AllowAll

 



Can someone tell me what could be/is wrong?
Also i seem to have a 'proftpd' dir. in /etc (/etc/proftpd) inside
there is: modules.conf  and proftpd.conf is this normal?


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RE: Pathetic SATA performance

[Kevin Ross]

> > What does smartmontools say about the drive's S.M.A.R.T.s?
> >
> 
> I get:
> 
> bungo:~# smartctl --all /dev/sda
> smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 
> 2002-6 Bruce Allen
> Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Device: ATA  ST3250620AS  Version: 3.AA
> Serial number: 9QE0MLDS
> Device type: disk
> Local Time is: Thu Feb  1 22:14:32 2007 GMT
> Device does not support SMART
> 
> Error Counter logging not supported
> 
> [GLTSD (Global Logging Target Save Disable) set. Enable Save 
> with '-S on']
> Device does not support Self Test logging

For SATA, you need to add "-d ata" to the command line, i.e.:

# smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda



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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 17:03, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 04:37:39PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
[snip]
> Yes, they were "fast" when computers were still slow.  Unfortunately,
> many people were willing to give up data integrity in exchange for
> "fast".

And install layer upon layer of AV software on POS operating
systems, and *still* get 0wn3d and turned into mal-bots.

That's sheeple for ya...
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Re: How to change some staff in evolution?

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 01:34:35PM +0300, Vladimir Kozlov wrote:
> 
> Kevin Mark wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Vladimir,
> > I think what you want is to change the locale when you run evolution.
> > try this:
> > LC_ALL=en_US evolution
> > cheers,
> > Kev
> 
> Another (stupid) question - how I should change the menu in Gnome in
> order to add LC_ALL=en_US ? Simply changing the command in menu from
> 
> evolution --component=mail
> 
> to
> 
> LC_ALL=en_US evolution --component=mail
> 
> does not work - I've got an error "LC_ALL=en_US" (No such file or
> directory)...

Try
bash -c "LC_ALL=en_US evolution --component=mail"

instead

-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://karl.jorgensen.com
 Today's fortune:
"Given the choice between accomplishing something and just lying around,
I'd rather lie around.  No contest."
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Re: old hardware, newer Debian

[s. keeling]

Mike McClain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  I just installed sarge on a box I've happily been running woody on
>  for 5 years and find I can't run X cause the Trident tvga 9800b
>  chipset is no longer supported in the xserver-xfree86 v4.3. Any

Try the svga driver.  I'm using a PCI Matrox card, development of
which was stopped long ago.  svga driver picked up the slack and it
works beautifully.

>  body got any idea what risks I'd run to install woody X stuff on
>  sarge or is there a better way?


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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 04:37:39PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> 
> The fundamental difference is licensing.  If Windows was open source, I 
> certainly wouldn't bother disagreeing with them if they specified which 
> users would benefit more from Windows.  And on that issue MySQL wins 
> because you can have it under the GPL.  Postgres is under BSD. (I guess 
> that's arguable, but we are on a Debian list after all.)
> 
It depends on whether your definition of "freeness" is biased toward
developers or end users.

Basically, on technical merits, MySQL benefits practically nobody.

> 
> (By the way, you actually get different transactional results based on 
> what kind of storage you tell MySQL to use.  InnoDB is better but slower 
> than MyISAM.  Gee, I wonder if there could be a tradeoff there.)
> 
Yes, because MyISAM is *not* transactional at all.  Not just that, but
if you have a query/transaction that involves upty-bazillion InnoDB
(transactional) tables and only *one* MyISAM table, then the *entire*
query/transaction is *not* transactional.

> MySQL got the upper hand for having "better" priorities early on, and 
> now they're enjoying their popularity.  It didn't really matter that 

Yes, they were "fast" when computers were still slow.  Unfortunately,
many people were willing to give up data integrity in exchange for
"fast".

Regards,

-Roberto

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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Johannes Graumann]

I'd prefer to concentrate on my xml rather than on the editor ...

Joh

Mathias Brodala wrote:

> Hello Johannes.
> 
> Johannes Graumann, 01.02.2007 23:09:
>> Am crawling through the web on a search for a proper XML editor, that
>> makes life easier and speaks XSD ... got suckered into a trial license of
>> oxygen for Eclipse ... and am loving it ...
>> Desperation takes over: is there no NICE XML editor that's licensed
>> compatibly with the Debian guidelines?
> 
> Why not try using Vim as XML Editor[0]? It works rather well for me and
> being the allrounder Vim is, you can expand it to suit your desires.
> 
> 
> Regards, Mathias
> 
> [0] http://www.pinkjuice.com/howto/vimxml/
> 



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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> 
> (1) MySQL is shown to be faster in a single-user environment than 
> Postgres, especially with complicated SELECT statements
> 
IIRC, this does not hold for transactional tables.  So, we are back to
the "if you don't care about your data" argument.

> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
> 
What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.

> If people were just praising and praising MySQL as the best database, 
> I'd be playing devil's advocate because honestly MySQL isn't a serious 
> database for serious database jobs.  It's a good database for rapid web 
> development, and for quickies--probably the BEST choice for those 

I don't about "BEST" but it is at least one of the available choices.

> things.  Yeah, it sucks that MySQL requires an application layer to any 
> system (i.e. you, as the programmer, must provide rules, enforce data 
> integrity, and up until recently even manage your own foreign keys).  

OK.  How in the world does this sort of garbage shorten the user's
learning curve.  You are contradicting yourself.

> But if OpenOffice.org works with MySQL, then I'm sure the OOo software 
> has taken care of it.
> 
> Let's not go around telling people "you shouldn't use MySQL" or "you 
> shouldn't use Postgres" just because it might not fit what we're doing 
> with OUR databases at any given time.
> 
Except that there are vanishingly few, if any, reasons to actually
prefer MySQL over anything else.

> With that said, I think anyone who is not the most technically inclined 
> and just getting into things should start out by trying MySQL
> because I think overall you can find a lot better information for it 
> online, and it you don't get bogged down with different schemas.  I 
> think anyone who only knows MySQL really needs to start getting into 
> Postgres if they ever intend on making a large database.
> 
Ever learn to play a musical instrument in a "newbie friendly" way?
Ever take lessons from a master after that?  They will spend more time
breaking you of your bad habits than teaching you the instrument.  The
same holds true for people who grow up on MySQL.  They simply do not
understand how to work with a real database.

I see this at work.  People "learn" on MySQL and then totally fall apart
when they try to work with Oracle.  This is because they don't
understand that Oracle, being a real database, behaves like a real
database and not like that toy MySQL.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
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http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:43:13PM +, s. keeling wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 
> >  as has already been said, natural sponges, having protien content,
> >  would surely have some reaction in a microwave. That said, we all know
> >  that 1) there's nothing natural about the aforementioned "sponge" and
> ...
> 
> Hey!  Is that some kinda homophobic crack?
> 
> 

wah-ka wah-ka wah-ka

A


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spcaview

[Bayrouni]

Hello all,

Is there any spcaview package for debian.
I made some searchs but nothing. (aptitude, google)

Thank you.


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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Johannes Graumann]

Greg Folkert wrote:

> On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 23:09 +0100, Johannes Graumann wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> Am crawling through the web on a search for a proper XML editor, that
>> makes life easier and speaks XSD ... got suckered into a trial license of
>> oxygen for Eclipse ... and am loving it ...
>> Desperation takes over: is there no NICE XML editor that's licensed
>> compatibly with the Debian guidelines?
> 
> conglomerate - user-friendly XML editor
> kxmleditor - XML Editor for KDE
> mlview - An xml editor for GNOME environment
> 
> Just to name a few.

These are to Oxygen what nano is to emacs ... childsplay.

Joh


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:31:23AM -0800, Tim Wescott wrote:
> I need a new laptop, and if possible I want to get one without paying 
> for Windows.
> 
A Macbook.  It even runs Etch, so you can setup a dual boot.  There is
an excellent HOWTO at wiki.debian.org.  I've had mine for 8 months and I
have never been happier with a computer that I owned.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[s. keeling]

Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>  as has already been said, natural sponges, having protien content,
>  would surely have some reaction in a microwave. That said, we all know
>  that 1) there's nothing natural about the aforementioned "sponge" and
...

Hey!  Is that some kinda homophobic crack?




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Re: EXT3-fs error, directory contains a hole

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 07:18:53PM -0300, Jos? Pablo Fern?ndez wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 20:20, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> > Its been years since I ran ext* but I don't think it can hurt to do
> > another fsck with the filesystem totally unmounted.  That means that if
> > this is the / filesystem, you need to use a rescue media not just the
> > boot-time fsck while its mounted ro.
> 
> Thank you for repling. So, I should do a 'forced' fsck. The problem with 
> doing 
> it with a media is that this is a raid by software.
> Is there any easy way to build the raid when running from a separate media?

The Etch installer in rescue mode.  Or whatever rescue system you have
for when your root filesystem is in trouble.

Doug.


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Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Andre Majorel]

On 2007-02-01 20:34 -, Pete Clarke wrote:

> I have a file server, running Etch, with the following specs:
> 
> P4, 1.7Ghz
> 512MB Ram
> 2 x SI based SATA I controllers
> 4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives
>
> It is set up with software RAID 5, and the overall performance
> is terrible.
> 
> bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/md0
> 
> /dev/md0:
> Timing cached reads: 2 MB in  4.71 seconds = 435.05 kB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads:8 MB in  3.13 seconds =   2.56 MB/sec

There was/is an issue with certain Maxtor SATA hard disk drives.
In some cases, it is necessary to force them to SATA-I mode (1.5
gb/s). There's a jumper in the back for that.

> 4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives

(Incidentally I would recommend against making a RAID array from
several drives from the same manufacturer. Especially if they're
the same model. Even more so if they're the same batch.)

-- 
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Discriminating spammers prefer bugs.debian.org.


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Re: EXT3-fs error, directory contains a hole

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 16:18, José Pablo Fernández wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 20:20, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
>> Its been years since I ran ext* but I don't think it can hurt to do
>> another fsck with the filesystem totally unmounted.  That means that if
>> this is the / filesystem, you need to use a rescue media not just the
>> boot-time fsck while its mounted ro.
> 
> Thank you for repling. So, I should do a 'forced' fsck. The problem with 
> doing 
> it with a media is that this is a raid by software.
> Is there any easy way to build the raid when running from a separate media?

Is this the / device?
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFwmyOS9HxQb37XmcRAuduAKCDeMJM+vIvbfS/oW/G1FAyPv8NuACePJEz
YHb2cFXtCtxi/0Jt63wloUA=
=sorH
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Mathias Brodala]

Hello Johannes.

Johannes Graumann, 01.02.2007 23:09:
> Am crawling through the web on a search for a proper XML editor, that makes
> life easier and speaks XSD ... got suckered into a trial license of oxygen
> for Eclipse ... and am loving it ...
> Desperation takes over: is there no NICE XML editor that's licensed
> compatibly with the Debian guidelines?

Why not try using Vim as XML Editor[0]? It works rather well for me and being
the allrounder Vim is, you can expand it to suit your desires.


Regards, Mathias

[0] http://www.pinkjuice.com/howto/vimxml/

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Re: light-weight rescue live CD?

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le jeudi 11 janvier 2007 05:13, Douglas Tutty a écrit :
> I'm running Etch amd64 and this is my first box without a floppy drive.
> On previous boxes I've used Woody's boot floppies and some extra
> utilities disks I've made to cobble together a text-mode rescue setup on
> a ram disk.
[...]

Pay extreme attention at this :

You cannot chroot to a 64bit arch from a 32bit one.
You need at least a 64bit kernel, I don't know if all userland have to bee 
64bits, perhaps chroot itself...

I liked RIP (Recovery Is Possible) but there isn't a 64 bit version...

You can still use the netinst CD, typing "rescue" at boot.


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Re: boot + lvm ?

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le mardi 16 janvier 2007 14:24, Stephane Durieux a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> I encounter a problem using lvm and lilo.
> On standart install, everythings works despite the boot partition is on a
> logical volum.
>
> But when I try to make a custom kernel and then run a lilo, I get the
> following message: device-mapper: table ioctl failed: No such device or
> address
> Fatal: device-mapper: dm_task_run(DM_DEVICE_TABLE) failed
[...]

LVM only installs used to work, with lilo as the bootloader, but since ~kernel 
2.6.17+udev, it does not anymore.
Read the full history here :
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=401393

I had the surprise one day, with my workstation, it could not boot after a 
kernel upgrade (I was following etch/testing).
I had to repartition an create a separate /boot.
I do that systematically since, 100Mo as the first partition. So that I can 
use grub again, which is less dangerous.


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Re: Etch on X86-64

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le lundi 29 janvier 2007 00:58, Ananda Samaddar a écrit :
> Hello there,
>
> my desktop computer recently bit the dust and I'm thinking of getting a
> Core 2 duo system.  What is the status of Debian on the X86-64 platform? 
> Is it usable?  I'd love to hear from people using this particular port and
> their experiences.  I've heard various things here and there e.g. Linux
> doesn't use both CPUs on the Core 2 duo.  Is this a load of nonsense?
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> Ananda

Works great here, some apps appart :
- No flash, but you can use a 32 chroot (great with schroot) for 32bit 
iceweasel+flash+java plugin
- amarok fails on song changes (libxine)

There IS two processors !

top - 01:14:27 up 1 day, 22:56,  1 user,  load average: 2.15, 1.66, 1.35
Tasks: 206 total,   1 running, 205 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu0  :  0.3%us,  0.0%sy, 99.7%ni,  0.0%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
Cpu1  :  0.7%us,  0.0%sy, 99.3%ni,  0.0%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%st
Mem:   1793024k total,  1783932k used, 9092k free,   150116k buffers
Swap:  1048568k total,14256k used,  1034312k free,   496388k cached


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Re: resize2fs on LVM2 on hardware RAID5

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le mardi 30 janvier 2007 22:21, Pim Bliek a écrit :
> Hi
>
> Since a couple of months I am running Etch on a new production server,
> with the following specs:
>
> - kernel 2.6.18-smp package
> - lvm 2.02.06-3
> - RAID5 on a 3Ware card (3w_9xxx)
>
> I want to grow my /var filesystem ONLINE. I can find tons of docs on
> offline resizing, but I am not in the position to go into single user
> and umount it. This is production.
>
> I took ext3 as the fs, since this is supposed to be able to resize
> online. So I went (/var is now 4 GB):
>
> # lvextend -L 6G /dev/vg00/var
> # resize2fs -p /dev/vg00/var
> resize2fs 1.40-WIP (14-Nov-2006)
> Filesystem at /dev/vg00/var is mounted on /var; on-line resizing required
> old desc_blocks = 1, new_desc_blocks = 1
> resize2fs: Kernel does not support online resizing
>
> I did fed this error to Google and it came up with nothing. Tried lots
> of other combinations in Google to find a solution but cannot find it.
>
> I prefer not to build a custom kernel, and use modules of the standard
> kernel-image package I am using instead (saves me a reboot) but if
> there is no alternative I might consider it if that solves my problem
> for the future resizes I might need.
>
> In future I will probably not be shrinking, only growing LV's and fs's.
>
> So... what is the trick to make this work? I cannot find it.
>
> Thanks in advance for any pointers, tricks and/or help!
> Pim

It works here.
Anyway try the other command : ext2online


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Re: XML editor wanted!

[Greg Folkert]

On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 23:09 +0100, Johannes Graumann wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Am crawling through the web on a search for a proper XML editor, that makes
> life easier and speaks XSD ... got suckered into a trial license of oxygen
> for Eclipse ... and am loving it ...
> Desperation takes over: is there no NICE XML editor that's licensed
> compatibly with the Debian guidelines?

conglomerate - user-friendly XML editor
kxmleditor - XML Editor for KDE
mlview - An xml editor for GNOME environment

Just to name a few. 
-- 
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Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: EXT3-fs error, directory contains a hole

[José Pablo Fernández]

Hello,

On Wednesday 31 January 2007 20:20, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> Its been years since I ran ext* but I don't think it can hurt to do
> another fsck with the filesystem totally unmounted.  That means that if
> this is the / filesystem, you need to use a rescue media not just the
> boot-time fsck while its mounted ro.

Thank you for repling. So, I should do a 'forced' fsck. The problem with doing 
it with a media is that this is a raid by software.
Is there any easy way to build the raid when running from a separate media?

-- 
José Pablo Fernández
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Pete Clarke]

> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:34:20PM -, Pete Clarke wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I have a file server, running Etch, with the following specs:
>>
>> P4, 1.7Ghz
>> 512MB Ram
>> 2 x SI based SATA I controllers
>> 4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives
>>
>> It is set up with software RAID 5, and the overall performance is
>> terrible.
>>
>> Every time it reboots (which happens due to dodgy power!), it does a
>> RAID
>> resync, this takes up 90% CPU time (for md0_resync process) for 50
>> hours!!
>> During this time, ANY access to the drive is painful.
>>
>> Now, I expected software RAID 5 to be slow, but not this bad - this is
>> the
>> reading from hdparm:
>>
>> bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/md0
>>
>> /dev/md0:
>> Timing cached reads: 2 MB in  4.71 seconds = 435.05 kB/sec
>> Timing buffered disk reads:8 MB in  3.13 seconds =   2.56 MB/sec
>>
>>
>> Bad eh?
>>
>> Becuase they're SATA drives, hdparm cannot tune them - or indeed read
>> their
>> current settings. Is there any way I can speed this beast up, if not I
>> am
>> going to go back to my old PPro200-based file server, running SCSI->FCAL
>> bridge.
>>
>
> Wow, that is awful.
>
> I dont' do raid5 since I only have two disks.
>
> Two identical Seagate Barracuda 7200 80 GB SATA drives (with the SATA I
> rate limiting jumper removed), on my Asus MB nVidia chipset SATA-II
> ports.  Each drive has three partitions, to for raid1, one for LVM.
>
> hdparm -tT /dev/md0
>
> /dev/md0
> Timing cached reads:2424 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1212.23 MB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads:   62 MB in 0.84 seconds = 73.44 MB/sec.
>
> What happens if you time the raw drives instead of md0?  For me on raid1,
> its basically the same.  I'm wondering if one or more of your drives are
> in difficulty and its slowing down the whole array.
>
> What does smartmontools say about the drive's S.M.A.R.T.s?
>

I get:

bungo:~# smartctl --all /dev/sda
smartctl version 5.36 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-6 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

Device: ATA  ST3250620AS  Version: 3.AA
Serial number: 9QE0MLDS
Device type: disk
Local Time is: Thu Feb  1 22:14:32 2007 GMT
Device does not support SMART

Error Counter logging not supported

[GLTSD (Global Logging Target Save Disable) set. Enable Save with '-S on']
Device does not support Self Test logging


As for individual drive performance :

bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
 Timing cached reads:   322 MB in  2.00 seconds = 160.99 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:  106 MB in  3.00 seconds =  35.29 MB/sec
bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:
 Timing cached reads:   348 MB in  2.01 seconds = 173.30 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:4 MB in  4.62 seconds = 886.44 kB/sec
bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sdc

/dev/sdc:
 Timing cached reads:   320 MB in  2.00 seconds = 159.67 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:   36 MB in  5.39 seconds =   6.67 MB/sec
bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sdd

/dev/sdd:
 Timing cached reads:   342 MB in  2.01 seconds = 170.41 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:4 MB in  4.29 seconds = 954.93 kB/sec

Rather poo ...

I *must* be doing something wrong .. I can't believe SATA performance is
*THIS BAD*...

Cheers,




Pete.


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:37:15PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Kevin Mark writes:
> > So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with
> > issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check
> > the HW?
> 
> Dell could supply a test CD loaded with their custom test software.

Again its ironic. I find that linux can spot bad hardware much easier
than winblows. If there is kernel support for something and it doesn't
work then I *know* it doesn't work. If windows, maybe I need a
different/new driver maybe its something else, who knows? 

A


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:04:05PM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:18:05AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:12:20PM -0500, Rick Reynolds wrote:
> > >  It's probably worth getting a 
> > > larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a dual 
> > > boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're having are 
> > > not hardware related.  But if you're more hardware savvy than I am, that 
> > > might not be an issue for you (this is my first laptop I've ever owned).
> > 
> > how ironic is it that you have to keep around a notoriously unreliable
> > operating system to prove to the manufacturer that their hardware is
> > failing...
> > 
> > A
> That seems to be a bigger issue than get a pseudo-ms-less desktop like
> Dell now offers. You can get it with a freedos floppy but you have to
> buy a box of Suse which Dell will not install or support. So how exactly
> will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with issues if you dont
> have a supported OS that they say you need to check the HW? And of
> course that any free OS system will just cost more. So it is less than
> useless to have an OS-free machine, if in order to get support from Dell
> or other folks, you need Winblows for them to address and fix your
> computer woes. You will always need winbows to get official support and
> to install bios updates and other things.
> It seems with a free os you can never recieve support from an ISP, hw
>  manufacture, laptop maker, etc. Unless you find someone like system76,
>  pogolinux, etc. And that is not much in the way of consumer choice.

more and more I think I should be building and selling
debian-installed computers...

A


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:37:15PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> Kevin Mark writes:
> > So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with
> > issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check
> > the HW?
> 
> Dell could supply a test CD loaded with their custom test software.
> -- 
I and every other FLOSS person would put up a bounty to make such a disk
if they would tell us what the specs were. Kind of like what greg k-h is
saying about writing linux drivers for any HW.

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XML editor wanted!

[Johannes Graumann]

Hi there,

Am crawling through the web on a search for a proper XML editor, that makes
life easier and speaks XSD ... got suckered into a trial license of oxygen
for Eclipse ... and am loving it ...
Desperation takes over: is there no NICE XML editor that's licensed
compatibly with the Debian guidelines?

Please advise!

Joh


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Re: Pathetic SATA performance

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 08:34:20PM -, Pete Clarke wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I have a file server, running Etch, with the following specs:
> 
> P4, 1.7Ghz
> 512MB Ram
> 2 x SI based SATA I controllers
> 4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives
> 
> It is set up with software RAID 5, and the overall performance is terrible.
> 
> Every time it reboots (which happens due to dodgy power!), it does a RAID 
> resync, this takes up 90% CPU time (for md0_resync process) for 50 hours!!
> During this time, ANY access to the drive is painful.
> 
> Now, I expected software RAID 5 to be slow, but not this bad - this is the 
> reading from hdparm:
> 
> bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/md0
> 
> /dev/md0:
> Timing cached reads: 2 MB in  4.71 seconds = 435.05 kB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads:8 MB in  3.13 seconds =   2.56 MB/sec
> 
> 
> Bad eh?
> 
> Becuase they're SATA drives, hdparm cannot tune them - or indeed read their 
> current settings. Is there any way I can speed this beast up, if not I am 
> going to go back to my old PPro200-based file server, running SCSI->FCAL 
> bridge.
> 

Wow, that is awful.

I dont' do raid5 since I only have two disks.  

Two identical Seagate Barracuda 7200 80 GB SATA drives (with the SATA I
rate limiting jumper removed), on my Asus MB nVidia chipset SATA-II
ports.  Each drive has three partitions, to for raid1, one for LVM.

hdparm -tT /dev/md0

/dev/md0
Timing cached reads:2424 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1212.23 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 62 MB in 0.84 seconds = 73.44 MB/sec.

What happens if you time the raw drives instead of md0?  For me on raid1,
its basically the same.  I'm wondering if one or more of your drives are
in difficulty and its slowing down the whole array.

What does smartmontools say about the drive's S.M.A.R.T.s?

Doug.


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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 12:16, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
  

I've been debating whether or not to make a comment on this discussion,
but it finally got to me.  I think you're being way too hard on MySQL
considering the fact that this question originated from the idea of
using a database backend for OpenOffice.org.  Yeah, I didn't like "MySQL
is definitely your best choice" kind of answer with no clear indication
as to why MySQL is a better choice in this case, so I'll give a couple
of reasons:

(1) MySQL is shown to be faster in a single-user environment than
Postgres, especially with complicated SELECT statements

(2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users



I think MSFT used to use those same arguments about why people
should use Windows
  


The fundamental difference is licensing.  If Windows was open source, I 
certainly wouldn't bother disagreeing with them if they specified which 
users would benefit more from Windows.  And on that issue MySQL wins 
because you can have it under the GPL.  Postgres is under BSD. (I guess 
that's arguable, but we are on a Debian list after all.)




think anyone who only knows MySQL really needs to start getting into
Postgres if they ever intend on making a large database.



Bad habits ingrained now are bad habits that you carry with you for
a long time.  Start with good habits now and you're better for it
always.

The PostgreSQL Novice list welcomes questions like those from OP.
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/


I don't know... I have so many mixed feelings about this.  Yeah, it's 
nice if we could educate everyone through the design of the software, 
but at some point that's just a barrier to entry for too many people.  
And just using Postgres really doesn't take care of all of the problems 
anyway:  you can still push foreign key management to the application.  
Who is going to teach you to use foreign keys?


(By the way, you actually get different transactional results based on 
what kind of storage you tell MySQL to use.  InnoDB is better but slower 
than MyISAM.  Gee, I wonder if there could be a tradeoff there.)


MySQL got the upper hand for having "better" priorities early on, and 
now they're enjoying their popularity.  It didn't really matter that 
Firewire was better than USB:  USB was a little bit cheaper, got bigger 
market share, and because of that was later able to improve.  (By the 
way, watch now Nintendo takes over Sony's marketshare now. ;)


Not to get too offtopic, maybe if Postgres had been more reliable prior 
to version 7 it would have taken over.  I don't really think anyone 
cared about how fast MySQL was on large-but-simple databases--although 
it certainly helped.  But what people did care about is that a) it was 
free (as in beer), and b) that it worked.


I don't want to come off as an authority on the subject, because I don't 
consider myself an expert on DBMS, just a casual user.  They've just 
been interesting to me for the past 10 years, and I do currently use 
both MySQL and Postgres.


Angelo


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[John Hasler]

Kevin Mark writes:
> So how exactly will Dell (or any ISP for that matter) help you with
> issues if you dont have a supported OS that they say you need to check
> the HW?

Dell could supply a test CD loaded with their custom test software.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: OT: sponge burning!

[Greg Folkert]

On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 14:09 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02/01/07 08:35, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> > On Thursday 01 February 2007 00:43, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> On 01/31/07 23:27, David E. Fox wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:22:21 +0200
> >>>
> >>> Andrei Popescu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  I thought Dexter's Laboratory would be more popular with members
>  of this list. From the recent stuff it's my favorite.
> >>> Naaa... South Park :)
> >> /South Park/ and /Family Guy/ are funny in small doses.  Mostly,
> >> they are just boorish.
> >>
> >> /Futurama/ is *the* modern animated show.
> > 
> > If you're talking modern, my vote is for Gargoyles.
> 
> Bite my shiny metal ass!

My favorite:

Yeah... well, I'm gonna go build my own theme park! With
blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the park!

:)
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Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup


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Re: best log checker

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 07:15:32PM +, s. keeling wrote:
> Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >  On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 02:55:12AM +, s. keeling wrote:
> > > Douglas Allan Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > 
> >  Why doesn't someone make a companion interactive rule maker?  Run it in
> 
>i)  This is free software.  Go right ahead.  :-)  Some of the
>neatest stuff came into being because someone felt an itch they
>couldn't scratch.  It's probably a very difficult problem to
>solve, though.
> 
>   ii)  Unix-ish OSs have a steep learning curve.  The curve pays off
>with extraordinary power.
> 
> Regular expressions aren't difficult to master.  The biggest problem
> I've found with them is subsets of them.  Shell RE's, perl RE's, awk,
> ...  Some work in all of them, some work in only one of them, some
> work differently in each.  It can be confusing, but it's really not
> that hard.
> 

However, 

Even on my 486, my brute-force log checker completes in under a minute.
It may be worth it if RE would save an hour or so.

I still have trouble with conditional stuff (like if) in bash.  I use
bash scripting like dos .bat files.  If (so to speak) I need
conditionals, I switch to python.  I don't like languages where having
two spaces instead of one (or none if beside a bracket) creates an
error.  Having a whole line consist of mostly punctuation (like your RE
example) makes me think my printer is on the fritz.

Doug.


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Re: Will Debian include Ubuntu changes?

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:34:19PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> In particular, I'm interested in finding out if Debian has any intention 
> of including some of the wireless drivers that Ubuntu has gotten into 
> their kernel.  Does anyone know anything about this, or who I should 
> contact?
> 
> In particular, I'm interested in Debian including the 818x driver for 
> realtek chips.  It's sort of a wishlist item, and the code is already 
> there in Ubuntu.  But it's also a hardware support request, and I can 
> only imagine what things would be like if there were a bug submitted on 
> every piece of hardware that people wanted to get working.
> 

Ask on debian-boot.

I don't do Ubuntu.  I _think_ that the reason that some find newer
hardware supported is that they use a newer kernel.  Newer than what, I
don't know.  When bleeding-edge hardware gest support in the kernel
upstream, it takes some time to get through unstable (Sid) into testing
(currently Etch).  But at least when it does, it has been tested to some
extent and doesn't break other stuff.

So first see if Etch solves it for you.  

Doug.


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Re: Debian/NT Dual Boot?

[Owen Heisler]

On 1/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 10:54:56PM +, John K Masters wrote:
> It can be done but it is very, very convoluted. Windows always
> likes to overwrite the MBR which means you will lose GRUB or LILO.

Not necessarily.  You can tell LILO to put its MBR on a floppy disk.
(technically then its only a BR).  Test if by booting from the floppy,
and then keep it away fropm the disk drive while you are installing
Windows.  Even if you lose the MBR on the hard disk, you can boot from
the floppy.  Some people use the floppy as their way of telling the
machine to boot Linux instad of Windows.


I just make sure I change the drive boot order in the BIOS to the one
I want Windows on listed first.  Then Windows writes on the MBR there
instead of the drive I will actually be booting off of using grub.


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Re: [SOLVED] Re: Partitioning And Formatting A Large Disk (2086.09GB)

[Douglas Allan Tutty]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:06:54PM -0500, Michael S. Peek wrote:
> So the consensus seems to be that LVM is the way to go.
> 
> So what's the cutoff between building arrays of varying size versus 
> grouping them under LVM?
> 
> I.e. Right now I've got two large arrays.  Should I maybe break that 
> down unto just a bunch of disks and then use LVM to group them together 
> (not use hardware RAID at all), or should I break the disks into each 
> bundles of three and make as many small raid5 arrays as I can and then 
> group them under LVM?
> 
> What's the general consensus on actually using LVM with hardware RAIDs?

Separate the two concepts:
raid protects you from drive failure

LVM allows you to move partitions from one block device (drive,
raid array, whatever) to another and to resize those partitions.

So do both.

If you're using hardware raid and one disk starts failing, I would think
that you would want one port free on your hardware controller where you
can add a new disk (or leave a hot spare) to allow swapping out a
failing (but not totally failed) drive without degrading the array by
pulling the failing drive first.

Since I've never had a hardware raid card, I could be wrong on this.

If I recall correctly, the drive-space efficiency goes up the more
drives you have in a raid5 array.  If you broke it up into 3-drive
arrays, you'd only have 66% efficiency vs whatever you have now.

I'm assuming that your two large arrays aren't one huge array because of
using two hardware raid controllers.

Personally, I'd use both arrays as PVs for LVM.  Then the LVs can be
made stripe for better performance (since raid protects you from drive
failures).  

FYI, remember that /boot can't be on lvm.  I have mine on a raid1.

I have no idea how to set this up after install if you're wanting / on
LVM.  I did mine during Etch install.

Since you're going to all this trouble, choose a good FS like XFS or
JFS.

Enjoy your terror-bites of storage :-)

Doug.


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Kismet and Hermes wireless card

[anthony]

Hello I'm using Debian Etch and just switched wireless card to an orinoco
hermes I chipset - the card is using 8.7 firmware

I'm using kismet with the card and I get this error:

Server options:  none
Client options:  none
Starting server...
Waiting for server to start before starting UI...
Suid priv-dropping disabled.  This may not be secure.
No specific sources given to be enabled, all will be enabled.
Enabling channel hopping.
Enabling channel splitting.
Source 0 (orinocosource): Enabling monitor mode for orinoco source interface
eth2 channel 6...
FATAL: Could not find 'monitor' private ioctl or use the newer style 'mode
monitor' command.  This typically means that the drivers have not been
patched or the correct drivers are being loaded. See the troubleshooting
section of the README for more information.

This is the source part of my /etc/kismet/kismet.conf file

source=orinoco,eth2,orinocosource

I've read around and there are some suggestions to change the firmware of
the card. Do I need to do this or does anybody know an easier fix?

A

Re: apt-listbugs behavior (was libpangocairo and gimp...)

[tom arnall]

On Saturday 27 January 2007 03:15, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 12:12:44PM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > use aptitude interactively and ':' will hold a package at its current
> > level. Also, '?' within apt-listbugs allows you to pin the packages,
> > but I've not tried it to determine the results.
>
> That is a bit confusing because '?' is normally(?) the help key.
>
> As to putting a package on hold:
>   'echo pkgname hold | dpkg --set-selections'
>
> --
> Chris.
> ==
> " ... The official version cannot be abandoned because the implication of
> rejecting it is far too disturbing: that we are subject to a government
> conspiracy of `X-Files' proportions and insidiousness."
> Letter to the LA Times Magazine, September 18, 2005.


That 9/11 was a result of the manipulation of Islamist crazies by American 
spooks is a view which I believe can be held by reasonable men. Note that I 
don't say that the view is necessarily accurate, but merely that it is a 
reasonable view.


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Re: Avidemux and monitor energy saver

[Benjamí Villoslada]

El Dijous 01 Febrer 2007 18:50, Wu-Kung Sun va escriure:
> > Right click on the desktop choose Configure Desktop then Display option
> > next Power Control tab then I usually change the Standby setting up one
> > click then back down and click on the Apply button.
>
> Or from a console:
> xset s on (for screensaver)
> xset +dpms (for power save)

Thanks for yours responses! The monitor saves again :)  --and maybe avidemux 
have one bug :?


-- 
Benjamí
http://blog.bitassa.cat



.

Re: Fonts problem on Debian Etch

[David Shultz]

On 2/1/07, John Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Please check to see if you have the package fontconfig-config installed.

If so, then do this as root:

   dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config


I did exactly what you've instructed but no improvement.

Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Rick Reynolds]

Curt Howland wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 01 February 2007 13:52, Rick Reynolds 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say:

It's probably worth getting a
larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a
dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're
having are not hardware related.


I have a Sony Vaio (don't get one, the hardware is unique and 
substantially under-supported) PCG-GRT170 laptop, and for the support 
issue (extended Circuit City warrantee, used 5 or 6 times for DVD 
drive failures) I restored WinXP to the original 5400rpm HD after I 
bought myself a 7200rpm HD with better seek times, transfer rates 
&etc, and put Unstable on that.


Now if I want that last little bit of hardware debugging: "Does it 
fail in Windows too?", I just swap HDs which isn't traumatic. It also 
keeps them from erasing my Linux install and putting XP back on it 
which they did once before I figured this trick out.


Oooh, yeah!  I thought of this idea also, I just never got around to 
implementing it.  That's probably the smartest way to go, given the 
situation in which we find ourselves regarding hardware support...


Thanks,
Rick Reynolds
--
 "Never work for a sawmill that's so behind that they don't have time 
to sharpen the blades." -- Will Hayes, Software Engineering Institute



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Pathetic SATA performance

[Pete Clarke]

Hi there,

I have a file server, running Etch, with the following specs:

P4, 1.7Ghz
512MB Ram
2 x SI based SATA I controllers
4 x Maxtor 250GB SATA drives

It is set up with software RAID 5, and the overall performance is terrible.

Every time it reboots (which happens due to dodgy power!), it does a RAID 
resync, this takes up 90% CPU time (for md0_resync process) for 50 hours!!

During this time, ANY access to the drive is painful.

Now, I expected software RAID 5 to be slow, but not this bad - this is the 
reading from hdparm:


bungo:~# hdparm -tT /dev/md0

/dev/md0:
Timing cached reads: 2 MB in  4.71 seconds = 435.05 kB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads:8 MB in  3.13 seconds =   2.56 MB/sec


Bad eh?

Becuase they're SATA drives, hdparm cannot tune them - or indeed read their 
current settings. Is there any way I can speed this beast up, if not I am 
going to go back to my old PPro200-based file server, running SCSI->FCAL 
bridge.


Cheers,




Pete. 



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Re: Mount or mount-aes

[Thomas Weinbrenner]

David Baron wrote:
> The latest and greatest ddclient on Sid wants initscripts which wants mount.
> mount conflicts with mount-aes which replaces mount.

> So this upgrade would replace the mount-aes currently installed with mount.

> The dialog talks about removing mount-aes is something that should not be 
> done 
> (but mount provides the same tools).

> Which one should be kept?

What is mount-aes and where did you get it? There is no Debian package
with this name.

If it is a mount for loop-AES, then you should use the loop-aes-utils
package, which doesn't conflict with mount.

-- 
Thomas Weinbrenner


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Re: Laptop Recommendations?

[Curt Howland]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 01 February 2007 13:52, Rick Reynolds 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> It's probably worth getting a
> larger hard drive and keeping a Dell-supported OS on there as a
> dual boot option just so you can verify that any problems you're
> having are not hardware related.

I have a Sony Vaio (don't get one, the hardware is unique and 
substantially under-supported) PCG-GRT170 laptop, and for the support 
issue (extended Circuit City warrantee, used 5 or 6 times for DVD 
drive failures) I restored WinXP to the original 5400rpm HD after I 
bought myself a 7200rpm HD with better seek times, transfer rates 
&etc, and put Unstable on that.

Now if I want that last little bit of hardware debugging: "Does it 
fail in Windows too?", I just swap HDs which isn't traumatic. It also 
keeps them from erasing my Linux install and putting XP back on it 
which they did once before I figured this trick out.

And I run only Linux on the system the rest of the time. Ok, once ever 
couple of years I put the other HD in and play _Age of Empires_ for a 
day or two until I cannot stand XP anymore.

It was a _very_ well spent ~$100 at NewEgg, recommended to anyone who 
has the money to do it. Oh, get a bigger HD than came with the laptop 
originally, I mean, why not? The OEM HD is virtually certain to be 
5400rpm even on top of the line laptops. I've had no heat problems, 
even when transcoding video and authoring DVDs.

Curt-

- -- 
September 11th, 2001
The proudest day for gun control and central 
planning advocates in American history

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Re: Mount or mount-aes

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 07:55:05PM +0200, David Baron wrote:
> The latest and greatest ddclient on Sid wants initscripts which wants mount.
> mount conflicts with mount-aes which replaces mount.
> 
> So this upgrade would replace the mount-aes currently installed with mount.
> 
> The dialog talks about removing mount-aes is something that should not be 
> done 
> (but mount provides the same tools).
> 
> Which one should be kept?
It sounds like the maintainer is not doing a good job explaining what
the issue is. So, I'd file a bug report asking why the info is not very
clear. 

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