aptitude purge flashplugin-nonfree hang

[Paul Csanyi]

Hello!

My System is Debian GNU/Linux Etch and Half.

I have installed flashplugin-nonfree and it works well with iceweasel
so far.

Then I edit /apt/sources.list
--->
deb http://www.backports.org/debian etch-backports main contrib non-free
---<

and setup apt to can use deb packages from Debian Backports.

I edit the /apt/preferences file:
--->
Package: *
Pin: release a=etch-backports
Pin-Priority: 200
--<

Then I made an upgrade and I think then was upgraded
flashplugin-nonfree too.  

Now I have flashplugin-nonfree version 1:1.4~bpo40+1.

The iceweasel crash  when I try to open a webpage:
http://www.hobbielektronika.hu/cikkek/nullarol_a_robotokig_-_pic_mikrovezerlok_i_resz.html?pg=1&Submit=%3E%3E

That was yesterday. Today iceweasel can't open at all this web page.

I can't to purge nor remove flashplugin-nonfree with aptitude.

Aptitude hangs at this task.

What can I do to solve this problem?

Any advices will be appreciated!

-- 
Regards, Paul Csanyi
http://www.freewebs.com/csanyi-pal/index.htm


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pppoe redial when disconnected

[LÉVAI Dániel]

Hi!

I've set up a pppoe connection to my ISP with pppoeconf(8), and now I 
can connect to it using `pon `. Is there a daemon or something which listens when the ppp0 
device goes down, and redial if needed?

My config file:
# cat /etc/ppp/peers/digi
# Minimalistic default options file for DSL/PPPoE connections

noipdefault
defaultroute
replacedefaultroute
hide-password
#lcp-echo-interval 30
#lcp-echo-failure 4
noauth
persist
#mtu 1492
#persist
#maxfail 0
#holdoff 20
plugin rp-pppoe.so eth1
user "myuser"
usepeerdns
###

Thanks!

Daniel

-- 
LEVAI Daniel
PGP key ID = 0x4AC0A4B1
Key fingerprint = D037 03B9 C12D D338 4412  2D83 1373 917A 4AC0 A4B1


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Re: debian sid & gnome

[Reeyarn]

2008/6/14 Florian Kulzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> [ Please try to turn off the HTML part of your messages. ]
>
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 14:18:40 +0800, Reeyarn wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've come accoss a similar problem, that my apt-get or aptitude wanted to
> > remove my gnome, gtk, etc. Almost ervery core module of gnome i think.(see
> > attached for the result of apt-get autoremove -s)
>
> [...]
>
> I think you are missing one or more of the following metapackages:
>
> gnome | The GNOME Desktop Environment, with extra 
> components
> gnome-core| The GNOME Desktop Environment -- essential 
> components
> gnome-core-devel  | The GNOME Desktop Environment -- development 
> components
> gnome-desktop-environment | The GNOME Desktop Environment
> gnome-devel   | The GNOME Desktop Environment -- development tools
> gnome-fifth-toe   | The GNOME Fifth Toe applications
> gnome-office  | The GNOME Office suite
> gnome-themes-extras   | various themes for the GNOME 2 desktop
>
> The metapackages themselves are "empty", but they protect other packages
> from autoremoval by depending on them.
>
> --
> Regards,| http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
> Florian   |

Hi Kulzer,

I've got the problem. Thank you for that.

My gnome-desktop-environment is not installed, because it depends on
gnome-system-tools,
gnome-system-tools: depends: liboobs-1-3 (>= 2.19.91)
but 'libooobs-1-3' is unavailable in 'sid' right now.

Just wonder why I could still use gnome...amazine :)

Regards,

Reeyarn


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Re: Debian on laptop

[Bernd Kloss]

Am Samstag, 14. Juni 2008 19:03 schrieb Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso:
> On 14/06/2008, Marloque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would look into the Ubuntu laptops from Dell. If they run Ubuntu,
> > there's a chance they'll run Debian, since Ubuntu is based off of Debian.
>
> I wrote a review of a Dell Ubuntu Laptop here:
>
  http://everything2.com/title/Dell+Ubuntu+Laptop
>
> HTH,
> - Jordi G. H.

Hi, Jordi

 I am using a Dell Latitude D 520 with Debian/Etch and read your report with 
interest.
I hope you don't mind a few questions.

You wrote:

While thinking about monitors, I spied another multimedia key on my keyboard. 
It says "CRT/LCD". I presumed it would redirect output to an external CRT 
monitor from my LCD one, so I tried it out. I plugged in an external monitor. 
Nothing happened. I pushed that multimedia key. My LCD's resolution flipped 
around a little, and adjusted itself to a resolution that would display on 
the external monitor. The external monitor now was displaying the exact same 
contents of my LCD monitor, albeit at a lower resolution. I unplugged it, hit 
CRT/LCD again, and everything was back to the way it was.

Hah. So it works. This will be useful for when I take Iris for presentations 
or for showing off stuff to my students that could complement my lessons.

* Easy external monitor plugin support — check
*

Did you leave this monitor - beamer (I suppose, your external monitor was a 
beamer for lectures) the way described above?

I was not satisfied, because I like to see the audience while talking and not 
the writing on the wall behind me. So I had to adapt the xorg.conf of the 
xserver. This now ist working fine, I get a clone of the LFP over beamer. But 
I have problems playing video-DVDs and other formats like flv-files 
downloaded from youtube (for instance Dr. Quantum). The beamer shows the icon 
bar of kaffeine, but not the movie whereas on LFP I can see it. 

Did you have the same problems and if so, how did you solve them?

Greetings

Bernd 


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/15 Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Does Google even index gopher sites?
>

Yes, via the HTTP to Gopher proxy at http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/
e.g. A search at google.com on "gopher sdf happy" resulted in the 8th
hit being a gopher site.

but if you want to search gopherspace you are better off using
veronica @ gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/v2


-- 
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact.
Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
"Emperor of Rome Marcus Aurelius"


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06/14/08 21:41, John Hasler wrote:
> I wrote:
>> The very fact that almost no one uses it can be an advantage.
> 
> Ron Johnson writes:
>> That's superficial logic.  Practically, the fewer who use gopher, the
>> fewer who create gopher "pages", thus the narrower the range of gopher's
>> usefulness.
> 
> *Sigh".  _For some purposes_ the fact that almost no one uses it can be an
>  advantage.  A particular group of people may not care that few others
>  create pages.

OK, yes, for some purposes, where "some" is an extraordinarily broad
and ambiguous term which could mean anything.

Teenagers, terrorists and retro-computer (especially early-90s)
fanatics are the first groups that crossed my mind as to who could
profit from a faded-to-insignificance protocol.

Does Google even index gopher sites?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas.  In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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=dlpj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06/14/08 22:01, Mumia W.. wrote:
> On 06/14/2008 08:32 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On 06/14/08 19:28, John Hasler wrote:
>>> Koh Choon Lin writes:
 Just curious, what advantage does Gopher offers over other protocols?
>>> The very fact that almost no one uses it can be an advantage.
>>
>> That's superficial logic.  Practically, the fewer who use gopher,
>> the fewer who create gopher "pages", thus the narrower the range of
>> gopher's usefulness.
>>
> 
> Ah yes, but with so few people using Gopher, very few computer criminals
> will write trojans against Gopher clients.
> 
> And as Paul Cartwright said, employers who want to block the web may
> ignore Gopher.

[sarcasm]Because gopher's not "the web"?[/sarcasm]

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas.  In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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cNZ7n7AhORaEmjY5W2fuBzI=
=yrZ0
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Which IM, blog and email service are best for debian users?

[Ignacio Mondino]

Star Liu wrote:
> Hi Everyone, I'm sorry to ask this silly question here. I'm now using the
> microsoft live messenger, live spaces and hotmail as my IM, blog and email
> service provider, because i'm a windows user for a so long time. Two weeks
> before, I installed debian etch and lenny, and i like it very much. I'd
> like to get your opinions about which IM, blog and email services which
> suits debian best. Thanks! 
> _ News,
> entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! 
> http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
> 
> 

I think you are talking about an integrated environment, in that case you
should try gtalk (jabber-xmmp) blogspot and gmail (from Google)

All in a web interface or from the program of your choice, in my case
pidgin, firefox and thunderbird.

But you always can use those programs with msn, live spaces and hotmail...
Nah, be free, the change wort it  :-D


-- 
---
http://stupidityandmalice.blogspot.com/ Ignacio Mondino
Don't Panic 







signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Mumia W..]

On 06/14/2008 08:32 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06/14/08 19:28, John Hasler wrote:

Koh Choon Lin writes:

Just curious, what advantage does Gopher offers over other protocols?

The very fact that almost no one uses it can be an advantage.


That's superficial logic.  Practically, the fewer who use gopher,
the fewer who create gopher "pages", thus the narrower the range of
gopher's usefulness.



Ah yes, but with so few people using Gopher, very few computer criminals 
will write trojans against Gopher clients.


And as Paul Cartwright said, employers who want to block the web may 
ignore Gopher.



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Re: Which IM, blog and email service are best for debian users?

[Lee Glidewell]

On Saturday 14 June 2008 06:32:59 pm Star Liu wrote:
> Hi Everyone, I'm sorry to ask this silly question here. I'm now using the
> microsoft live messenger, live spaces and hotmail as my IM, blog and email
> service provider, because i'm a windows user for a so long time. Two weeks
> before, I installed debian etch and lenny, and i like it very much. I'd
> like to get your opinions about which IM, blog and email services which
> suits debian best. Thanks!

There's no reason you can't use those services with Debian. Hotmail webmail 
is, of course, OS-independent; Kopete and Pidgin have limited support for MSN 
Messenger (as well as all the other popular IM protocols), and Emesene has 
more full-featured support; I'm not sure about Live Spaces, as this is the 
first I've heard of it, but if it's web-based and doesn't require ActiveX, it 
will work fine with any OS. 

If you're looking for things that are ideologically compatible with Debian's 
mission statement, then Jabber would be your IM protocol (jabber.org and 
GoogleTalk being the major providers here), Wordpress would be your blogging 
engine, and any POP3/IMAP mail provider would work. 

Lee


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Compiling fails: file missing but it's there

[Sladi]

Hi,

I try to compile xf4vnc on Lenny AMD64 following this page: 
http://xf4vnc.sourceforge.net/modular.html
Only compiling the xserver fails. It complains about missing pixmap.h 
file. The file is installed via aptitude 
("/usr/include/pixman-1/pixman.h") and when trying "make install" it 
seems to look in the right directory because "-I/usr/include/pixman-1" 
is visible.

Can someone help me please?

Best regards,
Sladan


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Installing additional truetype fonts in Lenny fails partially (Iceweasel problem)

[Sladi]

Hi,

I try to install some additional truetype fonts in Lenny AMD64. 
Everything seems fine but specifying antialiasing rules in 
/etc/fonts/local.conf for those fonts won't work.
I copied some Windows fonts to a newly created folder 
/usr/share/fonts/truetype/windows/ (Tahoma and Lucida Console). Then I 
added to /etc/fonts/local.conf: (I also tried ~/.fonts/ and ~/.fonts.config)

--

   
   tahoma
   
   
   8
   
   
   16
   
   
   false
   

--
I tested a simple webpage in Iceweasel and this rule gets applied to all 
fonts in Iceweasel. When I use "arial" instead of "tahoma" for example 
it works as intended. As soon as I use Tahoma to specify the font it 
won't work.
What do I have to do in order to install Tahoma properly so I can use 
the above rule please? I tried all the Debian font install how-to's I 
found already.



Regards,
Sladan


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[John Hasler]

I wrote:
> The very fact that almost no one uses it can be an advantage.

Ron Johnson writes:
> That's superficial logic.  Practically, the fewer who use gopher, the
> fewer who create gopher "pages", thus the narrower the range of gopher's
> usefulness.

*Sigh".  _For some purposes_ the fact that almost no one uses it can be an
 advantage.  A particular group of people may not care that few others
 create pages.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> If data=journal is subject to kernel bugs then you are saying that Linux
> doensn't have any filesystem suitable for non-UPS-protected systems.  If

Neither will be safe against that, unless you have write caching disabled OR
write barriers enabled, and working right on the HBA (host/port controller)
and disc/storage.

It IS possible that data=journal should be safer in theory for certain
operations, but I don't know enough about ext3 behaviour to answer that one.

> the devs don't properly audit the data=journal code then they shouldn't
> provide it as an option in a production kernel.

It is as audited as the data=ordered code.  It is less *used*.  If you think
this is even worse, you're right.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Which IM, blog and email service are best for debian users?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06/14/08 20:32, Star Liu wrote:
> Hi Everyone, I'm sorry to ask this silly question here. I'm now
> using the microsoft live messenger, live spaces and hotmail as my
> IM, blog and email service provider, because i'm a windows user
> for a so long time. Two weeks before, I installed debian etch and
> lenny, and i like it very much. I'd like to get your opinions
> about which IM, blog and email services which suits debian best.
> Thanks!

GNOME or KDE?  (I doubt you're using one of the other GUI interfaces.)

Do these apps function properly under Linux & Iceweasel/Firefox?  If
so, you *might* want to keep on using them.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas.  In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard Network Driver Availiable? Hardware compatibility with Debian?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 12:08:06AM +0300, Odisseas-Nearxos Pasipoularidis wrote:
> I own a PC with an Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard and I am trying to install
> Debian OS on it.
> 
> I can't find the driver to configure the Ethernet Network port. I need it so
> I can continue the OS installation over the Internet and be able to use
> Internet later on.
> 
> Is there a driver appropriate? If yes, can you help me by providing it?
> 

What version of Debian are you trying to install?  Etch may not have the
driver; try installing Lenny or Sid.  I don't think there's a way to add
a driver during the install: this isn't microsoft.

Doug.


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Re: Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was Re: OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 03:26:26PM -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> IMHO, thinkpads have a long history of supporting linux (or rather that
> linux works on them) and many really like it.  OTOH, the Vostro is also
> a box fully supported (watch what wireless you get) and the Latitude is
> of similar build, but beefer.  I do not think any of these three are bad
> choices. I have never owned a thinkpad and would not due to the owners
> of the company.  This is a personal choice and you are free to disagree
> with that stance, but it does support the use of linux.

By owners of the company, do you mean Lenovo or their predecessor IBM?
I haven't seen a Lenovo Thinkpad.  I do have an IBM Thinkpad; the screen
died when the tent in which I was sitting was hit by lightening (at
least I had metal poles) but at least I was able to retreive the data
off the hard drive.

Doug.


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06/14/08 19:28, John Hasler wrote:
> Koh Choon Lin writes:
>> Just curious, what advantage does Gopher offers over other protocols?
> 
> The very fact that almost no one uses it can be an advantage.

That's superficial logic.  Practically, the fewer who use gopher,
the fewer who create gopher "pages", thus the narrower the range of
gopher's usefulness.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"Kittens give Morbo gas.  In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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=Xuum
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Which IM, blog and email service are best for debian users?

[Star Liu]

Hi Everyone, I'm sorry to ask this silly question here. I'm now using the 
microsoft live messenger, live spaces and hotmail as my IM, blog and email 
service provider, because i'm a windows user for a so long time. Two weeks 
before, I installed debian etch and lenny, and i like it very much. I'd like to 
get your opinions about which IM, blog and email services which suits debian 
best. Thanks!
_
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:00:08PM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:38:19PM +0200, David wrote:
> 
> > This isn't a solution for me. I want fsck to run regularly, 
> 
> Why?

Why not just run fsck manually (i.e. shutdown -RF now) whenever you
want.  If you do it frequently enough, you'll never hit the automatic
checking counter: you'll only get caught if you forget.  Set up cron to
send you an email reminder every week or something.

Doug.


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Nick Lidakis]

David wrote:


Here is a summary of my PC usage:

1) Turn on home PC briefly to check e-mail etc, before going to work,
then shut down.

2) Back from work, turn it on for the evening, and off again before
going to bed.

The PC is near my bed, I don't like to have the noisy fans etc going
while I'm trying to sleep :-) And I don't see the point of leaving it
on for 9+ hours while I'm not at home.


I don't know if that is the full extent of your computer usage (i.e., 
getting on the internet to check mail quickly) when being interrupted by 
fsck. If that is all you need, and if you might be in the market for a 
new mother board in the near future,  then you might want to consider 
getting one of the new ASUS boards with a Splashtop BIOS. There's more 
info on the company's website: http://www.splashtop.com/


In a nut shell, you'll be able to boot into a Linux based BIOS with a 
slimmed down version of Firefox. Perfect for checking a  quick email or 
other internet related info.


I'm currently looking at this board which is available now from Newegg: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299



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Re: Debian Lenny Installer

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 07:10:10PM +0200, Sebastian Humenda wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I tried to install Debian Testing, with the current CD-Image. I have to 
> use a braille display. With the first beta release, I could use my 
> braille display without any problems. Now on the first console there is 
> the message on the braille display: "Screen not in text mode". Is there a 
> new graphical installer?

I guess.  There have been activity.  (I am not so current on d-i)

Here is how I found out...

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2008/20080609

Installer images for i386 and amd64 have a new boot menu using
syslinux's vesamenu. This allows for a more user-friendly selection of
for example the regular or graphical installer. For the
multi-architecture CD/DVD images this change means the 64-bits version
of the installer needs to be selected manually from the menu. See the
Installation Guide for details on how to use the new menu.

and links to:

http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/i386/ch05s01.html.en#boot-screen

To bypass the graphical boot screen you can either blindly press Esc to
get a text boot prompt, or (equally blindly) press “H” followed by Enter
to select the “Help” option described above. After that your keystrokes
should be echoed at the prompt. To prevent the installer from using the
framebuffer for the rest of the installation, you will also want to add
fb=false to the boot prompt, as described in the help text. 

> I started my braille display at the second console. It is an Pacmate 
> Display. Is there a way to use the old installer or isn't there a 
> graphical installer?

You can always use stable install system to install minimum system.

Then edit /etc/apt/sources.list with somethhing like s/stable/testing/g.

Then use dist-upgrade.

For installer bug report/feature discussion, you will be better off
using [EMAIL PROTECTED] or BTS.  I think Debian is one of few
distributiond which care about braille display and its installer.

Osamu


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[John Hasler]

Koh Choon Lin writes:
> Just curious, what advantage does Gopher offers over other protocols?

The very fact that almost no one uses it can be an advantage.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/15 John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Iceweasel 3.0~rc2-1 still seems to support Gopher.
>

It was in the early RC's of FireFox as well, as I understand it the
final decision to pull it from FF3 was taken quite late in the day.

Peter


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/14 Koh Choon Lin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Just curious, what advantage does Gopher offers over other protocols?
>

I'd suggest reading
gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/0/gopher/relevance.txt for a full answer.

I think "advantage" is probably the wrong word it's an alternative, an
example of the type of feature that makes it distinct from other
protocols would be it's inherently structured menu driven hierarchical
nature, then there is the fact that it doesn't need much system power
to run - either from the server or from the client  and it is I
believe somewhat less of a bandwidth hog than http.

Peter


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/14 Andrew Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>  Evidently the gopher-internet is not at all dead.
>
It's alive a kicking with active development of several gopher servers
(including pygopherd in the Debian repositories), on the client side
there is the console client under active development and as previously
mentioned by Tzafrir Cohen there is the Overbite project which has
along term aim of providing a cross platform GUI gopher browser using
Adobe's AIR platform but which after the Mozilla people brought
forward the planned pulling of gopher support for FireFox from FireFox
4 to version 3 has been on a short term work frenzy to put together a
gopher plug-in for FireFox. I've not mentioned the Overbite project
before now as I promised Cameron Kaiser that I would keep quiet until
the official launch on June 18th and I'm still reluctant to talk about
it even though some else has already posted about it here, suffice to
say that it is a big improvement over the standard gopher rendering
engine in FireFox/Iceweasel 2 - in that it looks prettier and fixes
the bug which prevents FireFox/Iceweasel showing gopher sites that are
not on port 70 and that if if gopher support is to be retained in the
core of Iceweasel 3 the overbite engine is probably the one they
should use.

NB: There is a gopher search engine over at floodgap
gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/ and for the gopher challenged
http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[John Hasler]

Peter writes:
> I noted from a recent discussion on this list that iceweasel 3.0-rc2 has
> been made available in Sid and I was wondering what the plans are for
> support of the gopher protocol in Iceweasel 3? I ask this because support
> for the gopher protocol has been pulled from the core of FireFox 3 and I
> was hoping that Debian are not going to make the same (IMHO) mistake.

Iceweasel 3.0~rc2-1 still seems to support Gopher.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Andrew Reid]

On Saturday 14 June 2008 12:43, Peter Tynan wrote:

> Just to summarise the problems - Iceweasel (and FireFox) is the only
> "integrated"  GUI gopher browser, most other gopher browsers just show
> the gopher menu tree and in some cases plain text documents with
> Iceweasel I can view images, html documents, flash files, sound files
> etc (assuming I have the appropriate plug-in) where as other gopher
> browsers would have to open another application, also other GUI gopher
> browsers have suffered from a lack of development in recent years
> (mainly (IMHO) because Iceweasel/FireFox did the job so well) which
> means they can look quite dated and lack a certain user friendliness
> (as far as I know the console gopher client -is the only dedicated
> gopher client still under active development).

  I was looking for gopher sites to try out in response to this,
and ran into this, which may be of interest:



  Evidently the gopher-internet is not at all dead.

  A little googling reveals that there's a kio tool for konqueror 
that's supposed to do "gopher", it might be worthwhile to file
a feature-request on the KDE bug tracker for this.

-- A.
-- 
Andrew Reid / [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard Network Driver Availiable? Hardware compatibility with Debian?

[Andrew Reid]

On Saturday 14 June 2008 17:13, Odisseas-Nearxos Pasipoularidis wrote:
> Greetings
>
> I own a PC with an Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard and I am trying to install
> Debian OS on it.
>
> I can't find the driver to configure the Ethernet Network port. I need it
> so I can continue the OS installation over the Internet and be able to use
> Internet later on.

  I'm assuming you're installing "etch", or the current "stable"?

  There are a few options.  

  Firstly, consider installing "lenny" aka "testing".

  Secondly, consider slapping a cheap third-party ethernet
card in there for which the kernel has drivers.

  If you have some requirement to use "etch" and the stock device
(This happens to me from time to time -- corporate policy forbids
"testing", and the device is a rackmount box with no room for 
extra cards...), you're not dead, there are still options:

  Check the CD that came with the board, if you have it, it may
have drivers on it.  You may have to compile the driver, if they 
only provide source code.

  ASUS claims to have downloadable Linux drivers for this board.  Start 
from:
, and
use the widget on the left of that page to select the board model
in the top text field and "Drivers" in the bottom one, and then go.
The Linux drivers are near the bottom of the list of downloadable
items.

  If that fails, ASUS's specificaton page

  says that the LAN adapter is an "Intel 82566DM PCIe Gigabit LAN controller",
so drivers may be available from Intel.

  
  Of course, you can't download anything onto this machine itself, because
it's network device doesn't work.  There are two ways around this
chicken-and-egg problem that I'm aware of:
  (1) Download all the module-development packages directly from Debian,
  and manually install them on the system.  You need gcc and its
  dependencies, and the header package matching the installation
  kernel and its dependencies.  With the current net-install CD, this is 
  linux-headers-2.6.18-5-, where  is 686 or amd64.
  (2) Build the module on a different machine with the same architecture, 
  and install it manually.  Remember to run "depmod" and rebuild
  the initramfs when you install the module.


  I usually do (2), although I also have a USB stick with all the stuff
for (1) on it.

  It looks a bit complicated when it's all written down like that, but
it's actually not so bad.  Probably "lenny" or a  3rd-party network card
are your answer anyways.

-- A.
-- 
Andrew Reid / [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 01:38:19PM +0200, David wrote:

> This isn't a solution for me. I want fsck to run regularly, 

Why?

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||  best
ICQ# 16849754 || friend


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Re: Fetchmail

[James Richardson]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> [snip]
> yeah. I need to find out why `ps aux` shows fetchmail run by user
> '103' and exim run by user '101' instead of by their names...
> 
> A

Their names are longer than 8 characters.

-- 
James Richardson
James Richardson Technology Consulting
http://www.jamesr.biz


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:31:07PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
> I noted from a recent discussion on this list that iceweasel 3.0-rc2
> has been made available in Sid and I was wondering what the plans are
> for support of the gopher protocol in Iceweasel 3? I ask this because
> support for the gopher protocol has been pulled from the core of
> FireFox 3 and I was hoping that Debian are not going to make the same
> (IMHO) mistake.

Any extension to add support for this protocol?

E.g. http://gopher.floodgap.com/overbite/ .

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||  best
ICQ# 16849754 || friend


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Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard Network Driver Availiable? Hardware compatibility with Debian?

[Odisseas-Nearxos Pasipoularidis]

Greetings

I own a PC with an Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard and I am trying to install
Debian OS on it.

I can't find the driver to configure the Ethernet Network port. I need it so
I can continue the OS installation over the Internet and be able to use
Internet later on.

Is there a driver appropriate? If yes, can you help me by providing it?

I thank you in advance.

Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard Network Driver Availiable? Hardware compatibility with Debian?

[Odisseas-Nearxos Pasipoularidis]

Greetings

I own a PC with an Asus P5E-VM DO Motherboard and I am trying to install
Debian OS on it.

I can't find the driver to configure the Ethernet Network port. I need it so
I can continue the OS installation over the Internet and be able to use
Internet later on.

Is there a driver appropriate? If yes, can you help me by providing it?

I thank you in advance.

Re: Strange directory in home

[Paul Cartwright]

On Sat June 14 2008, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > Can anyone explain this ?
>
> The name "file:" reminds me of how file managers sometimes refer to
> local files in their address/location bar. Some application might
> misunderstand expressions such as "file:///home/frank/Desktop" and
> therefore create spurious directories and files in your home directory.
>
> You could try to catch processes that access these directories/files
> with lsof or fuser, maybe in combination with inotify-wait (package
> inotify-tools).

and if there was nothing after the file, the filename might be hidden 
characters or A SPACE.. you might try :
$ cd
$ls -la ?

like I did here. What I did was create a file called 1 . The wild card "?" 
would find it,and  any filename that was 1 character, including a space

# ls -la ?
ls: cannot access ?: No such file or directory
paulandcilla:/etc/udev/rules.d# >1
paulandcilla:/etc/udev/rules.d# ls -la ?
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2008-06-14 15:56 1
paulandcilla:/etc/udev/rules.d# 

-- 
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Koh Choon Lin]

>> If the gopher protocol still has life in it (and I gather
>> that it does), then the community will be better served by having
>> motivation to pick up development of the other browsers, or perhaps
>> incorporate better gopher support into the other web browsers.

Just curious, what advantage does Gopher offers over other protocols?


-- 
Regards
Koh Choon Lin


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Re: Strange directory in home

[Frank McCormick]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:49:22 +0200
Florian Kulzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 13:48:59 -0400, Frank McCormick wrote:
> > Lately,I've been noticing a strange directory popping up in my home
> > directory. It's called "file:" and has subdirectories  of home ,
> > home/frank , and Desktop with Desktop empty. 
> > I have deleted it several times but it keeps re-appearing.
> 
> The name "file:" reminds me of how file managers sometimes refer to
> local files in their address/location bar. Some application might
> misunderstand expressions such as "file:///home/frank/Desktop" and
> therefore create spurious directories and files in your home directory.
> 
> You could try to catch processes that access these directories/files
> with lsof or fuser, maybe in combination with inotify-wait (package
> inotify-tools).


  I'll install those packages...and we'll see what happens. My curiosity
is up :)

- -- 

Change the world one loan at a time - visit Kiva.org to find out how





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Re: Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was Re: OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

[Damon L. Chesser]

On Sat, 2008-06-14 at 11:24 -0700, Kenward Vaughan wrote:
> We are in the same position, and need a quick solution.  I'm looking at
> Newegg's Lenovo Thinkpads (R61i and T61) at <$1K and the Dell
> Vostro/Latitude D630 choices at the $600/850 levels. 
> 
> Costco has some HP's as well, roughly the same level.
> 
> The $$ is fine across the board--I wanted quick feelings about the
> models... are thinkpads simply superior build-wise and so are the best
> choice, or...?
> 
> I recognize that this could start a flameware--it's not the intent,
> though.  Honest thoughts are welcome.  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Kenward
> -- 
IMHO, thinkpads have a long history of supporting linux (or rather that
linux works on them) and many really like it.  OTOH, the Vostro is also
a box fully supported (watch what wireless you get) and the Latitude is
of similar build, but beefer.  I do not think any of these three are bad
choices. I have never owned a thinkpad and would not due to the owners
of the company.  This is a personal choice and you are free to disagree
with that stance, but it does support the use of linux.
> 
-- 
Damon L. Chesser
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser


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Re: Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was Re: OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

[Mike Bird]

On Sat June 14 2008 11:24:06 Kenward Vaughan wrote:
> We are in the same position, and need a quick solution.  I'm looking at
> Newegg's Lenovo Thinkpads (R61i and T61) at <$1K and the Dell
> Vostro/Latitude D630 choices at the $600/850 levels.
>
> Costco has some HP's as well, roughly the same level.
>
> The $$ is fine across the board--I wanted quick feelings about the
> models... are thinkpads simply superior build-wise and so are the best
> choice, or...?
>
> I recognize that this could start a flameware--it's not the intent,
> though.  Honest thoughts are welcome.

Thinkpads are just wonderful.  However to use the NVidia you'll need
either Testing or a mix of Unstable and Testing, either of which
entails an awful lot of volatility.

FWIW, Fedora 9 Gnome works fine on the T61, but use Fedora 8 if you
prefer KDE.

--Mike Bird


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[David]

Hi list.

For those interested, I've filed 2 wishlist bugs against the BTS:

sysvinit: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=486258

e2fsprogs: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=486261

David.


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Re: Strange directory in home

[Florian Kulzer]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 13:48:59 -0400, Frank McCormick wrote:
> Lately,I've been noticing a strange directory popping up in my home
> directory. It's called "file:" and has subdirectories  of home ,
> home/frank , and Desktop with Desktop empty. 
> I have deleted it several times but it keeps re-appearing.
> 
> Can anyone explain this ?

The name "file:" reminds me of how file managers sometimes refer to
local files in their address/location bar. Some application might
misunderstand expressions such as "file:///home/frank/Desktop" and
therefore create spurious directories and files in your home directory.

You could try to catch processes that access these directories/files
with lsof or fuser, maybe in combination with inotify-wait (package
inotify-tools).

-- 
Regards,| http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer
  Florian   |


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:51:06AM +0200, David wrote:
 
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:25:23AM +0200, David wrote:
> [...]
> >
> > Sort answer, read the disk-related HOWTOs and try switching to JFS.
> >
> 
> Unfortunately, experimenting with other filesystems will have to wait
> until I have a spare drive. I don't know of a way to convert to other
> filesystems on the fly :-) Also, the need to defer fsck seems like a
> poor reason to go through the trouble of switching my home PC's
> filesystem :-)
> 

There are several hard-disk HOWTOs in the doc-linux-howto packages (pick
your format).  Its not that hard if you have a spare partition or just
good backups.  Its especially easy if you're using LVM.  Without LVM I
admit it can be a bit of a shell-game but it only takes a few minutes
once you map it out. 

Unless you're willing to rewrite fsck to get a defer mode, switching to
a faster fs is a valid option.  

 
> I disagree here. You can easily use up 300 MB on / by installing a few
> large packages from Debian. Or are you saying that / should contain
> almost nothing, and that /usr, /var/, etc should all be on separate
> partitions?

Yes, when one says that / is 300MB, it means that /usr, /var, and /home
are separate.  Etch won't fit on 512MB complete yet alone having any
special packages installed.

> 
> Maybe if your system is extremely critical you would need to have / this way.
> 
> Personally, I would like to be able to take a 500 GB drive, and put
> the whole filesystem on / (including /boot, and a swap file) in my
> home PC, and not be forced to wait for bootup fsck to scan the entire
> drive every X days/boot before I can use it. I don't mind if it takes
> an hour to scan, as long as that hour is not when I need to be
> actively using the PC (after I tell the machine to shut down is a good
> time).

I would call my home computer extremely critical.  I don't want some
bug corrupting /usr or /var and making it so that I can't boot to fix
it.  With / separate and small, the chances of it getting corrupted are
rather small.

Doug.


> 
> Also, that hour-long scan needs to be cleanly interruptible. Ctrl+C or
> ESC needs to do the right thing.
> 
> David.
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: How to install a small graphic manager

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:24:21PM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 09:00:42PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> 
> > My smallest box is a 486 with 32MB ram with a 512 MB drive.  Granted it
> > can't run Etch anymore but it runs up-to-date xorg from OpenBSD.
> 
> Why can't this box run Etch? IIRC the minimal requirements of the Debian
> Installer is either 32MB or 24MB (for the "low memory" variant).

The installer needs 48 MB.  I did the drive-swap juggle from another
computer.  It takes Etch 5 minutes to boot, and about 30 seconds from
login to bash prompt.  X takes about 10 minutes to start and even icewm
with Xorg hits swap, and this with the vesa driver.  I get good
resoultion with the xf86-v3 S3 driver but v3 was removed from Etch (and
Sarge).  Aptitude hits swap very hard loading all the info on all the
packages in main into memory and causes the box to thrash.

In short, even if you get it loaded, Etch is a dog on old boxes.  The
box is rather zippy on OpenBSD.
 
Doug.


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:32:55AM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
 
> Watch out that data=journal.  It is far more kernel-bug prone than
> data=ordered, for the simple fact that almost everyone uses data=ordered,
> including those who mess with the ext3 code, so bugs can hide in the
> data=journal code paths a lot more easily.
> 

If data=journal is subject to kernel bugs then you are saying that Linux
doensn't have any filesystem suitable for non-UPS-protected systems.  If
the devs don't properly audit the data=journal code then they shouldn't
provide it as an option in a production kernel.

Doug.


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Re: POP3 server

[Tobias Nissen]

Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
> I have used POP3 server now a few months, but I have forgot whitch
> one it was. :-/ How can I find out whitch server I am using? :-D

Is the server still configured in any application you are using?


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Re: CGI scripts and Busybox

[Nyizsnyik Ferenc]

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:32:19 +
Tzafrir Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 09:28:02PM +0200, Nyizsnyik Ferenc wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:58 +0300
> > ccostin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello
> > > 
> > > What is the minimal configuration for httpd.conf required by
> > > busybox httpd to run simple CGI scripts ?
> 
> I believe that busybox in Etch does not support it yet.
> 
> Generally busybox is a rather slow-moving package, due to its usage in
> the installer. Consider downloading it from source and rebuilding.
> It's a single binary.
> 
> > > For this are necessary any special environment exported
> > > variables ?
> > > 
> > > When I try to load simple bourne shell scripts, Iceweasel  ask me
> > > to save them on disk.
> > > 
> > > Command line for busybox is
> > > busybox httpd -h /var/www/
> > > and shell scripts are  contained in /var/www/cgi-bin/, and have
> > > a+x execution bits.
> > > 
> > 
> > Sounds like a problem with the content-type. Make sure you set it to
> > text/html, like the following simple script:
> > 
> > #!/usr/bin/bash
> 
> /bin/bash fir a script? I figure busybox ash would be faster (and may
> even save you time on for/exec, as it's the same binary). 
> 
> shell scripts may be useful for trivial CGI scripts. But for anything
> more complicated they become rather slow. And I really don't trust
> them to handle input correctly.
> 
> The busybox "tiny unitities" page recommends microperl and lua.
> microperl requires rebuilding perl. The result, though, is a more
> limited perl variant, but also considerbly smaller (e.g: 1MB vs. 5MB)
> and hence faster to load and requires less memory.
> 

ccostin explicitly mentioned Bourne shell scripts, that's why I used
bash. Very impressive work with the benchmarks, though.

-- 
Nyizsa.
http://nyizsa.uni.cc


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Lenovo Thinkpad, HP, or Vostro/Latitude? was Re: OT: Laptop for College Bound Student?

[Kenward Vaughan]

We are in the same position, and need a quick solution.  I'm looking at
Newegg's Lenovo Thinkpads (R61i and T61) at <$1K and the Dell
Vostro/Latitude D630 choices at the $600/850 levels. 

Costco has some HP's as well, roughly the same level.

The $$ is fine across the board--I wanted quick feelings about the
models... are thinkpads simply superior build-wise and so are the best
choice, or...?

I recognize that this could start a flameware--it's not the intent,
though.  Honest thoughts are welcome.  

Cheers,


Kenward
-- 
In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be 
_teachers_ and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, 
because passing civilization along from one generation to the next 
ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone 
could have. - Lee Iacocca


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Re: Fetchmail

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> yeah. I need to find out why `ps aux` shows fetchmail run by user
> '103' and exim run by user '101' instead of by their names...
>   

I believe it has to do with the length of the name. (Even tough
fetchmail does not seem very long.)

Taken from
http://wiki.debian.org/PkgExim4UserFAQ#head-101b63e6e9bf07e1daa3a9998eb5707a0b2cea6d

-- 
Conscience doth make cowards of us all.
-- Shakespeare

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://move.to/hpkb


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/14 Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> If the gopher protocol still has life in it (and I gather
> that it does), then the community will be better served by having
> motivation to pick up development of the other browsers, or perhaps
> incorporate better gopher support into the other web browsers.
>
> .02
>
> A

er... probably true but it will still be irritating when I have to
switch programs just because the site I want to view is gopher (I hate
having lots of windows open) -  now where do I post to request that
xgopher is be reinstated in the repositories :-/

Peter


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Paul Cartwright]

On Sat June 14 2008, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> so for me, this is an interesting situation. But I don't use
> gopher. For you it must be downright annoying.
>
> Here's how it's interesting. Firefox provided a full-blown modern
> gopher browser that essentially killed the other gui gopher browsers
> by being vastly superior. Now firefox has dropped gopher support. I
> think that will do one of two things: 1) largely kill what remains of
> gopher, 2) spur development of gui gopher browsers that have
> languished. I would hope for the second option. I don't think it
> serves anyone to have a single dominant player for a given
> protocol. If the gopher protocol still has life in it (and I gather
> that it does), then the community will be better served by having
> motivation to pick up development of the other browsers, or perhaps
> incorporate better gopher support into the other web browsers.

a blast from the past:)
http://seanm.ca/mosaic/
Development of Mosaic stopped in 1996 (official date was January 7th 1997). I 
have updated Mosaic so it will compile on a modern Linux system. I also added 
support for the gopher info tag.

I remember using Mosaix for gopher sites, when MY COMPANY blocked us from 
using http sites, but they DIDN'T block gopher... I learned how to use 
gopher!


-- 
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux user # 367800
Registered Ubuntu User #12459


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Re: Fetchmail

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 11:25:00AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> I wrote:
> > Those are not the only choices.  I run Fetchmail as an unprivileged user
> > named "mailagent" which then passes the mail to Mailagent (could just as
> > well be Procmail) for local sorting and delivery.
> 
> Andrew Sackville-West writes:
> > It appears that the fetchmail init script does something like this
> > already. At least on my mail server, it is running as user "103".
> 
> Yes, it appears that my method (which I developed before Fetchmail had a
> daemon mode (initial version, before Fetchmail existed)) is obsolete.
> 
> > I'm not sure why this user doesn't have a name, but regardless, it's not
> > a root process.
> 
> 103 should be the user "fetchmail".

yeah. I need to find out why `ps aux` shows fetchmail run by user
'103' and exim run by user '101' instead of by their names...

A


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video playback and beamers (was: Debian on laptop)

[Florian Kulzer]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 18:27:19 +0200, Bernd Kloss wrote:

[...]

> I have Debian/Etch on a Dell Latitude D 520.
> No Problems. 
> The only thing that is a bit tricky is getting a picture of a video on the 
> Beamer (clone-mode). For instance *.flv: You get the full picture on the lfp 
> and the program-frame of the player over beamer, but not the movie. This area 
> stays black.
> Same with DVDs: Here you have to choose within Kaffeine/xine/video/xshm.
> Don't ask me why

AFAIK, the video overlay only works on either the LFP or the external
output with most graphic cards, but not on two displays at the same
time. I have often seen colleagues who use Windows run into the same
problem when they want to show videos in a beamer-based presentation, so
I suspect that this not a linux-specific issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_overlay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_video_extension

You can use use the xvattr tool (available from debian-multimedia) to
switch the video overlay to the external output. Also, switching off the
internal display could be enough to bring the video output to the
beamer; this may require a restart of X.

Configuring your media player to use X11-XImage/Shm will allow you to
see the video on both displays, but it comes at the price of higher CPU
load and possibly degraded video playback quality. If you really need to
have the video playing on both outputs then you can try if X11-OpenGL is
better in terms of CPU load.

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  Florian   |


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 05:43:19PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
> 2008/6/14 Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 04:42:08PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
> >>
> >> Iceweasel  (and FireFox) prior to version 3 despite a few bugs were
> >> the most convenient GUI gopher browser available and the loss of
> >> gopher support would be a big blow for gopher users.
> >
> > that would be a problem.
...
> 
> Just to summarise the problems - Iceweasel (and FireFox) is the only
> "integrated"  GUI gopher browser, most other gopher browsers just show
> the gopher menu tree and in some cases plain text documents with
> Iceweasel I can view images, html documents, flash files, sound files
> etc (assuming I have the appropriate plug-in) where as other gopher
> browsers would have to open another application, also other GUI gopher
> browsers have suffered from a lack of development in recent years
> (mainly (IMHO) because Iceweasel/FireFox did the job so well) which
> means they can look quite dated and lack a certain user friendliness
> (as far as I know the console gopher client -is the only dedicated
> gopher client still under active development).

so for me, this is an interesting situation. But I don't use
gopher. For you it must be downright annoying. 

Here's how it's interesting. Firefox provided a full-blown modern
gopher browser that essentially killed the other gui gopher browsers
by being vastly superior. Now firefox has dropped gopher support. I
think that will do one of two things: 1) largely kill what remains of
gopher, 2) spur development of gui gopher browsers that have
languished. I would hope for the second option. I don't think it
serves anyone to have a single dominant player for a given
protocol. If the gopher protocol still has life in it (and I gather
that it does), then the community will be better served by having
motivation to pick up development of the other browsers, or perhaps
incorporate better gopher support into the other web browsers. 

.02

A


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Re: Debian on laptop

[Sam Kuper]

http://www.debian.org/misc/laptops/ may be of use.

2008/6/14 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On 14/06/2008, Marloque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would look into the Ubuntu laptops from Dell. If they run Ubuntu,
> there's
> > a chance they'll run Debian, since Ubuntu is based off of Debian.
> >
>
> I wrote a review of a Dell Ubuntu Laptop here:
>
> http://everything2.com/title/Dell+Ubuntu+Laptop
>
> HTH,
> - Jordi G. H.
>
>
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>
>

Debian Lenny Installer

[Sebastian Humenda]

Hello,

I tried to install Debian Testing, with the current CD-Image. I have to use a 
braille display. With the first beta release, I could use my braille display 
without any problems. Now on the first console there is the message on the 
braille display: "Screen not in text mode". Is there a new graphical installer?
I started my braille display at the second console. It is an Pacmate Display. Is 
there a way to use the old installer or isn't there a graphical installer?


Thanks
Sebastian 



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Re: Debian on laptop

[Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso]

On 14/06/2008, Marloque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would look into the Ubuntu laptops from Dell. If they run Ubuntu, there's
> a chance they'll run Debian, since Ubuntu is based off of Debian.
>

I wrote a review of a Dell Ubuntu Laptop here:

 http://everything2.com/title/Dell+Ubuntu+Laptop

HTH,
- Jordi G. H.


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/14 Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 04:42:08PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
>>
>> Iceweasel  (and FireFox) prior to version 3 despite a few bugs were
>> the most convenient GUI gopher browser available and the loss of
>> gopher support would be a big blow for gopher users.
>
> that would be a problem.
>
> A
>

Just to summarise the problems - Iceweasel (and FireFox) is the only
"integrated"  GUI gopher browser, most other gopher browsers just show
the gopher menu tree and in some cases plain text documents with
Iceweasel I can view images, html documents, flash files, sound files
etc (assuming I have the appropriate plug-in) where as other gopher
browsers would have to open another application, also other GUI gopher
browsers have suffered from a lack of development in recent years
(mainly (IMHO) because Iceweasel/FireFox did the job so well) which
means they can look quite dated and lack a certain user friendliness
(as far as I know the console gopher client -is the only dedicated
gopher client still under active development).

Peter


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Re: Fetchmail

[John Hasler]

I wrote:
> Those are not the only choices.  I run Fetchmail as an unprivileged user
> named "mailagent" which then passes the mail to Mailagent (could just as
> well be Procmail) for local sorting and delivery.

Andrew Sackville-West writes:
> It appears that the fetchmail init script does something like this
> already. At least on my mail server, it is running as user "103".

Yes, it appears that my method (which I developed before Fetchmail had a
daemon mode (initial version, before Fetchmail existed)) is obsolete.

> I'm not sure why this user doesn't have a name, but regardless, it's not
> a root process.

103 should be the user "fetchmail".
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Debian on laptop

[Bernd Kloss]

Am Samstag, 14. Juni 2008 15:41 schrieb Paul Cartwright:
> On Sat June 14 2008, Marloque wrote:
> > I would look into the Ubuntu laptops from Dell. If they run Ubuntu,
> > there's a chance they'll run Debian, since Ubuntu is based off of Debian.
> >
> > Must my two pennies.
>
> I have Debian running on my newer Dell XPS desktop, complete with NVIDIA
> drivers. I have Kubuntu running on my older XPS laptop, never tried Debian
> on it.
>
> --
> Paul Cartwright

I have Debian/Etch on a Dell Latitude D 520.
No Problems. 
The only thing that is a bit tricky is getting a picture of a video on the 
Beamer (clone-mode). For instance *.flv: You get the full picture on the lfp 
and the program-frame of the player over beamer, but not the movie. This area 
stays black.
Same with DVDs: Here you have to choose within Kaffeine/xine/video/xshm.
Don't ask me why

Bernd Kloss

 


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Joey Hess]

Peter Tynan wrote:
> I was under the impression that although Iceweasel started off as a
> simple rebranding project that the maintainers had greater ambitions
> and that they already made changes to the source that have nothing to
> do with the branding - am I wrong?

So, let’s dig into our firefox_2.0~rc1+dfsg-1.diff.gz:

* Changes to disable application upgrade (we want that to happen through 
apt-get) and change some other default preferences,
* Changes to fix “make distclean” so that it really cleans the build 
directory,
* Change not to build the “mangle” utility,
* Change not to call netstat to generate entropy, which is useless on linux,
* Changes to make Firefox® build and work on architectures such as hppa, 
mips, mips64, m68k, ia64, sparc64, alpha, and arm, which the Mozilla® guys 
don’t seem to care much for,
* Change to add a preference directory so that users can put their set of 
customized preferences in /etc/firefox/pref,
* Change to allow to build flat chrome without the zip utility,
* Change to allow to use system library for myspell, instead of statically 
linking the bundled one,
* Changes to allow to build s390 binaries on s390x host with s390 toolchain 
(same applies with x86 binaries on amd64 host with x86 toolchain),
* Changes to work around bugs with the hidden visibility pragma on gcc,
* Changes to make the pango backend actually build correctly,
* Changes to avoid some error messages while trying to create Makefiles 
from inexistant Makefile.in’s,
* Change to install in /usr/lib/firefox instead of /usr/lib/firefox-x.y,
* Change not to build useless chromelist.txt files,
* Changes to make helper applications with parameters work,
* Changes to allow builds against GTK 2.8,
* Changes to work around an Xrender bug,
* Changes to make the Gecko/yymm string taken from preferences instead 
of being half-hard-coded (you could change it with preferences, but it would 
still be set to the hard-coded value at start time ; and you could change it 
again with preferences…),
* Change to allow mice extra buttons to act as something else than a left 
button,
* Change to allow to build with -Wl,–as-needed to avoid linking against a 
whole lot of useless libraries, without losing the link on libxpcom.so which is 
required by some extensions’ components,
* Changes not to shlibsign the NSS modules at build time, since we’re 
stripping the binaries afterwards, thus breaking the signature. We do build the 
signatures later, within the maintainer scripts.

That’s not that many changes, and most of them were taken from either some
Mozilla® CVS trunk or the Mozilla® Bugzilla™. And most of those that were
not taken from there have been sent, except those that really don’t make
much sense outside Debian.

   -- Mike Hommey 

   Overall, Ubuntu applies the same set of patches as Debian, plus some
   more.
   [...]
   So, while I’m at it, here is an exhaustive list of the bugs where we took
   or sent the patches that are applied to Iceweasel: #51429, #161826, #252033,
   #258429, #273524, #287150, #289394, #294879, #307168, #307418, #314927,
   #319012, #322806, #323114, #325148, #326245, #330628, #331781, #331785,
   #331818, #333289, #08, #343953, #345077, #345079, #345080, #345413.

   -- Mike Hommey 

That was two years ago, but I don't believe things have significantly
changed. Simply comparing the size of the diffs suggests that
the overall level of patching has decreased between 2.0 and 3.0:

-rw-rw-r-- 2 dak debadmin 182K Apr 30 01:47 iceweasel_2.0.0.14-0etch1.diff.gz
-rw-rw-r-- 2 dak debadmin 154K Jun  9 05:02 iceweasel_3.0~rc2-1.diff.gz

You'll find much more and larger patches in things like the
kernel, glibc, and OOo than you will in our forced "fork" of iceweasel.

-rw-rw-r-- 2 dak debadmin 4.1M Jun 12 10:47 linux-2.6_2.6.25-5.diff.gz
-rw-rw-r-- 2 dak debadmin 707K Jun  2 19:32 glibc_2.7-12.diff.gz
-rw-rw-r-- 2 dak debadmin  82M Jun  1 17:02 openoffice.org_2.4.1~rc2-1.diff.gz

-- 
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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 04:42:08PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
> 2008/6/14 Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:31:07PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
> >> I noted from a recent discussion on this list that iceweasel 3.0-rc2
> >> has been made available in Sid and I was wondering what the plans are
> >> for support of the gopher protocol in Iceweasel 3? I ask this because
> >> support for the gopher protocol has been pulled from the core of
> >> FireFox 3 and I was hoping that Debian are not going to make the same
> >> (IMHO) mistake.
> >
> > well, Debian's Iceweasel is simply a rebranded Firefox. I would be
> > shocked if debian put back in core functionality that mozilla took
> > out...

> 
> I was under the impression that although Iceweasel started off as a
> simple rebranding project that the maintainers had greater ambitions
> and that they already made changes to the source that have nothing to
> do with the branding - am I wrong?

hmmm... I don't know that. You could be right, though a moderately
quick google and reviewing the debian changelogs suggests that it is
largely just rebranding. 

> 
> Iceweasel  (and FireFox) prior to version 3 despite a few bugs were
> the most convenient GUI gopher browser available and the loss of
> gopher support would be a big blow for gopher users.

that would be a problem.

A


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Lazarus & Debian

[Paul Csanyi]

Hello!

My system is Debian Etch And Half.

I need to install Lazarus but there is no debian package for Etch.

Can I, and if can, how can I install Lazarus on Debian Etch?

I have tried to search on Google but can't find any solution.

-- 
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http://www.freewebs.com/csanyi-pal/index.htm


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[David]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Chris Bannister
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:51:06AM +0200, David wrote:
>> Hi again list.
>>
>> I'm going to reply to several mails at once. Please excuse the length,
>
> Please don't do that. *You* can receive your mails in digest mode by
> specifying it with some command to the list server, but PLEASE don't
> enforce it on others.
>
> There is already an extreme waste of bandwidth by people not trimming
> their posts.
>

Hi, I don't understand your complaint (maybe because I haven't used
digest mode before, and don't know how it works exactly).

If I send 5 separate replies instead of 1, doesn't it use up more
bandwidth? ie, extra mail envelopes, headers, etc. I did make an
effort to trim unrelated lines (not everyone on this thread has done
that).

Or are you saying I should make my posts as short as possible, even if
I feel that a longer post is required to reduce ambiguity & follow-up
mails explaining what I really meant.

At least with 1 mail you can delete/ignore it easier than 5 separate ones.

Please explain in more detail why 1 longer mail is worse, or provide a
link where I can read more.

Thanks,

David.


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

2008/6/14 Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:31:07PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
>> I noted from a recent discussion on this list that iceweasel 3.0-rc2
>> has been made available in Sid and I was wondering what the plans are
>> for support of the gopher protocol in Iceweasel 3? I ask this because
>> support for the gopher protocol has been pulled from the core of
>> FireFox 3 and I was hoping that Debian are not going to make the same
>> (IMHO) mistake.
>
> well, Debian's Iceweasel is simply a rebranded Firefox. I would be
> shocked if debian put back in core functionality that mozilla took
> out...
>
> A
>

I was under the impression that although Iceweasel started off as a
simple rebranding project that the maintainers had greater ambitions
and that they already made changes to the source that have nothing to
do with the branding - am I wrong?

Iceweasel  (and FireFox) prior to version 3 despite a few bugs were
the most convenient GUI gopher browser available and the loss of
gopher support would be a big blow for gopher users.


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Re: Fetchmail

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 07:35:59AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Jamie writes:
> > using individual user ~/.fetchmailrc files is probably a safer and
> > preferred way to use fetchmail.
> 
> Those are not the only choices.  I run Fetchmail as an unprivileged user
> named "mailagent" which then passes the mail to Mailagent (could just as
> well be Procmail) for local sorting and delivery.

It appears that the fetchmail init script does something like this
already. At least on my mail server, it is running as user "103". I'm
not sure why this user doesn't have a name, but regardless, it's not a
root process.

A


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Re: Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 01:31:07PM +0100, Peter Tynan wrote:
> I noted from a recent discussion on this list that iceweasel 3.0-rc2
> has been made available in Sid and I was wondering what the plans are
> for support of the gopher protocol in Iceweasel 3? I ask this because
> support for the gopher protocol has been pulled from the core of
> FireFox 3 and I was hoping that Debian are not going to make the same
> (IMHO) mistake.

well, Debian's Iceweasel is simply a rebranded Firefox. I would be
shocked if debian put back in core functionality that mozilla took
out...

A


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Re: Debian on laptop

[Damon L. Chesser]

On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 05:54 -0700, alfa beta wrote:
> Dear Sirs, 
> 
> 
> After spending hours of reading about the Linux distributions and
> compatible hardware, I feel I get crazzy. I chose you because of your
> "Social Contract", though I'm not sure Debian is still updated,
> apologize, I couldn't find recent articles, I am a newbye. 
> 
> Question: Could you recommend me a laptop model, with all details,
> which works completely, or perfectly with Debian? Including
> audio-video hardware, and hardware for connection to Internet (I'm on
> cable modem, UPC is my provider). 
> 
> I don't need an expensive one. Perhaps an anti-glare, anti-reflex
> screen is needed because I'll have to read a lot. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> E.S. 

Well, again I will say that a Dell Vostro runs Debian well.  Don't know
about a webcam (some models come with one).  About the only issue is the
sound is not very loud in Linux (but it is in Windows) but it does work.
One can be had for about $500 USD up to $1800?.

Battery life on my Dell Vostro 1500 (9 cell) is from 5 to 7 hours.

As for your cable modem, ANY recognized ethernet card will work, your
cable modem does not care about the OS.  If the OS can work the ethernet
card, your cable modem will work.  I do not remember the last time I
found an ethernet card that did not work.  It has been years.  I suppose
you can still find one, but the odds are if you grab a box off the
shelve, install Linux on it, at least the ethernet will work.

HTH
-- 
Damon L. Chesser
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser


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Re: POP3 server

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 02:26:37PM +0300, Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
> I have used POP3 server now a few months, but I have forgot whitch one 
> it was. :-/ How can I find out whitch server I am using? :-D

Start with:

  netstat -lntp | grep 110

to check what process listens on port 110 .

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||  best
ICQ# 16849754 || friend


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Re: CGI scripts and Busybox

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 09:28:02PM +0200, Nyizsnyik Ferenc wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:03:58 +0300
> ccostin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello
> > 
> > What is the minimal configuration for httpd.conf required by busybox
> > httpd to run simple CGI scripts ?

I believe that busybox in Etch does not support it yet.

Generally busybox is a rather slow-moving package, due to its usage in
the installer. Consider downloading it from source and rebuilding. It's
a single binary.

> > For this are necessary any special environment exported variables ?
> > 
> > When I try to load simple bourne shell scripts, Iceweasel  ask me to
> > save them on disk.
> > 
> > Command line for busybox is
> > busybox httpd -h /var/www/
> > and shell scripts are  contained in /var/www/cgi-bin/, and have a+x
> > execution bits.
> > 
> 
> Sounds like a problem with the content-type. Make sure you set it to
> text/html, like the following simple script:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/bash

/bin/bash fir a script? I figure busybox ash would be faster (and may
even save you time on for/exec, as it's the same binary). 

shell scripts may be useful for trivial CGI scripts. But for anything
more complicated they become rather slow. And I really don't trust them
to handle input correctly.

The busybox "tiny unitities" page recommends microperl and lua.
microperl requires rebuilding perl. The result, though, is a more
limited perl variant, but also considerbly smaller (e.g: 1MB vs. 5MB)
and hence faster to load and requires less memory.

> echo -e "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
> echo -e "Hello world.\n";

We all love benchmarks, right? I ran the following with:

bash   3.2-4
busybox1:1.10.2-1
dash   0.5.4-9
pdksh  5.2.14-23
posh   0.6.8
zsh4.3.6-4
coreutils  6.10-6 (for shells with no built-in 'echo')
lua40  4.0-13
lua50  5.0.3-3
perl   5.10.0-10
python2.4  2.4.5-2
python2.5  2.5.2-6
ruby1.81.8.7-2



I ran the following several times for each shell, and the one I provide
here is a "typical" run. There wasn't great variance anyway.

bash:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do bash -c 'echo -e "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m3.220s
user0m1.328s
sys 0m2.036s

dash:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do dash -c 'echo -e "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m1.242s
user0m0.456s
sys 0m0.932s

posh:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do posh -c 'echo -e "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m1.378s
user0m0.536s
sys 0m0.916s

$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do pdksh -c 'echo -e "Content-type: 
text/html\n\n"; echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m1.456s
user0m0.664s
sys 0m0.908s

zsh:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do zsh -c 'echo -e "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m3.892s
user0m1.760s
sys 0m2.308s


busybox ash:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do busybox ash -c 'echo -e "Content-type: 
text/html\n\n"; echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

reel0m1.390s
user0m0.496s
sys 0m1.108s

rc:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do rc -c 'echo -e "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
echo -e "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m1.870s
user0m0.808s
sys 0m1.188s


So larger shells take much more time to load. They make up to this if
you actually use their built-in abilities wisely to save processing with
external utilities. 

But is it worth it?

So let's check some other languages:

perl:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do perl -e 'print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m2.788s
user0m1.200s
sys 0m1.708s

perl, loading the module CGI:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do perl -MCGI -e 'print "Content-type: 
text/html\n\n"; print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m29.725s
user0m25.350s
sys 0m4.616s

lua40:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do lua40 -e 'print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m1.595s
user0m0.588s
sys 0m1.112s

lua50:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do lua50 -e 'print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"; 
print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m2.244s
user0m0.996s
sys 0m1.332s

ruby:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do ruby1.8 -e 'print "Content-type: 
text/html\n\n"; print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m5.979s
user0m3.976s
sys 0m2.212s

python2.4:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do python2.4 -c 'print "Content-type: 
text/html\n\n"; print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m12.668s
user0m8.245s
sys 0m4.664s

python2.5:
$ time (for i in `seq 1000`; do python2.5 -c 'print "Content-type: 
text/html\n\n"; print "Hello world.\n"'; done >/dev/null)

real0m14.134s
user0m9.609s
sys 0m4.720s


Note that this is a very minimal scri

Re: Debian on laptop

[Paul Cartwright]

On Sat June 14 2008, Marloque wrote:
> I would look into the Ubuntu laptops from Dell. If they run Ubuntu,
> there's a chance they'll run Debian, since Ubuntu is based off of Debian.
>
> Must my two pennies.

I have Debian running on my newer Dell XPS desktop, complete with NVIDIA 
drivers. I have Kubuntu running on my older XPS laptop, never tried Debian on 
it.

-- 
Paul Cartwright


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Re: indexing particular file types

[Mag Gam]

Yes. This is exactly what I intend to do. Thanks for the feedback.

If you have any advice on this please don't hesitate to share with us :-)

TIA


On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/10/08 05:43, Mag Gam wrote:
> > Is it possible to index all symbolic links (source and destination) of a
> > filesystem? For example, in my university we have a project where
> > professors use vast amount of disk space -- over 10 TB a month. We
> > provide the professors a mount point, /barXX and export that mount
> > point. The professor then symbolic links that filesystem like, ln -s
> > /nfsexport/barXX June10_data. I would like to keep track of these
> > symbolic links. Is there a good method for this? Is there a feature in
> > ext3 which will let me keep track of these symbolic links. I can always
> > do a find /fs and compare inode info, but that would just take too
> long...
>
> A relatively simple python or Perl script would do the trick.
>
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA  USA
>
> "Kittens give Morbo gas.  In lighter news, the city of New New
> York is doomed."
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>

Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 02:32:29PM -0300, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> > Your / should be small, fsck-friendly, and resilient as all heck.  If
> > running fsck in your / takes enough time that you wouldn't afford to do it
> > at every boot (in a recent system), then your / is too large in my book.
> > 
> > The same holds for any other partition you can't easily umount to fsck in
> > maintenance mode.
> 
> Agreed.  / only needs to be 300 MB or so with a separate /boot (if
> needed for the hardware).  / with /boot easily fits in 512 MB and takes
> only a few seconds to fsck with ext3 and with data=journal still runs
> pleanty fast.

Watch out that data=journal.  It is far more kernel-bug prone than
data=ordered, for the simple fact that almost everyone uses data=ordered,
including those who mess with the ext3 code, so bugs can hide in the
data=journal code paths a lot more easily.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, charlie derr wrote:
> Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
>>> I guess the defaults are very conservative settings regarding
>>> reliability of your data and were implemented at a time when there was
>>> no journalling for data protection.
>>
>> Actually, kernel bugs, memory problems, corruption in the CPU to disk
>> platter path, and media bitrot are the reasons for which scheduled fsck
>> exist.  Journals don't help or hinder it in any way.
>>
>> Otherwise, you'd fsck only on unclean shutdown, or after a known
>> data-trashing event (like an erroneous write access to the raw device, or IO
>> errors on the device, etc).
>
> I'd love an explanation about why only certain filesystem types seem to 
> "need" this fsck as a regular event.   Maybe I've got some details wrong, 

The only thing that makes periodic fsck rarely needed is a filesystem which
uses strong enough CRC or ECC to protect ***all*** of its metadata, and for
those with logs and journals, this ALSO requires it to deal properly with
all possible failure modes for replay (otherwise it will corrupt itself).

You'd still need to fsck it every time you suspect of kernel bugs in the
filesystem code.

A filesystem that does live fsck (not just data integrity testing, but an
actuall full filesystem metadata integrity check like fsck does) is just
doing the periodic fsck for you anyway, so it doesn't count.

As an example: XFS has extremely well made test suites that SGI runs on the
code in the kernel, so bugs (nowadays) are very rare in mainline *releases*
(not -rc!).  That doesn't mean your hardware will take care of the data XFS
entrusted to it as it should have.  We are NOT using it on high-end SGI
hardware, after all.

AFAIK, none of the for-production filesystems have full metadata protection
yet, or live fsck capabilities.  But I really might be wrong about this, so
let's see if someone who knows better can point us to filesystems with that
feature.

But DO note that you can't have it both ways.  The more resilient and safe a
filesystem tries to be, the SLOWER it will have to be in order to enforce
that.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: How to install a small graphic manager

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 09:00:42PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 02:42:55PM +0100, abelahcene wrote:
> > I have a miniPc, can't install the heavy  gnome or kde on it . I want to 
> > install a just graphic , in fact I want to use it , just to display a 
> > window . Any small WM will be OK.
> > 
> > So I have to install the system whitout X, and complete it with small X 
> > later, I don't know what are the required packages to run correctly the X.
> > 
> 
> My smallest box is a 486 with 32MB ram with a 512 MB drive.  Granted it
> can't run Etch anymore but it runs up-to-date xorg from OpenBSD.

Why can't this box run Etch? IIRC the minimal requirements of the Debian
Installer is either 32MB or 24MB (for the "low memory" variant).

> 
> I use icewm on all my boxes.
> 
> If you only want to show one window, then technically you don't need a
> window manager.  For convenience, you could have rxvt start then run
> your app from that.  Set window size and position with --geometry.

Which is fine, as long as the app does not pop-up any additional
windows. Then things become strange.

For a single-application scenario, you may also run it on the console
frame-buffer directly (at least if it is GTK), I believe.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ||  best
ICQ# 16849754 || friend


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Re: Fetchmail

[John Hasler]

Jamie writes:
> using individual user ~/.fetchmailrc files is probably a safer and
> preferred way to use fetchmail.

Those are not the only choices.  I run Fetchmail as an unprivileged user
named "mailagent" which then passes the mail to Mailagent (could just as
well be Procmail) for local sorting and delivery.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Debian on laptop

[Marloque]

I would look into the Ubuntu laptops from Dell. If they run Ubuntu, 
there's a chance they'll run Debian, since Ubuntu is based off of Debian.


Must my two pennies.

--Marloque

alfa beta wrote:

Dear Sirs,


After spending hours of reading about the Linux distributions and 
compatible hardware, I feel I get crazzy. I chose you because of your 
"Social Contract", though I'm not sure Debian is still updated, 
apologize, I couldn't find recent articles, I am a newbye.


Question: Could you recommend me a laptop model, with all details, which 
works completely, or perfectly with Debian? Including audio-video 
hardware, and hardware for connection to Internet (I'm on cable modem, 
UPC is my provider).


I don't need an expensive one. Perhaps an anti-glare, anti-reflex screen 
is needed because I'll have to read a lot.


Thanks,
E.S.





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PCI: BIOS Bug: MCFG area at e0000000 is not E820-reserved

[Cassiel]

Hi you all,

I got this line in dmesg output and my PCI audio card (Terratec DMX 6fire)
not working at all.
Can someone tell me if this bug (a kernel bug probably,
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=480513) prevents PCI cards
from working? or my audio card has compatibility problems with recent
motherboards?

I recently updated my linux box to AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor
5200+ on an ASUS M3A motherboard, debian lenny and 2.6.24-1 kernel.

regards
raffaele

Iceweasel 3 and gopher?

[Peter Tynan]

I noted from a recent discussion on this list that iceweasel 3.0-rc2
has been made available in Sid and I was wondering what the plans are
for support of the gopher protocol in Iceweasel 3? I ask this because
support for the gopher protocol has been pulled from the core of
FireFox 3 and I was hoping that Debian are not going to make the same
(IMHO) mistake.

Peter


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Re: Fetchmail

[Jamie Griffin]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 02:52:07PM +0300, Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
> Isn't it possible to run fetchmail as root and then one process fetches  
> the mail of all users with help of ~/.fetchmail?
>
> If no, is there any script that executes daemon automatically for every  
> user that has .fetchmailrc?

using individual user ~/.fetchmailrc files is probably a safer and 
preferred way to use fetchmail. Running it as root obviously brings 
risks which could potentially compromise the root account. 

Have you tried just changing the setting 'enable daemon=yes' in the file 
/etc/default/fetchmail and rebooting which should trigger the daemon 
anyway?

Otherwise you could run a cron job to trigger the daemon and specify 
'set daemon 300' for example in your ~/.fetchmailrc file. 

Jamie


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Re: Quota - delete Single Entry

[URNIL FGBEZ]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

Mike Bird wrote:
> On Fri June 13 2008 18:07:47 URNIL FGBEZ wrote:
>> There is no possible way that there are still files owned by that user
>> because i use the following way to delete that account:
>> 1. userdel 1500
>> 2. rm -rf /srv/HOMEDIR
> 
> Please don't top post.
> 
> What did "find" show you?  There may be temp files, mail files
> (since you didn't use "userdel -r") and even deleted files.
> 
> Iff "find" shows no files belonging to user 1500, the
> quota accounting may be off.  Use quotacheck to fix it,
> preferable when the system is idle.
> 
> --Mike Bird
> 
> 
Problem solved -
thanks again for your help, next time i should look into the man pages
of userdel.
userdel -r does the magic i need :)
Kind Regards
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEAREDAAYFAkhTtW8ACgkQLMVLOR388SP/gQCdHx4J07k8mgOrtAD7FiP3yn3G
SrsAoKvD1yBzhVwLFXU+y2/EoH8PhvoQ
=X5XY
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Fetchmail

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

Jamie Griffin wrote:

# /etc/init.d/fetchmail restart
Restarting mail retriever agent: fetchmailfetchmail: no mailservers 
have  been specified.

 failed!

Did you run it as root? and have you entered all the required info in
/etc/fetchmailrc? 




Sorry, that took so long. :-( Had been busy.

* Yes I run '/etc/init.d/fetchmail restart' as root and fetchmail daemon  
has been set to run by SysV-init scripts.

* My /etc/fetchmailrc is empty
* /home/[USER_ACCOUNT]/.fetchmailrc has:
set postmaster [USER_ACCOUNT]
set bouncemail
set daemon 300

You should have the server information in /etc/fetchmailrc not 
~/.fetchmailrc if you want to run the program as root.


Jamie




Isn't it possible to run fetchmail as root and then one process fetches 
the mail of all users with help of ~/.fetchmail?


If no, is there any script that executes daemon automatically for every 
user that has .fetchmailrc?



Tero Mäntyvaara


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[Chris Bannister]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 10:51:06AM +0200, David wrote:
> Hi again list.
> 
> I'm going to reply to several mails at once. Please excuse the length,

Please don't do that. *You* can receive your mails in digest mode by
specifying it with some command to the list server, but PLEASE don't
enforce it on others.

There is already an extreme waste of bandwidth by people not trimming
their posts.

-- 
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Re: Fetchmail

[Jamie Griffin]

>>> # /etc/init.d/fetchmail restart
>>> Restarting mail retriever agent: fetchmailfetchmail: no mailservers 
>>> have  been specified.
>>>  failed!
>>
>> Did you run it as root? and have you entered all the required info in
>> /etc/fetchmailrc? 
>>
>>
> Sorry, that took so long. :-( Had been busy.
>
> * Yes I run '/etc/init.d/fetchmail restart' as root and fetchmail daemon  
> has been set to run by SysV-init scripts.
> * My /etc/fetchmailrc is empty
> * /home/[USER_ACCOUNT]/.fetchmailrc has:
>   set postmaster [USER_ACCOUNT]
>   set bouncemail
>   set daemon 300
>
You should have the server information in /etc/fetchmailrc not 
~/.fetchmailrc if you want to run the program as root.

Jamie


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POP3 server

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

I have used POP3 server now a few months, but I have forgot whitch one 
it was. :-/ How can I find out whitch server I am using? :-D



Tero Mäntyvaara


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Re: debian sid & gnome

[Florian Kulzer]

[ Please try to turn off the HTML part of your messages. ]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 14:18:40 +0800, Reeyarn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've come accoss a similar problem, that my apt-get or aptitude wanted to
> remove my gnome, gtk, etc. Almost ervery core module of gnome i think.(see
> attached for the result of apt-get autoremove -s)

[...]

I think you are missing one or more of the following metapackages:

gnome | The GNOME Desktop Environment, with extra components
gnome-core| The GNOME Desktop Environment -- essential 
components
gnome-core-devel  | The GNOME Desktop Environment -- development 
components
gnome-desktop-environment | The GNOME Desktop Environment
gnome-devel   | The GNOME Desktop Environment -- development tools
gnome-fifth-toe   | The GNOME Fifth Toe applications
gnome-office  | The GNOME Office suite
gnome-themes-extras   | various themes for the GNOME 2 desktop

The metapackages themselves are "empty", but they protect other packages
from autoremoval by depending on them.

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  Florian   |


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Re: Fetchmail

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

Jamie Griffin wrote:

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 06:21:25PM +0300, Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:

# /etc/init.d/fetchmail restart
Restarting mail retriever agent: fetchmailfetchmail: no mailservers have  
been specified.

 failed!


Did you run it as root? and have you entered all the required info in
/etc/fetchmailrc? 




Sorry, that took so long. :-( Had been busy.

* Yes I run '/etc/init.d/fetchmail restart' as root and fetchmail daemon 
has been set to run by SysV-init scripts.

* My /etc/fetchmailrc is empty
* /home/[USER_ACCOUNT]/.fetchmailrc has:
set postmaster [USER_ACCOUNT]
set bouncemail
set daemon 300

  plus all e-mail account information.


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Re: making bootup fsck more user-friendly

[David]

Hi again list.

I'm going to reply to several mails at once. Please excuse the length,
or let me know if separate mails is better netiquette.

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Johannes Wiedersich
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2008-06-13 13:38, David wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Johannes Wiedersich
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> read 'man tune2fs' for some tips for setting interval and mount count to
>>> something that better meets your needs.
>>
>> This isn't a solution for me. I want fsck to run regularly, but to
>> still have a way to by-pass it when I need to.  Making fsck run less
>> frequently will leave me with the same problem. eg every 100th boot I
>> will still have to wait 10-20 minutes before I can start using the PC,
>> which is a royal PITA.
>
> So basically you want to have the check without having to wait for the
> check to finish. I don't know, how you want this to be accomplished.
> Either the check runs automatically or you have to run it manually.
>

Like a later poster said, I just want the ability to defer it if I
need to boot up quickly this time. I don't have a problem with letting
the check run if I'm not in too much of a hurry. What would work best
for me is to have 2 abilities:

1) Defer the boot fsck until later

2) When I shut down the machine, have the option to fsck then (eg:
takes 20 minutes, but then shuts down).

I know this can be accomplished in Ubuntu (see my original post). But
I'd like a way to do it on Debian Unstable by only using software from
the repo :-)

>>> Ctrl-C worked without problems the last time I tried on my debian lenny.
>>>
>>
>> I tested this on 2 Sid boxes, both had the problem. In the past (with
>> Testing & Stable) hitting Ctrl-C will randomly either leave the
>> partition read-only, or will re-mount it in write mode.
>
> OK, I checked again. Ctrl-C works for /home but not for / . So, I guess
> you would have to move your data to another partition. I have a rather
> small / partition, so fsck is fast and I probably never have interrupted
> it up to now. My /home partition is large, takes a long time to fsck and
> I haven't had problems interrupting it in order to have it checked next
> time. Again, since the feature works for other partitions than / , I'd
> guess that there is a good reason why it isn't implemented for / .
> (Maybe I'm wrong. Is there someone out there who knows better?)
>

Thanks for discovering that. Does anyone know if it's documented?

My guess is that if fsck on / terminates for an unknown reason,
sysvinit thinks that it's safer to leave the drive in read-only mode
so a system administrator can check it, and retry the boot & fsck.
Like a less severe version of the prompt to go to single-user mode
when a serious problem is found during the scan. It would be nice if
it printed a message so we knew that this was it's intent...

Or, more likely, the logic for scanning /, and scanning all other
partitions is implemented separately, and only the logic for non-/
partitions has the ability to mount r/w after the user hits Ctrl+C.

I would like the *option* to interrupt scanning / (cleanly), and not
be forced to fsck it when it's inconveniant to me. My PC's
housekeeping needs aren't more important than me! :-)

I have more comments on this subject, see a later reply.

>>> Set your mount count and intervals apropriately for your needs. You
>>> could also fsck manually (shuttdown's -F option), whenever it suits you,
>>> eg. disable automatic checking and only check manually.
>>
>> This is a pain. I would need to find time when I'm not using the PC,
>> but still want it to be on, which is not often. I like to turn off my
>> PC when I'm not using it, and to not have to wait for it when I do
>> want to use it.
>
> You cannot reliably fsck / when the computer is on. It either has to be
> at boot time or else you have to boot from another / like from a rescue
> CD/DVD.
>

I don't mind it fscking, I mind it fscking when I have more important
things to do than wait for it to finish.

  - /sbin/shutdown allows the user to (any of these would help):
* Force a fsck during the restart (-rF), and then to shut down the 
 system.
>>> Does not work for me, because I want to shut down the computer
>>> completely, not just waste all that power with standby mode. I.e. if you
>>> want to turn off the power supply completely, shutdown is not enough,
>>> YOU have to switch off manually.
>>>
>>
>> I think this depends on hardware. Most of my boxes shut down
>> completely when I run 'shutdown -P'. But there are a few (maybe old
>> kernel) which go into stand-by mode even when I really want shutdown
>> to power it off.
>
> In my experience *any* computer will be in some kind of standby mode as
> long as there is no physical interruption to the power. Some power
> supplies don't have a 'physical switch', but that just means that they
> will always use a few watts of electricity

Re: Any isencrypted function available?

[Volkan YAZICI]

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008, buyoppy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is there any 'isencrypted 'function available on Debian which judges
> whether some data is encrypted or not?

Depends on what you mean by encryption. If you mean encryption via GPG,
see `file' command. OTOH, I can encrypt a plain text file via my own
ad-hoc algorithm and it'll still appear as a plain text file.


Regards.


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