dpkg-dev dependency problem

[komodo]

Hi

Since some upgrade, i think last week i have this problem 

-
acheron:~# aptitude full-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Reading extended state information
Initializing package states... Done
The following packages are BROKEN:
  pkg-kde-tools
1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 29.2kB of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  pkg-kde-tools: Breaks: dpkg-dev (< 1.15.3) but 1.15.2 is installed.
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

Remove the following packages:
kdelibs5-dev
kdemultimedia-dev
kdepimlibs5-dev
pkg-kde-tools

Score is -32
-

I can't find this behaviour on the net, so am i only one who have this 
problem ?
Is this bug or some misconfiguration on my side ?

Version 1.15.3 is only in the unstable, but i have testing.

Thanks for your help

Martin


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Re: Vserver networking: to make a forward only.

[lee]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 07:57:36PM +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:

> Meaning that all packets come to and back from - only for/from the
> v-server.  That the home machine will not be processing the packets.

In a way, that isn't possible because there has to be at least one
physical network card which would be installed on the physical host.

Logically, you need to give each OS that is running in a VM its own IP
address. You could also install a physical network card for each VM
and assign each VM its own card.

With each VM having its own IP address, the host the VMs are running
on isn't (logically) the recipient or sender of network traffic going
to a VM. The traffic would go to the IP address of the VM, not to the
IP address of the host.

I guess that's what you want --- but I don't know how secure that
is. It is also what you need to do in order for the VMs to have a
network connection. If they don't have each their own IP address,
there is no (good) way to decide which of the VMs is supposed to get
which network traffic.

> > > *filter  
> > Which firewall script are you using? There are some, like shorewall ...
> 
> It is my hand made script. Is it wrong?

Does it work? If it doesn't, it's probably wrong.

You can make your own firewall script if you want to, but it's, hmm,
tricky. I sort of did that once, but I was starting with an example
script that was accompanied with documentation and adapted that to
what was needed. This script and documentation were for learning how
to set up a firewall, and that's how I learned it and how I got an
understanding of what the firewall does and how it works.

But there are firewall scripts like shorewall and others that can make
it very simple to set up a firewall.

> > The related packages are probably dropped, as you have set. But
> > without more detailed information, I can only guess.
> 
> Which detailed info I should provide?

Like all the IP addresses and network interfaces involved, what ports
and IPs are allowed to be used by which source IPs to which
destinations.

Once you know that, you have done quite some of the work. If you write
it down, you can as well use the notation iptables uses, and when you
do that, you have most of your firewall.

However, I see two ways to make it easy:


a.) If you run Linux in the VMs, use shorewall (or another script) on
each VM and set the firewall up as is needed for that VM. Then
you can use shorewall on the host itself and set it up there
as needed.

b.) If you have another computer running Linux, you could use that as a
firewall for all the others. That's probably safer anyway.


In any case, if you have an internet connection via a router/firewall
you want to use with your VMs, you can be somewhat limited in what you
can do, depending on the capabilities of the router and the
capabilities of the software to deal with NAT. If you have a good
router, you can use that --- if you don't, connect the computer from
option b.) instead of the router. Then you might want to use
additional software to increase safety ...

> > It's probably because input and output are being accepted instead of
> > dropped.
> 
> That's right, but my question was, Why do I need to set ACCEPT for 
> INPUT/OUTPUT
> chains while all I want is FORWARD? - Why FORWARD seems to not function with
> dropped INPUT/OUTPUT?

Yeah, that is because there is nothing to forward when input and
output are dropped: You don't get to forward anything because the
traffic is dropped *before* you could forward it.

Unfortunately, I don't remember exactly how it worked --- the script I
learned from created its own tables to drop all traffic and then to
allow only the traffic that it wanted to allow. Hmmm ...

Yeah, I still have that:

-rw-rw-r-- 1 lee lee 760879 2003-03-15 05:17
/home/lee/infos/firewall/iptables-tutorial.html.tgz

You might be able to find it when googling for it, but I can mail it
to you if you want to. It might be somewhat out of date, but I found
it very helpful and understandable.

> > Don't you need to assign a network card --- or at least an IP address
> > --- to each of the different OSs you're running on the same computer
> > before you can apply firewall rules to them?
> 
> So I have: for home OS I have ip x.x.0.2 while for the v-server - x.x.1.1

Yeah, each OS/VM needs its own IP.

Are you sure that you can use x.x.0.x and x.x.1.x when there is only
one physical network card in the host? And is it a good idea to use
different network segments in this case?

> I want that those v-servers have networking.

Ok, did they have networking before you started setting up a firewall?
If not, that would be the first step. Once they have networking, you
can set up the firewalling.

> > If you want to set up a firewall from scratch, one way of doing it is
> > to drop all network traffic and then to make rules which only allow
> > traffic for those combinations of IPs, ports and protocols you want to
> > allow traffic for.
> 
> Does my script do

Re: To mirror a huge tree...

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 07:39:04PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> is it more efficient to use tar, rsync or "cp -r"?

cp -r

I assume that you need copy all the data. If you can avoid copying,
rsync can, of course be (much?) faster, depending on the saving.

However the mere work it ddoes for scanning the tree on both sides takes
extra time and memory.

>
> (Yes, I know that incremental backups would be faster with rsync. Also, 
> most all of these files are already compressed, so tar or rsync -z or -j 
> wouldn't help either.)
>
> With "cp -r" to an ext4 (with extents enabled) fs mounted on an external 
> USB hard drive, I'm getting a consistent 30MBps, which is half of 
> USB2.0's theoretical 480Mbps.

I suspect that this is the bottleneck here, anyway.

Data compression wouldn't have helped overcoming it, as you have to
decompress the data before it hits the USB bus.

>
> Thus, could I tweak a statistically significant more MBps using tar or 
> rsync?  Pre-fetching files or some such?  As it stands now, 88% of my 8GB 
> RAM is "cached".

Given that the write itself is the bottleneck, I'm not sure how much
this would help. It could slightly help to shorten the time, but the
latency of the proces will remain unchanged.

>
> Or is 30MBps about as good as I can get from the combination of the USB 
> software and hardware?

-- 
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http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
ICQ# 16849754 || friend


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Re: Re: Re: how to create again eth0

[lee]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 08:39:55AM +0100, abdelkader belahcene wrote:
> Yes thanks,
> It seems that the problem is loading module.
> It refuses to load the module,
> modprobe  b44  doesn't give any error,  but  lsmod |grep b44
> dones't give anything !!!

Yeah, insmod doesn't always print an error message when a module
isn't loaded. It will print one when it can't find the module one is
trying to load, though.

> the module is not loaded, why ???, the modules is there.
> the word "eth0"  depends on  loading or not of the modules ???!
> ifconfig  eth0  gives   no such device ??

Yeah, if you get eth0 (or eth1, eth2 ...) depends on two things:
Loading the right module(s) for the network card(s) you have and on
what udev does.

Udev will eventually give you an eth1 or eth2 for a network card, like
when you had eth0 for network card A, then you physically removed this
card and installed network card B: You'll get eth1 even if you have
only one network card. I'm not sure if that's a bug, but it should be
eth0 if you have only one card.

> I tried  this too:   removed the   75-persistent-net-generator.rules
> 70-persistent-net.rules  in /etc/udev/rules.d  ,  hoping that the udev
> tries to detect again the device, but  problem persists.
> Help please I don't understand

Don't mess with that ...

You simply don't have an eth0 or eth1 ... before you have the right
module loaded for the card.

ifconfig -a will show you all network cards you have; if it doesn't
show any or says "no such device", then there isn't any network card
available.

Perhaps you need a different module for the card you have, or the card
is turned off in the BIOS, or it's broken?

Which network card do you have? lspci might tell you.


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iRedMail - an enterprise-class Mailsystem for Debian

[Suno Ano]

Hi Folks,

I just wanted to tell you about iredmail, a fully fledged email system.
iredmail itself is a set of shell scripts used to install and configure
standard components available as .deb like for example postfix, dovecot,
clamav, etc.

I have tested the whole thing on Lenny -- non-virtualized boxes and also
within OpenVZ VEs (Virtual Environments). No problems whatsoever.


The main reason I think this is worth mentioning is that I, as many
others, have set up and configured mail systems over and over again in
the past simply because some "integrated" solution always just is not
the same as a bespoke tailored suit ... iredmail changed that simply
because it only uses well-tested and as .deb available stuff plus, after
installing things, one can do his fine tuning for any component (e.g.
postfix) as usual.

As a cherry on top thingy, there will be an Admin panel pretty soon --
sure, one could dive into various config files using TRAMP and IDO with
Emacs but then, maybe, a web interface is not that bad just in case
Emacs/Vim/etc. are not available for some arcane reason ... ;-]


A few links:

 - http://code.google.com/p/iredmail
 - http://code.google.com/p/iredmail/wiki/Main_Components
 - http://www.iredmail.org/forum/topic97-debian-openvz-iredmail.html
 - http://www.iredmail.org/forum/topic93-postgresql.html
 - 
http://www.iredmail.org/forum/topic87-iredadmin-feature-requests-webbased-iredmail-admin-console.html


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Re: dpkg-dev dependency problem

[Sven Joachim]

On 2009-07-16 08:58 +0200, komodo wrote:

> Since some upgrade, i think last week i have this problem 
>
> -
> acheron:~# aptitude full-upgrade
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Reading extended state information
> Initializing package states... Done
> The following packages are BROKEN:
>   pkg-kde-tools
> 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 29.2kB of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used.
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   pkg-kde-tools: Breaks: dpkg-dev (< 1.15.3) but 1.15.2 is installed.
> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
>
> Remove the following packages:
> kdelibs5-dev
> kdemultimedia-dev
> kdepimlibs5-dev
> pkg-kde-tools
>
> Score is -32
> -
>
> I can't find this behaviour on the net, so am i only one who have this 
> problem ?

No, this had been a common problem.  See http://bugs.debian.org/522183
for a short explanation.

> Is this bug or some misconfiguration on my side ?

Certainly not a misconfiguration; although #522183 has been claimed
fixed, there may still be a problem with the testing migration scripts.
Note that pkg-kde-tools does not depend on dpkg-dev, so it is possible
to install it, although that may not be an acceptable solution for you.

> Version 1.15.3 is only in the unstable, but i have testing.

You can either install dpkg-dev 1.15.3.1 by hand or refrain from
full-upgrades until it reaches testing, which should happen in a few
days.

Sven


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Re: dpkg-dev dependency problem

[komodo]

On Thursday 16 of July 2009 09:43:49 Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2009-07-16 08:58 +0200, komodo wrote:
> > Since some upgrade, i think last week i have this problem
> >
> > -
> > acheron:~# aptitude full-upgrade
> > Reading package lists... Done
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > Reading extended state information
> > Initializing package states... Done
> > The following packages are BROKEN:
> >   pkg-kde-tools
> > 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> > Need to get 29.2kB of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used.
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> >   pkg-kde-tools: Breaks: dpkg-dev (< 1.15.3) but 1.15.2 is installed.
> > The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
> >
> > Remove the following packages:
> > kdelibs5-dev
> > kdemultimedia-dev
> > kdepimlibs5-dev
> > pkg-kde-tools
> >
> > Score is -32
> > -
> >
> > I can't find this behaviour on the net, so am i only one who have this
> > problem ?
>
> No, this had been a common problem.  See http://bugs.debian.org/522183
> for a short explanation.

Are you sure with this bug ? :-)

>
> > Is this bug or some misconfiguration on my side ?
>
> Certainly not a misconfiguration; although #522183 has been claimed
> fixed, there may still be a problem with the testing migration scripts.
> Note that pkg-kde-tools does not depend on dpkg-dev, so it is possible
> to install it, although that may not be an acceptable solution for you.
>
> > Version 1.15.3 is only in the unstable, but i have testing.
>
> You can either install dpkg-dev 1.15.3.1 by hand or refrain from
> full-upgrades until it reaches testing, which should happen in a few
> days.

Ok then, i try to install dpkg-dev from unstable.

Thanks

>
> Sven



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Re: Config files for Gnome bluetooth-applet: where to locate them?

[Klistvud]

Dne, 09. 07. 2009 21:52:28 je Celejar napisal(a):
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 08:31:59 +0200
> Klistvud  wrote:
> 
> > Plz hlp!
> 
> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> 
> Celejar
> --
> mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email
> ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 

was: Nokia bluetooth set won't pair anymore.

In short: I'm looking for 
the *location of config files* where bluetooth-applet keeps its list of 
paired (bonded) devices. What I do know: it's NOT in /etc/bluetooth and 
it's NOT a per-user configuration (ALL the users on my system are 
affected). Grepping for a known good bluetooth device (a GSM phone that 
pairs OK) yielded insignificant results.

-- 
Certifiable Loonix User 481801


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Miles Bader]

Alex Samad  writes:
>> I don't understand what you mean about mono.  I don't think that I have
>> any mono stuff on my system, and IIUC, Debian won't install it unless
>
> isn't the new gnome package going to bring in mono as a default 

The "gnome" meta-package has "depends: tomboy | gnote", where gnote is
the C++ port of tomboy.

Since tomboy is listed first, I guess that's what it will drag in unless
you specifically choose gnote.

-Miles

-- 
Consult, v.i. To seek another's disapproval of a course already decided on.


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Jochen Schulz]

Alex Samad:
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 06:38:06PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
>> 
>> I don't understand what you mean about mono.  I don't think that I have
>> any mono stuff on my system, and IIUC, Debian won't install it unless
> 
> isn't the new gnome package going to bring in mono as a default 

Only if you select to install Gnome on installation. And that's not
exactly an option for people who prefer "nuts and bolts approaches"
anyway.

J.
-- 
The houses of parliament make me think of school bullies.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Anthony Campbell]

On 15 Jul 2009, Asumu Takikawa wrote:
> I had this same problem and using the following (in an .xsession in my case)
> solved the problem:
> 
> setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> 
> Cheers,
> Asumu Takikawa
> 

I'm using this as well and it works. I have it in .xinitrc. The only
thing is that I also have some xmodmap commands and the sequence seems
to be important for everything to work together. My .xinitrc:


setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
/usr/bin/xmodmap -e "clear Lock"
/usr/bin/xmodmap -e "keycode 108 = Alt_L"
/usr/bin/xmodmap -e "keycode 66 = Insert"
xset s 1200
xset -b
xsetroot -solid darkorchid
exec icewm-session-experimental



Anthony

-- 
Anthony Campbell - a...@acampbell.org.uk 
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
and sceptical articles)


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Re: editing protected fiels in a word document/remove password

[lee]

On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 10:10:12AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:

> Google "Microsoft Word password".  The "don't modify" locking is advisory
> only, like PDF locking.  Besides, it's from Microsoft.  Do you seriously
> expect it to work?  

It made the form useless in that it prevented me from filling it
out. That wasn't the purpose of the protection, so no, it didn't work
due to user-stupidity. Nothing helps against that ...

But how do you disable it?


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Bulgarian language

[Nedelcho Nedelchev]

Hi
 
I want to ask for Bulgarian language for debian. I bye computer with debian and 
I want to use Bulgarian language to write letters end to write in skype, write 
documents and etc. Please help me if you can.


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Andrei Popescu]

On Wed,15.Jul.09, 17:55:49, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> 
> I actually like HAL as it has relieved me of a great deal of tedium.  
> That said, I'm sure there are corner cases where it can be a pain.

http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/InputHotplugGuide has some 
explanation of why hal is needed.

>It
> does seem as though there is a strong sentiment against HAL from
> several users.  You might contact the Xorg developers and ask nicely
> for them to remove the dependency.

I don't think this is such a good idea. The Debian X Strike Force (Xorg 
maintainers) already received a lot of heat over this. Providing an 
alternative would be better. Anyway, see #515214.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Bulgarian language

[Andrei Popescu]

On Thu,16.Jul.09, 12:45:02, Nedelcho Nedelchev wrote:
> Hi
>  
> I want to ask for Bulgarian language for debian. I bye computer with 
> debian and I want to use Bulgarian language to write letters end to 
> write in skype, write documents and etc. Please help me if you can.

Run (as root):

dpkg-reconfigure locales

and choose to generate the locale bg_BG.UTF-8. Then make it the default 
local for your system (the next question) and restart your system.

Depending on the translations available for each application you might 
see Bulgarian texts. For some packages you need to install the language 
pack (ex. iceweasel-l10n-bg).

In order to get a Bulgarian keyboard layout you will need to run

dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

if you have Debian 5.0.x (Lenny) or

dpkg-reconfigure console-setup

if you have Debian testing (Squeeze).

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

On Wed,15.Jul.09, 17:55:49, Nate Bargmann wrote:
I actually like HAL as it has relieved me of a great deal of tedium.  
That said, I'm sure there are corner cases where it can be a pain.


http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/InputHotplugGuide has some 
explanation of why hal is needed.


Until now, HAL wasn't and will never be needed by me and many others. It 
is enforced per dependency now, but not needed.


The absence of stuff like HAL was what made me switch from Windows to 
Linux in the first place.


Why don't people, who like it, use the real Windows instead of turning 
Linux into it and forcing advanced users down to their level?



   It
does seem as though there is a strong sentiment against HAL from
several users.  You might contact the Xorg developers and ask nicely
for them to remove the dependency.


I don't think this is such a good idea. The Debian X Strike Force (Xorg 
maintainers) already received a lot of heat over this. Providing an 
alternative would be better. Anyway, see #515214.


Regards,
Andrei


Yes, an alternative would be to remove the dependency and make the HAL 
package optional again.



Dirk


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Re: Bulgarian language

[Jerome BENOIT]

Bonjour Nedelcho Nedelchev,

a good start may be here:

http://www.debian.org/international/Bulgarian


hth,
Jerome


Nedelcho Nedelchev wrote:

Hi
 
I want to ask for Bulgarian language for debian. I bye computer with debian and I want to use Bulgarian language to write letters end to write in skype, write documents and etc. Please help me if you can.





--
Jerome BENOIT
jgmbenoit_at_mailsnare_dot_net


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RE: connecting lenny to active directory

[Tym Rehm]

At first look your krb5.conf file looks wrong. 

Check out this link it has a very nice guide.
http://www.howtoforge.com/samba_ads_security_mode

CAPS are important in the krb5.conf file.

-Original Message-
From: shawn foisy [mailto:foi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:51 AM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: connecting lenny to active directory

Hi all,
I am a student intern here and I have been give a task of setting up a
linux server for the office, and am trying to get it set up with active
directory, but I keep getting this error when i try the command

net ads join -W metis -S domaincontroller -U myuser

ERROR:

Failed to join domain: Invalid configuration and configuration
modification was not requested

here are some modified config files

krb5.conf:

[libdefaults]
default_realm = METIS.ORG

# The following krb5.conf variables are only for MIT Kerberos.
krb4_config = /etc/krb.conf
krb4_realms = /etc/krb.realms
kdc_timesync = 1
ccache_type = 4
forwardable = true
proxiable = true

# The following encryption type specification will be used by MIT
Kerberos
# if uncommented.  In general, the defaults in the MIT Kerberos code are
# correct and overriding these specifications only serves to disable new
# encryption types as they are added, creating interoperability
problems.
#
# Thie only time when you might need to uncomment these lines and change
# the enctypes is if you have local software that will break on ticket
# caches containing ticket encryption types it doesn't know about (such
as
# old versions of Sun Java).

#default_tgs_enctypes = des3-hmac-sha1
#default_tkt_enctypes = des3-hmac-sha1
#permitted_enctypes = des3-hmac-sha1

# The following libdefaults parameters are only for Heimdal Kerberos.
v4_instance_resolve = false
v4_name_convert = {
host = {
rcmd = host
ftp = ftp
}
plain = {
something = something-else
}
}
fcc-mit-ticketflags = true

[realms]
METIS.ORG = {
kdc = dc1.metis.org 
kdc = dc2.metis.org 
kdc =dc3.metis.org
admin_server = dc1.metis.org 
}
[domain_realm]
   .metis.org = METIS.ORG

[login]
krb4_convert = true
krb4_get_tickets = true

smb.conf:

[global]
security = ads
password server = dc11.metis.org
encrypt passwords = yes
workgroup = METIS
realm = METIS.ORG
netbios name = temporay
idmap uid = 1-2000
idmap gid = 1000-2000
winbind enum users = yes
winbind enum groups = yes
winbind use default domain = yes


any help would be apreciated

thanks

Shawn Foisy
IT STEP Student
Metis Nation of Alberta






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How to get all dependent source packages

[sha liu]

Hi everyone,
  What I want to do is:
  If I want to build a package(for example dpkg) from source, how
should I recursively get all the dependent *source* packages of it?
This means not only the direct dependency of the package but also the
dependent of the dependent...I know "apt-get build-dep" will only
*install* the dependent *binary* packages.
  I want to do this because I need to build dpkg on a CLFS system
(think it as a minimal linux system without debianization), and it's
crazy to download all dependent source packages of dpkg, right?
--
Best,
Sha Liu

Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Thierry Chatelet]

On Thursday 16 July 2009 12:50:22 Dirk wrote:

> Why don't people, who like it, use the real Windows instead of turning
> Linux into it and forcing advanced users down to their level?
>
>
> Dirk

What level are you taking about? This will look quiet insulting to many people 
not only using debian to the best of their knowlegde, but also to Windows 
users, who dont need to be treated as such, they already suffer of having to 
use it.
Thierry


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Re: Bulgarian language

[Dirk Neumann]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:45:02 +0300 (EEST)
Nedelcho Nedelchev  wrote:

> Hi
>  
> I want to ask for Bulgarian language for debian. I bye computer with debian 
> and I want to use Bulgarian language to write letters end to write in skype, 
> write documents and etc. Please help me if you can.

In Lenny, I cannot find a package like texlive-lang-bulgarian (but
texlive-lang-cyrillic), and I found a .sty-file "bulgarian".

Dirk.


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Thierry Chatelet wrote:

On Thursday 16 July 2009 12:50:22 Dirk wrote:


Why don't people, who like it, use the real Windows instead of turning
Linux into it and forcing advanced users down to their level?


Dirk


What level are you taking about? This will look quiet insulting to many people 
not only using debian to the best of their knowlegde, but also to Windows 
users, who dont need to be treated as such, they already suffer of having to 
use it.

Thierry




Awww... what about the feelings of people who, since months now, want 
HAL to be reduced to a option again and who get ignored for no reason?



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Nate Bargmann]

* Andrei Popescu  [2009 Jul 16 06:05 -0500]:

> > does seem as though there is a strong sentiment against HAL from
> > several users.  You might contact the Xorg developers and ask nicely
> > for them to remove the dependency.
> 
> I don't think this is such a good idea. The Debian X Strike Force (Xorg 
> maintainers) already received a lot of heat over this. Providing an 
> alternative would be better. Anyway, see #515214.

Note, I specifically mentioned the Xorg developers--Free Desktop
Project--not the X Strike Force folks.  So, yes, my suggestion of who
to discuss this with *is* a good idea.

- Nate >>

-- 
 Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB  |  Successfully Microsoft
  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
 http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/   |  "Debian, the choice of
 My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation!"
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Nate Bargmann]

* Dirk  [2009 Jul 16 07:07 -0500]:
> Thierry Chatelet wrote:
> >On Thursday 16 July 2009 12:50:22 Dirk wrote:
> >
> >>Why don't people, who like it, use the real Windows instead of turning
> >>Linux into it and forcing advanced users down to their level?
> >>
> >>
> >>Dirk
> >
> >What level are you taking about? This will look quiet insulting to
> >many people not only using debian to the best of their knowlegde,
> >but also to Windows users, who dont need to be treated as such,
> >they already suffer of having to use it.
> >Thierry
> >
> >
> 
> Awww... what about the feelings of people who, since months now,
> want HAL to be reduced to a option again and who get ignored for no
> reason?

Since you're so advanced, it should be little trouble for you to roll
an alternative package that doesn't have the HAL dependency.  This
little rant of yours seems to have little basis in logic.  As near as I
can tell the Linux HAL is much different and far more useful than
whatever MS Windows does.

You would have much more credibility in this thread if you provided
solid technical reasons why HAL is bad rather than stomping your feet
while saying "I don't like it!"  Please provide a technical reason why
HAL is unacceptable.

- Nate >>

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  Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @  | free since January 1998.
 http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/   |  "Debian, the choice of
 My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation!"
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

You would have much more credibility in this thread if you provided
solid technical reasons why HAL is bad rather than stomping your feet
while saying "I don't like it!"  Please provide a technical reason why
HAL is unacceptable.


HAL causes enough technical problems and negative side-effects. Just 
Google for that.


But don't shift the focus away to "Is there a technical problem?" while 
the real problem is the /whole idea/ of HAL.


Long time Linux users require choice, transparency, and CONTROL.

HAL is the complete opposite and now it is needlessly enforced per 
dependency in Debian.


One "Hardware Abstraction Layer" (the Linux Kernel) should be enough.

People who want more than one can install Ubuntu which is a good 
distribution.



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Sjoerd Hardeman]

Dirk schreef:

You would have much more credibility in this thread if you provided
solid technical reasons why HAL is bad rather than stomping your feet
while saying "I don't like it!"  Please provide a technical reason why
HAL is unacceptable.


HAL causes enough technical problems and negative side-effects. Just 
Google for that.


But don't shift the focus away to "Is there a technical problem?" while 
the real problem is the /whole idea/ of HAL.


Long time Linux users require choice, transparency, and CONTROL.

HAL is the complete opposite and now it is needlessly enforced per 
dependency in Debian.


One "Hardware Abstraction Layer" (the Linux Kernel) should be enough.

People who want more than one can install Ubuntu which is a good 
distribution.
I think the point Nate is making is that you can just configure X as not 
to use HAL (see the link in one of the previous mails). If you also not 
want hal installed, just make a "nohal" dummy package with a 
"provides:hal" attribute set.
Yet, the X.org dev's (not the debian devs) are moving to using hal for 
xorg (at least, that's my understanding). So that's why debian is too. 
Discussing there makes more sense.
And, finally, you haven't answered the question on what's wrong with 
hal. I'm using it without problems, and even still feel in control when 
needed by altering the .fdi files in /usr/share/hal. So no, I don't see 
the problem, please explain.


Sjoerd



Dirk







signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:

Dirk schreef:

You would have much more credibility in this thread if you provided
solid technical reasons why HAL is bad rather than stomping your feet
while saying "I don't like it!"  Please provide a technical reason why
HAL is unacceptable.


HAL causes enough technical problems and negative side-effects. Just 
Google for that.


But don't shift the focus away to "Is there a technical problem?" 
while the real problem is the /whole idea/ of HAL.


Long time Linux users require choice, transparency, and CONTROL.

HAL is the complete opposite and now it is needlessly enforced per 
dependency in Debian.


One "Hardware Abstraction Layer" (the Linux Kernel) should be enough.

People who want more than one can install Ubuntu which is a good 
distribution.
I think the point Nate is making is that you can just configure X as not 
to use HAL (see the link in one of the previous mails). If you also not 
want hal installed, just make a "nohal" dummy package with a 
"provides:hal" attribute set.


This is very convenient to say, right? Of course, one can make a dummy 
package and spend his time searching Google and this mailing list for 
hints to make X11 work again without HAL. But it turns out to be a 
moving target and a waste of time with every update of the distribution.


I've done so. More than once. And that is that.

Yet, the X.org dev's (not the debian devs) are moving to using hal for 
xorg (at least, that's my understanding). So that's why debian is too. 
Discussing there makes more sense.


I did. According to them DeviceKit is going to replace HAL.
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DeviceKit

Why do they, /themself/, see a need to replace HAL? And will devicekit 
be more acceptable to people who care more than even I do?


Will it be a choice?

And, finally, you haven't answered the question on what's wrong with 
hal. I'm using it without problems, and even still feel in control when 
needed by altering the .fdi files in /usr/share/hal. So no, I don't see 
the problem, please explain.


Geeez... the problem is that it was promoted to a requirement for 
running a Debian Desktop while there was no need for it in the first 
place with alternatives like Ubuntu or Windows(!) at hand.


Another problem are the people who think they need to turn Linux into 
something like a Windows to appeal to people who don't even care/know 
enough about which OS they use. By this HAL is neglecting the best part 
of Linux for the sake of "Linux, ready for the desktop?" headlines on 
Slashdot.



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Avi Greenbury]

Dirk wrote:
Geeez... the problem is that it was promoted to a requirement for 
running a Debian Desktop while there was no need for it in the first 
place with alternatives like Ubuntu or Windows(!) at hand.


Another problem are the people who think they need to turn Linux into 
something like a Windows to appeal to people who don't even care/know 
enough about which OS they use. By this HAL is neglecting the best part 
of Linux for the sake of "Linux, ready for the desktop?" headlines on 
Slashdot.


What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?

You keep coming back to this thing of being like Windows. That, in and 
of itself, is not a bad thing (there are at least a few things that 
Windows got right). It is a bad thing if other things are negatively 
affected by being like Windows.


You've not yet explained what these negative effects are. Could you 
please do so without reference to Windows or Ubuntu?


--
Avi Greenbury
http://aviswebsite.co.uk ;)
http://aviswebsite.co.uk/asking-questions


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[John Hasler]

Sjoerd writes:
> And, finally, you haven't answered the question on what's wrong with
> hal. I'm using it without problems, and even still feel in control when
> needed by altering the .fdi files in /usr/share/hal. So no, I don't see
> the problem, please explain.

Some of us simply don't need it.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Avi Greenbury wrote:

Dirk wrote:
Geeez... the problem is that it was promoted to a requirement for 
running a Debian Desktop while there was no need for it in the first 
place with alternatives like Ubuntu or Windows(!) at hand.


Another problem are the people who think they need to turn Linux into 
something like a Windows to appeal to people who don't even care/know 
enough about which OS they use. By this HAL is neglecting the best 
part of Linux for the sake of "Linux, ready for the desktop?" 
headlines on Slashdot.


What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?


The complete absence of automation if I choose not to want/need it.

The ability to mount devices myself, or not.

The ability to do what I want.

You keep coming back to this thing of being like Windows. That, in and 
of itself, is not a bad thing

> (there are at least a few things that
Windows got right). It is a bad thing if other things are negatively 
affected by being like Windows.


You've not yet explained what these negative effects are. Could you 
please do so without reference to Windows or Ubuntu?




Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed 
Debian without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem 
(pick one from this list: http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).


So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.

The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand how 
to alter the HAL configuration while it should be possible not to 
install HAL in the first place if it wasn't made a needlessly 
requirement(!) for running a Debian desktop.


Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's 
to battle choice?



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Jeff Soules]

> Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's to
> battle choice?

I'm not a HAL fanboy.  In fact, I couldn't care less.  From the
descriptions, it sounds like HAL (like every other piece of software
ever written) solves some problems while potentially creating others.
Such is life.

But your argument against HAL is:

> Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed Debian
> without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem [...snip...]
> The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand how to
> alter the HAL configuration

Or basically:

"What if I have to use HAL, and then what if HAL breaks?  I might have
to learn how to fix it!"

...so?
Technology moves forward.  You do have a choice; I mean, if you liked
you could even just run XFree86 on a Potato box, or something.  But
did you start using Debian because you dislike learning new things?
It's unpleasant to have your old tools taken away, but surely you have
more concrete objections than what you've voiced so far?
I'd love to agree with you.  I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm
ready to be convinced.  But I'm afraid that right now you're coming
across as yelling at HAL to get off your lawn, and that's probably not
the strongest case you could make.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Dirk wrote:
>> What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?
>
> The complete absence of automation if I choose not to want/need it.
>
> The ability to mount devices myself, or not.
>
> The ability to do what I want.
>
>> You've not yet explained what these negative effects are. Could you please
>> do so without reference to Windows or Ubuntu?
>>
>
> Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed Debian
> without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem (pick one from
> this list: http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).
>
> So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.
>
> The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand how to
> alter the HAL configuration while it should be possible not to install HAL
> in the first place if it wasn't made a needlessly requirement(!) for running
> a Debian desktop.
>
> Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's to
> battle choice?
>
>
> Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Jeff Soules wrote:

Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's to
battle choice?


I'm not a HAL fanboy.  In fact, I couldn't care less.  From the
descriptions, it sounds like HAL (like every other piece of software
ever written) solves some problems while potentially creating others.
Such is life.

But your argument against HAL is:


Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed Debian
without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem [...snip...]
The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand how to
alter the HAL configuration


Or basically:

"What if I have to use HAL, and then what if HAL breaks?  I might have
to learn how to fix it!"

...so?
Technology moves forward.  You do have a choice; I mean, if you liked
you could even just run XFree86 on a Potato box, or something.  But
did you start using Debian because you dislike learning new things?
It's unpleasant to have your old tools taken away, but surely you have
more concrete objections than what you've voiced so far?
I'd love to agree with you.  I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm
ready to be convinced.  But I'm afraid that right now you're coming
across as yelling at HAL to get off your lawn, and that's probably not
the strongest case you could make.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Dirk wrote:

What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?

The complete absence of automation if I choose not to want/need it.

The ability to mount devices myself, or not.

The ability to do what I want.


You've not yet explained what these negative effects are. Could you please
do so without reference to Windows or Ubuntu?


Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed Debian
without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem (pick one from
this list: http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).

So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.

The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand how to
alter the HAL configuration while it should be possible not to install HAL
in the first place if it wasn't made a needlessly requirement(!) for running
a Debian desktop.

Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's to
battle choice?


Dirk





I start to wonder how much words and effort the actual package 
maintainers would use to avoid turning a dependency back into a 
recommendation when the users already have such a mindset.


Poor Linux.


Dirk


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paraview and hdf5 files

[Micha Feigin]

I tried installing paraview under debian. According to the documentation and
the options in the debian/rules file (I also tried the source) it is supposed
to handle hdf5 files. I tried creating a simple hdf5 file in matlab to open in
paraview, but it doesn't seem to recognize the file.

Any idea on how to get the supposedly existing hdf5 support working?

Thanks


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ldapsearch -- troubles connecting to LDAP server (SASL config?)

[w...@serensoft.com]

Hello Debianistas!

We're a bit new to the LDAP world and are having trouble configuring a
connection to the LDAP server.

Using "ldapsearch" as a diagnostic tool, here's what we are getting:

# ldapsearch -h 10.3.1.37
SASL/EXTERNAL authentication started
ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Unknown authentication method (-6)

So we need a username/password pair to connect then, right? We've
figured out how to specify the password, but not a username:

# ldapsearch -x -h 10.3.1.37  -W -X u:ldapuser
ldapsearch: -X incompatible with authentication choice

# ldapsearch -x -h 10.3.1.37  -W -U ldapuser
ldapsearch: incompatible previous authentication choice

As you can see, the manpage seems to be assuming some background
information we don't know yet. :) And googling turned up some
questions with overlap to ours here, but the answers don't appear to
be posted in their entirety.

:(

Any pointers welcome -- thanks!


# ldapsearch -x -h 10.3.1.37  -W
Enter LDAP Password:
# extended LDIF
#
# LDAPv3
# base <> (default) with scope subtree
# filter: (objectclass=*)
# requesting: ALL
#

# search result
search: 2
result: 32 No such object
text: 208D: NameErr: DSID-031001A8, problem 2001 (NO_OBJECT), data 0, bes
 t match of:
''

# numResponses: 1



-- 
will trillich
"Tis the set of the sails / And not the gales / That tells the way we
go." -- Ella Wheeler Wilcox


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Re: sha1summ of complete directory?

[Eric Gerlach]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 07:36:24AM -0700, Todd A. Jacobs wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 07:30:19PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> 
> > How would one go about computing a *single* hash value for a complete
> > directory tree?
> 
> You might want to look at how git does this. As I understand it, git
> stores hashes of trees, so the implementation may help you.

Not really... the hash git indexes with is that of the compressed object (which
is either a blob, tree, or commit).  Tree and commit objects point at other
objects (which are also stored by hash).  Blobs are the files themselves.

More info:
http://www.gitready.com/beginner/2009/02/17/how-git-stores-your-data.html
http://eagain.net/articles/git-for-computer-scientists/

Cheers,

-- 
Eric Gerlach, Network Administrator
Federation of Students
University of Waterloo
p: (519) 888-4567 x36329
e: egerl...@feds.uwaterloo.ca


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Jochen Schulz]

Dirk:
> 
> Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed  
> Debian without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem  
> (pick one from this list: 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).

Previously, you said not only HAL itself is the problem, but the *idea*
behind it. I have no reason to doubt that HAL isn't necessarily the best
implementation of the idea but that doesn't mean the whole idea is bad.

> So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.
> 
> The answers will very likely force(!) me(!)

Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.

> to learn to understand how  
> to alter the HAL configuration while it should be possible not to  
> install HAL in the first place if it wasn't made a needlessly  
> requirement(!) for running a Debian desktop.

Previously, it was required to know how to edit xorg.conf and how to
change (e.g.) the keyboard layout for virtual terminals. Now you don't
need that anymore, but you are required to configure system wide
defaults for both the console and X. I fail to see how the situation has
become worse.

> Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's  
> to battle choice?

Actually, I couldn't care less about HAL. I am just asking myself
whether the X.org devs battle choice or whether you are battling
progress.

J.
-- 
If all my friends had Playstations I would buy a Nintendo to prove my
individuality.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Description: Digital signature

Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Dirk wrote:

Jeff Soules wrote:
Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who 
want's to

battle choice?


I'm not a HAL fanboy.  In fact, I couldn't care less.  From the
descriptions, it sounds like HAL (like every other piece of software
ever written) solves some problems while potentially creating others.
Such is life.

But your argument against HAL is:

Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed 
Debian
without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem 
[...snip...]
The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand 
how to

alter the HAL configuration


Or basically:

"What if I have to use HAL, and then what if HAL breaks?  I might have
to learn how to fix it!"

...so?
Technology moves forward.  You do have a choice; I mean, if you liked
you could even just run XFree86 on a Potato box, or something.  But
did you start using Debian because you dislike learning new things?
It's unpleasant to have your old tools taken away, but surely you have
more concrete objections than what you've voiced so far?
I'd love to agree with you.  I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm
ready to be convinced.  But I'm afraid that right now you're coming
across as yelling at HAL to get off your lawn, and that's probably not
the strongest case you could make.



HAL is not "technology moving forward".

It is a project dedicated to taking away the right to do what you want.

And the persistance of not understanding this that I face here is just 
sad. You people don't seem to know what door you leave open here and how 
it could affect the future and usability of Linux in a negative way.


Isn't one trainwreck of an operating system enough? Do we really need to 
turn Linux into another trainwreck at all costs to attract more users 
from trainwreck #1?



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Jeff Soules]

> HAL is not "technology moving forward".
>
> It is a project dedicated to taking away the right to do what you want.

I'm sorry, your argument is "HAL hates freedom?"  Seriously?  You
believe there is an entire team of malicious devs who've devoted their
weekends to oppressing your choice of mouse buttons?

> And the persistance of not understanding this that I face here is just sad.
> You people don't seem to know what door you leave open here and how it could
> affect the future and usability of Linux in a negative way.

All right, I'll bite.  How specifically could it affect the future and
usability of Linux in a negative way?  What disasters might happen,
what door are we leaving open here?  What does HAL do that you don't
like?

You can't be too upset with us for not understanding that when you've
made very little effort to explain it (beyond "I might have to learn
how to fix it").


On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Dirk wrote:
> Dirk wrote:
>>
>> Jeff Soules wrote:

 Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's
 to
 battle choice?
>>>
>>> I'm not a HAL fanboy.  In fact, I couldn't care less.  From the
>>> descriptions, it sounds like HAL (like every other piece of software
>>> ever written) solves some problems while potentially creating others.
>>> Such is life.
>>>
>>> But your argument against HAL is:
>>>
 Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed
 Debian
 without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem
 [...snip...]
 The answers will very likely force(!) me(!) to learn to understand how
 to
 alter the HAL configuration
>>>
>>> Or basically:
>>>
>>> "What if I have to use HAL, and then what if HAL breaks?  I might have
>>> to learn how to fix it!"
>>>
>>> ...so?
>>> Technology moves forward.  You do have a choice; I mean, if you liked
>>> you could even just run XFree86 on a Potato box, or something.  But
>>> did you start using Debian because you dislike learning new things?
>>> It's unpleasant to have your old tools taken away, but surely you have
>>> more concrete objections than what you've voiced so far?
>>> I'd love to agree with you.  I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm
>>> ready to be convinced.  But I'm afraid that right now you're coming
>>> across as yelling at HAL to get off your lawn, and that's probably not
>>> the strongest case you could make.
>>>
>
> HAL is not "technology moving forward".
>
> It is a project dedicated to taking away the right to do what you want.
>
> And the persistance of not understanding this that I face here is just sad.
> You people don't seem to know what door you leave open here and how it could
> affect the future and usability of Linux in a negative way.
>
> Isn't one trainwreck of an operating system enough? Do we really need to
> turn Linux into another trainwreck at all costs to attract more users from
> trainwreck #1?
>
>
> Dirk
>


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Jochen Schulz wrote:

Dirk:
Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed  
Debian without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem  
(pick one from this list: 
http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).


Previously, you said not only HAL itself is the problem, but the *idea*
behind it. I have no reason to doubt that HAL isn't necessarily the best
implementation of the idea but that doesn't mean the whole idea is bad.


So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.

The answers will very likely force(!) me(!)


Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.


You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?

To downgrade or to even switch whole distributions because of a single 
stubborn package maintainer?


How about that package maintainer just turns a dependency back into a 
recommendation to make /everyone/ happy? (Did I suggest that before?)


to learn to understand how  
to alter the HAL configuration while it should be possible not to  
install HAL in the first place if it wasn't made a needlessly  
requirement(!) for running a Debian desktop.


Previously, it was required to know how to edit xorg.conf and how to
change (e.g.) the keyboard layout for virtual terminals. Now you don't
need that anymore, but you are required to configure system wide
defaults for both the console and X. I fail to see how the situation has
become worse.


"Now you don't need that anymore" ...because you're /forced/ to install HAL.

Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who want's  
to battle choice?


Actually, I couldn't care less about HAL. I am just asking myself
whether the X.org devs battle choice or whether you are battling
progress.

J.


I don't care of the "progress" that comes with HAL. Because I don't want 
to be forced to install it. I DON'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO INSTALL HAL 
because Linux works fine without a 2nd "Hardware Abstraction Layer".



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Jeff Soules wrote:

HAL is not "technology moving forward".

It is a project dedicated to taking away the right to do what you want.


I'm sorry, your argument is "HAL hates freedom?"  Seriously?  You
believe there is an entire team of malicious devs who've devoted their
weekends to oppressing your choice of mouse buttons?


And the persistance of not understanding this that I face here is just sad.
You people don't seem to know what door you leave open here and how it could
affect the future and usability of Linux in a negative way.


All right, I'll bite.  How specifically could it affect the future and
usability of Linux in a negative way?  What disasters might happen,
what door are we leaving open here?  What does HAL do that you don't
like?


It takes away my right to do what I want. And it does so because its 
installation is enforced per dependency.


I can imagine making Linux safer to use for beginners by having a daemon 
in the background running that overwrites changed config files with 
default values to prevent clueless people from trashing their system.


That daemon could be enforced as a dependency of the Linux Standard Base 
to ensure less questions like "Help! My Linux doesn't work anymore." in 
this mailing list.


That would be very convenient and to hell with people who don't need it.


You can't be too upset with us for not understanding that when you've
made very little effort to explain it (beyond "I might have to learn
how to fix it").


It is not: "I might have to learn how to fix it"

It is: "I can't deinstall it even though it could be possible"



Dirk


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Re: Vserver networking: to make a forward only. : a comment

[Paul E Condon]

On 2009-07-16_01:08:08, lee wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 07:57:36PM +0700, Sthu Deus wrote:
> 
> > Meaning that all packets come to and back from - only for/from the
> > v-server.  That the home machine will not be processing the packets.
> 
> In a way, that isn't possible because there has to be at least one
> physical network card which would be installed on the physical host.
> 
> Logically, you need to give each OS that is running in a VM its own IP
> address. You could also install a physical network card for each VM
> and assign each VM its own card.
> 

I have no practical experience on VM, but it occurs to me that if one
can implement a virtual host, one can also implement virtual lan cards,
and a virtual '192.168.0.0-type' network entirely with the VM server.
Then use net-address-translation of the several virtual hosts, and have
one virtual host serve as the translator and actually manage the single
real network card for communication that is 'outside of the box' ;-)

I could not begin to advise you on how to actually DO this. I am just
playing with ideas. I can well imagine that actually doing this is vastly
more complicated than this quick note makes sound.

Hope this is at least a little amusing as in idea...



> With each VM having its own IP address, the host the VMs are running
> on isn't (logically) the recipient or sender of network traffic going
> to a VM. The traffic would go to the IP address of the VM, not to the
> IP address of the host.
> 
> I guess that's what you want --- but I don't know how secure that
> is. It is also what you need to do in order for the VMs to have a
> network connection. If they don't have each their own IP address,
> there is no (good) way to decide which of the VMs is supposed to get
> which network traffic.
> 
> > > > *filter  
> > > Which firewall script are you using? There are some, like shorewall ...
> > 
> > It is my hand made script. Is it wrong?
> 
> Does it work? If it doesn't, it's probably wrong.
> 
> You can make your own firewall script if you want to, but it's, hmm,
> tricky. I sort of did that once, but I was starting with an example
> script that was accompanied with documentation and adapted that to
> what was needed. This script and documentation were for learning how
> to set up a firewall, and that's how I learned it and how I got an
> understanding of what the firewall does and how it works.
> 
> But there are firewall scripts like shorewall and others that can make
> it very simple to set up a firewall.
> 
> > > The related packages are probably dropped, as you have set. But
> > > without more detailed information, I can only guess.
> > 
> > Which detailed info I should provide?
> 
> Like all the IP addresses and network interfaces involved, what ports
> and IPs are allowed to be used by which source IPs to which
> destinations.
> 
> Once you know that, you have done quite some of the work. If you write
> it down, you can as well use the notation iptables uses, and when you
> do that, you have most of your firewall.
> 
> However, I see two ways to make it easy:
> 
> 
> a.) If you run Linux in the VMs, use shorewall (or another script) on
> each VM and set the firewall up as is needed for that VM. Then
> you can use shorewall on the host itself and set it up there
> as needed.
> 
> b.) If you have another computer running Linux, you could use that as a
> firewall for all the others. That's probably safer anyway.
> 
> 
> In any case, if you have an internet connection via a router/firewall
> you want to use with your VMs, you can be somewhat limited in what you
> can do, depending on the capabilities of the router and the
> capabilities of the software to deal with NAT. If you have a good
> router, you can use that --- if you don't, connect the computer from
> option b.) instead of the router. Then you might want to use
> additional software to increase safety ...
> 
> > > It's probably because input and output are being accepted instead of
> > > dropped.
> > 
> > That's right, but my question was, Why do I need to set ACCEPT for 
> > INPUT/OUTPUT
> > chains while all I want is FORWARD? - Why FORWARD seems to not function with
> > dropped INPUT/OUTPUT?
> 
> Yeah, that is because there is nothing to forward when input and
> output are dropped: You don't get to forward anything because the
> traffic is dropped *before* you could forward it.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't remember exactly how it worked --- the script I
> learned from created its own tables to drop all traffic and then to
> allow only the traffic that it wanted to allow. Hmmm ...
> 
> Yeah, I still have that:
> 
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 lee lee 760879 2003-03-15 05:17
> /home/lee/infos/firewall/iptables-tutorial.html.tgz
> 
> You might be able to find it when googling for it, but I can mail it
> to you if you want to. It might be somewhat out of date, but I found
> it very helpful and understandable.
> 
> > > Don't you need to assign a network card --- or at least an

Re: ldapsearch -- troubles connecting to LDAP server (SASL config?)

[David A. Parker]

w...@serensoft.com wrote:

Hello Debianistas!

We're a bit new to the LDAP world and are having trouble configuring a
connection to the LDAP server.

Using "ldapsearch" as a diagnostic tool, here's what we are getting:

# ldapsearch -h 10.3.1.37
SASL/EXTERNAL authentication started
ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Unknown authentication method (-6)

So we need a username/password pair to connect then, right? We've
figured out how to specify the password, but not a username:

# ldapsearch -x -h 10.3.1.37  -W -X u:ldapuser
ldapsearch: -X incompatible with authentication choice

# ldapsearch -x -h 10.3.1.37  -W -U ldapuser
ldapsearch: incompatible previous authentication choice

As you can see, the manpage seems to be assuming some background
information we don't know yet. :) And googling turned up some
questions with overlap to ours here, but the answers don't appear to
be posted in their entirety.

:(

Any pointers welcome -- thanks!


# ldapsearch -x -h 10.3.1.37  -W
Enter LDAP Password:
# extended LDIF
#
# LDAPv3
# base <> (default) with scope subtree
# filter: (objectclass=*)
# requesting: ALL
#

# search result
search: 2
result: 32 No such object
text: 208D: NameErr: DSID-031001A8, problem 2001 (NO_OBJECT), data 0, bes
 t match of:
''

# numResponses: 1





You need to specify the username as part of the bind DN using the -D option:

ldapsearch -h ldap.example.com -b "" -D 
"cn=," -W 


- Dave

--

Dave Parker
Utica College
Integrated Information Technology Services
(315) 792-3229
Registered Linux User #408177


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Re: sha1summ of complete directory?

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <20090716151953.ge4...@wks0082.feds.uwaterloo.ca>, Eric Gerlach wrote:
>On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 07:36:24AM -0700, Todd A. Jacobs wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 06, 2009 at 07:30:19PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> > How would one go about computing a *single* hash value for a complete
>> > directory tree?
>>
>> You might want to look at how git does this. As I understand it, git
>> stores hashes of trees, so the implementation may help you.
>
>Not really... the hash git indexes with is that of the compressed object
> (which is either a blob, tree, or commit).

Actually, I'm fairly sure it hashes the uncompressed object (now[1]), but 
I'd have to dig in to the source code to be sure.

> Tree and commit objects point
> at other objects (which are also stored by hash).  Blobs are the files
> themselves.

That is one way of calculating a single hash for a complete directory tree.  
The tree is identified by it's hash, which verifies the contents.  The 
contents identify the "pointed to" objects by hash, which verifies their 
contents.  Etc.

The hash/sum calculated has the same verification properties as a single-
file data-only hash.  It *might* not be as cryptographically strong, but 
that would be a bit surprising and I've seen no papers/pages verifying or 
refuting it's strength.[2]
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[1] There was a small period of time during Linus's maintainership of git 
that it hashed differently than it does now.  I can't recall why or when it 
was changed.

[2] Other than the fact that it uses a 128-bit SHA-1 hash and that *may* be 
getting too weak to be considered cryptographically secure in the near 
future.  Using SHA-2 is probably better, and you shouldn't lose much 
strength by truncating at 128-bits if you need that size specifically, but 
git doesn't support that.  Hopefully SHA-3 will be out before it matters, 
which means git can switch to that.[3]

[3] If they ever decide to switch, it will probably be painful.  They might 
not ever switch, since I don't think that resistance against attackers was 
the intent, just "identification" and resistance to random corruption.  (CVS 
and SVN could be silently corrupted for years and it was virtually 
impossible to tell; that doesn't happen to git repositories.)


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Re: To mirror a huge tree...

[Paul E Condon]

On 2009-07-15_23:53:27, ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:
>  David Christensen  wrote:
> > Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > ... external USB hard drive, I'm getting a consistent 30MBps,
> > > ... is 30MBps about as good as I can get from the combination of the
> > > USB software and hardware?
> >
> > 30 MB/s is good for USB. You need Firewire, eSATA, or an internal drive
> > to go faster.
> 
> :)
> 
> I've been a big FW fan for many years.  My backups, though, have only been 
> (because of compression) in the 70-85GB range.
> 
> But this mirror was 630GB, and along around 600GB, the sbp2 driver went 
> squirrely, throwing all sorts of messages to syslog and then hanging.
> 
> USB (that enclosure has both FW & USB jacks) worked fine, though, giving me a 
> consistent 30MBps rate the whole time, finishing seconds over 6 hours.
> 
> eSATA is my next try, when I get the chance.

So you have 600/630 = 95% of the job done. To finish, I suggest rsync starting 
with
this as the destination of the copying. Even if the source data is changing a 
bit 
from day-to-day, I'm sure the great bulk of it is static. Keep repeating the 
rsync
update until you get a clean, no descrepancies, run. Switching to a different 
disk
interface standard (and abandoning the existing 95% solution (?) ) makes no 
sense to me.

HTH

> 
> 
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> 

-- 
Paul E Condon   
pecon...@mesanetworks.net


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'E:Encountered a section with no Package: header, E:Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_main_binary-i386_Packages, E:La lista dei pacchetti o il file di st

[claudio]

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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <4a5f532a.8000...@gmx.net>, Dirk wrote:
>Jochen Schulz wrote:
>> Dirk:
>>> Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed
>>> Debian without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem
>>> (pick one from this list:
>>> http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).
>>
>> Previously, you said not only HAL itself is the problem, but the *idea*
>> behind it. I have no reason to doubt that HAL isn't necessarily the best
>> implementation of the idea but that doesn't mean the whole idea is bad.
>>
>>> So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.
>>>
>>> The answers will very likely force(!) me(!)
>>
>> Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
>> run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
>> of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.
>
>You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?

No, just those that refuse to accept the package maintainers' decisions.  
That's always been true of every Debian package.

>How about that package maintainer just turns a dependency back into a
>recommendation to make /everyone/ happy? (Did I suggest that before?)

From what I understand, X will run fine without HAL.  In that case, I agree 
with you.  Depends is for packages that are *technically* *required* to run; 
Recommends is for packages that add additional features (including advanced 
configuration or automation).

"Depends" is *NOT* meant for "strong" recommendations.  The package 
maintainer(s) is(are) in the wrong, but they are still the maintainer.  I 
don't have the resources to maintain X.org packages for Debian, so I accept 
what is given for the cost I can bear.  I would be willing to test X.org 
packages that don't Depend on HAL if someone is putting forth the resources 
to maintain them.

If someone it willing to put forth the resources, but they don't have the 
technical skill or time, they can buy both from me.  PM me for rates.
-- 
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <4a5f556b.8090...@gmx.net>, Dirk wrote:
>Jeff Soules wrote:
>>> HAL is not "technology moving forward".
>>>
>>> It is a project dedicated to taking away the right to do what you want.
>>
>> I'm sorry, your argument is "HAL hates freedom?"  Seriously?  You
>> believe there is an entire team of malicious devs who've devoted their
>> weekends to oppressing your choice of mouse buttons?
>>
>It takes away my right to do what I want. And it does so because its
>installation is enforced per dependency.

HAL itself doesn't do that.  The package maintainers for the X.org package 
in Debian do that.

I don't think that they "hate freedom", but rather that they may be making 
the wrong decision for the right reasons.  (They would like Linux to be easy 
AND flexible.)
-- 
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ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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[NOT SOLVED, BUT PROGRESS] Failure to boot after failed resume from s2something

[John]

On (14/07/09 15:09), John wrote:
| I've a puzzling failure to boot.  Error messages have to be copied
| over by hand, so apologies if there are typos. The boot process seems
| normal past cryptsetup's request for the password. The first sign of
| trouble reads
| mount: mounting /dev/mapper/[name of my swap partition] on /root failed: no 
such device
| 
| Next, initramfs appears to run /scripts/local-top and
| /scripts/local-premount successfully. Maybe. Kinit goes for a
| normal boot after pondering manual.  Then comes
| Begin: running /scripts/init-bottom
| mount: mounting /dev on /root/dev failed: No such file or directory.
| 
| There are similar failures re. sys and /proc. Also the message:
| Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init
| 
| At this point, I am dumped into busybox:
| (initramfs)
| but I haven't managed to figure out what to fix or how to fix it.
| 
| The problem first appeared when trying to resume from s2ram (or was it
| s2both?) under a home-compiled vanilla 2.6.30.1 kernel. Purging and
| reinstalling that kernel did not change the problem. A home-compiled
| kernel from 2.6.29-4 vanilla sources has worked fine throughout. I
| tried another kernel, compiled from the basic config-2.6.29-4 that
| works, but from Debian 2.6.30-2 sources, and it fails in exactly the
| same way.
| 
| Googling the error messages has not produced anything I could
| figure out. I'm stumped. Clues will be gratefully accepted.

(Responding to my own post)

I've partly figured out the problem. It is caused by trying to boot a
different kernel from the one under which s2disk or hibernate (not
sure which) was invoked. Before I ran across the obscure warning
against trying this, I had purged the offending kernel. Worse, the
problem is passed along to new initrd.img files every time
update-initramfs is called. So I ended up with three borked kernels,
none of which booted. Luckily, I was able to mv initrd.img-(uname
-r).bak into place, else my machine would have been bricked.

So my questions are:

1) How does one get rid of an old s2disk/hibernate setting that
demands to run "PM: Starting manual resume from disk"? 
2) Can update-initramfs be instructed to ignore that old setting?
3) Ideally, can this problem be addressed from within the busybox:
(initramfs)
into which one is dumped when trying to do it the wrong way/

Until one of these questions is answered, it seems to be impossible to
install any new kernel.

SO BE WARNED: If you save to disk or hibernate, DON'T try to resume
from a different kernel.

BTW: Mightn't there be a more prominent warning against this mistake?

-- 
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Problem with MergeList (was: 'E:Encountered a section with no Package: header...)

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <1247760132.10565.0.ca...@claudio-desktop>, claudio wrote:
[nothing]

However, the subject was really long:
>E:Encountered a section with no Package: header,
>E:Problem with MergeList
>/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_main_binary-
>i386_Packages, 
>E:La lista dei pacchetti o il file di status non possono essere letti o 
>aperti.

The subject is a short summary and should fit on one line.

The body should contain the full text of your question as well as any 
information you feel would be relevant to the person providing assistance.

You should probably just delete the file referenced and 'aptitude update' 
again.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
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ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[steef]

Dirk wrote:

Jochen Schulz wrote:

Dirk:
Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed  
Debian without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem  
(pick one from this list: 
http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).


Previously, you said not only HAL itself is the problem, but the *idea*
behind it. I have no reason to doubt that HAL isn't necessarily the best
implementation of the idea but that doesn't mean the whole idea is bad.


So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.

The answers will very likely force(!) me(!)


Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.


You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?

To downgrade or to even switch whole distributions because of a single 
stubborn package maintainer?


How about that package maintainer just turns a dependency back into a 
recommendation to make /everyone/ happy? (Did I suggest that before?)


to learn to understand how  to alter the HAL configuration while it 
should be possible not to  install HAL in the first place if it 
wasn't made a needlessly  requirement(!) for running a Debian desktop.


Previously, it was required to know how to edit xorg.conf and how to
change (e.g.) the keyboard layout for virtual terminals. Now you don't
need that anymore, but you are required to configure system wide
defaults for both the console and X. I fail to see how the situation has
become worse.


"Now you don't need that anymore" ...because you're /forced/ to 
install HAL.


Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who 
want's  to battle choice?


Actually, I couldn't care less about HAL. I am just asking myself
whether the X.org devs battle choice or whether you are battling
progress.

J.


I don't care of the "progress" that comes with HAL. Because I don't 
want to be forced to install it. I DON'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO INSTALL 
HAL because Linux works fine without a 2nd "Hardware Abstraction Layer".



Dirk



dirk,

i support you on this most principal point: your outcry for the 
persistence of the freedom of choice under debian (linux). without (of 
course well-meaning) patronizing developers. i have followed this 
intriguing thread with some surprise: allmost nobody seems to understand 
fully the impact of the word 'free' any more.


regards,

steef 


steef van duin

publicist, research-journalist


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a tool that can recover partially formatted ext3 FS.

[Sthu Deus]

Good day.

Could You advise me a tool that can recover my files on partially formatted
occasionally disk?

The disk has ext3 FS. And I have canceled operation after few seconds since it
started formatting.

Thank You for Your time.


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Re: Can I check packages integrity with debsums on sums check failed DVDs?

[Sthu Deus]

Thank You for Your time and answer, Johannes:

> This is to be expeced. The md5sum is not part of the package. dpkg -S
> searches files belonging to a software package, not files that contain
> the signature of the package.

> What does 'll /var/lib/dpkg/info/ace-of-penguins.md5sums' yield
> (assuming that you have the package ace-of-penguins installed)?

I have no the package installed. What is the ll command do?

> > How I can find out from whence the file has come?  
> 
> Probably not at all. Your files will have the same md5sums no matter
> from where you've got the package (ie. it does not matter, if the
> package is from your DVD someone else's dvd or from some server over the
> internet, as long as the integrity of the files is ok (ie. md5sums).
> 
> To verify you could try 'debsums ace-of-penguins'

Actually, all I wanted here was to find out from which package come the md5sums
for each package - to understand how the check process works.

I want to know, if I can check the integrity of a downloaded package through
FTP and not apt-get. - For if a check sum comes w/ the package - then I can not
trust it.

If the sums come apart, then, can I:

. download and install the package;

. trustworthy run debsums for every package to a check sum filed DVD - to know 
that the packages are safe?


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Re: aptitude problems

[Charles]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:12:18 -0700
Daniel Burrows  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:53:49AM -0400, Charles
>  was heard to say:
> > On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:26:10 -0700
> > Daniel Burrows  wrote:
> > >   The local or obsolete category in both aptitude and synaptic
> > > consists of packages that are installed on your system but
> > > aren't available from any of the archives you have listed in
> > > /etc/apt/sources.list.  Usually this is because they were
> > 
> >Well that would make sense for some of the packages...but among
> > the list is linux-image-2.6.29-2-686 which I believe is the
> > current kernel on testing and the whole openoffice.org series ???
> 
>   According to packages.debian.org, linux-image-2.6.29-2-686 does
> not exist in any archive.  

  Weird. but look at the  screenshot.

   http://imagebin.ca/view/sTXC-t.html


> openoffice.org does seem a bit odd.  Is
> it really the whole set of packages?  

It seemed to be a more or less complete set (it seems like there are
dozens!). But I have since purged some then reinstalled from testing.

> Some individual packages are
> missing from squeeze -- some of the help packages, for instance.



- -- 
Charles
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KmkAoMEESEw2i3K4RQ30T9mMimHWSoKV
=1xVz
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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RE: a tool that can recover partially formatted ext3 FS.

[Stackpole, Chris]

> From: Sthu Deus [mailto:sthu.d...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:30 AM
> Subject: a tool that can recover partially formatted ext3 FS.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> Could You advise me a tool that can recover my files on partially
> formatted
> occasionally disk?
> 
> The disk has ext3 FS. And I have canceled operation after few seconds
> since it
> started formatting.
> 
> Thank You for Your time.

If you are trying to fix the drive or restore it, I have not ever had
any luck doing that. However, I have used testdisk to recover a file on
a drive that had been accidently wiped. It does have partition recovery,
but I have not had a high success rate with partitions, just files.

A google search brings up this article if you are interested.
http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/storage/8257-how-to-recover-lost-fi
les-after-you-accidentally-wipe-your-hard-drive

BTW, the disk that was wiped in my case was a well used 60GB drive. The
disk I used to recover the files to (since you don't want to over write
the current drive) was a 500GB hard drive. It "recovered" over 450GB of
stuff due to "recovering" deleted files/indexes. So make sure you have a
big drive and plenty of time to sort through it. I did get the important
file and a few other files, but it took a long time.

Hope this helps!
~S~


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Re: Can I check packages integrity with debsums on sums check failed DVDs?

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <4a5f5d95.06e2660a.6fbc.4...@mx.google.com>, Sthu Deus wrote:
>Thank You for Your time and answer, Johannes:
>> > How I can find out from whence the file has come?
>>
>> Probably not at all. Your files will have the same md5sums no matter
>> from where you've got the package (ie. it does not matter, if the
>> package is from your DVD someone else's dvd or from some server over the
>> internet, as long as the integrity of the files is ok (ie. md5sums).
>>
>> To verify you could try 'debsums ace-of-penguins'
>
>Actually, all I wanted here was to find out from which package come the
> md5sums for each package - to understand how the check process works.

A package maintainer can include a debsums file in the package.

When you install the debsums package it sets up an apt hook to generate a 
.debsums file when a package is installed and doesn't already have one.

>I want to know, if I can check the integrity of a downloaded package
> through FTP and not apt-get. - For if a check sum comes w/ the package -
> then I can not trust it.

Depends on how you got the package.  There is a "chain of trust" between 
your apt keyring and the package contents.  The Release and Packages files 
have detached signatures, which APT verifies to ensure they are trusted and 
not corrupt.  The Packages file contains multiple hashes for each .deb 
package, which APT verifies to ensure they are trusted and not corrupt.  The 
.deb package might contain a .debsums file.  If not .debsums can be 
generated locally.

So, *just after package installation* you can trust the .debsums.  They are 
either from a trusted source or are generated locally (generally also a 
trusted source).

The problem arises that the .debsums files are stored on the same (generally 
mutable) media that the package files are stored on.  If an attacker 
modifies package files they can also modify the .debsums to match their 
modifications.  Debsums is not meant to catch attackers, but to detect 
random corruption.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/



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How to get framebuffer device working with ATI radeon?

[Amit Uttamchandani]

I'm trying to get framebuffer loaded for the Radeon X1300/X1550 card
that I have but have had no luck.

Tried loading the following framebuffer drivers:

 * radeonfb
 * atyfb
 * aty128fb

The only framebuffer driver that works is vga16fb.

Other info:

 * Debian Squeeze on an x86 machine.
 * xorg-radeon version 6.11 from experimental
 * xserver-xorg-core 1.5.99.9 from experimental

Thanks for any help.

Amit


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Celejar]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:58:12 +0200
Dirk  wrote:

> Avi Greenbury wrote:

...

> > What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?

...

> The ability to mount devices myself, or not.

This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be configured
to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, lo
and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When I
unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.

> The ability to do what I want.

Again, *what* exactly do you want to do that HAL is confounding?  I'm
also not that crazy about dependency creep, I'd prefer to keep large,
complex, poorly documented stuff off my system, and I haven't yet
really wrapped my head around editing xml fdi files, but I haven't
actually been hampered much in any tangible way yet.  Well, except for
this, which may somehow be HAL related:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=533863

Celejar
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Re: Impossible to start glxgears: GLX-extension missing

[Sthu Deus]

Thank You for Your time and answer, Andrei:

> More info is necessary, like what graphic chipset do yo have and what 
> driver are you using. Also 'grep -i glx /var/log/Xorg.0.log' might help.

ATI Technologies Inc RS482 [Radeon Xpress 200M]

(II) "glx" will be loaded. This was enabled by default and also specified in
the config file. (II) LoadModule: "glx"
(II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions//libglx.so
(II) Module glx: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
(==) AIGLX enabled
(II) Loading extension GLX
(II) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI2 capable
(EE) AIGLX error: r300 exports no extensions (/usr/lib/dri/r300_dri.so:
undefined symbol: __driDriverExtensions) (EE) AIGLX: reverting to software
rendering (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so failed
(/usr/lib/dri/swrast_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or
directory) (EE) GLX: could not load software renderer (II) GLX: no usable GL
providers found for screen 0


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

steef wrote:

Dirk wrote:

Jochen Schulz wrote:

Dirk:
Ok, let us assume I wouldn't be able to remove HAL from a installed  
Debian without breaking X11 permanently and I have a random problem  
(pick one from this list: 
http://www.google.com/search?q=HAL+problem+linux).


Previously, you said not only HAL itself is the problem, but the *idea*
behind it. I have no reason to doubt that HAL isn't necessarily the best
implementation of the idea but that doesn't mean the whole idea is bad.


So I turn here and ask how to solve the problem.

The answers will very likely force(!) me(!)


Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.


You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?

To downgrade or to even switch whole distributions because of a single 
stubborn package maintainer?


How about that package maintainer just turns a dependency back into a 
recommendation to make /everyone/ happy? (Did I suggest that before?)


to learn to understand how  to alter the HAL configuration while it 
should be possible not to  install HAL in the first place if it 
wasn't made a needlessly  requirement(!) for running a Debian desktop.


Previously, it was required to know how to edit xorg.conf and how to
change (e.g.) the keyboard layout for virtual terminals. Now you don't
need that anymore, but you are required to configure system wide
defaults for both the console and X. I fail to see how the situation has
become worse.


"Now you don't need that anymore" ...because you're /forced/ to 
install HAL.


Is that enough of an answer or is there any HAL fanboy left who 
want's  to battle choice?


Actually, I couldn't care less about HAL. I am just asking myself
whether the X.org devs battle choice or whether you are battling
progress.

J.


I don't care of the "progress" that comes with HAL. Because I don't 
want to be forced to install it. I DON'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO INSTALL 
HAL because Linux works fine without a 2nd "Hardware Abstraction Layer".



Dirk



dirk,

i support you on this most principal point: your outcry for the 
persistence of the freedom of choice under debian (linux). without (of 
course well-meaning) patronizing developers. i have followed this 
intriguing thread with some surprise: allmost nobody seems to understand 
fully the impact of the word 'free' any more.


regards,

steef
steef van duin

publicist, research-journalist




I guess we will have to stick it out until HAL has been replaced.

Hopefully the trend of writing UI's and games (QuakeLive) that run in a 
browser will continue and some day X11, HAL and all that mindset ballast 
decending from what they know from other operating systems will become 
obsolete and in a paradigm shift a(ny) browser, itself, becomes a 
Desktop using simple, clean interfaces supplied by the 1st Hardware 
Abstraction Layer (the Kernel).


Something like that. Then we won't have to deal with this short-sighted 
stuborness of cloning "nanny-features" anymore which we thought we left 
behind when we switched to Linux in the early nineties...



Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Celejar wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:58:12 +0200
Dirk  wrote:


Avi Greenbury wrote:


...


What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?


...


The ability to mount devices myself, or not.


This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be configured
to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, lo
and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When I
unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.


I am happy for you.

But how does this prevent me from having to install HAL?


The ability to do what I want.


Again, *what* exactly do you want to do that HAL is confounding?


I don't want to be forced to install and/or care about it.

Because I never did need it. I don't need it. I will never need it.


Dirk


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Celejar]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:20:56 +0200
Dirk  wrote:

> Celejar wrote:
> > On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:58:12 +0200
> > Dirk  wrote:
> > 
> >> Avi Greenbury wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> >>> What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> >> The ability to mount devices myself, or not.
> > 
> > This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
> > merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be configured
> > to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
> > automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, lo
> > and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
> > realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When I
> > unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
> > Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.
> 
> I am happy for you.
> 
> But how does this prevent me from having to install HAL?

I was merely correcting a demonstrably false implication of yours, that
HAL somehow interferes with your control over device mounting.

Celejar
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RE: To mirror a huge tree...

[David Christensen]

ron.l.johnson wrote:
> I've been a big FW fan for many years.  My backups, though, have only
> been (because of compression) in the 70-85GB range.

70-85 MB/s (?) using Firewire II (800 Mbps)?  I am able to get ~40 MB/s on 
Firewire I (400 Mbps).


> But this mirror was 630GB, and along around 600GB, the sbp2 driver
> went squirrely, throwing all sorts of messages to syslog and then
> hanging.

http://ieee1394.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Sbp2

Buggy device drivers are not good...


> USB (that enclosure has both FW & USB jacks) worked fine, though,
> giving me a consistent 30MBps rate the whole time, finishing seconds
> over 6 hours.

Single-device storage capacities have been growing faster than their 
throughput, which makes for long days.  (I just migrated ~340 GB to a new/old 
PIII 600 MHz machine with LUKS encryption at ~10 MB/s; 10 hours over the wire, 
plus more time ironing out wrinkles.)


> eSATA is my next try, when I get the chance.

Same here.  Given the present economy, it will be a while...


David



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Ctrl+Ret in Terminals

[Kumar Appaiah]

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 07:46:53PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> "Enter" ("carriage return") _is_ a control character.  A pc keyboard sends
> keycodes which Emacs under X can intercept and decipher, allowing it to
> distinguish "Enter" from "Cntrl+Enter".  A terminal, however, sends ASCII
> codes.  Pressing the "control" key sets the control bit.  "Enter", being a
> control character, already has it set.

Thanks for the clarification.

Kumar
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Re: Ctrl+Ret in Terminals

[Kumar Appaiah]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:27:12PM +0400, Kumar Appaiah wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 07:46:53PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > "Enter" ("carriage return") _is_ a control character.  A pc keyboard sends
> > keycodes which Emacs under X can intercept and decipher, allowing it to
> > distinguish "Enter" from "Cntrl+Enter".  A terminal, however, sends ASCII
> > codes.  Pressing the "control" key sets the control bit.  "Enter", being a
> > control character, already has it set.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Kumar

Interestingly, this mail is a copy of the one sent by me on June
30th. It's _not_ me who sent this copy, though, since the headers
idicate that it's The Bat, which makes me suspicious...

Kumar


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Ctrl+Ret in Terminals

[nikdelimiter]

"Enterer" ("carriage return") _is_ a control character.  A pc keyboard sends
keycodes which Emacs under X can intercept and decipher, allowing it to
distinguish "Enter" from "Cntrl+Enter".  A terminal, however, sends ASCII
codes.  Pressing the "control" key sets the control bit.  "Enter", being a
control character, already has it set.
-- 
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Brian Nelson]

Dirk  writes:

> Jochen Schulz wrote:
>> Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
>> run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
>> of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.
>
> You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?
>
> To downgrade or to even switch whole distributions because of a single
> stubborn package maintainer?

X.org is maintained by a team of developers, and its usage of HAL has
been discussed on the general developers' mailing list.  There is no
single maintainer acting alone, and if there were a consensus that X's
dependency on HAL is as bad as you say (which there isn't), the
technical committee could overrule them anyway.

-- 
Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.


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Installation options for SATA machines

[AG]

List

Is there a switch (option?) during the installation process one needs to 
be aware of using a sata system?


I was planning on using a May 30/09 netinst snapshot ("squeeze") for a 
basic system and then add from there.


Thanks for any thoughts


AG


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Dirk]

Brian Nelson wrote:

Dirk  writes:


Jochen Schulz wrote:

Nobody forces you to do anything. You can compile patch X.org yourself,
run oldstable, switch to another distribution or throw your computer out
of the window. Or you could just accept HAL and go on with your life.

You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?

To downgrade or to even switch whole distributions because of a single
stubborn package maintainer?


X.org is maintained by a team of developers, and its usage of HAL has
been discussed on the general developers' mailing list.  There is no
single maintainer acting alone, and if there were a consensus that X's
dependency on HAL is as bad as you say (which there isn't), the
technical committee could overrule them anyway.



I meant the package maintainer of the debian package and the refusal to 
reduce HAL to a recommendation instead of making it a requirement.


In the X.org mailinglist I was told that the necessity for HAL can be 
enabled/disabled at compile time. So there should be no problem for the 
maintainer to do so.


I guess the next reply will suggest, again, that everyone who doesn't 
want HAL should compile X11 himself.



Dirk



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Re: How to get all dependent source packages

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 07:46:59PM +0800, sha liu wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>   What I want to do is:
>   If I want to build a package(for example dpkg) from source, how
> should I recursively get all the dependent *source* packages of it?
> This means not only the direct dependency of the package but also the
> dependent of the dependent...I know "apt-get build-dep" will only
> *install* the dependent *binary* packages.
>   I want to do this because I need to build dpkg on a CLFS system
> (think it as a minimal linux system without debianization), and it's
> crazy to download all dependent source packages of dpkg, right?


have you checked man apt-get look for build-dep

-- 
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I'm the dictator."

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12/19/2000
Washington, DC


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Re: Config files for Gnome bluetooth-applet: where to locate them?

[Celejar]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:06:14 +0200
Klistvud  wrote:

...

> was: Nokia bluetooth set won't pair anymore.
> 
> In short: I'm looking for 
> the *location of config files* where bluetooth-applet keeps its list of 
> paired (bonded) devices. What I do know: it's NOT in /etc/bluetooth and 
> it's NOT a per-user configuration (ALL the users on my system are 
> affected). Grepping for a known good bluetooth device (a GSM phone that 
> pairs OK) yielded insignificant results.

I was quite intrigued by this, so I spent a while rooting around and
experimenting (the documentation here is pretty scanty) until I found
it:

/var/lib/bluetooth

The files under that directory:

names   a list of device names and their corresponding bluetooth device 
addresses (BDAs)
lastseena list of BDAs and the corresponding timestamps of when they 
were last seen
lastusedditto, mutatis mutandis
trusts  a list of BDAs and their trust statuses

etc.

Why on earth the data is stored there I leave to the great gurus.

Celejar
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:35:29AM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In <4a5f532a.8000...@gmx.net>, Dirk wrote:
> >Jochen Schulz wrote:
> >> Dirk:
[snip]
> >You suggest that everyone compiles X11 him-/herself now?
> 
> No, just those that refuse to accept the package maintainers' decisions.  
> That's always been true of every Debian package.
> 
> >How about that package maintainer just turns a dependency back into a
> >recommendation to make /everyone/ happy? (Did I suggest that before?)
> 
> From what I understand, X will run fine without HAL.  In that case, I agree 
> with you.  Depends is for packages that are *technically* *required* to run; 
> Recommends is for packages that add additional features (including advanced 
> configuration or automation).
> 
> "Depends" is *NOT* meant for "strong" recommendations.  The package 
> maintainer(s) is(are) in the wrong, but they are still the maintainer.  I 
> don't have the resources to maintain X.org packages for Debian, so I accept 
> what is given for the cost I can bear.  I would be willing to test X.org 
> packages that don't Depend on HAL if someone is putting forth the resources 
> to maintain them.

Problem with this attitude is that back in the day, if linus had said
that, sorry I can't maintain an entire distro, but microsoft can and
therefor I should be happy with what i have, we would not be here today.

Dirk has his right to object and as you have pointed out he might have
some grounds to do it.

HAL has been a pain for me, because of my laptop and my need to attach
things to the laptop whilst its on, thus hal mount things all over the
place and does things the system wasn't doing before. 

As for the efi structure its a pain.

To me the "depends: hal" is the same as saying you need the intel gpu
driver when you install X

A

> 
> If someone it willing to put forth the resources, but they don't have the 
> technical skill or time, they can buy both from me.  PM me for rates.



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refers to expensive $3 color as opposed to the cheaper 25
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:22:03PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:20:56 +0200
> Dirk  wrote:
> 
> > Celejar wrote:
> > > On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:58:12 +0200
> > > Dirk  wrote:
> > > 
> > >> Avi Greenbury wrote:
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > >>> What is the 'best part of Linux' that HAL neglects?
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > >> The ability to mount devices myself, or not.
> > > 
> > > This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
> > > merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be configured
> > > to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
> > > automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, lo
> > > and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
> > > realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When I
> > > unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
> > > Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.

isn't this because it writes out HAL efi files ?
/etc/hal/fdi/policy/preferences.fdi


> > 
> > I am happy for you.
> > 
> > But how does this prevent me from having to install HAL?
> 
> I was merely correcting a demonstrably false implication of yours, that
> HAL somehow interferes with your control over device mounting.
> 
> Celejar

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of name that was popular in the '60s as a result of controlled substances
being in widespread use.  Back then, there were no restrictions, in terms
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Re: ldapsearch -- troubles connecting to LDAP server (SASL config?)

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 09:59:26AM -0500, w...@serensoft.com wrote:
> Hello Debianistas!
> 
> We're a bit new to the LDAP world and are having trouble configuring a
> connection to the LDAP server.
> 
> Using "ldapsearch" as a diagnostic tool, here's what we are getting:
> 
> # ldapsearch -h 10.3.1.37

you haven't said what type of authentication you have setup or what
acl's you have on the tree

as somebody else pointed out try the -D the bind user options. I would
try 

ldapsearch -x 
this uses simple auth and binds as anonymous, you might need to supply
the base as well. then

ldapsearch -x -D "DN for bind user " -w -b""

and go from there


-- 
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potential of broadband technology, you understand how hard it is to make sure 
that physics, for example, is taught in every classroom in the state. It's 
difficult to do. It's, like, cost-prohibitive."

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Re: How to get framebuffer device working with ATI radeon?

[Kelly Clowers]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:06, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
>
> I'm trying to get framebuffer loaded for the Radeon X1300/X1550 card
> that I have but have had no luck.
>
> Tried loading the following framebuffer drivers:
>
>  * radeonfb
>  * atyfb
>  * aty128fb
>
> The only framebuffer driver that works is vga16fb.

You might try vesa. That is what I usually use.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Celejar]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:39:16 +1000
Alex Samad  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:22:03PM -0400, Celejar wrote:

...

> > > > This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
> > > > merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be configured
> > > > to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
> > > > automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, lo
> > > > and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
> > > > realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When I
> > > > unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
> > > > Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.
> 
> isn't this because it writes out HAL efi files ?
> /etc/hal/fdi/policy/preferences.fdi

Not sure what you mean; I currently have xfce's automounting enabled,
and that file you mention is virtually empty (it contains a couple of
commented out examples, and not much else.

Celejar
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 04:57:44PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:39:16 +1000
> Alex Samad  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:22:03PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > > > > This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
> > > > > merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be 
> > > > > configured
> > > > > to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
> > > > > automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, 
> > > > > lo
> > > > > and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
> > > > > realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When I
> > > > > unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
> > > > > Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.
> > 
> > isn't this because it writes out HAL efi files ?
> > /etc/hal/fdi/policy/preferences.fdi
> 
> Not sure what you mean; I currently have xfce's automounting enabled,
> and that file you mention is virtually empty (it contains a couple of
> commented out examples, and not much else.
I also have the xfce4 automount options off and it looks to me like it
has set them in this file

 








What I was trying to suggest is that you were using hal even though you
thought you were not.

A

> 
> Celejar

-- 
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name-calling that comes from freeing parents to make different choices for 
their children."

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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Kelly Clowers]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 14:02, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 04:57:44PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:39:16 +1000
>> Alex Samad  wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:22:03PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > > > > This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
>> > > > > merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be 
>> > > > > configured
>> > > > > to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
>> > > > > automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this message, 
>> > > > > lo
>> > > > > and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
>> > > > > realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  When 
>> > > > > I
>> > > > > unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
>> > > > > Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.
>> >
>> > isn't this because it writes out HAL efi files ?
>> > /etc/hal/fdi/policy/preferences.fdi
>>
>> Not sure what you mean; I currently have xfce's automounting enabled,
>> and that file you mention is virtually empty (it contains a couple of
>> commented out examples, and not much else.
> I also have the xfce4 automount options off and it looks to me like it
> has set them in this file
>
>  
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> What I was trying to suggest is that you were using hal even though you
> thought you were not.

Setting a volume manager/automounter not to automount may change
that file, but hal still does not do the mounting. I run Awesome WM, and
even with that value set to true, it does not automount - because there is
no volume manager. And a volume manager could ignore that hint from
hal if it coded that way.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers


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Re: To mirror a huge tree...

[ron.l.johnson]

 Paul E Condon  wrote:
> On 2009-07-15_23:53:27, ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote:
[snip]
>
> So you have 600/630 = 95% of the job done. To finish, I suggest rsync 
> starting with
> this as the destination of the copying. Even if the source data is changing a 
> bit
> from day-to-day, I'm sure the great bulk of it is static. Keep repeating the 
> rsync

Who knows how many silent corruptions the FW drivers were slipping into the 
files.

> update until you get a clean, no descrepancies, run. Switching to a different 
> disk
> interface standard (and abandoning the existing 95% solution (?) ) makes no 
> sense to me.

Sure it does, since how could I be sure that there was no underlying h/w issue?

Copying it all thru the USB subssystem demonstrated that it wasn't a h/w fault. 
 Or at least maybe the USB system is "better" at hiding faults.


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Celejar]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:02:19 +1000
Alex Samad  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 04:57:44PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:39:16 +1000
> > Alex Samad  wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 03:22:03PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > > > > This is just wrong; HAL *doesn't automount anything* on its own.  It
> > > > > > merely passes information to a *volume manager*, which can be 
> > > > > > configured
> > > > > > to do whatever you want.  I run HAL, and I've never had devices
> > > > > > automounted. When I tried once more, before firing off this 
> > > > > > message, lo
> > > > > > and behold my USB key did indeed automount, but I investigated and
> > > > > > realized that it was some component of xfce that was doing it.  
> > > > > > When I
> > > > > > unchecked the box "Settings / Removable Drives and Media / Storage /
> > > > > > Mount removable drives when hot-plugged", the old behavior returned.
> > > 
> > > isn't this because it writes out HAL efi files ?
> > > /etc/hal/fdi/policy/preferences.fdi
> > 
> > Not sure what you mean; I currently have xfce's automounting enabled,
> > and that file you mention is virtually empty (it contains a couple of
> > commented out examples, and not much else.
> I also have the xfce4 automount options off and it looks to me like it
> has set them in this file
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I was trying to suggest is that you were using hal even though you
> thought you were not.

I have the same file.  There's nothing in it, since those stanzas are
commented out, and they seem to remain commented out, even when I
enable automounting in xfce.  Are you suggesting that xfce changes the
file?  I don't think that it does.

In any event, those stanzas aren't to enable automounting, but to
disable it for non-removable media, and besides, as Kelly points out,
they're just hints to the automounter, which does any actual work, and
is configured separately, so once again, Dirk's claim that HAL somehow
hijacks his ability to mount as he sees fit is simply incorrect.

Celejar
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Re: Installation options for SATA machines

[Michael Ekstrand]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

AG wrote:
> List
> 
> Is there a switch (option?) during the installation process one needs to
> be aware of using a sata system?

Not with modern Linux and modern SATA.  I've installed on SATA on both
my server and laptop without problems, going back to oldstable's install
media.

- - Michael

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkpfpcAACgkQJMBfXHjb5YXiywCeJjXujizhpSltIZeSQTYqam6/
6cQAniHu+ZuQvW8XkHvdSdD7Kdl/gC/T
=tiTb
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't workanymore

[owens]

>
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: noi...@gmx.net
>To: sou...@gmail.com
>Subject: Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't
>workanymore
>Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:29:31 +0200
>
>>Jeff Soules wrote:
 HAL is not "technology moving forward".

 It is a project dedicated to taking away the right to do what you
>want.
>>> 
>>> I'm sorry, your argument is "HAL hates freedom?"  Seriously?  You
>>> believe there is an entire team of malicious devs who've devoted
>their
>>> weekends to oppressing your choice of mouse buttons?
>>> 
 And the persistance of not understanding this that I face here is
>just sad.
 You people don't seem to know what door you leave open here and
>how it could
 affect the future and usability of Linux in a negative way.
>>> 
>>> All right, I'll bite.  How specifically could it affect the future
>and
>>> usability of Linux in a negative way?  What disasters might
>happen,
>>> what door are we leaving open here?  What does HAL do that you
>don't
>>> like?
>>
>>It takes away my right to do what I want. And it does so because its
>
>>installation is enforced per dependency.
>>
>>I can imagine making Linux safer to use for beginners by having a
>daemon 
>>in the background running that overwrites changed config files with 
>>default values to prevent clueless people from trashing their
>system.
>>
>>That daemon could be enforced as a dependency of the Linux Standard
>Base 
>>to ensure less questions like "Help! My Linux doesn't work anymore."
>in 
>>this mailing list.
>>
>>That would be very convenient and to hell with people who don't need
>it.
>>
>>> You can't be too upset with us for not understanding that when
>you've
>>> made very little effort to explain it (beyond "I might have to
>learn
>>> how to fix it").
>>
>>It is not: "I might have to learn how to fix it"
>>
>>It is: "I can't deinstall it even though it could be possible"
>>
>>
>>
>>Dirk
>>
Pardon a mild intervention but I seem to recall a very similar thread
on a very similar topic several months ago that, as this one seems to
be heading, ended with frustration on both sides.  Is Don Quixote in
the house?
Larry
>>
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>>



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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Nate Bargmann]

* Alex Samad  [2009 Jul 16 17:46 -0500]:
> HAL has been a pain for me, because of my laptop and my need to attach
> things to the laptop whilst its on, thus hal mount things all over the
> place and does things the system wasn't doing before. 

I'm puzzled by this and HAL does not mount *anything* on my machines
until I tell it to.  I am using KDE 3.5 and 4.2 and in neither case
will a device be mounted automatically, I must initiate it on my own. 
It seems as though automounting of the type I understand you describing
is a desktop environment issue?  I did no special configuration of HAL
to acheive this either.

OTOH, HAL along with udev is invaulable to me for making a USB to
serial adapter available without issue or a USB sound card I use for
amateur radio work.  It's just there once it's plugged in with no
writing of arcane rules or trying to determine kernel device names by
diggin through /var/log/syslog when some new device is plugged in for
the first time.

I'm no HAL fanboi as I really don't care if it's HAL, udev, or the
kernel making my life easier and more convenient.

- Nate >>

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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 06:16:51PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * Alex Samad  [2009 Jul 16 17:46 -0500]:
> > HAL has been a pain for me, because of my laptop and my need to attach
> > things to the laptop whilst its on, thus hal mount things all over the
> > place and does things the system wasn't doing before. 
> 
> I'm puzzled by this and HAL does not mount *anything* on my machines
> until I tell it to.  I am using KDE 3.5 and 4.2 and in neither case
> will a device be mounted automatically, I must initiate it on my own. 
> It seems as though automounting of the type I understand you describing
> is a desktop environment issue?  I did no special configuration of HAL
> to acheive this either.

well, when I installed HAL, i noticed when I docked my laptop in its
docking station I suddenly had the extra drive mounted on /medi/... and
when I pluggde in usb keys they started to appear on the desktop as well

I associated this with HAL - as it was the last package I installed
before these things started to happen. I stopped them by placing a efi
file to tell it to ignore these devices, I already have udev rules and
fstab user rules to allow me to mount them as needed.

> 
> OTOH, HAL along with udev is invaulable to me for making a USB to
> serial adapter available without issue or a USB sound card I use for
> amateur radio work.  It's just there once it's plugged in with no
> writing of arcane rules or trying to determine kernel device names by
> diggin through /var/log/syslog when some new device is plugged in for
> the first time.

I have written 1 line udev rules to handle my devices written once and
thats all i need 

> 
> I'm no HAL fanboi as I really don't care if it's HAL, udev, or the
> kernel making my life easier and more convenient.

I am all for convenience, but I am also for the right to choose, sounds
like HAL is not really needed for X, so it should be a recommends and
not a depends.


Alex
PS - upon looking at the preferences I posted earlier looks like I was
wrong, its all commented out

> 
> - Nate >>
> 

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Re: [NOT SOLVED, BUT PROGRESS] Failure to boot after failed resume from s2something

[Andrew Reid]

On Thursday 16 July 2009 12:36:57 John wrote:

>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) How does one get rid of an old s2disk/hibernate setting that
> demands to run "PM: Starting manual resume from disk"?
> 2) Can update-initramfs be instructed to ignore that old setting?
> 3) Ideally, can this problem be addressed from within the busybox:
> (initramfs)
> into which one is dumped when trying to do it the wrong way/

  Have you tried booting with "noresume"?  The theory on this 
is that this should entirely bypass the resume process, so it
won't matter what's in your resume partition.

  I dimly recall setting the resume partition in the initramfs.conf
process somewhere, but can't seem to find documentation about that
now.

-- A.
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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Nate Bargmann]

* Alex Samad  [2009 Jul 16 19:40 -0500]:
> I am all for convenience, but I am also for the right to choose, sounds
> like HAL is not really needed for X, so it should be a recommends and
> not a depends.

I've played some with the new features of Xorg earlier this year,
xrandr.  The HAL capability is essential for plugging in an external
monitor of unknown resolution and then being able use it seemlessly as
a mutlihead system.  Note that I played with it for a couple of days
and the "monitor" was a Samsung LCD TV.  I have no doubt that I would
have spent days getting things to work the old way.

This issue can be solved by identifying what HAL provides to Xorg. 
Evidently the Debian X Strike Force team has decided that HAL is a
dependency that will enhance the distribution.  Other users disagree,
obviously.  Perhaps this identifies an area of possible improvement in
Debian where the users could provide input to the developers in a more
direct fashion than via bug reports.  I don't have a clue as to how
this might be implemented, however.

- Nate >>

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Re: X11 without HAL: "DontZap" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesn't work anymore

[Alex Samad]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 08:28:36PM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * Alex Samad  [2009 Jul 16 19:40 -0500]:
> > I am all for convenience, but I am also for the right to choose, sounds
> > like HAL is not really needed for X, so it should be a recommends and
> > not a depends.
> 
> I've played some with the new features of Xorg earlier this year,
> xrandr.  The HAL capability is essential for plugging in an external
> monitor of unknown resolution and then being able use it seemlessly as
> a mutlihead system.  Note that I played with it for a couple of days
> and the "monitor" was a Samsung LCD TV.  I have no doubt that I would
> have spent days getting things to work the old way.

I seem to be able to do this with my nvidia driver and nvidia settings

> 
> This issue can be solved by identifying what HAL provides to Xorg. 
> Evidently the Debian X Strike Force team has decided that HAL is a
> dependency that will enhance the distribution.  Other users disagree,
> obviously.  Perhaps this identifies an area of possible improvement in
> Debian where the users could provide input to the developers in a more
> direct fashion than via bug reports.  I don't have a clue as to how
> this might be implemented, however.

but as has been pointed out it is going to be replaced 

> 
> - Nate >>
> 



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Xmodmap & sound keys.

[Edward Jabbour]

As on many laps, this machine has keys for mute, up and down.  I have
the proper keycodes in ~/.Xmodmap, but I can't get them to work at all.  I
ran the verbose option and got:

[Thu Jul 16] edj:~$ xmodmap -verbose .Xmodmap
! .Xmodmap:
! 1:  keycode 174 = XF86AudioLowerVolume
keycode 0xae = XF86AudioLowerVolume
! 2:  keycode 176 = XF86AudioRaiseVolume
keycode 0xb0 = XF86AudioRaiseVolume
! 3:  keycode 160 = XF86AudioMute
keycode 0xa0 = XF86AudioMute
!
! executing work queue
!
keycode 0xae = XF86AudioLowerVolume
keycode 0xb0 = XF86AudioRaiseVolume
keycode 0xa0 = XF86AudioMute

If anyone sees anything I've missed here, I'm all ears.

Re: [NOT SOLVED, BUT PROGRESS] Failure to boot after failed resume from s2something

[John]

On (16/07/09 20:55), Andrew Reid wrote:
| On Thursday 16 July 2009 12:36:57 John wrote:
| >
| > So my questions are:
| >
| > 1) How does one get rid of an old s2disk/hibernate setting that
| > demands to run "PM: Starting manual resume from disk"?
| > 2) Can update-initramfs be instructed to ignore that old setting?
| > 3) Ideally, can this problem be addressed from within the busybox:
| > (initramfs)
| > into which one is dumped when trying to do it the wrong way/
| 
|   Have you tried booting with "noresume"?  The theory on this 
| is that this should entirely bypass the resume process, so it
| won't matter what's in your resume partition.

Hi, Andrew,

Thanks for taking the trouble.

I have indeed tried "noresume," and it fails in the same old
way. Apparently the problem is built into initrd.img-(uname -), since
two of my kernels fail in the same way, and only the one whose
initrd.img-(uname -).bak was saved. I now fear to touch that one,
since it's all that keeps the machine bootable.

|   I dimly recall setting the resume partition in the initramfs.conf
| process somewhere, but can't seem to find documentation about that
| now.

I've looked at that documentation, without finding anything
helpful. /etc/initramfs-tools.conf.d/resume is set to the proper resume
partition. I can s2ram successfully from the one working kernel, but
of course can't experiment with the others because they won't boot.

Thanks for your efforts.

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Re: USB keyboard fails in 5.01 - please help!

[Zachary Uram]

On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:34:53 -0400
celejar  wrote:
>
> > Just installed Debian 5.01 and my USB keyboard is not recognized. It
> > works fine in Microsoft Windows Vista. I think it is an issue with
> > newer kernels because I also tried it with Ubuntu 9.04  and same
> > problem (keyboard's green status light never comes on - even during
> > entire boot process as it normally would).
>
> dmesg and syslog output when keyboard is plugged in?
>
> Celejar

Hi Celejar,

Here is what shows up in the log:

ul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.416026] usb 6-1: new low
speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 2
Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.590491] usb 6-1:
configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.645010] input: BTC USB
Multimedia Keyboard as
/devices/pci:00/:00:13.1/usb6/6-1/6-1:1.0/input/input8
Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.656662] generic-usb
0003:046D:C312.0004: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 Keyboard [BTC USB
Multimedia Keyboard] on usb-:00:13.1-1/input0
Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.672122] input: BTC USB
Multimedia Keyboard as
/devices/pci:00/:00:13.1/usb6/6-1/6-1:1.1/input/input9
Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.693021] generic-usb
0003:046D:C312.0005: input,hiddev96,hidraw2: USB HID v1.10 Device [BTC
USB Multimedia Keyboard] on usb-:00:13.1-1/input1

I installed the driver from www.hidpoint.com but it didn't work
because my keyboard was not in the list of keyboard models it let you
select :(

Here is my keyboard:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-967973-0403-Internet-Desktop-Keyboard/dp/B000HJOUP0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1247806041&sr=1-2

Zach


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Re: USB keyboard fails in 5.01 - please help!

[Celejar]

[please don't cc. me, as per the list CoC]

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:52:12 -0400
Zachary Uram  wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:34:53 -0400
> celejar  wrote:
> >
> > > Just installed Debian 5.01 and my USB keyboard is not recognized. It
> > > works fine in Microsoft Windows Vista. I think it is an issue with
> > > newer kernels because I also tried it with Ubuntu 9.04  and same
> > > problem (keyboard's green status light never comes on - even during
> > > entire boot process as it normally would).
> >
> > dmesg and syslog output when keyboard is plugged in?
> >
> > Celejar
> 
> Hi Celejar,
> 
> Here is what shows up in the log:
> 
> ul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.416026] usb 6-1: new low
> speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 2
> Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.590491] usb 6-1:
> configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.645010] input: BTC USB
> Multimedia Keyboard as
> /devices/pci:00/:00:13.1/usb6/6-1/6-1:1.0/input/input8
> Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.656662] generic-usb
> 0003:046D:C312.0004: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 Keyboard [BTC USB
> Multimedia Keyboard] on usb-:00:13.1-1/input0
> Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.672122] input: BTC USB
> Multimedia Keyboard as
> /devices/pci:00/:00:13.1/usb6/6-1/6-1:1.1/input/input9
> Jul 17 00:45:25 hyperyoda kernel: [241558.693021] generic-usb
> 0003:046D:C312.0005: input,hiddev96,hidraw2: USB HID v1.10 Device [BTC
> USB Multimedia Keyboard] on usb-:00:13.1-1/input1

[Note: it's probably better not to wrap log or other system output.]

> I installed the driver from www.hidpoint.com but it didn't work
> because my keyboard was not in the list of keyboard models it let you
> select :(
> 
> Here is my keyboard:
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-967973-0403-Internet-Desktop-Keyboard/dp/B000HJOUP0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1247806041&sr=1-2

I don't have much to offer, but here's my system's output when I plug
in my USB keyboard; it looks pretty similar to yours, but mine "just
works".  I never had to do anything at all to get it up and running, no
driver installation or anything else:

> Jul 17 01:11:23 lizzie kernel: [141901.354035] usb 3-1: new full speed USB 
> device using uhci_hcd and address 5
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.513189] usb 3-1: configuration #1 
> chosen from 1 choice
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.520096] hub 3-1:1.0: USB hub found
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.521128] hub 3-1:1.0: 3 ports detected
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.800079] usb 3-1.1: new full speed USB 
> device using uhci_hcd and address 6
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.926196] usb 3-1.1: configuration #1 
> chosen from 1 choice
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.938855] input: NMB Dell USB 7HK 
> Keyboard as 
> /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.1/usb3/3-1/3-1.1/3-1.1:1.0/input/input10
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.938928] generic-usb 
> 0003:413C:2001.0004: input: USB HID v1.00 Keyboard [NMB Dell USB 7HK 
> Keyboard] on usb-:00:1d.1-1.1/input0
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.945184] input: NMB Dell USB 7HK 
> Keyboard as 
> /devices/pci:00/:00:1d.1/usb3/3-1/3-1.1/3-1.1:1.1/input/input11
> Jul 17 01:11:24 lizzie kernel: [141901.945262] generic-usb 
> 0003:413C:2001.0005: input: USB HID v1.00 Device [NMB Dell USB 7HK Keyboard] 
> on usb-:00:1d.1-1.1/input1> 

Celejar
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problems during installation

[w0102926]

Hi
I attempted to install debian GNU/Linux 5.0 several times
today, but every time the process gets to select and install
software, nothing appears to happen, I have left it for up
to an hour with please wait 1% complete on the screen. The
rest of the process happens instantly which leads to the
conclusion something isn't right. Any help would be greatly
appreciated 
jason


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Re: problems during installation

[Tim Beauregard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

w0102926 wrote:
> Hi
> I attempted to install debian GNU/Linux 5.0 several times
> today, but every time the process gets to select and install
> software, nothing appears to happen, I have left it for up

Maybe you could try a different version (eg testing)?  Are you using a
full CD install, a minimal install or network install?
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