Re: Hardware support for Thinkpad X230?

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 11/20/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> On 11/20/13, Richard Lawrence  wrote:
> about? There is an "Fn" key, perhaps that? Anyway just try tpb if
> something doesn't work.

"tpb" is a package by the way, I probably should have said "just
apt-get install tpb..."

cheers
zenaan


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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Chris Bannister]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 02:26:21PM +0100, Andre Majorel wrote:
> On 2013-11-19 21:54 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 05:07:52PM +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> >
> > > I think Jonathan was directing his comments to Emilio, not
> > > you. It's difficult to know for sure as he didn't use a
> > > name, or quote some of the offending message.
> 
> An attribution wouldn't have hurt but it's plain to see that Jon
> was replying to Emilio's message, not Ron's. Or don't mailers
> show threads any more ?

Mutt, the one I use, does; but I don't keep *all* the messages in a
thread. I must have deleted the message that Jonathan referred to at
some stage. I think this adds more credence to the point that providing
context and attribution would certainly help avoid conversations like
this one.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: Pulse-audio "brown outs" (like a half second cross fade)

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 11/20/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> Running sid, xfce, and just today, pulse audio.
>
> Occurs with at least two mp3 files (didn't happen in past, been some
> months since I played any audio).
>
> Tried from: mplayer command line, vlc gtk gui, and audacious gtk.

Does not occur with alsaplayer.

I'm still running pavucontrol, a pa mixer gui - on its Playback tab,
the second section down is titled "ALSA plug-in [alsaplayer]: ALSA
Playback", so alsaplayer plays back via alsa output, and does not
suffer the problem.

So I now try Audacious again - settings changed to use alsa output: no
problem seen. Played one song only - now testing a long playlist.

I've queue up a couple hours, and testing again (alsa). I have not
tested a long queue this (recently) with alsa, although I don't recall
this type of problem ever before, so I believe it'll not occur, and is
only a pa artifact.

Any ideas how to configure pulseaudio to work well on debian sid (/xfce)?

TIA
Zenaan

PS, I use apt-get to install, and chose to accept the "add real-time
to audio group" option/question which came up on installation;
"groups" shows my user is a member of audio group.


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xfce Cannot remove file from "favourites"

[Zenaan Harkness]

I accidentally clicked the wrong item on a right click menu for an
(mp3) file, and it is now added into the bottom "favourites" section
of my "favourites" column in the "Open Files" dialog:

I can right-click on folders I've added there, and I can then click remove;

but for a file, when I right-click on this mp3 file, the menu "remove;
rename" comes up, but both items are disabled.

Anyone know how I can fix this please?

TIA
Zenaan


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Pulse-audio "brown outs" (like a half second cross fade)

[Zenaan Harkness]

Running sid, xfce, and just today, pulse audio.

Occurs with at least two mp3 files (didn't happen in past, been some
months since I played any audio).

Tried from: mplayer command line, vlc gtk gui, and audacious gtk.

Same in all cases.

Part way through a track, I get what sounds to me like a cross-fade
over about half a second or less.

The point in time during a track where this occurs is not consistent.
Has occurred near start of track, alternatively towards end of track,
sometimes repeat occurrence just a few seconds apart (this is
happening somewhat consistently just now).

Do I need to go back to simple alsa (xfce?) mixer?

TIA
Zenaan


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Re: CIFS mount hangs

[Scott Ferguson]

On 19/11/13 23:33, assm...@skygate.de wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
> since my upgrade to wheezy I have a problem with a cifs mount. It is a
> share of my windows host. The setup worked fine in debian squeeze.
> 
> I mount this in a virtualbox guest via /etc/fstab like this:
> 
> //myipadress/data /data cifs 
> uid=33,gid=33,auto,user=myuser,password=mypassword 00

Working fstab line from Wheezy:-
//vbserver/references /home/scott/References cifs
ro,_netdev,credentials=/root/.cifs,uid=1000,gid=1000 0 0


"ro" shouldn't affect you
"_netdev" stops boot from failing if the network resource is not
available (probably cause of your problem *if* the network resource
exists *and* UID and GID are correct).
check "uid" and "gid" against your user
consider removing the "auto" (possible cause of your problem)
consider replacing a system-wide readable password with one that's
readable by root only (won't cause your problem, prevents others).

> 
> Everything seems fine ... until something happens. I have no idea what
> exactly :-(
> 
> When I try to access the share via ssh-commandline the shell hangs. No
> CTRL-C can bring it back to life. When I try to restart apache which
> has docroots on the share, the shell hangs.
> 
> How do I find out what is going wrong here? I looked in
> /var/log/syslog and /var/log/dmesg and found nothing.

To see what has been mounted:-
$ mount

To try and mount everything in /etc/fstab:-
# mount -a

The output from the last command will be instructive.

You should also take a look at your network settings:-
$ ip a

> 
> Any hints would be great!
> 
> TIA
> 
> Tobias
> 
> 
> 

Kind regards


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Re: testing wants to install systemd

[Brad Alexander]

That's interesting. I am on a sid system, and I haven't noticed systemd on
my system. I have the support libraries:

$ dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libsystemd-daemon0:amd64  204-5
amd64systemd utility library
ii  libsystemd-login0:amd64   204-5
amd64systemd login utility library

I also checked a testing box, and it has the same libs.

I also, just out of curiosity, checked apticron on both boxes, but neither
of them has systemd on the to be installed list. Maybe a dependency on
something previously installed?

--b


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Rob Owens  wrote:

> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis.  I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear?  For those who
> have installed it, does the system handle the switch from the old init
> scripts, or is there a lot of manual intervention and time required?
>
> -Rob
>

Re: testing wants to install systemd

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2013-11-20 at 01:41 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 19:19 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> > I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> > basis.  I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> > I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear?  For those who
> > have installed it, does the system handle the switch from the old init
> > scripts, or is there a lot of manual intervention and time required?
> 
> Are you sure that it is installed to replace init? Perhaps systemd isn't
> used, but needed as a hard dependency? Or they stopped separating udev
> from systemd, by upstream they are merged.

PS: Where are notes to updates for testing?

However, http://packages.debian.org/jessie/systemd , systemd by the
Debian package depends on udev, so they aren't merged and it also
depends on initscripts, IOW systemd isn't systemd. Why does systemd need
initscripts? Must be regarding to a transition.

Assumed the transition would work automatically and flawlessly, then you
still need to be able to handle it. For example, the big advantage of
systemd is, that you can boot your system within seconds, one
disadvantage is, that reading kernel logs has become a PITA. If you
thought that it's always no fun to read those logs you're right but with
systemd it's much more unpleasant. I don't know what voodoo Debian does
use, but if you switch you likely will have to do much work manually.
OTOH, initscripts is a dependency of systemd for Debian.

Impressions from Arch
=

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Qi systemd
Name   : systemd
Version: 208-2
Description: system and service manager
Architecture   : x86_64
URL: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
Licenses   : GPL2  LGPL2.1  MIT
Groups : None
Provides   : libsystemd=208  nss-myhostname  systemd-tools=208  udev=208  
libgudev-1.0.so=0-64
 libsystemd-daemon.so=0-64  libsystemd-id128.so=0-64  
libsystemd-journal.so=0-64
 libsystemd-login.so=0-64  libudev.so=1-64
Depends On : acl  bash  dbus-core  glib2  kbd  kmod  hwids  libcap  
libgcrypt  pam  util-linux  xz
Optional Deps  : cryptsetup: required for encrypted block devices [installed]
 libmicrohttpd: systemd-journal-gatewayd
 quota-tools: kernel-level quota management
 python: systemd library bindings [installed]
 systemd-sysvcompat: symlink package to provide sysvinit 
binaries [installed]
Required By: accountsservice  apache  bluez-utils  chromium  colord  
device-mapper  gnome-session
 gstreamer0.10-good-plugins  lib32-systemd  libatasmart  
libgusb  libmbim  libusbx  libwacom
 lightdm  lvm2  mate-session-manager  media-player-info  mesa  
mkinitcpio  modemmanager  netctl
 networkmanager  pcmciautils  pcsclite  polkit  qt5-base  
qtwebkit  subversion  syslog-ng
 systemd-sysvcompat  thunar  udisks  udisks2  upower  
xf86-input-evdev  xf86-video-ati
Optional For   : None
Conflicts With : libsystemd  nss-myhostname  systemd-tools  udev
Replaces   : libsystemd  nss-myhostname  systemd-tools  udev
Installed Size : 12482.00 KiB
Packager   : Dave Reisner 
Build Date : Mon 21 Oct 2013 03:27:49 PM CEST
Install Date   : Fri 25 Oct 2013 12:01:44 AM CEST
Install Reason : Installed as a dependency for another package
Install Script : Yes
Validated By   : Signature

JFTR Chromium and Thunar not really require systemd, they require udev.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Qi thunar chromium | grep Depends\ On
Depends On : desktop-file-utils  libexif  hicolor-icon-theme
libnotify  udev  gtk2  exo  libxfce4util  libxfce4ui  libpng
Depends On : gtk2  nss  alsa-lib  xdg-utils  bzip2  libevent  libxss
icu  libgcrypt  ttf-font  udev  dbus  flac  opus  snappy
speech-dispatcher  pciutils  libpulse  harfbuzz  harfbuzz-icu
desktop-file-utils  hicolor-icon-theme


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Re: Automatic installs

[Brad Alexander]

Excellent. Thanks, Andrei,


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Ma, 19 nov 13, 17:28:27, Brad Alexander wrote:
> > Sorry. Replied privately instead of to the list...
>
> And I'll elaborate on my short reply as promised.
>
> > Way back in the mists of time, around the time of the squeeze release, I
> > asked here and it was recommended to use apt rather than aptitude...
> >
> > I'm guessing the best practice has changed...?
>
> Each has its strengths and weaknesses and I use both:
>
> - on my sid laptop I have an aptitude in interactive mode open all the
>   time, to keep the system updated (almost daily), to look up package
>   information, to check out new packages, to remove obsolete ones and
>   other general maintenance of the system
>

I've tried the interactive mode, but it reminds me too much of dselect. :)
I started using Debian around 1999 (slink?), and it was pre- or early-days
of apt. I could never get through the install, because I had a mental block
against dselect. Try as I might, I can't get past the resemblance of
aptitude's interactive mode.


> - for a quick search by name or description I use 'apt-cache search',
>   because it's faster
>

I use apt-cache and apt-file together on both my workstation and laptop.


> - for complex searches (and possibly actions on the set of packages a
>   search would return) aptitude is better
> - for maintenance of stable systems I prefer apt-get (update && upgrade
>   && dist-upgrade) because it's fast and simple.
>

Agreed. this is the only way I upgrade. I run a sid desktop and a sid
laptop. However, I don't upgrade nearly as often. I run apticron to keep an
eye on critical packages, either function or urgency.


> - for quickly installing a package I prefer apt-get (faster) except for
>   my sid system where aptitude is already open
> - etc.
>
> Recently aptitude's dependency resolver also couldn't come up with
> reasonable solutions for some transitions in sid, so I used apt-get
> instead.
>

I have seen this too. I'm not a fan of the dependency resolution in
aptitude. Generally, it gives me a number of non-optimal solutions. I'm not
sure what logic gets used, but I have seen cases where it wants to
uninstall major portions of the system because a package needs to be
upgraded.


>  For a dist-upgrade you should use whatever is advised in the Release
> Notes for that release, regardless of your usual preferences.
>

Actually, nowadays, I end up having to dist-upgrade to get new kernels,
etc. Which kind of defeats the *dist* part of dist-upgade.

Regards,
--b

Re: Why Debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 19:10 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> on my Xubuntu installations the launch bar at the bottom
> of the screen is always 100% of the screen width.  On Debian it is as
> wide as the icons and no wider.  Setting the Xubuntu Xfce settings to
> match those on Debian results in no change.

So, if you set the panel preferences to less than 100% it has got no
effect? It sounds like a bug. If you didn't use expanded separators but
tons of not expanded separators, this might or might not cause such an
issue. Did you check if something invisible does stretch the panel? What
happens if you uncheck the option to automatically increase the length
of the panel?


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keepalived and ipvsadm

[Roman Gelfand]

I am trying to setup load balancing for smtp servers.  Seemingly, the
configuration file is ok.

ipvsadm -l doesn't return anything

My keepalive.conf is

global_defs  {
lvs_id  LVS_1
}
vrrp_instance  VI_1  {
   interface  eth1
   state  MASTER
   virtual_router_id  51
   priority  101 # 101 on master, 100 on backup
   advert_int  1
   smtp_alert
authentication  {
auth_type  PASS
auth_pass  pass

}

   virtual_ipaddress  {
   192.168.0.249/24  brd  192.168.0.255  dev  eth0
}

 VIRTUAL_SERVER  192.168.0.249  25  {
   delay_loop  60
   lb_algo  rr
   lb_kind  DR
   protocol  TCP
   persistence_timeout  360

   real_server 192.168.0.245 25 {
   weight 1
   TCP_CHECK {
   connect_timeout 3
   connect_port 25
   nb_get_retry 3
   delay_before_retry 3
   }
   }
   real_server 192.168.0.244 25 {
   weight 1
   TCP_CHECK {
   connect_timeout 3
   connect_port 25
   nb_get_retry 3
   delay_before_retry 3
   }
   }
}


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Re: Why Debian

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2013 19 Nov 16:48 -0600, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> What should be different? Just the version and perhaps how some services
> are started. It's the same for my Arch install and my FreeBSD install,
> just the Xfce versions differ. Xfce is Xfce is Xfce.

Interestingly, on my Xubuntu installations the launch bar at the bottom
of the screen is always 100% of the screen width.  On Debian it is as
wide as the icons and no wider.  Setting the Xubuntu Xfce settings to
match those on Debian results in no change.

Other than that, the default theme, and the software updates, they're
quite similar.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us


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Re: testing wants to install systemd

[Scott Ferguson]

On 20/11/13 11:19, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis. 

H. Testing *and* depend.
Depend and stable makes sense, but "depend" and "constant state of flux"
- not so much. :/

I'd clone your "work" machine in VirtualBox (P2V) and test the upgrade
in the VM first before proceeding to upgrade the production box. But I
wouldn't expect even 3nines from Testing (good as it is, it's still
Testing).



Kind regards


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Re: testing wants to install systemd

[Scott Ferguson]

On 20/11/13 11:19, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily 
> basis.  I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install
> systemd. I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear?

Not usually.
It might pay to --purge any "to be uninstalled" and "uninstalled"
packages - *especially* if the removed package still has an entry in
/etc/init.d *first*.

> For those who have installed it, does the system handle the switch
> from the old init scripts,

Yes. On a "stock" system.

> or is there a lot of manual intervention and time required?

No.

> 
> -Rob
> 


The usual provisos apply:-
;Your mileage may vary
;backup and backup
;if it breaks you get to keep both pieces


Kind regards


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Re: testing wants to install systemd

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 19:19 -0500, Rob Owens wrote:
> I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
> basis.  I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
> I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear?  For those who
> have installed it, does the system handle the switch from the old init
> scripts, or is there a lot of manual intervention and time required?

Are you sure that it is installed to replace init? Perhaps systemd isn't
used, but needed as a hard dependency? Or they stopped separating udev
from systemd, by upstream they are merged.


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testing wants to install systemd

[Rob Owens]

I run a testing system that I depend on to get work done on a daily
basis.  I noticed today that a dist-upgrade wanted to install systemd.
I've never used systemd -- is there anything to fear?  For those who
have installed it, does the system handle the switch from the old init
scripts, or is there a lot of manual intervention and time required?

-Rob


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Scott Ferguson]

On 20/11/13 04:45, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Linux-Fan wrote:
>> On 11/19/2013 03:20 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> If needing to read a "man page",
>>> http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi exists.
>>> Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed by the
>>> info command.
>>> { A Linux machine is not always available ;}
>>>
>>> TIA
>>
>> Most programs which have additional information in info pages (or no man
>> pages at all) are GNU software, so it might be a good idea to start with
>>
>> http://www.gnu.org/manual/
>>
>> One of the few programs I know which are not properly documented with
>> man but info is GRUB. The page above leads you directly to the GRUB
>> documentation which looks similar to the info page to me.
>>
>> Also, you can google "GNU Info Pages online" without quotes. I just
>> found http://linux.about.com/od/lts_guide/a/gdelts69t02.htm by entering
>> that query which also suggests the first page I have mentioned.
>>
>> HTH
>> Linux-Fan
>>
> 
> You are right on so many counts ;)
> 
> I was looking, this time, for information on GRUB. I had done a half
> dozen Google searches, but with poor choice of keywords.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 

Your Debian system has a lot of *info*rmation on GRUB, but not in the
man file :)

For the primary documentation on GRUB2 try:-
$ info grub

Additionally you can install "doc-central" and "dwww", both of which
index your system documentation (including your man pages) and a local
web search interface.

Want more?  Try "dhelp" which works similar to doc-central and dwww
(HTML docs only). There's also "mansearch" which creates a central index
of man pages and provides a local web search interface.





Kind regards


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Re: Debian Wheezy, Gnome 3, and nVidia graphics cards

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 19 nov 13, 22:57:41, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> 
> I just ran this just now (not expecting to find anything since the machine
> is fine) and I see it produces a detailed process list as a one-off. I will
> run when the problem hits as you suggested. Anything in particular you are
> looking for? Or you just want to know what is at the top of the list?

Since you actually reported freezes due to high load I'm hopping to find 
the culprit in the process list.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Automatic installs

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 19 nov 13, 17:28:27, Brad Alexander wrote:
> Sorry. Replied privately instead of to the list...

And I'll elaborate on my short reply as promised.

> Way back in the mists of time, around the time of the squeeze release, I
> asked here and it was recommended to use apt rather than aptitude...
> 
> I'm guessing the best practice has changed...?

Each has its strengths and weaknesses and I use both:

- on my sid laptop I have an aptitude in interactive mode open all the 
  time, to keep the system updated (almost daily), to look up package 
  information, to check out new packages, to remove obsolete ones and 
  other general maintenance of the system
- for a quick search by name or description I use 'apt-cache search', 
  because it's faster
- for complex searches (and possibly actions on the set of packages a 
  search would return) aptitude is better
- for maintenance of stable systems I prefer apt-get (update && upgrade 
  && dist-upgrade) because it's fast and simple.
- for quickly installing a package I prefer apt-get (faster) except for 
  my sid system where aptitude is already open
- etc.

Recently aptitude's dependency resolver also couldn't come up with 
reasonable solutions for some transitions in sid, so I used apt-get 
instead.

For a dist-upgrade you should use whatever is advised in the Release 
Notes for that release, regardless of your usual preferences.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 16:29 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Averaged computer users very often replace the subject and body of a
> > message, IOW they only keep the address to write a new mail. They aren't
> > aware, that they keep some magic note that is hidden in a magical
> > header. I suspect that Gmail doesn't support it for good reasons.
> 
> They do so many other heavy handed things it would be easy if they
> stripped out the In-Reply-To and References headers if someone
> completely changed the subject to something different.  Still
> incorrect but at least less annoying.

That's a good idea for this kind of web-mailers + those web-mailers
should default to plain text.

Incorrect, but I agree, it's not a bad idea.

:)


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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Bob Proulx]

Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Averaged computer users very often replace the subject and body of a
> message, IOW they only keep the address to write a new mail. They aren't
> aware, that they keep some magic note that is hidden in a magical
> header. I suspect that Gmail doesn't support it for good reasons.

They do so many other heavy handed things it would be easy if they
stripped out the In-Reply-To and References headers if someone
completely changed the subject to something different.  Still
incorrect but at least less annoying.

> Mails sorted by thread for the averaged Gmail user would cause much
> confusion and claims that Gmail should be buggy. They likely try to
> protect users against confusion and Gmail against a bad reputation
> for the masses. I don't know Gmail myself, but it sounds like it's
> perfectly pimped out for the masses.

You are very likely correct considering how popular it is with the
masses.

Bob


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Re: IA64 zx2000 boot problems

[Bob Proulx]

Eberhard Heuser wrote:
> I want to install the newest debian version on my Itanium zx2000 machine.
>
> The system crashes shortly after elilo is started. I've seen some reports
> about this problem but I cannot find any solution in the postings.

That is rather special hardware.  I think it is cool that you are
running it.  But very few people will have that hardware these days.
(I used to have one running under my desk.)

I suggest that you would have better luck getting help with it on the
Debian ia64 mailing list.  That would be the audience who is running
on the same architecture as you.

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-ia64/

Good luck!
Bob


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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 16:04 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Andre Majorel wrote:
> > Or don't mailers show threads any more ?
> 
> Actually many popular (but incorrect) mail user agents do not show
> threads.  Previously the biggest offender was Outlook.  These days the
> biggest offender is Gmail.  I find it very surprising that a mail user
> agent wouldn't handle theads.  I forgive mailx for not handling
> threads but Gmail?  Especially these days.  Gmail should handle
> message threads.
> 
> Gmail uses a "group by subject line" model.  It is definitely not the
> same as a threaded conversation.  In Gmail if the subject line
> changes, something that has always been a good practice when the topic
> has drifted, then the message is displayed unattached to any previous
> message.  Worse is that if an unrelated message has the same subject
> then it is grouped together into the same "group by subject" even if
> it has no relationship to the previous email.

Averaged computer users very often replace the subject and body of a
message, IOW they only keep the address to write a new mail. They aren't
aware, that they keep some magic note that is hidden in a magical
header. I suspect that Gmail doesn't support it for good reasons. Mails
sorted by thread for the averaged Gmail user would cause much confusion
and claims that Gmail should be buggy. They likely try to protect users
against confusion and Gmail against a bad reputation for the masses. I
don't know Gmail myself, but it sounds like it's perfectly pimped out
for the masses.



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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Bob Proulx]

Andre Majorel wrote:
> Or don't mailers show threads any more ?

Actually many popular (but incorrect) mail user agents do not show
threads.  Previously the biggest offender was Outlook.  These days the
biggest offender is Gmail.  I find it very surprising that a mail user
agent wouldn't handle theads.  I forgive mailx for not handling
threads but Gmail?  Especially these days.  Gmail should handle
message threads.

Gmail uses a "group by subject line" model.  It is definitely not the
same as a threaded conversation.  In Gmail if the subject line
changes, something that has always been a good practice when the topic
has drifted, then the message is displayed unattached to any previous
message.  Worse is that if an unrelated message has the same subject
then it is grouped together into the same "group by subject" even if
it has no relationship to the previous email.

Bob


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LibreOffice Base replacement

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 11/20/13, Joe  wrote:
> At the moment I'm trying
> hard to make LibreOffice Base do some of the things
> Access was doing in 1995, without crashing.
> It is around half-way usable, as long as I
> don't want it to do anything more complicated than
> phpmyadmin can do with data, which isn't much.

Yes LibreOffice Base needs some love.

Have you considered something Eclipse-based, eg Google's WindowBuilder:
https://developers.google.com/java-dev-tools/wbpro/

>From memory I think there are other libre options for Eclipse, but
it's been a couple years since I last did a round of re-searching.

If you do find something appealing, please report back,
Zenaan


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Re: Debian Wheezy, Gnome 3, and nVidia graphics cards

[Mark Fletcher]

Andrei POPESCU  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> 
> Could you please try to run following command before killing gdm3 and 
> post the output here?
> 
> top -b -n 1
> 
> Kind regards,
> Andrei


Thanks Andrei, I will try this at the weekend, machine is running critical
tasks while the markets are open so I'm in Gnome Classic for now. Thanks for
the tip.

I just ran this just now (not expecting to find anything since the machine
is fine) and I see it produces a detailed process list as a one-off. I will
run when the problem hits as you suggested. Anything in particular you are
looking for? Or you just want to know what is at the top of the list?

Thanks

Mark


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Re: Why Debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 23:46 +0100, Slavko wrote:
> I sometime somewhere read, that Ubuntu is 93 % of Debian and only rest
> 7 % packages are changed/added.

Debian binary packages for 32-bit architecture are build to run on older
computers, than packages for Ubuntu, so they are at least rebuild from
Debian sources.



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Re: Hardware support for Thinkpad X230?

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 11/20/13, Richard Lawrence  wrote:
> I am considering buying a Lenovo Thinkpad X230, and I am wondering if
> anyone on this list has advice to share about the hardware.

I usually use thinkwiki.org

> It looks like most, but not all, of the standard hardware is supported
> under Wheezy.  Specifically, the microphone and (some) hotkeys don't
> seem to work:
> https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/X230/wheezy

I have an X220 (previous gen). I've run wheezy successfully, currently
running sid.

I don't remember testing the mic, but found the line out/headphone
line to always have a little electronic hum in background, even whens
sound is muted. Was too lazy to try a warranty repair on it.

CTRL ALT SHIFT WINDOWS/LOG and APPLICATION/LOGO2
with F1 .. F12, A..Z, 0..9

is a few key combos you can use. Plenty for me. Also, it's a small
compact keyboard - which particular keys are you wanting to know
about? There is an "Fn" key, perhaps that? Anyway just try tpb if
something doesn't work.

>  I
> am particularly concerned about:
>   - wifi: any reason to prefer the Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2200 or the
> Centrino Advanced-N 6205?

I don't think so. Pretty sure I specced mine upwards.

> What about the "2x2" vs. "3x3" antenna?

3x3 antenna clashes with built in 3G modem (on X220 at least - not
sure about X230).

>   - SSD: any issues (besides the bug listed on the wiki) using an
> after-market SSD?

Haven't tested yet. I bought when a decent sale/bundle-special was
happening. Try thinkwiki.org

>   - suspend/resume: Arch wiki reports suspend does not work in some
> cases, but lists some workarounds; has anyone been unable to get
> suspend/resume working?

Hibernate works fine for me. Occasionally have to cycle through
re-hibernate if an external screen is a bit flickery - but I haven't
updated kernel for a couple months either.

> I would also be curious to know what kind of real-world battery life
> people get from an X230 running Debian.

X220 is awesome with 9-cell battery. I then add the slice battery and
got a good 12 hours from memory (been a while since I ran both
batteries to their limit). Nowadays, I only ever need a few hours, and
even hanging off an external USB HDD I don't get through the 9-cell by
itself. My usage.

I suspect with newer gen CPUs it should be a bit better still.

Good luck
Zenaan


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Re: Why Debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 21:55 +, Tom H wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Alex Naysmith  
> wrote:
> > I'm pleasantly surprised with just how similar Debian XFCE and Xubuntu are,
> > which makes me wonder if there are any major differences at all.
> 
> Differences: upstart and plymouth; the rest _might_ be quite similar.

What should be different? Just the version and perhaps how some services
are started. It's the same for my Arch install and my FreeBSD install,
just the Xfce versions differ. Xfce is Xfce is Xfce.



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Re: Why Debian

[Slavko]

Hi,

Dňa Tue, 19 Nov 2013 21:55:41 + Tom H  napísal:

> > I'm pleasantly surprised with just how similar Debian XFCE and
> > Xubuntu are, which makes me wonder if there are any major
> > differences at all.
> 
> Please bottom post.
> 
> Differences: upstart and plymouth; the rest _might_ be quite similar.
> 

I sometime somewhere read, that Ubuntu is 93 % of Debian and only rest
7 % packages are changed/added.

BTW: Plymouth was nice, i used it a long time in Debian, then something
was wrong and i purged it.

regards

-- 
Slavko
http://slavino.sk


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Re: Automatic installs

[Bob Proulx]

Brad Alexander wrote:
> Way back in the mists of time, around the time of the squeeze release, I
> asked here and it was recommended to use apt rather than aptitude...
> 
> I'm guessing the best practice has changed...?

It has changed back and forth several times.  At the present time both
are mostly functional and both can be used mostly interchangeably.
Feel free to use one for one command and the other one for another
command back to back on the command line.

However each has their proponents.  I like one.  Other people like the
other.  Each are advocating for the reasons they like one tool or the
other better.

Since the way the features are implemented are quite different user
interfaces I don't see these two camps converging any time soon.
Because since the interfaces are so very different then if you like
using one you almost certainly won't like using the other.  And the
reverse.

Fortunately in the apt versus aptitude issue each of the tools work
quite well and without opposing damage.  It isn't like some of the
other notorious flamewars that have risen where one of the tools was
actively damaging other parts of the system.  (shudder)

Bob


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Re: persistent-net.rules for fixed ethX names and VLANs

[Pascal Hambourg]

Hello,

Steffen Dettmer a écrit :
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Steffen Dettmer
>  wrote:
>> I have persistent-net.rules in form:
>>
>>   SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="eth*" ACTION=="add",
>> ATTR{address}=="40:d8:55:09:43:0f", NAME="eth3"
>>
>> How to use fixed ethX device names and VLAN devices at the same time?

The behaviour you describe does not happen on a standard Debian system.
I guess it is because the standard rules have the DRIVERS="?*"
condition. A "real" network interface has the (non-null) driver name in
its parent device and thus matches the rule, whereas a "virtual" VLAN
interface does not.

> I found a workaround that seems to solve my issue. At the end of
> persistent net rules or a "higher" file I added:
> 
>   # Avoid renaming of VLAN interfaces:
>   SUBSYSTEM=="net", KERNEL=="eth*.*" ACTION=="add", NAME="$kernel"
> 
> Of course this only works as long as following the naming
> convention to call the VLAN interface "eth." with  being
> the number of the VLAN tag, for example "eth3.77".

It does not matter : the other naming convention vlan won't match the
rule and thus won't be renamed, which is the desired behaviour IIUC.


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Re: Automatic installs

[Brad Alexander]

Sorry. Replied privately instead of to the list...

Way back in the mists of time, around the time of the squeeze release, I
asked here and it was recommended to use apt rather than aptitude...

I'm guessing the best practice has changed...?


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:50 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Du, 17 nov 13, 16:39:10, Neal Murphy wrote:
> >
> > Actually, if efficiency was important, the --purge option would accept a
> > regex. Or there'd be a --purgex option.
>
> Behold the power of aptitude
>
> aptitude purge ~c
> aptitude purge ~o
> ...
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
> Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
> http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt
>

Re: who uses dual boot? [was: How to start using a free OS]

[Joe]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 15:53:23 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

> Le 12.11.2013 19:46, Joe a écrit :
> > The government of my country requires pretty much all business 
> > taxation
> > to be dealt with by their own software over the Net, and though they
> > offer a Linux fig-leaf, it doesn't cover much e.g. needs 32 bit
> > support, which no longer exists in sid (no, it doesn't work in a
> > 32-bit Wheezy VM on 64 bit sid). I don't do that work on the
> > laptop, so
> > the dual-boot isn't really relevant, but it is another reason that
> > I do
> > need to keep Windows around the house.
> 
> And what about multi-arch?
> You could add the i386 arch to your amd64 install, and then try to 
> install that software. It is what I did for skype, and what is also 
> needed for wine, now.

I don't know, I ran out of time, and now the wretched software is
running properly on my wife's machine at the other end of a remote
desktop, with the machine doing wake-on-lan, so it will be some time
before anything further gets done.

I'm not actually a computer professional, and I do resent having to
waste large amounts of time making things work. At the moment I'm trying
hard to make LibreOffice Base do some of the things Access was doing in
1995, without crashing. It is around half-way usable, as long as I
don't want it to do anything more complicated than phpmyadmin can do
with data, which isn't much.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Why Debian

[Tom H]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Alex Naysmith  wrote:
> On 19 November 2013 20:13, Alois Mahdal 
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 14:40:57 +0100
>> berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
>>>
>>> So, I think that the problems you had with untrusted packages
>>> can be:
>>> 1) your fault: did you install the key?
>>> 2) mate developer's fault, if they did not provided one.
>>> 3) your package management software's fault.
>>
>> 4) there is an actual ongoing MITM attack.
>>
>> Isn't it ironic, how we people tend to forget about real
>> meaning of own alarms? *Especially* those of us who
>> really understand them?
>
> I previously used Xubuntu and was very happy with it until Software Centre
> superseded Synaptic as the default graphical package manager.
>
> Software Centre is just horrible and slow and no good for old computers.
> Arch takes too long to set up and can cause head-aches when Pacman -Syu
> makes significant changes (such as the change from HAL to udev). I've not
> tried OpenSuse, but it does look interesting.
>
> I'm pleasantly surprised with just how similar Debian XFCE and Xubuntu are,
> which makes me wonder if there are any major differences at all.

Please bottom post.

Differences: upstart and plymouth; the rest _might_ be quite similar.


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Re: Why Debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 20:54 +, Alex Naysmith wrote:
> Arch [...] can cause head-aches when Pacman -Syu makes significant
> changes

If so, then the problem exists between keyboard and chair. Before you
run pacman -Syu (an update), you should take a look at the Arch
homepage, no link on the homepage, directly take a look at the start
site, https://www.archlinux.org/ . It's a rolling release, so
transitions sometimes happen, e.g. for the FSH and this indeed could be
tricky, but the steps are explained on the homepage and usually a
transition does cause much noise, so even if you usually ignore news for
your distro and make updates without knowing what you're doing, at least
when there's much noise about a topic, it's time to take a look at the
update notes, before doing an update.

This btw. is the same for Debian and other distros, resp. when it isn't
needed, than this comes with other drawbacks. Debian stable won't make a
transition, but the side effect is, that a Debian stable user can't
contribute to upstream and upstream can't help when stable does use
version 0.5, while upstream already is at upstream-stable release
version 8.4.


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Re: Why Debian

[Alex Naysmith]

I previously used Xubuntu and was very happy with it until Software Centre
superseded Synaptic as the default graphical package manager.

Software Centre is just horrible and slow and no good for old computers.
Arch takes too long to set up and can cause head-aches when Pacman -Syu
makes significant changes (such as the change from HAL to udev). I've not
tried OpenSuse, but it does look interesting.

I'm pleasantly surprised with just how similar Debian XFCE and Xubuntu are,
which makes me wonder if there are any major differences at all.


On 19 November 2013 20:13, Alois Mahdal wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 14:40:57 +0100
> berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> >
> > So, I think that the problems you had with untrusted packages
> > can be:
> > 1) your fault: did you install the key?
> > 2) mate developer's fault, if they did not provided one.
> > 3) your package management software's fault.
>
> 4) there is an actual ongoing MITM attack.
>
> Isn't it ironic, how we people tend to forget about real
> meaning of own alarms?  *Especially* those of us who
> really understand them?
>
>
> aL.
> --
> Alois Mahdal
>
>
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>
>

Re: Why Debian

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 21:26 +0100, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
> The pool of Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, ubuntu is the same

That is correct, but the projects contribute to the pool. Ubuntu Studio
is based on Xubuntu, but Ubuntu Studio e.g. contributes a customized
main menu for this pool. Yes, you can install Kubuntu and then replace
KDE with Xfce and add the Ubuntu Studio meta packages. All those
projects fit to the Ubuntu policy, so you need a PPA to get e.g.
linux-rt by a repository.

The advertisings for Ubuntu are present when e.g. starting Thunderbird
for the first time and when opening the software crap thingy, you see
prices for some apps, while some apps are not shown.

Some of those projects try to get rid of some of that capitalistic crap,
so it can make a difference with what project you start, even while they
all share the same policy and repositories.

When Ubuntu was new, they called me a troll when I said something about
Mark Shuttleworth, but all I said became true :). I'm satisfied ;).


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Mixing + HDMI audio

[Felix Natter]

hi,

my HDMI audio device works fine with one application (Flash, aplay, pidgin),
but not if some sources play at the same time (i.e. I watch a video and
want to get pidgin notification sounds while at it).

I used the 'hdmi' device:

$ aplay -L
default
Playback/recording through the PulseAudio sound server
hdmi:CARD=MID,DEV=0
HDA Intel MID, HDMI 0
HDMI Audio Output
sysdefault:CARD=PCH
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
Default Audio Device
front:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
Front speakers
surround40:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
surround41:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround50:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
surround51:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
surround71:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Analog
7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
iec958:CARD=PCH,DEV=0
HDA Intel PCH, ALC887-VD Digital
IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output

and then, if another source like flash is playing:

$ LANG=C aplay /usr/share/sounds/purple/send.wav -D hdmi
aplay: main:722: audio open error: Device or resource busy

I tried the solution mentioned here:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Software_mixing_.28dmix.29
but this did not change anything :-/

Do I have to try the hacks described here, or is there possibly an
easier solution (like not breaking pulseaudio apps)?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Troubleshooting

Thank you very much,
-- 
Felix Natter


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Re: Can't Access DVD-ROM, Inspiron 8100

[davetesc]

Hi just found your post re accessing cdrom in debian testing, have same 
problem sometimes and just found simple solution if you don't mind using 
CLI using wodim, here's the page I found.


http://how-to.linuxcareer.com/how-to-mount-cdrom-in-linux#h5-allowing-users-to-mount-cdrom

for me I used ,
$ wodim /dev/sr0
  ^ this is a zero

I get this problem on and off I think because I use dolphin even though 
I am running XFCE so I think it sometimes clashes with the default file 
manager.


Hope this helps you.

Regards,

   davetesc.


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Re: Why Debian

[Nemeth Gyorgy]

2013-11-19 14:40 keltezéssel, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org írta:

> Do not take me wrong, I do not say that Debian is not as good or better
> that Ubuntu (I think it is better, especially in terms of flexibility:
> there are more than one DE maintained in the distribution, instead of
> having a distro fork for each DE... this approach is just ugly for me,
> but is interesting for simple users not used to have choice. Choice
> costs time, and some people do not want it for that reason.). It's
> simply that your argumentation lacks strength, and should never convince
> any user which knows Debian and Ubuntu.
> 
> 
Actually it is not a distro fork. The pool of Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu,
ubuntu is the same (the sources.list is the same for all). You
can consider the different 'distributions' as different install sets for
the same distribution with different default environments and settings.
There are metapackages for all the 'distributions' so choosing one or
another is just an apt-get install and selecting the newly installed
desktop as default.

-- 
--- Friczy ---
'Death is not a bug, it's a feature'


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Re: Why Debian

[Alois Mahdal]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 14:40:57 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
>
> So, I think that the problems you had with untrusted packages
> can be:
> 1) your fault: did you install the key?
> 2) mate developer's fault, if they did not provided one.
> 3) your package management software's fault.

4) there is an actual ongoing MITM attack.

Isn't it ironic, how we people tend to forget about real
meaning of own alarms?  *Especially* those of us who
really understand them?


aL.
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Re: [OT] P* language web page (Was: Re: P* - New language for web programming)

[Alois Mahdal]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 21:01:22 +0100
Alois Mahdal  wrote:
> I see you are using Github for the code and issue tracking.
> Many projects do this for the documentation as well, and even
> for main presentation page or other related projects, as
> separate parallel repos.  I think this approach makes it way
> easier to contribute on various levels.

Oh my bad, I haven't checked properly.  Now I can see you are
already doing that (all in one repo)...  Please ignore the above
then :)

> 
> Thanks,
> aL.


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Re: [OT] P* language web page (Was: Re: P* - New language for web programming)

[Alois Mahdal]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 00:50:10 +0100
Atle Solbakken  wrote:

> Den 18. nov. 2013 22:45, skrev Alois Mahdal:
> 
> Anyway, I changed the page and used the good old "900px wide
> centered page with 16px font size"-trick, looks better now?

I think it's almost perfect.  (Note that with us, QA people, you
never get better than that :D)

With this out of way, some other little things come out. (I
think we're getting little bit OT-spammy, the rest of this
mail tries to address that as well):

*   Reference to the Google mailing list does not make it clear
how to register there, or give link to Howto page.  I'm
assuming there is similar interface as for this list?

*   Cosmetic, but: the header logo is exactly touching the top
of the window.

  http://imgur.com/Yf3RzGn

*   `/` is automatically redirected to `/cgi-bin/what_is`.
I understand that you want to have the page in P* (which
is great approach) and it might not yet support proper
routing, but this can cause unnecessary pain in future:
everyone (including bots) will bookmark this URL so once
you change it to a nicer form (either by implementing
proper routing or changing structure of the page), everyone
will get 404s or you will need to keep this URI and send
3xx's for some time.

So if possible, I'd redirect at least `/` in some
transparent manner, i.e. serve identical content as for
`/cgi-bin/what_is`.

*   Also I think it's kind of unwritten standard to have the
main logo link to the page home, i.e. `/`.

*   I just randomly spotted a typo at `/cgi-bin/how_to_run` --
s/favourute/favourite/


I see you are using Github for the code and issue tracking.
Many projects do this for the documentation as well, and even
for main presentation page or other related projects, as
separate parallel repos.  I think this approach makes it way
easier to contribute on various levels.

Thanks,
aL.
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Re: Why Debian

[Tom H]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM,   wrote:
> Le 19.11.2013 03:04, Tamer Higazi a écrit :
>>
>> 2. As well, specially the Gnome3 system ubuntu delivers by default makes
>> me puke!
>
> This one is not. Ubuntu uses Unity as default DE, not gnome3. There was a
> lot of noise about that new DE when the first version appeared.

Unity is a GNOME 3 shell, in the same way that gnome-shell and cinnamon are.


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Tom H]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Andrei POPESCU
 wrote:
> On Ma, 19 nov 13, 17:17:45, Tom H wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>>>
>>> If needing to read a "man page", http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi
>>> exists.
>>> Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed by the info
>>> command.
>>
>> You shouldn't need the info pages because it's a bug for a Debian
>> executable not to have a man page.
>>
>> So, for example, "man grub-install" works on a Debian box but doesn't
>> on a box running another distribution.
>
> From grep(1):
>
>TeXinfo Documentation
>The  full  documentation  for grep is maintained as a TeXinfo
>manual, which you can read at
>http://www.gnu.org/software/grep/manual/.  If the
>info and grep programs are properly installed at your site, the command
>
>   info grep
>
>should give you access to the complete manual.
>
> NOTES
>This man page is maintained only fitfully; the full documentation
>is often more up-to-date.

Thanks. I've never noticed this before. IMO, grep's violating the
spirit of Debian's policy. Whether it's violating the letter of
Debian's policy open to interpretation...


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Brian]

On Tue 19 Nov 2013 at 12:29:26 -0600, John Hasler wrote:

> Neal Murphy writes:
> > Sometimes I think it should be a bug to have a useless man page in
> > place.
> 
> It is.  Sometimes filing a bug report with a correct man page
> attached will get action.  Don't bother filing such a report against any
> of the numerous GUI programs that lack either man or info pages, though.
> It will be closed immediately, often with a hostile remark. 

Once upon a time there was such a discussion (having man pages for GUI
programs) in debian-devel. This is obviously not the first post in the
thread:

   http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/03/msg00115.html  


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Hardware support for Thinkpad X230?

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi all,

I am considering buying a Lenovo Thinkpad X230, and I am wondering if
anyone on this list has advice to share about the hardware.  

It looks like most, but not all, of the standard hardware is supported
under Wheezy.  Specifically, the microphone and (some) hotkeys don't
seem to work:

https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/X230/wheezy

That page, however, has a note saying "This is a work in progress; do
not trust this page until this note disappears", and was last updated in
August.  

I am wondering if anyone has had any luck getting these last pieces of
hardware to work (just curious---they are not crucial for me), and if
there are any other hardware or installation gotchas to be aware of.  I
am particularly concerned about:
  - wifi: any reason to prefer the Intel Centrino Wireless-N 2200 or the
Centrino Advanced-N 6205? What about the "2x2" vs. "3x3" antenna?
  - SSD: any issues (besides the bug listed on the wiki) using an
after-market SSD?
  - suspend/resume: Arch wiki reports suspend does not work in some
cases, but lists some workarounds; has anyone been unable to get
suspend/resume working?

I would also be curious to know what kind of real-world battery life
people get from an X230 running Debian.

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

Best,
Richard


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[John Hasler]

Neal Murphy writes:
> Sometimes I think it should be a bug to have a useless man page in
> place.

It is.  Sometimes filing a bug report with a correct man page
attached will get action.  Don't bother filing such a report against any
of the numerous GUI programs that lack either man or info pages, though.
It will be closed immediately, often with a hostile remark.  
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Neal Murphy]

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:45:53 PM Richard Owlett wrote:
> Linux-Fan wrote:
> > Also, you can google "GNU Info Pages online" without quotes. I just
> > found http://linux.about.com/od/lts_guide/a/gdelts69t02.htm by entering
> > that query which also suggests the first page I have mentioned.
> > 
> > HTH
> > Linux-Fan
> 
> You are right on so many counts ;)
> 
> I was looking, this time, for information on GRUB. I had done a
> half dozen Google searches, but with poor choice of keywords.

I've found that searching for 'man topic' takes me right to many pages with 
topic's manuals. linux.die.net, tldp.net, and even man.cx now, are a few other 
typical sites.

I've also found that info pages on debian often have nothing more than the 
respective man page, and man pages often contain cursory information. 
Sometimes I think it should be a bug to have a useless man page in place.


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Richard Owlett]

Linux-Fan wrote:

On 11/19/2013 03:20 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

If needing to read a "man page",
http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi exists.
Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed by the
info command.
{ A Linux machine is not always available ;}

TIA


Most programs which have additional information in info pages (or no man
pages at all) are GNU software, so it might be a good idea to start with

http://www.gnu.org/manual/

One of the few programs I know which are not properly documented with
man but info is GRUB. The page above leads you directly to the GRUB
documentation which looks similar to the info page to me.

Also, you can google "GNU Info Pages online" without quotes. I just
found http://linux.about.com/od/lts_guide/a/gdelts69t02.htm by entering
that query which also suggests the first page I have mentioned.

HTH
Linux-Fan



You are right on so many counts ;)

I was looking, this time, for information on GRUB. I had done a 
half dozen Google searches, but with poor choice of keywords.


Thank you.


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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 19 nov 13, 17:17:45, Tom H wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >
> > If needing to read a "man page", http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi
> > exists.
> > Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed by the info
> > command.
> 
> You shouldn't need the info pages because it's a bug for a Debian
> executable not to have a man page.
> 
> So, for example, "man grub-install" works on a Debian box but doesn't
> on a box running another distribution.

From grep(1):


   TeXinfo Documentation
   The  full  documentation  for grep is maintained as a TeXinfo 
   manual, which you can read at 
   http://www.gnu.org/software/grep/manual/.  If the
   info and grep programs are properly installed at your site, the command

  info grep

   should give you access to the complete manual.

NOTES
   This man page is maintained only fitfully; the full documentation 
   is often more up-to-date.


Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Debian Wheezy, Gnome 3, and nVidia graphics cards

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 19 nov 13, 22:40:56, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> 
> I am running Gnome launched from GDM3. When I select regular Gnome (ie
> "new" Gnome with the bells and whistles) it works for a while and then
> randomly freezes -- often but not exclusively when I am trying to switch
> desktops, watch a video, or do something like that. Once it freezes, the
> load on the machine starts going up and up and up until eventually the
> machine becomes completely unresponsive in all ways and there's no recourse
> but to reboot. If I am quick, I can log in remotely from another machine,
> kill GDM3, and the machine recovers to a text terminal, where I can log in
> and relaunch GDM3. Then everything works for a while, until the cycle
> repeats.

Could you please try to run following command before killing gdm3 and 
post the output here?

top -b -n 1

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Why Debian

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 19 nov 13, 14:40:57, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
> 
> You could probably change the sources, and try an "upgrade" from
> Ubuntu to Debian, too. This would probably need some tinkering or
> web searching, but I bet it is doable.

Doable? Probably. Recommended? Definitely not!

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Tom H]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Richard Owlett  wrote:
>
> If needing to read a "man page", http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi
> exists.
> Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed by the info
> command.

You shouldn't need the info pages because it's a bug for a Debian
executable not to have a man page.

So, for example, "man grub-install" works on a Debian box but doesn't
on a box running another distribution.


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IA64 zx2000 boot problems

[Eberhard Heuser]

Hi all,
 
I want to install the newest debian version on my Itanium zx2000 machine.
 
The system crashes shortly after elilo is started. I've seen some reports
about this problem but I cannot find any solution in the postings.
 
thanx
Eberhard

Re: Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Linux-Fan]

On 11/19/2013 03:20 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> If needing to read a "man page",
> http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi exists.
> Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed by the
> info command.
> { A Linux machine is not always available ;}
> 
> TIA

Most programs which have additional information in info pages (or no man
pages at all) are GNU software, so it might be a good idea to start with

http://www.gnu.org/manual/

One of the few programs I know which are not properly documented with
man but info is GRUB. The page above leads you directly to the GRUB
documentation which looks similar to the info page to me.

Also, you can google "GNU Info Pages online" without quotes. I just
found http://linux.about.com/od/lts_guide/a/gdelts69t02.htm by entering
that query which also suggests the first page I have mentioned.

HTH
Linux-Fan

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Re: P* - New language for web programming

[Mihamina RKTMB]

On 11/19/2013 06:40 PM, Paul Scott wrote:

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 03:46:14PM +0100, Atle Solbakken wrote:

Den 19. nov. 2013 10:33, skrev Diep Pham Van:

I'm about to get the package, until I realize that there is no way to
get syntax highlighting with vim.


Hi

There's no VIM-plugin yet, do you know how to make one? Or should I
put it on the wishlist for now?

What about an Emacs plugin?

Paul





M-x c-mode and you should be done :-)

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Re: P* - New language for web programming

[Paul Scott]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 03:46:14PM +0100, Atle Solbakken wrote:
> Den 19. nov. 2013 10:33, skrev Diep Pham Van:
> >
> >I'm about to get the package, until I realize that there is no way to
> >get syntax highlighting with vim.
> >
> 
> Hi
> 
> There's no VIM-plugin yet, do you know how to make one? Or should I
> put it on the wishlist for now?

What about an Emacs plugin?

Paul



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Re: who uses dual boot? [was: How to start using a free OS]

[berenger . morel]

Le 12.11.2013 19:46, Joe a écrit :
The government of my country requires pretty much all business 
taxation

to be dealt with by their own software over the Net, and though they
offer a Linux fig-leaf, it doesn't cover much e.g. needs 32 bit
support, which no longer exists in sid (no, it doesn't work in a
32-bit Wheezy VM on 64 bit sid). I don't do that work on the laptop, 
so
the dual-boot isn't really relevant, but it is another reason that I 
do

need to keep Windows around the house.


And what about multi-arch?
You could add the i386 arch to your amd64 install, and then try to 
install that software. It is what I did for skype, and what is also 
needed for wine, now.
Speaking of wine, it might also help you on that particular point ( ok, 
I'm not honest here: I, in fact, just does not like wine at all. 
Softwares which only works sometimes does not interest me a lot... but 
it might help you. )



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Re: P* - New language for web programming

[Atle Solbakken]

Den 19. nov. 2013 10:33, skrev Diep Pham Van:


I'm about to get the package, until I realize that there is no way to
get syntax highlighting with vim.



Hi

There's no VIM-plugin yet, do you know how to make one? Or should I put 
it on the wishlist for now?



Atle.


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Re: P* - New language for web programming

[Atle Solbakken]

Den 19. nov. 2013 03:27, skrev legacy daily:
Atle - You have my respects for starting a massive undertaking like 
this. I quickly reviewed the manual and unfortunately felt P* was 
somewhat complex. Who is its target audience?


I maintain multiple sites and would like to find a tool to generate a 
complete site fairly effectively based on templates.


My initial impression was that I had to learn yet another language and 
it didn't appear simple.




Hi

I agree with the fact that the reference manual, which covers all of the 
language (at least almost), is kindof heavy to begin with.


I have now written a quick start guide which covers the areas in which 
P* differs from other languages.


http://www.p-star.org/cgi-bin/documentation

Is this easier to start with?


Atle.

Re: who uses dual boot? [was: How to start using a free OS]

[berenger . morel]

Le 12.11.2013 14:32, Miles Fidelman a écrit :

Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Tue, 2013-11-12 at 23:01 +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
Install a Linux and call it Windows 2014 - super professional 
special
admin edition and this kind of user will have no issue, call it 
Linux

and they will ask you to remove it and reinstall Windows again.

I agree :)

This is a good point.
Quasi the only point of my reply, so I should have send just this 
note.


Most dual Windows/Linux booters who used Windows for years never 
ever
seriously will switch to Linux. I suspect that many users have 
trouble
with Windows. When they switch to Linux they expect to get rid of 
the
trouble, but they will experience more, since the thing between 
monitor

and chair is the culprit and not the OS, so they likely will boot
Windows only.



That's a very interesting point, but I wonder if it's true.  There
are real-world reasons to run both windows on linux on the same
machine (personal example: running Linux on my laptop for development
and demonstrations; running Windows for office applications).

But, having said that, when one really uses two operating systems on
the same machine, I expect it's more common to run one under
virtualization, so you can run both at the same time - dual booting 
is

a real pain if one is really USING both operating systems.

What are other people's experiences?  How many folks here use Windows
(or Mac o/s) on the same machine as a linux distribution? Do you
dual-boot or do you virtualize?

Miles Fidelman


It is exactly the situation I had.

First, I was a DOS user. Then, windows (3.1) appeared (in my house), 
and I started to use both.
Several years later, I learned software programming, and other computer 
sciences by myself, and learned about linux. It sounded very nice, so I 
1st tried to install a Debian. I was not able to use it without a damned 
Xorg server, so get back to windows XP (I also tried Ubuntu, but 
disliked the GUI, which did not gave me as many possibilities as what I 
had with windows. In my knowledge of that time, of course.).


Some years later, I gave Debian another try. It had a DE installed by 
default, so I was able to use it. I had 2 hard drives, one with windows, 
and the other with Debian. Most of the time, I was on windows, because I 
was able to do much more things on windows ( games usually does not run 
as efficiently through wine, when they work, than on windows ).
At a moment, I was able to acquire old computers which could not make 
my games running, on them I installed Debian, again. Few month later, my 
windows computer died, forcing me to switch to Debian.


Now, I have bought powerful enough hardware to run my games, but I only 
rarely switch to windows, because I'm too used to Debian. If my computer 
did not died, or if I had enough money at that time to repair it, I 
would probably still be spending most of my time with windows.



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Finding pertinent inforation on WEB

[Richard Owlett]

If needing to read a "man page", 
http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi exists.
Is there an equivalent site to retrieve what would be displayed 
by the info command.

{ A Linux machine is not always available ;}

TIA


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Debian Wheezy, Gnome 3, and nVidia graphics cards

[Mark Fletcher]

Hello the list!

I am running Wheezy on a self-built Intel Core i7 920 with 24GB of RAM and
an nVidia GeForce 9800 GTX+ graphics card. I am using the nVidia
proprietary driver downloaded from the debian repository along with the
kernel module built by the usual Debian installation process.

I am running Gnome launched from GDM3. When I select regular Gnome (ie
"new" Gnome with the bells and whistles) it works for a while and then
randomly freezes -- often but not exclusively when I am trying to switch
desktops, watch a video, or do something like that. Once it freezes, the
load on the machine starts going up and up and up until eventually the
machine becomes completely unresponsive in all ways and there's no recourse
but to reboot. If I am quick, I can log in remotely from another machine,
kill GDM3, and the machine recovers to a text terminal, where I can log in
and relaunch GDM3. Then everything works for a while, until the cycle
repeats.

If, on the other hand, I select "Gnome Classic" at the login prompt, I can
log in, do everything I want, and stability is rock-solid -- it will go for
weeks on end (no exaggeration) between reboots without any sign of
difficulty. But then I don't get the bells and whistles :-)

I tried replacing the nVidia driver with nouveau but couldn't get that to
work at all. Probably did something wrong but couldn't work out what.

My Wheezy system is up to date so everything is at version levels you'd
expect from Wheezy. I play games like Quake 3 and have also built and play
Danger From the Deep, a submarine simulation that makes heavy use of 3D, on
my computer with no problems, so I think 3D in the graphics card is
generally working.

I'd like to get to the bottom of why regular Gnome is not working but don't
know where to start. I used to suspect the nVidia driver, because it worked
OK until a driver update, but no one else seems to be having quite the
problem I am having at this point so I suspect I have done something
stupid, but don't know how to find out what.

Can anyone help? For example, what are the software component differences
between regular Gnome and Gnome Classic? What log files should I be looking
in? and so on...

Thanks in advance!
Mark

Re: Why Debian

[berenger . morel]

Le 19.11.2013 03:04, Tamer Higazi a écrit :

Serious answer "Why Debian and Not Ubuntu" ?!

1. Because I don't like a commercial sponsored operating system.
How knows on what kind of stupid idea they come to collect data.


This one is a valid point.

2. As well, specially the Gnome3 system ubuntu delivers by default 
makes

me puke!


This one is not. Ubuntu uses Unity as default DE, not gnome3. There was 
a lot of noise about that new DE when the first version appeared.



3. The installer is full of advertising, and what they allready have
preinstalled, specially their cloud stuff


That's an argument, but, honestly, a poor one. You do the installation 
only once, right?
And I guess it looks like the advertisements there are when you install 
windows, or lot of other softwares. I do not see any problem with ads, 
if and only if it is not invasive.


About preinstalled stuff, again, nothing wrong here. If you choose a 
standard Debian installation, you will have a lot of crap you will 
probably never need, depending on your hardware.

Some example, which will fit, or not, depending on your usages:
_ scanners and printers related packages
_ desktop environment (I said, the default installation, right? I 
perfectly know that they can be avoided)

_ command-line tools
_ ssh
etc.

They are here because they are used by lot of people, but you are free 
to remove them.


On my Notebook I was lazy to set up a new Debian version because it 
came

with ubuntu preinstalled.

But honestly, I think when I have more time, I'll set up on my corei7
notebook a new debian version.


You could probably change the sources, and try an "upgrade" from Ubuntu 
to Debian, too. This would probably need some tinkering or web 
searching, but I bet it is doable.


Do you know with how much headache it was connected to get gnome2 
(mate

desktop) to install again 


As other people said, mate is not gnome2. Plus, can you provide us some 
real problems you had? Having an example could help us understanding 
your argument, because some of us do not use Ubuntu.



And installing from "untrusted" sources.


What tool did you used?
With my usual aptitude, I have to download keys to make external 
repositories trusted, or to say "yes, I trust that package" at each 
upgrade/installation of the external packages. I also had the same 
"problem" with Debian's official repositories, once, because I had 
removed the keys (I was learning my system by tinkering at that time).


So, I think that the problems you had with untrusted packages can be:
1) your fault: did you install the key?
2) mate developer's fault, if they did not provided one.
3) your package management software's fault.

But, I strongly doubt that the problem comes from Ubuntu, which uses 
the same package management as Debian, and so provides apt-get/aptitude. 
Probably some graphical interfaces too, but since I do not use them, I 
do not know the problems they can have.
Excepted if you used one only developed by Ubuntu, indeed. So, what 
tool did you had, and with which problems?



Do not take me wrong, I do not say that Debian is not as good or better 
that Ubuntu (I think it is better, especially in terms of flexibility: 
there are more than one DE maintained in the distribution, instead of 
having a distro fork for each DE... this approach is just ugly for me, 
but is interesting for simple users not used to have choice. Choice 
costs time, and some people do not want it for that reason.). It's 
simply that your argumentation lacks strength, and should never convince 
any user which knows Debian and Ubuntu.



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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 05:07:52PM +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> I think Jonathan was directing his comments to Emilio, not you.   It's
> difficult to know for sure as he didn't use a name, or quote some of the
> offending message.

That's right. My mailer did set in-reply-to correctly, and the message
threaded properly in my mailer, but it would not have hurt for me to
mention Emilio in the body of my message.

The main issue, as Bob P has correctly identified, relates to
format=flowed. Ron's message was marked as format=flowed, but Emilio's
was not. Emilio's mailer added newlines in the middle of Ron's lines but
didn't add corresponding quote marks.

The solution would probably be to trim the quote down to the minimum
required context.


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Re: Debugging segfaults in commercial software on Jessie

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

Hi

On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:14:22AM +, Bernhard Schmidt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a bit at a loss here, maybe someone has an idea how to look.
> 
> We run a commercial software called IBM Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) for
> Backup purposes. It is quite an ugly beast, but it works just fine on
> Wheezy.

Oh. You have my condolences. Anything starting with "IBM Tivoli"
is... bad.

> When upgrading to Jessie, it produces a segfault on most systems
> 
> root@lxmhs70:~# dsmc q fi
> IBM Tivoli Storage Manager
> Command Line Backup-Archive Client Interface
>   Client Version 6, Release 4, Level 0.7  
>   Client date/time: 11/19/2013 10:57:01
> (c) Copyright by IBM Corporation and other(s) 1990, 2013. All Rights
> Reserved.
> 
> Node Name: LXMHS70
> Aborted

You may be able to make some headway by using strace, to see which
systems calls it uses:

root@lxmhs70:~# strace dsmc q fi

But it is bound to be a long slog

(nice hostname by the way...)

> The weird thing is, my colleague running sid on his desktop has the same
> problem. My desktop, running Jessie, does _not_ have the same problem.
> The VM in question, also running Jessie, does have this problem. 

Interesting... Perhaps there are differences in the package versions?
Subtle ones?  I'd say run a "dpkg -l | grep '^ii'" on both (or all 3)
systems and diff the output... It's bound to flag *something* up,
unfortunately most of it is probably insignificant. But there could be
a gold nugget in there.

> 
> I compared strace on both sides and there is no notable difference (more
> filesystems on my desktop, but nothing extraordinary). Library versions
> are the same. I adjusted environment variables to be the same, no
> difference. 

Ah. You've been there already.

> 
> My colleague "fixed" it by using an older libc, using this method
> (http://www.debian-administration.org/users/lee/weblog/30) and the
> following packages
> 
> libc6_2.13-38_amd64.deb
> libgcc1_4.7.2-5_amd64.deb
> libstdc++6_4.7.2-5_amd64.deb
> libtinfo5_5.9-10_amd64.deb
> 
> but as I said, it works for me just fine.

When running such software, I find it handy to relegate it to a chroot
environment: commercial software tends to be very fickle with
dependencies - many of which are undeclared.  So to avoid too many
distracting discussions, I'd be sorely tempted to set up a debian
stable chroot to do stuff in. Or go the whole hog and use a LxC
instance...

> Does anyone have an idea how to debug this? I don't want to open a bug
> report right now on either side because its commercial software on a
> non-stable distribution version.

Well - if the developers are worth their salt, they probably *want* to
know about this not working on the next version of Debian.  I know
that I would

Best bet would probably be to look at migrating away from it...  But I
suspect that the golden rule[1] applies and you're stuck with it
because that's what the PHB wanted...


[1]  The golden rule: Those with the gold make the rules.

-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Andre Majorel]

On 2013-11-19 21:54 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 05:07:52PM +, Brad Rogers wrote:
>
> > I think Jonathan was directing his comments to Emilio, not
> > you. It's difficult to know for sure as he didn't use a
> > name, or quote some of the offending message.

An attribution wouldn't have hurt but it's plain to see that Jon
was replying to Emilio's message, not Ron's. Or don't mailers
show threads any more ?

> It was hard to take seriously exactly for that reason.

Don't make a rod for your own back. 

-- 
André Majorel 
Choosy spammers prefer lists.debian.org.


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CIFS mount hangs

[assmann]

Dear list,

since my upgrade to wheezy I have a problem with a cifs mount. It is a
share of my windows host. The setup worked fine in debian squeeze.

I mount this in a virtualbox guest via /etc/fstab like this:

//myipadress/data /data cifs uid=33,gid=33,auto,user=myuser,password=mypassword 
00

Everything seems fine ... until something happens. I have no idea what
exactly :-(

When I try to access the share via ssh-commandline the shell hangs. No
CTRL-C can bring it back to life. When I try to restart apache which
has docroots on the share, the shell hangs.

How do I find out what is going wrong here? I looked in
/var/log/syslog and /var/log/dmesg and found nothing.

Any hints would be great!

TIA

Tobias



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Problems with xen-create-image

[S. Kremer]

Hi everyone,

after upgrade from debian squeeze to debian wheezy and xen 4.1 i have
problems to create a new virtual machine by using xen-create-image.

To create a new virtual machine i use the following command:

xen-create-image --hostname new-vm1 --ip 192.168.101.45 --vcpus 1
--memory 512m --dist wheezy --passwd --role minimal --partitions server1
--verbose

All is fine till the moment the script for minimal role is running. The
script hangs at the point "Removing linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64..."

If i use the command above without --role minimal the new virtual
machine will be created and i can use it.


Regards
Stefan


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Debugging segfaults in commercial software on Jessie

[Bernhard Schmidt]

Hi,

I'm a bit at a loss here, maybe someone has an idea how to look.

We run a commercial software called IBM Tivoli Storage Manager (TSM) for
Backup purposes. It is quite an ugly beast, but it works just fine on
Wheezy.

When upgrading to Jessie, it produces a segfault on most systems

root@lxmhs70:~# dsmc q fi
IBM Tivoli Storage Manager
Command Line Backup-Archive Client Interface
  Client Version 6, Release 4, Level 0.7  
  Client date/time: 11/19/2013 10:57:01
(c) Copyright by IBM Corporation and other(s) 1990, 2013. All Rights
Reserved.

Node Name: LXMHS70
Aborted

The weird thing is, my colleague running sid on his desktop has the same
problem. My desktop, running Jessie, does _not_ have the same problem.
The VM in question, also running Jessie, does have this problem. 

I compared strace on both sides and there is no notable difference (more
filesystems on my desktop, but nothing extraordinary). Library versions
are the same. I adjusted environment variables to be the same, no
difference. 

My colleague "fixed" it by using an older libc, using this method
(http://www.debian-administration.org/users/lee/weblog/30) and the
following packages

libc6_2.13-38_amd64.deb
libgcc1_4.7.2-5_amd64.deb
libstdc++6_4.7.2-5_amd64.deb
libtinfo5_5.9-10_amd64.deb

but as I said, it works for me just fine.

Does anyone have an idea how to debug this? I don't want to open a bug
report right now on either side because its commercial software on a
non-stable distribution version.

Best Regards,
Bernhard


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Toshiba Satellite C50d/A00L laptop, can't install Debian - any version......

[Charlie]

Trying to install Debian on this lappy and keep hitting a brick wall.

The same message with the Jessie or Wheezy netinstall iso or the
first Install DVD of Jessie or Wheezy:

"No kernel modules were found. This probably is due to a mismatch
between the kernel used by this version of the installer and the
kernel version in the archive."

Then I continue because this can be rectified once a mirror has been
chosen and there is no Ethernet card found, and there is no wireless
option when looking for network hardware?

So that's the brick wall. I have the installer search a USB stick that
has every kind of realtek and every other driver I can find, but no joy.

I have tried it with different wireless dongles which aren't even
recognised. Just no Ethernet, never wireless.

I also get the error message:

Loading amd64-microcode failed for unknown reasons. Aborting.

The Ethernet device is RTL8101E/RTL8102E Fast Internet controller.

The wireless device is Device 8179 9 (rev 01)

I even rang Toshiba but they told me they didn't support Linux and
couldn't point me to any drivers. Yet I read on the net during my
drilling down looking for drivers, that someone had emailed Toshiba and
they had emailed him drivers for his Ethernet card. No joy there for
me. Can't even find their email address.

Just on the off chance, has anyone had any success with installing
Debian on this machine?

Ubuntu 10 live runs on it but doesn't recognise the network cards
either. [laughing]

I recall reading a blog of a Debian developer/programmer some years ago
writing that he wondered why he stayed with Linux, when it was all such
a struggle, when in windows it all just works. I can identify with that
at the moment.

Though to be fair, In the past I have just bought a laptop, formatted
the hard drive and install one or another flavour of current Debian of
the time without any worries. :-)

Maybe it's time I get accustomed to working with windows?

At the moment it's all interesting, but that's been for the last 5
days, it will soon wear off I think.

Anyway, just in case anyone has one of these laptops working.

TIA
Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is
called a philosopher. --Ambrose Bierce

***

Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic

-


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Re: P* - New language for web programming

[Diep Pham Van]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 23:02:10 +0100
Atle Solbakken  wrote:

> I have made a precompiled Debian-package for Debian Wheezy on amd64 
> ready today.
> 
> I have set up an APT-mirror, see this page on how to use it.
> 
> http://www.p-star.org/cgi-bin/how_to_get
I'm about to get the package, until I realize that there is no way to
get syntax highlighting with vim.

-- 
PHAM Van Diep


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Re: Install Google Chrome

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 07:42:10PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> "It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder - How I keep from going
> under". 

Have you seen the movie Shutter Island?

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: message formatting [was Wheezy/XFCE/VNC}

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 05:07:52PM +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:52:44 +
> Ron Leach  wrote:
> 
> Hello Ron,
> 
> >Jonathan, thank you for the note.  I've rechecked.
> 
> I think Jonathan was directing his comments to Emilio, not you.   It's
> difficult to know for sure as he didn't use a name, or quote some of the
> offending message.

It was hard to take seriously exactly for that reason.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: Automatic installs

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 17 nov 13, 16:39:10, Neal Murphy wrote:
> 
> Actually, if efficiency was important, the --purge option would accept a 
> regex. Or there'd be a --purgex option.

Behold the power of aptitude

aptitude purge ~c
aptitude purge ~o
...

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: P* - New language for web programming

[Sandro CAZZANIGA]

Le 18/11/2013 22:55, Atle Solbakken a écrit :
> Den 18. nov. 2013 10:06, skrev Sandro CAZZANIGA:
>> You see my point ? Cheers. 
> 
> Yes, I see your point :)
> 
> The manual page you saw was auto-generated docbook pages, so it's no P*.
> 
> Today, however, I've created a webpage which runs on P* and looks nicer:
> 
> http://www.p-star.org/
> 
> 
> 
> Atle.
> 
> 


Oh yeah :)

-- 
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Site web: http://sandrocazzaniga.fr
Jabber:   kha...@jabber.fr
Twitter:  @Kharec
GitHub:   http://github.com/Kharec
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IRC:  Kharec



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