Re: Problems with Buster and Bluetooth

[deloptes]

David Parker wrote:

> # dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.bluez
> /org/bluez/hci0/dev_9B_1F_48_B8_55_F6 org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get
> string:org.bluez.Device1 string:TxPower

This is a property of the device. I am not sure if it is visible onlywhen
connected. I am sure I have seen it in dbus, but could be I am wrong or it
was the network. In any case the property is in the interface
specification, but I do not know why it is not visible

> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: No such property 'TxPower'
> 
> The strings I have available are:
> 
> Address
> AddressType
> Name
> Alias
> Class
> Icon
> Paired
> Trusted
> Blocked
> LegacyPairing
> Connected
> UUIDs
> Adapter
> ServicesResolved
> 
> Anything else I should check?

What about the PA latency? For example I google for "fine tuning pulseaudio"
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=44862
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio

someone also susggest to try without PA
http://shellscreen.blogspot.com/2015/01/tips-to-fix-sound-server-issues-on.html

regards

Re: Authentication for telnet.

[David Wright]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 07:25:39 (-0700), pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> From: Andy Smith 
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:03:14 +
> > It is confusing why you would need to do this to localhost as you
> > could just type "bash" (or dash or zsh or whatever) to get a new
> > shell. So it would help our understanding if you were to explain
> > what your use case is for this new interactive shell session.
> 
> Oberon has a client for protocol Telnet and a client for SSH. bash, 
> dash, sudo, rlogin and many other tools don't exist in Oberon.  I 
> avoided discussing this deliberately.  For most readers it's an 
> annoying digression; for some will cause mental upset. 
> 
> In most Debian situations, once a user is logged in to the system, a 
> shell session is opened without a password.  "telnet localhost" is 
> analogous to that.  "ssh localhost" is rarely used.

Why? sshd is modern and secure. telnetd is ancient and insecure and
ought not to be on the system at all.

> If sitting in a 
> public place, be careful that someone isn't watching when you type the 
> password.

Why would you be typing a password after typing ssh localhost?
Just type:

$ cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub >> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys 

Cheers,
David.

Re: Subject: Re: Authentication for telnet.

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 20:13:57 -0700
pe...@easthope.ca wrote:

> From: Charles Curley 
> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 10:59:47 -0600
> > First, this is a Debian Linux support list, not an Oberon support 
> > list.  
> 
> Yes!  Exactly the right place for a question about telnetd in a 
> Debian system.
> 
> This illustrates why I tried to avoid mention of Oberon at the
> outset. It's a distraction, not essential to the question.  The
> telnet client might also be in MS Windows running in QEMU in the
> debian system or in FreeDOS in QEMU in the debian system.  They might
> provide analogous contexts.  But the question was about the telnetd
> server in debian; not about the telnet client.
> 
> > If you are running a GUI, most desktop environments will allow you
> > to have multiple terminal emulators open. Many of those will allow
> > you multiple tabs, each with a session open.
> > 
> > If you are not running a GUI, CTL-ALT-(F1-F6) will allow you up to
> > six simultaneous logins.
> > 
> > There are ways to get more, such as screen.  
> 
> Please read the message you have replied to again.  Protocols Telnet
> and SSH are available; nothing else you mention.

Now you have me further confused. If this is about telnetd on a Debian
system, then absent serious surgery to the point of crippling the host,
those things are available.

Or am I in error in believing that you want to telnet to the same
account on the same Debian machine?

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Subject: Re: Authentication for telnet.

[peter]

From: Charles Curley 
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 10:59:47 -0600
> First, this is a Debian Linux support list, not an Oberon support 
> list.

Yes!  Exactly the right place for a question about telnetd in a 
Debian system.

This illustrates why I tried to avoid mention of Oberon at the outset.  
It's a distraction, not essential to the question.  The telnet client 
might also be in MS Windows running in QEMU in the debian system or in 
FreeDOS in QEMU in the debian system.  They might provide analogous 
contexts.  But the question was about the telnetd server in debian; 
not about the telnet client.

> If you are running a GUI, most desktop environments will allow you to
> have multiple terminal emulators open. Many of those will allow you
> multiple tabs, each with a session open.
> 
> If you are not running a GUI, CTL-ALT-(F1-F6) will allow you up to six
> simultaneous logins.
> 
> There are ways to get more, such as screen.

Please read the message you have replied to again.  Protocols Telnet and SSH 
are 
available; nothing else you mention.

Regards, ... P.



-- 
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Medical_Machines
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon
Tel: +1 604 670 0140Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

Re: Dependencies et al (was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Felmon Davis]

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019, Michael Stone wrote:


On Mon, Oct 07, 2019 at 04:39:56PM +0300, Reco wrote:

No, I got you first time. Rather it's my response deviated elsewhere.

I see nothing in those three packages that would qualify as "xyzzy".
Alternatives? No. Mime types registration? No.
About the only common thing about all three packages is that they are
GUI archivers.
I do not question a choice of these three archivers as "lxqt"
dependency. What I do question is the kind of dependency itself.


I don't agree that responding to a troll will lead to a beneficial outcome. 
In this case, unless you're specifically trying to remove all of these 
specific dependencies (for no apparent reason) *it simply doesn't matter*. 
Saying, "there was a troll post which shows that this is an issue" just isn't 
compelling. Are there any real users with valid use cases for which this as 
an issue? If not, why encourage another dozen messages about it?


not sure about encouraging a dozen messages as such but the discussion 
has been very instructive for me at least.


fjd

--
Felmon Davis

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 22:19:22 +0300, Reco wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 07:56:46PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 21:30:52 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 
> > >   Hi.
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 06:57:58PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 20:20:43 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Unsure if it still on the first installation DVD, but let's take good
> > > > 
> > > > You could easily check.
> > > 
> > > And thus, ladies and gentlemen, we have a volunteer.
> > > Please check it, and share results with the list.
> > 
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/list-dvd/debian-10.1.0-i386-DVD-1.list.gz
> > 
> > Game. set and match.
> 
> Thanks, consider doing it all from the start next time.

I certainly will. But sometimes I like to watch people digging holes. :)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 02:38:48PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
> > > > Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
> > > > don't use a DE.  
> > > 
> > > Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> > > another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes with
> > > it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.  
> > 
> > My experience tells me otherwise, but I know how to use apt-mark.
> 
> The last time I tried unistalling a DE was 8 years ago.  Found no
> solution that wouldn't break or wipe out the system.  I don't even think
> apt-mark existed then.

Back then it was "apt-get install foo" for "apt-mark manual foo", and if
they had an equivalent of "apt-mark auto bar" I've never used it.


> Decided it was easier to do a clean install with
> the DE I wanted.  There wasn't enough room on the little 4GB SSD on an
> Asus eeePC 900 to install two.
> 
> > > Dependency/Recommends have gotten to the point now of
> > > unnecessarily bloating a system with apps and utilities that
> > > aren't needed, not wanted, and will never be used.  
> > 
> > Some examples would be nice here.
> 
> OK.  Install any DE and you'll likely get Firefox-ESR,

Hm. Let's see (buster, the current stable).

GNOME - 'nuf said.
MATE - yes, if you're installing Recommends.
KDE - no, but you get their version of kitchen sink.
XFCE - no, even if you count Suggests.
LXDE - yes, if you're installing Recommends.
LXQT -  yes, if you're installing Recommends.

Seems sane. Have I forgot any DE?

> Libreoffice,

Actually, no. You could count LXDE here, but you have to install
Suggests.

> all kinds of multimedia apps and utilities, etc., etc.

That's somewhat expected from a DE, but I get your point.


> > > That's why I begin all my installs with a terminal-only system and
> > > build it up piece by piece judiciously checking what gets installed.
> > > The result is a small,  
> > 
> > uname -m && du -sxh /usr
> 
> On this my primary system?  Stretch amd64. /usr 4.0GB.

Main desktop - 3.2G in / (/var is a separate filesystem), every package
is hand-picked, installation is about 10 years old, multiple migrations,
one architecture change.
But - kid's desktop - 3.0G in / (/var is a separate filesystem), lxde
metapackage, fresh installation.

My point is - hand-picking packages has its fun, and a great way to pass
the time (and I do it too, occasionally). But once you know the *right*
metapackage, end result is nearly the same.


> I've done installs using the method mentioned above where the whole
> system was on a 4.0GB SSD and install only took 1.2GB including
> customized LXDE desktop and applications.  No swap.

They had localepurge even then. You could easily shave off extra
200-300M even in such conditions.

Reco

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 13:59:00 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> B writes:
> > To make things easy, I figured to just uninstall GNOME.  Wouldn't work
> > no matter what method I tried. Uninstall always wanted to remove ALL X
> > based stuff.  Dependency hell. Researched a lot. No solutions found.  
> 
> 
> Install LXDE *first*.  Remove Gnome *second*.  Do it all from a text
> console, of course.

Thought of that, but not enough room for two DEs on the little 4GB SSD.
Install quit saying not enough free space. 

B

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 21:40:08 +0300
Reco  wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 11:21:26AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:44:32 -0500
> > John Hasler  wrote:
> >   
> > > Patrick Bartek writes:  
> > > > They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved,
> > > > more or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has
> > > > discovered and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life
> > > > . . . and software
> > > 
> > > The OP is in a hell of his own making (which is fine with me).  If he
> > > wasn't such a dork he'd let Lxqt pull in Xarchiver, ignore it, and
> > > install his choice of archiver.  
> >   
> ...
> > Unfortunately, it's the way dependencies have been implemented.  
> 
> In this particular case, it's the way a metapackage have been
> implemented.
> Dependencies by themselves are fine, but their usage in this case
> (Depends instead of Recommends) is controversial.
> 
> In another words, do not blame the mechanism, blame the policy.

That was what I was implying.  That's why I used "implemented" instead
of blaming dependencies directly.  And, yes, metapackages can result in
getting more installed than expected.  I try to avoid using them.

> 
> > One should be able to uninstall one thing without it trashing your whole
> > system because of dependencies, Recommends, etc.  
> 
> It's possible already, although it contradicts the purpose of
> metapackages. First, you remove lxqt. Next, you apt-mark to manual all
> its Depends and Recommends. Finally, you remove what you do not want.
>
> And note, I did not imply that it's user-friendly in any way. And I
> won't call it "simple" or "obvious".

To say the least.  And beyond the OP's capabilities.
 
> 
> > There should be a special switch: "uninstall only this, leave
> > everything else, don't automatically install a replacement -- I'll do
> > that." :)  
> 
> There is no need for such switch as it's perfectly doable with stock apt
> & dpkg. But since it falls into "creative Debian breakage" category, I
> won't go into the details here.

I'm familiar with the method and have used it in a limited way,
but it's so easy to break the system without thorough research first.
And, again, beyond the OP's skill set . . . and temperament.

> 
> > > I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
> > > Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
> > > don't use a DE.  
> > 
> > Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> > another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes with
> > it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.  
> 
> My experience tells me otherwise, but I know how to use apt-mark.

The last time I tried unistalling a DE was 8 years ago.  Found no
solution that wouldn't break or wipe out the system.  I don't even think
apt-mark existed then. Decided it was easier to do a clean install with
the DE I wanted.  There wasn't enough room on the little 4GB SSD on an
Asus eeePC 900 to install two.

> 
> > Dependency/Recommends have gotten to the point now of
> > unnecessarily bloating a system with apps and utilities that
> > aren't needed, not wanted, and will never be used.  
> 
> Some examples would be nice here.

OK.  Install any DE and you'll likely get Firefox-ESR, Libreoffice,
all kinds of multimedia apps and utilities, etc., etc.  Even just
installing the basic DE components instead of using the metapackage
will still get apps that perhaps you don't want like audacious which I
never use, but with almost anything sound related you install you get
it unless you want to use dpkg and resolve the dependencies yourself
which I have done: Used Slackware for years. ;-)  And "marking" certain
items individually not to be installed can be a lot of work, probably
more than it's worth.  I just ignore them.  Plenty of hard drive space
available.

> 
> > That's why I begin all my installs with a terminal-only system and
> > build it up piece by piece judiciously checking what gets installed.
> > The result is a small,  
> 
> uname -m && du -sxh /usr

On this my primary system?  Stretch amd64. /usr 4.0GB.  20GB / (31%
in use of which /usr is a part). /home and swap on separate partitions.
However, I've been using it for almost 2 years and have apps like video
editing software installed I'm testing. So, /usr has more on it than
usual.

I've done installs using the method mentioned above where the whole
system was on a 4.0GB SSD and install only took 1.2GB including
customized LXDE desktop and applications.  No swap.

> 
> > fast, efficient set up with only what I want -- for the most part.  
> 
> And that "part" that mars your perfect installation is?

Little things that I don't use, but apps complain about if they
aren't installed like xarchiver.

B

Re: AppImage

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 09 October 2019 15:37:37 Reco wrote:

>   Hi.
>
> On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 02:14:42PM -0500, Donnie Wooton wrote:
> > Is there a way to install a AppImage file on RasPi4 running Debian?
>
> Where did you get an unofficial Debian image for Raspberry Pi4?
> Just to save you the confusion - Raspbian is not Debian, and Debian
> cannot run on Raspberry Pi4 yet. As of stable, at least.
>
> > I have saved the image file to the desktop and used terminal to make
> > it executable.  It won’t run...
>
Actually, the netinstall will, but it installs an arm64 kernel, and the 
device tree is bogus, so not much in the way of pi-4 hardware works very 
well if at all.

> It's most likely that they build it for a different CPU architecture
> (i.e. x86-64).
>
> So, you either:
>
> 1) Ask for an Appimage built for armhf.
> In exactly the same place you got that Appimage.
>
> 2) Try your luck with qemu-user-x86-64.
> It won't be pretty.
>
> 3) Install the whatever it is you want with apt, the way it is
> intended in Raspbian.
>
> Reco


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: stranges choices of printers

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Brian wrote:
> On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 16:44:15 -, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> [...]
>> One or both of those is probably a mdns / zeroconf / autodiscovery name
>> of some sort.  I remember having to turn that nonsense off on my Brother
>> printer.
>
> Indeed. Whatever were printer vendors thinking of when they implemented
> such things as AirPrint on their devices? Anyone would think we were in
> 21st century, whereas what we want is something more ancient and for all
> our Debian printing applications to be stuck in the past.

Seeing as it did nothing but cause problems for my systems, yes,
nonsense it was.


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-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: AppImage

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 02:14:42PM -0500, Donnie Wooton wrote:
> Is there a way to install a AppImage file on RasPi4 running Debian?

Where did you get an unofficial Debian image for Raspberry Pi4?
Just to save you the confusion - Raspbian is not Debian, and Debian
cannot run on Raspberry Pi4 yet. As of stable, at least.


> I have saved the image file to the desktop and used terminal to make
> it executable.  It won’t run...

It's most likely that they build it for a different CPU architecture
(i.e. x86-64).

So, you either:

1) Ask for an Appimage built for armhf.
In exactly the same place you got that Appimage.

2) Try your luck with qemu-user-x86-64.
It won't be pretty.

3) Install the whatever it is you want with apt, the way it is intended
in Raspbian.

Reco

Re: AppImage

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 02:14:42PM -0500, Donnie Wooton wrote:
> Is there a way to install a AppImage file on RasPi4 running Debian?
> 
> I have saved the image file to the desktop and used terminal to make it 
> executable.  It won’t run...
> 
What application?  What is the source of the AppImage you have?  What
error message do you get when you try to execute it?

Regards,

-Roberto
-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

AppImage

[Donnie Wooton]

Is there a way to install a AppImage file on RasPi4 running Debian?

I have saved the image file to the desktop and used terminal to make it 
executable.  It won’t run...

Thanks!

Donnie

Sent from my iPad

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Reco]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 07:56:46PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 21:30:52 +0300, Reco wrote:
> 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 06:57:58PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 20:20:43 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Unsure if it still on the first installation DVD, but let's take good
> > > 
> > > You could easily check.
> > 
> > And thus, ladies and gentlemen, we have a volunteer.
> > Please check it, and share results with the list.
> 
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/list-dvd/debian-10.1.0-i386-DVD-1.list.gz
> 
> Game. set and match.

Thanks, consider doing it all from the start next time.


> > > > old rkhunter.  Using it for its primary purpose (i.e. searching for
> > > > rootkits) is overly optimistic these days. But it's secondary purpose is
> > > 
> > > "these days"? "overly optimistic"? rkhunter has never found a rootkit
> > 
> > Try reading whole sentences next time.
> > I'm aware that rkhunter and you share a troubled past. There's no need
> > to remind about it every time someone mentions rkhunter in this list.
> 
> The primary purpose of rkhunter (whether it is realises or not) is to
> produce false positves and confuse any naive user who installs it.

Fill a wishlist bug report to change rkhunter description to reflect
your stance. Don't waste that negative energy in maillists, use it for a
common good.


> A respected member of this list who advocates using it presumably has an
> excellent technical reason for doing so.

In may be shocking, I know. The reason was in the statement you choose
not to quote. Starting with "But it's secondary purpose is".

Reco

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[John Hasler]

B writes:
> To make things easy, I figured to just uninstall GNOME.  Wouldn't work
> no matter what method I tried. Uninstall always wanted to remove ALL X
> based stuff.  Dependency hell. Researched a lot. No solutions found.


Install LXDE *first*.  Remove Gnome *second*.  Do it all from a text
console, of course.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 21:30:52 +0300, Reco wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 06:57:58PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 20:20:43 +0300, Reco wrote:
> > 
> > > Unsure if it still on the first installation DVD, but let's take good
> > 
> > You could easily check.
> 
> And thus, ladies and gentlemen, we have a volunteer.
> Please check it, and share results with the list.

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/list-dvd/debian-10.1.0-i386-DVD-1.list.gz

Game. set and match.

> > > old rkhunter.  Using it for its primary purpose (i.e. searching for
> > > rootkits) is overly optimistic these days. But it's secondary purpose is
> > 
> > "these days"? "overly optimistic"? rkhunter has never found a rootkit
> 
> Try reading whole sentences next time.
> I'm aware that rkhunter and you share a troubled past. There's no need
> to remind about it every time someone mentions rkhunter in this list.

The primary purpose of rkhunter (whether it is realises or not) is to
produce false positves and confuse any naive user who installs it. A
respected member of this list who advocates using it presumably has an
excellent technical reason for doing so.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 17:44:55 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

>  Patrick Bartek writes:
> > Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> > another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes
> > with it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.  
> 
> My desktop machine has a highly-customized FVWM installation but I've
> changed DEs on my laptop without  running into that.

Well, it WAS about 8 years ago and the last time I tried it.  I had
installed Wheezy (32-bit) with GNOME 2 on a friend's eeePC 900.  It
originally had some Linux system on it that mimiced Windows XP, but it
was trashed and didn't work. GNOME proved to be just too heavy for its
4GB SSD, 512MB RAM and 1GHZ Atom CPU. Response was sluggish and it hit
the swap a LOT. Even upgrading to 1GB RAM, the maximum, only helped a
little. I decided to go with a lighter, customized install of LXDE. It
being modular made this simple. And since I didn't use the metapackage,
I didn't get all the crap that gets installed with it. Too make things
easy, I figured to just uninstall GNOME.  Wouldn't work no matter what
method I tried. Uninstall always wanted to remove ALL X based stuff.
Dependency hell. Researched a lot. No solutions found. Finally, gave up
and just reinstalled the OS with LXDE and reconfigured.  System still
in use and works fine.

This was also the same year, I abandoned DEs entirely when I upgraded
from Fedora 12 GNOME 2 to Wheezy LTS Openbox WM and a single LXpanel
with menus.  Now with Stretch. Similar set up.

I understand it is now easier to remove a DE, but haven't tried it.  No
need.  Don't use DEs anymore.  Just eye candy.  Waste of CPU cycles.  

B

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 06:57:58PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 20:20:43 +0300, Reco wrote:
> 
> > Unsure if it still on the first installation DVD, but let's take good
> 
> You could easily check.

And thus, ladies and gentlemen, we have a volunteer.
Please check it, and share results with the list.


> > old rkhunter.  Using it for its primary purpose (i.e. searching for
> > rootkits) is overly optimistic these days. But it's secondary purpose is
> 
> "these days"? "overly optimistic"? rkhunter has never found a rootkit

Try reading whole sentences next time.
I'm aware that rkhunter and you share a troubled past. There's no need
to remind about it every time someone mentions rkhunter in this list.

Reco

Threading; was: Re: Authentication for telnet.

[peter]

DISCLAIMER & WARNING: Threading may still be incorrect.  Tempting as 
this message might be, if incorrect threading upsets you please stop 
reading.  =8~)

To my understanding In-Reply-To and References were added to the 
earlier message correctly but the list server put them in the Web 
based message body as plain text rather than hyperlinks.  The 
Message-id value in the message body is a hyperlink. Does the list 
server need the hyperlinks in the message body to propagate links in 
the next message?  At present I don't have any other explanation.
Documentation wouldn't be a bad idea.  =8~)

From: Andy Smith 
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 15:46:44 +
> You break threads ...

Threading might have been solved back in July as David W. mentioned.
If it was I've forgotten a detail.

Hypothetically the mailing list software might filter out some 
threading syntax errors.  Better to enforce syntax in a clear way than 
to have random errors and complaints.

Regards,... Peter E.
-- 
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Medical_Machines
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon
Tel: +1 604 670 0140Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

Re: how to get odbc working for connection to mariadb in debian buster

[Étienne Mollier]

On 09/10/2019 07.21, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 21:51:23 -0400
> John Covici  wrote:
> 
>> Do you think this package is in buster backports and if so, how do I
>> access that repository?
> 
> https://backports.debian.org/
> 
> However, it is not yet in backports.
> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=odbc-mariadb&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all&sourceid=mozilla-search
> 

I was merely thinking that if it becomes useful to people, then
it might be worth putting some effort in a backport maintenance.

Kind Regards,  :)
-- 
Étienne Mollier 
Fingerprint:  5ab1 4edf 63bb ccff 8b54  2fa9 59da 56fe fff3 882d



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 20:20:43 +0300, Reco wrote:

> Unsure if it still on the first installation DVD, but let's take good

You could easily check.

> old rkhunter.  Using it for its primary purpose (i.e. searching for
> rootkits) is overly optimistic these days. But it's secondary purpose is

"these days"? "overly optimistic"? rkhunter has never found a rootkit
to my knowledge on anyone's system at any time. True, it excels in false
positives. Perhaps that is its purpose in life.

-- 
Brian.

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[Paul Sutton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


>> 
>> Yeah. This is a big problem. We'd need a desktop-user-safe GUI
>> tool which by some AI detects the USB stick which is least worthy
>> of preservation.


Seems to me, what is perhaps needed is more localized support, or
knowing where the people with the right skills to create these usb
disks are (I have a few Debian 10 install usb disks made up, usually
for the South Devon Tech Jam - just in case I need one)

This adds weight to the value of social meet ups, we can communicate
on all manner of e-mail lists, irc, social media, but actually having
a face to face meet up makes life so much easier when providing support.

I would urge people to ask about basic Linux courses at places where
they may run basic computer courses using Windows,  if we can try and
create the demand maybe things will change, until then your basic
course will just be how to use windows, word, facebook, outlook,
google etc.  With no mention of the fact there are alternatives.

Paul

- -- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D
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Re: stranges choices of printers

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 16:44:15 -, Dan Purgert wrote:

> Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Oct 2019, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
> >
> >> My explanation:
> >> The "...-M231" is the only working printer on your Linux system.
> >yes, as laserjet  (I have also envy, which gives no problem)
> >
> >> Okkular has stored somewhere the "...sdn_BDD3AA_" printer in your
> >> environment, e.g. $HOME/.lp*  or .config/kde/
> >I found BDD3A nowhere , neither in okular setting nor in evince.
> >grep -ar BDD  in /etc and /var gave nothing
> >God knows where okular find it
> >>
> >> Have you ever printed before with okkular to the "...sdn_BDD3AA_" printer?
> > yes. it works
> >
> >with evince, it's stranger:
> >it finds HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231 and ljp (paused), but not
> >...BDD3A...
> >if I try to use ljp, the previen says "no such printer" !
> >
> >that seems really crazy
> 
> One or both of those is probably a mdns / zeroconf / autodiscovery name
> of some sort.  I remember having to turn that nonsense off on my Brother
> printer.

Indeed. Whatever were printer vendors thinking of when they implemented
such things as AirPrint on their devices? Anyone would think we were in
21st century, whereas what we want is something more ancient and for all
our Debian printing applications to be stuck in the past.

Nonsense it is. Whoever wants setting up a printer to have the same ease
of use as setting up a mouse? And as for these users with smartphones, let
them use another OS to print to. Why should Debian accomodate them when we
we can rely on a vast collection of buggy drivers to see us into the next
century.

Bonjour is a network protocol. We do not even know whether the OP has his
MFD on the network.

-- 
Brian.

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 04:26:05PM +0200, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 10/8/19, Reco  wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 04:34:17PM +0200, Albretch Mueller wrote:
> >> >>  this is a hash algorithm that is implemented of the chips anyway, it
> >> >> is the fastest of them all, used by synch (is it?) and it is crucially
> >> >> helpful when data integrity is very important.
> >>
> >> >And it's also one of those broken checksum algorithms which makes it
> >> >easy to replace a part of file while keeping a checksum intact.
> >>
> >>  Well, I wasn't claiming CRC32 was fail-safe, what I actually meant is
> >> that data integrity would be based on:
> >>
> >>  a) two -fast- and "reasonably" safe signature utilities which are
> >> based on -different algorithms-
> >
> > CRC32 fails here. Key is "reasonably" safe.
> > If you'd propose MD5 and SHA256 (Debian does it for the every package in
> > repostory) - that would be considered OK.
> 
>  OK, great! MD5 and SHA256 would it then be. They don't even need to
> be computed, so, right after installation Debian should:
> 
>  1) give users the option to keep a first baseline, including the
> hardware on which the installation was made, saved into files which
> would be tar'ed and compressed in a well-defined, standard way;
> 
>  2) whenever users feel like checking their device, the same DVD live
> used for the initial installation could be used to check the current
> "moment" of the OS and check the difference with previous diff deltas;
> 
>  3) if differences are detected where and if they matter (not just a
> new file), but, say inside a critical directory or file (all those
> should be declaratively set), a hexviewer would be launched showing
> the differences between the two files. Probably, that could be
> implemented out of the box with IDS what I am pushing for is making it
> an integral and optional part of Debian installation

No objections here.


> >> >>  Does Debian internally have the kind of check pointing that Windows
> >> >> does with which you could revert the state of an OS to a operating
> >> >> "moment" you can manage?
> >
> >> >Sure. And it's called "off-host backup", a concept which predates both
> >> >Linux and Windoze. As you helpfully mention below, "you do not own your
> >> >computer", so "in-host" checkpoints are untrusted by your very own
> >> >definition.
> >>
> >>  I think you are twisting a bit my point here in a confusing way.
> >
> > Nope. If you need an immutable OS state (be it a backup, a snapshot or
> > whatever), you do not store it on the same host. If you do not trust the
> > OS (or the hardware), there's no reason to trust a snapshot of its state.
> 
>  I meant you would keep that file in a pen drive you never connect to
> the Internet adn that baselining utility should be part of the Debian
> installation DVDs.

Unsure if it still on the first installation DVD, but let's take good
old rkhunter.  Using it for its primary purpose (i.e. searching for
rootkits) is overly optimistic these days. But it's secondary purpose is
IDS. So, take a look at this (file goes on and on and on):

# head /var/lib/rkhunter/db/rkhunter.dat
Version:2019100800
Host:xxx
Arch:x86_64
OS:Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Prelinked:No
Hash:/usr/bin/sha256sum
Pkgmgr:
Attributes:Stored
FormatVersion:1
File:0:/usr/sbin/adduser:f13ad85950859c760c12b090241c723103a9ce9c1034b03db695a4b39fa5623c:394033:0755:0:0:34518:1537038759::0::

Here you have a file contents checksum, last modification date, file
attributes and everything else to answer if the file was modified in any
way after the last rkhunter run.

As I wrote earlier - if you need it done, use an IDS. There's no need to
implement your own.


> >> >>  the reason why I push for the crc32 algo is because instead of using
> >> >> sha?sums which are much slower, I would rely on both crc32 and md5sum,
> >> >> when I have to baselines the 200+K files included in the base install
> >> >> that comes with the installation disk.
> >>
> >> >A noble if misguided effort. Surely you're aware that Debian project
> >> >provides both install media and LiveDVDs along with checksums of them?
> >> >They did this job for you already.
> >>
> >>  Yes, but where is the GUI based data integrity check?
> >
> > Never felt the need for one.
> > I fail to see what's so hard in running:
> >
> > md5sum -c 
> > sha256sum -c 
> >
> > But maybe some other list participant can help you here.
> 
>  I never said it was hard I am talking about running such utilities on
> hundreds of thousands of files, but you clarified to me this is not
> even necessary, since such sums are included in the deb file.
> 
>  By the way, if you were to recommend the best/most exhaustive and
> reproducible documentation about how Debian's packaging system works,
> that would be?

Barebone basics:

apt(8), aptitude(8), dpkg(8).

Something that every maintainer should know (same as maint-guide package):

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/

For enl

Re: Authentication for telnet.

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2019 07:25:39 -0700
pe...@easthope.ca wrote:
> From: Andy Smith 
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:03:14 +

> > So I think we really do still need to know more about your use
> > case.  
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)
> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon
> 
> I tried to make the orginal question as specific as possible.

You may have tried but you have failed.

First, this is a Debian Linux support list, not an Oberon support list.
So I fail to see the relevance of Oberon to the issue.

Second, several people have asked just what you are trying to do, and
all you have done is obfuscate the matter.

If you want to have multiple shell sessions on the same account on the
same computer, telnet is at best an unnecessary complication and at
worst a security nightmare.

If you are running a GUI, most desktop environments will allow you to
have multiple terminal emulators open. Many of those will allow you
multiple tabs, each with a session open.

If you are not running a GUI, CTL-ALT-(F1-F6) will allow you up to six
simultaneous logins.

There are ways to get more, such as screen.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: stranges choices of printers

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Oct 2019, Klaus Singvogel wrote:
>
>> My explanation:
>> The "...-M231" is the only working printer on your Linux system.
>yes, as laserjet  (I have also envy, which gives no problem)
>
>> Okkular has stored somewhere the "...sdn_BDD3AA_" printer in your
>> environment, e.g. $HOME/.lp*  or .config/kde/
>I found BDD3A nowhere , neither in okular setting nor in evince.
>grep -ar BDD  in /etc and /var gave nothing
>God knows where okular find it
>>
>> Have you ever printed before with okkular to the "...sdn_BDD3AA_" printer?
> yes. it works
>
>with evince, it's stranger:
>it finds HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231 and ljp (paused), but not
>...BDD3A...
>if I try to use ljp, the previen says "no such printer" !
>
>that seems really crazy

One or both of those is probably a mdns / zeroconf / autodiscovery name
of some sort.  I remember having to turn that nonsense off on my Brother
printer.

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-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: stranges choices of printers

[Pierre Frenkiel]

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019, Klaus Singvogel wrote:


My explanation:
The "...-M231" is the only working printer on your Linux system.

  yes, as laserjet  (I have also envy, which gives no problem)


Okkular has stored somewhere the "...sdn_BDD3AA_" printer in your
environment, e.g. $HOME/.lp*  or .config/kde/

  I found BDD3A nowhere , neither in okular setting nor in evince.
  grep -ar BDD  in /etc and /var gave nothing
  God knows where okular find it


Have you ever printed before with okkular to the "...sdn_BDD3AA_" printer?

   yes. it works

  with evince, it's stranger:
  it finds HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231 and ljp (paused), but not ...BDD3A...
  if I try to use ljp, the previen says "no such printer" !

  that seems really crazy

Re: Problems with Buster and Bluetooth

[David Parker]

Hello,

That's a good question.  "Audio" is not listed even when the earbuds are
connected and working.  I have no explanation for that.

It looks like TxPower is not an available string in the dbus-send output:

# dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.bluez
/org/bluez/hci0/dev_9B_1F_48_B8_55_F6 org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get
string:org.bluez.Device1 string:TxPower
Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: No such property 'TxPower'

The strings I have available are:

Address
AddressType
Name
Alias
Class
Icon
Paired
Trusted
Blocked
LegacyPairing
Connected
UUIDs
Adapter
ServicesResolved

Anything else I should check?

Thanks!

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 6:07 PM deloptes  wrote:

> David Parker wrote:
>
> > # hciconfig -a
> > hci0: Type: Primary  Bus: USB
> > BD Address: 5C:F3:70:8C:B7:98  ACL MTU: 1021:8  SCO MTU: 64:1
> > UP RUNNING PSCAN
> > RX bytes:62062 acl:40 sco:0 events:3178 errors:0
> > TX bytes:499936 acl:776 sco:0 commands:1088 errors:38
> > Features: 0xbf 0xfe 0xcf 0xfe 0xdb 0xff 0x7b 0x87
> > Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
> > Link policy: RSWITCH SNIFF
> > Link mode: SLAVE ACCEPT
> > Name: 'debian'
> > Class: 0x100104
> > Service Classes: Object Transfer
> > Device Class: Computer, Desktop workstation
> > HCI Version: 4.0 (0x6)  Revision: 0x153a
> > LMP Version: 4.0 (0x6)  Subversion: 0x220e
> > Manufacturer: Broadcom Corporation (15)
>
> Under Service Classes you have only "Object Transfer"
>
> hci0:   Type: Primary  Bus: USB
> BD Address:   ACL MTU: 310:10  SCO MTU: 64:8
> UP RUNNING PSCAN
> RX bytes:19767535 acl:62926 sco:0 events:3572 errors:0
> TX bytes:390503 acl:2479 sco:0 commands:1081 errors:0
> Features: 0xff 0xff 0x8f 0xfe 0x9b 0xff 0x59 0x83
> Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
> Link policy: RSWITCH HOLD SNIFF PARK
> Link mode: SLAVE ACCEPT
> Name: 'fujitsu'
> Class: 0x3c0104
> Service Classes: Rendering, Capturing, Object Transfer, Audio
> Device Class: Computer, Desktop workstation
> HCI Version: 2.1 (0x4)  Revision: 0x12e7
> LMP Version: 2.1 (0x4)  Subversion: 0x12e7
> Manufacturer: Cambridge Silicon Radio (10)
>
> Why is Audio not listed?
>
> You can get the TxPower (if lucky) from the device via DBUS Device1
> Interface
>
> dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.bluez
> /org/bluez/hci0/dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX
> org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get string:org.bluez.Device1 string:TxPower
>
> dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.bluez
> /org/bluez/hci0/dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX
> org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.GetAll string:org.bluez.Device1
>
> replace dev_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX_XX with your BT MAC
>
>
>
>

-- 
Dave Parker '11
Database & Systems Administrator
Utica College
Integrated Information Technology Services
(315) 792-3229
Registered Linux User #408177

Re: disk going bad? or fuser related issues? . . .

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 04:55:55PM +0200, Albretch Mueller wrote:
>  this is what smartctl reports about my disks. Are they OK?:

There is no reason in hiding every SMART attribute.
What I can tell from the results is that you've run "long" smartctl test
to the completion and it found nothing to report.
Please post the results of "smartctl -A".

Reco

Re: Bible study tools in Debian repository - End-user support?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 8:07 AM Richard Owlett  wrote:

>
> My immediate BibleTime related questions include:
> 1. When display the Strong's entry for a word there is a field titled
> "Morphology:". I find no references to the meaning of the abbreviations
> used there.
>

You will likely find them in an introductory university text book in
linguistics or morphology. Or reference works in
linguistics. Some at least are here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_glossing_abbreviations

Re: disk going bad? or fuser related issues? . . .

[Albretch Mueller]

 this is what smartctl reports about my disks. Are they OK?:
~
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
# smartctl --xall /dev/sda
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-6-amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Western Digital Black
Device Model: WDC WD3200BEKT-08PVMT1
Serial Number:WD-WXN1CC1A1245
Firmware Version: 02.01A02

 . . .

# date; smartctl -l selftest /dev/sda
Mon Oct  7 02:28:49 CEST 2019
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-6-amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_DescriptionStatus  Remaining
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offlineCompleted without error   00% 14318 -
#

~
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
# smartctl --xall /dev/sdb
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-6-amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Samsung SpinPoint M9T
Device Model: ST2000LM003 HN-M201RAD
Serial Number:M932A4G7001730
LU WWN Device Id: 0 00 0
Firmware Version: 2BE10001
 . . .

# date; smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdb
Mon Oct  7 10:06:04 CEST 2019
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-6-amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_DescriptionStatus  Remaining
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offlineCompleted without error   00%  1802 -

#
~
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
# date; smartctl --xall /dev/sdc
Mon Oct  7 11:22:16 CEST 2019
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-6-amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Archive HDD
Device Model: ST8000AS0002-1NA17Z
Serial Number:Z840G7JM
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 090d2f837
Firmware Version: AR17

# date; smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdc
Tue Oct  8 06:38:59 CEST 2019
smartctl 6.6 2016-05-31 r4324 [x86_64-linux-4.9.0-6-amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_DescriptionStatus  Remaining
LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Extended offlineCompleted without error   00%  3530 -
~
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
 lbrtchx


On 10/5/19, Albretch Mueller  wrote:
>  thank you (also, as part caring for good karma in case someone runs
> into such matters) the two (or three) silver lines I got from you
> comments were:
>
>  a) defragment that NTFS partition once in a while. i mostly use that
> partition to read legacy data, but I didn't know you could defragment
> a windows partition within Linux, on unix.stackexchange:
>
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/13976/is-there-a-linux-tool-for-defragging-ntfs-partitions
>
>  they were talking well about:
>
>  https://www.tuxera.com/community/open-source-ntfs-3g/
>
>  which I got:
>
>  # which ntfs-3g
> /bin/ntfs-3g
>
> # ntfs-3g --version
> ntfs-3g 2016.2.22AR.1 integrated FUSE 28
>
>  b) those disks are pretty full I have heard that disks need some
> "elbow room", but I thought that was only necessary if you use them
> for reading and writing (not just for linearly reading)
>
>  c) using FAT carries the 4Gb limit on file sizes which I don't want
> to be dealing with. I prefer to deal with the other kinds of problems
>
>  lbrtchx
>

Re: et.al.

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 16:16:55 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Brian wrote:
> > Note that there isn't any LDOSUBSCRIBER in the headers of this mail.
> 
> Your spam score worsened from -10.3 to 0.1 consequentially.
> Shall we still believe that you are you ?

The mail was also delayed for nearly twenty minutes by the mailing list
software. Double punishment.

-- 
Brian.

Re: RFE: Could crc32 be included in the debian live/installation disk?

[Albretch Mueller]

On 10/8/19, Reco  wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 04:34:17PM +0200, Albretch Mueller wrote:
>> >>  this is a hash algorithm that is implemented of the chips anyway, it
>> >> is the fastest of them all, used by synch (is it?) and it is crucially
>> >> helpful when data integrity is very important.
>>
>> >And it's also one of those broken checksum algorithms which makes it
>> >easy to replace a part of file while keeping a checksum intact.
>>
>>  Well, I wasn't claiming CRC32 was fail-safe, what I actually meant is
>> that data integrity would be based on:
>>
>>  a) two -fast- and "reasonably" safe signature utilities which are
>> based on -different algorithms-
>
> CRC32 fails here. Key is "reasonably" safe.
> If you'd propose MD5 and SHA256 (Debian does it for the every package in
> repostory) - that would be considered OK.

 OK, great! MD5 and SHA256 would it then be. They don't even need to
be computed, so, right after installation Debian should:

 1) give users the option to keep a first baseline, including the
hardware on which the installation was made, saved into files which
would be tar'ed and compressed in a well-defined, standard way;

 2) whenever users feel like checking their device, the same DVD live
used for the initial installation could be used to check the current
"moment" of the OS and check the difference with previous diff deltas;

 3) if differences are detected where and if they matter (not just a
new file), but, say inside a critical directory or file (all those
should be declaratively set), a hexviewer would be launched showing
the differences between the two files. Probably, that could be
implemented out of the box with IDS what I am pushing for is making it
an integral and optional part of Debian installation

>> >>  Does Debian internally have the kind of check pointing that Windows
>> >> does with which you could revert the state of an OS to a operating
>> >> "moment" you can manage?
>
>> >Sure. And it's called "off-host backup", a concept which predates both
>> >Linux and Windoze. As you helpfully mention below, "you do not own your
>> >computer", so "in-host" checkpoints are untrusted by your very own
>> >definition.
>>
>>  I think you are twisting a bit my point here in a confusing way.
>
> Nope. If you need an immutable OS state (be it a backup, a snapshot or
> whatever), you do not store it on the same host. If you do not trust the
> OS (or the hardware), there's no reason to trust a snapshot of its state.

 I meant you would keep that file in a pen drive you never connect to
the Internet adn that baselining utility should be part of the Debian
installation DVDs.

>> >>  the reason why I push for the crc32 algo is because instead of using
>> >> sha?sums which are much slower, I would rely on both crc32 and md5sum,
>> >> when I have to baselines the 200+K files included in the base install
>> >> that comes with the installation disk.
>>
>> >A noble if misguided effort. Surely you're aware that Debian project
>> >provides both install media and LiveDVDs along with checksums of them?
>> >They did this job for you already.
>>
>>  Yes, but where is the GUI based data integrity check?
>
> Never felt the need for one.
> I fail to see what's so hard in running:
>
> md5sum -c 
> sha256sum -c 
>
> But maybe some other list participant can help you here.

 I never said it was hard I am talking about running such utilities on
hundreds of thousands of files, but you clarified to me this is not
even necessary, since such sums are included in the deb file.

 By the way, if you were to recommend the best/most exhaustive and
reproducible documentation about how Debian's packaging system works,
that would be? Also, the mindset/"philosophy" behind it. Maybe I could
find the time to do a more elaborate "proof of concept" and submit it
for your consideration or heck even start yet another Debian knock
off.

>> >>  Nowadays you can safely assume that you do not own your computer
>>
>> > And refraining from using certain processor architectures and non-free
>> > operating systems ...
>>
>>  Your joke is beside my point
>
> I'm dead serious. If you're using x86 newer than Pentium the First,
> consider yourself pwned, because you do not control the hardware, they
> do. The only question is whenever it's a good, democratic US control, or
> totalitarian Chinese one.

 Did you just say: "The only question is whenever it's a 'good,
democratic US control', or totalitarian Chinese one."?

 That was some side sarcasm to keep the conversation a bit livelier,
amusing, right?!?

 I don't know what you know about the U.S. or the Chinese, "good,
democratic" or "un-Amerikan" governments. I can tell you that I grew
up in an open police state (adorably crazy Cuba), went to school
during stasi times in East Germany and I visited both Soviet Russia
and (later, Deng Xiaoping) China. So, I can claim to definitely know
more than two things about "bad, undemocratic" ("un-Amerikan")
governments. I also lived for 24 yea

Re: Authentication for telnet.

[peter]

From: Andy Smith 
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:03:14 +
> It is confusing why you would need to do this to localhost as you
> could just type "bash" (or dash or zsh or whatever) to get a new
> shell. So it would help our understanding if you were to explain
> what your use case is for this new interactive shell session.

Oberon has a client for protocol Telnet and a client for SSH. bash, 
dash, sudo, rlogin and many other tools don't exist in Oberon.  I 
avoided discussing this deliberately.  For most readers it's an 
annoying digression; for some will cause mental upset. 

In most Debian situations, once a user is logged in to the system, a 
shell session is opened without a password.  "telnet localhost" is 
analogous to that.  "ssh localhost" is rarely used.  If sitting in a 
public place, be careful that someone isn't watching when you type the 
password.

> So I think we really do still need to know more about your use case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon

I tried to make the orginal question as specific as possible.

Regards,  ... Peter E.

-- 
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Medical_Machines
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon
Tel: +1 604 670 0140Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

Re: Mail van Sander van Trigt

[john doe]

On 10/9/2019 1:07 PM, svantrig...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hallo allemaal...
> Ik hen een nieuwe laptop gekocht lenovo 330-15ibkr
> Nu wil ik er Debian op zetten.
> Maar welke raden jullie aan?
> De keuze is erg groot bij jullie.

This is the English mailing list of Debian, see (1) for the Duch mailing
list.

1)  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-dutch/

--
John Doe

Re: et.al.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Brian wrote:
> Note that there isn't any LDOSUBSCRIBER in the headers of this mail.

Your spam score worsened from -10.3 to 0.1 consequentially.
Shall we still believe that you are you ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: lenovo t410 - i915 - black screen

[tomas]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 12:53:43PM +, Frederic Robert wrote:
> On 10/9/19 12:38 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 09:04:06AM +, Frederic Robert wrote:
> >>How to find the card model? lspci?
> >
> >lspci -nn
> >
> >This will include the 8-digit hexadecimal PCI ID number, which is the
> >best indicator of what's actually inside the machine.
> >
> 
> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Core
> Processor Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0046] (rev 02)

Can't help directly, but perhaps you might find the corresponding
ThinkWiki page [1] of use.

Cheers

[1] https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/T410

-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: et.al., (was: Dependencies et al, was: Default Debian install harassed me)

[Brian]

On Tue 08 Oct 2019 at 00:25:44 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 18:42:38 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 07 Oct 2019 at 15:09:09 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > But how do Debian list servers know ?
> > 
> > A good question. How are my mails matched with my subscribed address
> > so that I am awarded the accolade of LDOSUBSCRIBER? On the basis that
> > my past statements about the SMTP protocol (whatever they were) have
> > not been well received, I decline to offer any suggestion.
> 
> Have we been told what your subscribed address is? I've assumed
> that it's the one in the envelope-from of the post I'm replying to.
> (I don't want to quote it.) Is that correct? Or maybe that …CII.eu one?

A decent assumption but, unfortunately, not correct. I've come to the
tentative conclusion that Debian can somehow link my envelope-from and
the subscribed address via their A records (or something like that).

Note that there isn't any LDOSUBSCRIBER in the headers of this mail.
 
> > > Is it because Exim 4.89 said "MAIL FROM:<...subscribed.address...>" to
> > > lists.debian.org ?
> > 
> > "subscribed.address" is the HELO and can be what I want it to be. See
> > the headers of my previous mail.
> 
> Why would you use a "subscribed.address" (presumably an email address)
> for your HELO (presumably actually a EHLO). I was under the impression
> that it should be a domain, ie a FQDN.

Sorry, I was probably less than precise. The 127.0.1.1 line in /etc/hosts
is a FQDN and is used by exim for the HELO/EHLO. /etc/mailname determines
the envelope-from.

> > > Or is it because the first mail hop added "envelope-from" to its Received:
> > > header ?
> > > 
> > >   Received: from ... by ... with local (Exim 4.89)
> > >   (envelope-from <...>)
> > >   id 1iHRiB-0006S7-Ks
> > >   for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:01:59 
> > > +0100
> > 
> > I can alter that too, and still be designated LDOSUBSCRIBER.
> 
> Have we observed that? I only had LDOSUBSCRIBER bestowed on me when my
> envelope-from became the same as my subscribed address, which followed as
> a consequence of my adopting the .corp domain name last year after seeing
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/12/icann_corp_home_mail_gtlds/
> Until then, exim4 didn't seem able to rewrite my headers because I
> didn't have a dot in my FQDN, only an unadorned hostname.

What I altered was the HELO/EHLO; it made no difference. Altering the
envelope-from did, but it would be unwise to assume I am not subscribed
to the list and receiving all mails. No Ccs needed. :)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Bible study tools in Debian repository - End-user support?

[Richard Owlett]

On 10/09/2019 07:06 AM, Curt wrote:

On 2019-10-09, Richard Owlett  wrote:

I'm running Debian 9.8 and have just installed BibleTime, Xiphos, and
diatheke. I expect BibleTime will become my primary tool. The available
documentation has breadth, if not depth.

For the type of usage questions I have, I have found archives of mailing
lists and USENET groups to be a valuable tool in filling in voids in my
background to avoid "newbie" confusion. I searched the various homepages
without finding what I was looking for. One site explicitly stated they
do not have publicly available user support fora. A web search turned up
some old posts, all several years old.


Have you looked here?

https://github.com/bibletime/bibletime/issues


Yes. None of the topics there seemed personally relevant.
Perhaps it is I just don't grok github itself. I've unproductively gone 
there before about other programs.




I guess you'd have to sign up for a GitHub account to participate.


Can anyone suggest an active mailing list or USNET group where usage
questions about these programs would be acceptably on-topic? I find web
based fora difficult to follow.

TIA

Re: stranges choices of printers

[Brian]

On Wed 09 Oct 2019 at 12:59:14 +0200, Pierre Frenkiel wrote:

> hi,
> I discoverd today some strange behaviours of different softwares for
> the choice of printers.
> 
> "lpstat -a" gives:
>  HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231 accepting requests since Thu 01 Aug 2019 09:00:53 
> AM CEST
> 
> printers seen on okular
>HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231
>HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227sdn_BDD3AA_
> 
> printers seen on evince or geeqie
>HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231
>ljp   paused
> 
>the latter is displayed even when cupsd is stopped
> 
> Can anybody explain that?

Is this on buster? How is the M227-M231 connected? USB? Networked?
Is cups-browsed running ('systemctl status cups-browsed')?

-- 
Brian.

Re: lenovo t410 - i915 - black screen

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 12:53:43PM +, Frederic Robert wrote:
> On 10/9/19 12:38 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 09:04:06AM +, Frederic Robert wrote:
> > > How to find the card model? lspci?
> > 
> > lspci -nn
> > 
> > This will include the 8-digit hexadecimal PCI ID number, which is the
> > best indicator of what's actually inside the machine.
> > 
> 
> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Core Processor
> Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0046] (rev 02)

OK, good start... this seems to be a roughly 9-year-old chipset,
with a code name of "Arrandale".

However, googling "lenovo t410" from the Subject: header led me to
 which says:

Video chipsets:
 * Intel HD Graphics
 * 256MB NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS3100M

Does this machine actually have both Intel and Nvidia devices?  If so,
it's seriously bad news, and it indicates you may have to try (and
probably fail) to use the stuff from .

More likely, you'll end up disabling one of the devives at the firmware
level, and simply using the other.  But I'm not a laptop user, let alone
an Optimus laptop user, so I'm only relaying what I've heard from others.

Re: Bible study tools in Debian repository - End-user support?

[Richard Owlett]

On 10/09/2019 06:28 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 05:41:02AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

I'm running Debian 9.8 and have just installed BibleTime, Xiphos, and
diatheke. I expect BibleTime will become my primary tool. The available
documentation has breadth, if not depth.

For the type of usage questions I have, I have found archives of mailing
lists and USENET groups to be a valuable tool in filling in voids in my
background to avoid "newbie" confusion. I searched the various homepages
without finding what I was looking for. One site explicitly stated they do
not have publicly available user support fora. A web search turned up some
old posts, all several years old.

Can anyone suggest an active mailing list or USNET group where usage
questions about these programs would be acceptably on-topic? I find web
based fora difficult to follow.


Hi Richard,

Based on your description, those types of discussions would be on-topic
for this list. 


I assumed that but believed that archives of a group specifically 
oriented to Bible study tools would fill gaps in my background.



However, if you are interested in a more focused
specifically oriented toward Bible study aids, or even Bible study aids
particularly in Debian, then I am not aware of such a specifically
focused group.  However, the Debian team that maintains most (or perhaps
all, I am not certain) of these packages has a mailing list here:
pkg-crosswire-de...@alioth-lists.debian.net


I browsed the posts at
[https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/pkg-crosswire-devel/]
for the last year. I don't think my initial questions would be suitably 
on topic.




As the name would suggest, the primary purpose of the list is
development-related discussions (bug reports, package maintenance,
etc.).  But if you have a look at the archives, the list goes long
periods without any discussion, which is to say that the traffic is
quite low.  If you are not able to find another list, feel free to ask
your questions there.  As far as a I know, all of us on the list are
active users of these tools in addition to maintaining them.  We should
be able to help you out with what you need there if you decide that your
questions are off-topic here on debian-user.

Regards,

-Roberto



My immediate BibleTime related questions include:
1. When display the Strong's entry for a word there is a field titled 
"Morphology:". I find no references to the meaning of the abbreviations 
used there.

2. Discussion of how to best use the "Personal commentary" tool.

Another issue is difference(s) (if any) in the target audience of 
BibleTime and Xiphos.


I know I don't have the latest release as this particular machine is 
still at Debian 9.8. I'll be installing Debian 10 soon but have some 
housekeeping issues to resolve first.


Thank you.

Re: lenovo t410 - i915 - black screen

[Frederic Robert]

On 10/9/19 12:38 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 09:04:06AM +, Frederic Robert wrote:

How to find the card model? lspci?


lspci -nn

This will include the 8-digit hexadecimal PCI ID number, which is the
best indicator of what's actually inside the machine.



00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Core 
Processor Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:0046] (rev 02)


--
Frederic Robert

Re: New Linux User needs some guidance

[Brian]

On Tue 08 Oct 2019 at 14:48:08 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Tony van der Hoff wrote:

[...]

> > To create a bootable image from a .iso, you need 'dd', i.e.
> 
> dd is a great tool, indeed, and i use it for the purpose out of tradition.
> But it does nothing essential for the copied image to be able to work.
> Any program run which produces a correct byte-by-byte copy of the image on
> the USB stick will do.
> 
> For example some useless use of "cat":
>   cat image.iso >/dev/sde

I still use this command out of habit on occasion, but it ceased to be a
recommended Debian method some time ago. See #660776:

 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=660776

> > Make sure you identify the correct usb stick for sdx, or you may end up
> > overwriting something important.
> 
> Yeah. This is a big problem. We'd need a desktop-user-safe GUI tool which
> by some AI detects the USB stick which is least worthy of preservation.

The cp or dd commands must run with root privileges. I run 'lsblk' before
and after plugging the USB device in. Writing an image to a USB stick is
not something to rush if you don't want a system disk to suffer.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Mail van Sander van Trigt

[Siard]

On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:07 +0200, svantrig...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hallo allemaal...
> Ik hen een nieuwe laptop gekocht lenovo 330-15ibkr
> Nu wil ik er Debian op zetten.
> Maar welke raden jullie aan?
> De keuze is erg groot bij jullie.
> Alvast bedank Sander van Trigt

Dit is een Engelstalige mailinglist.
Vragen in het Nederlands kun je beter richten aan:
debian-user-du...@lists.debian.org

Re: lenovo t410 - i915 - black screen

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 09:04:06AM +, Frederic Robert wrote:
> How to find the card model? lspci?

lspci -nn

This will include the 8-digit hexadecimal PCI ID number, which is the
best indicator of what's actually inside the machine.

Re: Bible study tools in Debian repository - End-user support?

[Curt]

On 2019-10-09, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> I'm running Debian 9.8 and have just installed BibleTime, Xiphos, and 
> diatheke. I expect BibleTime will become my primary tool. The available 
> documentation has breadth, if not depth.
>
> For the type of usage questions I have, I have found archives of mailing 
> lists and USENET groups to be a valuable tool in filling in voids in my 
> background to avoid "newbie" confusion. I searched the various homepages 
> without finding what I was looking for. One site explicitly stated they 
> do not have publicly available user support fora. A web search turned up 
> some old posts, all several years old.

Have you looked here?

https://github.com/bibletime/bibletime/issues

I guess you'd have to sign up for a GitHub account to participate.

> Can anyone suggest an active mailing list or USNET group where usage 
> questions about these programs would be acceptably on-topic? I find web 
> based fora difficult to follow.
>
> TIA
>
>
>
>


-- 
"There are no foreign lands. It is the traveler only who is foreign."
-- Robert Louis Stevenson

Re: Bible study tools in Debian repository - End-user support?

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 05:41:02AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm running Debian 9.8 and have just installed BibleTime, Xiphos, and
> diatheke. I expect BibleTime will become my primary tool. The available
> documentation has breadth, if not depth.
> 
> For the type of usage questions I have, I have found archives of mailing
> lists and USENET groups to be a valuable tool in filling in voids in my
> background to avoid "newbie" confusion. I searched the various homepages
> without finding what I was looking for. One site explicitly stated they do
> not have publicly available user support fora. A web search turned up some
> old posts, all several years old.
> 
> Can anyone suggest an active mailing list or USNET group where usage
> questions about these programs would be acceptably on-topic? I find web
> based fora difficult to follow.
> 
Hi Richard,

Based on your description, those types of discussions would be on-topic
for this list.  However, if you are interested in a more focused
specifically oriented toward Bible study aids, or even Bible study aids
particularly in Debian, then I am not aware of such a specifically
focused group.  However, the Debian team that maintains most (or perhaps
all, I am not certain) of these packages has a mailing list here:
pkg-crosswire-de...@alioth-lists.debian.net

As the name would suggest, the primary purpose of the list is
development-related discussions (bug reports, package maintenance,
etc.).  But if you have a look at the archives, the list goes long
periods without any discussion, which is to say that the traffic is
quite low.  If you are not able to find another list, feel free to ask
your questions there.  As far as a I know, all of us on the list are
active users of these tools in addition to maintaining them.  We should
be able to help you out with what you need there if you decide that your
questions are off-topic here on debian-user.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Mail van Sander van Trigt

[svantrigt75]

Hallo allemaal...
Ik hen een nieuwe laptop gekocht lenovo 330-15ibkr
Nu wil ik er Debian op zetten.
Maar welke raden jullie aan?
De keuze is erg groot bij jullie.
Alvast bedank Sander van Trigt

stranges choices of printers

[Pierre Frenkiel]

hi,
I discoverd today some strange behaviours of different softwares for
the choice of printers.

"lpstat -a" gives:
 HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231 accepting requests since Thu 01 Aug 2019 09:00:53 AM 
CEST

printers seen on okular
   HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231
   HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227sdn_BDD3AA_

printers seen on evince or geeqie
   HP_LaserJet_MFP_M227-M231
   ljp   paused

   the latter is displayed even when cupsd is stopped

Can anybody explain that?

best regards,
--
Pierre Frenkiel

Bible study tools in Debian repository - End-user support?

[Richard Owlett]

I'm running Debian 9.8 and have just installed BibleTime, Xiphos, and 
diatheke. I expect BibleTime will become my primary tool. The available 
documentation has breadth, if not depth.


For the type of usage questions I have, I have found archives of mailing 
lists and USENET groups to be a valuable tool in filling in voids in my 
background to avoid "newbie" confusion. I searched the various homepages 
without finding what I was looking for. One site explicitly stated they 
do not have publicly available user support fora. A web search turned up 
some old posts, all several years old.


Can anyone suggest an active mailing list or USNET group where usage 
questions about these programs would be acceptably on-topic? I find web 
based fora difficult to follow.


TIA

Re: lenovo t410 - i915 - black screen

[Frederic Robert]

On 10/9/19 6:34 AM, deloptes wrote:


this is not the exact card model. I think you have to look into the specs of
the hardware. For example for my desktop I see in the specs

Graphics brand name
Intel® HD Graphics or HD Graphics 2000 (depending on CPU)

if it is a lenovo notebook or pc you could also paste the model/version.


Lenovo thinkpad t410. How to find the card model? lspci? if i search on 
internet, it is Intel GMA HD Integrated Graphics


http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/lenovo-thinkpad-t410-review/

--
Frederic Robert

Re: how to get odbc working for connection to mariadb in debian buster

[Joe]

On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 21:54:00 -0400
John Covici  wrote:

> Well, I got it from git and it built correctly, the instructions were
> a bit different and it downloaded something during the build as well,
> so I hope it works, I will be testing soon.
> 
Best of luck. If it looks OK, please come back here and add onto this
thread the link to the instructions that worked, and anything else you
needed to do, it may help someone else one day. Maybe me...

-- 
Joe