Re: [OT] How to help the OP? (was: How long will this take?)

[David Wright]

On Wed 10 Jun 2020 at 15:48:01 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 09:20:50PM +0200, l0f...@tuta.io wrote:
> > 10 juin 2020 à 20:51 de mst...@debian.org:
> > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 12:02:13PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > >
> > >> Both l0f4r0 and I have asked why the OP
> > >> is zeroing the drive, but no reply yet. Perhaps you can suggest an
> > >> answer.
> > >>
> > > I don't really care why the OP is doing it. I can think of several 
> > > possibilities, but I don't see any need to argue with him over it. At 
> > > some point it's reasonable to simply accept that someone is trying to do 
> > > something and either help or not.

I haven't seen anyone arguing with the OP, even though there are
several arguments elsewhere in the thread.

> > It's the usual dilemma on mailing-lists/forums:
> > * Are the respondents supposed to answer the  OP question directly without 
> > hindsight (potential XY problem sometimes - http://xyproblem.info/)?
> > * Or are they expected to put the issue into perspective and challenge it? 
> > I know it can be frustrating because this is not always the answer we as OP 
> > want to read but it can be really instructive as we understand we were on a 
> > wrong track.
> > 
> > I'm still divided on this subject, maybe we need both depending on the 
> > context/OP...

I don't see it as a dilemma; it's been opined many a time here that
people answer the question however they want. Sometimes that might
involve asking questions, and on occasions a thread might end up like
a round of Twenty Questions.

> In general, I think that once someone's been asked a question multiple
> times, especially when that question isn't really germane, it's just
> rude to keep insisting on an answer. JMO.

Who insisted on an answer? I didn't actually ask any direct question
of the OP, and l0f4r0 merely asked out of curiosity. You seem to
imply that the OP was being hectored. All my direct questions have
been asked of you. Thanks for the answers.

Cheers,
David.

Re: How long will this take?

[David Wright]

On Wed 10 Jun 2020 at 14:51:32 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 12:02:13PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

[snipped the first part as it's covered elsewhere]

> > My use case for badblocks was closer to that of the OP, but still
> > different. Firstly, the disk contained personal data from unencrypted
> > use in the past. Secondly, I was intending to use it encrypted (as
> > mentioned) and prefer no high-watermark.  Thirdly, because of its
> > age (2011), I was interested in seeing how well it performed. I have
> > no idea whether the disk is "modern" in the sense you used, as I don't
> > follow the technology like some people on this list evidently do.
> > Fourthly, I don't make a habit of throwing away 2TB disks.
> 
> badblocks isn't particularly useful for achieving any of those goals
> vs just writing zeros. "modern" in this context means anything since
> probably the mid 90s but my memory is a bit fuzzy on the exact dates.
> certainly anything since the turn of the century.
> 
> > But, as you know about these things, a few questions:
> > 
> > . How does badblocks do its job in readonly mode, given that it
> >  doesn't know what any block's content ought to be.
> 
> you have to write the test data ahead of time
> 
> > . Why might the OP run badblocks, particularly non-destructively
> >  (as if to preserve something), and *then* zero the drive.
> 
> the only person I saw mention badblocks in this thread was you, but I
> guess I might have missed it

No, you're right, I brought it up, and I *am* conflating two things:
the OP running an unspecified "read test", reading every sector
looking for errors, and a hypothetical person running badblocks.

If you were preserving the disk contents (imagine there were
proprietary encryption software on it), and performed a "read test"
or ran badblocks on it, would that be sufficient to test the disk's
performance, as it's merely reading the sectors. Or do you have to
actually write, with badblocks -r for example?

> > . What's the easiest way of finding out about "consistent bad
> >  (not remappable) sectors" on a drive, as I soon will have to
> >  repeat this result (if not by this exact process) with a 3TB
> >  disk of 2013 vintage. (The good news: it has a USB3 connection.)
> 
> you'll get a bunch of errors while writing, and probably the drive
> will drop offline. you can use smartctl in the smartmontools package
> to see the status of retries & remapped sectors and get a health
> report on the drive, which you can use to decide whether to keep the
> drive in service even if it is currently working. (as a drive ages it
> will often record an increasing number of correctable errors, which
> typically will result in failure in the not-distant future.)

OK, so as far as the 2TB disk is concerned, writing anything over the
entire disk will provoke the reporting and/or remapping of any bad
sectors by SMART, so you can then check the statistics.

The only unaddressed point in my use case is the prevention of a
high-water mark, because zeroing the drive achieves precisely the
opposite. What ought I to be running, instead of badblocks -w -t random,
to achieve that goal?

> a confounding factor is that you might also get write errors and
> dropped disk if there's a USB issue, separate from whether the drive
> is working properly. smartctl may help you understand whether there's
> a physical drive issue, and you can try different USB adapters, ports,
> and cables.

Actually, one of the difficulties I have with the 3TB disk is reading
its SMART information. The disk claims to collect and retain it, but
the ?protocol/?device interface (in the container?) prevents my
reading it successfully. But I'll ask about that in a separate post
sometime.

Cheers,
David.

Re: why !oh why Debian and application list

[A_Man_Without_Clue]

On 6/8/20 2:23 AM, Seeds Notoneofmy wrote:
> Well, as the subject suggests, I'm a bit fed up with the logic behind
> how installed programs are sorted out in the Applications menu.
> 
> The need to go hunt down an installed application seems yester century.
> 
> I just installed Picard, and it does not show up in Sound and Video,
> where logic would suggest it be.
> 
> I had to dial it up from the command line.
> 
> I'm willing and ready to be educated on why things are such with Debian.
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 


Mine appears under "Sound & Video"

I'm using LXDE Debian Buster.

Re: Ajuda com o Kmymoney

[riesdra]

as datas e horas do meu debian estão certas, não entendo como isto ocorreu.


--
Ricardo Libanio





 Ativado Thu, 11 Jun 2020 21:54:33 -0300 Rodolfo  
escreveu 


Vc verificou se houve alteração no timezone?


Em qui, 11 de jun de 2020 20:49, riesdra  escreveu:





Olá a todos, tenho um arquivo do kmymoney que uso ele desde 01/2008 de uns dias 
pra cá ao salvar ele esta me dando uma mensagem de erro de data 27/12/1898. Não 
sei como criou um lançamento com esta data e valor zero, no localizar acho ele, 
mas ali não deixa excluir, ao dar 2 clique ele vai pra conta mas não carrega o 
lançamento acho que por causa da data antiga dele, alguém tem ideia de como 
posso excluir este lançamento?

desde já agradeço a todos.





--
Ricardo Libanio

Re: Ajuda com o Kmymoney

[Rodolfo]

Vc verificou se houve alteração no timezone?

Em qui, 11 de jun de 2020 20:49, riesdra  escreveu:

> Olá a todos, tenho um arquivo do kmymoney que uso ele desde 01/2008 de uns
> dias pra cá ao salvar ele esta me dando uma mensagem de erro de data
> 27/12/1898. Não sei como criou um lançamento com esta data e valor zero, no
> localizar acho ele, mas ali não deixa excluir, ao dar 2 clique ele vai pra
> conta mas não carrega o lançamento acho que por causa da data antiga dele,
> alguém tem ideia de como posso excluir este lançamento?
>
> desde já agradeço a todos.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Ricardo Libanio*
>
>
>
>

Ajuda com o Kmymoney

[riesdra]

Olá a todos, tenho um arquivo do kmymoney que uso ele desde 01/2008 de uns dias 
pra cá ao salvar ele esta me dando uma mensagem de erro de data 27/12/1898. Não 
sei como criou um lançamento com esta data e valor zero, no localizar acho ele, 
mas ali não deixa excluir, ao dar 2 clique ele vai pra conta mas não carrega o 
lançamento acho que por causa da data antiga dele, alguém tem ideia de como 
posso excluir este lançamento?

desde já agradeço a todos.





--
Ricardo Libanio

Re: Zoom- best practice?

[Ryan Nowakowski]

On Fri, Jun 05, 2020 at 09:28:21AM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> Family is using Zoom, International.
> They will use Zoom, and I need to participate.
> 
> I use Debian Mate Stable, and Firefox ESR
> 
> I am concerned about security, duh!
> Looking for ideas.
> 
> my current thoughts, in order of preference:
> 
> 2. Sandbox? (but how can I do that?)

You might consider installing zoom as a snap package[1] instead of a deb.
Snaps provide some confinement that, in theory, provide some extra level
of security(harder for zoom to spread files all over your system, etc)

Alternatively, install the zoom deb package in a chroot[2].  I like to
use schroot to help with this kind of thing.

Then create a separate dedicated user just for running zoom.  That will
help limit zoom's access to your normal user's data.

[1] https://snapcraft.io/install/zoom-client/debian
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/chroot

Re: why !oh why Debian and application list

[l0f4r0]

Hi,

11 juin 2020 à 23:13 de notoneofmyse...@gmx.de:

> On 6/7/20 10:58 PM, l0f...@tuta.io wrote:
>
>> Please just run the following commands as a simple user (no need to cd to 
>> anything):
>> * cat /usr/share/applications/org.musicbrainz.Picard.desktop
>> * cat /usr/share/metainfo/org.musicbrainz.Picard.appdata.xml
>> * desktop-file-validate 
>> /usr/share/applications/org.musicbrainz.Picard.desktop
>> * echo $?
>>
> Results attached. And thanks a lot!
>
I have the exact same files...
Since your issue is about the DE Applications menu, maybe you could take a 
chance with packages Alacarte or MenuLibre?

Best regards & Good luck!
l0f4r0

Re: why !oh why Debian and application list

[Seeds Notoneofmy]

On 6/8/20 8:20 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:


Debian does very little customization of the various Desktop
Environments, you are experiencing upstream's take on usability.

Kind regards,
Andrei

Thanks a lot, Andrei, this is very, very helpful.

Re: why !oh why Debian and application list

[Seeds Notoneofmy]

On 6/7/20 10:58 PM, l0f...@tuta.io wrote:


Please just run the following commands as a simple user (no need to cd to 
anything):
* cat /usr/share/applications/org.musicbrainz.Picard.desktop
* cat /usr/share/metainfo/org.musicbrainz.Picard.appdata.xml
* desktop-file-validate /usr/share/applications/org.musicbrainz.Picard.desktop
* echo $?

Results attached. And thanks a lot!
 cat /usr/share/applications/org.musicbrainz.Picard.desktop
[Desktop Entry]
Name=MusicBrainz Picard
Comment=Tag your music with the next generation MusicBrainz tagger
Exec=picard %F
Terminal=false
Type=Application
StartupNotify=true
StartupWMClass=MusicBrainz-Picard
Icon=org.musicbrainz.Picard
Categories=AudioVideo;Audio;AudioVideoEditing;
MimeType=audio/x-mp3;audio/ogg;audio/mpeg;application/ogg;audio/x-flac;audio/x-flac+ogg;audio/x-vorbis+ogg;audio/x-speex+ogg;audio/x-oggflac;audio/x-musepack;audio/x-tta;audio/x-ms-wma;audio/x-wavpack;



cat /usr/share/metainfo/org.musicbrainz.Picard.appdata.xml


  org.musicbrainz.Picard
  GPL-2.0-or-later
  CC0-1.0
  Picard
  Picard
  Picard
  Picard
  פיקארד
  Picard
  Picard
  Picard
  Picard
  MusicBrainz's music tagger
  MusicBrainz 的音樂標籤管理程式
  MusicBrainz’ muziektagger
  Il tagger musicale di MusicBrainz
  מתייג מוזיקה של MusicBrainz
  Le baliseur de fichiers audio de MusicBrainz
  MusicBrainzin musiikkitunnisteiden 
hallintaohjelma
  Etiquetador de música MusicBrainz
  MusicBrainz Musik-Tagger
  

  Do you need to clean up your music library? Picard is an open-source
  cross-platform music tagger by MusicBrainz. It has the ability to
  identify audio files even without any existing metadata.

您需要整理您的音樂收藏庫？Picard 是開放源代碼且跨平臺的音樂標籤管理程式，由 MusicBrainz 
製作。就算沒有後設資料參考，它也有能力辨識音訊檔案。
Wil je je muziekbibliotheek opschonen? Picard is een 
openbron muziektagger voor meerdere platformen van MusicBrainz. Het kan je 
audiobestanden zelfs zonder bestaande tags identificeren.
Vuoi riordinare la tua libreria musicale? Picard è un 
tagger musicale open-source e multipiattaforma di MusicBrainz. È in grado di 
identificare file audio anche in assenza di metadati.
צריכים לנקות את ספריית המוזיקה שלכם? פיקארד הוא מתייג 
מוזיקה בקוד פתוח, חוצת פלטפורמת על ידי MusicBrainz. בעל יכולת זיהוי קבצי שמע גם 
ללא מטא נתונים קיימים.
Avez-vous besoin de nettoyer votre collection de musique ? 
Picard est un baliseur de fichiers musicaux libre et multi-plateformes par 
MusicBrainz. Il est capable d'identifier les fichiers audio même sans aucune 
métadonnée existante.
Haluaisitko järjestää musiikkikirjastosi? Picard on 
avoimen lähdekoodin alustariippumaton musiikkitunnisteiden hallintaohjelma 
MusicBrainzilta. Se pystyy tunnistaamaan äänitiedostoja jopa ilman niiden 
sisältämää metatietoa.
¿Necesitas ordenar tu biblioteca de música? 
Picard es un etiquetador de música multiplataforma open source de MusicBrainz. 
Tiene la capacidad de identificar archivos de audio incluso sin metadatos 
disponibles.
Musst du deine Musik-Sammlung aufräumen? Picard ist ein 
plattformübergreifender Open Source Musik-Tagger von MusicBrainz. Er kann 
Audio-Dateien selbst ohne vorhandene Metadaten identifizieren.

  A variety of plugins are available and you can even write your own.
  Picard supports a wide range of audio formats and can also lookup an
  entire CD for you.

不僅擁有豐富的套件可安裝，您也可以製作自己的套件。Picard 支援許多音訊格式，而且也可以為您查找整張 
CD。
Er zijn veel plug-ins beschikbaar en je kunt ook zelf 
plug-ins schrijven. Picard ondersteunt een breed scala audioformaten en kan ook 
een hele cd voor je opzoeken.
Diversi plugin sono già disponibili e puoi persino crearne 
di nuovi. Picard supporta una vasta gamma di formati audio e può anche cercare 
un intero CD per te.
זמינים מגוון של מִתְקָעים, תוכלו אפילו לכתוב משלכם. פיקארד 
תומך במגוון רחב של תבניות שמע ויכול גם לחפש תקליטור שלם.
Des greffons divers sont disponibles et vous pouvez écrire 
le vôtre. Picard supporte un grand nombre de formats audio et peut aussi 
rechercher un CD complet pour vous.
Picardiin on useita liitännäisiä, ja voit jopa luoda 
omiakin. Picard tukee useita äänitiedostomuotoja ja pystyy etsimään myös 
CD-levyn perusteella.
Picard ofrece una serie de complementos e incluso puedes 
crear los tuyos. Admite una amplia gama de formatos de audio y hasta puede 
buscar en un CD completo.
Es steht eine Vielzahl an Plugins zur Verfügung und du 
kannst sogar deine eigenen schreiben. Picard unterstützt viele Audio-Formate 
und kann auch die gesamten Daten einer CD abfragen.

  Tagging audio files has never been easier.

管理音訊檔案的標籤從來沒有這麼簡單。
Het taggen van audiobestanden was nog nooit zo 
makkelijk.
Taggare file audio non è mai stato così facile.
תיוג קובצי שמע מעולם לא היה קל יותר.
Baliser des fichiers audio n'a jamais été aussi facile.
Äänitiedostojen tunnisteiden hallitseminen ei ole ollut 
koskaan näin helppoa.
Etiquetar archivos de música nunca ha sido tan fácil.
 

Re: consulta

[Àlex]

El 11/6/20 a les 21:25, meva masia ha escrit:
> /*hola
> */
> /*¿Com desactivar nom i clau, en pantalla d'inici, de Debian 10.4?
> */
> /*ho he indicat en la instalacion, (torneu a instal·lar més de 3
> vegades, per les) però ni puto cas, també en: sudo visudo i res ...*/
> /**/
> /*gràcies*/


Bones

No em queda clara la pregunta. Vols dir activar l'inici automàtic de
sessió? Quin escriptori tens? Gnome?

Potser això et serveix:

   https://vitux.com/how-to-enable-disable-automatic-login-in-debian-10/

Salut

Re: consulta

[Àlex]

El 11/6/20 a les 21:25, meva masia ha escrit:
> /*hola
> */
> /*¿Com desactivar nom i clau, en pantalla d'inici, de Debian 10.4?
> */
> /*ho he indicat en la instalacion, (torneu a instal·lar més de 3
> vegades, per les) però ni puto cas, també en: sudo visudo i res ...*/
> /**/
> /*gràcies*/


Bones

No em queda clara la pregunta. Vols dir activar l'inici automàtic de
sessió? Quin escriptori tens? Gnome?

Potser això et serveix:

   https://vitux.com/how-to-enable-disable-automatic-login-in-debian-10/

Salut

Re: Fw: Fw: How long will this take?

[Kenneth Parker]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:05 PM Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Matthew Campbell wrote:
> > The process is complete. The 4 TB drive has been successfully blanked in
> less than 40 hours using dd. It got done between 11 pm last night and 12 am
> this morning. dd showed an overall average write speed of 28.4 MB/s. It was
> never my intention to start a war. My sincere apologies if I have said or
> done anything to offend anyone. I prefer to test out new hardware after I
> buy it and I prefer to blank new hard drives before partitioning and
> writing out new file systems. Thank you to each of you for your assistance.
> >
>
> I think you stated your issue well, responded to queries, and
> reported back with the results. Thanks for being part of the
> community.
>

+1

I concur.  I do things that some people think of as strange myself.

Good luck, Matthew!

Kenneth Parker

>

consulta

[meva masia]

*hola*

*¿Com desactivar nom i clau, en pantalla d'inici, de Debian 10.4? *
*ho he indicat en la instalacion, (torneu a instal·lar més de 3 vegades,
per les) però ni puto cas, també en: sudo visudo i res ...*
*gràcies*

Re: Investigating internals of Debian packages

[Tom Dial]

On 6/11/20 05:03, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection".
> I want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop environment"
> and/or "MATE" is checked.

Pretty much the same thing that happens when you enter the command
"tasksel," I think.

/usr/bin/tasksel is a perl program, so not impossible for a human to
read and understand. It is less difficult than many perl programs I have
seen, and it also has a man page indicating that it has a test mode that
does nothing, as well as several information options.

In test mode it runs much as you see during and install, but instead of
doing the requested action, it prints on the terminal the apt command
that would be run. (Note that you would have to do this as root or using
the sudo command).

Synaptic or probably aptitude could then be used to identify which
packages would be installed. In the alternative, you could capture the
output and run it in test mode, which would show fairly precisely the
effect.


Regards,
Tom Dial

> TIA

Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster

[D. R. Evans]

Virgo Pärna wrote on 6/11/20 1:27 AM:
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 14:10:45 -0600, D. R. Evans  wrote:
>> For example:
>>   if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one,
>> even though both characters are present in the text
>>   if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two
>> "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it
>> displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters
>>
> 
>   What happens, if you change the default composition font. Sounds
> like those are rendered as ligatures. I'm using Windows, but when I set
> monospace font to Cascadia code, I started getting similar issues.

Oh, that's very interesting. Yep, changing font "fixed" the problem.

It's a puzzle why someone thought would think that this would be a good way
for the rendering engine to work. I can think of a few of reasons for it NOT
to behave this way, and none for why it's a good idea.

I'll have to dig in and see if there's a way to turn it off. I'll look at the
details of the font as well; I'm not at all sure what exactly is telling TB
"if you see two consecutive "less-than" signs, then render them as a single
"much less than" character. No other program seems to be doing it, so it seems
to be a TB decision somewhere; but since it seems to be font-dependent, TB
must (presumably) be looking at some characteristic of the font before
deciding to make the substitution. Very strange.

Thanks for the suggestion that it might be dependent on the font.

  Doc

-- 
Web:  http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans



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Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[Gaëtan Perrier]

Le jeudi 11 juin 2020 à 16:11 +0200, Michel a écrit :
> 
> Bonjour Gaëtan,
> 
> Non, je suis en stable ( Buster ), avec mises à jour hebdomadaires...
> En lançant un simple hp-scan, on entends le scanner se mettre en route,
> puis tout s'arrête avec le message:
> error: SANE: Error during device I/O (code=9)
> Closing device.
> 

Ton user est bien dans le groupe scanner ?


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Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[Gaëtan Perrier]

Le jeudi 11 juin 2020 à 16:11 +0200, Michel a écrit :
> Le 11/06/2020 à 15:50, Gaëtan PERRIER a écrit :
> > Le jeudi 11 juin 2020 à 09:23 +0200, Michel a écrit :
> > > Le 11/06/2020 à 01:20, Gaëtan Perrier a écrit :
> > > > Le mercredi 10 juin 2020 à 08:07 +0200, Pierre Malard a écrit :
> > > > > Bonjour,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Oui, bof !
> > > > > Effectivement une imprimante laser coûte plus tant en électricité que
> > > > > achat.
> > > > > Cependant …
> > > > > 
> > > > > À l’usage, n’utilisant l’impression que très occasionnellement, ce de
> > > > > plus en
> > > > > plus, mais en en ayant toujours besoin dans ces cas, je me suis rendu
> > > > > compte
> > > > > que :
> > > > > - À chaque fois les buses de ma jet d’encre était encrassées
> > > > > - Si l’imprimante est prévue pour « laver » ses buses régulièrement …
> > > > > les
> > > > > réservoirs étaient vides…
> > > > > Du coup je suis obligé de racheter à chaque fois des cartouches sans
> > > > > les
> > > > > avoir réellement utilisées quand ce n’est pas carrément l’imprimante
> > > > > si
> > > > > tout
> > > > > ça est complètement collé… De plus l’équilibre des couleurs et le
> > > > > mouillage
> > > > > du papier n’est pas au plus top même avec HP.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Il y a 3 ans j’ai fini par acheter une imprimante laser couleur
> > > > > multifonctions HP et j’en suis très content.
> > > > > Je m’en sert pour imprimer une fois tous les 6 mois en moyenne, je
> > > > > n’ai
> > > > > plus
> > > > > de problèmes de cartouche vide ni collée, les couleurs sont de bien
> > > > > meilleure
> > > > > qualité, le papier n’est plus gondolé.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Finalement, tout ça me coûte bien moins cher que mes imprimantes jet
> > > > > d’encre.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Je suis assez d'accord avec toi. Perso avec une HP Envy 7640 je
> > > > l'allume
> > > > systématiquement quand j'allume l'ordi même si je ne dois pas m'en
> > > > servir.
> > > > De
> > > > cette manière je n'ai plus de problème de cartouche qui sèche. Mais ça
> > > > consomme
> > > > de l'électricité en permanence (je ne sais pas combien). Avec une laser
> > > > je
> > > > consommerai certes plus lors des impressions mais le reste du temps je
> > > > pourrais
> > > > la laisser éteinte sans me poser de question.
> > > > Au final je pense que ma prochaine multifonction sera laser et très
> > > > probablement une HP pour le suivi des pilotes dans le temps.
> > > > Toutes les imprimantes supportées sont listées ici:
> > > > https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index
> > > > 
> > > > Gaëtan
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Il y a des infos qui m’inquiètent: j'ai une HP LaserJet Pro MFP M28a.
> > > Pas de problème pour l'impression. En revanche, dans ce tableau, il est
> > > spécifié que le scanner est supporté depuis la version 3.18.4 de hplip,
> > > et chez moi, pas de scan possible, toujours en erreur, pourtant avec la
> > > version 3.18.12.
> > > 
> > 
> > Si tu es en tsting ou sid vérifie que tu es bien à jour car il y a eu un
> > problème de dépendance récemment qui empêchait le scan sur les
> > multifonction
> > HP.
> > 
> > Gaëtan
> > 
> 
> Bonjour Gaëtan,
> 
> Non, je suis en stable ( Buster ), avec mises à jour hebdomadaires...
> En lançant un simple hp-scan, on entends le scanner se mettre en route,
> puis tout s'arrête avec le message:
> error: SANE: Error during device I/O (code=9)
> Closing device.
> 

Tu as vérifié la conf de sane par rapport à ce scanner ?



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Re: Fw: Fw: How long will this take?

[Dan Ritter]

Matthew Campbell wrote: 
> The process is complete. The 4 TB drive has been successfully blanked in less 
> than 40 hours using dd. It got done between 11 pm last night and 12 am this 
> morning. dd showed an overall average write speed of 28.4 MB/s. It was never 
> my intention to start a war. My sincere apologies if I have said or done 
> anything to offend anyone. I prefer to test out new hardware after I buy it 
> and I prefer to blank new hard drives before partitioning and writing out new 
> file systems. Thank you to each of you for your assistance.
> 

I think you stated your issue well, responded to queries, and
reported back with the results. Thanks for being part of the
community.

-dsr-

Re: Reply semantics, yet again (was Re: Zoom- best practice?)

[Nicolas George]

[ It comes back to Jitsi and its license after a few paragraphs. And it
is appalling. ]

The Wanderer (12020-06-10):
> What's with the stray 1, here?

We are in 12020 HE = 2020 CE, HE stands for Holocene Era, or possibly
Human Era, it is just shifted by 1 from the Common Era. As a
consequence, all interesting dates are positive, since there was not
much going on earlier than 12000 years ago that would warrant an
accurate date.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czgOWmtGVGs

> Not so much so; when not replying to a message received through a
> mailing list, the button is grayed out and unavailable, because there is
> no address for it to use.
> 
> So still "notice", to some degree, but not "remember", because the
> software handles that for me.

This proves my point: this is bad UI design. Instead of disabling the
button, it should revert to the non-list behavior. That would allow you
to click on it always, without having to take notice.

> Don't get me wrong; my original position on this, which I'd still prefer
> a solution that makes possible, is that the basic Reply function should
> do "smart" detection of the default reply target in all cases. I have
> rants written up about what the logic for determining the default should
> be, and I suspect that you'd agree with their results.

Probably. What I observe is with maling-lists that set the reply-to for
subscribers, I can use the G group-reply command and it does what I want
more than nine times out of ten.

> But I've seen persuasive argument that there's no way to make such
> "smart" reply direction detection smart enough that you don't need to
> override it in some cases, and that the number of different UI

Ah, the classic "we can't make it perfect, let's not make it at all"
fallacy.

> elements which would be needed to for all the different possible
> override types (reply respecting Reply-To, reply to sender, reply to
> list, reply-all, reply to list and sender, reply respecting Reply-To
> except also include list, ...) would very quickly proliferate to the
> point of unwieldiness.

This too is quite a fallacy.

> FWIW, since I wrote that I've looked at things a bit deeper. (Though not
> much.)
> 
> They do, apparently, update the JARs (lib/installer-exclude/) on a
> somewhat regular basis; there is a commit under that directory every few
> months or so, and most of them involve a commit message which looks
> related to updating from upstream.
> 
> The SOs (and DLLs, and .dylib / .jnilib files), on the other hand... the
> most recent log entry for the lib/native/ directory is from 2017, and
> the ones before that quickly go to 2016 and 2015 and on earlier. These
> appear to be mostly put in place and ignored, except when something
> breaks. (On the Linux side, only one of the .so files - libunix-java.so
> - appears to exist in current Debian testing / stable; that does not
> speak well for the possibility of being able to identify the appropriate
> upstreams.)

Oh, thanks for finding these. It is so much worse than I thought. They
are playing fast-and-loose not only with their build process, they are
playing fast-and-loose with the licenses of the dependencies and with
security.

I can even say: they are violating my copyright.

They distribute binaries of projects that are distributed under the
terms of the GPL, but nowhere have I found the corresponding source
code, nor a written offer for it, as specified in article 6 “Conveying
Non-Source Forms” of the GPL.

I will grant you that they do not do so out of nefarious intent, only
negligence. But that negligence shows that they do not understand a
significant part of what Libre Software is about.

And they are shipping a five-years old FFmpeg binary. In the last five
years, a few security-relevant bugs have been fixed in FFmpeg.

People, take notice: this is one of the reasons we insist on proper
packaging and being able to rebuild from source entirely: to allow
security upgrades for the included libraries.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: Investigating internals of Debian packages

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/11/2020 06:24 AM, The Wanderer wrote:

On 2020-06-11 at 07:03, Richard Owlett wrote:


I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection". I
want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop
environment" and/or "MATE" is checked.


If you want to know the specific sequence of coded actions, you'll have
to look at the source of that menu,


That was what I wanted. I had seen task-mate-desktop before and I'm not 
seeing what I expected from what I installed and how I did the 
installation *THIS TIME*. I'll have to try to reproduce a former 
installation.


Will not have opportunity at least until tomorrow.
Thank you to you and others who responded.



which I expect is part of
debian-installer. (And possibly follow up from there to look in other
places, depending on what that source shows.)

If you just want to know more generally, look at the output of the
following:

$ apt-cache search ^task-

As I understand matters, the things which can be selected for
installation during the Debian installer bootstrap process are called
"tasks", and every single one has a corresponding package whose name
begins with 'task-'. The descriptions of those packages match (and are
probably the origin of) the entries in that menu.

These packages then depend on a selection of other packages, which
actually contain the files necessary to provide the thing selected. As
far as I know, these task-* packages don't contain any files of their
own, other than a single file each under /usr/share/doc/.

In particular, "Debian desktop environment" corresponds to the package
'task-desktop', and "MATE" corresponds to the package
'task-mate-desktop'.

The step-by-step actions which happen to get each selected package and
its dependencies installed (including such details as whether Recommends
are treated as important, and whether something is done to cause the
depended-on packages to be marked as manually installed) I do not know;
if I wanted to find out, then as above, I'd have to investigate
debian-installer itself.

Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[Michel]

Le 11/06/2020 à 15:50, Gaëtan PERRIER a écrit :
> Le jeudi 11 juin 2020 à 09:23 +0200, Michel a écrit :
>> Le 11/06/2020 à 01:20, Gaëtan Perrier a écrit :
>>> Le mercredi 10 juin 2020 à 08:07 +0200, Pierre Malard a écrit :
 Bonjour,

 Oui, bof !
 Effectivement une imprimante laser coûte plus tant en électricité que
 achat.
 Cependant …

 À l’usage, n’utilisant l’impression que très occasionnellement, ce de
 plus en
 plus, mais en en ayant toujours besoin dans ces cas, je me suis rendu
 compte
 que :
 - À chaque fois les buses de ma jet d’encre était encrassées
 - Si l’imprimante est prévue pour « laver » ses buses régulièrement … les
 réservoirs étaient vides…
 Du coup je suis obligé de racheter à chaque fois des cartouches sans les
 avoir réellement utilisées quand ce n’est pas carrément l’imprimante si
 tout
 ça est complètement collé… De plus l’équilibre des couleurs et le
 mouillage
 du papier n’est pas au plus top même avec HP.

 Il y a 3 ans j’ai fini par acheter une imprimante laser couleur
 multifonctions HP et j’en suis très content.
 Je m’en sert pour imprimer une fois tous les 6 mois en moyenne, je n’ai
 plus
 de problèmes de cartouche vide ni collée, les couleurs sont de bien
 meilleure
 qualité, le papier n’est plus gondolé.

 Finalement, tout ça me coûte bien moins cher que mes imprimantes jet
 d’encre.

>>>
>>> Je suis assez d'accord avec toi. Perso avec une HP Envy 7640 je l'allume
>>> systématiquement quand j'allume l'ordi même si je ne dois pas m'en servir.
>>> De
>>> cette manière je n'ai plus de problème de cartouche qui sèche. Mais ça
>>> consomme
>>> de l'électricité en permanence (je ne sais pas combien). Avec une laser je
>>> consommerai certes plus lors des impressions mais le reste du temps je
>>> pourrais
>>> la laisser éteinte sans me poser de question.
>>> Au final je pense que ma prochaine multifonction sera laser et très
>>> probablement une HP pour le suivi des pilotes dans le temps.
>>> Toutes les imprimantes supportées sont listées ici:
>>> https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index
>>>
>>> Gaëtan
>>>
>>
>> Il y a des infos qui m’inquiètent: j'ai une HP LaserJet Pro MFP M28a.
>> Pas de problème pour l'impression. En revanche, dans ce tableau, il est
>> spécifié que le scanner est supporté depuis la version 3.18.4 de hplip,
>> et chez moi, pas de scan possible, toujours en erreur, pourtant avec la
>> version 3.18.12.
>>
> 
> Si tu es en tsting ou sid vérifie que tu es bien à jour car il y a eu un
> problème de dépendance récemment qui empêchait le scan sur les multifonction
> HP.
> 
> Gaëtan
> 

Bonjour Gaëtan,

Non, je suis en stable ( Buster ), avec mises à jour hebdomadaires...
En lançant un simple hp-scan, on entends le scanner se mettre en route,
puis tout s'arrête avec le message:
error: SANE: Error during device I/O (code=9)
Closing device.

Fazer live cantando sertanejo universitário pra comemorar os 2 anos do bug aberto

[Helio Loureiro]

E continua lá...

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=901321

Best Regards,
Helio Loureiro
http://helio.loureiro.eng.br
http://br.linkedin.com/in/helioloureiro
http://twitter.com/helioloureiro

Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[Gaëtan PERRIER]

Le jeudi 11 juin 2020 à 09:23 +0200, Michel a écrit :
> Le 11/06/2020 à 01:20, Gaëtan Perrier a écrit :
> > Le mercredi 10 juin 2020 à 08:07 +0200, Pierre Malard a écrit :
> > > Bonjour,
> > > 
> > > Oui, bof !
> > > Effectivement une imprimante laser coûte plus tant en électricité que
> > > achat.
> > > Cependant …
> > > 
> > > À l’usage, n’utilisant l’impression que très occasionnellement, ce de
> > > plus en
> > > plus, mais en en ayant toujours besoin dans ces cas, je me suis rendu
> > > compte
> > > que :
> > > - À chaque fois les buses de ma jet d’encre était encrassées
> > > - Si l’imprimante est prévue pour « laver » ses buses régulièrement … les
> > > réservoirs étaient vides…
> > > Du coup je suis obligé de racheter à chaque fois des cartouches sans les
> > > avoir réellement utilisées quand ce n’est pas carrément l’imprimante si
> > > tout
> > > ça est complètement collé… De plus l’équilibre des couleurs et le
> > > mouillage
> > > du papier n’est pas au plus top même avec HP.
> > > 
> > > Il y a 3 ans j’ai fini par acheter une imprimante laser couleur
> > > multifonctions HP et j’en suis très content.
> > > Je m’en sert pour imprimer une fois tous les 6 mois en moyenne, je n’ai
> > > plus
> > > de problèmes de cartouche vide ni collée, les couleurs sont de bien
> > > meilleure
> > > qualité, le papier n’est plus gondolé.
> > > 
> > > Finalement, tout ça me coûte bien moins cher que mes imprimantes jet
> > > d’encre.
> > > 
> > 
> > Je suis assez d'accord avec toi. Perso avec une HP Envy 7640 je l'allume
> > systématiquement quand j'allume l'ordi même si je ne dois pas m'en servir.
> > De
> > cette manière je n'ai plus de problème de cartouche qui sèche. Mais ça
> > consomme
> > de l'électricité en permanence (je ne sais pas combien). Avec une laser je
> > consommerai certes plus lors des impressions mais le reste du temps je
> > pourrais
> > la laisser éteinte sans me poser de question.
> > Au final je pense que ma prochaine multifonction sera laser et très
> > probablement une HP pour le suivi des pilotes dans le temps.
> > Toutes les imprimantes supportées sont listées ici:
> > https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index
> > 
> > Gaëtan
> > 
> 
> Il y a des infos qui m’inquiètent: j'ai une HP LaserJet Pro MFP M28a.
> Pas de problème pour l'impression. En revanche, dans ce tableau, il est
> spécifié que le scanner est supporté depuis la version 3.18.4 de hplip,
> et chez moi, pas de scan possible, toujours en erreur, pourtant avec la
> version 3.18.12.
> 

Si tu es en tsting ou sid vérifie que tu es bien à jour car il y a eu un
problème de dépendance récemment qui empêchait le scan sur les multifonction
HP.

Gaëtan


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Re: Fstab

[Cesar Gimenes]

Use nofail nos parâmetros, exemplo:

UUID=X   /mnt/algumlugar  ext4  defaults,auto,users,rw,nofail 0 0

Obviamente mudando o UUID da mídia, o ponto de montagem e o sistema
arquivos.


Abraços!

—
Cesar
https://crg.eti.br


Em qui, 11 de jun de 2020 às 09:04, Paulo  escreveu:

> Pessoal,
>
> Não tem como mudar o Fstab para não dar um erro crítico de quando não tem
> um HD Adicional (Não sendo o de boot é claro).
>
> Se tem o disco de boot a máquina deveria iniciar sem dar erro crítico e só
> não montar o(s) HD(s) Adicional(is), me parece algo simples e até lógico.
>
> De onde vem esta trava, do Kernel?
>
> Pergunto isto pois estou pensando em pedir a alteração deste
> comportamento, então preciso saber a quem pedir.
>
>
> Att,
>
>
> Paulo Correia
>
>
> Linkedin: http://br.linkedin.com/pub/paulo-correia/30/73a/604
>
> GitHub: https://github.com/paulo-correia
>
-- 
Cesar Gimenes
https://crg.eti.br

Re: Fstab

[Helio Loureiro]

man 5 fstab

./helio

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 14:04 Paulo  wrote:

> Pessoal,
>
> Não tem como mudar o Fstab para não dar um erro crítico de quando não tem
> um HD Adicional (Não sendo o de boot é claro).
>
> Se tem o disco de boot a máquina deveria iniciar sem dar erro crítico e só
> não montar o(s) HD(s) Adicional(is), me parece algo simples e até lógico.
>
> De onde vem esta trava, do Kernel?
>
> Pergunto isto pois estou pensando em pedir a alteração deste
> comportamento, então preciso saber a quem pedir.
>
>
> Att,
>
>
> Paulo Correia
>
>
> Linkedin: http://br.linkedin.com/pub/paulo-correia/30/73a/604
>
> GitHub: https://github.com/paulo-correia
>

Re: Uptime

[Helio Loureiro]

Olha no código fonte que tem uma discussão sobre como é medido.  Inclusive
sobre questão do swap entrar ou não na conta do load average.

./helio

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 13:42 Paulo  wrote:

> Pessoal,
>
> Alguem tem alguma documentação que explique melhor como é medido o Uptime.
>
> Pois parece que é uma ciência de foguetes, rss
>
> Att,
>
> Paulo Correia
>
> Linkedin: http://br.linkedin.com/pub/paulo-correia/30/73a/604
>
> GitHub: https://github.com/paulo-correia
>

Re: Investigating internals of Debian packages

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 02:21:50PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> On 11.06.20 13:03, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection".
> > I want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop environment"
> > and/or "MATE" is checked.
> > TIA
> 
> The for me most important observation is, that if deactivating all listed
> desktop environments and only keeping activated the initial listed entry
> "Debian desktop environment", then a full-fledged GMOME desktop will be
> installed.

Actually, it depends on which installer image was used.  The "Debian
desktop environment" setting picks *a* desktop environment, but doesn't
tell you which one it will be.  If you use a standard netinst-* or
firmware-* or dvd-1-* installer image, it will be GNOME 3.  If you use
one of the various Live images, however, it could be something else.

Re: Investigating internals of Debian packages

[Brian]

On Thu 11 Jun 2020 at 06:03:28 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection".
> I want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop environment"
> and/or "MATE" is checked.
> TIA

Checking "Debian desktop environment" alone gets you the task-desktop
package. From

  apt show task-desktop

we see

  Recommends: task-gnome-desktop | task-xfce-desktop | ...

This means that task-gnome-desktop is installed. In other words you get
Gnome as a desktop.

Checking "MATE" alone gets you the task-mate-desktop package. From

  apt show task-mate-desktop

we see

  Depends: tasksel (= 3.53), task-desktop, ...

task-desktop is installed and its Recommends: is fulfilled by the
ask-mate-desktop package. You get MATE.

Checking "Debian desktop environment" and "MATE" is the same as checking
"MATE" alone.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Investigating internals of Debian packages

[Marco Möller]

On 11.06.20 13:03, Richard Owlett wrote:

I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection".
I want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop environment" 
and/or "MATE" is checked.

TIA



The for me most important observation is, that if deactivating all 
listed desktop environments and only keeping activated the initial 
listed entry "Debian desktop environment", then a full-fledged GMOME 
desktop will be installed.

Marco.

Re: [OT] How to help the OP? (was: How long will this take?)

[Nicolas George]

Michael Stone (12020-06-11):
> I wasn't referring to that statement, I was referring to several other
> emails which were apparently being justified by that statement.

I have not seen anything like this. Do you have references?

> So the rest of your strawman is, I guess, irrelevant.

You could have made your statement more explicit.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Fstab

[Paulo]

Pessoal,

Não tem como mudar o Fstab para não dar um erro crítico de quando não 
tem um HD Adicional (Não sendo o de boot é claro).


Se tem o disco de boot a máquina deveria iniciar sem dar erro crítico e 
só não montar o(s) HD(s) Adicional(is), me parece algo simples e até lógico.


De onde vem esta trava, do Kernel?

Pergunto isto pois estou pensando em pedir a alteração deste 
comportamento, então preciso saber a quem pedir.



Att,


Paulo Correia


Linkedin: http://br.linkedin.com/pub/paulo-correia/30/73a/604 



GitHub: https://github.com/paulo-correia

Re: [OT] How to help the OP? (was: How long will this take?)

[Michael Stone]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:58:39AM +0200, deloptes wrote:

There is nothing unpolite in the mentioned statement: "There is no dilemma
at all: we are not paid help-desk technicians."


I wasn't referring to that statement, I was referring to several other 
emails which were apparently being justified by that statement. So the 
rest of your strawman is, I guess, irrelevant.

Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[NoSpam]

Bonjour

Le 11/06/2020 à 13:01, benoit a écrit :


Pourquoi, pour un usage personnel, privilégier une imprimante laser 
par rapport aux jets d'encre? Leur toner coûte cher, ça consomme de 
l’électricité (par définition une imprimante laser contient un four).




Bonjour,

Je recherche aussi à remplacer mon imprimante laser HS.
Pour un usage non régulier, si on reste plus d'un mois sans s'en 
servir une cartouche d'encre sèche.

Une laser ne pause jamais ce problème.
Quant à sa consommation, si c'est juste le temps de la démarrer et 
d'imprimer et d'autre part, il en existe maintenant sur le même 
principe que les lasers, mais à led ...

Qui en a une ? C'est bien ?

Le seul souci c'est le vieillissement de l’imprimante en elle même qui 
a rendu l'âme après une quinzaine d'années de bons et loyaux services. 
Probablement à cause du vieillissement des partie en caoutchouc.


Ici c'est une SAMSUNG XpressM2070W (Pas a led) tout le temps branchée et 
très très souvent en veille. Rien à redire, tout fonctionne.


--

Daniel

Uptime

[Paulo]

Pessoal,

Alguem tem alguma documentação que explique melhor como é medido o Uptime.

Pois parece que é uma ciência de foguetes, rss

Att,

Paulo Correia

Linkedin: http://br.linkedin.com/pub/paulo-correia/30/73a/604 



GitHub: https://github.com/paulo-correia

Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster

[Virgo Pärna]

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 14:10:45 -0600, D. R. Evans  wrote:
> For example:
>   if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one,
> even though both characters are present in the text
>   if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two
> "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it
> displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters
>

What happens, if you change the default composition font. Sounds
like those are rendered as ligatures. I'm using Windows, but when I set
monospace font to Cascadia code, I started getting similar issues.

-- 
Virgo Pärna 
virgo.pa...@mail.ee

Re: Investigating internals of Debian packages

[The Wanderer]

On 2020-06-11 at 07:03, Richard Owlett wrote:

> I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection". I
> want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop
> environment" and/or "MATE" is checked.

If you want to know the specific sequence of coded actions, you'll have
to look at the source of that menu, which I expect is part of
debian-installer. (And possibly follow up from there to look in other
places, depending on what that source shows.)

If you just want to know more generally, look at the output of the
following:

$ apt-cache search ^task-

As I understand matters, the things which can be selected for
installation during the Debian installer bootstrap process are called
"tasks", and every single one has a corresponding package whose name
begins with 'task-'. The descriptions of those packages match (and are
probably the origin of) the entries in that menu.

These packages then depend on a selection of other packages, which
actually contain the files necessary to provide the thing selected. As
far as I know, these task-* packages don't contain any files of their
own, other than a single file each under /usr/share/doc/.

In particular, "Debian desktop environment" corresponds to the package
'task-desktop', and "MATE" corresponds to the package
'task-mate-desktop'.

The step-by-step actions which happen to get each selected package and
its dependencies installed (including such details as whether Recommends
are treated as important, and whether something is done to cause the
depended-on packages to be marked as manually installed) I do not know;
if I wanted to find out, then as above, I'd have to investigate
debian-installer itself.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Investigating internals of Debian packages

[Richard Owlett]

I'm interested in the installer  menu titled "Software Selection".
I want to know explicitly what happens when "Debian desktop environment" 
and/or "MATE" is checked.

TIA

Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[benoit]

> Pourquoi, pour un usage personnel, privilégier une imprimante laser par 
> rapport aux jets d'encre? Leur toner coûte cher, ça consomme de l’électricité 
> (par définition une imprimante laser contient un four).

Bonjour,

Je recherche aussi à remplacer mon imprimante laser HS.
Pour un usage non régulier, si on reste plus d'un mois sans s'en servir une 
cartouche d'encre sèche.
Une laser ne pause jamais ce problème.
Quant à sa consommation, si c'est juste le temps de la démarrer et d'imprimer 
et d'autre part, il en existe maintenant sur le même principe que les lasers, 
mais à led ...
Qui en a une ? C'est bien ?

Le seul souci c'est le vieillissement de l’imprimante en elle même qui a rendu 
l'âme après une quinzaine d'années de bons et loyaux services. Probablement à 
cause du vieillissement des partie en caoutchouc.

--
Benoit

Re: [OT] How to help the OP? (was: How long will this take?)

[tomas]

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:58:39AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> >> Now the superior moral leftists came here to judge what is polite and
> >> what
> > ^^^
> > 
> > Again, your idea of polite differs from mine by a wide margin.
> 
> With all respect to you tomas this is perfectly OK. Deviations should be
> acceptable both right and left,

agreed

>  however I see more often finger pointing
> from the left

you ever stopped to consider how much of that is due to your own
perspective?

>and what actually bothers me most is that some people think
> they are on this earth to judge over others.
> 
> There is nothing unpolite in the mentioned statement: "There is no dilemma
> at all: we are not paid help-desk technicians."

You changed the topic mid-flight: that's not the things I quoted from you:
"superior moral leftists" is heavy artillery, in my eyes.

> I simply refuse to accept this attempt of censoring - it is gone too far (by
> wide margin).

You can have all the free speech you want; by the same token I am free to
say that I sometimes perceive your way to interact as rude. Plus, I am
free to choose the point where I'm fed up and quit, what I am doing now.

This thread ends for me here.

-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: [OT] How to help the OP? (was: How long will this take?)

[deloptes]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

>> Now the superior moral leftists came here to judge what is polite and
>> what
> ^^^
> 
> Again, your idea of polite differs from mine by a wide margin.

With all respect to you tomas this is perfectly OK. Deviations should be
acceptable both right and left, however I see more often finger pointing
from the left and what actually bothers me most is that some people think
they are on this earth to judge over others.

There is nothing unpolite in the mentioned statement: "There is no dilemma
at all: we are not paid help-desk technicians."

This is simple truth. There is a big problem in the way it is being
criticized and the critics accepted and/or tolerated. The main problem I
see is that people do not care how language works, insufficient funding of
schools etc. Simply listen at Jordan Peterson. 

I simply refuse to accept this attempt of censoring - it is gone too far (by
wide margin).

Re: Unable to boot new buster installation

[Dominique Dumont]

On mercredi 10 juin 2020 19:53:53 CEST Gary L. Roach wrote:
> The sequence of events on boot up are Bios screen, Debian Window with OS
> selection, Boot up sequence, login/password ( Xorg not running), startx
> -> error window. So to answer your question, the message is after
> login/password.

Right.. Looks like there's no display manager installed. Depending on your 
favorite environment, could you install one of sddm, lxdm or gdm ?

On my side, I used sddm.

> Question: Where is the file that contains the display setup (ie refresh
> rate, resolution.) 

This can be set in /etc/X11/xorg.conf in some cases (e.g. for nvidia 
hardware). Now, most of the required information is retrieved from hardware by 
Xorg. xorg.conf can usually be removed (except with nvidia driver).

> Where would randr get its information if Xorg was
> running?

>From Xorg process.

> I would have responded sooner but have been hit with a severe case of
> Vertigo.

No problem.

All the best

Dod

Re: Zoom et debian buster

[Frederic Zulian]

Ben,  on est un peu HS pour une liste Debian mais pour te  répondre :
Je me connecte sur   https://us04web.zoom.us/signin et ensuite le choisi
"Programmer une réunion" ou "se joindre à une réunion".

Frédéric ZULIAN
--
Pour la santé de votre ordinateur, préférez les logiciels libres.
https://www.april.org/
Frédéric ZULIAN

Le jeu. 11 juin 2020 à 01:24, Gaëtan Perrier  a
écrit :

> Le mardi 09 juin 2020 à 17:33 +0200, Frederic Zulian a écrit :
> >
> > Il y a toujours la possibilité d'utiliser Zoom en ligne sans l'installer.
>
> Ah bon ?
>
> Quand j'ai voulu m'en servir il me redirigeait systématiquement vers la
> page de
> téléchargement de l'appli.
>
> Gaëtan
>

[Evolution et nouveau coup de gueule contre systemd] : Effacer les fichiers qui ne sont contenus dans aucun paquet

[BERTRAND Joël]

Sébastien Dinot a écrit :
> BERTRAND Joël a écrit :
>> Existe-t-il un moyen d'effacer tous les fichiers d'un répertoire qui
>> ne sont pas dans l'un des paquets installé sur le système (autre que
>> l'algo trivial qui doit être en n² consistant à chercher pour tous les
>> fichiers du répertoire s'ils apparaissent dans l'une des sorties de
>> dpkg-query -L xx) ?
> 
> Cela me semble très délicat car des fichiers ou des liens symboliques
> peuvent ne pas être fournis par les paquets, mais bel et bien créés par
> eux lors de l'installation.
> 
> J'ai trouvé la commande élégante et efficace pour identifier tous les
> paquets non fournis par les paquets sur Stack Exchange :
> 
> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/153260/how-to-find-files-that-are-not-owned-by-any-package
> 
> La commande est :
> 
> comm -23 <(find / -xdev -type f | sort) <(sort -u /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list)
> 
> Mais cette liste constitue une base de travail brute, qu'il faut
> minutieusement affiner. Par exemple, il faut en exclure tout ce qui est
> dans /home et dans d'autres répertoires tels que /usr/lib, /var/log,
> voire /var, etc.
> 
> Sébastien
> 

Merci à tous, je vais regarder ça.

Néanmoins, il y a un problème connexe qui pourrait éviter de faire ce
que j'ai fait à la hussarde (recopier /bin /sbin et les libs d'une
installation fraîche puis certaines bibliothèques...). Pourquoi n'y
a-t-il pas dans une installation Debian la même chose que dans NetBSD
par exemple ? Lors des débuts de Linux, c'était compréhensible, les
disques n'était pas énormes. Aujourd'hui, ça l'est nettement moins.

legendre:[/rescue] > ls -al
total 2409644
drwxr-xr-x2 root  wheel 3072 May 23 17:31 .
drwxr-xr-x   25 root  wheel 1024 May 24 23:57 ..
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 [
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 atactl
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 badsect
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 brconfig
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 bunzip2
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 bzcat
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 bzip2
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 cat
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 ccdconfig
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 cgdconfig
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 chgrp
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 chio
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 chmod
...
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 tetris
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 ttyflags
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 tunefs
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 umbctl
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 umount
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 veriexecctl
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 vi
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 vnconfig
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 vndconfig
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 wdogctl
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 wsconsctl
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 zcat
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 zegrep
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 zfgrep
-r-xr-xr-x  155 root  wheel  7811464 May 23 17:16 zgrep
legendre:[/rescue] > du -hs
20M .
legendre:[/rescue] >

Tous les utilitaires critiques sont naturellement dans /bin et /sbin,
mais sont aussi compilés statiquement dans /rescue (façon busybox, le
même programme (presque toujours) avec des liens hard, la détection de
la fonction étant faite par argc dans le code). Ces fichiers ne sont pas
effaçables directement par root (un rm -f demande explicitement si on
est d'accord parce les droits sont r-x). Même en cas de destruction
d'une partie de la racine par un script foireux, on peut toujours
redémarrer le NetBSD en passant /rescue/sh comme init et même tourner
quasiment normalement avec un lien de /bin et /sbin sur /rescue. C'est
vraiment très pratique.

Le problème qui ma posé le plus de souci n'est pas le contenu de /bin
ou /sbin, il n'y a pas tant de bibliothèques que cela, mais un truc
aussi bête que apt (pour forcer la réinstallation des paquets). Parce
que apt est lié avec un tas de bibliothèques qui en utilise à son tour
d'autres. J'ai dû bricoler avant d'obtenir un apt qui fasse autre chose
qu'un segfault.

Sinon, autre bug de systemd (vous allez dire que je n'aime pas l'outil,
certes, mais je l'aime de moins ne moins à mesure que le temps passe)
sur lequel j'ai passé quelques heures hier.

bertrand@rayleigh:~$ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
ATTR{address}=="50:46:5d:72:ef:a2", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0",
ATTR{type}=="1", KERNEL=="eno*", NAME="eth0"
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*",
ATTR{address}=="00:08:02:af:da:70", ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0",
ATTR{type}=="1", 

Re: À la recherche d'une imprimante laser multifonction N

[Michel]

Le 11/06/2020 à 01:20, Gaëtan Perrier a écrit :
> Le mercredi 10 juin 2020 à 08:07 +0200, Pierre Malard a écrit :
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Oui, bof !
>> Effectivement une imprimante laser coûte plus tant en électricité que achat.
>> Cependant …
>>
>> À l’usage, n’utilisant l’impression que très occasionnellement, ce de plus en
>> plus, mais en en ayant toujours besoin dans ces cas, je me suis rendu compte
>> que :
>> - À chaque fois les buses de ma jet d’encre était encrassées
>> - Si l’imprimante est prévue pour « laver » ses buses régulièrement … les
>> réservoirs étaient vides…
>> Du coup je suis obligé de racheter à chaque fois des cartouches sans les
>> avoir réellement utilisées quand ce n’est pas carrément l’imprimante si tout
>> ça est complètement collé… De plus l’équilibre des couleurs et le mouillage
>> du papier n’est pas au plus top même avec HP.
>>
>> Il y a 3 ans j’ai fini par acheter une imprimante laser couleur
>> multifonctions HP et j’en suis très content.
>> Je m’en sert pour imprimer une fois tous les 6 mois en moyenne, je n’ai plus
>> de problèmes de cartouche vide ni collée, les couleurs sont de bien meilleure
>> qualité, le papier n’est plus gondolé.
>>
>> Finalement, tout ça me coûte bien moins cher que mes imprimantes jet d’encre.
>>
> 
> 
> Je suis assez d'accord avec toi. Perso avec une HP Envy 7640 je l'allume
> systématiquement quand j'allume l'ordi même si je ne dois pas m'en servir. De
> cette manière je n'ai plus de problème de cartouche qui sèche. Mais ça 
> consomme
> de l'électricité en permanence (je ne sais pas combien). Avec une laser je
> consommerai certes plus lors des impressions mais le reste du temps je 
> pourrais
> la laisser éteinte sans me poser de question.
> Au final je pense que ma prochaine multifonction sera laser et très
> probablement une HP pour le suivi des pilotes dans le temps.
> Toutes les imprimantes supportées sont listées ici:
> https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index
> 
> Gaëtan
> 

Il y a des infos qui m’inquiètent: j'ai une HP LaserJet Pro MFP M28a.
Pas de problème pour l'impression. En revanche, dans ce tableau, il est
spécifié que le scanner est supporté depuis la version 3.18.4 de hplip,
et chez moi, pas de scan possible, toujours en erreur, pourtant avec la
version 3.18.12.

Re: Re : Paquet multipath-tools (0.7.9-3)

[l0f4r0]

Bonjour,

11 juin 2020 à 00:45 de k6dedi...@free.fr:

> Dans le paquet multipath-tools_0.7.9-3.debian.tar.xz que j'ai téléchargé
> Je n'ai pas trouvé de README.Debian
>
Ok donc t'as choisi de télécharger sans installer pour le moment.

Dans ce cas là, après extraction, tu devrais voir un fichier 
usr/share/doc/multipath-tools/README.Debian.gz. Il s'agit de ton fichier mais 
compressé via gunzip.

Soit tu le décompresses ("gunzip -d 
usr/share/doc/multipath-tools/README.Debian.gz") puis tu lis le fichier 
résultant avec ton éditeur texte favori, soit t'utilises une commande hybride 
qui fait le boulot pour toi à la volée (sans créer de nouveau fichier) type 
"zless usr/share/doc/multipath-tools/README.Debian.gz" que j'évoquais.
Bien cordialement,
l0f4r0

Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster

[l0f4r0]

Hi,

11 juin 2020 à 02:56 de f...@blakemfg.com:

> On 6/10/20 1:10 PM, D. R. Evans wrote:
>
>> As far as I can tell, no one else using other OSes seems to be having this
>> problem, so maybe it's a Thunderbird-on-buster issue that needs to be 
>> reported
>> somewhere. Or maybe it's just my system for some obscure reason
>>
Here Thunderbird 68.8.0 (64bits) on Xfce Buster (kernel 5.4.8-1~bpo10+1): no 
issue from my side.

Best regards,
l0f4r0

Re: OT - Gimp-plugin-registry en Debian 11

[Camaleón]

El 2020-06-10 a las 22:43 +0100, José Manuel (Abogado) escribió:

> He instalado en Debian bullseye:
> # apt install gimp-plugin-registry
> lo compruebo y me aparece
> # apt install gimp-plugin-registry
> Leyendo lista de paquetes... Hecho
> Creando árbol de dependencias
> Leyendo la información de estado... Hecho
> gimp-plugin-registry ya está en su versión más reciente (9.20180625+nmu1).
> 0 actualizados, 0 nuevos se instalarán, 0 para eliminar y 0 no actualizados.
> 
> Me indica que esta instalado, pero en Gimp /filtros/realzar/  no aparece

(...)

¿Y qué filtro buscas, exactamente?

El paquete que has instalado es una especie de recopilatorio de 
extensiones de todo tipo (filtros, complementos y scripts) para The Gimp, 
por lo que cada uno aparecerá dentro de su sección correspondiente.
 
Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón