Re: [Off-topic] When in Rome...

[deloptes]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> FWIW, I did, once, for a couple of days. With a fully loaded bicycle,
> (after riding ~2000Km to get there, but that's another story).
> 
> I must admit that I was a bit scared. Turned out to be *extremely*
> relaxed, much more so than other cities I was used to. My guess is
> that the other drivers perceived us as a kind of strange-looking and
> *very* slow Vespa. More predictable, and thus easy to deal with :)
> 

Bicycle in Rome?! Not good for the lungs anyway. I've been driving a lot in
Italy. It is a good example for relative perseption of reality. To
understand what I mean go drive a car in Egypt. Compared Egypt to Rome is
like comparing Rome to Berlin or Hamburg.

> Back to topic (or well: pop the topic stack): to halfway function
> you'll need the assumption that not everyone is out to kill you.
> Everything else goes as pathological disorder, for a reason.
> 
> Of course, taking precautions that not everyone will manage not
> (unintentionally) killing you may prolong your life span.

This also shows how important the context of such ideas is. In some
countries you can not just walk wherever and whenever you want. So in such
a case you make precautions that will help you come home alive at the end.

[Off-topic] When in Rome...

[tomas]

On Sat, May 01, 2021 at 04:40:30PM +0100, Joe wrote:

[...]

> Exactly so. You don't *know* that all the other drivers on the roads
> with you are lunatics, but you try to drive so that it doesn't matter
> too much if they are (disclaimer: I've never tried driving in Rome).

FWIW, I did, once, for a couple of days. With a fully loaded bicycle,
(after riding ~2000Km to get there, but that's another story).

I must admit that I was a bit scared. Turned out to be *extremely*
relaxed, much more so than other cities I was used to. My guess is
that the other drivers perceived us as a kind of strange-looking and
*very* slow Vespa. More predictable, and thus easy to deal with :)

Back to topic (or well: pop the topic stack): to halfway function
you'll need the assumption that not everyone is out to kill you.
Everything else goes as pathological disorder, for a reason.

Of course, taking precautions that not everyone will manage not
(unintentionally) killing you may prolong your life span.

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[Joe]

On Sat, 01 May 2021 12:00:30 +0200
deloptes  wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> 
> > There is nothing 'religious' about assuming that many private
> > businesses will take every opportunity to make money from you in
> > ways that you would not permit if you were given the choice. What
> > is the purpose of 'free' social media, after all? What about the
> > written guarantee cards provided with products since the early
> > twentieth century, to be returned to obtain some small additional
> > benefit? What were they if not the gathering of low-level
> > purchasing information to assist future marketing? We *know* that's
> > the kind of thing businesses do. We should expect them to use all
> > possibly technological assistance to do it more and better. And we
> > can certainly expect our rulers to spy on us whenever possible.  
> 
> Assumption is not evidence, but if you are intelligent enough, you
> would take precautions to make this assumption obsolete. It means you
> still do not know if this is true or not, but you take measures in
> case it is true.

Exactly so. You don't *know* that all the other drivers on the roads
with you are lunatics, but you try to drive so that it doesn't matter
too much if they are (disclaimer: I've never tried driving in Rome).
It's not sane to take precautions against events which cannot possibly
happen, but there are very few of those nowadays.
> 
> For me personally I know for sure that I will never get a TV or one
> of the normal smart phones. Even with linux and whatever kind of
> precautions you never trust that.

-- 
Joe

Re: Debian statistics about the contributing entities?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, May 01, 2021 at 02:57:28PM +0200, Marco Möller wrote:
> Hello,
> Do we have for Debian some statistics about who (companies, institutions,
> universities, private volunteers, ...) are contributing to Debian, i.e. as
> package maintainers, admins, maybe Debian specific code programmers, and
> alike? I found the list of the Debian Developers, but this is only names not
> indicating which company (money) might be behind the names. Maybe this is
> summarized in a statistics about funding or sponsoring or supporters of the
> Debian project?
> I recently saw statistics about who contributes to the Linux kernel (private
> volunteers summarized as a group vs the 20 most lines of code contributing
> companies by their name), which kind of shows its independence (or not) from
> singular commercial players and am now curious if there is some alike data
> about Debian available.
> Thanks! Marco.
> 
Debian is primarily a community project made up of volunteers. Some of us
are in full time employment but there's a huge range of contributors and
a wider range of users.

Debian is, effectively, a non-profit organisation. We're associated with
the US Software in the Public Interest umbrella organisation that manages
funds for many different projects: we also have generous sponsorship in
hardware, money or services from various organisations especially for
the annual Debian conference [DebConf] and several mini conferences
[MiniConf].

Not sure we can break down who is who other than the fact that there
are nominally 1018 Debian developers eligible to vote and lots more
Debian maintainers.

This may not be much help to you, but it's a start :)

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Since iOS 14.5 upgrade problem with Samba Share (no photo upload possible anymore)

[Daniel Schröter]

Hello,

since iOS upgrade to 14.5 last week I can not upload my photos to my samba 
share (Debian/unstable) anymore.

I tried to increase logging and took a look to wireshark already but didn't 
found the issue.

Anyone else has a problem with Samba since upgrade to iOS 14.5?

Thanks!

Bye

Re: Debian statistics about the contributing entities?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 01 May 2021 08:57:28 Marco Möller wrote:

> Hello,
> Do we have for Debian some statistics about who (companies,
> institutions, universities, private volunteers, ...) are contributing
> to Debian, i.e. as package maintainers, admins, maybe Debian specific
> code programmers, and alike? I found the list of the Debian
> Developers, but this is only names not indicating which company
> (money) might be behind the names. Maybe this is summarized in a
> statistics about funding or sponsoring or supporters of the Debian
> project?
> I recently saw statistics about who contributes to the Linux kernel
> (private volunteers summarized as a group vs the 20 most lines of code
> contributing companies by their name), which kind of shows its
> independence (or not) from singular commercial players and am now
> curious if there is some alike data about Debian available.
> Thanks! Marco.

Since RH went to a per seat fee for support, which it seems has been 
succesful at funding RH, and "tainted" the free software scene, the rest 
of the distro's have clammed up about financing, and TBT, I don't think 
its any of our business to even ask the question.

That said, if the 2 "projects" I use the most of, debian being one of 
them, do have to pass the hat or disappear, it doesn't bither me a bot 
to setup an annual support fee payable to whoever writes the checks for 
debian to keep the lights on.

Basically, those who use it, should support it, including monetarily if 
asked. Unforch international law variations makes that much more legally 
difficult than it should. Until I see the hat coming my way, its none of 
my business.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

combined cpu frequency stats with 2 policies in place

[Tuxo]

Hi list

My octa core cpu does offer 2 frequency governors:

cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/affected_cpus
0 1 2 3

cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy4/affected_cpus
4 5 6 7

cpufreq-info --stats --human does only display policy 0 as summary, if I 
want to see policy4 summary I need to ask for it with:


cpufreq-info --stats --human --cpu 4

Adding more than one --cpu argument is not allowed.

How can I combine both of them or is this not possible?

Debian statistics about the contributing entities?

[Marco Möller]

Hello,
Do we have for Debian some statistics about who (companies, 
institutions, universities, private volunteers, ...) are contributing to 
Debian, i.e. as package maintainers, admins, maybe Debian specific code 
programmers, and alike? I found the list of the Debian Developers, but 
this is only names not indicating which company (money) might be behind 
the names. Maybe this is summarized in a statistics about funding or 
sponsoring or supporters of the Debian project?
I recently saw statistics about who contributes to the Linux kernel 
(private volunteers summarized as a group vs the 20 most lines of code 
contributing companies by their name), which kind of shows its 
independence (or not) from singular commercial players and am now 
curious if there is some alike data about Debian available.

Thanks! Marco.

Re: debian-user list info and guidelines (FAQ) - posted monthly

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, May 01, 2021 at 03:17:39AM -0700, Weaver wrote:
> On 01-05-2021 20:07, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
> > and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 
> > 
> > Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:
> > 
> > * The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
> >   lists that are language-specific for example debian-user-french 
> > 
> > * It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists - for 
> > example,
> >   from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
> >   English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.
> > 
> > * The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
> >   the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of 
> > Conduct
> > 
> >  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
> >  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
> > 
> > * This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
> >   answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
> >   others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
> >   may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.
> > 
> > * Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
> >   It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
> > 
> >  * Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
> >welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
> >do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; don't
> >assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
> >Debian list.
> > 
> > * There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on 
> > this
> >   list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
> > 
> > * One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time 
> > is of
> >   the form: 
> >   "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
> >Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"
> >   
> > Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived,
> > potentially cached
> > by Google and so on. Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to
> > ensure that
> > all copies anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may
> > only serve to
> > draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
> > 
> 
> `This is a fairly busy mailing list' - Oh no, it isn't!
> It used to be.

Absolutely: however, if you look at the Debian mailing lists as a whole, this
is one of the busier lists - hey, we can get up to four pages worth in the 
debian-user web interface.

> I can recall days when I'd get 300 mails or more, but that was when the
> attitude was it was a list for Debian users, and not just a list for
> Debian issues.

It's still a list for Debian users: not as many people use or appreciate
mailing lists as they did but, actually, they still work well - not least
because there's a searchable archive.

> At times, there would be 70% of threads on topic, while the rest were
> wildly off, but there's one aspect everybody seems to have forgotten:
> conversation/communication builds community.

Agreed. There are days when it feels as if there are only ten people here
but we are here for wider conversation and chat. Comparing this with some
of the language-specific Debian lists, it's still fairly active.

> And this list is somewhat dry on that quality these days.
> I think we can attribute the list drying up like a river in drought to
> that.
> Perhaps the prissy and politically correct simply don't have it right?
> Cheers!

Prissy/politically correct - no, I'm not sure that's right. That's one of
the reasons we do have a Debian Code of Conduct - so there's a minimum
acceptable standard on the lists and so that folk can feel welcome.
If you try to categorise Debian developers or users, you very rapidly come
across category breakers or a breadth of people you can scarcely guess at.
Debian as the universal operating system: priorities free software and our 
users - yes, but there's a space for all sorts of people behind the keyboards
and mail interface.

All best, as ever,

Andy Cater
> 
> Harry.
> -- 
> `Women fall in love with what they hear,
> men fall in love with what they see,
> that's why women wear make up and men lie'.
> 

Re: debian-user list info and guidelines (FAQ) - posted monthly

[Weaver]

On 01-05-2021 20:07, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
> and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 
> 
> Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:
> 
> * The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
>   lists that are language-specific for example debian-user-french 
> 
> * It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists - for example,
>   from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
>   English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.
> 
> * The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
>   the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct
> 
>  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
>  https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
> 
> * This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
>   answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
>   others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
>   may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.
> 
> * Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
>   It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.
> 
>  * Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
>welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
>do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; don't
>assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
>Debian list.
> 
> * There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
>   list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
> 
> * One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time is 
> of
>   the form: 
>   "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
>Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"
>   
> Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived,
> potentially cached
> by Google and so on. Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to
> ensure that
> all copies anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may
> only serve to
> draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect"
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
> 
> Problems?
> =
> 
> Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
> Debian Community Team .
> 
> Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
> behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

`This is a fairly busy mailing list' - Oh no, it isn't!
It used to be.
I can recall days when I'd get 300 mails or more, but that was when the
attitude was it was a list for Debian users, and not just a list for
Debian issues.
At times, there would be 70% of threads on topic, while the rest were
wildly off, but there's one aspect everybody seems to have forgotten:
conversation/communication builds community.
And this list is somewhat dry on that quality these days.
I think we can attribute the list drying up like a river in drought to
that.
Perhaps the prissy and politically correct simply don't have it right?
Cheers!

Harry.
-- 
`Women fall in love with what they hear,
men fall in love with what they see,
that's why women wear make up and men lie'.

debian-user list info and guidelines (FAQ) - posted monthly

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

debian-user is a mailing list provided for support for Debian users,
and to facilitate discussion on relevant topics. 

Some guidelines which may help explain how the list works:

* The language on this mailing list is English. There may be other mailing 
  lists that are language-specific for example debian-user-french 

* It is common for users to be redirected here from other lists - for example,
  from debian-project. It is also common for people to be posting here when 
  English is not their primary language. Please be considerate.

* The list is a Debian communication forum. As such, it is subject to both 
  the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct

 https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
 https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

* This is a fairly busy mailing list and you may have to wait for an
  answer - please be patient. Please post answers back to the list so
  others can benefit; private conversations don't benefit people who
  may be following along on the list or reading the archives later.

* Help and advice on this list is provided by volunteers in their own time.
  It is common for there to be different opinions or answers provided.

 * Please try to stay on topic. Arguments for the sake of it are not
   welcome here. Partisan political / religious / cultural arguments
   do not belong here either. Debian's community is world wide; don't
   assume others will agree with your views or need to read them on a
   Debian list.

* There is an FAQ on the Debian wiki derived from some questions asked on this
  list at https://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

* One question that comes up on almost all Debian lists from time to time is of
  the form: 
  "I have done something wrong / included personal details in an email.
   Could you please delete my name / details / remove the mail"
  
Practically, this is impossible: the mailing lists are archived, potentially 
cached
by Google and so on. Unfortunately, there is nothing much we can do to ensure 
that
all copies anywhere on the Internet are deleted. Asking to do this may only 
serve to
draw further attention - the so-called "Streisand effect" 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Problems?
=

Complaints about inappropriate behaviour should be referred to the
Debian Community Team .

Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad
behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders.

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[deloptes]

Joe wrote:

> There is nothing 'religious' about assuming that many private businesses
> will take every opportunity to make money from you in ways that you
> would not permit if you were given the choice. What is the purpose of
> 'free' social media, after all? What about the written guarantee cards
> provided with products since the early twentieth century, to be
> returned to obtain some small additional benefit? What were they if not
> the gathering of low-level purchasing information to assist future
> marketing? We *know* that's the kind of thing businesses do. We should
> expect them to use all possibly technological assistance to do it more
> and better. And we can certainly expect our rulers to spy on us
> whenever possible.

Assumption is not evidence, but if you are intelligent enough, you would
take precautions to make this assumption obsolete. It means you still do
not know if this is true or not, but you take measures in case it is true.

For me personally I know for sure that I will never get a TV or one of the
normal smart phones. Even with linux and whatever kind of precautions you
never trust that.

Re: Google vs. DDG

[mick crane]

On 2021-04-28 20:49, davidson wrote:

On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 mick crane wrote:


I think Google tailors results according to what they know about you.
Even if you reset the router to a new IP and clear all the cookies 
they still seem to know. I've wondered if the browser has an 
identifying number.


Supplementing the observations made here by others, I suggest this
introductory reference on the topic:

 https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/about

  Cover Your Tracks is two things: a tool for users to understand how
  unique and identifiable their browser makes them online, and a
  research project to uncover the tools and techniques of online
  trackers and test the efficacy of privacy add-ons. Running tests on
  Cover Your Tracks gives you information about your own browser’s
  privacy protections, and also helps EFF use statistical methods to
  evaluate the capabilities of third-party trackers and the best forms
  of protection against them.


checking that website with windows and chrome canary says unique out of 
136 thousand.
booting Buster on same machine and firefox esr that website says 2 out 
of 136 thousand which indicates very likely the browser isn't sending 
any identifier.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[Weaver]

On 01-05-2021 18:19, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 01 May 2021 09:28:04 +0200
> deloptes  wrote:
> 
>> Joe wrote:
>>
>> > I know someone who started to be shown online adverts that could
>> > only have been based on a sound-wave conversation within the
>> > hearing of his smartphone. I don't know about other similar claims,
>> > but I trust his.
>> >
>> > Are you saying that you don't believe anyone could be that naughty?
>> > Go look up 'superfish' and 'lenovo' if you're not aware of the
>> > incident, and that was years ago. I don't believe that advertisers
>> > consider any kind of non-lethal behaviour to be unethical.
>>
>> People can state anything, but it is not necessary true.
>>
>> However if you have enabled some kind of assistant like Alexa, Siri or
>> whatever they are called, it could be that they are indeed spying on
>> you. Again to make such a statement means you need to provide
>> evidence.
>>
>> Some state their brainwaves are being influenced by whatever (video,
>> tv, wireless) It could be true, but there is no evidence and the
>> probability of this being true is very low.
> 
> At the moment, yes. But there are regular announcements of brain wave
> measurements being used by e.g. disabled people to allow some control
> of things. Do you doubt for a moment that researchers around the world
> are studying brain waves with a view to at least surveillance of
> thoughts, if not control, of for weaponry?
>>
>> I am writing this and asking you to start checking facts and stop
>> believing.
>>
> 
> Facts have become extremely difficult to come by. Almost every
> potential supplier of 'facts' has his own agenda and cannot be trusted
> to be honest. Even universities, which used to carry out research just
> for the sake of it (e.g. Faraday, Davy etc.) are now mostly sponsored
> by businesses and cannot be trusted to be unbiased. Everything has been
> made political, and there is nobody who does not have their own
> political beliefs and agendas. We users and writers of free software
> certainly do.
> 
> I work on the basis that if something underhanded and unethical can be
> done and can provide some political or financial return, it *will* be
> done until it is discovered and measures are put in place to prevent it
> happening, if indeed that ever occurs. Manufacturers *have* been caught
> eavesdropping on people in their homes, and said that these occasions
> were 'accidental', or for quality control purposes, or some such. Some
> even admit to targeting advertising:
> 
> https://www.techwalls.com/samsung-smart-tv-eavesdropping-company-admits/
> 
> 'Here’s what Samsung says to warn you, at least:
> 
> “Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other
> sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured
> and transmitted to a third party through your use of Voice
> Recognition.”'
> 
> Such manufacturers say that voice facilities can be turned off to
> prevent this, but whose word do we have to take that it is true?
> 
> Remember when Google StreetView camera vehicles were found to be
> collecting personal wifi SSDs and anything available that was
> unencrypted as they drove around?
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-admits-storing-private-data
> 
> Naturally, there were good, honest reasons for doing that, but Google
> would have looked more ethical if it had announced in advance that it
> would be doing it, instead of hiding it until it was discovered.
> 
> Remember when the shiny new Windows 95 was found to be accumulating in
> a file the names of web sites visited? That was a very crude and
> unsophisticated way of spying, a quarter of a century ago, but it
> brought to the public's attention the fact that such spying was now
> possible. Even Windows 95 was just too large to disassemble and audit,
> and an installation was by today's standards a drop in the ocean at
> 25MB. Windows now occupies tens of gigabytes, and even a large Linux
> installation can be several GB in size.
> 
>> This is not religion.
> 
> There is nothing 'religious' about assuming that many private businesses
> will take every opportunity to make money from you in ways that you
> would not permit if you were given the choice. What is the purpose of
> 'free' social media, after all? What about the written guarantee cards
> provided with products since the early twentieth century, to be
> returned to obtain some small additional benefit? What were they if not
> the gathering of low-level purchasing information to assist future
> marketing? We *know* that's the kind of thing businesses do. We should
> expect them to use all possibly technological assistance to do it more
> and better. And we can certainly expect our rulers to spy on us
> whenever possible.

Personal information is the new currency: fact!
Social media organisations do not fund large server banks, and employ
serious numbers of sys. admins, supplying a 24/7 service to supply you
with your own personal 

Re: Multichannel audio playback

[Rodolfo Medina]

David Wright  writes:

> In terms of this computer, all those input and output sockets are the
> equivalent of my little 3.5mm jacks (but with phantom power), and the gain
> knobs are alsamixer sliders.
>
> [...]
>
> And so, by the sounds of the OP's solution post, the only functionality of
> the Behringer being used is the four better quality DACs (rather than my
> two), with four balanced outputs (rather than my two unbalanced ones through
> a 3.5mm jack).
>
> [...]
>
>  Would it help to see what kind of difference there is between a
>  sophisticated card like the Behringer and a run-of-the-mill soundcard, by
>  listing the ALSA Controls with amixer -c 2 scontents as I asked about
>  earlier?


Thanks, David.  What is specifically your audio set, much simpler as you say?
I'm also interested in what you are wondering...  about possibly having the
same functionalities with much a simpler arrangement...

Rodolfo

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[tomas]

On Sat, May 01, 2021 at 10:04:17AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 29 apr 21, 14:21:22, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > BTW I'm not really a luddite [1]. I'd consider a smart phone if I
> > had a comparable control over its guts as I have of my laptop, take
> > or give. Those options are, alas, a tad to pricey for my current
> > income.
> 
> The PinePhone is interesting.

Yes, I know. It is in my shortlist. And, ah... the pinecil :-)

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[Joe]

On Sat, 01 May 2021 09:28:04 +0200
deloptes  wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> 
> > I know someone who started to be shown online adverts that could
> > only have been based on a sound-wave conversation within the
> > hearing of his smartphone. I don't know about other similar claims,
> > but I trust his.
> > 
> > Are you saying that you don't believe anyone could be that naughty?
> > Go look up 'superfish' and 'lenovo' if you're not aware of the
> > incident, and that was years ago. I don't believe that advertisers
> > consider any kind of non-lethal behaviour to be unethical.  
> 
> People can state anything, but it is not necessary true.
> 
> However if you have enabled some kind of assistant like Alexa, Siri or
> whatever they are called, it could be that they are indeed spying on
> you. Again to make such a statement means you need to provide
> evidence.
> 
> Some state their brainwaves are being influenced by whatever (video,
> tv, wireless) It could be true, but there is no evidence and the
> probability of this being true is very low.

At the moment, yes. But there are regular announcements of brain wave
measurements being used by e.g. disabled people to allow some control
of things. Do you doubt for a moment that researchers around the world
are studying brain waves with a view to at least surveillance of
thoughts, if not control, of for weaponry?
> 
> I am writing this and asking you to start checking facts and stop
> believing.
> 

Facts have become extremely difficult to come by. Almost every
potential supplier of 'facts' has his own agenda and cannot be trusted
to be honest. Even universities, which used to carry out research just
for the sake of it (e.g. Faraday, Davy etc.) are now mostly sponsored
by businesses and cannot be trusted to be unbiased. Everything has been
made political, and there is nobody who does not have their own
political beliefs and agendas. We users and writers of free software
certainly do.

I work on the basis that if something underhanded and unethical can be
done and can provide some political or financial return, it *will* be
done until it is discovered and measures are put in place to prevent it
happening, if indeed that ever occurs. Manufacturers *have* been caught
eavesdropping on people in their homes, and said that these occasions
were 'accidental', or for quality control purposes, or some such. Some
even admit to targeting advertising:

https://www.techwalls.com/samsung-smart-tv-eavesdropping-company-admits/

'Here’s what Samsung says to warn you, at least:

“Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other
sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured
and transmitted to a third party through your use of Voice
Recognition.”'

Such manufacturers say that voice facilities can be turned off to
prevent this, but whose word do we have to take that it is true?

Remember when Google StreetView camera vehicles were found to be
collecting personal wifi SSDs and anything available that was
unencrypted as they drove around?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-admits-storing-private-data

Naturally, there were good, honest reasons for doing that, but Google
would have looked more ethical if it had announced in advance that it
would be doing it, instead of hiding it until it was discovered.

Remember when the shiny new Windows 95 was found to be accumulating in
a file the names of web sites visited? That was a very crude and
unsophisticated way of spying, a quarter of a century ago, but it
brought to the public's attention the fact that such spying was now
possible. Even Windows 95 was just too large to disassemble and audit,
and an installation was by today's standards a drop in the ocean at
25MB. Windows now occupies tens of gigabytes, and even a large Linux
installation can be several GB in size.

> This is not religion.

There is nothing 'religious' about assuming that many private businesses
will take every opportunity to make money from you in ways that you
would not permit if you were given the choice. What is the purpose of
'free' social media, after all? What about the written guarantee cards
provided with products since the early twentieth century, to be
returned to obtain some small additional benefit? What were they if not
the gathering of low-level purchasing information to assist future
marketing? We *know* that's the kind of thing businesses do. We should
expect them to use all possibly technological assistance to do it more
and better. And we can certainly expect our rulers to spy on us
whenever possible.

-- 
Joe

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[tomas]

On Sat, May 01, 2021 at 08:31:04AM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:25:20 -0400
> Stefan Monnier  wrote:
> 
> > > viewing material because it's about ten years old. But when we
> > > inevitably replace it and have no choice about accepting a 'smart'
> > > TV,  
> > 
> > There are still normal TVs around.
> > 
> 
> Yes, but not many. We would want another 32" TV, and today the majority
> of those are not 'smart', in fact they're still advertised as 'HD Ready'
> i.e. 720 lines, after we've had 1080 line transmissions for many years.
> But our current TV may go on another ten years, by which time all TVs
> will be spying devices.

For one, in ten years I won't be able to afford a 32". Yes, the TV itself
will be obscenely cheap, but the flat to put it in will be correspondingly
expensive. So it'll be 16" ;-)

For two, the WiFi [1] antenna is pretty easy to locate within the PCB. A
strategically placed solder blob will take care of that one :-]

Cheers

[1] Yeah, I know: at that time, it'll be called Bluetooth VVVLE NewFang™
   or something. But the underlying physics are invariant to marketing
   fads.

 - t


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Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[Joe]

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:25:20 -0400
Stefan Monnier  wrote:

> > viewing material because it's about ten years old. But when we
> > inevitably replace it and have no choice about accepting a 'smart'
> > TV,  
> 
> There are still normal TVs around.
> 

Yes, but not many. We would want another 32" TV, and today the majority
of those are not 'smart', in fact they're still advertised as 'HD Ready'
i.e. 720 lines, after we've had 1080 line transmissions for many years.
But our current TV may go on another ten years, by which time all TVs
will be spying devices.

-- 
Joe

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[deloptes]

Joe wrote:

> I know someone who started to be shown online adverts that could only
> have been based on a sound-wave conversation within the hearing of his
> smartphone. I don't know about other similar claims, but I trust his.
> 
> Are you saying that you don't believe anyone could be that naughty? Go
> look up 'superfish' and 'lenovo' if you're not aware of the incident,
> and that was years ago. I don't believe that advertisers consider any
> kind of non-lethal behaviour to be unethical.

People can state anything, but it is not necessary true.

However if you have enabled some kind of assistant like Alexa, Siri or
whatever they are called, it could be that they are indeed spying on you.
Again to make such a statement means you need to provide evidence.

Some state their brainwaves are being influenced by whatever (video, tv,
wireless) It could be true, but there is no evidence and the probability of
this being true is very low.

I am writing this and asking you to start checking facts and stop believing.
This is not religion.

Re: how to use fetchmail with MS Office 365 / davmail?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 29 apr 21, 14:21:22, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> BTW I'm not really a luddite [1]. I'd consider a smart phone if I
> had a comparable control over its guts as I have of my laptop, take
> or give. Those options are, alas, a tad to pricey for my current
> income.

The PinePhone is interesting.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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