Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/25/24, to...@tuxteam.de  wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 06:05:26PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> May I interject a different perspective?
>> what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, that
>> some
>> see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful?  Or teaching
>> those
>> people how to free themselves from being controlled by those words?
>
> Not using the words doesn't remove the injustice.

Words do not create injustice. You are mistaken.

Broken and damaged individuals perceive injustice.

> I'm not that naïve. It's just a question of politeness.

Actually I wish you were not so naive as to actually believe the
dichomatic trollop you are holding to.

> As an example: I left the Christian religion long time ago. If I visit a
> church (to admire its architecture, for example), I behave with a modicum
> of respect and restrain myself of farting aloud. If I visit a mosque (I'm
> not a Muslim) I take off my shoes.
>
> Because I know there are people in there who might well be offended by some
> behaviour.
>
> It's that easy.

No it's not that easy. What you say here ("It's that easy") is simply not true.

Only in very limited and strictly controlled environments can you get
away with such superficiality. The West placades docility of mind.
This does not mean that a docile mind is worthy of any esteem.

>> Yes, your goals may be honorable to be sure, but in the end do not the
>> words
>> still win if the control remains?
>
> Removing the injustice is a much longer process, and it's important to
> put a lot of work in it. The above is just a friendly acknowledgement
> "yes, I see you". Just politeness. Not more.

No, you missed their point. Either intentionally (in which case you
would rightly be held as manipulative) or unintentionally (in which
case you could rightly be held as docile of mind).

> After all, I try to be polite to you too (I might fail at that, dunno).

"Look, at least I tried to be polite, so please ignore the fact I've
ignored what you said and allow my unspoken assumptions to prevail"

It is really, really dull at this stage.

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/25/24, to...@tuxteam.de  wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:14:44AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> The "problem" is asking the majority (10s of thousands of people) to
>> make efforts to help 1 or 2 heal in their journey's of pain and
>> healing.
>
> To make sure the "majority" stays majority for all so ever: white,
> male, Western Europe or US, English speaking?

Ha! Had to pull the race card now huh? Figured that's where the sjw
wokesters would go. When all else fails, cry "racism".

> For better or worse (IMO for better!) demography of our geek
> communities is slowly changing. This brings about some friction.
> I'm all for facilitating this process: this involves questioning
> my preconceptions.
>
> As a scientist, I'm used to do that, anyway.

A "scientist" you say.

"Oh my, what powerful 'racist' arguments you have there. Oh well, you
win then hey?"

It's all black and white dichotomies from here. The racist "whites" vs
the oppressed "blacks".

Such science! Such awesome power!

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[tomas]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 06:05:26PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> May I interject a different perspective?
> what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, that some
> see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful?  Or teaching those
> people how to free themselves from being controlled by those words?

Not using the words doesn't remove the injustice. I'm not that naïve. It's
just a question of politeness.

As an example: I left the Christian religion long time ago. If I visit a
church (to admire its architecture, for example), I behave with a modicum
of respect and restrain myself of farting aloud. If I visit a mosque (I'm
not a Muslim) I take off my shoes.

Because I know there are people in there who might well be offended by some
behaviour.

It's that easy.

> Yes, your goals may be honorable to be sure, but in the end do not the words
> still win if the control remains?

Removing the injustice is a much longer process, and it's important to
put a lot of work in it. The above is just a friendly acknowledgement
"yes, I see you". Just politeness. Not more.

After all, I try to be polite to you too (I might fail at that, dunno).

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[tomas]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:14:44AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

[...]

> The "problem" is asking the majority (10s of thousands of people) to
> make efforts to help 1 or 2 heal in their journey's of pain and
> healing.

To make sure the "majority" stays majority for all so ever: white,
male, Western Europe or US, English speaking?

For better or worse (IMO for better!) demography of our geek
communities is slowly changing. This brings about some friction.
I'm all for facilitating this process: this involves questioning
my preconceptions.

As a scientist, I'm used to do that, anyway.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Debian 12.5.0 amd64 and OpenZFS bug #15526

[David Christensen]

debian-user:

Is Debian 12.5.0 amd64 affected by OpenZFS bug #15526?

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-12.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/zfs-dkms

https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/15526


David

Re: utilisation de nis et nfs pour un réseau de 32 postes

[zithro]

On 24 Feb 2024 23:23, BERTRAND Joël wrote:

Un gros serveur sous NetBSD et toutes les stations sont diskless et
bootent sur le réseau. Les disques sont en NFS et les swaps en iSCSI.


Peux-tu expliquer ce choix (NFS vs iSCSI) stp ?
Si je dis pas de conneries, tu pourrais boot root (/) en iSCSI.
Note que je suis autant interessé par ton raisonnement (ton choix 
pratique) que par le débat NFS vs iSCSI (la théorie) !
(Y'a pas de solutions toutes faites, le forum de FreeNAS est un bon 
exemple).



La qualité du
switch est primordiale. Passer d'un TPLink à un Cisco m'a changé la vie.


Entièrement d'accord avec toi.
J'en profite pour un coup de gueule, c'est le problème avec le matos 
"grand public".
Un switch 1Gb/s "grand public" veut dire que tu auras ce débit entre 
DEUX stations ! (Comprendre entre 2 ports physiques).
Un "vrai" switch 1Gb/s 10 ports devrait tenir au moins 5Gb/s (sans 
uplink) : deux stations à 1Gpbs, fois 5.
J'ai découvert ce problème par la pratique, chercher "switch backplane" 
sur le net. Même certains switch soit-disant d'entreprise (SOHO) sont 
incapables de tels débits.

(Mais YMMV comme disent les ricains).


Le goulot d'étranglement n'est pas le réseau, mais le système de
fichier sur les disques exportés. J'ai fait la bêtise d'utiliser FFSv2
sur lequel il n'est pas possible de mettre un cache. Lorsque j'aurai le
temps, je remplacerai cela par un ZFS+cache.


AFAIK, le problème de tous réseaux c'est la latence, pas le débit.
(Toutes proportions gardées).
Donc améliorer les accès disque(s) n'améliorent pas forcément la 
"réactivité".

Peux-tu éclairer ma lanterne stp ?

PS: j'ai travaillé dans la VoIP, où j'ai -finalement- compris que 
latence et débit n'ont rien à voir. Sans même parler de jitter (la 
variation de latence en bon céfran).


--
++
zithro / Cyril

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Byunghee HWANG]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 05/02/2024 12:08, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
>> On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
>>> So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
>>> you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
>>> in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark.
>> Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug.
>
> I have no idea concerning GNOME in sid, but a KDE applet from
> nm-plasma in bookworm is able to react to commands
>
> ip link set enp0s2 down
> ip link set enp0s2 up
>
> in a VM when the only interface (besides lo) is managed by
> ifupdown. When the interface is down, the icon changed to a dimmed one
> with a red "x".
>
> I have not figured out how to determine state using nmcli or through
> various objects reported by
>
> busctl tree org.freedesktop.NetworkManager
>
> E.g. nm-online always reports success. It might be some fallback in
> the KDE applet. Depending on that it is either a bug or not in the
> GNOME applet.
>
> P.S.
>
> nmcli dev
> DEVICE  TYPE  STATE   CONNECTION
> lo  loopback  connected (externally)  lo
> enp0s2  ethernet  unmanaged   --
>
> nmcli con
> NAME  UUID  TYPE  DEVICE
> lo18c86315-d7f9-417e-ab2c-c131803b4c0b  loopback  lo
>
> nm-online ; echo $?
> Connecting...   30s [online]
> 0
>

Hellow Max!

Actuallu i have a weak technical background. So i don't know well your
professional analyze. Just i use default values by automatic.

Anyway i attach some screenshot more. As you see to me:


soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ ls -l /etc/network/
total 24
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:29 if-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-post-down.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  8 19:45 if-pre-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:29 if-up.d
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24  2023 interfaces.d
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid
Release:n/a
Codename:   trixie
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ nmcli dev
DEVICE  TYPE  STATE   CONNECTION 
wlp4s0  wifi  connected   V30_3982   
lo  loopback  connected (externally)  lo 
enp2s0  ethernet  unavailable -- 
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ nmcli con
NAMEUUID  TYPE  DEVICE 
V30_3982d5a7a052-5756-4ab9-85b5-a4576b5d4e4d  wifi  wlp4s0 
lo  6b998a36-ea29-4d65-baab-d6d3a8ef  loopback  lo 
Wired connection 1  77a0f34e-c572-38c7-b28d-4f08a33be077  ethernet  -- 
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ ping -c 3 google.com.
PING google.com. (2404:6800:400a:804::200e) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=1 
ttl=51 time=211 ms
64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=2 
ttl=51 time=121 ms
64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=3 
ttl=51 time=255 ms

--- google.com. ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2004ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 121.185/195.563/254.546/55.522 ms
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ echo "I am using GNOME Debian (sid) Thank you Max ^^^"
I am using GNOME Debian (sid) Thank you Max ^^^
soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ date
Sun Feb 25 01:47:11 PM KST 2024


V30_3982 is LG Smartphone (WiFi HotSpot), for the record.


Sincerely, Byunghee from South Korea

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


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Re: Selective rotation of journald logs

[Byunghee HWANG]

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 24/02/2024 21:09, Byunghee HWANG wrote:
>>> When I read the question I decided that syslog for auth facility is a
>>> kind of solution.
>> Really i would like to learn more. Can you show a more specific
>> example?
>> Also i'm using Debian (sid).
>
> Install rsyslog and logrotate and read their configuration
> files. /var/log/auth is configured by default. Journal contains more
> metadata than syslog text files however.

Thank you Max ^^^


Sincerely, Byunghee from South Korea

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


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Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[Max Nikulin]

On 05/02/2024 12:08, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:

So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark.


Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug.


I have no idea concerning GNOME in sid, but a KDE applet from nm-plasma 
in bookworm is able to react to commands


ip link set enp0s2 down
ip link set enp0s2 up

in a VM when the only interface (besides lo) is managed by ifupdown. 
When the interface is down, the icon changed to a dimmed one with a red "x".


I have not figured out how to determine state using nmcli or through 
various objects reported by


busctl tree org.freedesktop.NetworkManager

E.g. nm-online always reports success. It might be some fallback in the 
KDE applet. Depending on that it is either a bug or not in the GNOME applet.


P.S.

nmcli dev
DEVICE  TYPE  STATE   CONNECTION
lo  loopback  connected (externally)  lo
enp0s2  ethernet  unmanaged   --

nmcli con
NAME  UUID  TYPE  DEVICE
lo18c86315-d7f9-417e-ab2c-c131803b4c0b  loopback  lo

nm-online ; echo $?
Connecting...   30s [online]
0

Re: Selective rotation of journald logs

[Max Nikulin]

On 24/02/2024 21:09, Byunghee HWANG wrote:

When I read the question I decided that syslog for auth facility is a
kind of solution.


Really i would like to learn more. Can you show a more specific example?
Also i'm using Debian (sid).


Install rsyslog and logrotate and read their configuration files. 
/var/log/auth is configured by default. Journal contains more metadata 
than syslog text files however.

Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 6:37 PM Andy Smith  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 04:54:12PM +, Alain D D Williams wrote:
> > I sometimes think that something similar to Postel's Law but applied to
> human
> > interactions would be useful. However that is wishful thinking
>
> 
> I'm not saying DON'T give people the benefit of the doubt, but just
> always be aware that when you do there will be people who take
> advantage of that.
>
> Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking
> back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal
> in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile
> Internet.
>

Quoting Paul Vixie 30 years ago at the Usenix technical conference (author
of various RFCs: DHCP, NNTP):

"Its important to remember that the internet escaped from the lab long
before we could put it into anything like production form. It's equally
important that our masters do not learn that".

Thanks,
> Andy
>
> --
> https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
>
>

Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:37 PM Andy Smith  wrote:
>
> [...]
> Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking
> back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal
> in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile
> Internet.

++. Postel's Law is a disaster nowadays. It was fine back in the
1980's, but it is dangerous in the toxic environments of today.

Here's what we teach our developers: Look for any reason you can to
reject the data. If you can't find a reason, then begrudgingly perform
the processing or transformation.

Jeff

Re: medically smart watches

[gene heskett]

On 2/24/24 12:36, gene heskett wrote:

On 2/24/24 12:23, John Hasler wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noninvasive_glucose_monitor

The consensus seems to be that hey are not yet ready for daily driver use.
But I'm that curios cat.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.


So I just installed the only driver that synaptic said was bt-5.3 with 
support for around 20 intel chips.  Then get one of the long range whole 
house models from amazon. Reports later.


Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: debian installer network console

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Hi Andy!

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 5:58 PM Andy Smith  wrote:

> HI Matt,
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 05:40:31PM -0600, Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
> > Does anyone know how to switch to a different virtual console (tty) over
> a
> > network console on a debian install?
>
> I haven't tested this but when doing an install over serial console,
> the installer runs in GNU Screen so it is possible to switch to the
> different terminal by the usual Screen key combinations, e.g. ctrl-a
> then space. This was not obvious to me for many years.
>
> Perhaps it is the same on the network console?
>

Indeed it is!

Thanks for the hint! I've been wondering about it for years. :)

Cheers!

-m

Re: debian installer network console

[Andy Smith]

HI Matt,

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 05:40:31PM -0600, Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
> Does anyone know how to switch to a different virtual console (tty) over a
> network console on a debian install?

I haven't tested this but when doing an install over serial console,
the installer runs in GNU Screen so it is possible to switch to the
different terminal by the usual Screen key combinations, e.g. ctrl-a
then space. This was not obvious to me for many years.

Perhaps it is the same on the network console?

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

debian installer network console

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Greetings,

I use the network-console for the debian installer - it's great.

There are times when I would like to use the console (tty - Ctrl + Alt +
F2) to perform some ad-hoc sysadmin'ing during the install.

Does anyone know how to switch to a different virtual console (tty) over a
network console on a debian install?

Thanks for any help!

-m

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/25/24, Marco Moock  wrote:
> Am Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:42:39 +0100
> schrieb Emanuel Berg :
>
>> I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated
>> with everything negative that is black in language.
>
> I can't understand why people draw that association.
> Black as a color is different from the skin and different from illegal
> activities on black markets.

Absolutely.

Those who are engaging in the superficial side of cultural
manipulation, superficial "social warriors" when they fail to
demonstrate empathy to all sides, all people, have been consciously or
unconsciously exploited, or are active consciously, in this type of
linguistic and cultural manipulation.

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/culture-2018-0023/html?lang=en

This process of societal manipulation, under the guise and pretence of
"social justice" has been underway with intention for decades, and
there is a sort of penultimate fruition of this intention which we now
see manifesting in all online communities as well as in the real
world.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131857.2021.1926982

There are two sides, in fact many sides and viewpoints which can be
considered valid, and from the point of view of some, "Cultural
Marxism" does not even exist and is simply a "far right" meme or even
an "anti semitic conspiracy theory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

Sun Tzu's The Art of War may be a useful foundation for comprehending
the tactics underlying some of the things we read on Wikipedia and
elsewhere... intention is witnessed ultimately in the effects of the
action, not in what is said. The mind is the great trickster. Evil
thrives only in darkness as wile thrives in convoluted linguistic
tactics.

Be not deceived and bring as much light as possible, that ALL sides
may be heard and beheld for their truth, both exposit and clandestine.

For those who got this far, a gem to possibly assist you in unpacking
that which you may have not witnessed before:

https://ijcrsee.com/index.php/ijcrsee/article/view/13/570
"... A lie and manipulation are opposed to different types of truth: a
lie stands up against “semantic truth”; manipulation opposes
“pragmatic truth”.
Manipulation is realized when the listener cannot see the speaker’s
covered intentions behind what is actually being said. As one of the
key parameters of manipulative utterance is specific intentionality,
in order to discriminate manipulation, one has to analyze such
parameters as aim of verbal communication, communicative intention,
reason, and motive. Manipulation is pragmatic aspect that achieves its
goals without evident detection of communicative intention: the
speaker wittingly chooses such form of utterance that lacks direct
signals of his intentional condition..."

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Marco Moock]

Am Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:42:39 +0100
schrieb Emanuel Berg :

> I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated
> with everything negative that is black in language.

I can't understand why people draw that association.
Black as a color is different from the skin and different from illegal
activities on black markets.

Re: which package to file a bug report ?

[Marco Moock]

Am Fri, 23 Feb 2024 13:59:41 +0100
schrieb Frank Weißer :

> First of all: I use german during installation; but I doubt that is 
> relevant.

Try to reproduce it in English if you like.

> Marco Moock:
> > Am 22.02.2024 schrieb Frank Weißer :
> >   
> >> I only choose ext2 for formatting the encrypted partition, because
> >> nothing else is offered.  
> > 
> > That is really strange. If I did install Debian 12, it offered me a
> > list of different file systems, including ext2/3/4.
> >   
> It does on non-crypt partitions, but not if I choose 'physical volume 
> for encryption' there; then afterwards I only have the choices to use
> it as ext2, swap or lvm or leave it unused for the encrypted
> partition.

I chose manual partitioning and I created the LUKS container manually
and then created an ext4 partition inside.

> >> Despite that the partition in fact is getting formatted ext4, so
> >> the entry ext2 in /etc/fstab leads into emergency mode.  
> > 
> > Does the installer format it as ext4, but shows ext2 and places
> > that in fstab?
> > Or do you format it manually?
> >   
> The installer does format it as ext4, but shows ext2 and places that
> in fstab, what ends up in emergency mode. That's why I'm here

That is definitely a bug.

Re: medically smart watches

[Mariusz Gronczewski]

Dnia 2024-02-24, o godz. 12:06:16
gene heskett  napisał(a):

> On 2/24/24 11:03, Loïc Grenié wrote:
> > On Sat Feb 24th, 2024, at 16:03, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > 
> > Greetings all;
> > 
> > As most of you know I'm a DM-II, but the recent shortage of
> > trulicity, a
> > weekly self administerd shot that helps regulate one's blood
> > guclose levels has got us scrambling for alternatives.  So a month
> > back I bought
> > one of the so called smart watches that purports to monitor
> > blood sugar.
> > 
> > 
> > "purports" appears to be the correct verb
> > https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/do-not-use-smartwatches-or-smart-rings-measure-blood-glucose-levels-fda-safety-communication
> > 
> >  
> I got a msg from our state AG warning me about these, but it was 2
> days after I had ordered this thing. Too little warning, too late,
> but I'm the curios type, and this device looks good so I would like
> to see how it compares with the antique finger prick model we've been
> using since Hector's great grandfather was a puppy.. New tech
> sometimes work pretty good while the FDA seems to try to protect old
> tech.
> >     (as for the rest of the mail, I have no idea whatsoever).
> > 
> >    Loïc  
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.

This steers vastly into offtopic but here is a video of someone testing
one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWadFt4vBtY

TL;DR both tested watches were so far off mark they are probably
dangerous.

-- 
Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) 
GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64
https://devrandom.eu

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Karen Lewellen]

May I interject a different perspective?
what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, that 
some see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful?  Or teaching 
those  people how to free themselves from being controlled by those words?
Yes, your goals may be honorable to be sure, but in the end do not the 
words still win if the control remains?

Just a thought,
Karen



On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, Zenaan Harkness wrote:


On 2/23/24, Arno Lehmann  wrote:

On 23.02.24 at 10:33, Mariusz Gronczewski wrote:

On 22.02.2024 11:19, Ralph Aichinger wrote:

Hello!

I know this is a loaded topic...

...

There is no good reason *why*. It's entirely US political feel-good
activism


Statement one above proven.


Missing the wood for the trees.

Acknowledging that part of your interlocutor's statement which does
have substance, is a more useful foundation for actual communication.
Your response to Ralph might be witty, but it is without empathy.


All it does is wastes tens of thousands of people's time once the have
to fix


If there's a single person in the world who feels existing terminology
to hurt them, I consider my usage of such terms.


You are free to do all such consideration you feel appropriate. You
have failed to name the objection, which afaict is the asking of "tens
of thousands" of people in our community to spend their precious Soul
attention on the real psychological and emotional needs of a handful
of damaged individuals in genuine need of healing.


If it makes one person feel better, I think I did something good.


Your good intentions are applauded.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, at least when you put
your imposition on others to "you must act with the good intentions
which I do".


If it makes others feel worse, I have to balance arguments. Arguments
such as "it was always thus" or "it's too much effort" are not strong ones.


If someone is genuinely in need of healing, then the Debian mailing
lists is not an appropriate place for professional help.

If someone is not in need of professional help and genuine healing,
the demand that the community put the attention of thousands (or in
fact 10s of thousands or more) on the delicate emotions of a tiny
number of vocal individuals, is an abhorrent demand, virtually be
definition.


As it happens, I prefer being called "woke" above being rude.


It is good that you have personally found a way to feel good about
your activism. You are applauded, certainly by those who are aware of
the benefit you may have brought to their delicate and fragile
emotions.

And I say that with no sarcasm at all. It is good that people in this
world care about one another. I have no objection that whatsoever, and
in fact when one is lifted a little, I hold that this lifting has a
subtle benefit for us all.


Oh, and tech and culture can not be separated, but that's probably also
a loaded topic.


Every loaded topic, can be unloaded. Unloading a loaded topic simply
requires sufficient linguistic capacity. Keep at your efforts and you
should find success in this regard. I consider such pursuit a useful
endeavor.

I think we can't disappear ifenslave documentation just yet (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 10:52:17PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> If anyone wants to remove the references to ifenslave and
> substitute others, that's entirely fine.

I really don't think in this specific case it would be a good idea
to remove all mention of ifenslave because:

- The current Ethernet bonding support in ifupdown requires
  ifenslave. If you don't install ifenslave, you can't set up a bond
  interface from /etc/network/interfaces except by avoiding the
  actual syntax there for that purpose and doing it with direct
  commands executed by *-up/down hooks.

- Even if it was possible, vast majority of people using bonded
  Ethernets have it done with ifenslave, so it needs at least a
  mention in order that people can understand what they already have.

- ifenslave is a tiny part of the issue. It's fundamental to the
  bonding driver and same terminology will be seen in its
  configuration and in its status output in /proc/net/bonding, e.g:

$ cat /proc/net/bonding/bond0 
Ethernet Channel Bonding Driver: v5.10.0-0.deb10.16-amd64

Bonding Mode: fault-tolerance (active-backup)
Primary Slave: None
Currently Active Slave: eth1
MII Status: up
MII Polling Interval (ms): 100
Up Delay (ms): 0
Down Delay (ms): 0
Peer Notification Delay (ms): 0

Slave Interface: eth0
MII Status: up
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: 00:25:90:5c:f7:ea
Slave queue ID: 0

Slave Interface: eth1
MII Status: up
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: 00:25:90:5c:f7:eb
Slave queue ID: 0

As I've already mentioned though, if anyone finds time to
investigate the teaming driver then it would be really nice to see a
wiki article on that and perhaps a link to that from the existing
one on bonded Ethernets.

So in summary, I don't think ifenslave can actually be purged from
history, but some useful steps could possibly be taken towards its
deprecation - first involving actually documenting the new thing.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

[On list: copied to commun...@debian.org]

Hi people,

As you might have expected: this subject is drifting off-topic and becoming
a little more personal.

In answer to the first question: there's a reference to a wiki page.
It's a wiki page: it can be edited by (almost) anyone. If anyone wants
to remove the references to ifenslave and substitute others, that's
entirely fine.

As regards personal back and forth argument: can I remind _everyone_ on
the list, without exception, of the need to stay within the Debian
Code of Conduct (and the mailing list Code of Conduct).

Please try to be considerate, helpful and ,above all, constructive. It
makes a difference when it comes to dealing with anything remotely
contentious.

I think the discussion might usefully stop at this point before it
degenerates to more heat than light (as is the way of most discussions
eventually - call it an application of mailing list entropy :) ) 

With thanks for your consideration - and with every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater
[For the Community Team]

Re: utilisation de nis et nfs pour un réseau de 32 postes

[BERTRAND Joël]

Basile Starynkevitch a écrit :
> 
> On 2/23/24 12:02, Erwann Le Bras wrote:
>>
>> Bonjour
>>
>> Peut-être faire des essais avec SSHFS? le $HOME des utilisateurs
>> serait monté sur chaque client au boot.
>>
>> Mais je ne sais pas si c'est plus efficace que NFS.
>>
> 
> J'aurais tendance à imaginer que c'est moins efficace que NFS, qui est
> de toute façon lent (car Ethernet est beaucoup plus lent que par exemple
> une liaison SATA à un disque local, même rotatif).
> 
> NFS (à l'époque lointaine où je l'avais utilisé) ne crypte pas les
> données. SSHFS semble les crypter.
> 
> Autrefois (avant 2000) j'avais même utilisé des Sun4/110 dont le swap
> était une partition NFS distante.
> 
> Librement
> 

Bonsoir,

J'ai un réseau complet et hétérogène avec NIS+NFS.

Un gros serveur sous NetBSD et toutes les stations sont diskless et
bootent sur le réseau. Les disques sont en NFS et les swaps en iSCSI.
Ça fonctionne parfaitement bien (ça rame lorsqu'il y a de toutes petites
écritures en rafale en raison du protocole réseau TCP, mais l'immense
majorité du temps, ça fonctionne bien).

Le serveur est relié à un switch Cisco au travers de deux liens
ethernet aggrégés, le reste est en 1 Gbps classique. La qualité du
switch est primordiale. Passer d'un TPLink à un Cisco m'a changé la vie.

Le goulot d'étranglement n'est pas le réseau, mais le système de
fichier sur les disques exportés. J'ai fait la bêtise d'utiliser FFSv2
sur lequel il n'est pas possible de mettre un cache. Lorsque j'aurai le
temps, je remplacerai cela par un ZFS+cache.

NFS à partir de la version 4 chiffre les données (mais n'est pas
interopérable pour l'instant avec NetBSD, donc je n'ai pas testé).

Bien cordialement,

JB



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:17:15AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 2/24/24, Andy Smith  wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 01:35:14PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >> I wrote:
> >> > You seem by now to have ignored multiple messages where it was made
> >> > clear that the work was already done.
> >>
> >> Assuming we care about the most rapid healing possible for those who
> >> are actually triggered by certain words in one or another language,
> >> there is a valid position to consider that is to increase, not
> >> decrease, exposure to and therefore the broader usage of, triggering
> >> words.
> >>
> >> If we care about healing wounds, we ought not remove the catalysts to
> >> that healing.
> >
> > I did wonder how long it would take for someone to go from, "it's
> > terrible that you activists are MAKING someone do this POINTLESS
> > non-technical work!" to "no one should use this thing someone did in
> > their own free time because it's bad, actually, for non-technical
> > reasons!"
> 
> Except "no one should use this thing someone did in their own free
> time because it's bad, actually, for non-technical reasons!" is not
> what I said.

Oh, okay. So what is it exactly about what the developers of the
teaming driver have done with regard to not using so-called
"non-inclusive terminology" that you consider to have been a
mistake?

I thought that was the exact topic of conversation here, and the
above was you saying that it shouldn't be removed but should in fact
be left there as some sort of "shock treatment" but apparently I
have misunderstood you.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/23/24, Arno Lehmann  wrote:
> On 23.02.24 at 10:33, Mariusz Gronczewski wrote:
>> On 22.02.2024 11:19, Ralph Aichinger wrote:
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I know this is a loaded topic...
> ...
>> There is no good reason *why*. It's entirely US political feel-good
>> activism
>
> Statement one above proven.

Missing the wood for the trees.

Acknowledging that part of your interlocutor's statement which does
have substance, is a more useful foundation for actual communication.
Your response to Ralph might be witty, but it is without empathy.

>> All it does is wastes tens of thousands of people's time once the have
>> to fix
>
> If there's a single person in the world who feels existing terminology
> to hurt them, I consider my usage of such terms.

You are free to do all such consideration you feel appropriate. You
have failed to name the objection, which afaict is the asking of "tens
of thousands" of people in our community to spend their precious Soul
attention on the real psychological and emotional needs of a handful
of damaged individuals in genuine need of healing.

> If it makes one person feel better, I think I did something good.

Your good intentions are applauded.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, at least when you put
your imposition on others to "you must act with the good intentions
which I do".

> If it makes others feel worse, I have to balance arguments. Arguments
> such as "it was always thus" or "it's too much effort" are not strong ones.

If someone is genuinely in need of healing, then the Debian mailing
lists is not an appropriate place for professional help.

If someone is not in need of professional help and genuine healing,
the demand that the community put the attention of thousands (or in
fact 10s of thousands or more) on the delicate emotions of a tiny
number of vocal individuals, is an abhorrent demand, virtually be
definition.

> As it happens, I prefer being called "woke" above being rude.

It is good that you have personally found a way to feel good about
your activism. You are applauded, certainly by those who are aware of
the benefit you may have brought to their delicate and fragile
emotions.

And I say that with no sarcasm at all. It is good that people in this
world care about one another. I have no objection that whatsoever, and
in fact when one is lifted a little, I hold that this lifting has a
subtle benefit for us all.

> Oh, and tech and culture can not be separated, but that's probably also
> a loaded topic.

Every loaded topic, can be unloaded. Unloading a loaded topic simply
requires sufficient linguistic capacity. Keep at your efforts and you
should find success in this regard. I consider such pursuit a useful
endeavor.

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/24/24, Andy Smith  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 01:35:14PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> I wrote:
>> > You seem by now to have ignored multiple messages where it was made
>> > clear that the work was already done.
>>
>> Assuming we care about the most rapid healing possible for those who
>> are actually triggered by certain words in one or another language,
>> there is a valid position to consider that is to increase, not
>> decrease, exposure to and therefore the broader usage of, triggering
>> words.
>>
>> If we care about healing wounds, we ought not remove the catalysts to
>> that healing.
>
> I did wonder how long it would take for someone to go from, "it's
> terrible that you activists are MAKING someone do this POINTLESS
> non-technical work!" to "no one should use this thing someone did in
> their own free time because it's bad, actually, for non-technical
> reasons!"

Except "no one should use this thing someone did in their own free
time because it's bad, actually, for non-technical reasons!" is not
what I said.

I suggest you reduce your occurrence of putting words in other
people's mouths, which they did not say. Some folks consider that
rude. Others might claim (validly) that you have a manipulative
agenda.

> Meanwhile I'd just appreciate hearing from actual users of it, since
> I might be one, one day.

You are welcome to invite user feedback.

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/25/24, to...@tuxteam.de  wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 04:54:12PM +, Alain D D Williams wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 09:03:45AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
>>
>> > > It was a BLM thing, not sure if it matters the etymology of such
>> > > words.
>> >
>> > The etymology certainly *should* matter, insofar as that is the origin
>> > of the *meaning* of the word(s).
>>
>> +1
>>
>> However that is not the way that the world works, or prolly more
>> accurately how
>> some people think. They see a word/phrase that they have decided that
>> they
>> "own" [...]
>
> It's not just "they", that's the point. It's us all.

The "problem" is asking the majority (10s of thousands of people) to
make efforts to help 1 or 2 heal in their journey's of pain and
healing.

>> I sometimes think that something similar to Postel's Law but applied to
>> human
>> interactions would be useful. However that is wishful thinking
>
> Actually, Postel's Law is a very appropriate metaphor. It has two sides.
> My side is here: if I have reasons to suspect something might offend my
> interlocutor, I'll try to avoid it -- unless there's a stronger reason
> not to.

That's considerate human behaviour.

Some humans are in so much pain and need so much healing, that their
demands for our behaviour and or language change, becomes an
oppression against us.

SOMEtimes non experts are able to facilitate the healing of those who
need healing.

Other times, we are presuming expert ability which is very unwise -
for example if a particular individual is so damaged and in need of
emotional support and healing, that reading a single word or phrase is
likely to lead them to suicide, then that person seriously needs
professional help and it is very unwise to let them loose in our
general community where such words and phrases are readily come
across.

Children bond with their mothers and fathers in normal wholesome
families. Someone who is so damaged that they are seriously triggered
by the word bonding, needs professional assistance.

The Debian mailing lists are not, at least as far as I understand it,
medical (or psychological) institutions, and it is unwise (I would
suggest "in the extreme") for us to pretend otherwise.

Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 04:54:12PM +, Alain D D Williams wrote:
> I sometimes think that something similar to Postel's Law but applied to human
> interactions would be useful. However that is wishful thinking

The basic assumption that people mean well is how con artists and
high pressure sales tactics have operated since the dawn of
communication ("Oh, you can't afford the vacuum cleaner? I really
shouldn't, but let me just call my boss because I really want to
help you…").

Although at least with con artists there is the other thing of
"can't con an honest John".

I'm not saying DON'T give people the benefit of the doubt, but just
always be aware that when you do there will be people who take
advantage of that.

Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking
back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal
in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile
Internet.


Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: medically smart watches

[Andy Smith]

Hi,

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 10:03:16AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> As most of you know I'm a DM-II, but the recent shortage of trulicity, a
> weekly self administerd shot that helps regulate one's blood guclose levels
> has got us scrambling for alternatives.  So a month back I bought one of the
> so called smart watches that purports to monitor blood sugar.

I'm having some difficulty translating your words and acronyms but I
think I got the gist that you're type II diabetic and have bought a
watch for glucose monitoring?

I'm also a type II diabetic and am interested in glucose monitoring
but everything I have read about the watches says they are terribly
inaccurate for this. I can't even buy one here in UK because it
would be classed as a medical device, that cannot show it works for
its intended purpose; these things are therefore only available for
grey import.

So I wouldn't bother and I don't intend to help someone do such an
unwise thing even if I had the faintest idea how you would bypass
the phone pairing needs of some random IoT garbage.

As an aside, not even the 2 week sensors that impale your upper arm
and stay affixed are accurate for me, though I know they are for
most as they actually are approved. So it's daily finger prick for
me for the foreseeable.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Mariusz Gronczewski]

Dnia 2024-02-24, o godz. 14:42:39
Emanuel Berg  napisał(a):

> jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
> >> But what about the black market? Or does in fact "block
> >> market" work just fine?  
> >
> > The term "black market" is from World War II - i.e. 1939-45.
> > It has nothing to do with slaves. It means transactions in
> > the dark, not visible,  not official.  
> 
> I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated
> with everything negative that is black in language.

They are not associated with everything negative. The people that want
those changed just assume that people think that. I assure you normal
people don't see the word "black" attached to something and
automatically think it means something about the people. 

People wanting to change common unoffensive terms just assume everyone
else *must* be racist so they play the pretend game and imagine that if
their idealized proxy for minority that they imagined in their heads
would get offended that it needs to be changed

One of recent (and also not so recent as similar thing was tried few 
decades before with same character) examples of that was when some
activists decided "surely Speedy Gonzales stereotypica presentation 
of Mexicans is racist, lets remove it". 

Someone imagined people portrayed might be offended, decided to not 
ask anyone (or as the single person offended they could find in hundreds)
in actual demographics, then remove it. Then the activists patted 
themselves on the back after doing the good in the world.

Then the minority told them to sod off and bring it back because thats
the opposite of what they wanted and all they ended up doing is pissing
off or wasting time of everyone involved

As for that particular phrase I'm guessing black market came from being
under cover of darkness, underground or otherwise secluded area, but
I'm no etymologist. People just like short descriptive terms and dont 
care much about source of words.

Slave kinda came from that too; in many hardware setups it does
actually means "the device's every action is directed by master" and
not just "a replica or a secondary node", like for example in SPI or
I2C protocol the master is only one putting read/write commands on the
bus and slave device just respons to orders. You could maybe replace it
with thrall but I'm sure someone would be offended on behalf of someone
else by that too somehow...

-- 
Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) 
GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64
https://devrandom.eu

Re: medically smart watches

[Lee]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 12:06 PM gene heskett wrote:
>
> On 2/24/24 11:03, Loïc Grenié wrote:
> > On Sat Feb 24th, 2024, at 16:03, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > As most of you know I'm a DM-II, but the recent shortage of
> > trulicity, a
> > weekly self administerd shot that helps regulate one's blood guclose
> > levels has got us scrambling for alternatives.  So a month back I
> > bought
> > one of the so called smart watches that purports to monitor blood sugar.
> >
> >
> > "purports" appears to be the correct verb
> > https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/do-not-use-smartwatches-or-smart-rings-measure-blood-glucose-levels-fda-safety-communication
> >  
> > 
> >
> I got a msg from our state AG warning me about these, but it was 2 days
> after I had ordered this thing. Too little warning, too late, but I'm
> the curios type, and this device looks good so I would like to see how
> it compares with the antique finger prick model we've been using since
> Hector's great grandfather was a puppy.. New tech sometimes work pretty
> good while the FDA seems to try to protect old tech.

Give the FreeStyle Libre 14 day sensor a try - it's so much nicer than
poking holes in yourself whenever you want to know what your blood
sugar is.
There's a reader you have to buy or a current enough smart phone can
be used as a reader.

What I'd like to find is software that lets me get the data off the
reader into my PC.  Abbott wants everything uploaded to their servers
and I quit reading the terms of service when it got to them giving out
my data after 'anonymising' it.

Regards
Lee

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[tomas]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 04:54:12PM +, Alain D D Williams wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 09:03:45AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
> > > It was a BLM thing, not sure if it matters the etymology of such
> > > words.
> > 
> > The etymology certainly *should* matter, insofar as that is the origin
> > of the *meaning* of the word(s).
> 
> +1
> 
> However that is not the way that the world works, or prolly more accurately 
> how
> some people think. They see a word/phrase that they have decided that they
> "own" [...]

It's not just "they", that's the point. It's us all.

> I sometimes think that something similar to Postel's Law but applied to human
> interactions would be useful. However that is wishful thinking

Actually, Postel's Law is a very appropriate metaphor. It has two sides.
My side is here: if I have reasons to suspect something might offend my
interlocutor, I'll try to avoid it -- unless there's a stronger reason
not to.

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Support for AMD SOC digital microphone

[Geert Stappers]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 02:58:34PM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 01:24:58PM +0100, Pavel Lunix wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I have Lenovo Thinkpad P14s Gen4 AMD and found the integrated microphone is
> > not working due to missing kernel module (+ the integraded dmic under the
> > same structure):
> > https://www.kernelconfig.io/config_snd_soc_amd_ps
> > 
> > >From Debian stock kernel config:
> > # CONFIG_SND_SOC_AMD_PS is not set
> > 
> > What is the appropriate place to request adding this module to Debian
> > kernel?
> 
> This seems to be addressed here:
> 
>  https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2023/12/msg00362.html
> 
> HTH

It did help. It did prove that a tomas email can be more as an
opinion. The URL leads to bugreport 1055649 and that BR is against
the package 'linux'.

To answer the original "Where to request adding a kernel module?":

  Bugreport against package linux



Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: medically smart watches

[gene heskett]

On 2/24/24 12:23, John Hasler wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noninvasive_glucose_monitor

The consensus seems to be that hey are not yet ready for daily driver use.
But I'm that curios cat.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: medically smart watches

[John Hasler]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noninvasive_glucose_monitor
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: medically smart watches

[gene heskett]

On 2/24/24 11:15, Stefan Monnier wrote:

So the question I'm getting to is: Do we have a utility that can be paired
with whatever wifi/bluetooth this thing uses and would allow it to work?


With a bit of luck it can be "paired" with your "2TB" SSDs?


 Stefan "sorry, couldn't resist"

.

That category seems to fit both of us. ;o)>

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: medically smart watches

[gene heskett]

On 2/24/24 11:03, Loïc Grenié wrote:

On Sat Feb 24th, 2024, at 16:03, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

As most of you know I'm a DM-II, but the recent shortage of
trulicity, a
weekly self administerd shot that helps regulate one's blood guclose
levels has got us scrambling for alternatives.  So a month back I
bought
one of the so called smart watches that purports to monitor blood sugar.


"purports" appears to be the correct verb
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/do-not-use-smartwatches-or-smart-rings-measure-blood-glucose-levels-fda-safety-communication
 


I got a msg from our state AG warning me about these, but it was 2 days 
after I had ordered this thing. Too little warning, too late, but I'm 
the curios type, and this device looks good so I would like to see how 
it compares with the antique finger prick model we've been using since 
Hector's great grandfather was a puppy.. New tech sometimes work pretty 
good while the FDA seems to try to protect old tech.

    (as for the rest of the mail, I have no idea whatsoever).

   Loïc


Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Alain D D Williams]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 09:03:45AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:

> > It was a BLM thing, not sure if it matters the etymology of such
> > words.
> 
> The etymology certainly *should* matter, insofar as that is the origin
> of the *meaning* of the word(s).

+1

However that is not the way that the world works, or prolly more accurately how
some people think. They see a word/phrase that they have decided that they
"own" or somehow relates to them and so view it entirely from their
perspective; they make no attempt to understand how the speaker/writer viewed
the word/phrase as they *know* what the only meaning can be - everything else
is a wrong interpretation. There is little point in trying to argue against
someone who has decided to think this way, arguing will just confirm, to them,
that you are racist/xxxist and are against them.

I sometimes think that something similar to Postel's Law but applied to human
interactions would be useful. However that is wishful thinking

https://devopedia.org/postel-s-law

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT 
Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: 
https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html
#include 

Re: medically smart watches

[Stefan Monnier]

> So the question I'm getting to is: Do we have a utility that can be paired
> with whatever wifi/bluetooth this thing uses and would allow it to work?

With a bit of luck it can be "paired" with your "2TB" SSDs?


Stefan "sorry, couldn't resist"

Re: qemu et lancer un system " reel "

[kaliderus]

Retour final pour ceux qui seraient confrontés aux mêmes embêtements  :

- passer l'utilisateur qui doit utiliser qemu dans le group " disk "
pour accéder aux partitions racine
- penser à passer suffisamment de RAM à la machine virtuelle pour
décompresser et utiliser le noyau et le initramfs, pourtant testé à -m
256 (bloquage) le processus passe normalement à -m  size=4G (sans
doute trop)
- qemu n'est pas capable (à ma connaissance) d'utiliser le BIOS natif
de la machine, et le SeaBios par défaut ne convient pas, il faut donc
lui indiquer d'utiliser OVMF.fd
- un montage automatique des partitions paramétré dans PCmanFM-QT
(environnement LXQT), qui fait que quand qemu voulait accéder à
/dev/sdb (ancien système) il lançait un fsck systématique des
partitions, et plantait, pour se retrouver en shell de secours. Ne pas
lancer qemu sur une partition déjà montée (ou c'est PCman le problème
?)
- les partitions spécifiées par /dev/sdb et /dev/sdb1 etc. (sans doute
des restes de version précédentes de Debian) sont sujettes à être
confondues avec le nouveau système au niveau de grub.cfg (qui ne peut
accéder ensuite à /home), il est donc nécessaire de les spécifier par
le UUID (modifier /etc/default/grub pour décommenter
#GRUB_DISABLE_LINUX_UUID=true) et relancer update-grub (et modifier
/boot/grub/grub.cfg à la main est assez pénible quand on a pas le bon
clavier, mais étape nécessaire avant l'update du grub)
- Note : utiliser l'aide de -device pour voir tous les composants
disponible (pas nécessairement super clairs)
- les paramètres (proscrire -drive car stabilité non-garantie)
-blockdev 
node-name=diskdebase,driver=raw,file.driver=host_device,file.filename=/dev/sdb
\
-device virtio-blk,drive=diskdebase
sont suffisants dans l'immédiat pour utiliser l'ancien système

ps : en investiguant un peu j'ai remarqué que AMI propose leur bios
sous licence BSD-2, peut-être est-ce une autre solution ?

Re: medically smart watches

[Loïc Grenié]

On Sat Feb 24th, 2024, at 16:03, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> As most of you know I'm a DM-II, but the recent shortage of trulicity, a
> weekly self administerd shot that helps regulate one's blood guclose
> levels has got us scrambling for alternatives.  So a month back I bought
> one of the so called smart watches that purports to monitor blood sugar.
>

"purports" appears to be the correct verb
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/do-not-use-smartwatches-or-smart-rings-measure-blood-glucose-levels-fda-safety-communication

   (as for the rest of the mail, I have no idea whatsoever).

  Loïc

Re: Re: Issue with USB External Keyboard, External Mouse, and Screen Brightness on Dell Laptop

[Marcelo Laia]

10,916 V looks a bit odd to me.


After your comments, I looking forward about the battery voltage and I
found this:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-choose-laptop-battery-king-sener/

"Voltage is closely related to the number of cells in the battery -
typically a 10.8V battery has 6 cells and a 14.4V battery has 8 cells."


https://superuser.com/questions/33207/laptop-battery-is-voltage-really-important-to-respect

https://superuser.com/a/406492

"The first stage is adapter which is nearly 5 V higher than the battery
rating voltage to charge it faster to the full. Now the second stage is
the motherboard or processor which typically runs at 5 V and for that
you have voltage regulator inside."

At 98%, the voltage here is:

  battery
present: yes
rechargeable:yes
state:   charging
warning-level:   none
energy:  36,0417 Wh
energy-empty:0 Wh
energy-full: 36,3858 Wh
energy-full-design:  59,94 Wh
energy-rate: 1,8537 W
voltage: 12,734 V
charge-cycles:   N/A
time to full:11,1 minutes
percentage:  99%
capacity:60,7037%
technology:  lithium-ion
icon-name:  'battery-full-charging-symbolic'

I found that this battery I bought in 2019. However, it is pretty good
yet!


--
Marcelo

medically smart watches

[gene heskett]

Greetings all;

As most of you know I'm a DM-II, but the recent shortage of trulicity, a 
weekly self administerd shot that helps regulate one's blood guclose 
levels has got us scrambling for alternatives.  So a month back I bought 
one of the so called smart watches that purports to monitor blood sugar.


No mention of it needing to be paired withe iphone or clone there of.

But it does even work as a watch when unpaired. It has no setime from 
the single button it has, apparently using ntp thru the smartphone pair 
for that.


Someplace in this midden heap I hail from is a USB3 hub with only 3 usb 
port, the 4th port has a wifi radio and a cat6 socket. The radios in 
everything else here are turned off to keep a used to be neighbor from 
using 80G a month with his cellphone, billed to me.


So the question I'm getting to is: Do we have a utility that can be 
paired with whatever wifi/bluetooth this thing uses and would allow it 
to work? This watch is a "MOVEMENT" SMART WATCH. Ack the instructs its a 
bluetooth, and It looks as if I have to buy a BT adaptor, so advise on 
that front would be most welcome also.


I tried a bt house net 20 years ago, 3% dependability, haven't messed 
with it since. Couldn't move a 3k text file even rz/sz-3.3.6 aka zmodem.


Thank you all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Selective rotation of journald logs

[Byunghee HWANG]

Hellow Max!

Max Nikulin  writes:

> On 23/02/2024 17:15, Nicolas George wrote:
>> How do I tell systemd's logging system to keep authentication logs
>> for
>> one year and mail logs for one month?
>
> (...)
>
> P.S.
> When I read the question I decided that syslog for auth facility is a
> kind of solution.

Really i would like to learn more. Can you show a more specific example?
Also i'm using Debian (sid).


Thanks, Byunghee from South Korea

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


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Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[The Wanderer]

On 2024-02-24 at 08:42, Emanuel Berg wrote:

> jeremy ardley wrote:
> 
>>> But what about the black market? Or does in fact "block market"
>>> work just fine?
>> 
>> The term "black market" is from World War II - i.e. 1939-45. It has
>> nothing to do with slaves. It means transactions in the dark, not
>> visible,  not official.
> 
> I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated with
> everything negative that is black in language.

The answer to that would then be to stop making such associations, on
the basis that it was a misnomer to label those people as "black" (with
whatever pre-existing connotations, negative or otherwise, that may have
had) in the first place - not to require that everything negative that
has that label be given a different label.

That may seem (or even be) unrealistically facile, but that doesn't mean
it isn't in some sense the correct resolution. It can hardly be much
more unrealistic than getting everyone to change all existing
negative-sense usage of "black".

> It was a BLM thing, not sure if it matters the etymology of such
> words.

The etymology certainly *should* matter, insofar as that is the origin
of the *meaning* of the word(s).

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: Support for AMD SOC digital microphone

[tomas]

On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 01:24:58PM +0100, Pavel Lunix wrote:
> Hello,
> I have Lenovo Thinkpad P14s Gen4 AMD and found the integrated microphone is
> not working due to missing kernel module (+ the integraded dmic under the
> same structure):
> https://www.kernelconfig.io/config_snd_soc_amd_ps
> 
> >From Debian stock kernel config:
> # CONFIG_SND_SOC_AMD_PS is not set
> 
> What is the appropriate place to request adding this module to Debian
> kernel?

This seems to be addressed here:

 https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2023/12/msg00362.html

HTH
-- 
tomás


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Re: 'sensors -j' and "ERROR: Can't get value of subfeature in0_input: Can't read"

[Emanuel Berg]

>> In general, the first thing you should try is running
>> sensors-detect again, as root.
>
> Okay, I did that ('sudo sensors-detect') and answered with the
> default value to all questions, after that I did 'sensors -j'
> but it displayed the same error.
>
>> It is possible that your kernel is not loading some
>> particular sensor module which would be recommended by
>> sensors-detect.
>
> So I should reboot? Let's do that.

I rebooted but same :(

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Emanuel Berg]

jeremy ardley wrote:

>> But what about the black market? Or does in fact "block
>> market" work just fine?
>
> The term "black market" is from World War II - i.e. 1939-45.
> It has nothing to do with slaves. It means transactions in
> the dark, not visible,  not official.

I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated
with everything negative that is black in language.

It was a BLM thing, not sure if it matters the etymology of
such words.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Support for AMD SOC digital microphone

[Pavel Lunix]

Hello,
I have Lenovo Thinkpad P14s Gen4 AMD and found the integrated microphone is
not working due to missing kernel module (+ the integraded dmic under the
same structure):
https://www.kernelconfig.io/config_snd_soc_amd_ps

>From Debian stock kernel config:
# CONFIG_SND_SOC_AMD_PS is not set

What is the appropriate place to request adding this module to Debian
kernel?

Thanks
Pavel

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[jeremy ardley]

On 24/2/24 19:25, Emanuel Berg wrote:

But what about the black market? Or does in fact "block
market" work just fine?


The term "black market" is from World War II - i.e. 1939-45. It has 
nothing to do with slaves. It means transactions in the dark, not 
visible,  not official.

Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Emanuel Berg]

Marco Moock wrote:

> Just check what different meanings GIMP has. Maybe some more
> people now feel uncomfortable with using it.
> https://www.dict.cc/?s=gimp

Yes, people have been saying that for quite some time:

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20359520]

  
https://www.theregister.com/2019/08/28/gimp_open_source_image_editor_forked_to_fix_problematic_name/

Personally, I don't really care, at least not in the
master/slave and GIMP cases.

Blacklist perhaps could and should be changed to blocklist.

But what about the black market? Or does in fact "block
market" work just fine?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Re: Issue with USB External Keyboard, External Mouse, and Screen Brightness on Dell Laptop

[hw]

Is it possible that the USB ports do not supply power once the laptop
is running on battery?

Does the NumLock LED of the keyboard go out?


On Thu, 2024-02-22 at 13:49 -0300, Marcelo Laia wrote:
> Dear Debian Users,
> 
> Thank you all for the invaluable assistance provided. Unfortunately, the 
> issue has resurfaced today. I don't believe it's related to the age of the 
> hardware, although my Inspiron 5547-A20 is from 2014, as indicated below:
> 
> Inspiron 5547 01 OCT. 2014
> 
> Some hardware details:
> 
> - BIOS:
>- Vendor: Dell Inc.
>- Version: A13
>- Date: 05/27/2019
> - CPU:
>- Product: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4510U CPU @ 2.00GHz
> - Memory:
>- Size: 16GB
> 
> Today, the battery still had 66% charge when this strange problem occurred. 
> It's worth mentioning that in all these days, between my last post here on 
> the list and today, I always use the battery until it reaches between 20-10%, 
> at which point I plug in the charger and let it charge until it reaches 
> 95-100%.
> 
> I ran the following commands:
> 
> With the power cable plugged into the power grid, i.e., the battery is 
> charging:
> 
> :~$ sudo lsusb -t
> 
> /:  Bus 001.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci-pci/2p, 480M
>  |__ Port 001: Dev 002, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/8p, 480M
>  |__ Port 005: Dev 003, If 0, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>  |__ Port 005: Dev 003, If 1, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>  |__ Port 006: Dev 004, 12M
>  |__ Port 007: Dev 005, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, 
> Driver=rtsx_usb, 480M
>  |__ Port 008: Dev 006, If 0, Class=Video, Driver=uvcvideo, 480M
>  |__ Port 008: Dev 006, If 1, Class=Video, Driver=uvcvideo, 480M
> /:  Bus 002.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/9p, 480M
>  |__ Port 002: Dev 007, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, 
> Driver=usbhid, 1.5M
> /:  Bus 003.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/4p, 5000M
> :~$
> 
> :~$ ls /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usb/
> 1-1  1-1.5  1-1.6  1-1.7  1-1.8  2-2  bind  module  uevent  unbind  usb1  
> usb2  usb3
> :~$ 
> 
> After unplugging the power cable, i.e., the battery is discharging:
> 
> After a few seconds, the screen brightness is set to zero. The mouse remains 
> active, and I can use it for a few more seconds, when it also becomes 
> disabled. From then on, only the touchpad and internal keyboard are 
> functional.
> 
> :~$ sudo lsusb -t
> 
> /:  Bus 001.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci-pci/2p, 480M
>  |__ Port 001: Dev 002, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/8p, 480M
>  |__ Port 005: Dev 003, If 0, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>  |__ Port 005: Dev 003, If 1, Class=Wireless, Driver=btusb, 12M
>  |__ Port 006: Dev 004, 12M
>  |__ Port 007: Dev 005, If 0, Class=Vendor Specific Class, 
> Driver=rtsx_usb, 480M
>  |__ Port 008: Dev 006, If 0, Class=Video, Driver=uvcvideo, 480M
>  |__ Port 008: Dev 006, If 1, Class=Video, Driver=uvcvideo, 480M
> /:  Bus 002.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/9p, 480M
> /:  Bus 003.Port 001: Dev 001, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci_hcd/4p, 5000M
> :~$ 
> 
> ~$ ls /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usb/
> 1-1  1-1.5  1-1.6  1-1.7  1-1.8  bind  module  uevent  unbind  usb1  usb2  
> usb3
> :~$ 
> 
> :~$ echo '2-2' | sudo tee /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usb/bind 
> 2-2
> tee: /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usb/bind: No device
> :~$ 
> 
> :~$ upower --dump
> Device: /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/line_power_ACAD
>native-path:  ACAD
>power supply: yes
>updated:  qui 22 fev 2024 13:23:50 (182 seconds ago)
>has history:  no
>has statistics:   no
>line-power
>  warning-level:   none
>  online:  no
>  icon-name:  'ac-adapter-symbolic'
> 
> Device: /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1
>native-path:  BAT1
>vendor:   SANYO
>model:DELL WYT3M94Q
>serial:   0038
>power supply: yes
>updated:  qui 22 fev 2024 13:26:31 (21 seconds ago)
>has history:  yes
>has statistics:   yes
>battery
>  present: yes
>  rechargeable:yes
>  state:   discharging
>  warning-level:   none
>  energy:  23,9982 Wh
>  energy-empty:0 Wh
>  energy-full: 36,4857 Wh
>  energy-full-design:  59,94 Wh
>  energy-rate: 30,0588 W
>  voltage: 10,916 V
>  charge-cycles:   N/A
>  time to empty:   47,9 minutes
>  percentage:  65%
>  capacity:60,8704%
>  technology:  lithium-ion
>  icon-name:  'battery-full-symbolic'
>History (charge):
>  1708619191   65,000  discharging
>  1708619161   66,000  discharging
>  1708619101   67,000  discharging
>History (rate):
>  1708619101 

Re: Journald's qualities

[Kamil Jońca]

Mariusz Gronczewski  writes:

[...]
>
> Offtopic but since Debian switched to systemd for DNS management on
> VPNs and suc I need to restart it sometimes multiple times to just get
> "right" DNS servers, because there appears to be no notion of priority:

Well, I am using  openresolv (earlier resolvconf) for that + dnsmasq, as
a forwarder. 

I have turned off systemd resolver.
Similary I do not like system-networkd (I am using ifupdown) - it also
pretend to be more wise than me.

KJ

Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs)

[Mariusz Gronczewski]

Dnia 2024-02-23, o godz. 15:05:52
Nicholas Geovanis  napisał(a):

> On Fri, Feb 23, 2024, 2:57 PM Dan Ritter  wrote:
> 
> > Stefan Monnier wrote:  
> > > Makes one wonder why they don't use naive append-only "plain
> > > text" logs (tho with appropriate delimiters (maybe some kind of
> > > CSV) to make searches more reliable than with old-style plain
> > > text logs)?
> > >
> > > What are the advantages of journald's representation?
> > > I mean, to justify the slow search and large disk space usage,
> > > there is presumably some upside for some use cases.  I can see
> > > some weak argument against Sqlite based on the size of Sqlite,
> > > but what are the advantages of journald's representation compared
> > > to a naive one?  
> >
> >
> > systemd's design philosophy, observed from the outside, goes
> > like this:
> >  
> 
> bunch trimmed.
> 
> Exactly correct in my view. Systemd's use-case is the desktop, not the
> server in the datacenter. They will be using log-aggregation software
> in the datacenter anyway so no use for systemd logging. We don't
> install desktop software on servers either, no X Windows, no gnome,
> etc. Network connections are stable, no roaming :-)
> 
> Long-term logs are for servers, so systemd doesn't want them.

Right but it would be nice if it could at least forward them upstream
then! Your choices are

* use rsyslog, which does everything better than journald, including
  writing to many different databases directly, just to forward to
  remote host.
* setup super special listener for super special journald remote log
  sending method that nothing but journald supports

If it just supported standard, common protocols like RFC5424 flavour
(that adds structured data to entries), or hell, just "send a JSONed
log to that address", I could just have a bunch of my "small" devices
run journald-only and send it to central logging server. But no dice,
even my router needs to run extra daemon just to forward logs.

Actually, having pluggable "backends" would solve a lot of that, dumb
little IoT device could just have "a text file" or remote output
implemented as write method and "grep the text file" as query method.
Or DBI plugin that could write to SQLite and query it back. Or just
remote log plugin that returned "sorry, your logs are in another
castle" on query. But that's just building rsyslog but worse at that
point...

I wish I disliked C less than I miss those features...
-- 
Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) 
GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64
https://devrandom.eu

Re: Journald's qualities

[Mariusz Gronczewski]

Dnia 2024-02-23, o godz. 23:02:49
Jeffrey Walton  napisał(a):

> 
> Systemd also provides tamper-resistant logs. The property is often
> desirable in the enterprise. See Forward Secure Sealing,
> .
> 
> Jeff
> 

I had mentioned that feature. I haven't it seen in a wild or as an
requirement, ever, and we work with few of the local banks deploying
apps on their infrastructure.

It's *basically* always "send the logs to audit server". rm -rf
/var/log does not care about tamper proofing either.

IMO it's a feature that should be a separate plugin that the people
that need it can just load and use. There is no reason to have it in
default logging format or carry the burden of code for it in core.

Now, tamper-proof *wire* format, that could be useful (if enough other
software supported it). Rsyslog have RELP
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliable_Event_Logging_Protocol) that we
use as it fix few of the issues with sending logs via TCP/TLS
(interrupted connection can lose up to buffer's worth of logs), having
on top of that information "hey, some of the blocks of that log were
lost before being sent" would be useful. For that all it would be
needed is to FSS send queue of logger (which wouldn't be queried so it
could be nice and compressed), not entire on-disk format. 

Then again journald can't even send(AFAIK) using normal syslog protocol
as author decided to XKCD#927 that too...

-- 
Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) 
GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64
https://devrandom.eu

Re: utilisation de nis et nfs pour un réseau de 32 postes

[Michel Verdier]

Le 23 février 2024 Erwann Le Bras a écrit :

> Peut-être faire des essais avec SSHFS? le $HOME des utilisateurs serait monté
> sur chaque client au boot.
>
> Mais je ne sais pas si c'est plus efficace que NFS.

J'ai pas mal utilisé sshfs et ça reste assez performant même via
internet pour des postes nomades. Il y a bien sûr le cryptage et la
compression qui demandent un peu plus de CPU, mais la compression
accélère bien le tout. Selon le matériel et le débit en local on peut
désactiver la compression.

Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs)

[Mariusz Gronczewski]

Dnia 2024-02-23, o godz. 12:34:34
Dan Ritter  napisał(a):

> Stefan Monnier wrote: 
> > Makes one wonder why they don't use naive append-only "plain text"
> > logs (tho with appropriate delimiters (maybe some kind of CSV) to
> > make searches more reliable than with old-style plain text logs)?
> > 
> > What are the advantages of journald's representation?
> > I mean, to justify the slow search and large disk space usage,
> > there is presumably some upside for some use cases.  I can see some
> > weak argument against Sqlite based on the size of Sqlite, but what
> > are the advantages of journald's representation compared to a naive
> > one?  
> 
> 
> systemd's design philosophy, observed from the outside, goes
> like this:
> 
> - assume that the machine is a laptop or mobile device that is
> always changing: moves from network to network, plugs and
> unplugs devices, goes to sleep and is woken up

I had thought similar thoughts many times when using it. But some of
the stuff that derived from that is pretty useful; for example we had a
service tht downloaded encryption keys from central server to unlock
the hard drive and sysV version was a bit of a mess (if service didn't
ran on boot there was no unlocked volume to mount), while in systemd
the dependencies allow it to automatically bring it up when mount is
requested, and the mount will also be automatically done if service
using it is started (if it has correct RequiresMountsFor entries). So
some actually useful stuff for more "constant config" machines had
flown from that

> - disk space is limited, but cpu time is free

In which way ? It doesn't care about wasting space, but it does assume
you have blazing fast storage or else journal related ops are sluggish
(and waste disk cache as it just reads hundreds of MBs to find last few
lines of logfile)

> - the network knows better than local config

Offtopic but since Debian switched to systemd for DNS management on
VPNs and suc I need to restart it sometimes multiple times to just get
"right" DNS servers, because there appears to be no notion of priority:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/27543

so now any time I connect to work (just openvpn tunnel, nothing fancy)
I need to spam

systemclt restart systemd-resolved ; sleep 1 ; cat /etc/resolv.conf

few times till the dice rolls the right order of DNS servers...

XANi



-- 
Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) 
GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64
https://devrandom.eu