Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[gene heskett]

On 3/16/24 16:20, Charles Curley wrote:

On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:30:46 -0700
Steve Sobol  wrote:


I already get a ton of legitimate mail from the debian-user mailing
list. Don't need the off-topic crap.


Concur.



Admins, could you please get rid of the people who are contributing
to the noise?


Or at least make them aware of their rudeness.

Thank you.


+100.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Debugging an USB array issue

[gene heskett]

On 3/16/24 12:27, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 16/03/2024 00:45, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 01:30:08PM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:

I have never had long-term happiness with multiple disks
connected via USB.


However: I have a similar disk array running 24h/24h for the last 
three years
on a Debian buster with no problem. I am going to upgrade this system 
soon, so
if there is something bad with bullseye's kernel I would love to learn 
about

it :)


You may search https://bugs.debian.org for known issues.

If it is really a software issue rather than a hardware one I would try 
at least bookworm-backports kernel package. Further steps may be git 
bisect game with custom builds of vanilla kernel. It would be tedious 
since 4 hours is required for each iteration.


 From my point of view some failure of USB to SATA converter is more 
probable.


And if its not a startech, probable. I have several startech's in 
service for years. And have NOT had to replace any of them.  Ignore that 
faint knocking on wood sound. :o)>


Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Charles Curley]

On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 12:30:46 -0700
Steve Sobol  wrote:

> I already get a ton of legitimate mail from the debian-user mailing 
> list. Don't need the off-topic crap.

Concur.

> 
> Admins, could you please get rid of the people who are contributing
> to the noise?

Or at least make them aware of their rudeness.

Thank you.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Steve Sobol]

On 2024-03-15 22:58, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 15.03.2024 um 18:16:50 Uhr schrieb Jeffrey Walton:


Fascinating reading here:
.



What the hell?

I already get a ton of legitimate mail from the debian-user mailing 
list. Don't need the off-topic crap.


Admins, could you please get rid of the people who are contributing to 
the noise?

Re: Debugging an USB array issue

[Max Nikulin]

On 16/03/2024 00:45, Marc SCHAEFER wrote:

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 01:30:08PM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:

I have never had long-term happiness with multiple disks
connected via USB.


However: I have a similar disk array running 24h/24h for the last three years
on a Debian buster with no problem. I am going to upgrade this system soon, so
if there is something bad with bullseye's kernel I would love to learn about
it :)


You may search https://bugs.debian.org for known issues.

If it is really a software issue rather than a hardware one I would try 
at least bookworm-backports kernel package. Further steps may be git 
bisect game with custom builds of vanilla kernel. It would be tedious 
since 4 hours is required for each iteration.


From my point of view some failure of USB to SATA converter is more 
probable.

Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Curt wrote:
> as I believe Paul Valéry once noted, even the past isn't what it used
> to be.

That's why i want everything back exactly the way as it never was.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Curt]

On 2024-03-16, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
>
> Meanwhile the future is past and the pundits of the 70s are dead and
> ridiculed.

Yes, as I believe Paul Valéry once noted, even the past isn't what it used to 
be.

> Predictions are difficult - especially when it's about the future.
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>


-- 

Re: Ethernet not working on a Dell notebook

[Max Nikulin]

On 16/03/2024 16:18, fran...@libero.it wrote:


root@debian:/home/frantal# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.


OK, so all devices are under control of NetworkManager and there is no 
modification of its global configuration.



root@debian:/home/frantal# lspci
13:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. 
RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 03)


In https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/uspugc$u42$1...@ciao.gmane.io I 
asked for


lspci -vnn -s 13:00.0

and if the "firmware-realtek" package is installed

https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/ut0d7u$o4o$1...@ciao.gmane.io

What is the reason to install r8168 and what is its origin? r8168-dkms? 
From realtek site directly?


Have you tried kernel installed from bookworm-backports?

I hope the following should provide informative log for a suitable time 
frame.


- Unplug ethernet cable
- Start journalctl as root (e.g. "sudo -i" at first)
  journalctl -o short-precise -f | tee /tmp/cable.log
- Plug in the cable
- Wait ~15 seconds
- Kill the process by [Ctrl+C]

If unrelated system activity happened at this moment then it is better 
to repeat. The result should be saved to /tmp/cable.log (or another file 
you like).


P.S. The "reply to list" button on the mail list archive pages should 
properly set In-Reply-To message headers to keep discussion within a 
thread. Does your mailer support it?

End this thread now, please. [WAS Re: Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

People,

Please end the thread at this point. Thank you.

As Andy Smith points out, I asked politely for this thread to cease
a while ago because it would degenerate to more heat than light.
I was wrong - it degenerated to futility.

Please remember the FAQ: remember the Code of Conduct and the ways
to keep this list useful.

In a similar way to dealing with spam: stop replying when there's 
nothing constructive to add. If you think people are trolling,
don't spend ages discussing it, necessarily, because that will
encourage the thread to continue. Move to the next topic.

Any and all of you may think that this is political correctness
gone mad / censorship or whatever. Changing terminology is 
inevitable over time: making meanings clear (while at the same
time avoiding being potentially offensive) is a useful purpose
in itself.

Nobody is forcing an attitude change on every individual in
the Debian community but the continued ask is for people
to be constructive in dealing with each other. That's my
purpose in asking for this thread to stop - now.

With every good wish

Andrew Cater
[For the Debian Community Team] 

Ethernet not working on a Dell notebook

[frantal]

root@debian:/home/frantal# cat /proc/cmdline
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1.0-18-amd64 
root=UUID=34ae470f-b795-4ac5-af94-6419651c910b ro quiet splash

 

Ethernet not working on a Dell notebook

[frantal]

Hi, this morning I had to give 3 times the command  before etehernet begun to 
work.

Here the commands I read need to hel me:

root@debian:/home/frantal# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.
 
IDX LINK TYPE OPERATIONAL SETUP
1 lo loopback - unmanaged
2 enp19s0 ether - unmanaged
3 wlp18s0b1 wlan - unmanaged
 
3 links listed.
root@debian:/home/frantal# nmcli device
DEVICE TYPE STATE CONNECTION
enp19s0 ethernet collegato Connessione via cavo 1
lo loopback connected (externally) lo
wlp18s0b1 wifi non disponibile --
root@debian:/home/frantal# nmcli connection
NAME UUID TYPE DEVICE
Connessione via cavo 1 d36996bd-069b-3f63-a9e8-cfd8f5d1b9c7 ethernet enp19s0
lo 2f8dd1ba-c6d8-4824-bc4b-430264ae8005 loopback lo
TIM-21837165 999877e2-7f2b-44c1-b357-be0e458efdf1 wifi --
root@debian:/home/frantal# /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --print-config
# NetworkManager configuration: /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf (lib: 
no-mac-addr-change.conf)
 
[main]
# rc-manager=
# auth-polkit=true
# dhcp=internal
# iwd-config-path=
plugins=ifupdown,keyfile
configure-and-quit=no
 
[ifupdown]
managed=false
 
[logging]
# backend=journal
# audit=true
 
[device]
# wifi.backend=wpa_supplicant
 
[device-31-mac-addr-change]
match-device=driver:eagle_sdio,driver:wl
wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no
root@debian:/home/frantal# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor DRAM Controller (rev 12)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor PCI Express x16 Root Port 
(rev 12)
00:16.0 Communication controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series 
Chipset HECI Controller (rev 06)
00:1a.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset USB2 
Enhanced Host Controller (rev 06)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset High 
Definition Audio (rev 06)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express 
Root Port 1 (rev 06)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express 
Root Port 2 (rev 06)
00:1c.2 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express 
Root Port 3 (rev 06)
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express 
Root Port 4 (rev 06)
00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset PCI Express 
Root Port 5 (rev 06)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset USB2 
Enhanced Host Controller (rev 06)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev a6)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation HM57 Chipset LPC Interface Controller 
(rev 06)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset 6 port 
SATA AHCI Controller (rev 06)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset SMBus Controller 
(rev 06)
00:1f.6 Signal processing controller: Intel Corporation 5 Series/3400 Series 
Chipset Thermal Subsystem (rev 06)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT216M [GeForce GT 330M] 
(rev a2)
01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GT216 HDMI Audio Controller (rev a1)
12:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43224 
802.11a/b/g/n (rev 01)
13:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168/8411 
PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 03)
14:00.0 SD Host controller: Ricoh Co Ltd MMC/SD Host Controller (rev 01)
14:00.1 System peripheral: Ricoh Co Ltd R5U2xx (R5U230 / R5U231 / R5U241) 
[Memory Stick Host Controller] (rev 01)
14:00.3 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Ricoh Co Ltd R5C832 PCIe IEEE 1394 Controller 
(rev 01)
ff:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QuickPath Architecture 
Generic Non-core Registers (rev 02)
ff:00.1 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QuickPath Architecture 
System Address Decoder (rev 02)
ff:02.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Core Processor QPI Link 0 (rev 02)
ff:02.1 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 1st Generation Core i3/5/7 Processor QPI 
Physical 0 (rev 02)
ff:02.2 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 1st Generation Core i3/5/7 Processor 
Reserved (rev 02)
ff:02.3 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 1st Generation Core i3/5/7 Processor 
Reserved (rev 02)
# no-auto-default file "/var/lib/NetworkManager/no-auto-default.state"
 

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Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

when i was a young Babyboomer in the late 1970s we were accused of
destroying society by a "twin culture of sexual license and cannabis".
The big Decline of the West was a sure thing, accelerated by excessive
tv consumption.
Other future threats were drying up oil wells, a comming ice age,
and the unstoppable fertility of the asian peoples.

Meanwhile the future is past and the pundits of the 70s are dead and
ridiculed.
Predictions are difficult - especially when it's about the future.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Geert Stappers]

On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 06:58:55AM +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 15.03.2024 um 18:16:50 Uhr schrieb Jeffrey Walton:
> 
> > Fascinating reading here:
> > .
> > It completely explains why GenZ are having so many problems with
> > adulthood. Smartphones and Social Media are the culprits.
> 
> I am from Gen Z and I can't understand why a smartphone should be
> guilty here. It might be a device that is part of the problem like
> alcohol can be when used wrong.

Yes, it took a long time to understand what
different quantaties of alcohol do to a human.

Meanwhile there are signs that "screen time" has a damaging effect.
It is reason we have this email thread.

 
> > The problem was not limited to the U.S.: Similar patterns emerged
> > around the same time in Canada, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand,
> > the Nordic countries, and beyond. By a variety of measures and in a
> > variety of countries, the members of Generation Z (born in and after
> > 1996) are suffering from anxiety, depression, self-harm, and related
> > disorders at levels higher than any other generation for which we
> > have data.
> 
> I can understand anxiety (oncoming war, economy problems), but not the
> rest.
> From school I remember many people who followed the words "Why do we
> learn? We will die because of climate change anyway".
> 
> > The decline in mental health is just one of many signs that
> > something went awry. Loneliness and friendlessness among American
> > teens began to surge around 2012. Academic achievement went down,
> > too. According to “The Nation’s Report Card,” scores in reading and
> > math began to decline for U.S. students after 2012, reversing decades
> > of slow but generally steady increase. PISA, the major international
> > measure of educational trends, shows that declines in math, reading,
> > and science happened globally, also beginning in the early 2010s.
> 
> I know many people in school who really asked why they should learn
> that because they never gonna need that.

I hope the answer was: It needs training to master a skill, so train.


> I was the misfit because I did mostly computer-related stuff in my free
> time (not gaming), but at the end it definitely was and is still worth
> it.

It was training that brought the success.
Surely NOT the "It is OK that I'm a misfit".

 

Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: OT: End the Phone-Based Childhood Now

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 8:04 PM Emanuel Berg  wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Walton wrote:
>
> > So the problem with GenZ seems to be how they are growing up
> > and what they are spending their time on; and not their job
> > (they are teens!)
>
> They need other things to do that appeal to them more than
> smartphone idling. If such things existed, they would go
> for them, I'm confident.
>
> But it is also how things are presented, what mental picture
> they have, which is often incorrect. Today almost all
> activities, even pretty mundane things that were once thought
> of as relaxing and potentially inclusive to a whole bunch of
> people, are presented as elitist pursuits for the select few.
>
> They think, for example, "Martial arts seems like a lot of
> fun, but it is nothing for me, everyone who does it are great
> athletes and clearly I'm not." while in reality it is "_A lot_
> of people who does it are great athletes - and the reason why
> is because they do it". These kids only need to show up, but
> sadly, a lot of them don't, ever.
>
> So it is a vicious circle, the more they think they have to be
> brilliant to do anything the less confident they become from
> doing nothing.
>
> > and not society around them (which they withdraw from).
>
> Society pushed them away just as much.

I've got a feeling you did not read the article.

Jeff