Re: mutt alternates command
On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 12:53:05AM +, Simon Huggins wrote: > On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 08:39:24AM +0800, Robert Vangel wrote: > > Mike M wrote: > > >2. What's the proper way to read /usr/share/doc/mutt/NEWS.Debian.gz? > > > I used: > > > # cd /usr/share/doc/mutt/ > > > # gunzip NEWS.Debian.gz > > > # vi NEWS.Debian > > > > > > It worked but it seems there should be some sort of tool. > > Whenever I have things like that, I use > > gzip -dc |less > > Would be good if there was a gzless which automatically does it, or > > `less --gzip ' or something similar. > > It's called zless and is installed by gzip. That worked. > > It's just a shell script which uses LESSOPEN. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mutt alternates command
Hi, I just switched from mutt 1.3 on woody to 1.5 on Sid. I bumped into the change from set alternates="foo | bar" to alternates "foo | bar" described in this thread: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/06/msg00150.html (ooh, highlighting on the links :-) The change fixed the problem. Two questions resulted with no satisfying Googles: 1. _Why_ was the changed needed/supplied? I found some bug report but I couldn't understand it. 2. What's the proper way to read /usr/share/doc/mutt/NEWS.Debian.gz? I used: # cd /usr/share/doc/mutt/ # gunzip NEWS.Debian.gz # vi NEWS.Debian It worked but it seems there should be some sort of tool. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: simple question
On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 07:14:04AM +1100, Sam Watkins wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 08:57:14PM +0100, Paul Akkermans wrote: > > Can somebody tell me what a kernel_lock() is? > > I suggest try a list that knows about the kernel! Capable of subscribing to debian-user but clueless about Google - I don't know what to make of it. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spin lock
On Wed, Dec 15, 2004 at 03:43:26PM +0100, Paul Akkermans wrote: > Hi all, > > Can someody tell me what a spin lock is? Google it. It's a tool for managing shared resources amoungst independent processes. You might want continue this discussion on kernelnewbies http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian on a sun enterprise 250
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 02:48:17PM -0600, james derry wrote: > i've recently taken over sysadmin duties for a sun enterprise 250 running > debian. the 250's has frontpanels LEDs, and one on this machine, the general > fault LED, burns constant yellow. online documentation for the hardware at > http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/General/LEDs/E250_LEDs.html says: Sounds like a good question for debian-sparc. http://lists.debian.org/debian-sparc/ -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help! Problems installing a new debian 3.0 woody
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 07:36:35AM -0600, Kent West wrote: > > Are both of these using the 2.2 kernel? I _think_ you can specify "bf24" > to get a 2.4 kernel, which might help considerably. That's correct. 2.4.18. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help! Problems installing a new debian 3.0 woody
On Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 12:49:32PM +0100, Katrien de Vos wrote: > The system started windows and > got trouble (endless restarts). I fixed the windows-system by using F8 > and went into the safe mode. This solved (luckily) my windows-problem. > In stead of the SHIFT-key I had to use F8 . Are you making a dual boot system? Did you re-partition the HDD? What partitioning tool did you use? > 1. Configuring PCMIA: I entered this list, marked the entry, but the > system didn't react on pressing any key (in windows one would say it > hanged. I found de Ctrl Alt Delete the only way out. So I skipped this > part in the next installation.. > 2. My network-interface card was not recognized. Trying to choose the > Realtek RTL8139 from a list didn't help. I was asked for options, but I > don't know what is needed. (I have a Sweex 32 bit; compatible to Realtek > RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC. I like to use Knoppix to quickly assess a computer. From it you can learn what type of NIC driver is chooses. It also has qtparted on it which is a nice disk partitioning tool. An earlier suggestion pointed to the Sarge installer. Is the Sarge installer on the 4-disk Woody set? I would bet it is not on the disks. If you are making a dual boot machine, then you need to choose your bootloader: LILO or GRUB. I recommend GRUB and I'll happily post or transmit my bootable GRUB ISO image. I learned (from this list) that GRUB is _the_ way to go. The extra effort pays off. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remote build of Debian router
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 11:59:38AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Tuesday 30 November 2004 11:56 am, Mike M wrote: > > > If risk is manageable then I choose a). If not, then b) or c) father > > buys router/firewall appliance. > > Finagle's Law dictates that A will inevitably lead to B. That's a tough > call, good luck! B-) Noted. Agreed. Proceeding. This should be fun. The timed revert on f/w rules sounds useful. Thanks all. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remote build of Debian router
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 11:19:04AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Tuesday 30 November 2004 10:59 am, Mike M wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 02:01:17PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > On Monday 29 November 2004 1:04 pm, Mike M wrote: > > > > > > > 1) connect Deb box to cable modem > > > > 2) ssh to Deb box to test access > > > > 3) have father install 2nd NIC on Deb box > > > > 4) using ssh, install iptables and configure iptables on Deb box > > > > > > That'll work, but you might want to install ipmasq and get your > > > DHCPD of choice running on the 2nd NIC. > > > > I didn't compile the kernel to support iptables or netfilter. > > netfilter is absolutely mandatory for ip masquerading, there is no way > around it. Yep. Now, how to get it in. a) ssh over Internet to unprotected box and recompile kernel and play with config b) drive 6h to get box; install behind my f/w; fix it; drive 6h to put box back If risk is manageable then I choose a). If not, then b) or c) father buys router/firewall appliance. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remote build of Debian router
On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 02:01:17PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Monday 29 November 2004 1:04 pm, Mike M wrote: > > > 1) connect Deb box to cable modem > > 2) ssh to Deb box to test access > > 3) have father install 2nd NIC on Deb box > > 4) using ssh, install iptables and configure iptables on Deb box > > That'll work, but you might want to install ipmasq and get your DHCPD of > choice running on the 2nd NIC. I didn't compile the kernel to support iptables or netfilter. If I shut down Samba and CUPS and leave sshd running would the machine be safe from meddlers? > If the machine has any real size hard > drive, you might also consider getting squid and adzapper and play with > impasq's rules to automatically set up a transparent, caching, > ad-blocking web proxy (be sure to make this only listen to the > not-internet-connected NIC, too). Good stuff. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: remote build of Debian router
On Mon, Nov 29, 2004 at 03:29:34PM -0500, David Mandelberg wrote: > Mike M wrote: > > 1) connect Deb box to cable modem > > 2) ssh to Deb box to test access > > 3) have father install 2nd NIC on Deb box > > 4) using ssh, install iptables and configure iptables on Deb box > That would work, but one problem is that when testing firewall rulesets > (especially if you've never done this before) it's relatively easy lock > yourself out. I would fit the profile described :-). > Also, there should be a firewall on the box before it's > ever connected to the net. Chicken/egg dilemma here? Any suggestions? -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
remote build of Debian router
Hi, Yesterday I built a Debian stable file server for my father assuming he had a router/switch with a DHCP server on it. Today I learned that he does not have a router - only a switch. I want to try making the Debian box into a router remotely. Would this work? 1) connect Deb box to cable modem 2) ssh to Deb box to test access 3) have father install 2nd NIC on Deb box 4) using ssh, install iptables and configure iptables on Deb box -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Burning Fedora CD's
On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 09:53:34PM -0200, Eriberto wrote: > Is the burnning installed on hdc? Is Debian the SO? Try it: > > 1) insert ide-scsi in /etc/modules file; > 2) insert ide-scsi=hdc in /boot/grub/menu.lst, in end of line > initialized with kernel. Here are my notes: CD Recording --- apt-get install cdrecord apt-get install cdrtools-doc compile kernel for SCSI emulation on IDE drive (can't recall exactly what was needed; crud, my notes are flawed) modify /boot/grub/menu.lst: title Debian GNU/Linux 2.4.26-SCSI-USB root (hd0,5) kernel /boot/bzImage-2.4.26test root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-scsi edison:/usr/src/linux# vi -R /usr/share/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI.setup edison:/usr/src/linux# cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a34 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2004 J�rg Schilling NOTE: this version of cdrecord is an inofficial (modified) release of cdrecord and thus may have bugs that are not present in the original version. Please send bug reports and support requests to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. The original author should not be bothered with problems of this version. Linux sg driver version: 3.1.25 Using libscg version 'schily-0.8'. scsibus0: 0,0,0 0) 'TOSHIBA ' 'DVD-ROM SD-R2412' '1015' Removable CD-ROM 0,1,0 1) * 0,2,0 2) * 0,3,0 3) * 0,4,0 4) * 0,5,0 5) * 0,6,0 6) * 0,7,0 7) * cdrecord -eject dev=0,0,0 edison:/usr/src/linux# cdrecord -v -pad dev=0,0,0 yarrow-i386-disc3.iso Had problems "fixating" when I had bad CDROM media (coasters). TO MOUNT /mnt/cdrom: # mount -t iso9660 /dev/scd0 /mnt/cdrom Try this: # cd /dev # rm cdrom # ln -s cdrom scd0 (see if mounting cdrom and cdrecrd and booting Knoppix still work; if they do, then mounting the cdrom goes back to the well known form: mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom) > > Regards, > > Eriberto > > PS: it thinks about moving for debian. > > Shawn McCuan escreveu: > > >What do I have to do to get cd burning enabled on my system? The > >burning programs arent detecting that I even have a burnerwhat > >should I do? > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mass bug reports for packages with GFDL documentation?
On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 06:26:53PM +, Adam Funk wrote: > On Wednesday 24 November 2004 14:20, John Hasler wrote: > > > Adam writes: > >> What is the problem with the GFDL? > > > > It does not comply with the DFSG and it has been decided that > > documentation > > is software (please don't start a flamewar about this. I don't agree > > with it either, but it is settled). > > I don't want a flamewar either. I was peripherally aware of the dispute. I did not know it went back as far as 2001. It seems to have grown from a war of words to a war of actions. > > >> Are the Debian developers seriously proposing to get rid of all those > >> packages in the long run? > > > > They will be replaced with Free versions, moved to Non-Free, or > > removed. > > > > This will not affect Sarge. > > What about the practical implications? How can you have a GNU/Linux > distribution without gcc, make and especially coreutils? I could not support a distribution with gcc as non-free or removed. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: XFree86 and USB Mouse & Keyboard ---> Frustrating!
On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 01:40:49PM +0100, Thomas Otto wrote: > > it seems not to be an mouse problem... try : # cat /dev/input/mice When you move the USB mouse you should see: (�(�(�(�8��(�8��88�8��8��8��8��8��8��8��88�(��8�� Look for your mouse and keybord in /proc/bus/usb/devices. > |I believe the USB keyboard and USB mouse are > configured > |>wrong. However, I do NOT know how to properly configure them. Can please > get > |>some help. I use Sid on a 12 month old Toshiba laptop: Relevant sections of /etc/X11/XF86Config-4: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "keyboard" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "pc101" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" # Option "CorePointer" Option "Device""/dev/psaux" Option "SendCoreEvents""true" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "USB Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "Device""/dev/input/mice" Option "CorePointer" # Option "SendCoreEvents""true" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Buttons" "5" EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" Screen "Default Screen" InputDevice "Generic Keyboard" InputDevice "USB Mouse" InputDevice "Configured Mouse" # InputDevice "Generic Mouse" EndSection -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
bug=281601, sed borked on sid upgrade
Hi, Sorry for starting a new thread. I was unsubscribed until a few minutes ago. Found this: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=281601 What do these comments from the linked bug discussion mean? 1) ...wait for the i386 buildd admin to upload it. 2) Just wait for the autobuilder. How long would one expect to wait? Thanks, -- Michael Mueller -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thinkpad 600E and usb mouse
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 09:10:53PM -0400, Bernard Fay wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I have a Logitech MX700 usb mouse attached to my thinkpad but I can't > get it to work. > > I thought that the module usbhid and usbmouse would have been enough but > no that doesn't make it work. > > Do I need a cheese.ko to get it to work or what? > > Any advise? I did the following on Toshiba laptop with Logitech Marble Trackball: USB Human Interface (Mouse/Keyboard - 1) ref. http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html 2) configure kernel for HID in USB section; built in to kernel ensure the following are set: # Input core support CONFIG_INPUT=y CONFIG_INPUT_KEYBDEV=y CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV=y CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV_SCREEN_X=1024 CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV_SCREEN_Y=768 # USB support CONFIG_USB=y CONFIG_USB_DEVICEFS=y CONFIG_USB_UHCI_ALT=y CONFIG_USB_HID=y CONFIG_USB_HIDINPUT=y 3) load new kernel 4) check that /proc/bus/usb/devices shows plugged in USB devices 5) cat /dev/input/mice ensure that when the mouse is moved there is lots of chars printed to the screen 6) ensure the USB mouse is configured (see XF86Config-4 in appendix) 7) keyboard on USB port should just work 8) mousepad and keyboard on laptop should work simultaneously with the external mouse and keyboard > > Thanks, > Bernard > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SCHED_FIFO, libc, Debian
Is SCHED_FIFO on Woody working? Is SCHED_FIFO a function of the kernel and libc together? Any enlightenment would be appreciated. I've got an app that runs SCHED_FIFO with max priority. I googled around and found some audio folks picking at the SCHED_FIFO thing. My Woody system is acting like the SCHED_FIFO is not really working. On another distro, the SCHED_FIFO does seem to work. On a Woody box with a 2.4.16 from kernel.org, when I run the app (myapplicationhere) and the run "ps axeo rtprio,pri,pid,fname", the PRI is RTPRIO PRI PID COMMAND - 31 1 init - 30 2 keventd - 20 3 ksoftirq - 30 4 kswapd - 30 5 bdflush - 30 6 kupdated - 3094 portmap - 30 100 rpciod - 30 101 lockd - 30 152 syslogd - 30 155 klogd - 30 160 rpc.stat - 30 167 inetd - 30 174 sshd - 30 177 atd - 30 180 cron - 30 183 getty - 30 184 getty - 30 185 getty - 30 186 getty - 30 187 getty - 30 188 getty - 28 707 sshd - 26 709 bash - 25 834 myapplicationhere - 21 869 ps On another distro with a 2.4.22 that is patch for NPTL, running the same app (compiled under this distro) I get: RTPRIO PRI PID COMMAND 0 23 1 init 0 23 2 keventd 0 24 3 kapmd 0 5 4 ksoftirq 0 14 6 bdflush 0 24 5 kswapd 0 24 7 kupdated 0 18 8 mdrecove 0 2412 kjournal 0 2467 khubd 0 23 1051 kjournal 0 23 1380 syslogd 0 23 1384 klogd 0 23 1410 portmap 0 21 1429 rpc.stat 0 24 1474 rpciod 0 22 1475 lockd 0 23 1487 apmd 0 22 1525 smartd 0 23 1538 sshd 0 23 1552 xinetd 0 23 1572 sendmail 0 23 1581 sendmail 0 23 1595 crond 0 23 1612 atd 0 21 1621 mingetty 0 21 1622 mingetty 0 21 1623 mingetty 0 21 1624 mingetty 0 21 1625 mingetty 0 20 1626 mingetty 0 24 7631 sshd 0 24 7633 bash 0 23 8538 tail 99 139 8912 myapplicationhere 0 23 8947 ps I recognize the 99 as the reported max priority value. Thanks, -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
details pls: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
Following up this: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/05/msg00612.html I was wondering what this magic is doing: # echo 'APT::Cache-Limit "25165824";' >> /etc/apt/apt.conf which works for me, BTW. I have 512MB RAM. I loaded Woody and was updating as part of the process of upgrading to testing then to unstable. How'd you get the number? Where is the problem? Testing? It seems so because removing testing and unstable references from the sources.list avoids the problem. Opening up only testing finds the problem. What is the problem? I know there's not enough memory allocated. More details would be interesting (I think). Oddly, the solution to the problem is well covered in cached email and the APT HOWTO: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-erros.en.html#s-erros-comuns What is not covered are the questions above. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot with lilo
On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 03:40:01PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:02, Mike M wrote: > > Thanks for posting your instructions. Now I know where to look for them. The mkisofs is a thing of wonder. The man page is huge and full of mystical concepts. I am not qualified to expound on its use. Nevertheless, I feel I should more fully qualify that I put the .iso into a new directory and cd'd to the dir before running mkisofs. > BTW, I think that the new debian-installer (for sid/unstable) > comes with grub as default - which might make new SID install CDs > particularly valuable as a rescue CD. Here's hopin. That answers a question that was brewing in my head, "Why does Woody still use lilo when grub is the gnu way of the future?" I presume the answer to be, "Woody is stable and grub is not stable." The gnu grub site indicates this clearly by stating the grub (known as legacy grub) is deprecated, and grub2 is available from CVS only. That's a pretty good description of "not stable" IMO. grub2 would not complete the configure operation on a Woody workstation because of a library that was missing or outdated (LZO IIRC). The whole situation with grub really helps me understand how Debian uses the word "stable" in a precise and technical manner. Conversationally, "unstable" is often equivalent to "undesirable". The grub experience demonstrates that the meaning of these two words must be kept independent. Here's where I'm heading: stable: servers SID: workstation/laptop > > You might also want to check out one or more of these debian > packages (at least available in unstable/sid) - debian is just > cool for tech-heads: > > dfsbuild > grubconf > debootstrap > cdebootstrap > mkrboot > nfsbooted (one day when I've got time :) On this list when you ask a question you get six projects. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot with lilo
On Tue, Jun 08, 2004 at 08:33:32PM -0400, Mike M wrote: > On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 09:21:37AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 08:46, Mike M wrote: > > > I have a laptop that I am trying to dual boot. > > > > should be easy :) > > > > Step 1: create a GRUB boot disk. > > Step 2: learn to boot from your grub boot disk. > > Step 3: boot from your grub boot disk. > > > > It will save your life (well, at least your sanity). It can be used to > > boot any kernel installed anywhere on your hard disk, and also to > > chainload an alternate partition. > > > > Did I mention GRUB will save your life? > > Well. Since you put it that way, I'm going to give it a try. It worked! > > > > > > install grub on a floppy (perhaps it can be installed onto a bootable CD > > if you don't have a floppy drive, if so, that will be just as useful). > > CD, no floppy A bit of a pain to make a bootable grub CD. Here's an outline: 1. get legacy grub from gnu.org using cvs $ export CVS_RSH="ssh" $ cvs -z3 -d:ext:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/grub co grub 2. configure and make $ cd grub $ ./configure /* lot's of options; see --help; I used no options */ $ make $ ls 3. create boot floppy Note: luckily I have a desktop Linux box with /dev/fd0 $ su - # cd /home/user/grub/stage1 insert floppy # fdformat /dev/fd0 /* important; I seem to have lots of bad media */ # dd if=stage1 of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 count=1 # cd ../stage2 # dd if=stage2 of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 seek=1 4. create file image of floppy # dd if=/dev/fd0 of=boot.img bs=10k count=144 5. create bootable ISO form floppy image # mkisofs -r -b grubboot.img -c boot.cat -o grubboot.iso ./ 6. create CD using grubboot.iso This information was compiled from the following sources: - http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/ http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue64/kohli.html http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140074&highlight=grub > > > > Booting off a floppy or CD, with grub, is an excellent experience that > > knowing it will save you digital life one day (and by the sound of it, > > that day might be today :). Another layer of magic peeled back. More _power_. I was able to boot OSs in both the ntfs and ext2 partitions. The Woody install continued on its merry way. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot with lilo
On Tue, Jun 08, 2004 at 04:47:35PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote: > > hi ya Mike hey > > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 08:46, Mike M wrote: > > > > I have the following partitions shown with qtparted > > > under a Knoppix boot: > > > > > > 01 /dev/hda1 ntfs active 20GB > > > 02 /dev/hda2 fat32 2GB > > > 03 /dev/hda3 extended 33GB > > > 04 /dev/hda5 linux-swap1GB > > > 05 /dev/hda6 ext2 15MB // for /boot > > boot is NOT in the first 1024 cyclinders ... > - your mb and kernels may or may not be able to > get around the 1024 cylinder boundry > ( it won't boot ) That was the worry. Gonna try the grub from CD zen mentioned and keep the MBR intact for the moment. I've been brushing up on MBR refreshing just in case. > > > > 06 /dev/hda7 ext2 33GB // for / Thanks, -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot with lilo
On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 09:21:37AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 08:46, Mike M wrote: > > I have a laptop that I am trying to dual boot. > > should be easy :) > > Step 1: create a GRUB boot disk. > Step 2: learn to boot from your grub boot disk. > Step 3: boot from your grub boot disk. > > It will save your life (well, at least your sanity). It can be used to > boot any kernel installed anywhere on your hard disk, and also to > chainload an alternate partition. > > Did I mention GRUB will save your life? Well. Since you put it that way, I'm going to give it a try. > > > install grub on a floppy (perhaps it can be installed onto a bootable CD > if you don't have a floppy drive, if so, that will be just as useful). CD, no floppy > > Booting off a floppy or CD, with grub, is an excellent experience that > knowing it will save you digital life one day (and by the sound of it, > that day might be today :). Trying to avoid it like taxes. > > > The ntfs OS is booting just fine (still) and I'd like > > it to stay that way if possible. I've done my > > backups just in case. > > Three gold stars! It's rare to hear that someone backs up :) Heh. Not hard when you can count the files to backup on fingers and toes. > > Oh, and grub is more flexible - highly recommended. It might even save > your virtual life one day. > > > I could really use some pointers on how to proceed. > > man grub > > :) Got it and thanks. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: high system cpu usage, no culprit in top
On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 09:35:49AM -0600, Justin Guerin wrote: > I am wondering if anyone has seen anything like this. Here's a copy of top: I had the same problem. I eventually figured out my problem when I switched from KMail using mbox to mutt using Maildir. The mbox files were horrendously large. top never fingered KMail as the culprit. HTH. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AMD vs. Intel
On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 12:44:48PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: > Thus I am logically considering chipset and processor. I can hardly > imagine that this is a problem with AMD, but I would like to know > from you success and failure stories of AMD processors and Linux. 4 AMD all runing Debian, 2 of them for over two years now. No problems. They ran RH6.1 in the past. Have 3 others in San Diego that run 24/7 with no problems. Set and forget. This response written on Woody + AMD. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why must Debian call Taiwan a "Province of China"?
On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 11:52:43AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote: > > Anyone with half a brain can see what moronic thing the `Taiwan, > Province of China' is. It's the _only_ `editorial comment' in the > entire list (all other comma-separated entries are simple prefixes which > when used result in each country's full official name; the Taiwan entry > doesn't really fit). > > > There's a solution which angers no one except those who have already > have abused the process: just keep `Taiwan'. > > Debian can even make a standard if they want: editorial comments will be > deleted. Thus in the future, if Israel and Iran get tagged as `Israel, > illegitimate zionist running dogs', and `Iran, dictatorship of evil' > (and given the horse-trading that these standards reflect, I wouldn't > be at all surprised), Debian's course will be clear. What Miles says is the Right Thing. Standards can be abused. There are many standards. With the name "Taiwan" anyone can find the intended land mass on a map of the Earth, and can infer what language setting are to be used. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: VoIP with Debian - bad day ??
On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 01:57:37PM -0800, Alvin Oga wrote: > > my impression .. asterisk more tailored as an (pbx) answering machine ... MG - media gateway MGC - media gateway controller SIP server Small telcos use it for specialty apps. Individuals use it for home PBX (private branch exchange). * takes over the machine with some configurations. Best to use a 1Ghz+ CPU with .5GB RAM. Works 100% with Debian. -- Mike Moving forward in pushing back the envelope of the corporate paradigm. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie to Linux (Debian).
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 09:24:29PM -0700, Lucas Albers wrote: > > Frank J Bivings said: > > I am a complete newbie to Linux (Debian). I thought it would be a > > good way to get around the glut of Windows. > > > > I am having problems with the graphics card. I installed Debian > > Linux 3.0 and, during the install I included XFree86. > > > > Upon booting it I get an error stating that: > > > > "I cannot start the Xserver (your graphical interface > > Perhaps my advice is poor. > But I will give it anyway. > Go install knoppix, it should auto-detect all your hardware. > Then copy the xfree86 config file to your debian install. > I like debian, but I do not reccomend it for newbies installing for > desktop systems. > Or try the testing version of debian, sarge, it autodetects a lot. Agree. Google on "linux live cd". Knoppix or MEPIS. My first attempt with Debian installing failed too. Using something that "just works" like a live-cd version of Linux will really boost your confidence. Debian does things that you'll grow to appreciate. Mucking about with XFree86 on your first time out with Linux is a daunting task indeed. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbies! please check this out -> http://www.aboutdebian.com/
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 08:16:30PM -0500, xucaen wrote: > Today I found an amazing web site! why this is not listed anywhere on the debian.org > web page I can not say but this has more information than I could ever have wished > for! > I urge all newbies to check it out!! A pecadillo: Why Not Debian ? If you're the type who likes to base your operations on the bleeding edge, Debian isn't for you. Debian's focus on providing a stable, reliable operating system across all platforms means it will never be "first to market" with new bells and whistles. They are incorporated into new releases once the bugs have been discovered and worked out. -- Mike When the correction first comes, we tend to underreact. While we do not like the surprise, we tend to think of it as maybe a one-time thing. Things, we believe, will soon get back to normal. We do not scale back our expectations sufficiently. It apparently takes years for this to work itself out. - John Mauldin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DSL problem (possibly OT)
On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 04:16:02PM +0100, Christian Schnobrich wrote: > On Fre, 2004-02-27 at 02:31, Mike M wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 06:06:48PM -0500, Jeff Elkins wrote: > > > > > > - Download speed: 201.000 KBits/sec ( 4 times faster than a 56k modem ) > > > - Upload speed: 227.000 KBits/sec ( 7 times faster than a 56k modem ) > > > > 7x ? > > Yup. Dont forget that the 56k afterburner will only affect downloads; > upstream remains at 36.6 no matter what. Thanks for the edu. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DSL problem (possibly OT)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 06:06:48PM -0500, Jeff Elkins wrote: > > - Download speed: 201.000 KBits/sec ( 4 times faster than a 56k modem ) > - Upload speed: 227.000 KBits/sec ( 7 times faster than a 56k modem ) 7x ? > > I now have to fight my way through crap tech support. I've deal with too many "tech support ops" lately. /. had an article link about tech support ops. It was enlightening. The mantra is "we don't support that". They get paid per call. They have nothing to do with the product or service you bought. My laptop blew a main board. Tech support told me it was my ISP or that I was too stupid to use a computer. When I took it in to a service center, they replaced the main board twice and got it working. Enough venting about so called customer service. Maybe the servers are congested? When I download .iso with wget, I shop around for a lightly loaded server. Maybe this technique will help you isolated your problem. Using the ISP test server is no test of course. Instead, try to wget and iso from several mirrors. Maybe you can coordinate with a friend to wget from the same server at the same time. Then compare notes. On a final note, my DSL service sucked. Broadband on cable is _much_ better. YMMV. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 03:07:53PM -0800, Dave Carrigan wrote:
> Mike, I'm trying to say this in the nicest way, but please stop being
> such a twit. I'm not going to argue with you any more.
That was very nice, thank you. And please do. Good arguments are
hard to come by.
> If you want more
> information, you should look at items 28 and 49 in Meyers' _Effective
> C++_, or take it up with the C++ gurus in comp.lang.C++{,.moderated}.
References that support the namespace feature are abundent. They hide
its problems. Namespace is a sparsely implemented _optional_ feature that
requires a large human re-engineering effort. Next comes the arguement
that one day .h files will no longer be available. I've found evidence
that the day has been postponed for roughly six years now. I doubt
the day will ever come.
I am not about to go for a bitch-slapping in a language forum. I'm a
blue-collar programmer barely getting by on his wits - or twits as the
case may be. Besides, I'd be spotted instantly as a noob trying to
pick a fight. I might put it on my todo list though.
> As a final note, namespaces are here to stay whether you like it or not,
> so you may want to spend your time finding another windmill to tilt at.
Namespace is here to stay as an optional feature in compiler space.
What's in standards space is less authoritative if all compilers and
all people are not using the standard. You may not like .h files in C++
code, but they work and they always will because the standards committee can't
change all the compilers and they can't change all the programmers.
This is hardly a quixotic issue. It is a practical issue that affects
my work and those working on mozilla projects. That's why I've spent
effort on this thread. I drank the C++ standards kool-aid and learned
STL and namespace only to have code returned as unsupportable
It seems that STL knowledgable programmers are too sparsely distributed
to make STL an acceptable tool.
My position is this: I can't use STL, and namespace mostly supports STL, so
I don't need namespace. Header files sans .h extensions supports namespace,
and since I don't need namespace, I can use .h files if I want to. I
don't have to worry about .h files going away (see argument above).
I am happy to let the topic rest, or argue more. I think it's interesting
and I'm doing my best to present arguments based on research and thought.
--
Mike
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Re: GCC
On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 09:40:07PM +0100, John L Fjellstad wrote: > The old will still be available in the C++ standard, but the > functions and variables won't be in the std namespace. I really must read up more on the namespace feature and why I'd want to change the standard namespace. Googling around I find a 1998 email that reports pre-standard C++ will soon die. In 2004 I see the Mozilla coding standard recommend against using the namespace feature because it is not implemented well on all C++ compilers that they use. Six years have past and the standard C++ is still not embedded where it counts - in the compilers. A standards committee out of touch with the compiler makers? Compiler writers can't sell new copies of the compiler based on the usefulness of namespace. Users won't upgrade because the namespace feature is not worth the upgrade cost. GNU glosses over the .h issue by creating a sans .h wrapper file for the .h file. As far as I can tell, we have to stop using the .h files so we can use a feature that we probably don't need and may not even be supported in our compiler. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:12:04PM -0600, Alan Shutko wrote: > Mike M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I was unaware too until someone in this thread posted that stdlib.h is out > > and cstdlib is in. > > Only in C++ code that uses the C standard library. OK. At least the creative verve is contained to the C++ world. > > > A decade of C++ becomes deprecated? How can this be? > > A standards committee run amok. Indeed. I'll be paying _much_ closer attention to compiler versions that I use. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 05:16:53PM -0600, Alan Shutko wrote: > Mike M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > C++ seems to be steaming away in this direction. I've got my doubts > > that the .h is going away in C however. > > As far as I know, nobody has proposed that the C header files change > in this way. I was unaware too until someone in this thread posted that stdlib.h is out and cstdlib is in. > > > It seems that this is going to cause more portability problems than > > it solves. Code written for advanced compilers will be incompatible > > with older compilers. > > This has been a problem of C++ for at least a decade. But at least > it looks like it's finally getting better now that the standard is > standardized and compilers catch up. A decade of C++ becomes deprecated? How can this be? I argue that it cannot from a practical point of view. The body of existing work is too large to allow drastic change. On the one hand we have a standards committee and eager-to-please compiler maintainers creating features and requiring us to change existing code to adapt to the new features. On the other hand we have consumers that require our code to compile with their compiler that may not support the new feature. As a result, code is filled with #ifdef statements. Ironically, I've just been introduced to a client's coding standard that takes a dim view of #ifdef statements. They think such statements make the code too difficult to maintain. I think they just don't have many portability issues to deal with. I am not opposed to new features in C++ as long as they are not mandatory. If the new features are mandatory, then rename the language to C+++ so there'll be no confusion. Back to the case in point - header files. Why the change? To support the namespace feature? A project as well-known as Mozilla says to not use namespace because it's not portable. This is in direct conflict with the advice that adhereing to standards makes you portable. Rather, it seems, what makes you portable is knowledge of how the world really works and copious testing. I've worked in telecom for many years and from that I know that when a system becomes very large, you can no longer change the standards on which it is based. The costs are too great. The new must adapt to the old. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Access to ttyS0 and ttyS1 confusion
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 04:23:35PM -0600, Mark Gillingham wrote: > When I issue a setserial or statserial command on ttyS0 or ttyS1, both > internal ports, the commands hang and I just ^C out. The commands on > ttyS2 and ttyS3 behave normally. Since I mostly ignore the internal > serial ports when I installed, I bet I missed something. Something > might be amiss in BIOS too, but I'm not sure where to look. I know how > to get to the BIOS settings, but I'm not too sure about what I'm seeing > when I get there. Any ideas appreciated. Is tis a laptop by any chance? Do you have a winmodem at COM1. Anything else suspicious at COM2? -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 08:55:00AM +, Dave Thorn wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 11:51:31AM -0500, Mike M wrote: > > > > impose such a change. Compilers that remove .h files or complain about > > deprecated .h files will be ignored. > > gcc does this. > > warning: #warning This file includes at least one deprecated or > antiquated header. Please consider using one of the 32 headers found in > section 17.4.1.2 of the C++ standard. Examples include substituting the > header for the header for C++ includes, or instead > of the deprecated header . To disable this warning use > -Wno-deprecated. > > gcc (GCC) 3.2.3 20030422 (Gentoo Linux 1.4 3.2.3-r3, propolice) C++ seems to be steaming away in this direction. I've got my doubts that the .h is going away in C however. You're using a pretty new compiler there. It seems that this is going to cause more portability problems than it solves. Code written for advanced compilers will be incompatible with older compilers. In my little corner of the world I;ve been told to recode C++ for C. I've had my share of porting code between different versions of gcc and g++ and seen more than a few compatibility issues which always get resolved by satisfying the oldest compiler. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:58:38AM -0500, Ed Cogburn wrote: > Mike M wrote: > >On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 10:55:36PM -0500, Roberto Sanchez wrote: > > > >Got here late. Didn't see thread. Use g++ instead of gcc. The .h is > >optional with g++ 2.95.4 and g++ 3.0.4. Compiling with -Wall didn't > >generate a warning when iostream.h was used. IIRC I did see a nastygram > >about .h being deprecated, but I didn't see it on the following: > > > I don't know if .h is officially deprecated now, but it probably will be in > the future at some point. Referring to C++ headers without the .h is part > of the C++ "standard" now (mentioned in my reference book on standard C++). > The intent is to visually separate the old C headers from the new C++ ones. > For the old headers you still use .h, but for the C++ headers you don't. I'd like to see them try and deprecate .h files. There's just too much code out there using .h files. I would be economically wasteful to impose such a change. Compilers that remove .h files or complain about deprecated .h files will be ignored. Can you imagine paying programmers to change source to use no .h files? How much will that cost? I am sure comments in C++ beginning with "//" are in the standard. But the standard also allows "/**/". The C++ comment style is no evenly implemented. I am currently working where C++ comments are not allowed. The real standard is what people use and not what committees write. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mailto in mozilla-firebird
On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:41:51AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote: > On 17 Feb 2004, David P James wrote: > > On February 16, 2004 06:39, Michael Graham wrote: > > > Micha wrote: > > > > Is it possible to tell mozilla-firebird how to handle mailto links? > > > > I am using exim4 + mutt for mail. > > > > > > yep, http://mozex.mozdev.org/ > > > > Or there's the way it's supposed to work (at least with recent versions > > of mozilla-firebird/firefox). You have to have Gnome installed > > (unfortunately) and from the Gnome control centre you have to do the > > following: > > > > [snip] > > Working here without Gnome, I'm glad to say. I googled this this week and found people had troubles in general. What worked for me was to "right-button" click on the email address on the web page and select "Copy Email Address". Then go to your email client and paste the address into the To: field. Extra clicks, but it works. Haven't tried Firefox 0.8 yet, I'm using Firebird 0.7 from mozilla.org download site. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 09:14:02AM -0800, Dave Carrigan wrote: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:23:37PM -0500, Mike M wrote: > > > The discussion of declaring main is off the point though. The example > > is to show that the C++ compilers weren't complaining about the .h on the > > #includes. > > Off the point, but still important: portable C++ requires that main() > returns an int. Agreed. But not in small code examples. It's plain to see from the example that the -Wall option caught the infraction and described it quite plainly. I always use -Wall and I always clean up the warnings. > > > It's puzzling to me why it was necessary to make iostream when > > iostream.h works just fine. (That's a retorical question aimed at > > the C++ godz). Me thinks the godz are running out of room for improving C++. They have reached the point of rapidly diminishing returns. > > Part of the formal C++ standard includes the specification of the C++ > Standard Library. That spec says what the names of the standard header > files should be, and the spec says that none of the standard header > files have an extension. > > Vendors can do whatever they want behind the scenes to implement the > spec. In the case of GNU C++, they choose to implement it by putting an > "iostream" file in the standard include search path, and that file > #include's an "iostream.h". In theory, a vendor could choose to > implement "#include " by loading a pre-compiled header file > from a database, and not providing an actual file called iostream at > all. The only important thing is that the vendor supports #include > correctly. > > If you want to write portable C++, you must also use the proper header > name. That means > > #include > > NOT > > #include It's important if you want to the use the namespace feature. However, as detailed below, the namespace feature is esoteric and not widely available. According to the advice above 100% of C++ programmers must change to accomodate the namespace feature which is used by a small percentage of C++ coders. > > The latter might work for GNU C++, but it might not work for somebody > else's C++. To reiterate: when you #include , you are > emphatically NOT getting definitions for the C++ Standard Library's > iostream classes. With GNU C++ you emphatically are. The GNU C++ maintainers implemented iostream as wrapper to iostream.h. The GNU C++ implementors are a smart bunch and they obviously are not making much of a distintion between iostream and iostream.h. Besides, what use is a compiler that does not support iostream.h with reliable functionality? I think the real issue is that the C++ godz want mortal coders to change their habits so that their latest features will work. > You might think you are, but you're not, and your code > won't be portable. You cannot simply write C++ to the standard and expect to be portable. The mozilla guide bears this position. There is portability defined by the standard and then there is portability defined by practical application of a variety compilers against a code set. The two methods disagree at times and the second method settles the arguments at the the mozilla project. > > The main reason why this became the standard is because they needed to > provide backwards compatibility. Vendors had already been shipping > iostream.h, but the Standard put iostream into the std namespace, and > many vendors' iostream.h did not. So, they needed to come up with new > headers that could follow the Standard without breaking backwards > compatibility with existing code that #include's iostream.h. So iostream.h is still valid. It has to be or old code can't be compiled with the new compiler, and that makes the new compiler less valuable. > > The standards committee decided that the most straightforward approach > would be to eliminate the extension altogether. They didn't eliminate the extension. They just sternly say you shouldn't use .h extrensions anymore. Nevermind the fact that there are unfathomable person-hours of human engineering to use the .h extension in include files. The removal of the .h extension is in support of the namespace feature which seems to be implemented unevenly. >From the mozilla C++ portability guide: 5. Don't use namespace facility. Support of namespaces (through the namespace and using keywords) is a relatively new C++ feature, and not supported in many compilers. Don't use it. BTW, the user controllable namespace concept is truly frightening from a code maintenance point of view. The maintainer must learn the new namespace functionality like it was a new and poorly documented language. > > Not als
Re: GCC
On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:02:26PM -0300, Xavier Andrade wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Werner Mahr wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Am Dienstag, 17. Februar 2004 06:27 schrieb Mike M: > > > > > main() > > > test.cpp:4: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `main' with no type > > > > void main(void) and you have a type. > > > > In C++ functions that don't take arguments are f() and not f(void). In declarations I use f(void). When invoking, I use f(). The discussion of declaring main is off the point though. The example is to show that the C++ compilers weren't complaining about the .h on the #includes. ON my stable machine, I have g++ 3.0 loaded. In /usr/include/g++-3/iostream the following contents are found: -iostream // -*- C++ -*- forwarding header. // This file is part of the GNU ANSI C++ Library. #ifndef __IOSTREAM__ #define __IOSTREAM__ #include #endif - The __IOSTREAM__ is defined which identifies your code as using iostream instead of iostream.h. The compilers don't seem to care but I know I've seen a nastygram about preferring the sans .h #defines. Obviously, on my machine iostream is equivalent to iostream.h. It's puzzling to me why it was necessary to make iostream when iostream.h works just fine. (That's a retorical question aimed at the C++ godz). THis issue touches on portability. Here's a guide that I found interesting: http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/portable-cpp.html -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GCC
On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 10:55:36PM -0500, Roberto Sanchez wrote:
> Johann Koenig wrote:
> >On Tuesday February 17 at 02:22am
> >Werner Mahr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Am Dienstag, 17. Februar 2004 00:29 schrieb Debian User:
> >>
> >>
> >>>#include
> >>>#include
> >>>#include
> >>>#include
> >>>#include
> >>
> >>The days I used C daily are long behind, but I think you should try
> >>#include and so on.
> >
> >
> >IIRC, isn't it
> >#include
> >(note the .h)?
>
> Nowadays, the standard headers are all sans .h.
>
> -Roberto
Got here late. Didn't see thread. Use g++ instead of gcc. The .h is
optional with g++ 2.95.4 and g++ 3.0.4. Compiling with -Wall didn't
generate a warning when iostream.h was used. IIRC I did see a nastygram
about .h being deprecated, but I didn't see it on the following:
--test.cpp-
#include
main()
{
cout << "hello\n";
}
-
compiled with:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ g++-3.0 -Wall -o test test.cpp
test.cpp:4: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `main' with no type
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$
--
Mike
Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or
European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the
average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com
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Re: Knoppix is Not Debian
On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 06:22:08PM -0800, Marc Wilson wrote: > On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 11:25:33AM -0500, Mike M wrote: > > > What interests me at this point is if and when there will be a live-cd > > == Debian (stable, testing, unstable) > > When it's time to railroad, people start railroading. That's where Knoppix > came from in the first place, not that it was the first. > > It's in no way an itch I have, so no need to scratch it. However, are > *you* volunteering to build the railroad? ^_^ Not sure another railroad is needed. Would rather use what's already out there. I might be more use as a tester/documenter than a developer. I have a 10G sandbox partition on a new Toshiba laptop that I can use to try some things I learned in this thread. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian, Knoppix, and other varients
On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 07:04:34PM -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > Nope. I use Knoppix to boot from, make the "system image" as far as > disks etc. I then mount those filesystems apropos and then run > debootstrap in that directory and install a basic system. > > I then chroot into it and then update everything needed to make it work. > Then install a new kernel that supports the hardware. > > All Done. Literally end of story. I have put woody on machines with SATA > controllers that have only been out for 2.4.22+ to have drivers built in > them. > > I don't have a single problem. > I end up having no knoppix type of system. You might consider doing > something similar. > > The stuff I do is based in part on the the Debian Chroot Install @ > twiki.iwethey.org > > Search in google... you will find it. Sounds a little hairy but if it gets me out of the unstable pool, then it might be worth the effort. I shudder at the thought of a broken "tar". I am perfectly capable of creating confusion and delay with my own inventions. I've got this post saved for google strings. Thanks. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian, Knoppix, and other varients
On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 11:55:03AM -0500, Adam Aube wrote: > On Monday 09 February 2004 11:37 am, Mike M wrote: > > Does this mean that the only way to get a system that just works is to > > mix and match software from all branches? > > That depends on how you define "just works". All branches except stable > have a chance of broken packages, so based on that stable is the only > branch that "just works". > > The mix of the branches provides a system that "just works" while > supporting newer hardware that stable does not currently support. > However, this same mixing makes it difficult to keep a system updated > from the Debian archive, as a package that worked when the Knoppix CD was > made may be broken currently in the branch it is drawn from. I guess "stable" means bedrock stable then. It seems there will never be a Debian stable that is aware of the latest hardware. Hardware is released at a faster rate than the rate at which stable can be released. To use Debian on the latest hardware then you must use unstable or testing, which exposes you to possible broken packages. Live-cds mix and match packages from different release streams (unstable, stable, testing) thus making update/upgrades out of the mainstream of Debian support. > > I would not use Knoppix for anything other than a Live CD for this reason. > What I want is an up-to-date hardware configurator and all the blessings of stable. This will most likely never be available. It seems impossible. I would settle for an up-to-date hardware configurator with the stream purity of unstable. This appears to be in the works with Sarge, so I'll go try it. What I have is Knoppix on HDD with a /etc/apt/sources.list pointing to all the Knoppix defined mirrors with the exception of some that don't work (which highlights the problems you point out). -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian, Knoppix, and other varients
On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 10:55:01AM +0100, Andreas Janssen wrote: > Knoppix uses software from all branches of Debian: stable, testing, > unstable and experimental. This means it is nearly possible to turn > Knoppix into Debian stable, supplying you with security updates and so > on. In the end, if you want to upgrade or install additional software, > you probably end up using unstable. Or you stay with the program > versions in Knoppix. If you don't have a fast internet connection, It > will be difficult to install new software or keep the system up to > date. Does this mean that the only way to get a system that just works is to mix and match software from all branches? -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Corrupt Packages.gz while attempting network install
On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 02:57:11PM +1100, Rob Weir wrote: > On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 01:56:30PM -0800, John Christian said > > > > So ... I can't seem to pass the corrupt (MD5?) tests on both the ISO > > images and http mirrors. > > Your ISO has a incorrect md5sum? That means the image is corrupt, > you'll need to re-download it or find somone serving the ISOs over rsync > so you can fix it up. Maybe your .iso didn't actually finish downloading. Use "wget -c". You can start/stop downloads. you can switch mirrors and find the fastest one. In the course of a download you might even find that you start with one mirror and finish with another. I haven't tried the rsync way. I guess I should one day. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Knoppix is Not Debian
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 08:13:07PM -0800, Marc Wilson wrote: > On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 06:32:54PM -0800, Dale Welch wrote: > > > For him and many other people having an easy install OS is imperative. > > No. John Q. Public has no business pretending he's competent to install a > complex operating system. He's not, he shouldn't be doing it, 'nuff said. Probably why live-cds are appealling. I am not J.Q.P. I write device drivers and R/T applications. I've always relied on S/A to provide GPOS computing services and applications so I can do my specialized work. Now I'm on my own and I have to be SA and specialist. I simply can't learn all the SA tasks and techniques at once. Ease of installation of a GPOS is valuable to more than J.Q.P. I think live-cds demonstrate the easy-to-install GPOS are feasible. I sure hope the arguments of live-cd != Debian are not motivated by a sour-grapes attitude that Debian-pure is not as easy to install as a Debian-based live-cd. What interests me at this point is if and when there will be a live-cd == Debian (stable, testing, unstable) -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Knoppix is Not Debian
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 08:05:15PM -0800, Dale Welch wrote: > I would like at some point to build a version based on > stable. Perhaps late this year after my 2nd brain surgery :-) I've subscribed to a brain surgery user list. I can do your surgery and then you can get started on the stable-based live-cd that installs-to-HDD idea. I would use it. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Knoppix is Not Debian
On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 11:04:57PM -0500, Jeff Elkins wrote: > On Sunday 08 February 2004 7:18 pm, Marc Wilson wrote: > > > > Then they should use it. I couldn't care less whether someone uses Debian, > > Knoppix, SuSE, Mandrake, or even Windows. Cluebies have been shooting > > themselves in the foot since time immemorial, and it's not up to me to make > > a choice for them as to what they should use. shooting foot == learning; > > But *don't* call it something it's not, and *don't* expect to get support > > for it while you're calling it something it's not. nobody should expect anything from a list ever > > Cut out the "stupid/cluebie" nonsense. You hurt Debian, Linux, and OSS in > general with this elitist attitude. At first blush I agreed with this statement. Then I realized that the reason debian-user works is because knowledge comes before courtesy. There's no denying that live-cds rock. When I got a new laptop, it needed Linux on it fast and I wanted it to be Debian-based. I find X windows to be a tough nut to crack and I take no particular joy in getting it to work. I choose Knoppix because it got all the hardware running on the first try. I didn't know about mepis at the time. Things are working pretty well but there were some tense moments after an update/upgrade that experience paid off in solving the problems. The Deutsch-orientation of Knoppix is mutable. As a result of this thread I now know that unstable is not very secure and that Knoppix is a branch project of Debian/unstable. I also know that Sarge is getting a hardware configurator added. I also know that if I update/upgrade one day, I might get hosed because I brute force merged a branched project of Debian/unstable with the main Debian/unstable. My plan: 1. Avoid upgrade/update Knoppix-based partition; read Debian security announcements regulary to assess my level of risk periodically 2. If I need help with my laptop from debian-user I will state that I am using a Knoppix-based installation 3. Partition the remaining 10G on my lapttop HDD for experiment with Sarge's loader (I recall that they need people to use it to test it); once I get it working then I'll wipe down the Knoppix-based partition Live-cds are here to stay as are the install-to-HDD options. Perhaps Debian should endorse live-cds if possible. I think Debian will be getting lots of new attention now that RH is dead and Debian-based live-cds are catching on. There could be an on-slaught of "stupid" questions. -- Mike Two hundred years ago, we note mischievously, the average American or European had a standard of living not very much superior to that of the average man in India or China. -- dailyreckoning.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debain on the rise ! - However ....
On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 03:35:28PM -0500, David Clymer wrote: > On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 13:32, W. B. Maguire II wrote: > > The end result? The end result is unfortunate for Debian. I really *did* > > want to try Debian, but with the only response I got to my > > hour-long-researching-post being "compile your own kernel", that pretty > > much shut this new-comer down! So, I'm probably going to be using Gentoo > > instead. >From Debian to Gentoo? Hold on there. That's jumping out of the frying pan and in to fire. Tried Knoppix yet? It's Debian mixed with Hardware Helper. It's worth a try. If your mobo works with Knoppix and not with a pure Debian install, now you've got the makings of an interesting post for the list. > > So, you didnt get a whole pile of quick fix answers? it happens. Remember that you are asking for gift time from people so be thankful that you get anything at all. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Buying a new computer, questions!
On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 12:57:27AM -0800, Nano Nano wrote: > I am going to buy a new computer this week (yay Bush tax cuts!) -- will > it work with Linux? > > Intel Pentium 4/ 3.2C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading > Technology - Retail > > Asus 875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU, Model "P4C800-E > DELUXE" -RETAIL > > Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) 184 Pin > 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200 - Retail > (x2 = 1gig) > > plus a good case will be $960! woot! > The other stuff will come over from my old PC. > > Will Linux be happy with Hyperthreading and this particular Mobo? I'm > going to do some googling but I wondered if any could share experiences. 1. I have a Mobile Pentium 4 with h/t running unstable with 2.4 kernel; seems A-OK to me 2. Read in O'Reilly "Understanding the Linux Kernel" 2nd Ed. that: "Very recently, Intel introduced the hyper-threading technology. Basically, the hyper-threaded CPU isa microprocessor that executes two threads of exectuions at once; it includes serveral copies of the internal registers and quickly switches between them. Thanks to this approach, the machine cycles spent when one thread is accessing the RAM can be exploited by the second thread. A hyper-threaded CPU is seen by the kernel as two different CPUs, so Linux does not have to be explicitly made aware of it. However, Lnux breaks the "oldest idle rule" and forces an immediate resceduling when it discovers that a hyper-threaded CPU is running two idle processes." -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Isolationism is history.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 07:58:55PM -0500, Al Davis wrote: > On Friday 30 January 2004 04:11 pm, Colin Watson wrote: > > But be very careful about doing that; you may well end up "tainted" > > if you sign source licence agreements, and writing free software > > thereafter could be difficult. > > This is the original basis for the SCO vs. IBM lawsuit. > > Writing any software that is in any way similar thereafter could be > different. Using this line of reasoning you could argue that no one planning on writing literature for a living should ever read existing copyrighted literature for fear of being tainted. No musician should listen to a copyrighted work. After reading GNU software you are "tainted". I would think that a deep-pocketed entity with source-code products might be a bit fearful these days since they might have to prove that they did not harvest something from the open source community. As the open-source library grows there might well a requirement on copyrighters and patenters to prove they did not steal their ideas from the open. In the future there might be a stigma of "stolen code" attached to closed source products and be rejected for fear of losing the investment through forced elimination as a legal remedy to infringment. This is a rambling thread so I don't feel too bad about sending it down yet another path. It seems that open-source is like gunpowder - it's a powerful force that is going to change society. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 01:04:43AM -0800, Nano Nano wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 12:43:56AM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: > > invites the same to be done to it. And if we don't want people messing > > with the US they why the hell do we put up with the US messing with other > > nations. It's called a double-standard, really pissy things. > > http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/07/isolationism.html > > Definition of Isolationism > >1. involvement without commitment - "advantages without obligations" Impossible. >2. no permanent, entanglinq alliances Impossible. >3. keep U.S. sovereign, free, at peace Not unique to isolationism. >4. emphasis on legalism, not force > * a "law-bound" world of Great Powers keeping order How do you keep order and maintain your isolated position? >5. continue the Open Door concept Isolated with an Open Door confuses me. > > I watch the History channel and C-Span when I'm not scratching my balls. Stay with History and CS/CS2. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 10:09:57PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: > Mike M wrote: > >I am not going to defend .gov's oil policy. My point is there has to be > >an oil policy. You can't disengage and think things will just turn out > >alright. > > Why does there have to be one that includes invasion? I don't know. > > >They are in front of the line. My vote is all of the above. > > Even if, by and large, they are ignorant? Sure hope you didnt buy Nike > a few years back. See how hard it is to disengage? Things are just too connected. So if you stopped buying Nike to protest crappy working conditions of their suppliers then you help promote their unemployment. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. You can't say "I quit". So if the world hates the US, then we ask why, and we listen, and we think, and then we act. Disengagement is impossible so don't use it as a rebuttal to some poll indicated the popularity of US government. > > >There's blood on all their hands. Some more than others. A lot of people > >each with a speck of blood on their hands or a few with it dripping from > >their's, regardless, the crime is done. > > But the question is, what is the appropriate response by the government? What is the appropriate response of the people in the US who _can_ control their government? > > >Who's Bob? I'm Mike. > > Bob Barker. Oh. Him. Game show host. I didn't ask the price of anything. :-) > > >My concept of "local" and "nation" are changing. I'm pretty sure we're > >not going to see eye-to-eye on this one. > > So you believe that any time any nation has a problem with out we > (meaning your nation) does something it is perfectly OK for them to invade? Quite to the contrary. Phones and Intenet make the entire US seem like one big city. I've talked to folks all over the world for business since the mid-90's. It's never perfectly OK to invade. It's the worst course of possible. It's against everything Sun-Tzu teaches. I would like to have US leaders review the master's work and be required to take a quiz on it. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 07:37:00PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: > Mike M wrote: > >There's no way to separate the > >private concerns from the public ones. How is the business of oil to be > >separated from the world's current woes? > > How does government meddling in it improve anything? I am not going to defend .gov's oil policy. My point is there has to be an oil policy. You can't disengage and think things will just turn out alright. > > >Who is responsible for the atrocities that > >followed, consisting of human enslavement, destruction of families, and > >massive bloodshed in the American Civil War? The engineers and > >businessmen in Britain? The Southern United States plantation owners? > >The consumers that loaded up on cheap and plentiful textile products? > > My vote would be on the slavers and those who bought them, Bob. They are in front of the line. My vote is all of the above. There's blood on all their hands. Some more than others. A lot of people each with a speck of blood on their hands or a few with it dripping from their's, regardless, the crime is done. If you buy the product made with slave labor you are helping the enslavers. We're all connected and we can't disengage. Who's Bob? I'm Mike. > Deprivation of another individuals rights. In that case it is a local > matter. IE the government would police its own population. What it should > not do is go out and police the *OTHER* nation's population. My concept of "local" and "nation" are changing. I'm pretty sure we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this one. In summary, we cannot take the ball and go home. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 09:08:17PM +0800, Katipo wrote: > > I'd debate the issue, but you have your preferred view that appears to be based on a > mixture of misconception and a confused perception of Europe being socialist. You > obviously also appear to have no understanding of what happened in Yugoslavia. It > was not a racist issue, it was similar only in the way that religion imposes > paradigms of exclusion in the same way in which nationalism does. Politics, religion, what's the difference? Too many people were slaughtering each other. It needed to be stopped. An effort was made. Less people are being slaughtered in that region of the world. Even if it was done for all the wrong reasons, there are less atrocities being committed. Who will argue in favor of genocide, rape, and torture? -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 12:23:00PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: > Mike M wrote: > >The point-by-point rebuttal was rendered moot by this last part. We (the > >US) must not withdraw from the world and our borders must remain open and > >we must accept being hated and we must stop being so arrogant and we must > >do business fairly. > > I never said the borders should be closed. I said that the US (meaning > the US government, sorry for being unclear) should not be meddling in the > affairs of other nations, PERIOD. *NO* military action. *NO* aid. > *NOTHING*. The government should be here govern the US and that's it. > > If individuals or business want to do something outside the US, have > fun. If other individuals or businesses want to come here, all the power > to them. But in both those cases it is a mutually consensual agreement and > does not come off as something the US Government and this *as a whole > nation* is doing and supporting. The clarification is helpful and I almost agreed with your position. It didn't hold up. There's no way to separate the private concerns from the public ones. How is the business of oil to be separated from the world's current woes? Here's a similar example from history. The industrial revolution in Britain caused massive productivity increases in the textile industry. iAs a result, the demand for Southern US cotton increased correspondingly without a complimentary technical advancement in cotton's production. What was needed was more cheap labor. Who is responsible for the atrocities that followed, consisting of human enslavement, destruction of families, and massive bloodshed in the American Civil War? The engineers and businessmen in Britain? The Southern United States plantation owners? The consumers that loaded up on cheap and plentiful textile products? Elections in the US are high-dollar marketing campaigns. Lot's of dollars come from business concerns outside the US. I have the priviledge of being represented by a person with obligations to non-US interests. So here is an example of foreign meddling in my domestic affairs. Any way you look at it, we can't stop meddling. The US can and should fix much of the meddling it does. Micro-loans directly to individual entreprenuers instead of massive aid packages that ends up in Carribean and Swiss bank accounts is one way. Adopting a journalist's ethics of corroborating a story with independent sources in the intelligence community is another. I think these measures are recommended for not just the US too. -- Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email client programs
On Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 09:44:47PM -0800, Curtis Vaughan wrote: > I know this is not a windows list and I have never yet asked a question > like this on here before, but perhaps there is someone who knows the > answer to this question. > > Because our vessels have to get mail over lines that are rather shaky, > we would like them to pull mail in a way whereby once they've received > a message it is considered downloaded. Earlier we were using ccMail > (Lotus) which did just that. But now we had them switch over to > Outlook Express. In the case of Outlook Express, however, let's say > they received 3 letters and then the line broke. Well, when they > reconnect they would have to get those 3 letters again, prior to going > on and getting the rest. Maybe this is just the way POP3 works. Or is > there a mail client program that acts otherwise? i.e., Mozilla, etc. I finally cured myself of kitchen-sink email clients. Now I do this: pop3->getmail->procmail->Maildir type mailboxes<-mutt->nullmailer->smtp The kitchen-sink email "clients" do all of the above and try to make your life simple (they're really making you think less). If you are on a ship with unreliable links (satellite?) then you don't qualify for the simple way. You need the full control email model. Start with: pop3->getmail->Maildir type mailboxes You can control the deletion of the message at the POP3 server with the "delete=1" control in the ~/.getmail/getmailrc file. Each email is deleted as it is retrieved (same as fetchmail). Good luck. Google is your friend. Every tool listed above has its own email list and then there's good-ole debian-user. Be sure to work hard reading manuals, googling, and experimenting before posting questions and you'll get outstanding help. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bruce Perens talks to BBC
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 03:55:21AM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: > > Quite frankly I'd be more than happy if the US got out of the world. > I'm tired of footing the bill for other nation's defense. I'd love for the > US to get out of Isreal and Palastine. Not that we're really *IN* it, mind > you, except for urging both sides into talking instead of blowing up > marketplaces and bulldozing settlements. Out of the substates of > Yugoslavia. Out of the world in general. Let it all go to hell because it > is clear that in most cases that's exactly what the people want. Bring it > back to our borders and leave it there save for one understanding; any > nation messes with us we will retaliate en force. We'll leave you > hellbound hypocrocites alone but you had best leave us alone in return. > Isolationist but with the right to defend ourselves. Let people come and > go as they please. Let the commercial interests do what they will within > the bounds of the nations they deal with but as a government, as a nation, > let the world be. Stand or fall on its own. It's not our problem. Make >the offical comment on every little petty (in your eyes) racial slaughter > "not our problem." > The point-by-point rebuttal was rendered moot by this last part. We (the US) must not withdraw from the world and our borders must remain open and we must accept being hated and we must stop being so arrogant and we must do business fairly. Doing so is the price of living in a country where over-eating is a problem. Nobody likes a rich, arrogant, bully. Actually it's encouraging that Debian allows cooperation between socialists and capitalists and isolationists and globalists. It just goes to show you that if you have something to keep you busy then you'll work through the less important differences. I actually like these threads from time to time. To those that don't like them, you can use Mutt and delete threads with a single keystroke. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CVS_RSH for :ext: CVS access
I've set up several Debian systems and loaded the cvs package on them. I've had no problem using: $ cvs -d :ext:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/cvsrep checkout myproject Now I have to do some work on a RH8 box to solve a particular problem. I found that I had to do this: $ CVS_RSH=ssh; export CVS_RSH to get the command above to work. On the Debian system, when I query evironments vars, I do not set CVS_RSH set. Why do the Debian systems allow the :ext: access method to work without having the CVS_RSH var set? -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Bogus undelivered message
On Wednesday 11 June 2003 16:39, Karsten M. Self wrote: > If you want your messages authenticated, sign them. I just started with GPG and I'm still learning. I need some clarification on the advice above. Are you saying that by signing all emails, then I can positively distinguish real undelivered from bogus undelivered because the bogus ones will not have my digital signature? I need to get a legitimate bounced message so I stare and compare. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Bogus undelivered message
Has anyone heard of bogus email undeliverable messages being used to propogate virus? I just got such a message from a system I did not recognize. I was tempted to investigate the attachments when I recalled that real undelivered messages contain a lot of information about where it came from and why. I almost stepped in the dew-dew. The thing that really pissed me off was that it came addressed to my email address above - which I ONLY use for known good lists. Bummer. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] ergonomic setups
On Tuesday 10 June 2003 12:26, Nori Heikkinen wrote: > i guess this thread is > demonstrating well that it's really all a matter of personal > preference, and that what works for some may be what's causing pain in > others. Take wrist health very seriously though. The damage to wrists is slow and unnoticablein the beginning. Take notice of any burning sensations in your hands, wrists, and arms. The path to healing is very slow. When you damage your tendons they need to be immobile to heal - something that is darn near impossible unless you're going to wear a cast. I went from being an employee with all the std office tools (chairs, desks, split keyboards, ergo-people in HR) to being self-employed. I pinched on keyboards, desk, and chair. It was false economy. A bad chair will irritate your shoulders and neck. I changed my desk config and got myself a pretty good chair from an office supply store. This thread is the push I needed to get myself a split keyboard (I'm in the camp that believes that they help). It took about 18 months to really feel the pain. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Automatic installation
On Sunday 08 June 2003 15:27, David Fokkema wrote: > Can anyone comment on the tools available and which might be > particularly suited for the job. For example, is fai the best choice > because you can easily define classes and so configure the packages for > a particular server, or is it overkill? > > Your thoughts, please... I'm interested also. I read FAI this week. I am building a small server farm. As I build each server I want to omit CDROM (used only for installation, $20) and FDD (used never, $5). If FAI works as advertised I might be able to achieve this goal. When I compare the labor cost of learning and maintaining FAI (16 hours * $20/hr = $320) versus the cost of a CDROM ($20 ea.), I'll have to build 16 servers to break even with paying myself $20/hr. Another justification for FAI is having to reload machines often. An automatic system would be fully worth the effort in that scenario. Trouble is, Debian does not need to be reloaded often - especially if you use stable and keep them updated/upgraded. FAI seems to make sense for a growing server farm or grid or cluster or workstation environment or a retail PC with Debian preloaded. I think a very good justification for using FAI in a small environment is to learn the tool and pedal that skill in a large environment. You never know what skill will come in handy. Luck comes to those that are prepared (I think Lucille Ball said something this effect). (worth == US$0.02) -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Server - no video card
On Thursday 05 June 2003 13:03, Gary Hennigan wrote: > "Mike M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I want to save money as I expand my collection of Debian servers by > > running without a video card. On the rare occasion that I need > > console access to a machine I would pull it off the shelf and insert > > an AGP video card. > > > > I just tried it on one of my servers and the only thing I observed > > was a beep during the boot-up sequence. My bad here. I meant to report that everything worked and the only thing that changed from before was that I heard a beep. I am able to ssh in and it's doing its job with no problem that I can detect so far. > > > > Several questions come to mind: > > > > Is this an acceptable mode of operation? Are others running in this > > mode? > > > > Should most motherboards being recently produced be expected to run > > without a video card? (Maybe it's a BIOS thing?) > > The BIOS on a lot of machines, particularly older ones, won't allow > you to boot without a video card. In some cases you can tweak a BIOS > setting to tell it to ignore the lack of a video card and boot anyway, > *but*, you have to install a video card in order to set that in the > BIOS, usually. OK. I remember those options. I changed it when the machine complained about not having a keyboard in a previous exercise. I can't remember what value I set. It must be set to ignore all errors since the machine came up. > > Is it a valid approach? Yeah, I suppose there's nothing wrong with the > approach, if your machines BIOS supports booting without a video card, > but it's a MIGHTY pain to have to add a video card when something goes > wrong. For most cases like this I generally just get a computer with > built-in video, set it up while connected to a monitor and then > disconnect the monitor and throw it in the closet. Either that or I > shell out $30 for a cheapo VGA card. If I tried setting up a server > without a video card I know I'd be cursing myself every time something > went wrong and I had to open up the case and install a video card just > to diagnose the problem. Geez, I must really be a tightwad :-). I shopped for on-board video mobos at pricewatch but found the selection had fewer PCI slots than I needed (4-5) at the price point I wanted ($40). I am trying to build a sub $200 server. Debian is making CDROMs pointless as well. I am looking a 7 CDROM drives that I rarely use. It's time I looked in to loading from a network drive. Thanks for the advice. I going to run video card-less in a couple of boxes for a while to see how often I need monitor access. I might do the serial access thing mentioned in another response. > > Gary -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Server - no video card
I want to save money as I expand my collection of Debian servers by running without a video card. On the rare occasion that I need console access to a machine I would pull it off the shelf and insert an AGP video card. I just tried it on one of my servers and the only thing I observed was a beep during the boot-up sequence. Several questions come to mind: Is this an acceptable mode of operation? Are others running in this mode? Should most motherboards being recently produced be expected to run without a video card? (Maybe it's a BIOS thing?) Thanks, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cloning of Linux Kernal
On Thursday 05 June 2003 09:39, dhobner wrote: > I have configured and built a new kernal under debian. I want to clone the > kernal and install it on many identical machines. What exactly should I > do? In the event you did not use make-kpkg you can do the following: 1) get the new kernel image to the new machine; put it in /boot for example 2) tar up the /lib/modules/2.x.x that correspond to your new kernel; untar on the new machine; verify results 3) edit /etc/lilo.conf on new machine; I like to assign a new kernal image the non-default label so you have to specify the new kernel on the first run 4) don't forget to run lilo (the command that is) 5) restart 6) if new kernel works on new machine; then edit /etc/lilo.cong so new kernel is default; run lilo; restart; verify 7) if more machines then goto 1) After you do this several times, you'll be very interested in the make-kpkg and the apt-get install method of doiing this procedure. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dumb Newbie KDE Pager Question
On Monday 02 June 2003 20:44, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 09:46:20AM -0400, RB wrote: > > How do I move a window from one desktop to another in the KDE pager? > > I come from FVWM2, where you click and drag the little window in the > > pager. > > Here's how I do it... in kcontrol, go into Desktop, then Window > Behavior. > > Under the Advanced tab, in the Active Desktop Borders, select "Only > when moving windows" or "Always enabled". > > The difference between the two? > > * Only when moving windows - If you drag a window to the edge of the > screen, after the delay you set passes that you stay on the edge of > the screen, it pops over to the next desktop that direction. > > * Always enabled - You can move between desktops when you're not > dragging a window. > > I hope this helps. I use the "stick pins" in the upper left-hand corner of the window. 1. click stick-pin (watch pager) 2. change to new desktop 3. click stickpin -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: horse at the gate
On Friday 30 May 2003 20:16, Mark Roach wrote: > then run "file filename" for detailed info. for simpler things, try 'ls > --color' this will hilight normal files/directories/executables > differently to keep from having to type this every time, you can do > > alias ls='ls --color' > > you can also edit your .bashrc file to make this automatic every time > you login. You may need to edit your .bash_profile to execute the .bashrc if your are running from a login shell. Logout and log back in to see the changes occur. >From .bash_profile: # include .bashrc if it exists if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then source ~/.bashrc fi To edit .bash_profile, do the following: $ ls -a // shows hidden files $ vi .bash_profile // move cursor down to "if" statement shown above // use 'x' key to delete the the '#' character on that line // do the same action on the next 3 lines // enter the following to save your work: :wq $ vi .bashrc // remove the '#' from the following lines: # enable color support of ls and also add handy aliases eval `dircolors` <---this line alias ls='ls --color=auto ' <---and this line #alias ll='ls -l' #alias la='ls -A' #alias l='ls -CF' #alias dir='ls --color=auto --format=vertical' #alias vdir='ls --color=auto --format=long' // save your work with :wq // logout - login - enter the following commands: $ ls /usr/bin $ ls /var/log // see the colors? -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mkinitrd
On Thursday 29 May 2003 11:22, Axel Gerster wrote: > > Would it be easier for you to embed the module into the kernel? > > I only have the source code for a module. How to patch it into the kernel? 1) run make menuconfig 2) read "Legend" in Main Menu -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mkinitrd
On Wednesday 28 May 2003 16:22, Axel Gerster wrote: > Hello, > > can someone please explain to me how to get an module > into an existing initrd.img and get it loaded on bootup? > Or does someone know a good howto? Have you checked the Kernel HOWTO? If you look back through the archives of this list for this month, you'll find lots of discussion on initrd. Would it be easier for you to embed the module into the kernel? -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: man, oh man
On Tuesday 27 May 2003 17:11, Travis Crump wrote: > From man man: > > PAGER If $PAGER is set, its value is used as the name of the program > used to display the manual page. By default, exec /usr/bin/pager -s is > used. > > /usr/bin/pager can be changed using /usr/bin/update-alternatives >From the workstation: deb2:~# ls -l /usr/bin/pager lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 23 Mar 18 08:07 /usr/bin/pager -> /etc/alternatives/pager deb2:~# ls -l /etc/alternatives/pag ls: /etc/alternatives/pag: No such file or directory deb2:~# ls -l /etc/alternatives/pager lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 13 Mar 18 13:48 /etc/alternatives/pager -> /usr/bin/less Found less package using "dpkg -l" >From the minimal server: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/pager lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 23 May 19 15:02 /usr/bin/pager -> /etc/alternatives/pager [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls -l /etc/a ls: /etc/a: No such file or directory [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls -l /etc/alternatives/pager lrwxrwxrwx1 root root9 May 19 15:02 /etc/alternatives/pager-> /bin/more "apt-get install less" automagically changes /etc/alternatives/pager Thanks, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Error with new kernel
On Wednesday 28 May 2003 06:53, Tran Tuan Anh wrote: > But when I boot the system there was an error: > > "request-module[block-major-3]: Root fs not mounted. > VFS: cannot open root device "303" or 03:03 > Please append a correct "root=" boot option." > > > I tried to compiled again with initrd option, > but still failed put '*' in the disk drive drivers and filesystem options of your config so that you have those things embedded into the kernel; this allows you to forget about initrd http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200305/msg02759.html -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
man, oh man
I've installed some minimal stable configurations lately (answered no to tasksel and dselect during installation of bf24). When I run "man" on the minimal system, it's like the output is piped to "more". In a workstation installation machine, running man results in a environment similar to running "vi -R". The same version of man is being run on both systems. I skimmed this (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/Man-Page/index.html) and found no explanation for the different behaviour. I could use some help in understanding how the different man behaviors exist. Thanks, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: initrd and lilo.conf
On Tuesday 27 May 2003 14:08, Mark Roach wrote: > I imagine this is because you don't have initrd-tools installed. For > some reason the stock kernel images put this for depends: > Depends: initrd-tools (>= 0.1.40), coreutils | fileutils (>= 4.0), > modutils (>= 2.4.19) > > but when you use make-kpkg, it only puts initrd-tools in "suggests" > Suggests: initrd-tools (>= 0.1.1), lilo (>= 19.1), fdutils, > kernel-doc-2.4.18-ml350 | kernel-source-2.4.18-ml350 > > try installing that package and I think you'll be all set, that should > probably be filed as a bug against kernel-package if it isn't already. Also read "--initrd" in: $ man make-kpkg -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: initrd and lilo.conf
On Tuesday 27 May 2003 12:22, Brian W. Carver wrote: > I just compiled a custom 2.4.18 kernel for my woody-running laptop. > > I'm new at this and am pretty sure I am about to shutdown and be unable to > boot back up, because this initrd/lilo stuff has me baffled. Please help! I had the same questions earlier this month: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200305/msg02481.html 1) Best: compile in support for your boot disk drive drivers (IDE most likely) and filesystem type (ext2, ext3, etc.); then you don't need initrd; 2) try add --initrd to make-kpkg options; read kernel howto re. initrd for more detail Both require some work. Invest in (1) unless you intend to distribute your kernel to many different machine configurations, then (2) is a good investment of your time. HTH, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kmail or Konq
Anybody else running Woody having probs with Kmail or Konq freezing? Konq more often than Kmail. I log out and log in to clear. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: time is slipping away
On Friday 04 April 2003 01:57, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ntpdate > 4 Apr 01:56:31 ntpdate[1336]: no servers can be used, exiting Look here www.ntp.org for this http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/servers.html then try: $ ntpdate tick.jrc.us or some other server; I used the stratum 2 clocks. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does rsh still work?
On Wednesday 02 April 2003 09:49, Mike M wrote: > On Wednesday 02 April 2003 00:56, Bob Proulx wrote: > > Noah Meyerhans wrote: > > > ls -l `which rsh` /etc/alternatives/rsh > > > should answer your question. > > > > That shows the details. But this seems more in the spirit of things. > > > > update-alternatives --display rsh > > > > Bob > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/usr/src/newer/ss7box$ update-alternatives --display rsh > bash: update-alternatives: command not found > > The man page for update-alternatives comes up. Stupidity sets in. Permission problem. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does rsh still work?
On Wednesday 02 April 2003 00:56, Bob Proulx wrote: > Noah Meyerhans wrote: > > ls -l `which rsh` /etc/alternatives/rsh > > should answer your question. > > That shows the details. But this seems more in the spirit of things. > > update-alternatives --display rsh > > Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/usr/src/newer/ss7box$ update-alternatives --display rsh bash: update-alternatives: command not found The man page for update-alternatives comes up. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sparc stability
On Tuesday 01 April 2003 20:30, Warwick Brown wrote: > p.s. what uptimes do fellow sparc'ers get? Was running Potato. The dist-upgrade failed so I reloaded with Woody. I just started using the box as a network file system (NFS and Samba). Putting a CVS repository on it today. Lightly loaded. sun1:~# uptime 22:16:56 up 3 days, 22:14, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why does rsh still work?
On Tuesday 01 April 2003 18:09, Noah Meyerhans wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 05:57:33PM -0500, Mike M wrote: > > On my Debian 3 sparc machine there is no rshd running and there is no > > shell or login entry in /etc/inetd.conf. There is an sshd process. I am > > still able to rsh in from a Debian 3 i386 machine. From a RH6.1 I get > > connection refused when I try to rsh to the Debian 3 sparc machine. > > ls -l `which rsh` /etc/alternatives/rsh > should answer your question. 'was driving me crazy - thanks all. sun1:~# ls -l /usr/bin/rsh lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 21 Mar 28 17:09 /usr/bin/rsh -> /etc/alternatives/rsh sun1:~# ls -l /etc/alternatives/rsh lrwxrwxrwx1 root root 12 Mar 28 17:09 /etc/alternatives/rsh -> /usr/bin/ssh -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why does rsh still work?
On my Debian 3 sparc machine there is no rshd running and there is no shell or login entry in /etc/inetd.conf. There is an sshd process. I am still able to rsh in from a Debian 3 i386 machine. From a RH6.1 I get connection refused when I try to rsh to the Debian 3 sparc machine. On the Rh6.1 machine in /etc/inetd.conf I commented out the shell and login entries and restarted inetd. The Rh6.1 machine has SSH2 sshd running. I can still rsh into the RH machine from the Debian 3 i386. Is it possible that OpenSSH and SSH2 both handle rsh logins? My attempts at STFW have not yielded a direct answer...yet. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Log rotation
On Tuesday 01 April 2003 10:43, Matthew Daubenspeck wrote:
> I currently have a daemon logging each day's worth of activity into a
> separate daily log with the daemon-month.date.year format.
> Unfortunately, I cannot change the options of HOW it is logged or what
> it is named.
>
> I really only want to keep a weeks worth of logs, and have tried to use
> logrotate to handle all the rotation and removal. In short, it doesn't
> seem to be working. From what I can tell, logrotate is better suited at
> rotating a single log file, not logs that change the filename daily
> (such as an apache log).
Does each daily log have a name like Mon.log, Tue.log, Wed.log, etc.? Then
rotate them on a weekly basis.
In /etc/logrotate.d, add some stanzas such as:
/var/log/Mon.log {
weekly
rotate 1
postrotate
/* post rotate actions here if desired */
endscript
}
/var/log/Tue.log {
weekly
rotate 1
postrotate
/* post rotate actions here if desired */
endscript
}
Manipulate your date to "goose" the execution of cron to run the logrotate
function; should see Mon.log and Mon.log.1 after the logrotate.
>
> I guess the last resort would be to create some sort of shell script
> that would run in cron once a day and delete the oldest file in the log
> directory.
Sounds like a good solution if you have log files that always get a unique
name, like Mon.20030331.log. I am not sure if logrotate can handle filenames
like Mon.*.log.
>
> Any other ideas that I might be missing? Thanks.
--
Mike M.
--
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Re: How do I "apt-get upgrade" the kernel for debian-390?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 11:36, Peter Farley wrote: > That matches my experience, though I only tried > apt-cache search for "kernel" and then "image", I > didn't think to try "kernel-image". Using a wild card flushes out more possibilities: # apt-cache search kernel* It seems, in general, it is a good idea to use the wild card. Using "^kernel*" found only the packages whose name began with "kernel". -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problems getting Samba to work
On Saturday 29 March 2003 17:25, David E. Meiser wrote: > I am attempting to build a media server, using samba to transfer files > to the media server from my Windows XP box and am unable to logon to the > media server. I am able to get to the media server and view the open > shares, but I'm unable to get to the shared files themselves (let alone > write to the directory). When trying to access the folder, I get a > login box that has "hostname\username" locked as the username. I'm > unable to find anything that might have caused this. Below is the > contents of my smb.conf. Any help would be appreciated. I just put up a Samba file server this weekend on a Debian SPARC box. I have a W98 and Wme clients. I am a Samba newbie. I put: security = user which is the default. In the globals section I put in: invalid users = root valid users = laptop, W98 I created a share: [netdisk0] path = /export/samba/netdisk0 guest ok = yes writeable = yes On the SPARC box I did: 1. adduser for laptop and W98 2. smbpasswd -a laptop 3. smbapasswd - a W98 4. kill -SIGHUP I restarted laptop and W98. When I clicked the Network Neighborhood icons I found the SPARC box. In the SPARC box icon i found netdisk0. I didn't have much success with the security = share option. I kept being asked for a password when I tried to access the shared resource. Huh??? I found that restarting the windoze boxes often fixed things when behavior got stupid. YMMV because you are using XP. HTH, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
NFS or alternative
Got Samba working today. Now I've got to get NFS or something like it working for the Linux side - where most of the work gets done. I've got a simple single site network with 7 Linux boxen. Is NFS v2 the way to go here? TIA, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Finally - Your Own Low Cost Teleconferencing Service!
On Thursday 20 March 2003 10:20, Paul Johnson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 04:53:45PM +0200, Barry Rab wrote: > > And I was flamed for Re-spamming the list with the spam I received > > from the list. Hmph! > > Responding to spam is always bad, whether it's on list or to the > spammer. You'd think this would be obvious. > > You got flamed because you reposted the spam. I've been glued to this and the related thread. I received virus affected email last week and this week. I described the event for my local LUG (no repost of addresses) and submitted it as OT - as a warning about what's going around. I got flamed. So, I agree, responding to and reposting spam should not happen. Live, get flammed, learn, heal. But the flames may have gotten turned on anyway. Maybe one should avoid all discussion of MS virii on Linux lists if getting flamed. I will. When in Rome... -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 'apt-cache search' question
On Sunday 16 March 2003 23:11, Faheem Mitha wrote: > > Don't embarrass yourselves by filing a bug on this. :) > > I'm happy to embarrass myself. :-) So, is anyone going to file a bug, > or shall I? Reminds me of all those times when there is silence in response to the question, "Are there any questions?" Presumably ignorance is superior to embarassment. I liked the apt--cache pipe to grep thingy. Cool trick. Good thread. We now return you to the regularly scheduled thread. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Printers via SMB?
On Saturday 15 March 2003 11:21, Joseph A Nagy Jr wrote: > Domain=[THE_MATRIX] OS=[Windows 5.1] Server=[Windows 2000 LAN Manager] > > Sharename Type Comment > - --- > IPC$ IPC Remote IPC > print$ Disk Printer Drivers > SharedDocs Disk > C Disk > D Disk > Printer2 Printer Canon Bubble-Jet BJC-2100 > PrinterPrinter EPSON Stylus Photo 785EPX > > I'd like to be able to use the Epson from my computer, but I haven't a > clue on how to mount a printer. Do I point it to /dev/lpd or something? > > TIA I used deselect and loaded stuff related to cups (search on "cup" like you would in vi "/cup"; other have given methods using apt-cache Then I used KDE-Control Center-System-Printing Manager; don't remember all the steps but it involved using the wizard; I kept playing with cups until the SMB option showed up (I loaded the cups client but not the server :-) at first). I am setting up an old sparc to run Samba. Then I'll move the printer from the W98 machine to the sparc. Then we'll see if I can figure out how to print from both Debian and W98. No KDE wizards on the sparc :-). I hoping that Mr. O'Reilly will be helpful then. Don't know if you have KDE control center available. If you do, maybe it will help you limp through the process like it helped me. There were several print drivers available for my printer (Epson Color 850). I found that a little confusing. I tried each of them and found the one I liked the best. HTH a little, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "resetting" a network card
On Friday 07 March 2003 07:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Mike M wrote: > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 20:48:18 -0500 > > From: Mike M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Gabriel Granger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: "resetting" a network card > > > > On Thursday 06 March 2003 10:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Thanks for answering. > > > > > > I am afraid that this is not what I want: > > > The problem is that the network card, after lots of data (about 4GB) - > > > either in receive or in transmit, stops responding correctly. > > > So I want to somehow "reset" in order to see if this will solve my > > > problem. > > > > > > Any other ideas please? > > > > > > > > I am curious about the type of card your are working with - RTL8139 by > > any chance? The problem you describe has a certain familiarity to it. -- > > Mike M. > > One of the network cards that I have seen the problem is a RTL8139. But I > have also seen the same problem with 2 Intel EtherExpress Pro 100 network > cards. Have you found any indications of a related problem in the /var/log/messages file? Something like "Oversize Ethernet frame"? -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "resetting" a network card
On Thursday 06 March 2003 10:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Thanks for answering. > > I am afraid that this is not what I want: > The problem is that the network card, after lots of data (about 4GB) - > either in receive or in transmit, stops responding correctly. > So I want to somehow "reset" in order to see if this will solve my > problem. > > Any other ideas please? I am curious about the type of card your are working with - RTL8139 by any chance? The problem you describe has a certain familiarity to it. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sendmail security flaw & fix
I've been looking for the Debian response to the recently found sendmail flaw and corresponding fix (http://www.sendmail.org). Can someone point me to where I can find this information? TIA, -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DocBook
On Monday 24 February 2003 15:45, David Z Maze wrote: > Mike M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I want to restart my DocBook efforts. I have SGML source and want > > to produce HTML and PDF docs > > > > Should I start by installing these packages: docbook, docbook-dsssl? > > That's probably a good start; you also need a DSSSL processor (jade > and jadetex seem to be ~canonical). Then you can run > > jade -t tex foo.sgml # foo.sgml + foo.dsl -> foo.tex > jadetex foo# foo.tex -> foo.dvi > dvips foo -o # foo.dvi -> foo.ps > pdfjadetex foo # foo.tex -> foo.pdf Thanks. > > Alternatively, if you're in an XML world, you can use an XSLT > processor (like xsltproc) and libfop-java to get PDF out. But that > has Java dependencies, is strictly XML, and the Debian dependencies > never seemed quite right to me. I'm interested in XML but I want to tackle that as a "part 2" effort. -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DocBook
I want to restart my DocBook efforts. I have SGML source and want to produce HTML and PDF docs Should I start by installing these packages: docbook, docbook-dsssl? (http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/sgml-howto/x323.html seems out of date) -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Certification
On Friday 14 February 2003 19:17, Arthur H. Johnson II wrote: > Don't forget about LPI. It's pretty decent, and alot of employers know it > pretty well. Really? I did find LPI on a Google of "debian certification" - not that they offered Debian certification. The price seemed reasonable - $100. Don't know if I got that right though. Is this a "paper cert"? What's the other kind of cert - build an enterprise system from scraps heaped in a corner? -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Certification
On Friday 14 February 2003 18:07, Nori Heikkinen wrote: > on Fri, 14 Feb 2003 04:30:40PM -0500, Mike M insinuated: > > I saw a post on the French debian user list where someone suggested > > using the number of your Debian user list posts as your > > certification rating. Clever. > > dude, on my end, that would only rate my curiosity / # of things i > break! ;) curiosity == working brain more broken things = f(more trying) economy is definitely in the crapper; will code for food :-); chasing certs for jobs seems like an enrichment program for certification bodies; -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Certification
On Friday 14 February 2003 13:31, deFreese, Barry wrote: > >-Original Message- > > From: Mike M [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > >Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 8:16 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Certification > > > > > >Certification is for PHBs only. Right? Is there any evidence other than > >marketing blather that certification is a worthwhile endeavor? > >-- > >Mike M. > > Certification is a double-edged sword. I don't know about the Linux world > yet but in the old Novell days and in the M$ world, many organizations will > not hire someone who is not "certified", regardless of their true > experience level or talent. > > Now, the flip side of the problem is that you have VERY talented people who > do not need to be certified getting passed over for jobs and freshly > certified (certifiable? :-) ) morons who couldn't set up a server to save > their lives. > > I think the stigma is changing some after many companies have been burned > hiring the "certified" morons. Heh-heh. Glad to hear it. > However, getting certified is never > necessarily a bad thing. It can be a way to keep up with technology and it > also shows employers that you are willing to continue learning/growing. > > Just my worthless $.02 > > BTW, is there a Debian certification?? ;-) Just kidding. I would be more inclined toward certification it were not such a pure profit opportunity for the administrator; US$750 for a RHCE; 4 digit numbers for MS/Oracle/Cisco/Krispy Kreme certs. To my way of thinking being certified is like being "award winning". The award winning entity never mentions what award it is that they won and where and when they got it and why. Or how much they paid for it. I saw a post on the French debian user list where someone suggested using the number of your Debian user list posts as your certification rating. Clever. (Google's translate function is way cool. ) -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Certification
Certification is for PHBs only. Right? Is there any evidence other than marketing blather that certification is a worthwhile endeavor? -- Mike M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
