Re: Can't get sound to work
On 01/16/2015 04:33 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: snippage The symptoms are not the same as yours. aplay doesn't play sound when I select the PCM device on the command line. But, with audacity, if I explicitly select ALSA as output and device hw:1,0, sound comes out. So, I may have another problem that prevents aplay from running when the PCM device is specified and the above solution may still help you. BTW, I have pulseaudio installed in case it matters. So the advice is to have alsa and pulseaudio? You have to have alsa. That is the sound system. Pulse sits on top of it to direct your sound sources where you want them to be, as in multiple sound devices, speakers and microphones. You can do this on the fly, as in switching between 7.1 to USB head phones for quiet listening. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b97700.2020...@gmail.com
Re: Can't get sound to work
On 01/16/2015 02:56 PM, Robert Latest wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:43:23 -0500 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/15/2015 03:54 PM, Hans wrote: First questions: Are you running pulseaudio or alsa? Did you try alsamixer? Often it is possible, to choose different hardware in the GUI. Did you try other ones, too? Best He's got an asoundrc file in /etc. I thought that use was deprecated some years ago. Maybe if the OP mv;d that file to another name, rebooted and ran alsamixer first, then add pavucontrol along with pulse, he might have a better experience, IMHO. Hi Ric, it's getting weirder: I installed pavucontrol, started it, and started mplayer in some other window. No sound on my headphones, but the little VU bar flashing. Unplugged headphones, sound came from the built in speaker. Plugged headphones back in, pavucontrol sees it and changes from unplugged tp plugged in, still no sound on headphones. With aplay -D hw:0,0 it still works. OK, now trying to remove all pulse-related stuff. You're shooting yourself in the foot. IF alsa won't work, pulse will not either. IF you used pavucontrol, set up your sound sources, then selected playback while the file was playing, you should have seen the volume bar twitching. If it was, did you check to see if the volume was scrolled up to 100%, unmuted, and that the headphone was selected?? Or, is this some headphone plugged into the soundcard audio-out jack? Maybe you're plugged into audio-out (which is non-amplified) instead of the headphone jack, which is? OR if there is just one output jack, which relies on some sort of hardware magic to determine if it should act like audio-out/headphone out, there in lies the problem. PLugging in the headphone, removing it and pugging it in, multiple times might get it to switch correctly. They don't always work right. Get a cheap set of USB headphones and suffer no more. Leave the sound card to drive speakers, which worked, as you mention. That must be the problem as I had that happen trying to plug in some earbuds. The audio-out expects the plugged in device to have it's own amplifier. Headphone out uses the sound card amplifier to drive a non-amplified device, like old headphones. No sound indicates you're in the wrong jack or it fails to auto-select/switch between the two states if there is only one out jack. I bet this is the problem. Refer to your manual if you have it. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b97d8f.2030...@gmail.com
Re: Can't get sound to work
On 01/16/2015 03:51 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 16.01.2015 19:24, Robert Latest a écrit : On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:43:23 -0500 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/15/2015 03:54 PM, Hans wrote: First questions: Are you running pulseaudio or alsa? I don't know. I seem to have both on my system. I don't know what the difference is, or if one is running on top of the other, or if they are fighting over my soundcard. How would an application that wants to play sound figure out which system to use? There are several people more knowledgeable than me around here, but, AFAIK, alsa is the lowest level sound manager. If I am not wrong, pulse audio is built on it. Note that I never tried PA: alsa always worked just fine for me, so why should I try it? I understand the linux Audio stack like this: Alsa == OSS ^ | ^ / \ PA J Alsa is better (why? No idea, just what people says...) than OSS, and then you have 2 frameworks which works over Alsa. PulseAudio (PA, which seems to be POSIX and windows compatible), and Jack (J, which seems to be used by professional applications, for real-time stuff and other. If you simply want sound from flash-player, iceweasel and mplayer... well, removing PA may help you, and it will remove something you do not necessarily need. And, in my opinion, less code running on my computer means less surprises (on my computer), so it's the way I choose. But, I am a minimalist lover (well, at least in computing... for beers per example I have different tastes ;) ). Note that I have no opinion about the quality of pulse audio and jack. Plus, in some cases, I had problems with microphones with Alsa. Maybe in those situations PA or jack would have helped me. Never tried, it was not important enough for me. Maybe if the OP mv;d that file to another name, rebooted and ran alsamixer first, then add pavucontrol along with pulse, he might have a better experience, IMHO. I'll try that (have to install first). If it works, can I then purge all ALSA-related stuff from my system? Or could I also remove all pulse-related stuff and keep ALSA? If you purge alsa-related stuff, you will end with no sound at all. Alsa means Advanced Linux Sound Architecture. It seems to be a driver replacement for OSS. In short, it would be like removing your nouveau/nvidia/intel/whatever driver and trying to run Xorg or weston... Xorg and weston would be PA and Jack, the driver would be alsa. That's what I understand, at least. Jack confuses the heck out of me, and I think it relies on a realtime kernel. I leave that to the true audiophiles who need that degree of response for mostly sound only applications. You are right, alsa is a must have installed. Pulse will only work with a working alsa setup. -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b97e68.8040...@gmail.com
Re: An experiment in backup
On 01/16/2015 12:32 AM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:03 PM, David Christensen dpchr...@holgerdanske.com mailto:dpchr...@holgerdanske.com wrote: On 01/15/2015 08:47 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: I was hoping for some details on why this won't work on system drives, or conditions under which it just might. Another user has suggested I read https://help.ubuntu.com/__community/BackupYourSystem/TAR https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem/TAR which suggests that it actually should work. That would require an in-depth understanding of the Linux kernel, which I don't have. (My answer was geared towards practical system administration; it works reliably for me.) If you want to learn everything required to explain why a file system level self-backup of an operational system drive won't work, or how to make it work (and how to restore it), more power to you. If you would care to post what you find, I'd like to read it. No promises, but I might just take you upon that. I don't think it will take any kernel knowledge, but some of the daemons may be an issue. As a first step, I may take a self-dump then do a fast reboot to another OS or partition, restore the dump to a new place and do a compare. If the list of suspects (outside of /tmp and such) is huge, I may give up. If not, I may learn something. I care because I like to have a lot of free space in my partitions, but I hate to use backup time and space on the holes. Maybe just back up files? Backing up and restoring /proc might be problmatic as it is such a moving target that depends on what you were doing system wide at the time. Restoring it (IMHO) would be akin to time travel. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b98185.6080...@gmail.com
Re: Can't get sound to work
On 01/15/2015 03:54 PM, Hans wrote: First questions: Are you running pulseaudio or alsa? Did you try alsamixer? Often it is possible, to choose different hardware in the GUI. Did you try other ones, too? Best He's got an asoundrc file in /etc. I thought that use was deprecated some years ago. Maybe if the OP mv;d that file to another name, rebooted and ran alsamixer first, then add pavucontrol along with pulse, he might have a better experience, IMHO. I happen to love using pulse, although years ago I was spitting mad at it. Works a charm for me now, especially when using different sound inputs/outputs on the fly. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b85eab.3030...@gmail.com
Re: Directories changing their side when copied!
On 01/14/2015 09:16 AM, Rodolfo Medina wrote: Hi all. I realized that the same directory, once copied onto vfat pendrive with `cp' or also `rsync', have a size (detected with `du') that doesn't match with the source. Different block sizes. http://lists.slug.org.au/public/slug/2004/07/msg3.html :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b6be88.4070...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/13/2015 05:34 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday, January 12, 2015 11:54:54 PM Joel Rees did opine And Gene did reply: 2015/01/13 5:04 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com: On 01/12/2015 11:50 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: You should learn from some REAL security experts, not the internet. Like who? There are compromises all over the net, with consumer security files lying in the open like gutted bleeding fish. I don't think anyone is a REAL security expert, except the ones breaking in. Any advances we have now is result of closing the barn doors after the cow got out. I guess we owe the BlackHats that much. :/ Ric Can I read you as saying that the black hats may be the closest thing to security experts that we have? I was thinking I agree. But I also think we are letting them define security. I keep forgetting that I don't like the definitions they seem to want to impose on us. Joel Rees I'm with Ric on that. We seem to have lost our proactive attitude about security. The net result is predictable in that the lunatics are now running the asylum. Hi Ric. :) Hey Gene! They can't keep a good man down! Did Mandrake finally push up the lilies?? Of course I am not happy with the Blackhats defining security, but if it weren't for them doing their job no one else would. I am jealous that I don't have their brain power. Getting too old, missing a limb and waiting for a triple-bypass. I need some stem cells. Glad to see you here, Gene. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b56554.2050...@gmail.com
Re: unable to boot with systemd (works with sysvinit)
On 01/13/2015 01:36 AM, Johannes Schauer wrote: Hi, Quoting Selim T. Erdoğan (2015-01-12 22:38:08) On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:33:36PM +0100, Johannes Schauer wrote: I'm unable to boot my laptop with systemd which worked before. I'm unable to tell the changes I made since the last time it worked because according to my uptime, the last time I rebooted was September last year. I see you already have a bug report, so including it for the list: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=758808 this is the right bug report. Downgrading to 204-14 fixes the problem I encountered in my first email. My apologies for not having supplied that bug report in my initial email. I honestly forgot that I already faced the same problem in August last year. I eventually just re-installed Jessie fresh. Never a problem afterwards. If something updates, nothing goes boom. I assume it's still not quite ready for the dist-upgrade style of install. At least that was my way of resolving any potential future problems, and it worked for metm :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b568ce.9010...@gmail.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/12/2015 11:50 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: You should learn from some REAL security experts, not the internet. Like who? There are compromises all over the net, with consumer security files lying in the open like gutted bleeding fish. I don't think anyone is a REAL security expert, except the ones breaking in. Any advances we have now is result of closing the barn doors after the cow got out. I guess we owe the BlackHats that much. :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b428aa.7060...@gmail.com
Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/12/2015 02:47 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:37 AM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: You all may wish to read this, from ars technica: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/05/how-crackers-make-minced-meat-out-of-your-passwords/1/ Very interesting. So interesting that I downloaded cudahashcat. I have 96 cuda cores, and it was running the sample program quickly as it tore into 6 char / 2 numeral paaswd combinations. :) Ric Good for you. That article did a much better job of talking about cracking pswords/passcodes/passphrases than my ramble did. p/s for the sake of $deity, please TRIM these posts!! Heh. Still trying to figure out how I pasted that post into the middle of the post. I was dozing of, I'm sure that had something to do with it. I humbly apologize to you as that rant was directed at ALL who let the thread be untrimmed, not you solely. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b43230.2060...@gmail.com
Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/11/2015 06:47 PM, Bob Proulx wrote: Iain M Conochie wrote: These increase in security as you go higher up the number. So (assuming the implementation is secure) my fingerprint (being something I am) is more secure than a password. Also, an ssh-key (being something I have) is more secure than a password. Concerning fingerprints and other biometrics for security... I am sorry to disclose that our site had a security breach. Please change your fingerprints to a new secure fingerprint before using the site. Hmm... I think I would much rather change my password. If you don't wear gloves, you leave your fingerprints all over the place. And, as you mention, you can't change them. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b36300.3090...@gmail.com
Re: remove me from this list
On 01/11/2015 08:09 PM, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 16:30:03 +0100 Lennart Sorensen lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: Well that looks like spam. If a few people mark it as spam it will probably be removed from the archive. Lennart, HEY ! Welcome to the snake pit Back in 1999 when I worked at RedHat, that is what we called the userlist. It was one too. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b3636d.5060...@gmail.com
Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/10/2015 07:42 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 1/10/2015 12:24 AM, scott wrote: On 01/10/2015 12:01 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 1/9/2015 10:24 PM, scott wrote: On 01/09/2015 09:19 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 1/9/2015 8:49 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Martin Steigerwald mar...@lichtvoll.de wrote: Am Freitag, 9. Januar 2015, 00:24:06 schrieb Brian: On Thu 08 Jan 2015 at 22:36:46 +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2015, 14:20:27 schrieb Jerry Stuckle: Just ensure you're using good security practices - don't allow root login, use long, random passwords, etc. I also use a random character strings for the login ids, as well as passwords - just one more thing for the hackers to have to figure out how to get around. Only allow SSH key based logins. Of course, only after you copied a public key onto the machine with ssh-copy-id. And have SSH keys with *strong* passphrases, to protect against someone stealing your key. Use ssh-agent wisely only on trusted machines. SSH password logins are just as safe. 20 characters gives a strong password for use on trusted machines. There is no need to worry about it being stolen because it is in your memory, I think SSH keys are safer, cause there is no password at all that can be brute forced. What do you mean by that? Okay, one can try to guess the key, but try that with a 4096 bit key. Hmm. 10 characters, 6 to 7 bits per character, that's 60 bits. If the bits are truly random, straight brute-force will take, on average, half of 2^60 attempts. We can hold the integer 2^59 in a C variable on most recent desktops, but if we have bc (dc if you like post-fix), we can do this on even 32 bit CPUs: 576460752303423488 (base ten) At one milion attempts per second, that's 5764607523034 seconds, or 182678 CPU-years. There's no way that's going to happen on-line, if the password is truly random, and not randomly a password that's a quick permutation of common memes or of entries in rainbow tables. Actually, 62 possible characters (upper case, lower case and digits), 10 positions is 62^10 or 839,299,365,868,340,224 possible combinations. Adding in special characters obviously would increase that. But there is no way you'll hit a server 1,000,000 times a second trying to brute force a password. I currently use sixteen or more letters in my passwords, don't use simple permutations or common phrases (as for the first leter trick), use disconnected words from multiple languages. Or use 16 character true random passwords for the important stuff. All good suggestions. SSH keys are useful, but you have to keep them somewhere. The real danger to good passwords is the off-line attempts, and the passphrase you use for your private keystore is potentially subject to off-line if your password is. Yes, keys may actually be less secure than passwords. Jerry If you have a dedicated hacker, or hackers, time is on their side. I would much rather use a key with a passphrase. That's fine, if you don't care about security. Lose your laptop and your pass phrase can be broken at a rate of 1 billion attempts per second, since it is local to your machine. There is no way you're going to get even 100 attempts per second into an SSH server. And since the hacker doesn't have direct access to the encrypted password on the server, he can't break it on a local machine. Using the same password/pass phrase for both systems, it would take 10,000,000 times longer to hack the SSH password than your local pass phrase. And then there's the problem you can only access the server from a system with the key file. And the more computers the key file resides on, the less secure it is. Since a password is not stored on any machine (except the server), there is nothing to break. Jerry I replied to your post to me specifically, so I 'll do it here, also. The fact is that if you have physical access to any machine, unfettered, it's game over. Scotty Which is more likely for a hacker to gain physical access to? A laptop you carry around (or even a desktop), or a server in a data center with people on site 24/7? People like Snowden?? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b18081.7080...@gmail.com
Re: Have I been hacked?
You all may wish to read this, from ars technica: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/05/how-crackers-make-minced-meat-out-of-your-passwords/1/ Very interesting. So interesting that I downloaded cudahashcat. I have 96 cuda cores, and it was running the sample program quickly as it tore into 6 char / 2 numeral paaswd combinations. :) Ric p/s for the sake of $deity, please TRIM these posts!! -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b17f95.7060...@gmail.com
Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/09/2015 11:29 AM, Danny wrote: I am an Aircraft Engineer by trade not a Computer Scientist Have you considered that alone would make you a tasty bit to hack, and for that reason, if you have anything tasty on your machine, you REALLY need to clear it up soonest with a complete re-install. I'd add a measure of panic to that level of concern. No need for the black hats to have access at all. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54b021fc.6080...@gmail.com
Re: remove me from this list
On 01/08/2015 02:54 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Talitha Thalya ravencoun...@gmail.com writes: My name was never meant to show up on a google search like this linked to Debian. and dated back in 2001 Not Ok it was meant to go to the cause. this is a misuse of trust. please remove me. name stated in this email address. Thanks Taliban woman 2001 https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2001/04/msg00110.html Let me get this straight -- you put your name on a petition that was requested to get forwarded everywhere possible, and thirteen years later you're surprised to find that it's been saved and indexed by google? Good luck with that. I'd say Debian has a lot more cause to have a beef with Mr. Jackson than you do, since he seemed to feel that a political petition was a valid use of a software developers' mailiing list... Do you understand that your post today is also archived, so you've put your name out to be searched again? Heh, maybe that was the point? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54aee935.4040...@gmail.com
Re: Please stop systemd-fsck on _every_ boot!
On 01/06/2015 07:23 PM, ~Stack~ wrote: I keep seeing all of these posts online saying how easy it is to disable systemd from runing fsck because it honors the '0' in the sixth field of /etc/fstab. Well that's just pure bull$h1t... That was one of the first things I tried some time ago. As far as I can tell on neither of my Jessie machines (one physical one virtual) does systemd honor the fstab in terms of doing a fsck. All of the partitions are set to 0 in /etc/fstab. That doesn't make it bullshit, it means that in your instance it doesn't help. Instead, just maybe your system is trying to tell you something when it continually forces fsck. Read the man page. The trick is to get your poor stupid dumb machine to tell it's human where it hurts and how to fix it. It's like dealing with a puppy that whines. OK, your next message reveals that you are encrypting your drives, including swap?? Insert encrypted hard drive fsck into your search bar. Lately, others report problems. Another thought would be to disable swap, if you have enough memory to see if that helps at all. man swapoff Since it was encrypted no telling what this would do: man swapoff swapoff-f, --fixpgsz Reinitialize (exec /sbin/mkswap) the swap space if its page size does not match that of the current running kernel. mkswap(2) initializes the whole device and does not check for bad blocks. --- At any rate all the fsck'ing is telling you something is broken. That is what it is supposed to do. If you are running luks check this: http://serverfault.com/tags/luks/hot Happy hunting troubleshooting with a shotgun. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54acf7fc.5040...@gmail.com
Re: Have I been hacked?
On 01/06/2015 11:42 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Dienstag, 6. Januar 2015, 20:04:56 schrieb Danny: Hi guys, Hi Danny! A while ago I posted a question about SFTP (I think the thread name was SFTP Question) about attacks I got against my server after syslog warned me about an attempted breakin. You might want to read this and check out your own securityh http://www.clockwork.net/blog/2012/09/28/602/ssh_agent_hijacking It seems too easy. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54ac3ed1.6080...@gmail.com
Re: error opening /media/cdrom0/BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv
On 01/03/2015 10:43 PM, Mike Kupfer wrote: Mike Kupfer wrote: Ric Moore wrote: Trying to automount a dvd for playback and I'm seeing this. I'm seeing these messages, too, even for removable USB drives. (Jessie, amd64, running Xfce.) I filed a bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=774532 Thank you!! My bug-report-fu is lacking master! This happens when I try to automount with vlc. Note, that /media/mountpoint is set non-writable. in my case, where it uses /media/cdrom0 ...which is odd as a cdrom is USUALLY non-writable but it's attempting to find that ../BDMV/index.bdmv file there. It must be some ruleset set wrongly somewhere. That we certainly have in common. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a9b738.8030...@gmail.com
Re: How to undo Java installation and settings
On 01/03/2015 05:12 PM, Dalios wrote: On 01/03/2015 08:31 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 01/03/2015 03:06 AM, Dalios wrote: Hello all, a few days ago I had to install Java in a laptop in order for a web application to be able to function properly. I followed directions found in the internet (mostly the debian wiki and the Adobe download page). It would have been far easier to use synaptic, then check the java packages that you wanted and let it install them. A couple of minutes later and you would have been done. Now I want to uninstall Java and undo all settings to go were I was before all this got started. It would have been just as easy to uninstall the packages with synaptic. But, since you opted to do all of those alternatives links by hand, you'll have to delete them yourself. What webpage provided these instructions? :) Ric According to the info I found on the Debian wiki the package is not there to be installed with Synaptic: Sun Java is no longer available in the repositories (wiki.debian.org/Java/Sun). That is correct. But the regular ole icedtea package and openjdk are in the repos, since they are legit to have. I can't find the how-to that I followed to do the installation (when I wrote the first mail this morning I thought that it was from the Debian wiki but since I can't find it I assume that it is from a Debian user forum or from a Debian derivative forum or something similar). Anyway I purged the packages that were installed and I removed the (symbolic) links that were created with the ln command. But there are some commands that I don't know how to undo and if it is even necessary. These commands are: snippage If you want Oracle Java then the easiest way to do it is to use the Oracle Java Installer from: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/06/how-to-install-oracle-java-7-in-debian.html It is swt! And, it correctly sets all of the alternatives and adds some you might not ever heard of. It is complete, works flawlessly every time I've used it for the last several years. Plus, it updates automagically when needed, the Debian way. What is installed is just a script (that is the legal part for Debian) and it handles downloading Oracle Java 7, installing it in /usr/lib/jvm where it should be, and then setting up alternatives. The guy that did this is sharp! He also has a Java 8 version, which I tried, but I settled back on 7. Enjoy! Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a9b9c9.4010...@gmail.com
Re: error opening /media/cdrom0/BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv
On 01/04/2015 04:57 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 01/03/2015 10:43 PM, Mike Kupfer wrote: Mike Kupfer wrote: Ric Moore wrote: Trying to automount a dvd for playback and I'm seeing this. I'm seeing these messages, too, even for removable USB drives. (Jessie, amd64, running Xfce.) I filed a bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=774532 Thank you!! My bug-report-fu is lacking master! This happens when I try to automount with vlc. Note, that /media/mountpoint is set non-writable. in my case, where it uses /media/cdrom0 ...which is odd as a cdrom is USUALLY non-writable but it's attempting to find that ../BDMV/index.bdmv file there. It must be some ruleset set wrongly somewhere. That we certainly have in common. :) Ric If anyone has a clue where the rule would be on the file system to automount a dvd would be I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I have to wonder if other problems like mounting a USB device would be related to trying to use a mount point that is unwritable and/or doesn't exist. I hope you get feedback from your bug report, Mike. Please keep us all posted. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54aa1da4.8040...@gmail.com
Re: Re: error opening /media/cdrom0/BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv
Ric Moore wrote: Trying to automount a dvd for playback and I'm seeing this. I'm seeing these messages, too, even for removable USB drives. (Jessie, amd64, running Xfce.) Jan 1 15:50:52 allegro kernel: [314184.131707] EXT4-fs (sdb1): mounting ext3 file system using the ext4 subsystem Jan 1 15:50:53 allegro kernel: [314184.560555] EXT4-fs (sdb1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null) Jan 1 15:50:53 allegro udisksd[1280]: Mounted /dev/sdb1 at /media/kupfer/external on behalf of uid 1000 Jan 1 15:50:53 allegro org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor[1190]: index_parse.c:191: indx_parse(): error opening /media/kupfer/external/BDMV/index.bdmv Jan 1 15:50:53 allegro org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor[1190]: index_parse.c:191: indx_parse(): error opening /media/kupfer/external/BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv I'm finding almost zip using google. Basically, it seems automount is looking for something that doesn't exist. I think it's related to blueray but removal of libbluray rips out half the system as depends. Anyone have a clue towards this? The web searches I did yesterday suggested something to do with gvfs and/or libbluray (well, libbluray1). Mike! I fixed the darn thing. not through any huge amount of code-fu, but I took a shot in the dark. I had autofs installed. Nixed that. It didn't seem to do anything. I installed udisks-glue, which added udisks. Funny that as udisk2 was already installed. When it was done installing my DVD automounted (and I got a popup announcing the fact!) and then VLC came to life and ran the DVD. (Dark Shadows!) It seems I spend half the year enjoying autoplay of DVD's and the other half trying to fix it. This might be a fix for everyone else with automount related problems. I'm as happy as a little clam. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54aa3106.9090...@gmail.com
Re: sig1-gr
On 01/03/2015 03:06 AM, Dalios wrote: Hello all, a few days ago I had to install Java in a laptop in order for a web application to be able to function properly. I followed directions found in the internet (mostly the debian wiki and the Adobe download page). It would have been far easier to use synaptic, then check the java packages that you wanted and let it install them. A couple of minutes later and you would have been done. Now I want to uninstall Java and undo all settings to go were I was before all this got started. It would have been just as easy to uninstall the packages with synaptic. But, since you opted to do all of those alternatives links by hand, you'll have to delete them yourself. What webpage provided these instructions? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a8357a.1000...@gmail.com
Re: alternatives for a proprietary lib file
On 01/03/2015 11:29 AM, Sam Halliday wrote: Hi all, I have a license for the Intel Math Kernel Library which has a file /opt/intel/mkl/lib/intel64/libmkl_rt.so that provides a lot of interfaces, such as BLAS/CBLAS (i.e. libblas.so.3) and LAPACK (i.e. liblapack.so.3). I'd like to be able to use the Debian alternatives system to point at this file, without having to manually create symbolic links. Does anybody know how I can do this? Much of the documentation I have found is related to usage of alternatives, not the creation of a new alternative for a file. Ideally, it would be nice to be able to create a little .deb package that simply provides the option to use this library as an alternative and to give it the highest priority. Check out galternatives. Works a charm and it's easy to use, even for the complete idiot. :) Ric. -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a83651.20...@gmail.com
error opening /media/cdrom0/BDMV/BACKUP/index.bdmv
Trying to automount a dvd for playback and I'm seeing this. I'm finding almost zip using google. Basically, it seems automount is looking for something that doesn't exist. I think it's related to blueray but removal of libbluray rips out half the system as depends. Anyone have a clue towards this? Thanks, Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a725fa.5080...@gmail.com
Re: Continuing to use SysV; LTS
On 12/31/2014 02:32 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: Really, your expectations are unrealistic, especially since you don't know my clients, their business, their employees' qualifications and a whole lot of other things about them. But, they will pay money out to go distro shopping, reconfiguring all the existing installations to the new distro, etc. Which means someone is getting paid billable hours, eh?? Maybe you could talk them into investing that money into Devuan and spare themselves the headaches? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a45862.7090...@gmail.com
Re: Question about MultiArch and dependencies
On 12/31/2014 12:25 AM, Gary Dale wrote: On 30/12/14 06:47 PM, Raphaël Halimi wrote: Le 30/12/2014 17:23, Gary Dale a écrit : Then again, knowing how to ask a question is also important. It would Then again, not everybody is born in an english-speaking country. seem that your real concern is having two terminals on the menu. It is _one_ of my concerns. The other one being apt not resolving these dependencies the way I expected it to. Unlike you, Sven understood the question immediately and unlike you, he gave an appropriate answer. I filed a bug report against mate-terminal. Problem solved. However, did you actually test that it would happen? Would installing the multiarch version give you two xterms or would the last one installed overwrite the first? Could you simply remove the second menu item if one did in fact show up? Did you try removing the mate version of xterm before installing the one steam prefers? What does it have to do with my initial question about dependencies resolving ? Stop trying to justify yourself and just admit you were gratuitously rude to someone you mistook for a newbie. There is an old saying that it is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. If you want to report a bug, report it. If you want a solution to a problem, ask for help. I'd like to find out what happens if you try the solutions that I have suggested. I've got multiple terminals on my setup and it's never bothered me. I use the one I like most. That's a nice thing about Linux. But you apparently feel differently. That's also your choice. Has your bug report been addressed yet? I thought that was a feature, where you can just download all the things for free. You all made me look. I have installed: Gnome Term 1155k XFCE Term 1559k Xterm 1750k For what I pay the packagers, I can live with it. I think the points Dale raised were not disrespectful in any way. Maybe multiarch pulled in a 32bit xterm? That is quite possible. You would need one ya know, running 32bit apps one of them, like steam, would probably demand it. Just checked, steam does. But you already knew that. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly or idiot-friendly. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a397eb.3040...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/29/2014 06:44 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 12/29/2014 1:22 AM, Ric Moore wrote: On 12/28/2014 10:58 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 12/28/2014 5:54 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Sunday 28 December 2014 00:20:20 Celejar wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:02:52 -0500 Jerry Stuckle stuckleje...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/11/2014 1:23 PM, Brian wrote: On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 12:11:26 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I often give presentations with my notebook. If I'm lucky, I get 10-15 minutes to set up. If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another presenter ahead of me). I use Linux whenever possible, but since my time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete. Your type of situation is well understood and there is sympathy for it. I appreciate that - but unfortunately, sympathy doesn't solve the problem :) Someone may have suggested this, and I know it doesn't really solve the core problem, but perhaps consider suspending (to disk or ram) instead of shutting down when you have a presentation scheduled? Again, that is a way round the problem not a solution to it. A facility that was available no longer is. Whether it should be, is an entirely different question. Lisi Lisi, While I agree it's only a way around a problem and not a solution, I do appreciate people trying to help out. And while I would prefer a solution, it looks like that's not going to happen. So, unfortunately, after many years as a Debian user, I'm looking at other options. My clients are looking, also, although not every one has made the decision to switch yet. What's wrong with sticking with Wheezy for the next couple of years?? I haven't had my ext4 file system want to fsck in eons. Several times I have MADE it do a check on the next boot, just to check, and a Tbyte of storage was fscked in about 10-15 seconds. Not as easy as you think. I write device drivers; for instance, one of my customers manufacturers microprocessor-based systems. Right now they are using Debian, but are now looking for another distro. It's not something they do lightly or quickly; even now they may not have time before service is dropped for Wheezy. And I need to be running the same software they are. Besides, I never did buy that bit about doing a complete dist-upgrade to Jessie (testing!) and then expecting to do a presentation to clients without a complete shakedown. I'd shoot myself first. I know you know better. Where did I ever say I wouldn't do a complete shakedown? But this is the type of bug which can bite you weeks or months after the install. It doesn't occur minutes, hours or even days later. And Murphy says it will happen at the worst possible time. Can we not let this pitiful excuse for a thread JUST DIE?? :/ Ric This is a Debian User list. Why don't you want bugs which affect Debian users discussed here? And that's what I have seen here - at least until you started complaining about the thread. There we differ. You consider it a bug, and I consider it a feature. When I googled on the topic there was a Hail Mary chorus shouting DO not interrupt fsck! It's BAD!. Ergo the consensus of opinion that if it is critical enough, do not allow it to be interrupted. Tough titties, as the process is for your own good. It's a small price to pay when you look back at the days when a Windows server HAD to go down at 3AM for maintenance (defrag, which took quite awhile) while we laughed and laughed at the stupid lamers who used it and suffered. I know I did. But, you sure as hell wouldn't interrupt a Windows full defrag process half-way through, would you? We've had it easy, so I consider it a feature. I'll take a 20 second inconvenience any day. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a19d2f.1040...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/29/2014 06:44 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: This is a Debian User list. Why don't you want bugs which affect Debian users discussed here? And that's what I have seen here - at least until you started complaining about the thread. I don't think I'm the only one complaining about this Saint Jude lost cause. If only we put as much effort into World Peace. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a19def.3010...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/29/2014 08:51 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 12/29/2014 1:27 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 12/29/2014 06:44 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 12/29/2014 1:22 AM, Ric Moore wrote: On 12/28/2014 10:58 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 12/28/2014 5:54 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Sunday 28 December 2014 00:20:20 Celejar wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:02:52 -0500 Jerry Stuckle stuckleje...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/11/2014 1:23 PM, Brian wrote: On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 12:11:26 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I often give presentations with my notebook. If I'm lucky, I get 10-15 minutes to set up. If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another presenter ahead of me). I use Linux whenever possible, but since my time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete. Your type of situation is well understood and there is sympathy for it. I appreciate that - but unfortunately, sympathy doesn't solve the problem :) Someone may have suggested this, and I know it doesn't really solve the core problem, but perhaps consider suspending (to disk or ram) instead of shutting down when you have a presentation scheduled? Again, that is a way round the problem not a solution to it. A facility that was available no longer is. Whether it should be, is an entirely different question. Lisi Lisi, While I agree it's only a way around a problem and not a solution, I do appreciate people trying to help out. And while I would prefer a solution, it looks like that's not going to happen. So, unfortunately, after many years as a Debian user, I'm looking at other options. My clients are looking, also, although not every one has made the decision to switch yet. What's wrong with sticking with Wheezy for the next couple of years?? I haven't had my ext4 file system want to fsck in eons. Several times I have MADE it do a check on the next boot, just to check, and a Tbyte of storage was fscked in about 10-15 seconds. Not as easy as you think. I write device drivers; for instance, one of my customers manufacturers microprocessor-based systems. Right now they are using Debian, but are now looking for another distro. It's not something they do lightly or quickly; even now they may not have time before service is dropped for Wheezy. And I need to be running the same software they are. Besides, I never did buy that bit about doing a complete dist-upgrade to Jessie (testing!) and then expecting to do a presentation to clients without a complete shakedown. I'd shoot myself first. I know you know better. Where did I ever say I wouldn't do a complete shakedown? But this is the type of bug which can bite you weeks or months after the install. It doesn't occur minutes, hours or even days later. And Murphy says it will happen at the worst possible time. Can we not let this pitiful excuse for a thread JUST DIE?? :/ Ric This is a Debian User list. Why don't you want bugs which affect Debian users discussed here? And that's what I have seen here - at least until you started complaining about the thread. There we differ. You consider it a bug, and I consider it a feature. When I googled on the topic there was a Hail Mary chorus shouting DO not interrupt fsck! It's BAD!. Ergo the consensus of opinion that if it is critical enough, do not allow it to be interrupted. Tough titties, as the process is for your own good. I agree it's not a good idea to interrupt fsck WHEN IT IS FIXING A PROBLEM. A routine test when there is no indication of a problem is a completely different story. It's a small price to pay when you look back at the days when a Windows server HAD to go down at 3AM for maintenance (defrag, which took quite awhile) while we laughed and laughed at the stupid lamers who used it and suffered. I know I did. It can be a HUGE problem. For instance - maybe I'm getting ready to make a presentation to a VP of a client's company. The success of this project depends on my presentation being more successful than another consultants. fsck running right then can easily cost me tens of thousands of dollars over the course of the contract. Are YOU willing to reimburse me for that loss? But, you sure as hell wouldn't interrupt a Windows full defrag process half-way through, would you? We've had it easy, so I consider it a feature. I'll take a 20 second inconvenience any day. :) Ric I can, and I have, when it runs at an inconvenient time. Windows allows this, and terminates the defrag gracefully. That's one thing Windows has on Debian. Just because it's OK for YOU to have fsck to run any time it wants does NOT mean it's ok for everyone else. Running ext4, the only time it has run fsck for me is when it had to. Otherwise I run it manually just to be sure. And that's what this thread is all about - how to stop it from happening. But it will probably not matter to me, anyway. My clients are looking for alternatives to Debian just because of crap like this. And we're talking a lot of Debian systems running
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/28/2014 10:58 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 12/28/2014 5:54 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Sunday 28 December 2014 00:20:20 Celejar wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:02:52 -0500 Jerry Stuckle stuckleje...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/11/2014 1:23 PM, Brian wrote: On Thu 11 Dec 2014 at 12:11:26 -0500, Jerry Stuckle wrote: I often give presentations with my notebook. If I'm lucky, I get 10-15 minutes to set up. If I'm not, less than 5 minutes (i.e. another presenter ahead of me). I use Linux whenever possible, but since my time slot is limited, I can't wait for fsck to complete. Your type of situation is well understood and there is sympathy for it. I appreciate that - but unfortunately, sympathy doesn't solve the problem :) Someone may have suggested this, and I know it doesn't really solve the core problem, but perhaps consider suspending (to disk or ram) instead of shutting down when you have a presentation scheduled? Again, that is a way round the problem not a solution to it. A facility that was available no longer is. Whether it should be, is an entirely different question. Lisi Lisi, While I agree it's only a way around a problem and not a solution, I do appreciate people trying to help out. And while I would prefer a solution, it looks like that's not going to happen. So, unfortunately, after many years as a Debian user, I'm looking at other options. My clients are looking, also, although not every one has made the decision to switch yet. What's wrong with sticking with Wheezy for the next couple of years?? I haven't had my ext4 file system want to fsck in eons. Several times I have MADE it do a check on the next boot, just to check, and a Tbyte of storage was fscked in about 10-15 seconds. Besides, I never did buy that bit about doing a complete dist-upgrade to Jessie (testing!) and then expecting to do a presentation to clients without a complete shakedown. I'd shoot myself first. I know you know better. Can we not let this pitiful excuse for a thread JUST DIE?? :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54a0f323.5050...@gmail.com
Re: USB drive mounted Read-only; what to do ?
On 12/21/2014 04:31 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On one hand I don't think it's such a big burden to use su/do or similar for this type of operation, on the other hand it's slightly easier to pick the wrong device and destroy your data. Andrei, the issue of IF the pen-drive was automounted on insertion has not been raised. What do you think?? Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/549726e6.2090...@gmail.com
Re: wordperfect 5.1 for unix, and debian?
On 12/19/2014 02:42 PM, Jape Person wrote: On 12/19/2014 02:22 PM, Curt wrote: On 2014-12-19, Karen Lewellen klewel...@shellworld.net wrote: My choices work for me, and I am more than willing to respect the choices of others, even if I have zero need or desire to emulate them. Thanks again for the comments, I consider this thread to be closed, at least for me. I don't think anyone was requiring or requesting your emulation. I'm keeping this thread *open* for the usual useless bickering. Happy Holidays, Curt I disagree strongly that the bickering is useless -- unless, of course, it is emulated bickering. Speaking of which, I saw an emu the other day. Can anyone explain how an emu differs from a dosemu? The lack of horns. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54949f06.4030...@gmail.com
Re: wordperfect 5.1 for unix, and debian?
On 12/19/2014 09:41 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 04:49:04PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote: hm whatever deepens your sense of self lol! Happy Holidays to you and everyone, Don't forget to have a Merry christmas! Chris, I'm looking forward to a change in my meds! Merry Pharmaceutical Xmas! Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5494f478.2020...@gmail.com
Re: wordperfect 5.1 for unix, and debian? (more)
On 12/16/2014 11:41 PM, Doug wrote: On 12/16/2014 10:57 PM, Doug wrote: On 12/16/2014 10:44 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote: Greetings everyone, I have a still in the package copy of wordperfect 5.1 for UNIX. I got this because wordperfect is my main word processor on my primary computer and I would welcome, if at all possible, to use it with Linux as well. Is there any reason why the program cannot be installed on a machine running Debian squeeze? My interest is in logistics, as I realize the software may be better suited for networks, not individual computers. Thanks, Karen There was once (around 1995?) a WordPerfect version for Linux. It worked, but it had terrible fonts. It has not been possible to install that for at least the past 4 years, and probably longer, as the dependencies can no longer be met. I have WordPerfect12 working on the latest PCLinuxOS KDE, but not the spread sheet. It doesn't look real nice on the screen, and it comes up with some difficulty, but it is usable, if you are stubborn. I also have Corel Draw 9 and the corresponding PhotoPaint working. Both of WP and draw are running in WINE. --doug Just a little follow-up to the last post. I don't like OpenOffice or LibreOffice because I don't like the strait-jacket they put you in. Which is what?? It certainly isn't the price. :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5491c7ff.7020...@gmail.com
Re: wordperfect 5.1 for unix, and debian? (more)
On 12/17/2014 07:43 PM, Charlie wrote: On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 13:14:23 -0500 Ric Moore sent: snip Just a little follow-up to the last post. I don't like OpenOffice or LibreOffice because I don't like the strait-jacket they put you in. Which is what?? It certainly isn't the price. :/ Ric Actually, I was going to ask that but thought it might be a silly question? So thanks for asking it. Because it would be interesting to know what sort of strait jacket I'm bound into when using LibreOffice. Hopefully, not one of the rubber ones. They itch. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54922cdd.40...@gmail.com
Re: Flash problems
On 12/16/2014 10:25 AM, maderios wrote: On 12/16/2014 11:47 AM, Paul van der Vlis wrote: wget https://vandervlis.nl/files/libflashplayer.so 32-bits: wget https://vandervlis.nl/files/libflashplayer32.so mv libflashplayer32.so libflashplayer.so Warning This is an unknow link... :-( Official/safe files are here : https://get.adobe.com/fr/flashplayer/ just go here: http://www.webupd8.org/2014/05/install-fresh-player-plugin-in-ubuntu.html If you have google chrome installed you already have pepperflash or install it with synaptic. Then create a directory in ~/.config ric@iam:~/.config$ mkdir freshwrapper-data ric@iam:~/.config$ cd freshwrapper-data/ copy this script https://raw.githubusercontent.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin/master/data/freshwrapper.conf.example ric@iam:~/.config/freshwrapper-data$ nano freshwrapper.conf ...and add it to this restart firefox and click on some flash content. It took almost a minute to crank up and the sound stuttered a bit longer (self config?) until it worked properly. Now, it works on all flash files. I'm still dinking with the sound settings though. This is BETA !! I'm getting audio stutter still at times. But, firefox doesn't blow up now. Good Luck! Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54906879.1020...@gmail.com
Re: making sound work in Jessie - how?
On 12/13/2014 09:40 PM, Paul E Condon wrote: On 20141213_1926-0500, Ric Moore wrote: On 12/13/2014 06:43 PM, Paul E Condon wrote: What packages should I make sure are properly installed? pavucontrol is usually missed. You need it to admin pulse. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 Thanks for the email. But perhaps you could give me more. I think my netinstall missed a whole bunch of stuff, like the people configuring the install task package forgot ot include a big bunch of stuff. When you installed the sound on you computer what did you install manually, not just the one that you are always kicking yourself for forgetting, the nine yards. You should have synaptic installed to help you select packages first. I couldn't live without it! Then make sure you have alsa installed completely. next search on pulse and install pavucontrol which is not installed by default. I've bitched about that, as you cannot admin pulse without it. So, for sound, alsa is what everything depends on. So, run alsamixer from a terminal command line. Make sure your audio devices are not muted and sound levels a point or two from being 100% high. If alsa doesn't work, pulse has no chance since it sits on top of alsa. Then run pavucontrol and you'll get a graphical admin front-end for pulse. . -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548f2156.4050...@gmail.com
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
On 12/14/2014 04:38 PM, John Hasler wrote: berenger.morel writes: In France, the electric network provide 220V to everyone. In the USA as well. The normal wall outlets are 110 but 220 is brought into the house and used for things like stoves. The power utility's transformer has a 220V secondary with a grounded center tap so that you get 220V line to line or 110 from either line to neutral. 110V outlets are distributed equally between the two sides so as to balance the load. The usual service is 200 amps at 220V so you could run your mainframe. Not without dimming the lights some. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548f25f8.3040...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
Is it just me or on an ext4 file system when was the last time anyone had an fsck? It's been ages since I last had one. Inquiring minds, Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548ad4ed.8000...@gmail.com
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
On 12/12/2014 07:47 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 12.12.2014 11:43, claude juif a écrit : If i had to answer this question the way i understand it i will say : Browsers, Mails and sometimes Games. This is how i understand typical home computer today. Is this typical use, or average use? :p Because I would add, to typical, office suits uses, but I would not add it to average. Plus, now, it can be made trough browsing. That's an example of why people here are saying that the original question is too wide, imprecise. And I would add, useless. Because people adapt their computer environment to their uses, and if I agree that there are patterns, I disagree that there are typical uses. Suppose we leave it as if the machine will run on household power or require 220 volts? I kept a Unisys 5000/90 that required 220V at 80 amps just to boot the thing one of four 250 pound harddrives at a time. I moved from a house to an unused bank building (Yeah, it had a vault and an elevator!) where I had the juice to run it. It was cheaper than renting the house! It was great fun until the electric bill increased by $100 for the month. That would NOT be a home computer, even though I made the place my living industrial home. I highly recommend it for a bachelor. So maybe we could consider a standard for home computer that it runs on 110V with less than X amount of watts? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548b7517.1020...@gmail.com
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
On 12/12/2014 07:28 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 11.12.2014 20:38, Ric Moore a écrit : On 12/11/2014 01:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote: So much metaphorical male ovine faeces. And, that is not directed at Lisi; just at the people trying to impose their dubious opinions and classifications, of what is, and, what has been, and, of what should be. Do you suppose Debian has become refuge for former XP users?? :) Ric Well... actually, I was a XP user from ages. I still have one that I can run from time to time, also. I'm proud of that, I believe it allows me to compare if Debian is better or worse than XP, and the answer is not always straight. That's Linux! Never straight but always forward. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548b7a49.8050...@gmail.com
Re: Two monitors on a Matrox G450.
On 12/12/2014 09:34 PM, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: From: Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:37:09 -0500 Is this in a desktop machine? Can you remove the board? If so, is there a window nearby? Then, open the window and throw that board out. :) Will aim for a recycling bin about 2 km distant. Older nVidia boards, ten times as capable as that Matrox device, go for $20, or less, all day long. Will see what else was donated. From: Sven Hartge s...@svenhartge.de Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 00:19:45 +0100 So, please, put this graphics card to rest and just use a cheap, fanless Nvidia or ATI ... See above. Thanks fellows, ... Peter E. It's all heartbreak out there. Our computers are the worst of mistresses. But, you still love them. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548bd2ed.9050...@gmail.com
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
On 12/12/2014 06:30 PM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2014 18:07:03 -0500 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: So maybe we could consider a standard for home computer that it runs on 110V with less than X amount of watts? Except that for the greater part of the world it would be 220 Volts... Ah, OK then. Maybe just wattage/amperage? A machine like the one I had would melt light home wiring at 80 amps, so not a home machine. Maybe we could say if it uses more juice than your electric stove it's not a home computer? I like simple. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548bd477.1080...@gmail.com
Re: How is typical home computer used today?
On 12/11/2014 01:17 AM, Bret Busby wrote: So much metaphorical male ovine faeces. And, that is not directed at Lisi; just at the people trying to impose their dubious opinions and classifications, of what is, and, what has been, and, of what should be. Do you suppose Debian has become refuge for former XP users?? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489f2b5.1060...@gmail.com
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
On 12/11/2014 11:33 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Well... this model is still very used in enterprises. I do not speak about those old mainframes which are still bought by very huge corporations (at least, I've heard so) Huh? :D Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5489f78c.7080...@gmail.com
Re: Two monitors on a Matrox G450.
On 12/11/2014 10:40 AM, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: A CRT monitor and an IBM flat monitor are connected to a Matrox G450 adapter. Please, I am not trying to be rude here. cackles but here it comes... Is this in a desktop machine? Can you remove the board? If so, is there a window nearby? Then, open the window and throw that board out. :) Older nVidia boards, ten times as capable as that Matrox device, go for $20, or less, all day long. I had a very old 5200 running two monitors. It was shaky as merry hell, but it worked. Didja try here?: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/support/drivers/download/?id=143 (this is from 2006) ...or root around in here?: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/support/drivers/previous/menu/ Otherwise, try apt-get install matroxset and see if that helps. Synaptic recommends several other packages as well, searching on matrox. OR, just expect less of this video setup and live with it. If you have an older laptop with Matrox chipset video in it, I guess there isn't a lot of hope there for what you want to do, as Sven mentioned. I have to give them credit, it seems that Matrox is now more for industrial video wall setups nowadays, big time. Good luck! :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548a0e85.5040...@gmail.com
Re: Bridging and VLANs?
On 12/11/2014 03:45 PM, Tim Nelson wrote: Greetings- I have an interesting situation that requires bridging some VLAN enabled interfaces together on a Debian 7.x x86 system. On the host, there is a single physical interface passing traffic natively (eth0), and two tagged VLANs also passing traffic (eth0.2 and eth0.3). The use case is that I need to bridge eth0 with eth0.2, allowing layer two traffic to pass seamlessly between interfaces, yet still leave eth0.3 in a usable state. The switch this system is connected to is for all intents and purposes outside of my control, which is the reason for the odd network setup. What I'm finding by simply creating a new bridge br0 with members eth0 and eth0.2 is no connectivity on eth0.2, and slow/quirky connectivity on eth0 (native connectivity to Debian 7.x host). In doing research, I've found suggestions of adding the VLAN interfaces to the bridge direct, resulting in a br0, br0.2, and br0.3, but the results were the same. Also, it has been suggested to use ebtables to filter the VLANs at layer 2, but I had no luck there either. I'm hoping someone can shed light on what needs to be done for a successful bridge of eth0/eth0.2, with an intact eth0.3 (point to point link between Debian 7.x host and another device). All pointers, tips, tricks welcome. Tim, I am a complete idiot in that situation setting up vlan(s). If this is a dedicated headless server, to a localnet or the Internet, I just installed Proxmox (proxmox to debian wheezy is the standard install) and it works out of the box. Then I can install KVM(s) to that for special custom applications or select from several hundred pre-setup containers from TurnKey Linux, without beating my brains out setting them up from obscure howto's designed to make you purchase support, just to get them running. It's better than Windows for the setup Complete Idiot! And, it's Debian based and free! Suffer no more. :) Ric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDMLNAxYbI -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548a156c.4060...@gmail.com
Re: 9p/plumber to replace D-Bus?
On 12/08/2014 10:43 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: About anachronism... you should read about what is the minitel*, and then, consider thinking about how most people uses their computers ;) *: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel Anyone remember GTE Telemail?? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54888498.4000...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/10/2014 12:53 AM, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote: All this just because you won't admit that It's gotten to the point that wholesale deleting of this topic is in order. :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548883be.8020...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/10/2014 12:55 PM, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote: On 10/12/2014 20:32, Ric Moore wrote: On 12/10/2014 12:53 AM, tv.deb...@googlemail.com wrote: All this just because you won't admit that It's gotten to the point that wholesale deleting of this topic is in order. :/ Ric Yes, that, earplugs and blindfold, makes for quiet days. Sorry but I didn't ask you to comment on this, you're just free to do it, so am I. I don't recall asking permission from you to do so. :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548891bb.1070...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/08/2014 06:41 AM, Christian Groessler wrote: On 12/08/14 12:04, Mart van de Wege wrote: Christian Groessler ch...@groessler.org writes: On 12/08/14 09:44, Curt wrote: On 2014-12-08, Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: Actually, it's *always* a surprise. These fsck happen at long enough intervals, that I can never know if it was 4 months ago or 7 months ago, and neither can I remember which laptop/desktop has the delay set to 172 days vs 194 days vs 98 days vs ... Can't you write a small script to obviate the limitations of your human memory, like this little hacker here did? http://nwalsh.com/hacks/mountinfo/ http://nwalsh.com/hacks/mountinfo/mountinfo Why don't the systemd proponents understand that someone might want to interrupt a running fsck? Don't scrutinize the reasons, just accept the fact. I understand it just fine. I just don't understand why this is a big deal, as it could have been easily avoided. This is a case of Doctor, it hurts when I do this. Well, don't do that then. What shouldn't I do? Boot my system? use a journaling file system like ext4 ?? Of course that would require a major backup and restore, but that would get you the closest to where you want to be. How big is that harddrive any way?? It must be a monster drive for fsck to be an major issue. like for this guy: http://grokbase.com/t/centos/centos/119dg0by5y/how-to-stop-an-in-progress-fsck-that-runs-at-boot ...it is suggested there to use tune2fs (man tune2fs) before you shut down to go do your public display and reset the fsck counter. So, you can be in charge of your computer if you do it the way it likes you to be in charge. I've been married 3 1/2 times and I can tell you from my vast experience that a computer is little different from an ex-wife. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5485e92c.7040...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/08/2014 07:06 AM, Bonno Bloksma wrote: Actually, THAT is the very reason we ask for the option to be able to cancel a running fsck. You can never predict EVERY situation when fsck would be run but needed to be avoided. Maybe I asked a non tech to simply turn on the machine, how technical does one need to be to do that. I would most certainly instruct such a person to NOT make any choices during boot but let it run with the default. All those suggestions with auto changing the boot options would not help and the system would run fsck. With modern harddisk sizes that would pretty much guarantee that the disk would be 500GB or even 1TB. That person would then call me and I would know exactly what is going on but my only choice would be to say, touch luck, just wait. Too bad you will now be too late for . Keep in mind that interrupting fsck is regarded as a very very bad practice by every link brought by a google search using key words interrupting fsck. All sorts of doom to your file system is predicted in each. It's been that way since I first installed Linux via Slackware floppies. I can't imagine ALL of them being stupid. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5485eca3.4070...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/08/2014 09:09 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: Anyhow, I've gained something from this thread. I didn't know that I could get rid of fsck by the simple expedient of C^c. Yes, I know that it is obvious, and I can't believe that I didn't even try it, but I clearly didn't. Maybe, like me, it's because you've been told it's a bad thing to do since the days of Slackware installs from floppy disks. I have never tried to interrupt it. But, I use the old Caldera scheme of keeping all personal data on /opt which is on it's own partition. All of my /home major directories (video, desktop, music. documents) are links to /opt/ric. So, an fsck on / isn't as painful as it could be. If I had tb's of data storage, I would be miffed too by an unexpected fsck at the wrong time. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5486146c.3030...@gmail.com
Re: Failed to install VLC from wheezy backports
On 12/08/2014 11:30 AM, Tony van der Hoff wrote: Hi, I'm trying to install a recent VLC on my wheezy box, but: root@tony-fr:~# apt-get -t wheezy-backports install vlc Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have snippage Anyone know how to fix this? I upgraded to Jessie over the very same problem. VLC for wheezy was making me crazy. No problems to report other than some initial burps due to the massive upgrade. Keep a live boot DVD for Jessie handy. If you come to need it, it's best to have created one previous. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54861927.4030...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/08/2014 11:56 AM, The Wanderer wrote: A slightly better one might be if the travel agent offered alternative routes by land and sea, but no other air-travel options to the same destination - and then reacted condescendingly when the traveller insisted that they really do need air travel in this case. I thought the original complaint was that after a full upgrade to Jessie and systemd, that it was not possible to halt the following fsck. Heck, that could be by design?? Before that entire process was complete, someone decided a complete fsck was in order and not to be screwed with by user? Could happen, That would sound like a sane choice. I'm reduced to trouble shooting with a shotgun now. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548615f7.5010...@gmail.com
Re: no microphone in skype
On 12/07/2014 05:06 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Sb, 06 dec 14, 23:57:00, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote: Is skype 4.3.0.37-1 working for anyone running Jessie with the following pulseaudio version? rajulocal@hogwarts:~$ pulseaudio --version pulseaudio 5.0 Works here. I'm on Sid, but due to the freeze most package versions are the same as Jessie. pulseaudio is currently purged because I found no way to turn the (laptop internal) microphone OFF! pavucontrol couldn't handle that?? Yeow. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54849783.6040...@gmail.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 12/07/2014 06:03 AM, Alex wrote: This is 'theft' of bandwidth for which I PAY, which is for my exclusive use only - NOT some snooping, mongrel, NSA lapdog with way too much money. Not only is this theft but it is also done under subterfuge by using an unrelated domain name - itwa.net. Library of Tibetan Works Archives Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5484992e.30...@gmail.com
Re: Iceweasel Latest update stealing bandwidth uselessly
On 12/07/2014 02:51 PM, Clive Standbridge wrote: Do you subscribe to the Dali Llama somehow? :) Ric Is that some kind of mystical Tibetan woolly creature? Maybe the origin of the yeti myth. Are you saying that a yeti is stealing bandwidth?? OMG. But, from what I could google, the bandwidth stealer is from Tibet?? I have to wonder just who would profit from that bit of re-direction. Like the OP, I am on HughesNet with savage restrictions on bandwidth usage and I would sure be concerned over what or who is stealing it. If anyone has a clue, I'd be interested in hearing it. I suppose the OP could run Iceweasel in secure mode (no addons) and slowly add the addons back, one at a time, to see if he can spot an offender ~IF~ there isn't something else installed like Seti that could easily account for the unattended usage. Beats me, Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5484be36.3010...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/06/2014 02:21 PM, Erwan David wrote: Le 06/12/2014 06:27, Ric Moore a écrit : On 12/05/2014 05:06 PM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 20:59:25 + Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: But remember our current slogan Linux is all about choice. One can choose to boot with or without fsck.mode=skip. What about the choice to stop fsck it if it has started at an inconvenient moment ? What is wrong with an fsck?? You've never had an fsck happen without your permission before at boot time?? Isn't it a good thing to have happen once in a blue moon?? Jimminy Crickets, be glad you aren't defragging like Win users have had to put up with for eons. Just think of it as a prophylactic measure and play safe. Be glad, instead, that someone is looking out for you. :) Ric You've never had to reboot a room of 100 servers with a specific odrder and see that the second one just began a 2h long fsck ? I run all virtualized proxmox server clusters. If one dumps out, to play with itself fsck'ing, the others pick up the slack if there are 3 or more nodes. :) Ric Nice, nice, very very nice, they all fit together in the same device. ~ Bokonon -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5483610f.40...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/06/2014 02:40 PM, Erwan David wrote: Le 06/12/2014 15:19, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Lu, 01 dec 14, 23:05:09, Patrick Bartek wrote: Well, we already know what a lot of Debian server admins think of systemd. Care to back this up with some data? Kind regards, Andrei They may think of systemd saying were is this M%µ£igation documentation which would allow me to keep my servers running when upgrade time arrives. That's a way of thinking of it. Two years from now, is another way of thinking about it. Until then, running Wheezy will be business as usual. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548361db.4070...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/06/2014 04:56 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Lu, 01 dec 14, 23:05:09, Patrick Bartek wrote: Well, we already know what a lot of Debian server admins think of systemd. Care to back this up with some data? Why? You've read this list regarding systemd and Debian same as I. Surely, you have formed some opinions. Or are no patterns in the discussions apparent to you? If I were to present them all, I'd get another nasty-gram from Mr. Armstrong. Let's just say that within the next year, we'll see who has the brain and leave it at that. I trust the Debian developers to make correct decisions. It's all I can do, as I'm not personally paying them to do what I want done. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5483852d.9020...@gmail.com
Re: no microphone in skype
On 12/06/2014 05:04 PM, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote: On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Ralph Katz ralph.k...@rcn.com wrote: While I have no specific suggestions for you, I can confirm that Skype works with my debian wheezy ver. 7.7 and xfce desktop on my laptop: ralph@spike2 ~$ dpkg -l skype \*pulseaudio\* | grep ^ii ii gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio:amd640.10.31-3+nmu1 amd64GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio ii pulseaudio2.0-6.1 amd64PulseAudio sound server ii pulseaudio-module-x11 2.0-6.1 amd64X11 module for PulseAudio sound server ii pulseaudio-utils 2.0-6.1 amd64Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server ii skype 4.3.0.37-1 i386 Wherever you are, wherever they are Thanks, Ralph. This is helpful. It gives me a data point to tracedown why skype is not working. Couple of questions: 1) What type of microphone are you using? Are you using a USB connection? In my case, I am using Logitech web camera that is connected via USB. The web camera provides both audio and video functionalities. 2) When you run pavucontrol - Input Devices , how many input devices do you see? What are they? 3) In the Configuration tab, how many devices are listed for you? What are they? 4) Is there a conflict between alsa and skype 4.3.0.37-1? Do you have any alsa packages installed on your machine? In skype options, sound devices, Allow skype to adjust mixer levels is checked. I have this checked. But that does not seem to be sufficient. Perhaps some ideas from here may help you: https://wiki.debian.org/skype I checked that wiki before posting my question. It did not have anything that could help my current situation. I'm suspecting alsa. Something must be muted. Sure your microphone isn't physically muted via the manual switch on a USB cable if you have one?? Heh, had that happen more than once and lost a patch of hair over it. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5483897e.7010...@gmail.com
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On 12/05/2014 04:44 AM, Curt wrote: On 2014-12-05, Buntunub mckis...@gmail.com wrote: And so it comes full circle. This is why there is a need for a Debian fork. /I/ don't have to do any of those things. You don't either. The good folks at Devuan will take care of all that for you. Fine then go fork yourselves with a Devuan. +1 :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54819b75.9010...@gmail.com
Re: Installing Linux on a Mac Mini without OSX
On 12/05/2014 10:55 AM, Brian Sammon wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:51:11 + Steve McIntyre st...@einval.com wrote: Hi Brian, You might be in luck - I'm looking into installer stuff right now and I've literally just got an Intel Mac Mini like yours last night to play with. To the best of my knowledge, the Mac Mini you've got *is* EFI capable, but doesn't work in quite the way we'd normally expect. To confirm that, could you try the wheezy installer CD again for me please? It hasn't come up yet in this thread, but I just noticed that the CD I've been using is labeled (by me) 7.0.0 i386. I should probably get a more recent version. A related question: i386 or amd64? Do you have a recommendation/preference? If you have 4 gigs of ram or better then amd64 would be the best from my experience, depending on CPU. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5482050f.2000...@gmail.com
Re: LVM RAID5 with missing disk?
On 12/05/2014 03:35 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote: Linux can use a special RAID 10 mode (mirror+stripe) with two or three disks. with 6 disks, RAID 6 will give you double the capacity of 4 disks or get you immunity to 3 disks failing. RAID 6 can survive 2 disk failures regarless of the number of disks in the array. Good to know, thanks! I'm starring this one! :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54821cd1.9050...@gmail.com
Re: Skipping fsck during boot with systemd?
On 12/05/2014 05:06 PM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 20:59:25 + Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: But remember our current slogan Linux is all about choice. One can choose to boot with or without fsck.mode=skip. What about the choice to stop fsck it if it has started at an inconvenient moment ? What is wrong with an fsck?? You've never had an fsck happen without your permission before at boot time?? Isn't it a good thing to have happen once in a blue moon?? Jimminy Crickets, be glad you aren't defragging like Win users have had to put up with for eons. Just think of it as a prophylactic measure and play safe. Be glad, instead, that someone is looking out for you. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/548293c7.3010...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/04/2014 12:33 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2014, Brad Rogers wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 09:24:03 -0800 Patrick Bartek nemomm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Patrick, use and no one else's, why distribute it at all? Simple: Ego. Perhaps. Or insecurity, and the need for validation. Or arrogance. Or all the above. Or perhaps to move Linux along where the likes of Google and Amazon has moved forwards to? That could be a reason, especially for servers. Unifying packaging could be another. If Linux is to have a paradigm shift, it could actually be what we need. I remain hopeful that the Next Big Thing happens within the Linux camp and not Apple's or Microsoft's. Could happen ya know. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5480d77d.3070...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/04/2014 03:16 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Thursday 04 December 2014 19:41:44 Brad Rogers wrote: On Thu, 4 Dec 2014 18:48:31 + Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: Hello Brian, It probably also makes my behaviour stupid. But stupidity is in short supply as you two have a monopoly on it and it doesn't look like you you are going to do any sharing. We were talking about a subset of developers, not *all* of them. Re-read the thread, and that should become clear. No, this is what had started that part of the thread: quote User's do contrain. They even dictate. Always have. Developers should, if they are samrt, be developing what customers want or need. Not the other way around. That's the formula for going out of business. Listening to your customers as well as your potential customers is just good business. /quote A generalised comment. Glittering Generality perhaps? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5480d806.1010...@gmail.com
Re: Installing Linux on a Mac Mini without OSX
On 12/04/2014 04:29 PM, Brian Sammon wrote: On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 14:46:09 -0500 Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: I was recently given a Mac Mini (Intel Mid 2007) that had been wiped. I tried to install Debian (Wheezy) on it, and the installer reported success, but when it came time to eject and reboot, Debian didn't boot from the hard drive. [...] Is there a way to install Debian/Linux on this machine that doesn't involve buying or borrowing (or borrowing) a copy of OSX? If you managed to boot a plain-normal Debian CDROM installer, then your machine's firmware has full BIOS support and you can boot a plain-normal Debian install on the harddisk as well, as if the machine were a normal PC. Hmm... I was able to boot a plain-normal (I assume it is) Debian CDROM installer, but now I can't boot the plain-normal (I assume) Debian install that the installer said it installed. The two questions I have: Can I still assume that I have the firmware version that I want? What do I do next to troubleshoot/fix this? Another random question: The installer gave me the choice of installing Grub on the partition or on the Master Boot Record. Which of these should I choose? If possible the normal route would be to the MBR. If you can boot from the CD install disk to a live session as root in a terminal window: grub-install /dev/sda update-grub ... I ~think~ will do the trick. I'd check this link out first though: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-24113.html One of the above methods should get grub set correctly. Good Luck! Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5480dc32.9030...@gmail.com
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On 12/03/2014 04:18 PM, Märk Owen wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 21:50:05 +0100 maderios mader...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/03/2014 08:37 PM, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: Jessie isn't Debian. Devuan IS (will be) what we know about Debian! Waiting to see Joel joining Devuan... lol I've no problem with systemd (Sid), it works fine). I dont understand why some people complain about systemd. Devuan is not Mint or Ubuntu, I think it has no future and everyone will forget that systemd is new... What about the people who will want to use another init system in Debian then? I mean, Linux is supposed to be about choice, right? Right, it IS about choice ...by those who do the choosing. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547fb386.6050...@gmail.com
Re: Debian fork: 'Devuan', Debian without Systemd
On 12/02/2014 04:47 AM, maderios wrote: Hi guys Not for me but interesting. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTg1MDQ # More about the vision This is just a start, as bold as it sounds to call it fork, at a process that will unfold in time and involve more people, first to import and change Debian packages and later on to maintain them under a separate course. To help with this adventure and its growth, we ask you all to get involved, but also to donate money so that we can cover the costs of setting the new infrastructure in place. https://devuan.org/donate.html So kiddies, be sure to send in your checks and money orders so you can all put your money where your mouth is. cackles Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e0f8f.3030...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/02/2014 02:34 AM, Stephan Seitz wrote: Debian has kindled a big fire with this systemd crap. It’s time to jump ship before you only have ashes. Shade and sweet water! Stephan yes! Yes! RUNAWAY!! slaps helmet :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547e153c.6080...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: I fear that once systemd is firmly entrenched in Debian as the default init more distros will follow suit, and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547caf6c.9010...@gmail.com
Re: Replacing systemd in Jessie
On 12/01/2014 04:18 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: On Mon, 01 Dec 2014, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/30/2014 11:27 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote: I fear that once systemd is firmly entrenched in Debian as the default init more distros will follow suit, and more and more developers will start writing apps with systemd, or parts of it, as a dependency for the features it offers. Every other distro of merit has long since made the switch. We're just late to the party. Are you just figuring it out now? Ric Depends on what you mean by distros of merit. Last time I checked -- two or three weeks ago -- only 6 distros besides Jessie were using systemd as the default: Fedora 15, RHEL 7, CentOS 7, Arch, OpenSUSE, and SUSE Server. Just read today OpenMandriva uses it. Probably Mandriva, too. Haven't checked. So, 9 total including Jessie. In any case, not a long list. I've also just read of a systemd-less fork of Jessie/Debian. Debuan, I think it's called. So, it's started. Thank $DEITY$. By the way, the list provided is about 90% of the total usage in servers and desktops. Include Ubuntu and it's flavors as well. :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/547cf925.90...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 11/24/2014 08:18 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: And while Wheezy will still be supported for a couple of years, it's not necessarily the answer. While many people don't want the latest and greatest, they also don't want the oldest and baddest. Sounds like your customers need to either pay for their software or donate large sums to Debian, to have it the way they want it. You have stable and testing and non-stable, take your pick. If you want fries with that, expect to pay for them. :/ Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54737583.8060...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: That is the huge majority of Debian users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as expected. Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have yet to have a single problem with it. Many will be able to fix those problems - but at a cost of time and manpower. Others will have neither the time nor the money to fix the problems, and still others will not have the technical expertise to do so. And yet the Linux community continues to lurch from pillar to post, as always, surviving by our collective wits. That is our strength. That part you just don't seem to appreciate, that nothing is ever static and that change that is inherent within our little meritocracy and is our greatness. Oh the other hand, we have a replay of the Hartlepool Monkey where pig ignorant fishermen and peasants hung a monkey thinking it was a French spy. The fishermen apparently questioned the monkey and held a beach-based trial. Unfamiliar with what a Frenchman looked like they came to the conclusion that this monkey was a French spy and should be sentenced to death. The unfortunate creature was to die by hanging, with the mast of a fishing boat (a coble) providing a convenient gallows. http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54728d21.4020...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 11/23/2014 11:43 AM, John Hasler wrote: Andrew McGlashan writes: You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list... What makes you think debian-user is my only source of information? ...and you are deluded if you think the problem only concerns a small limited number of people. What makes you think I believe that? I *still* do not want to see your emotional rants here (nor those of your opponents). Are you unaware of the fact that many people support Systemd solely because they have decided that all the opponents are raving lunatics? I am one of them. Purely out of spite for polluting the list. Imagine finding out that it works so well! That's a two-fer. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54728e5b.4080...@gmail.com
Re: Why focus on systemd?
On 11/23/2014 11:16 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 10:47:51PM +0100, Anders Wegge Keller wrote: On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 22:43:01 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/11/14 22:14, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:46:19 +1100 Scott Ferguson scott.ferguson.debian.u...@gmail.com wrote: It lost. Developers are not being forced to do what they don't want. The winner was developers will work it out themselves i.e. Debian won. Another reading being The Developpers won, Debian lost... Only reads that way if you have trouble reading - or simple refuse to acknowledge the view of Debian. The Constitution might need to be rewritten, to support your POW. While Debian always have been a meritocracy, the constitution have its load of weasel words, that implies the opposite. weasel words ?? That's French for words of a weasel. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54728fbc.9040...@gmail.com
Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 11/23/2014 09:20 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 11/23/2014 8:42 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 11/23/2014 12:17 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: That is the huge majority of Debian users. Some will get a rude surprise when they upgrade and things don't work as expected. Like what?? I first installed systemd back when it was announced. I have yet to have a single problem with it. What about all of those people with custom software running which relies on sysv init for starting? There are a lot of those systems out there - and every one of them will need work to conform to systemd. Many of those users will find it less time consuming and costly to change to another distro. It can be very expensive to bring someone up to speed on the systemd, then change and test all of their custom software (or pay a consultant to do it for you). Many will be able to fix those problems - but at a cost of time and manpower. Others will have neither the time nor the money to fix the problems, and still others will not have the technical expertise to do so. And yet the Linux community continues to lurch from pillar to post, as always, surviving by our collective wits. That is our strength. That part you just don't seem to appreciate, that nothing is ever static and that change that is inherent within our little meritocracy and is our greatness. Yes, and while the Linux community continues, Debian will lose a lot of dedicated users due to this decision. Possibly another fork, or possibly another distro. But Debian will lose users. How will Debian lose users? Debian is one of the LAST distros to adopt systemd. Wheezy is good for another couple of years and it's still running systemv. You're not suggesting that your user base will run Jessie anytime soon? Sure, people who only run software in .deb packages won't be hit as hard. But that is definitely not the entire Debian user base. Again, if you stick with wheezy, you have zero immediate concerns for your scripts and customers. -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5472b356.2020...@gmail.com
Re: Hostility on Debian forums
On 11/19/2014 06:23 AM, Reco wrote: Hi. On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:16:36AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Wednesday 19 November 2014 08:24:13 Ben Finney wrote: Hanover Shriver hanover.shri...@yandex.com writes: Only pro-Feminist programmers were allowed to contribute to free/opensource software. Fuck these cunts (or rather, please don't). […] Feminists should be killed. Regardless of the topic, gendered slurs and threats of violence are never acceptable in any Debian discussion forum. Please stop. Just delete Gregory Smith. It isn't worth engaging with him on any level. Seconded. They give you 'Mark as Spam' button for the reason, just use it on such e-mails. The FBI and Homeland Security take death threats very seriously nowadays, ~once you turn them in~. grins Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546ccbcc.6040...@gmail.com
Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
On 11/15/2014 08:35 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote: At the same time, most debian users likely do not really care about transition plan and systemd. It was widely published everywhere in March and yet, no one would have cared if this mattered ? I installed systemd to Jessie as soon as it was announced. No problems so far. I'm happy. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5468d844.5070...@gmail.com
Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On 11/15/2014 08:51 AM, Curt wrote: On 2014-11-15, Renaud OLGIATI ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org wrote: Why can't you wrap your lines while you're at it? Can't you set your mail client to wrap them for you ? Sure, and I can killfile the troll, correct the spelling and grammatical errors of the slothful and the ignorant, convert html to text, ignore spam and advertising, translate foreign languages, decipher cryptic codes, tolerate test messages and subscription or unsubscription requests, ignore the obscene, abide the rabid, suffer the rant, bear the ad hominem, and blow whatever's left out my ass. You'd be left w3ith a period and a semi-colon. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/546797b1.1070...@gmail.com
Re: Screen doesn't turn off
On 10/23/2014 05:45 PM, Catalin Soare wrote: Hi, I've got 2 computera, both running Debian Wheezy, all updates applied. One of them seems to ignore the Brightness and lock setting which should make the screen turn off after 30 minutes. It simply remains on all day or night. Anyone have a clue what additional setting I should check? Thank you for your time. Your screensaver should have settings to enable and set power saving modes. Maybe compare the settings of the one that works correctly with the one that doesn't? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5449d3fa.7090...@gmail.com
Re: Problem with systemd-sleep in Jessie
To the OP: Stack. THANK YOU for starting an intelligent systemd QA. One feature I read about is that systemd will shut down under various conditions that would also prevent exhausting the battery on a laptop. I don't suppose there is anyway to install fresh to get rid of old cruft?? I'm of no help as I am just starting to learn it, but I am learning from your experience, so that you again. bows deeply Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5449d358.6030...@gmail.com
systemd as fence
I am supposed to be using a fence to restart Debian based Proxmox cluster nodes when they fail and to trigger another mirrored node to become active to replace the failed one. Systemd claims it can restart/reboot if it detects failure. Anyone tried this yet? Could it be used as primary fence? Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5447ff5f.6040...@gmail.com
Re: If Not Systemd, then What?
On 10/22/2014 12:17 PM, Jimmy Johnson wrote: Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Montag, 20. Oktober 2014, 19:49:43 schrieb Jimmy Johnson: So, what would you all propose? For a server? Or for a user desktop? Or something that fulfills both scenarios? And why? Just wondering. See above and unless you are a tester or developer you may want to roll-back to Squeeze. Why Squeeze? Wheezy has sysvinit just fine… and so or so I expect Jessie to work with sysvinit as well. Hi Martin, Something I did not know at the time you asked the question: Why Squeeze?. Is that Wheezy was used by Debian to test systemd and even though I did not know this at that time I did not feel comfortable using Wheezy as my main desktop and now knowing that Wheezy is capable of installing systemd it will not be my main desktop until systemd is proven to be safe to use, I need to know more than words from a blog or a wiki to feel comfortable. I have been able to customize Squeeze to do all and behave as good as Wheeze but probably a little faster and once again I feel like a Happy Debian User. :) You have to make a concerted effort to enable systemd to Wheezy. I mean, you really have to try hard. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/544808ee.5020...@gmail.com
Re: Is there a way to send SystemD to Devil?
On 10/22/2014 09:45 AM, Marcelo wrote: Is there a way to use Debian without systemD? I use Debian since Potato and I never have a lot of problem than I still having in the past tow weeks! SystemD, Cups with a lot of Symlinks, Please, raise the potato version! Puleeeze, this issue has been posted and re-posted to death. The how-to was just posted AGAIN a couple of threads back. And AGAIN just a couple of threads before that one. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54480a1b.3000...@gmail.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/19/2014 04:32 PM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 20/10/14 04:03, Martin Read wrote: On 19/10/14 17:45, Rusi Mody wrote: As for 'wounded ego': Do you have a wounded ego if a dead branch falls and smashes the windshield of your car? Or a Tsunami knocks off your seafront house? If you are taking offense, who are you offended by? Debian is not a person (as far as I know!) Debian is a project created by a group of people. It is not a force of nature. And user/tester rights? Problematic to a degree all consumers are users and can/do provide feedback. I'm not unsympathetic, just unsure of where the responsibility lies, particularly with FOSS - and wary of unrealistic expectations. Since analogies are being deployed:- If I find a piece of machinery unsatisfactory I will let the manufacturer know - but getting a say in the direction of the company, even when overlooking the problems of satisfying a diversity of opinion, is not possible without at least the purchase of a share or a position in the company. I could organise a protest in the car park - but if my demands are unreasonable I may succeed in changing the company direction at the cost of driving the business - out of business. Just some thoughts on the difficulties that would have to be dealt with to achieve a successful outcome - for all involved. Scott, that can't be right. It makes too much sense. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54456f26.3060...@gmail.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/20/2014 01:27 AM, Rusi Mody wrote: On Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:50:02 PM UTC+5:30, Jimmy Johnson wrote: Slavko wrote: Ahoj, napísal: On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 07:02:12PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Friday 17 October 2014 18:30:31 Andre N Batista wrote: I cannot believe some people still thinks [snip] that we should simply stick with the TC's authority regardless what. Surely no-one has ever said that?? References if someone has? Sven Joachim. Because the people who do the work get to make the decisions, that's the way Debian works. All testing's users which are doing testing of the software and are reporting the bugs are working on, despite if they are in some team or not. But now it seems, that the regular users are on the last position of the interest and particular part of the Social contract are only words. This is the reason why i suspend all my contributions for now. I know, that the Debian was here without me and will be here without me too, but i see no enough interest to contribute now. First i was in doubts: is this only my wounded ego? But by last months doings i lost any doubts. ..the small man stands defiantly in front of the moving tank waving his flag of freedom..I don't blame you for moving out of the way, maybe some pieces will be left and you will still be here to help put them pieces back together again, or something new and better will come along, have faith my friend. It seems that https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/ is down right now. This case seems to be generating enough interest for it to register as a DOS (attack) on the servers!?! Heh! It's back up. The newer threads are titled re: re-proposal followed by Amendment (Re: Re-Proposal) now, while Peter Kremer has an exciting investment proposal for us. You must have tried to access during an update period (last was 4:00PM). The last entry as of now: https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00255.html references Lan's contention that IMO summary lines should certainly not be written by opponents of the proposed option. I think I will better spend my time watching mold grow on the fallen autumn leaves, while drinking an diet orange soda. ;) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/544572fe.7010...@gmail.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/20/2014 10:15 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Sb, 18 oct 14, 10:20:25, Joel Rees wrote: On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: We were objecting to the ad hominem unpleasantness and destruction of the list. Let me try to explain (yet again, sorry, but re-wording things sometimes does help) my point of view and why some of what I have said should not be considered ad hominem. (Some will say pessimistic, I won't argue with that, even though I think pessimism is warranted.) [big snip] Does this help explain why what appears to some as mere turf battles and childish name-calling, etc., is a bit more than playground antics? Not to me. All these discussions could very well happen on the -offtopic list. Currently one of Debian's main support channels is being DOSed with these debates. I wonder if they are pro or con the proposal or the re:proposal? :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5445735a.2040...@gmail.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/20/2014 02:35 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: If you mean you are actually DOSing Debian's support channels just to make you're point that's likely to get you banned instead, besides not achieving anything. ~OR!~ List archives get refreshed every 20 minutes. is a more likely reason for the list to go down just for a bit, especially with the higher than normal activity. I doubt any of the 4chan types to give a whit, one way or the other, as we're not exactly clubbing baby seals here. Maybe there is a GNU/Low Orbit Ion Cannon?? That would be more likely. chuckles :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5445756c.4020...@gmail.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/20/2014 04:54 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Lu, 20 oct 14, 16:49:48, Ric Moore wrote: On 10/20/2014 02:35 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: If you mean you are actually DOSing Debian's support channels just to make you're point that's likely to get you banned instead, besides not achieving anything. ~OR!~ List archives get refreshed every 20 minutes. is a more likely reason for the list to go down just for a bit, especially with the higher than normal activity. I doubt any of the 4chan types to give a whit, one way or the other, as we're not exactly clubbing baby seals here. Maybe there is a GNU/Low Orbit Ion Cannon?? That would be more likely. chuckles :) Ric I meant debian-user, as in: most traffic is now about systemd instead of supporting users with problems. Heh, that's another Low Orbit Ion Cannon. But, the OP presented a link to the Debian-Vote channel being down, if I recall correctly. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54457b93.9040...@gmail.com
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
On 10/16/2014 11:30 PM, Marty wrote: On 10/16/2014 08:41 PM, Ric Moore wrote: But, I consider it idiotic to bash Red Hat as ~anyone~ with the guts can do what Bob Young did. Just gather some talented people together around a kitchen table and create your own distro. That is perfectly legal and now they are worth billions, by starting exactly from that point. :) Ric I agree and appreciate your stories, which are an important part of the history of Linux. I'm trying to keep the issue hypothetical because a) I'm not a member b) it's a question and concern, not an accusation nor a conviction, and c) otherwise, it could come across as innuendo about companies or individuals in an environment that it already overheated. That's a bigger concern that the original question so it defeats my purpose. I'm also satisfied that I've given it (maybe more than) enough attention in this forum, and I understand now that this is the wrong place to pursue it anyway. So soon? It was getting interesting! -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54416641.5020...@gmail.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/17/2014 01:32 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: On 10/17/2014 1:29 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: I finished the thread right before I posted, and there were only 4 seconds. Guess I missed some sub threads or something... Oh well, glad to see it will get a vote... The fun part will be to see who actually steps up to the plate to do all of the extra work. Especially amongst all of those pledged seconds. I hope someone is keeping a list. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54417133.8060...@gmail.com
Re: update tool
On 10/17/2014 03:27 PM, Reco wrote: Hi. On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 20:20:29 +0200 Diogene Laerce me_buss...@yahoo.fr wrote: Hi, On this page : https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ch10.en.html One says : 10.1.2.1 Manually checking which security updates are available Debian does have a specific tool to check if a system needs to be updated but many users will just want to manually check if any security updates are available for their system. As the author tells about apt-get update upgrade in the following lines, I guess it is not the tool he is referring to. So does anyone know what tool he does refer to ? This package fits the description: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/update-manager-core Not finding that one in Jessie. Thanx, Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54417c17.8060...@gmail.com
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
On 10/15/2014 08:02 PM, Marty wrote: On 10/15/2014 04:19 PM, Ric Moore wrote: This is fortuitous! Not a bad gig at all. I'm sure some soreheads think that we debated WORLD DOMINATION during lunch, or how to screw over Debian, but sadly we mostly discussed what was the Right Thingtm Do you mean, job-related ethics? to do there just as we do on this list. I'm glad you replied because you're just the person to query. When you discussed job-related ethics at lunchtime, did the subject of conflict of interest ever come up, regarding voting in Debian? Debian who?? Ha! We had problems enough that Debian was about the furthest thing from our minds. When I was there most users were still using modems, and Win Modems came along to mess with people's minds. It works under Windows! That alone kept us busy. If it's impossible to imagine, then consider a purely hypothetical case. A developer is working on a package that could get widespread adoption within Debian, but some kind of technicality stands in the way, requiring a vote. As an employee, is there a conflict if he votes? I know I'm the joker on this list but now I'm serious. serious smiley would go here We had no votes, except on company picnics and who would go to the install fests and choosing fun stuff to do. Otherwise, it was indeed a for-profit and most decisions were top-down. Not down-up. After all, everyone at RedHat had been a user first, before landing a paying job. So, to everyone heaping scorn on RedHat, go here: http://jobs.redhat.com/ So you mean, the place for people with inferiority complexes? :) Heh, we had every stripe of human beings with assorted behaviors working there. Back in 1999 we had ties amongst the tie-dyes. If someone got jerked off, there was a room with pinball machines to reduce stress. Skateboards and roller blades. I was 50 and everyone around me was a 20 something. In short, working there was a ball. As soon as the suits went home at 5, networked Quake flared up on office desktops like a lit match and it was on. Matthew Szulik returned one day, after leaving and forgetting something on his desk, and the whole place sounded like a war zone, as he re-entered. People yelling over their cubes at who they just fragged with much glee. The look on his face was priceless. I've never seen a man's jaw drop that far! You do have to keep in mind, the devel-uber-geeks have TONS of intelligence, but are usually short on people skills. So, our job in Support was to run interference for the devels, translating what they replied into English ...geek-speak in, people-speak out, to the clients in response to their problems. But, we sure as hell had no vote as to how all things worked as a company. That is not to say they didn't care though. People there worked their butts off, because they cared. Getting paid to do what you care about was a huge plus. But, I consider it idiotic to bash Red Hat as ~anyone~ with the guts can do what Bob Young did. Just gather some talented people together around a kitchen table and create your own distro. That is perfectly legal and now they are worth billions, by starting exactly from that point. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/544065a0.7020...@gmail.com
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
On 10/15/2014 07:08 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 15.10.2014 12:09, Brian a écrit : On Wed 15 Oct 2014 at 10:41:12 +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 15.10.2014 09:11, Jonathan Dowland a écrit : On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:51:07AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: Check out what single company has 30% of the gatekeepers. Surprise, surprise. Damned for their success. We want Linux to be successful, but woe betide any company that actually gets us there... Maybe you want. But I think that most users just want it to work fine and efficiently, which does not necessarily imply being sold massively around the world. He's doing some of the work on Debian; others work with different distributions. They get what they want. Users get what they want. Everyone's a winner. :) Maybe. But, when someone tries to sell stuff a lot, to have a big market share, then that guy must take a large target, which leads to systems which might become less stable or less efficient. And if that guy want to keep his market, then he'll have to avoid people escaping his stuff, this is why vendor locks exists. Definitely, I hope that Debian won't take that road. It it does, then, I'll switch. I'm taking a look at netBSD, even if I guess that I'll have a hard time being successful in feeling as comfortable with it than with Debian. I don't know what you all do to get paid in order to pay bills and/or raise a family, but working for Red Hat is not a bad gig. Not a bad gig at all. I'm sure some soreheads think that we debated WORLD DOMINATION during lunch, or how to screw over Debian, but sadly we mostly discussed what was the Right Thingtm to do there just as we do on this list. After all, everyone at RedHat had been a user first, before landing a paying job. So, to everyone heaping scorn on RedHat, go here: http://jobs.redhat.com/ ...and here: http://jobs.redhat.com/life-at-red-hat/ If you really know your stuff and/or you fit a need, they might hire you. Secretly, I knew they paid me more than I was worth, which encouraged me to work my butt off in the support center. It was the saddest day of my life to have to quit for personal family concerns. Any of you should get paid to do what you love. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/543ed6e5.70...@gmail.com
Re: Conflict of interest in Debian
On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote: We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what I mean). Wonderful Linux company Corel changed their CEO, and promptly accepted money from Microsoft and dropped all their Windows software. If you knew Caldera, then you would know that it started with capitalization and focus by the retired CEO of Novell, Ray Noorda. What he did was to try to shoehorn Linux into the proprietary world, in order for Linux to become more widely acceptable as the base OS. I installed the base version around 1995 when there was a promo cost of slightly less than $200. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldera_OpenLinux It went into the deep end when Ray suffered from Alzheimer's and stepped down. The best thing I can say about Ray is this quote from wikipedia: Under Noorda's watch, Novell acquired several companies and products with the goal of countering Microsoft's rapid spread into new markets, including Digital Research, Unix System Laboratories, WordPerfect, and Borland's Quattro Pro. Microsoft CEO Bill Gates claimed that Noorda had a tremendous vendetta against Microsoft and that Noorda had supported the Federal Trade Commission's antitrust investigations of Microsoft in the early 1990s that led to a consent decree restricting its operating system licensing practice. Now that is my kinda guy, as he knew that Linux would grow to be more than a desktop hobby toy. And, he put his own money where his mouth was. He was not responsible for what happened after. I still have a copy of the Caldera install CD and it worked like a charm on an aging ThinkPad. But it was too pitiful to watch Netscape try to update itself. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/543edcea.9030...@gmail.com
Re: debian-advocacy?
On 10/15/2014 12:34 AM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: That's a problem in itself. There should be room for real discussion as is taking place here on the debian-user list, without fear of having posts filtered. I agree, but they (the moderators) have a vested interest when someone posts something considered illegal and have to ban such posts with notice to the OP. They HAVE to do that. Otherwise, they (Debian) get sued. Quite a few of the anti-systemd remarks have brushed up against those boundaries. Red Hat has lawyers on retainers, sitting in rocking chairs, being paid even while doing nothing. So, damn skippy moderators can not let things get out of hand. I wouldn't have that job, as it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. In that light, what would you have moderators do? What they could do is shut down public list support, so they are 100% safe legally, and let others provide that from their kitchen table server. There is that option. Ubuntu moderates the stuffings out of their support lists now. So, I hope everyone keeps this in mind before hitting send while passionately debating a topic. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. Linux user# 44256 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/543ee94f.6040...@gmail.com
