Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Copy/paste with system using vim-console *y/*p will work. On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Jamin W. Collins wrote : » Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:07:34 -0600 » From: Jamin W. Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] » To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] » Subject: Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what? » Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:07:31 -0600 (CST) » Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] » » On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 11:38:34PM +, Glyn Kennington wrote: » However, vim will grab all mouse actions, and do something completely » different if you shift-click (I think it performs some kind of search) » unless you disable the mouse completely with » :set mouse= » » Perhaps you are referring the vim gui? I have no problems using the » mouse to paste in vim. However, I don't use the vim gui. » » At least, that's how it behaves in my experience. Has anyone found a way to » make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? » » Haven't done anything special with it here. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 10:08:05AM +0100, Alex Polite wrote:
1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la
enlightenment.
I don't know anything that has *that*, save for E itself and probably one
of the ion-type window managers (which do it by definition). That would be
an interesting idea to wedge into something like Blackbox or Openbox, both
of which support a smart-placement algorithm that tries to place a window
in a non-overlapping spot when it first maps (although Openbox is far
better at it). What you describe would be extending that same algorithm to
a resize operation.
I'll point it out to the Openbox people.
2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs.
Blackbox loses here, as its key-binding utility (bbkeys) doesn't support
chaining at all yet. It will in its next version, according to the author.
Openbox's utility (epistrophy) does right now, like so:
# ~/.openbox/epistrc 103102
options {
ChainTimeout 2500;
stackedCycling true;
stackedCyclingRaise true;
}
# Windows
Mod4-x {
t toggleOmnipresent;
s toggleShade;
m toggleMaximizeFull;
v toggleMaximizeVertical;
h toggleMaximizeHorizontal;
d toggleDecorations;
i iconify;
x close;
n nextWindow;
p prevWindow;
}
Epistrophy is a NETWM keygrabber, so it would also work with the current
CVS Blackbox.
3) Must be fast.
Then you definately want something along the lines of Blackbox/Openbox.
Speed is a primary design goal of Blackbox, and the Openbox fork hasn't
given that up. :)
I've not seen anything much faster except for stuff like aewm, which fails
#1 and #2 bigtime.
4) Must be faster.
See #3. :)
Personally, I'd recommend Openbox. It has all of what you want, save parts
of #1. It takes Blackbox and extends it to add stuff like support for AA,
customizable buttons, and more orthagonal style element support.
--
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Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Jamin W. Collins wrote: However, vim will grab all mouse actions, and do something completely different if you shift-click (I think it performs some kind of search) unless you disable the mouse completely with :set mouse= Perhaps you are referring the vim gui? I have no problems using the mouse to paste in vim. However, I don't use the vim gui. Neither do I. I'm talking about vim on the console. I think that the vim gui behaves pretty much the same way as vim-on-xterm, so there's no problem there. Glyn -- When I talk, you will talk. When you talk, it will fall back into place. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Michael Naumann wrote: Has anyone found a way to make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? You can disable it via :map S-LeftMouse Nop Put this in your .vimrc and you're set. That does disable it, and prevent VIM from doing a search when I shift-click, but the click-event still doesn't reach gpm, so I still can't select or paste to/from other console programs. This just causes VIM to `do nothing' on receiving a mouse click, rather than `ignoring' it, if you understand the difference. Glyn -- When I talk, you will talk. When you talk, it will fall back into place. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Sat, Nov 16, 2002 at 01:42:12AM +0100, Michael Naumann wrote: 16.11.2002 00:12:53, Ricardo Diz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? In vi you can read the result of a command like this: :r !hdparm -tT /dev/hda5 Thanks a lot!! That was exacly what I was seeking... HTH, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. - Ricardo R. M. Diz Embedded Systems Lab Electric and Electronic Engineering @ Universidade de Coimbra Portugal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 11:24:52PM +, Hugh Saunders wrote: P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? could use the gpm buffer? [select the text then when in insert mode in vi, middle click to 'paste'] -this works in vim, havent tryed with pure vi Thanks, I already knew that one, but I'm using Eterm (with fluxbox) and I can't use the mouse in X to do that. hugh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. - Ricardo R. M. Diz Embedded Systems Lab Electric and Electronic Engineering @ Universidade de Coimbra Portugal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Sandip == Sandip P Deshmukh Sandip writes: Sandip my question - why doesnt debian turn dma on by default? Sandip dont we like fast machines? Because Debian runs on a lot of different machines. Some of those don't work well with DMA. As a result of this decision you can install Debian on these machines. Also, remember that Debian runs on many architectures other than i386, and on machines that often do not have IDE drives. It is hard to keep every one happy. It might even be a good idea to add some information about DMA to a manual, perhaps the installation manual, as a post install activity, since this question comes up so often. But I'm not sure too many people read that manual. Did you? ;-) Cheers! Shyamal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Shyamal == Shyamal Prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sandip == Sandip P Deshmukh Sandip writes: Sandip my question - why doesnt debian turn dma on by default? Sandip dont we like fast machines? Shyamal It might even be a good idea to add some information Shyamal about DMA to a manual, perhaps the installation manual, Shyamal as a post install activity, since this question comes up Shyamal so often. But I'm not sure too many people read that Shyamal manual. Did you? ;-) Forgive my crack there. I noticed right after hitting the send key that you had made the same suggestion, and unlike many other users indicated that you might even have read the manual ;-) Cheers! Shyamal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 11:01:16PM -0800, nate wrote: Sandip P Deshmukh said: my question - why doesnt debian turn dma on by default? dont we like fast machines? safety. Theres a lot of systems out there that do not support DMA or the driver is not mature enough. My mom's CTX laptop for example will lock up hard if DMA is turned on. I stopped using the IDE on VIA chipsets more then 2 years ago because of DMA problems(I now use Promise ATA/100 PCI cards instead). I think its a good idea to ship with it disabled though it would be nice if it was easier to turn on for the newbies. one small question - how do i know which kernel version am i using? i could not find anything that looks like kernel and has a version number of 2.4.19 in dselect the version you are running *now* can be determined from: uname -a (or more specifically uname -r) thanx a ton. does a discussion like this better suited in installation manuals of debian? not sure, I've never really used hdparm myself, I compile my own kernels and enable DMA in the kernels themselves(2.2.19) if I need them. Haven't played much with 2.4.x kernels yet. nate The more recent VIA chipsets appear to handle DMA without these problems, but I had a similar situation a few years back. At the time I thought it was the Western Digital drive, but that is now is working fine with DMA enabled on a newer motherboard with a VIA vt82c686b UDMA 100 controller. Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
I've been following this thread and, since I haven't 'played' with this before, I just ran a 'hdparm -tT /dev/hda5 hdparm' so I can compare my values with those shown here. My results are in the attach. I was very suprised to see that, even that for buffer-cache I got 130.61 MB/sec, I got 2.10 MB/sec for buffered disk!!! Any ideas? Regards P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? -- My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. - Ricardo R. M. Diz Embedded Systems Lab Electric and Electronic Engineering @ Universidade de Coimbra Portugal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- /dev/hda5: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.98 seconds =130.61 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 30.53 seconds = 2.10 MB/sec
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? could use the gpm buffer? [select the text then when in insert mode in vi, middle click to 'paste'] -this works in vim, havent tryed with pure vi hugh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Hugh Saunders wrote: P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? could use the gpm buffer? [select the text then when in insert mode in vi, middle click to 'paste'] -this works in vim, havent tryed with pure vi It'll work in pure vi, better even than with vim. gpm's default action is left to select, middle to copy (and right to extend?), so any editor that doesn't have its own use for the mouse will allow you to use these, and even if a program does want the mouse, you can usually still reach these actions by shift-clicking. However, vim will grab all mouse actions, and do something completely different if you shift-click (I think it performs some kind of search) unless you disable the mouse completely with :set mouse= At least, that's how it behaves in my experience. Has anyone found a way to make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? Glyn -- I can't control my fingers, I can't control my brain. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 11:38:34PM +, Glyn Kennington wrote: Hugh Saunders wrote: P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? could use the gpm buffer? [select the text then when in insert mode in vi, middle click to 'paste'] -this works in vim, havent tryed with pure vi It'll work in pure vi, better even than with vim. Better in vi Are you serious. VIM is always better :-) Add following to ~/.vimrc --- Local configuration set nocompatible set nopaste set pastetoggle=f11 And press F11 before pasting it. That's all. But for the original question, I would use script command from: bsdutils - Basic utilities from 4.4BSD-Lite. Or screen command with loging (^AH) gpm's default action is left to select, middle to copy (and right to extend?), so any editor that doesn't have its own use for the mouse will allow you to use these, and even if a program does want the mouse, you can usually still reach these actions by shift-clicking. However, vim will grab all mouse actions, and do something completely different if you shift-click (I think it performs some kind of search) unless you disable the mouse completely with :set mouse= Interesting, ... At least, that's how it behaves in my experience. Has anyone found a way to make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? I just had to be in insert mode... I will check it from Linux console... Maybe nopaste does the trick... -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32 .''`. Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu `. `' Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software --- Social Contract -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
16.11.2002 00:38:34, Glyn Kennington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone found a way to make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? You can disable it via :map S-LeftMouse Nop Put this in your .vimrc and you're set. HTH, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Osamu Aoki wrote: It'll work in pure vi, better even than with vim. Better in vi Are you serious. VIM is always better :-) Naturally. Though in this case, I have to say I prefer VIM's vi-emulation mode of ignoring the mouse. Add following to ~/.vimrc --- Local configuration set nocompatible set nopaste set pastetoggle=f11 And press F11 before pasting it. That's all. Yes, that paste-toggle thing is very convenient, especially when copying formatted text (such as code) from one terminal to another - thanks for pointing it out. But that wasn't the problem. I can't get VIM's clipboard to interact with gpm's, so I can't copy-and-paste to/from other programs running on the VT. ISTR that getting these to interoperate involves the clipboard variable, although the packaged VIM doesn't support this. At least, that's how it behaves in my experience. Has anyone found a way to make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? I just had to be in insert mode... I will check it from Linux console... Maybe nopaste does the trick... Doesn't seem to help. Glyn -- Drag queens have the navy tossing in their beds Mary ate her little lamb and punk rock isn't dead -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
16.11.2002 01:30:28, Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Better in vi Are you serious. VIM is always better :-) I agree, except where vi is aliased to vim :- - Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
16.11.2002 00:12:53, Ricardo Diz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S. Does anyone knows how do I put a result from command line into mutt/vi when sending mail? In vi you can read the result of a command like this: :r !hdparm -tT /dev/hda5 HTH, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 11:38:34PM +, Glyn Kennington wrote: However, vim will grab all mouse actions, and do something completely different if you shift-click (I think it performs some kind of search) unless you disable the mouse completely with :set mouse= Perhaps you are referring the vim gui? I have no problems using the mouse to paste in vim. However, I don't use the vim gui. At least, that's how it behaves in my experience. Has anyone found a way to make it ignore shifted mouse events but still process normal clicks? Haven't done anything special with it here. -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 08:24:26AM -0600, Shyamal Prasad wrote: Sandip == Sandip P Deshmukh Sandip writes: Sandip my question - why doesnt debian turn dma on by default? Sandip dont we like fast machines? Because Debian runs on a lot of different machines. Some of those don't work well with DMA. As a result of this decision you can install Debian on these machines. all right. this is windows - one size fits all - legacy that i carry. It might even be a good idea to add some information about DMA to a manual, perhaps the installation manual, as a post install activity, or as a post-install script applicable only if one is having necessary architecture? i am pressing this becuase the numbers with hdparm and without it are largely different! since this question comes up so often. But I'm not sure too many people read that manual. Did you? ;-) well, to be honest - NO! ;) Cheers! Shyamal thanx and cheers! sandip p deshmukh --*** msg13257/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 10:47:37AM +0530, Sandip P Deshmukh wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 06:46:46AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Chip Rose wrote: Another thing you might want to check is if your hard drive needs dma turned on. What speed does hdparm -t /dev/hda give you? /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.06 seconds = 3.54 MB/sec do i need to turn dma on? You be the judge: # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.75 seconds =170.67 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.78 seconds = 35.96 MB/sec -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:10:10AM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 10:47:37AM +0530, Sandip P Deshmukh wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 06:46:46AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Chip Rose wrote: Another thing you might want to check is if your hard drive needs dma turned on. What speed does hdparm -t /dev/hda give you? /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.06 seconds = 3.54 MB/sec do i need to turn dma on? You be the judge: # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.75 seconds =170.67 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.78 seconds = 35.96 MB/sec is this some magic? here are my numbers: /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.35 seconds = 94.81 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.47 seconds = 3.47 MB/sec how do i come closer to those numbers? thanx - this will be wonderful! sandip p deshmukh --*** No man is useless who has a friend, and if we are loved we are indispensable. -- Robert Louis Stevenson msg12929/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Sandip P Deshmukh wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 06:46:46AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Chip Rose wrote: Another thing you might want to check is if your hard drive needs dma turned on. What speed does hdparm -t /dev/hda give you? /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.06 seconds = 3.54 MB/sec do i need to turn dma on? Most of the debian kernels don't have dma turned on and will give very poor perfomance with data transfers, starting programs, etc. Windows turns dma on by defualt. and how do i turn it on? once turned on, will it always remain turned on or will i have to turn on? Yes, you probably need to turn it on. There are two basic ways to accomplish this. One is to use a kernel with dma and ultradma turned on. You can compile your own or upgrade to a debian kernel that does this (2.4.19, as far as I know) or you can use a script to turn it on at boot time with hdparm. To use the script method you would do something like this. Make a file in etc/init.d called hdparm. Put this in the file and make the file executable: #!/bin/sh # Script written by me to configure hard drives during boot. hdparm -X66 -d1 /dev/hda hdparm -X66 -d1 /dev/hdb hdparm -X34 -d1 /dev/hdd echo hdparm updated This script turns on ultra dma for both hard drives and dma for the cdrom. Of course your situation might be different. Then you need to make symbolic links to this file from the appropriate rc*.d files in /etc. For instance, cd into /etc/rc2.d and run this command: ln -s /etc/init.d/hdparm S22hdparm The S22 must be a different number than any of the other files in the rc*.d directory and this is the number I use, not the one you have to use. Do this in rc3, rc4 and rc5 and the next time you boot, your performance should be much improved. Please make sure to read the man pages for hdparm, as I am not an expert in hard drive optimization. The hdparm readme (/usr/share/doc/hdparm) also mentions using -c for best perfomance, but I haven't tried that. Dan Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bigfork, MT. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:03:16PM +0530, Sandip P Deshmukh wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:10:10AM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: You be the judge: # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.75 seconds =170.67 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.78 seconds = 35.96 MB/sec is this some magic? here are my numbers: Not particularly. That is from my main workstation now (K7 1Ghz) with the following configuration: # hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hda: multcount= 16 (on) I/O support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq= 1 (on) using_dma= 1 (on) keepsettings = 1 (on) nowerr = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead= 8 (on) geometry = 9729/255/63, sectors = 156301488, start = 0 busstate = 1 (on) A lot of it will depend on the drive and the controller. For instance on my older workstation (K7 650Mhz), I get the following: # hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.92 seconds =139.13 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 2.81 seconds = 22.78 MB/sec with an indentical configuration. However, turning off DMA on both of them gives: K7 1Ghz Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 27.80 seconds = 2.30 MB/sec K7 650Mhz Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 7.28 seconds = 8.79 MB/sec /dev/hda: Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 1.35 seconds = 94.81 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.47 seconds = 3.47 MB/sec how do i come closer to those numbers? I normally use hdparm -c1 -d1 -k1 /dev/hda, of course you'll want to change the /dev/hda to whatever drive you're working with. -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:04:43AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: ln -s /etc/init.d/hdparm S22hdparm The S22 must be a different number than any of the other files in the rc*.d directory No it doesn't. /etc/rc2.d$ ls K20exim S20cupsys S20nfs-kernel-server S20webmin S10sysklogd S20inetdS20ntop S20xfs S11hotplug S20logoutd S20oftpd S21nfs-common S11klogd S20lpd S20plex86 S89atd S14ppp S20lpd-ppd S20samba S89cron S20alsa S20makedev S20smartsuite S91apache S20asterisk S20mysqlS20ssh Note all the S20's? The number determines the startup order. If the numeric portion of the name is the same as another, then startup order is determined alphabetically. -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:04:43AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: ln -s /etc/init.d/hdparm S22hdparm The S22 must be a different number than any of the other files in the rc*.d directory No it doesn't. /etc/rc2.d$ ls K20exim S20cupsys S20nfs-kernel-server S20webmin S10sysklogd S20inetdS20ntop S20xfs S11hotplug S20logoutd S20oftpd S21nfs-common S11klogd S20lpd S20plex86 S89atd S14ppp S20lpd-ppd S20samba S89cron S20alsa S20makedev S20smartsuite S91apache S20asterisk S20mysqlS20ssh Note all the S20's? The number determines the startup order. If the numeric portion of the name is the same as another, then startup order is determined alphabetically. Thanks, that is good to know. Dan Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bigfork, MT. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:24:20 -0600 Jamin W. Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't dream of running any Desktop Environment on my K7-650 or my C1VN laptop. Some people dream, others do ;-). I'm running KDE 3.1rc2 on a P2-350 with 128 MB SDRAM. My packages are built from KDE cvs using gcc-3.2 (I don't know if that makes the difference.) True, the load time from GDM to a usable desktop is like booting Windows. But once in, I don't notice too much of a difference in responsiveness, and I'm using the supposedly SVG Crsytal theme (You've got to see it to believe it). P.S. I alternate between 7 different WM's and desktops. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
csj said: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:24:20 -0600 Jamin W. Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't dream of running any Desktop Environment on my K7-650 or my C1VN laptop. Some people dream, others do ;-). I'm running KDE 3.1rc2 on a P2-350 with 128 MB SDRAM. My packages are built from KDE cvs using gcc-3.2 (I don't know if that makes the difference.) True, the load time from GDM to a usable desktop is like booting Windows. But once in, I don't notice too much of a difference in responsiveness, and I'm using the supposedly SVG Crsytal theme (You've got to see it to believe it). I have a test box that is a K7-700 with 1GB of RAM and I run fluxbox. It works great! Cut out all of the non-needed window fluff :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 09:04:43AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Sandip P Deshmukh wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 06:46:46AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Chip Rose wrote: Another thing you might want to check is if your hard drive needs dma turned on. What speed does hdparm -t /dev/hda give you? /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.06 seconds = 3.54 MB/sec Most of the debian kernels don't have dma turned on and will give very poor perfomance with data transfers, starting programs, etc. Windows turns dma on by defualt. my question - why doesnt debian turn dma on by default? dont we like fast machines? Yes, you probably need to turn it on. There are two basic ways to accomplish this. One is to use a kernel with dma and ultradma turned on. You can compile your own or upgrade to a debian kernel that does this (2.4.19, as far as I know) or you can use a script to turn it on at boot time with hdparm. one small question - how do i know which kernel version am i using? i could not find anything that looks like kernel and has a version number of 2.4.19 in dselect Please make sure to read the man pages for hdparm, as I am not an expert in hard drive optimization. The hdparm readme (/usr/share/doc/hdparm) also mentions using -c for best perfomance, but I haven't tried that. i have done that and there is significant improvement in performance. here is my output of hdparm -t /dev/hda: /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.58 seconds = 17.88 MB/sec thanx a ton. does a discussion like this better suited in installation manuals of debian? thanx again. sandip p deshmukh --*** I would like to know What I was fencing in And what I was fencing out. -- Robert Frost msg13064/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Sandip P Deshmukh said: my question - why doesnt debian turn dma on by default? dont we like fast machines? safety. Theres a lot of systems out there that do not support DMA or the driver is not mature enough. My mom's CTX laptop for example will lock up hard if DMA is turned on. I stopped using the IDE on VIA chipsets more then 2 years ago because of DMA problems(I now use Promise ATA/100 PCI cards instead). I think its a good idea to ship with it disabled though it would be nice if it was easier to turn on for the newbies. one small question - how do i know which kernel version am i using? i could not find anything that looks like kernel and has a version number of 2.4.19 in dselect the version you are running *now* can be determined from: uname -a (or more specifically uname -r) thanx a ton. does a discussion like this better suited in installation manuals of debian? not sure, I've never really used hdparm myself, I compile my own kernels and enable DMA in the kernels themselves(2.2.19) if I need them. Haven't played much with 2.4.x kernels yet. nate -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 06:46:46AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote.. On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Chip Rose wrote: Another thing you might want to check is if your hard drive needs dma turned on. What speed does hdparm -t /dev/hda give you? Most of the debian kernels don't have dma turned on and will give very poor perfomance with data transfers, starting programs, etc. Windows turns dma on by defualt. In my experience, it isn't unusual to have the results go from 6 to 40 with dma turned on. And that will look like night and day. Take a look at this link for some guidance on how to tune your HD. http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue79/punk.html Kevin -- Kevin Coyner mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG key: 1024D/8CE11941 msg12734/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 01:54:57AM +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote: I recently installed blackbox once and couldn't seem to get much going until i did apt-get install menu. it provides the update-menus command and helped me in getting more stuff accessible via the popup menu. Ah, yes. menu is one of the niftiest things about Debian. I haven't however (in the short time that i played with blackbox) figured out how to change the desktop image for instance but what can you expect if you just installed it :-) Run bsetroot in your ~/.xsession. -rob msg12852/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 06:46:46AM -0700, Dan Owens wrote: On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Chip Rose wrote: Another thing you might want to check is if your hard drive needs dma turned on. What speed does hdparm -t /dev/hda give you? /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 18.06 seconds = 3.54 MB/sec do i need to turn dma on? Most of the debian kernels don't have dma turned on and will give very poor perfomance with data transfers, starting programs, etc. Windows turns dma on by defualt. and how do i turn it on? once turned on, will it always remain turned on or will i have to turn on? thanx sandip p deshmukh --*** Wow, I'm being shot at from both sides. That means I *must* be right. :-) -- Larry Wall in [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg12872/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
[OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
I visited my mother last week to help her setup her DSL connection. While doing so I realized that her Windows 2000 350 MHz box is a lot more responsive then my Debian/GNU/KDE 500 MHz box. So out goes KDE. I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms and kind of like them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle apps like gimp or xmms to well. Now I'm looking something in the middle ground. Here are the requirements: 1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la enlightenment. 2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs. 3) Must be fast. 4) Must be faster. alex -- Alex Polite http://plusseven.com/gpg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Alex Polite wrote: I visited my mother last week to help her setup her DSL connection. While doing so I realized that her Windows 2000 350 MHz box is a lot more responsive then my Debian/GNU/KDE 500 MHz box. So out goes KDE. I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms and kind of like them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle apps like gimp or xmms to well. Now I'm looking something in the middle ground. Here are the requirements: 1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la enlightenment. 2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs. 3) Must be fast. 4) Must be faster. alex -- Alex Polite http://plusseven.com/gpg pwm (http://www.students.tut.fi/~tuomov/pwm/) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
--- Alex Polite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I visited my mother last week to help her setup her
DSL
connection. While doing so I realized that her
Windows 2000 350 MHz
box is a lot more responsive then my Debian/GNU/KDE
500 MHz box.
So out goes KDE.
I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms
and kind of like
them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle
apps like gimp or xmms to
well. Now I'm looking something in the middle
ground.
Here are the requirements:
1) Must be able to maximize window to available
space a la
enlightenment.
2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la
emacs.
3) Must be fast.
4) Must be faster.
{{SNIP}}
My favorites are WindowMaker and XFce. Both are quick
and highly configurable.
http://www.windowmaker.org/
http://www.xfce.org/
=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.charleshbaker.com/~chb/
Hacking is a Good Thing!
See http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
__
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
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Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
-- Alex Polite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Tuesday, 12 November 2002, 10:08 AM +0100): I visited my mother last week to help her setup her DSL connection. While doing so I realized that her Windows 2000 350 MHz box is a lot more responsive then my Debian/GNU/KDE 500 MHz box. So out goes KDE. I discovered the same thing (both with KDE and GNOME) on my debian 366MHz box about a year and a half ago. When I started switching wms, I discovered where my performance had gone... KDE and GNOME are great, but they certainly slow a system down. I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms and kind of like them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle apps like gimp or xmms to well. Now I'm looking something in the middle ground. Here are the requirements: 1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la enlightenment. 2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs. 3) Must be fast. 4) Must be faster. I've been quite happy with blackbox+bbkeys for around a year now. And it's incredibly fast, even with all the apps I load on init (Phoenix, a rox window, idesk, gkrellm, bbpager, an aterm with screen...). -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tuesday 12 November 2002 04:08 am, Alex Polite wrote: I visited my mother last week to help her setup her DSL connection. While doing so I realized that her Windows 2000 350 MHz box is a lot more responsive then my Debian/GNU/KDE 500 MHz box. So out goes KDE. I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms and kind of like them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle apps like gimp or xmms to well. Now I'm looking something in the middle ground. === My wife's Windows98 computer is a LOT faster than my Debian3.0/KDE computer also. Her's is a 1.3ghz with 512mb RAM and my is only a 450mhz with 128mb RAM, but her computer *instantly* loads any program and runs many at the same time with no slowdown. I know that her hardware is more powerful, but it's like night and day. Mine thrashes around for 30 seconds trying to load Mozilla, and about 5+ seconds to load KMail, under KDE. Of course mine is much more stable (uptime now 22 days) as Win98 box can't go for more than 1-2 days without needing a reboot. I still love Linux because it's more stable, and Debian in particular, but is there any way to speed it up? Will using something other than KDE do it? - Chip === -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Am 12.11.2002 um 10:08 schrieb Alex Polite: I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms and kind of like them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle apps like gimp or xmms to well. Now I'm looking something in the middle ground. I have been happily using GTK-based XFCE for a some time. Although it is rather a desktop environment than a window manager it is fairly fast and light-weight. Regards, Dennis -- Dennis Stosberg eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] gpg key: http://stosberg.net/dennis.asc icq: 63537718 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 09:55:37AM -0500, Chip Rose wrote: My wife's Windows98 computer is a LOT faster than my Debian3.0/KDE computer also. Her's is a 1.3ghz with 512mb RAM and my is only a 450mhz with 128mb RAM, but her computer *instantly* loads any program and runs many at the same time with no slowdown. I know that her hardware is more powerful, but it's like night and day. Mine thrashes around for 30 seconds trying to load Mozilla, and about 5+ seconds to load KMail, under KDE. If thrashes is accurate, look at what's eating your memory. It makes a huge difference. KDE sounds like a pretty good candidate to look at first. My laptop is only slightly faster than your machine, at 600MHz, but it can start Mozilla in about three seconds out of cache, and somewhat longer if Mozilla hasn't been started recently. The fact that I use no desktop environment, a fairly light window manager (sawfish), and have 320Mb of RAM probably has something to do with that. I understand KDE, being heavily dependent on C++, will benefit from a technique called prelinking when that gets fully deployed. That depends on several rather complicated things that are in the pipeline for unstable. -- Colin Watson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
-- Chip Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Tuesday, 12 November 2002, 09:55 AM -0500): My wife's Windows98 computer is a LOT faster than my Debian3.0/KDE computer also. Her's is a 1.3ghz with 512mb RAM and my is only a 450mhz with 128mb RAM, but her computer *instantly* loads any program and runs many at the same time with no slowdown. I know that her hardware is more powerful, but it's like night and day. Mine thrashes around for 30 seconds trying to load Mozilla, and about 5+ seconds to load KMail, under KDE. Of course mine is much more stable (uptime now 22 days) as Win98 box can't go for more than 1-2 days without needing a reboot. I still love Linux because it's more stable, and Debian in particular, but is there any way to speed it up? Will using something other than KDE do it? This is not to bash the likes of KDE and GNOME, but they take a lot of overhead to run. Consider the way it all works: 1) Boot the kernel 2) Load any system daemons (networking, cron, etc.) 3) Login -- and load shell (bash, etc.) 4) start X-Windows 5) X-Windows loads window manager 6) Desktop loads on top of window manager By getting rid of the desktop, you get rid of one more level of applications taking residence in memory. 2 years ago, on my 333MHz laptop with 32MB memory, when I went from kde 1.1 using kwm to xfce, I saw my load time for X go from 2 minutes to around 20-30 seconds, and NN4 went from taking 2 minutes on first load to 15-20 seconds. On my desktop, a 366MHz machine with 256MB memory, I started with GNOME 1.4 on sawfish, where my load time was around 1 minute for X and 15 seconds for NN4; I experimented with a number of different window managers until I settled on blackbox, where my load time (which also includes loading a number of applications) is about 15-20 seconds, and NN4 (when I use it -- I typically use Phoenix or Galeon now) loads in about 8-10. So, yes, in my experience -- and I'm sure others will back me up -- getting rid of the desktop layer will speed up your experience in X-Windows. But that's not the *only* thing you can do. Other things will also help: don't load any system daemons you're not using (for instance, if you're already behind a firewall, you don't necessarily need to load up iptables or ipchains; if you don't use mysql or apache or samba or nfs... etc. don't have them installed or at least don't load them on boot); if you don't need the eye-candy (jpeg or png backdrops, icons, etc.) don't use them; use a terminal to do your file management instead of konqueror or nautilus (or investigate a lightweight file manager like rox or mc); ask yourself if you need to use a gui mail client, or if a text based one will work (I found mutt met my needs much better than evolution). The main thing to ask is: what do I want my computer to do for me? How can I make it do that as efficiently as possible? And then start experimenting. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
I'm in the process of compiling XFCE, in the hopes of replacing Gnome. Can you provide any pointers, pitfalls to avoid, etc. How much disk space does it require? What if any problems have you had with it? TIA, mw. -Original Message- From: Dennis Stosberg [mailto:dennis;stosberg.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what? Am 12.11.2002 um 10:08 schrieb Alex Polite: I tried out the minimalistic ratpoison an ion wms and kind of like them. At least they are fast. But they don't handle apps like gimp or xmms to well. Now I'm looking something in the middle ground. I have been happily using GTK-based XFCE for a some time. Although it is rather a desktop environment than a window manager it is fairly fast and light-weight. Regards, Dennis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Wathen, Metherion, 2002-Nov-12 10:27 -0500: I'm in the process of compiling XFCE, in the hopes of replacing Gnome. Can you provide any pointers, pitfalls to avoid, etc. How much disk space does it require? What if any problems have you had with it? TIA, mw. I don't understand why you are compiling it. Why won't the deb package work for you? The .deb file is 3.8MB, I don't know how much total space it adds but I'd guess at less than 15MB. I use the deb version and have had no problems. jc -- Jeff CoppockSystems Engineer Diggin' Debian Admin and User -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 08:01:01AM -0800, Jeff wrote: The .deb file is 3.8MB, I don't know how much total space it adds but I'd guess at less than 15MB. $ apt-cache show xfc ... Installed-Size: 9892 I'm guessing that value is kBytes (KiB, whatever :) -- Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:nnorman;incanus.net prepBut nI vrbLike adjHungarian! qWhat's artThe adjBig nProblem? -- alec flett @netscape -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 09:55:37AM -0500, Chip Rose wrote: My wife's Windows98 computer is a LOT faster than my Debian3.0/KDE computer also. Her's is a 1.3ghz with 512mb RAM and my is only a 450mhz with 128mb RAM, but her computer *instantly* loads any program and runs many at the same time with no slowdown. I know that her hardware is more powerful, but it's like night and day. As it should be. The difference in hardware specs alone is night and day. Your wife's processor is ~3 times faster (on hz) and has 4 times the memory. Both play a large role in the performance of the machine (especially when using a Desktop Environment). If you were to put another 128-256 Meg of RAM in your system you would notice a definite performance increase. I still love Linux because it's more stable, and Debian in particular, but is there any way to speed it up? Will using something other than KDE do it? Without a doubt. KDE, Gnome, and any other Desktop Environment will use a considerable amount of your system resources. I wouldn't dream of running any Desktop Environment on my K7-650 or my C1VN laptop. However, running Blackbox on both of these systems works wonders. Occasionally, I'll run KDE on my K7-1Ghz to help a friend with a question or two, but most of the time I run Blackbox, the responsiveness is very nice. Beyond just the move from a Desktop Environment to a Window Manager alone, you'll probably want to look at the applications you're using and ask yourself if there's another application that is lighter and still accomplishes what you're after. For example, there's little point in getting rid of Gnome only to use Evolution on a regular basis as Evolution loads quite a number of Gnome components. (I have nothing against Evolution specifically, just using it to illustrate a point). -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Here are the requirements: 1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la enlightenment. 2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs. 3) Must be fast. 4) Must be faster. Thanks everyone for all the input. I've installed blackbox. I doesn't meet requirements 1 and 2, contrary to what someone in the thread said, but it does meet 3. I'll stay with it for a couple of weeks. alex -- Alex Polite http://plusseven.com/gpg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
FVWM definitely meets 1 2, and can be configured in a minimal fashion to meet 3 and 4 (at least I think so)... -- --- Paul D. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] HASMAT--HA Software Mthds Tools Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional. --Mad Scientist --- These are my opinions---Nortel Networks takes no responsibility for them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
-- Alex Polite [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (on Tuesday, 12 November 2002, 10:26 PM +0100): Here are the requirements: 1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la enlightenment. 2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs. 3) Must be fast. 4) Must be faster. Thanks everyone for all the input. I've installed blackbox. I doesn't meet requirements 1 and 2, contrary to what someone in the thread said, but it does meet 3. I'll stay with it for a couple of weeks. As to (1), right click on both your toolbar and slit and make sure the item Always on Top isn't checked. In addition, if you want to be absolutely certain that a window maximizes to the full screen, autohide each of them. As to (2), bbkeys won't do sequences of keys for keybindings. If you're having trouble determining the syntax for the rc file, check out bbconf -- it has a QT gui for setting these and other blackbox properties. There's also another project, epist, which is part of the openbox wm that might -- not absolutely sure. You might want to check it out. -- Matthew Weier O'Phinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 10:26:25PM +0100, Alex Polite wrote: I've installed blackbox. I doesn't meet requirements 1 and 2, contrary The CVS version does 1 and I believe 2 if you use epist as your key manager. So, support for what you're after is coming. -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 10:26:25PM +0100, Alex Polite wrote: Here are the requirements: 1) Must be able to maximize window to available space a la enlightenment. 2) Must support multiple sequence key bindings a la emacs. 3) Must be fast. 4) Must be faster. Thanks everyone for all the input. I've installed blackbox. I doesn't meet requirements 1 and 2, contrary to what someone in the thread said, but it does meet 3. I'll stay with it for a couple of weeks. 1) Try Full Maximisation or Maximise over slit in the config menu. Can you describe a situation that would explain this better, if I've misunderstood? Try fluxbox, for a different take on the blackbox idea. I prefer it solely as it has a a better name. -- jc -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
Jonathan Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Try fluxbox, for a different take on the blackbox idea. I prefer it solely as it has a a better name. The version in Sid is a bit buggy when it comes to resizing Emacs. Don't know why, but blackbox works fine. -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - In a variety of flavors! Judgment Day -- Van Halen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Moving away from KDE to what?
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 05:45:23PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: Jonathan Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Try fluxbox, for a different take on the blackbox idea. I prefer it solely as it has a a better name. The version in Sid is a bit buggy when it comes to resizing Emacs. Don't know why, but blackbox works fine. Blackbox everytime. Blackbox. Blackbox. Harvey I recently installed blackbox once and couldn't seem to get much going until i did apt-get install menu. it provides the update-menus command and helped me in getting more stuff accessible via the popup menu. I haven't however (in the short time that i played with blackbox) figured out how to change the desktop image for instance but what can you expect if you just installed it :-) I like it because it's fast and not cluttered. I might install it again on my server (i know, i know) so i can test how ssh works with x forwarding. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
