Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-15 Thread Camaleón
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:07:16 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> 15.04.2012 00:53, Camaleón kirjoitti: <...>
>> 
>> P.S. I find quite hard to understand why there are users who despite
>> consider my postings to be sort a "newbie killers" and "soft-mind
>> perverters" are still replying to them. The only conclusion I can reach
>> for this behaviour is that: 1/ my posts contain some kind of magnetic
>> material that inevitably attracts them (though I haven't have found any
>> trace of ferrite in the headers) or 2/ is just they want to make noise.
>> I will have to deeply think in which of the both options hold the true.
>> Mmmm...
>> 
>> 
>> 
> In my opinion it's good that you care answer to posts and try to help. I
> am not seeing any reasons why your posts would be "newbie killers".

Thanks.

> Everyone can make mistakes sometimes.

Sure, and me the first (though I'm still waiting to know what were the 
offending words...)

> PS. I didn't see anything weird with your headers either ;).

O:-)

Mika, I see that you have migrated from inline signatures to appended 
ones and I hope you've done so motivated by strong reasons and not just 
by others complaints. Anyway, now is very easy to reply to your posts, no 
more extra stuff deletion needed anymore ;-)

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-15 Thread Mika Suomalainen
15.04.2012 00:53, Camaleón kirjoitti:
<...>
> 
> P.S. I find quite hard to understand why there are users who despite 
> consider my postings to be sort a "newbie killers" and "soft-mind 
> perverters" are still replying to them. The only conclusion I can reach 
> for this behaviour is that: 1/ my posts contain some kind of magnetic 
> material that inevitably attracts them (though I haven't have found any 
> trace of ferrite in the headers) or 2/ is just they want to make noise. I 
> will have to deeply think in which of the both options hold the true. 
> Mmmm...
> 
> Greetings,
> 

In my opinion it's good that you care answer to posts and try to help. I
am not seeing any reasons why your posts would be "newbie killers".
Everyone can make mistakes sometimes.

PS. I didn't see anything weird with your headers either ;).

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-14 Thread Camaleón
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 02:59:02 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 05:03:41PM +, Camaleón wrote:
>> «In the interleaved reply style (also called "inline reply", "point-by-
>> point rebuttal", or, sometimes, "bottom posting")...»
>^^^
>> «In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or
>> partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is
>> sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are
>> the same when only one point is being replied to.»
>^^^
>> There's little room for interpretations in the above paragraphs but as
>> you seem to disagree with that, I'd like to know what's what you
>> read/get from there, just out of curiosity.
> 
> i.e:
> 
> "Interleaved style is sometimes called "bottom posting" when only one
> point is being replied to."

Sigh.

P.S. I find quite hard to understand why there are users who despite 
consider my postings to be sort a "newbie killers" and "soft-mind 
perverters" are still replying to them. The only conclusion I can reach 
for this behaviour is that: 1/ my posts contain some kind of magnetic 
material that inevitably attracts them (though I haven't have found any 
trace of ferrite in the headers) or 2/ is just they want to make noise. I 
will have to deeply think in which of the both options hold the true. 
Mmmm...

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 05:03:41PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> «In the interleaved reply style (also called "inline reply", "point-by-
> point rebuttal", or, sometimes, "bottom posting")...»
   ^^^ 
> «In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or 
> partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is 
> sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are 
> the same when only one point is being replied to.»
   ^^^
> There's little room for interpretations in the above paragraphs but as 
> you seem to disagree with that, I'd like to know what's what you read/get 
> from there, just out of curiosity.

i.e:

"Interleaved style is sometimes called "bottom posting" when only one
point is being replied to."


-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-14 Thread Chris Bannister
On Mon, Apr 09, 2012 at 01:38:59PM -0700, Al Eridani wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Chris Bannister
>  wrote:
> 
> > But you said above, and I quote:
> >
> > 'A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"
> >
> > and now you are saying in response to
> >
> > "So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops
> > sorry, at the very end? End posting?"
> >
> > That's also "bottom posting".
> >
> > Huh??
> 
> You need to brush up on "necessary" and "sufficient" conditions...

Not sure what you mean.

Does "all the stuff goes to the bottom" and "plonk everything at the
bottom" say the same thing to you?

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-12 Thread Camaleón
On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 00:18:28 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Mi, 11 apr 12, 17:03:41, Camaleón wrote:
>> 
>> «In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or
>> partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is
>> sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are
>> the same when only one point is being replied to.»
>   ^^
>  
>> There's little room for interpretations in the above paragraphs but as
>> you seem to disagree with that, I'd like to know what's what you
>> read/get from there, just out of curiosity.
> 
> ... which implies there are cases when they are not "the same" :)

IIRC, I said that both styles (and citing me) "share 99% of their 
features", "are the same in esence" and "both are almost the same" but I 
Did not recall myself saying they are "equal" or "1:1" :-)

You (not "you" but people) can indeed make more divisions for the posting 
styles, e.g., I've received business related e-mails where the full 
replied e-mail was attached to the message and AFAIK, this is not covered 
by none of the main posting styles listed in the Wikipedia article. 
Still, I would consider such communication uses a top-posting-alike style 
because in the end you are prioritizing your own reply instead making the 
content legible for anyone else.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-11 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Mi, 11 apr 12, 17:03:41, Camaleón wrote:
> 
> «In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or 
> partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is 
> sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are 
> the same when only one point is being replied to.»
  ^^
 
> There's little room for interpretations in the above paragraphs but as 
> you seem to disagree with that, I'd like to know what's what you read/get 
> from there, just out of curiosity.

... which implies there are cases when they are not "the same" :)

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-11 Thread Camaleón
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:51:48 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Mi, 11 apr 12, 15:44:29, Camaleón wrote:
>> 
>> > Just because somebody chooses to stay out of this thread does not
>> > mean one automatically agrees with you ;)
>> 
>> It's not *me* who says so, it's written in the Wikipedia article, you
>> will have to ask the author why he/she thinks so :-)
> 
> That's your interpretation, not mine :)

«In the interleaved reply style (also called "inline reply", "point-by-
point rebuttal", or, sometimes, "bottom posting")...»

«In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or 
partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is 
sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are 
the same when only one point is being replied to.»

There's little room for interpretations in the above paragraphs but as 
you seem to disagree with that, I'd like to know what's what you read/get 
from there, just out of curiosity.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-11 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Mi, 11 apr 12, 15:44:29, Camaleón wrote:
> 
> > Just because somebody chooses to stay out of this thread does not mean
> > one automatically agrees with you ;)
> 
> It's not *me* who says so, it's written in the Wikipedia article, you 
> will have to ask the author why he/she thinks so :-)

That's your interpretation, not mine :)

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-11 Thread Camaleón
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:26:12 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Lu, 09 apr 12, 13:34:59, Camaleón wrote:
>> 
>> To me (and everybody else), both are almost the same.
> 
> Could you please explain the "everybody else" part?

As I guess you've followed the whole thread, what's exactly what you 
don't get?

> Just because somebody chooses to stay out of this thread does not mean
> one automatically agrees with you ;)

It's not *me* who says so, it's written in the Wikipedia article, you 
will have to ask the author why he/she thinks so :-)

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-11 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Lu, 09 apr 12, 13:34:59, Camaleón wrote:
> 
> To me (and everybody else), both are almost the same.

Could you please explain the "everybody else" part?

Just because somebody chooses to stay out of this thread does not mean 
one automatically agrees with you ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-09 Thread Al Eridani
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Chris Bannister
 wrote:

> But you said above, and I quote:
>
> 'A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"
>
> and now you are saying in response to
>
> "So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops
> sorry, at the very end? End posting?"
>
> That's also "bottom posting".
>
> Huh??

You need to brush up on "necessary" and "sufficient" conditions...


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-09 Thread Camaleón
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 06:48:23 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 02:18:48PM +, Camaleón wrote:

(...)

>> > So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops
>> > sorry, at the very end? End posting?
>> 
>> That's also "bottom posting". No need to reinvent the wheel all the
>> time.
> 
> But you said above, and I quote:

(...)

Tip: when someone knows how to use quoting, there's no need to refer to 
his/her writings as "and you said this or that...".

Now trimming a bunch of meaningless stuff ("You said... I said...").

>> That's *your* own interpretation of a well-defined well-known concept
>> and
> 
> Mine? If you look again at the Wikipedia article, it clearly says right
> at the top:

(...)

I've already read the Wikipedia article, thanks.

> THREE different posting styles 1) interleaved 2) bottom 3) top
> 
> just like I said!

Maybe you gave it a glance to the article but you've failed to interpret 
it in whole. Once you read and understand the references article, you'll 
find out that interleave and bottom posting styles *are the same* in 
esence.

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Bottom-posting
>  
>> In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or
>> partial copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is
>> sometimes used for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are
>> the same when only one point is being replied to.
>> ***
> 
> That's all you could find?
> 
> Look up 'appended' in your English dictionary.
> 
> Obviously, if only one point is being replied to, then arguing over
> whether it is inline or bottom style is ridiculous.

Well, to be sincere, what I find ridiculous is having to discuss 
something that is widely known. If you do see a difference between the 
two styles, go ahead and live with that. To me (and everybody else), both 
are almost the same.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-08 Thread Chris Bannister
On Sun, Apr 08, 2012 at 02:18:48PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:47:51 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 02:58:24PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> 
> >> >> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the
> >> >> bottom"
> >> > 
> >> > Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.
> >> 
> >> No sir, is just the name what is misleading. "Bottom posting" also
> >> applies for an inline style. Regardless its name, the main idea remains
> >> the same: the reply goes below of the text you are responding.
> > 
> > So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops sorry,
> > at the very end? End posting?
> 
> That's also "bottom posting". No need to reinvent the wheel all the time.

But you said above, and I quote:

'A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"

and now you are saying in response to

"So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops
sorry, at the very end? End posting?"

That's also "bottom posting".

Huh??

But wait, there is more:

in response to:

"There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is the
tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style you and
many others use."

You say:

"That's also bottom posting" ;-)



> That's *your* own interpretation of a well-defined well-known concept and 

Mine? If you look again at the Wikipedia article, it clearly says right
at the top:

***
The main options are interleaved posting (also called inline replying,
in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of
the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the
quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original
message). 
***

THREE different posting styles 1) interleaved 2) bottom 3) top

just like I said!

> everybody else understand for it, which BTW, has been referenced in this 
  ^
Apparently not.

> same thread (by me), in a form of link to Wikipedia article about this 
> issue:

If you reference something, at least make sure it helps *your* point and
not hinder it.

> ***
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Bottom-posting
 
> In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or partial 
> copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is sometimes used 
> for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are the same when 
> only one point is being replied to.
> ***

That's all you could find?

Look up 'appended' in your English dictionary.

Obviously, if only one point is being replied to, then arguing over
whether it is inline or bottom style is ridiculous.

> > Therefore, it makes sense to have *THREE* different definitions.
> > correct?
> 
> (...)
> 
> Not at all when two of them (inline and bottom posting) share 99% of 
> their features. Feel free to edit the Wikipedia article to match your own 
> opinion ;-)

I don't need to edit it. It does match my opinion. You should read it 
again and have a good English dictionary on hand while doing so.


Note: Whether you trim or not does not alter the type of posting.

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-08 Thread Indulekha
In linux.debian.user, Chris Bannister wrote:
>
> No, you are confused. There are three entirely different distinct styles:
> 1) Top posting
> 2) Bottom posting
> 3) Interleaved, inline, conversation. style.
>
> Therefore, it makes sense to have *THREE* different definitions.
> correct?
>

There are only two styles, really: rational and lazy.
Call them what you wish, subdivide them if you like, 
but in reality there is only *one* correct way to post.
The term "interleaved" makes sense, but is redundant as 
it's been called "bottom posting" since the dawn of email 
and usenet -- and it's generally understood by the everyone 
who has a clue that doing it properly usually results in an 
interleaved conversation. It isn't exactly rocket science! 
:)

-- 
❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤   
 Indulekha 


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-08 Thread Camaleón
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:47:51 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 02:58:24PM +, Camaleón wrote:

>> >> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the
>> >> bottom"
>> > 
>> > Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.
>> 
>> No sir, is just the name what is misleading. "Bottom posting" also
>> applies for an inline style. Regardless its name, the main idea remains
>> the same: the reply goes below of the text you are responding.
> 
> So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops sorry,
> at the very end? End posting?

That's also "bottom posting". No need to reinvent the wheel all the time.

>> > There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is
>> > the tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style
>> > you and many others use.
>> 
>> That's also bottom posting ;-)
> 
> No, you are confused. 

(...)

That's *your* own interpretation of a well-defined well-known concept and 
of course, *you* can call them as you wish. I prefer to stick to what 
everybody else understand for it, which BTW, has been referenced in this 
same thread (by me), in a form of link to Wikipedia article about this 
issue:

***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Bottom-posting

In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or partial 
copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is sometimes used 
for inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are the same when 
only one point is being replied to.
***

> Therefore, it makes sense to have *THREE* different definitions.
> correct?

(...)

Not at all when two of them (inline and bottom posting) share 99% of 
their features. Feel free to edit the Wikipedia article to match your own 
opinion ;-)

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-07 Thread Chris Bannister
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 02:58:24PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 06:11:19 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 04:03:05PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> >> Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups
> >> and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.
> >> 
> >> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"
> > 
> > Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.
> 
> No sir, is just the name what is misleading. "Bottom posting" also 
> applies for an inline style. Regardless its name, the main idea remains 
> the same: the reply goes below of the text you are responding.

So what's it called when you plonk everything at the bottom, oops sorry,
at the very end? End posting?

> > There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is the
> > tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style you and
> > many others use.
> 
> That's also bottom posting ;-)

No, you are confused. There are three entirely different distinct styles:
1) Top posting
2) Bottom posting
3) Interleaved, inline, conversation. style.

Therefore, it makes sense to have *THREE* different definitions.
correct?

Since top posting means posting *everything* at the top, then the
opposite is? ... Correct! posting *everything* at the bottom!
That covers 1) and 2) And everything else seems to fit in with 3).

Unfortunately, if you have loose definitions which can be used depending
on the whim of the moment you have, ... well, ... imagine if everyone was
called Bruce¹ (visual accompanyment²).

¹http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode22.htm#2
²http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA
³http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1MgCV6uGuc

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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-07 Thread Camaleón
On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 06:11:19 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 04:03:05PM +, Camaleón wrote:
>> Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups
>> and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.
>> 
>> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom"
> 
> Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.

No sir, is just the name what is misleading. "Bottom posting" also 
applies for an inline style. Regardless its name, the main idea remains 
the same: the reply goes below of the text you are responding.
 
>> but put in chunks between context, replying inline, as Wikipedia
>> article says ("interleaved style").
> 
> There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is the
> tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style you and
> many others use.

(...)

That's also bottom posting ;-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-04-06 Thread Chris Bannister
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 04:03:05PM +, Camaleón wrote:
> Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups 
> and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.
> 
> A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom" 

Yes it does! That is what bottom posting is.

> but put in chunks between context, replying inline, as Wikipedia article 
> says ("interleaved style").

There is also "conversation style" or "interleaved style" which is the
tried and proven preferred way for mailing lists; i.e the style you and 
many others use.

If I was using "bottom posting" I'd have just dumped everything at the
bottom regardless.

-- 
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   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-03-30 Thread Camaleón
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:34:54 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Camaleón  wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
> 
> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style, inserting
> new text within the quoted material for context.  Top posting almost
> never meets this, bottom posting only works when the post you're
> responding to is very short.  Like this.

Bottom posting has been since long the preferred method for newsgroups 
and then mailing lists but not for forums nor business communications.

A bottom posting style does not mean "all the stuff goes to the bottom" 
but put in chunks between context, replying inline, as Wikipedia article 
says ("interleaved style").

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-03-30 Thread Lisi
On Friday 30 March 2012 16:34:54 Paul Johnson wrote:
> Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
> inserting new text within the quoted material for context.  Top
> posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when the
> post you're responding to is very short.

So use interleaving.  Which is much the best.  I find top-posting impossible 
to follow.  And trim!!!

Lisi


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Re: [OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-03-30 Thread Paul Johnson
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Camaleón  wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
>
>> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

Though it's generally ideal to go with a conversational style,
inserting new text within the quoted material for context.  Top
posting almost never meets this, bottom posting only works when the
post you're responding to is very short.  Like this.


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[OT] Posting styles (was: printer Kyocera FSC-5100DN)

2012-03-30 Thread Camaleón
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:25:42 +0300, Mika Suomalainen wrote:

> Could someone explain me, what are "top- and bottom posting" styles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style

Greetings,

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Camaleón


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