Re: Actually [Re: Some spam]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:42:58PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: [...] > I believe the design of that button is flawed. > It *ONLY* asks if respondent considers that message to be "SPAM". This is the button's task. It's stating: "hey, listmasters: look over here". So be considerate, you're generating work... for people making the world a better place for us all. > It DOES *NOT*: > 1. ask for confirmation. > 2. ask WHY message should be considered spam. > Also, it does not apparently record *WHO* flagged a message as "spam". > I verified that point by experiment. > > There ONE person on this list who routinely disagrees with me. > I chose one of his most spurious posts. > Using https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/... I viewed one of his > sillier replies. > I chose to report it as spam. That would be a misuse of said button. > That was apparent end of the evaluation process. > I'm *NOT* suggesting that the poser should be banned. > He occasionally posts useful comments. There's a lot of fringe-offtopic stuff in this list. But since that is a very subjective judgement, it seems better that it's tolerated. Spam is something coming from nowhere, having nothing to do with this list. > Who/What is appropriate authority to address suggestions for > improving the situation. The listmasters. But -- before piling work upon them, please try to think about it in a constructive way. This list is very tolerant by design. It's upon all of us to try to deal with it in a helpful way. regards - -- tomás -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlj6aN0ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kbjigCfeTStapfIVV+AvBvaNy9uaAh4 f5gAnjTJscLSoFTbIoJL2WLdNDbFbKqt =D45j -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Actually [Re: Some spam]
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017, Richard Owlett wrote: > I believe the design of that button is flawed. > It *ONLY* asks if respondent considers that message to be "SPAM". All reported posts are human-reviewed before any action is taken. That button just flags the post as something that needs human review. > I chose to report it as spam. > > That was apparent end of the evaluation process. Not so. If it went away, one or more of the listmasters agreed that it was spam as far as that specific ML charter was concerned. > Who/What is appropriate authority to address suggestions for improving the > situation. It is right there on the footer of every lists.debian.org page. -- Henrique Holschuh
Re: Actually [Re: Some spam]
On Fri 21 Apr 2017 at 12:42:58 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 04/21/2017 10:51 AM, Don Armstrong wrote: > >On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, fc wrote: > >>Actually -- does anyone monitor this list for this type of stuff? > > > >Yes, listmas...@lists.debian.org does. > > > >>I see these types of things come through periodically -- and 1 delete > >>on the front end could prevent a lot of woe. > > > >We discard large swaths of spam. Some inevitably makes it through. > >People replying to known spam doesn't help, though. > > > >See https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam for what > >you can do to help > > There lies a significant problem. Significance is in the eye of the beholder. > It states *IN PART* "There is a "report as spam" button in on the list > archive page of each message." > > I believe the design of that button is flawed. It's not a Golden Rectangle? > It *ONLY* asks if respondent considers that message to be "SPAM". > It DOES *NOT*: > 1. ask for confirmation. You want a button to confirm what you have just reported as spam? > 2. ask WHY message should be considered spam. Everyone knows that spam is generally unsolicited, bulk email. > Also, it does not apparently record *WHO* flagged a message as "spam". > I verified that point by experiment. Privacy? A pointless waste of time? > There ONE person on this list who routinely disagrees with me. Only one? > I chose one of his most spurious posts. > Using https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/... I viewed one of his sillier > replies. > I chose to report it as spam. You consider spam to be postings which have content which disagree with something you have said? > That was apparent end of the evaluation process. > I'm *NOT* suggesting that the poser should be banned. Phew! They can sleep soundly tonight. > He occasionally posts useful comments. > > Who/What is appropriate authority to address suggestions for improving the > situation. The only significant situation is that there is spam in the archives and very, very few people to deal with it. That is basically the thrust of Don Armstrong's point. Are you volunteering to help deal with it? Perhaps not. Extensive training to carry out the task would be required to ensure that personal agendas don't lead to unwarranted destruction. -- Brian.
Re: Actually [Re: Some spam]
On 04/21/2017 10:51 AM, Don Armstrong wrote: On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, fc wrote: Actually -- does anyone monitor this list for this type of stuff? Yes, listmas...@lists.debian.org does. I see these types of things come through periodically -- and 1 delete on the front end could prevent a lot of woe. We discard large swaths of spam. Some inevitably makes it through. People replying to known spam doesn't help, though. See https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam for what you can do to help There lies a significant problem. It states *IN PART* "There is a "report as spam" button in on the list archive page of each message." I believe the design of that button is flawed. It *ONLY* asks if respondent considers that message to be "SPAM". It DOES *NOT*: 1. ask for confirmation. 2. ask WHY message should be considered spam. Also, it does not apparently record *WHO* flagged a message as "spam". I verified that point by experiment. There ONE person on this list who routinely disagrees with me. I chose one of his most spurious posts. Using https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/... I viewed one of his sillier replies. I chose to report it as spam. That was apparent end of the evaluation process. I'm *NOT* suggesting that the poser should be banned. He occasionally posts useful comments. Who/What is appropriate authority to address suggestions for improving the situation. *Even more so* -- it seems like unauthorized users can email this list? Why not just restrict it to people who have subscribed? Because that just adds more hoops to jump through for people with a legitimate question, and lots of spam forges From addresses nowadays, anyway.
Re: Actually [Re: Some spam]
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, fc wrote: > Actually -- does anyone monitor this list for this type of stuff? Yes, listmas...@lists.debian.org does. > I see these types of things come through periodically -- and 1 delete > on the front end could prevent a lot of woe. We discard large swaths of spam. Some inevitably makes it through. People replying to known spam doesn't help, though. See https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam for what you can do to help > *Even more so* -- it seems like unauthorized users can email this > list? > > Why not just restrict it to people who have subscribed? Because that just adds more hoops to jump through for people with a legitimate question, and lots of spam forges From addresses nowadays, anyway. -- Don Armstrong https://www.donarmstrong.com Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. -- Oscar Wilde
