Re: Just a Proposition....:-)))
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: installation...:-)) I think installing and upgrading under X by just using the mouse pointer should be possible...and BTW other so called OS Well, instead of X... something like SVGALib would be better... because its less to install than X. But.. like my machine i'm typing away on now, Well, I think there are too many systems where SVGAlib is not an option (or at least not a good one) either. My primary system, for example, has a fixed frequency monitor that works in X and text mode (because I can configure the slightly non-standard mode it requires with XF86Config and SVGATextMode), but not SVGAlib (unless its mode setup is as flexible as X nowadays). While that may be a rather rare example (and I do have a slightly broken VGA monitor as a `backup', for changing CMOS settings and such, though it's a pain to change monitors), I wouldn't be surprised to hear of people using Debian with MDA/Hercules/CGA/EGA monitors or even no monitor at all (network servers, configuration via a serial port or the network interface). And I think it's even more common (especially for network servers) not to have a mouse. I think something as important as package installation should be as platform-independent as possible. Or we could do it the way the Linux kernel does it and have multiple interfaces... But, frankly, I think a text-mode interface is good enough. Dselect is a bit confusing now (or I thought so when I first installed Debian 1.1 a few months ago, though now I've got used to it), but I think it can be improved while keeping it in text mode. I think graphics and pretty pictures wouldn't make it easier to use. As for possible improvements, maybe you could have a package installation system `even easier than dselect', i.e. where you could select more generic things (`no X' / `X with a minimal amount of apps' / `X with most apps' / `X with everything', and so on). It should probably also have an `override' option where you could select the invidual packages (I think the current dselect would be good enough for this, though maybe a help page for `most commonly used keys' or something would be a good thing to add). Something else that I thought of: Maybe we could have a stripped-down version of dselect for first-time installations (as opposed to upgrading), so that first-time users wouldn't be confused by the multitude of options related to upgrading (e.g. the difference between _ and - to deselect packages). This could also save boot disk space (if the stripped-down dselect was a separate binary, and the installation procedure would install the full dselect later), though probably not by much. Just some ideas... -- -=- Rjs -=- [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- / I took the one less traveled by, / And that has made all the difference. -- Robert Frost, `The Road Not Taken' -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a Proposition....:-)))
While that may be a rather rare example (and I do have a slightly broken VGA monitor as a `backup', for changing CMOS settings and such, though it's a pain to change monitors), I wouldn't be surprised to hear of people using Debian with MDA/Hercules/CGA/EGA monitors or even no monitor at all (network servers, configuration via a serial port or the network interface). And I think it's even more common (especially for network servers) not to have a mouse. Raises hand. Yes, you're correct. I have two machines running Debian here at home; my personal workstation with SVGA etc, but also a server. The latter is a 486-DX-33 with 12mb RAM, Hercules/CGA video card and monitor, and no mouse. No X, SVGALIB etc on this machine .. hamish -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WG: Just a Proposition....:-)))
-- Von:Hamish Moffatt Gesendet: Samstag, 11. Januar 1997 06:59 An: Riku Saikkonen Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org Betreff:Re: Just a Proposition:-))) While that may be a rather rare example (and I do have a slightly broken VGA monitor as a `backup', for changing CMOS settings and such, though it's a pain to change monitors), I wouldn't be surprised to hear of people using Debian with MDA/Hercules/CGA/EGA monitors or even no monitor at all (network servers, configuration via a serial port or the network interface). And I think it's even more common (especially for network servers) not to have a mouse. Raises hand. Yes, you're correct. I have two machines running Debian here at home; my personal workstation with SVGA etc, but also a server. The latter is a 486-DX-33 with 12mb RAM, Hercules/CGA video card and monitor, and no mouse. No X, SVGALIB etc on this machine .. I fully agree, too. We have a couple of routers here which are running debian. They have SVGA-Cards (hard to get anything less new in germany) but are only runnin in text-mode. No mouse and keyboard and monitor are multiplexed. Regards Thomas Tomiczek System Administrator SIRECO INTERNET SERVICES GmbH -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a Proposition....:-)))
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: xdselect or xdpkg (without cryptic spells, just checkboxes). Of course there should be an option for all these who love the text version of the installation...:-)) I think installing and upgrading under X by just using the mouse pointer should be possible...and BTW other so called OS can do it too...more or less...:-))) Maybe someone is currently working on an installation routine like this and I think it would make debian more user friendly and debian would gain more users Well, instead of X... something like SVGALib would be better... because its less to install than X. But.. like my machine i'm typing away on now, only has a cheezy 256k video board in it and will have a monochrome vga monitor once I get the money to buy it. (I stole a monitor from one of my other systems for now) I don't want X to EVER EVER set foot on this system! This is my server, and nothing more. It is not a workstation. I do however have SVGALIB installed. And think svgalib would be more than easy to deal with, as far as vs. X. Doing away with dselect is not really an option. Unfortunately. :) -- Daniel Stringfield mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.southeast.net/~servo Send email for more information on the Jacksonville Linux Users Group! -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a Proposition....:-)))
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I'm just a newbie but I'd like a new installation routine for debian. I have the following proposition for future installation routines. First dselect is not very user friendly...and for a newbie it's say difficult to use...:-)) It gives the possibility to install MANY packages. Of course sometimes I do not know whether I'll ever need them. Later dpkg always needs magical spells to make it work. What U think about something like this: Yeah. That's probably the only gripe I have about Debian. dselect sucks. I hate it with a passion! I'm thinking it would be probably be just as easy to use dpkg directly. I love dpkg 'tho. The dselect program needs a rewrite, IMHO. Give it a better UI or something. == Arcadio Alivio Sincero, Jr. Undergraduate Computer Science Major/Linux Enthusiast/Competitive Bodybuilder email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW:Not available yet -- still looking for free webspace! Bare feet magnetize sharp metal objects so they point upward from the floor, especially in the dark. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just a Proposition....:-)))
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Daniel Stringfield wrote: I there, I do not consider X11 or svgalib based setup programs to be appropriate. dselect has to run in a very early stage of installing Debian. There are too many compatibility issues here. BUT, there is a tradition of relativelly good looking ncurses based installation/maintance tools. I do think that the current lookfeel of dselect is not attractive as a lot of other people mentioned. Some kind of EASY to understand accelleration keys. And a more structured layout like a folding editor would be nice. How about something like mc ala Norton clone. The packages could be organized in series aka folders. Well, instead of X... something like SVGALib would be better... because its less to install than X. But.. like my machine i'm typing away on now, only has a cheezy 256k video board in it and will have a monochrome vga monitor once I get the money to buy it. (I stole a monitor from one of my other systems for now) I don't want X to EVER EVER set foot on this system! This is my server, and nothing more. It is not a workstation. I do however have SVGALIB installed. And think svgalib would be more than easy to deal with, as far as vs. X. Doing away with dselect is not really an option. Unfortunately. :) Yours, -- martin // Martin Konold, Muenzgasse 7, 72070 Tuebingen, Germany // // Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] // Linux - because reboots are for hardware upgrades -- Edwin Huffstutler [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Just go ahead and write your own multitasking multiuser os ! Worked for me all the times. -- Linus Torvalds -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just a Proposition....:-)))
Hi to all...:-))) Well, I'm just a newbie but I'd like a new installation routine for debian. I have the following proposition for future installation routines. First dselect is not very user friendly...and for a newbie it's say difficult to use...:-)) It gives the possibility to install MANY packages. Of course sometimes I do not know whether I'll ever need them. Later dpkg always needs magical spells to make it work. What U think about something like this: A text based installation of the BASE system (whatever it is) plus X. Later we continue the installation under X by just using something like xdselect or xdpkg (without cryptic spells, just checkboxes). Of course there should be an option for all these who love the text version of the installation...:-)) I think installing and upgrading under X by just using the mouse pointer should be possible...and BTW other so called OS can do it too...more or less...:-))) Maybe someone is currently working on an installation routine like this and I think it would make debian more user friendly and debian would gain more users Greetings to all Jacek
Re: Just a Proposition....:-)))
On Mon, 6 Jan 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A text based installation of the BASE system (whatever it is) plus X. Later we continue the installation under X by just using something like xdselect or xdpkg (without cryptic spells, just checkboxes). Of course there should be an option for all these who love the text version of the installation...:-)) I think installing and upgrading under X by just using the mouse pointer should be possible...and BTW other so called OS can do it too...more or less...:-))) Maybe someone is currently working on an installation routine like this and I think it would make debian more user friendly and debian would gain more users The first time I tried to install X in was on a Diamond Viper before that particular card was supported. Later I encountered various revisions of the mach64, each time having to wait for one more beta of the server. Plus, I've encountered some very interesting mouse-related problems. So maybe this has warped my attitude. But personally, I don't want to even *think* about installing X on a system until I've already installed everything else. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
