Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 08/03/2019 07.39, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> results. I do remember that cached reads were about 1.1 GB/s for both >> the old and the new SSD after the slowness started. > > FWIW, the "cached read" speed of hdparm doesn't have much to do with the > SSD (it reads from the in-RAM cache, not from the in-"disk" cache, AFAIK). I am almost sure that you are correct. But to me it was a symptom showing that the system was indeed very slow with either of the SSDs installed, but not necessarily due to those drives. That combined with the slowness starting in or immediately after the grub-stage pointed me in the direction of a hardware-related issue. Reseating all removable hardware and connectors seems to have resolved most of the slowness (not all though). Meanwhile I have ordered a new laptop to replace my old Thinkpad W530 of 2012. In a few days I will be the proud owner of a maxed out Thinkpad P1. I am sure I will notice the increase in speed and especially the 32GB RAM when having multiple VMs open at a time. Can wait! Keeping my fingers crossed hoping the BIOS problems have been solved and it will be easy sailing installing current testing on it. Anyone have any experiences with this laptop to share? I'd appreciate to hear about it. P.S. This will be my fourth Thinkpad. All have been serving me for years before being replaced. This was the first that has ever given me any trouble. As a matter of fact all of them do still work. I do like those darn machines! Grx HdV
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
> results. I do remember that cached reads were about 1.1 GB/s for both > the old and the new SSD after the slowness started. FWIW, the "cached read" speed of hdparm doesn't have much to do with the SSD (it reads from the in-RAM cache, not from the in-"disk" cache, AFAIK). Stefan
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 06/03/2019 02.04, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > hdv@gmail wrote: >> On 05/03/2019 04.28, Paul Ezvan wrote: >>> Le 04/03/2019 à 13:32, deloptes a écrit : double check - I had similar observation when trying to setup USB stick boot for a notebook - it's a company property, so not supposed to do that ;-) Well turned out that I had to modify few bios settings to see the usb working at acceptable speed. First I was thinking the one stick was a problem, but after observing the same with a second one I looked at the bios and it did it. regards >>> >>> What does "top" show when your menu takes a long time to load? What is the >>> CPU >>> temp? Maybe you accidentaly touched the cooling system while replacing the >>> SSD? >> >> What I forgot to mention (sloppy, sorry for that) is that the slowness >> already >> happens at "grub" time. I presume that rules out trouble with my DE >> (KDE/Plasma) >> or systemd or something like that. >> >> I am thinking hardware trouble too. Not only because the trouble start before >> the kernel and DE gets loaded, but also because it happens with two different >> SSDs. It happens with the new one with a freshly installed system, and with >> the >> old one that I never had any trouble with before this and that hasn't been >> changed (by me that is). In both cases the slowness begins immediately after >> boot. Possibly after the BIOS has run, but definitely before the kernel gets >> loaded or otherwise during the earliest stages of loading it. >> >> Thanks for the pointer to the cooling. I will check that. >> >> Grx HdV > > > Is the bios still showing all the installed ram, are there any test you can > run > from the bios... Yep. All memory is detected. I ran the diagnostics utility of the BIOS and it found no errors. You'd think that a hardware failure would be detected. .. However, after that I dismantled the whole machine. I pulled out every connector and reseated it. I cleaned up all parts (as far as that was possible). And then ran the BIOS diagnostics again. Still no warnings. Then I rebooted the laptop. Lo and behold, everything is fine again! To be honest I still don't know what was wrong. But I am glad I can use this laptop again for now. This machine is 7 years old, maybe I should start thinking of buying a new one. I have had my eye on another Thinkpad (the P1) for some time now. Maybe it is time to bite the bullet... Thanks all for thinking with me! Grx HdV
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
hdv@gmail wrote: On 05/03/2019 04.28, Paul Ezvan wrote: Le 04/03/2019 à 13:32, deloptes a écrit : double check - I had similar observation when trying to setup USB stick boot for a notebook - it's a company property, so not supposed to do that ;-) Well turned out that I had to modify few bios settings to see the usb working at acceptable speed. First I was thinking the one stick was a problem, but after observing the same with a second one I looked at the bios and it did it. regards What does "top" show when your menu takes a long time to load? What is the CPU temp? Maybe you accidentaly touched the cooling system while replacing the SSD? What I forgot to mention (sloppy, sorry for that) is that the slowness already happens at "grub" time. I presume that rules out trouble with my DE (KDE/Plasma) or systemd or something like that. I am thinking hardware trouble too. Not only because the trouble start before the kernel and DE gets loaded, but also because it happens with two different SSDs. It happens with the new one with a freshly installed system, and with the old one that I never had any trouble with before this and that hasn't been changed (by me that is). In both cases the slowness begins immediately after boot. Possibly after the BIOS has run, but definitely before the kernel gets loaded or otherwise during the earliest stages of loading it. Thanks for the pointer to the cooling. I will check that. Grx HdV Is the bios still showing all the installed ram, are there any test you can run from the bios... -- Jimmy Johnson Slackware64 14.2 - KDE 4.14.32 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 05/03/2019 04.28, Paul Ezvan wrote: > Le 04/03/2019 à 13:32, deloptes a écrit : >> double check - I had similar observation when trying to setup USB stick boot >> for a notebook - it's a company property, so not supposed to do that ;-) >> >> Well turned out that I had to modify few bios settings to see the usb >> working at acceptable speed. First I was thinking the one stick was a >> problem, but after observing the same with a second one I looked at the >> bios and it did it. >> >> regards > > What does "top" show when your menu takes a long time to load? What is the CPU > temp? Maybe you accidentaly touched the cooling system while replacing the > SSD? What I forgot to mention (sloppy, sorry for that) is that the slowness already happens at "grub" time. I presume that rules out trouble with my DE (KDE/Plasma) or systemd or something like that. I am thinking hardware trouble too. Not only because the trouble start before the kernel and DE gets loaded, but also because it happens with two different SSDs. It happens with the new one with a freshly installed system, and with the old one that I never had any trouble with before this and that hasn't been changed (by me that is). In both cases the slowness begins immediately after boot. Possibly after the BIOS has run, but definitely before the kernel gets loaded or otherwise during the earliest stages of loading it. Thanks for the pointer to the cooling. I will check that. Grx HdV
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
Le 04/03/2019 à 13:32, deloptes a écrit : double check - I had similar observation when trying to setup USB stick boot for a notebook - it's a company property, so not supposed to do that ;-) Well turned out that I had to modify few bios settings to see the usb working at acceptable speed. First I was thinking the one stick was a problem, but after observing the same with a second one I looked at the bios and it did it. regards What does "top" show when your menu takes a long time to load? What is the CPU temp? Maybe you accidentaly touched the cooling system while replacing the SSD? Paul
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
hdv@gmail wrote: > Could have been the case. But I have rebooted the laptop before replacing > the SSD to look at the BIOS settings. So in this case this was not so. double check - I had similar observation when trying to setup USB stick boot for a notebook - it's a company property, so not supposed to do that ;-) Well turned out that I had to modify few bios settings to see the usb working at acceptable speed. First I was thinking the one stick was a problem, but after observing the same with a second one I looked at the bios and it did it. regards
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 3/4/19 12:21 PM, hdv@gmail wrote: On 04/03/2019 16.14, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: On 04.03.2019 19:40, hdv@gmail wrote: On 04/03/2019 15.36, Ric Moore wrote: On 3/4/19 9:19 AM, hdv@gmail wrote: ame day, no old image was used. Right, but if you didn't use a "clean install" more than likely an old configuration might be at fault. I don't have an SSD but during the install process, wouldn't that drive be re-formatted?? Trouble shooting with a shotgun. Ric Maybe, but that would only account for the trouble with the new SSD. As I wrote, the old SSD was never changed at all. Nor was the BIOS. The system ran fine before I took that SSD out. You'd expect the system to run fine when putting it back in. Grx HdV Unless you didn't performed a reboot in a long time or\and used hibernation. Could have been the case. But I have rebooted the laptop before replacing the SSD to look at the BIOS settings. So in this case this was not so. I'm just throwing suggestions blindly, because things could go wrong in many ways if poking inside laptop case is involved. Indeed. Do you have another drive installed in this laptop in tray caddy, perhaps, or in second drive slot if it is available? Nope. How much RAM your laptop have? Does it all detected by BIOS\OS? There is 8GB of RAM and it is all detected. Both before and after this mess. It is possible you have damaged some passive parts around SATA connector during drive swap procedures. Inspect that location with magnifying glass for possible damage to small SMD elements and inspect SATA connector itself for possible cracks in solder joints. I did think of hardware damage myself as well, but my inspection did not show any visible damage. Not that that says all, but at least it is an indicator. If everything is ok, it wouldn't hurt to insert and remove drive into SATA connector multiple times just to ensure all contact pads in connector have a good contact. Thanks for the suggestion. I tried this too. Alas, without any improvement. You could say I am at a loss... Also show us SMART information for both SSD drives: $ sudo smartctl --all /dev/sda Or, back up what you can (but no /home or /etc user/system configs) then install *CLEAN* reformatting everything. OR, do a live install desktop and see how that runs before the installation. If it's good, nuke everything and do a clean formatted install. Best not to copy the old /home or /etc back. Trouble shooting again with a shotgun and waving my hands hovery hovery. Ric
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 04/03/2019 16.14, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote: > On 04.03.2019 19:40, hdv@gmail wrote: >> On 04/03/2019 15.36, Ric Moore wrote: >>> On 3/4/19 9:19 AM, hdv@gmail wrote: ame day, no old image was used. >>> Right, but if you didn't use a "clean install" more than likely an old >>> configuration might be at fault. I don't have an SSD but during the install >>> process, wouldn't that drive be re-formatted?? Trouble shooting with a >>> shotgun. Ric >>> >> Maybe, but that would only account for the trouble with the new SSD. As I >> wrote, >> the old SSD was never changed at all. Nor was the BIOS. The system ran fine >> before I took that SSD out. You'd expect the system to run fine when putting >> it >> back in. >> >> Grx HdV >> > Unless you didn't performed a reboot in a long time or\and used hibernation. Could have been the case. But I have rebooted the laptop before replacing the SSD to look at the BIOS settings. So in this case this was not so. > I'm just throwing suggestions blindly, because things could go wrong in many > ways if poking inside laptop case is involved. Indeed. > Do you have another drive installed in this laptop in tray caddy, perhaps, or > in > second drive slot if it is available? Nope. > How much RAM your laptop have? Does it all detected by BIOS\OS? There is 8GB of RAM and it is all detected. Both before and after this mess. > It is possible you have damaged some passive parts around SATA connector > during > drive swap procedures. Inspect that location with magnifying glass for > possible > damage to small SMD elements and inspect SATA connector itself for possible > cracks in solder joints. I did think of hardware damage myself as well, but my inspection did not show any visible damage. Not that that says all, but at least it is an indicator. > If everything is ok, it wouldn't hurt to insert and remove drive into SATA > connector multiple times just to ensure all contact pads in connector have a > good contact. Thanks for the suggestion. I tried this too. Alas, without any improvement. You could say I am at a loss... > Also show us SMART information for both SSD drives: > $ sudo smartctl --all /dev/sda I'll try to run the the command again, but it might take an extremely long time to finish. I did before (during diagnosis) but did not copy or type over the results. I do remember that cached reads were about 1.1 GB/s for both the old and the new SSD after the slowness started. Thanks for trying to help! Grx HdV
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 04.03.2019 19:40, hdv@gmail wrote: > On 04/03/2019 15.36, Ric Moore wrote: >> On 3/4/19 9:19 AM, hdv@gmail wrote: >>> ame day, no old image was used. >> Right, but if you didn't use a "clean install" more than likely an old >> configuration might be at fault. I don't have an SSD but during the install >> process, wouldn't that drive be re-formatted?? Trouble shooting with a >> shotgun. Ric >> > Maybe, but that would only account for the trouble with the new SSD. As I > wrote, > the old SSD was never changed at all. Nor was the BIOS. The system ran fine > before I took that SSD out. You'd expect the system to run fine when putting > it > back in. > > Grx HdV > Unless you didn't performed a reboot in a long time or\and used hibernation. I'm just throwing suggestions blindly, because things could go wrong in many ways if poking inside laptop case is involved. Do you have another drive installed in this laptop in tray caddy, perhaps, or in second drive slot if it is available? How much RAM your laptop have? Does it all detected by BIOS\OS? It is possible you have damaged some passive parts around SATA connector during drive swap procedures. Inspect that location with magnifying glass for possible damage to small SMD elements and inspect SATA connector itself for possible cracks in solder joints. If everything is ok, it wouldn't hurt to insert and remove drive into SATA connector multiple times just to ensure all contact pads in connector have a good contact. Also show us SMART information for both SSD drives: $ sudo smartctl --all /dev/sda -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 04/03/2019 15.36, Ric Moore wrote: > On 3/4/19 9:19 AM, hdv@gmail wrote: >> ame day, no old image was used. > > Right, but if you didn't use a "clean install" more than likely an old > configuration might be at fault. I don't have an SSD but during the install > process, wouldn't that drive be re-formatted?? Trouble shooting with a > shotgun. Ric > Maybe, but that would only account for the trouble with the new SSD. As I wrote, the old SSD was never changed at all. Nor was the BIOS. The system ran fine before I took that SSD out. You'd expect the system to run fine when putting it back in. Grx HdV
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 04/03/2019 13.53, Hans wrote: > Am Montag, 4. März 2019, 13:04:53 CET schrieb hdv@gmail: > Hi, > > try to start with a livefile system, then check the ssd speed. Thus you see, > if > the problem is by the operating system or by the hardware. > > If it is same slow, then you know a hardware problem. > > Check the BIOS configurations of the harddrive, mybe something has changed by > the ssd exchange. > > If there is nothing obvious bad, try the ssd in another computer (with the > same livefile test) and see the results. > > If this is better, you can also try to reflash the BIOS (in case, the BIOS > has > trouble itself). Sometimes a mainboard needs a newer BIOS for newer hardware. > This depends on the manufacturer. Check his sites. > > Last but not least, exchange the cables, maybe one makes trouble. > > Hope this helps > > Best > > Hans Hi Hans (and others), Thanks for taking the time. Upon rereading my original mail I see I was not clear enough. This is what I did: 0] Notice the SSD was getting full. Otherwise the machine was OK. No signs of trouble. Adequate performance. 1] Check if all settings in the BIOS were OK for the new SSD. They were. Nothing needed changing. 2] Turn off the machine and lift the keyboard. 2] Remove the old SSD from the mSATA slot. (SanDisk U100 16GB) 3] Place the new SSD in that same slot. (Samsung EVO 860 500GB) 4] Close up the machine. 5] Boot from a netinstall image on a USB-stick. The image was downloaded at that same day, no old image was used. 6] Install current stable on the new SSD. Update to testing after install. (The original SSD was running a very recently updated testing as well.) 7] Reboot laptop. 8] Get scared from how slow it is. Tried to find out what was causing this. No obvious indications found with hparm, smart and other tools. Neither in the logs. 9] Shut down machine. 10] Place old SSD back in its old slot. 11] Start machine expecting everything would be as it was before beginning with step 1. That turned out to be not the case: it still is as slow as found during step 8. To summarise: nothing was changed in the BIOS, nothing was changed on the original SSD. Same boot sequence was used. As far as I can see the mSATA slot is connected directly to the motherboard, no cables to see. My first mail was about what could be causing the laptop to behave differently, even though nothing was changed in the BIOS and the original SSD hadn't been touched. I'd like to solve that mystery first, before trying to make the new SSD work as it should. I need this machine for work, so my first priority is to restore it to a workable state. Grx HdV
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 3/4/19 7:04 AM, hdv@gmail wrote: > Hi all, > > The mSATA SSD in my Thinkpad W530 was getting full,. So I tried to replace it > with a new larger one (Samsung EVO 860). I knew about the mSATA II vs III > issue > and the BIOS AHCI setting. What I didn't expect was the laptop to slow down > to a > crawl. To illustrate: even opening de start menu is so slow that you have to > wait for the panel to show for about 10 seconds. Like this the machine is > completely unusable. I expected not to be able to run the new SSD at full > speed > (max 3 GB/s on the port in this machine), but this is crazy. > > It gets even crazier. Placing the old SSD back in the slot resulted in the > same > slow speeds as with the new SSD in. Not the old speeds. Before this experiment > the laptop was just fine. It was quick enough, the storage was just getting > filled up. > > Can anyone give me some pointers on how to diagnose or maybe even fix this? > ... Boot from live media; reset BIOS to defaults; check for W530 BIOS update; SSD firmware update; ... -- Sarunas Burdulis Systems Administrator, Dartmouth Mathematics math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
Am Montag, 4. März 2019, 13:04:53 CET schrieb hdv@gmail: Hi, try to start with a livefile system, then check the ssd speed. Thus you see, if the problem is by the operating system or by the hardware. If it is same slow, then you know a hardware problem. Check the BIOS configurations of the harddrive, mybe something has changed by the ssd exchange. If there is nothing obvious bad, try the ssd in another computer (with the same livefile test) and see the results. If this is better, you can also try to reflash the BIOS (in case, the BIOS has trouble itself). Sometimes a mainboard needs a newer BIOS for newer hardware. This depends on the manufacturer. Check his sites. Last but not least, exchange the cables, maybe one makes trouble. Hope this helps Best Hans > Hi all, > > The mSATA SSD in my Thinkpad W530 was getting full,. So I tried to replace > it with a new larger one (Samsung EVO 860). I knew about the mSATA II vs > III issue and the BIOS AHCI setting. What I didn't expect was the laptop to > slow down to a crawl. To illustrate: even opening de start menu is so slow > that you have to wait for the panel to show for about 10 seconds. Like this > the machine is completely unusable. I expected not to be able to run the > new SSD at full speed (max 3 GB/s on the port in this machine), but this is > crazy. > > It gets even crazier. Placing the old SSD back in the slot resulted in the > same slow speeds as with the new SSD in. Not the old speeds. Before this > experiment the laptop was just fine. It was quick enough, the storage was > just getting filled up. > > Can anyone give me some pointers on how to diagnose or maybe even fix this? > Running hdparm doesn't make me any wiser (timed cache read value is about > 1.1 GB/s). Google didn't point me to anything I could use either. I would > be very glad to just get the old speeds back, let alone to get the new disk > running at somewhat adequate speeds on a mSATA II port). > > Thanks in advance. > > Grx HdV signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
On 04.03.2019 17:04, hdv@gmail wrote: > Hi all, > > The mSATA SSD in my Thinkpad W530 was getting full,. So I tried to replace it > with a new larger one (Samsung EVO 860). I knew about the mSATA II vs III > issue > and the BIOS AHCI setting. What I didn't expect was the laptop to slow down > to a > crawl. To illustrate: even opening de start menu is so slow that you have to > wait for the panel to show for about 10 seconds. Like this the machine is > completely unusable. I expected not to be able to run the new SSD at full > speed > (max 3 GB/s on the port in this machine), but this is crazy. > > It gets even crazier. Placing the old SSD back in the slot resulted in the > same > slow speeds as with the new SSD in. Not the old speeds. Before this experiment > the laptop was just fine. It was quick enough, the storage was just getting > filled up. > > Can anyone give me some pointers on how to diagnose or maybe even fix this? > Running hdparm doesn't make me any wiser (timed cache read value is about 1.1 > GB/s). Google didn't point me to anything I could use either. I would be very > glad to just get the old speeds back, let alone to get the new disk running at > somewhat adequate speeds on a mSATA II port). > > Thanks in advance. > > Grx HdV > With symptoms like these it could be something else, to blame. When you installed a new SSD, did you reinstalled the OS completely, or somehow transfered\migrated it from an old SSD? These slowdowns (open start menu) are temporary and happen sporadically, or they happen every time you click on the start menu? Did you look for any interesting error\warning messages in syslog or in xsession log? Do you use LVM with snapshots? What filesystems do you use? Show us your /etc/fstab Also, tell us more about your system, is it stable branch, what kernel version, what DE you are using, etc. -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Laptop still extremely slow after replacing msata ssd and putting old one back
Hi all, The mSATA SSD in my Thinkpad W530 was getting full,. So I tried to replace it with a new larger one (Samsung EVO 860). I knew about the mSATA II vs III issue and the BIOS AHCI setting. What I didn't expect was the laptop to slow down to a crawl. To illustrate: even opening de start menu is so slow that you have to wait for the panel to show for about 10 seconds. Like this the machine is completely unusable. I expected not to be able to run the new SSD at full speed (max 3 GB/s on the port in this machine), but this is crazy. It gets even crazier. Placing the old SSD back in the slot resulted in the same slow speeds as with the new SSD in. Not the old speeds. Before this experiment the laptop was just fine. It was quick enough, the storage was just getting filled up. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to diagnose or maybe even fix this? Running hdparm doesn't make me any wiser (timed cache read value is about 1.1 GB/s). Google didn't point me to anything I could use either. I would be very glad to just get the old speeds back, let alone to get the new disk running at somewhat adequate speeds on a mSATA II port). Thanks in advance. Grx HdV
