Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Wim]

On Tuesday, 12 November at 15:40, Dejan Jocic wrote:

> > >> I thought everybody just used a mailcap file and was fine.
> > >
> > > I do and have it setup to use w3m to deal with most HTML mail.  Some
> > > does look better in a GUI program and that's why I do this.
> > >
> text/html;  firefox -new-tab %s & sleep 5; test=test -n "$DISPLAY";
> nametemplate=%s.html
> text/html;  lynx -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput
> 

In my mailcap I've got:

text/html; w3m -I %{charset} -T text/html -dump; copiousoutput; \ 
print = qutebrowser %s; nametemplate=%s.html

where pressing p for print in the attachment menu opens the html mail in
qutebrowser. 


-- 
All the best
Wim

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[David Wright]

On Tue 12 Nov 2019 at 09:23:54 (-), Curt wrote:
> On 2019-11-08, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> >
> >> I thought everybody just used a mailcap file and was fine.
> >
> > I do and have it setup to use w3m to deal with most HTML mail.  Some
> > does look better in a GUI program and that's why I do this.
> >
> 
> Well, then
> 
>  text/html;  /usr/bin/firefox %s >/dev/null 2>&1; needsterminal
>  text/html;  elinks -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput
> 
> Or something like it. Needing or preferring a gui client doesn't seem
> preclude using a mailcap file (or vice versa). 
> 
> I'm not a mutt user, though, so maybe I got it wrong. I also forgot what
> the "this" was in the "that's why I do this" above.

The following is what I use in my mailcap-mutt file. My priorities
in handling HTML emails at all (which I believe should only be
exchanged between consenting adults) are to disentangle running
text into paragraphs and then colour them so that the parties to
the conversation can be distinguished:

## The first occurrence takes priority
# the next line is used immediately the email is opened, so you don't see the 
text alternative
#text/html; /usr/bin/html2text; copiousoutput
# the next line is used immediately the email is opened, so you don't see the 
text alternative
#text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -dump -T text/html; copiousoutput
# the next line is used only when an html attachment is selected in the 
attachments menu
text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -force-html -localhost -stdin
# the next line is used only when an html attachment is selected in the 
attachments menu
#text/html; cat | /usr/bin/elinks -dump -dump-color-mode 4 -force-html 
-localhost 1 | less -r
# the next line is used immediately the email is opened, so you don't see the 
text alternative
#text/html; /usr/bin/elinks -dump -force-html -localhost 1; copiousoutput

The mailcap file is triggered by the lines:

auto_view   text/html # immediate display (without v command), assumes 
mailcap support
set mailcap_path=$HOME/.mutt/mailcap-mutt # needed for auto_view

in my ~/.mutt/muttrc file. As you can see, I prefer to have to choose
to read the HTML whenever the text version is indecipherable, rather
than having it pop up straight away (in favour of the text version).

I might consider using a GUI to display the HTML, but not unless I can
find a browser that has the equivalent of -localhost, which none does¹.
With lynx I can see the links and list them, but not follow them. For
that I use cut and paste.

(On which topic, it took me a while to stumble on this xterm resource:
XTerm*cutNewline:   false
which prevents triple-clicking from including the newline.)

¹ Suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
David.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Dejan Jocic]

On 12-11-19, Curt wrote:
> On 2019-11-08, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> >
> >> I thought everybody just used a mailcap file and was fine.
> >
> > I do and have it setup to use w3m to deal with most HTML mail.  Some
> > does look better in a GUI program and that's why I do this.
> >
> 
> Well, then
> 
>  text/html;  /usr/bin/firefox %s >/dev/null 2>&1; needsterminal
>  text/html;  elinks -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput
> 
> Or something like it. Needing or preferring a gui client doesn't seem
> preclude using a mailcap file (or vice versa). 
> 
> I'm not a mutt user, though, so maybe I got it wrong. I also forgot what
> the "this" was in the "that's why I do this" above.
> 
> ;-)

text/html;  firefox -new-tab %s & sleep 5; test=test -n "$DISPLAY";
nametemplate=%s.html
text/html;  lynx -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput

Or at least that works here. I'm sure that it can be done better though,
but did not have need to dig in more into it.

All best,
Dejan

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Curt]

On 2019-11-08, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
>
>> I thought everybody just used a mailcap file and was fine.
>
> I do and have it setup to use w3m to deal with most HTML mail.  Some
> does look better in a GUI program and that's why I do this.
>

Well, then

 text/html;  /usr/bin/firefox %s >/dev/null 2>&1; needsterminal
 text/html;  elinks -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput

Or something like it. Needing or preferring a gui client doesn't seem
preclude using a mailcap file (or vice versa). 

I'm not a mutt user, though, so maybe I got it wrong. I also forgot what
the "this" was in the "that's why I do this" above.

;-)


-- 
“The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence
is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.” 
"Speak, Memory," Vladimir Nabokov

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2019 07 Nov 10:27 -0600, Curt wrote:
> On 2019-11-07, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> >
> >
> > What I did was set up an account at my domain that I can "bounce" mail
> > from Neomutt and then fetch it via Evolution that is configured only for
> > that account.  It worked well for those HTML/Javascript only mails I get
> > on occasion.  Since I use Gnome, I get Evolution "for free", heh!
> 
> I thought everybody just used a mailcap file and was fine.

I do and have it setup to use w3m to deal with most HTML mail.  Some
does look better in a GUI program and that's why I do this.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2019 07 Nov 19:12 -0600, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok, thanks -- so, iiuc, you have more than one email account, and you use one 
> of those accounts to forward mail to the other machine.

Right, though it's just to another program on the same machine via
another email account, but that's the concept.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, November 07, 2019 12:40:48 PM Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2019 07 Nov 09:10 -0600, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 07, 2019 09:06:25 AM Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > > A bit late...
> > > 
> > > What I did was set up an account at my domain
> > 
> > I don't understand what you mean by "domain" -- do you mean your ISP,
> > your (local) LAN, or just a domain name that you've registered with a
> > registration agent?
> > 
> > If the latter, how does that actually work -- I mean, for example, is an
> > ISP involved?
> 
> Yes, I have the domain n0nb.us registered and have the hosting through
> QTH.com.  Along with that an email account is part of my subscription,
> hence my email address.  The email is retrieved using fetchmail and the
> POP3 protocol.  Mail is sent using SMTP through Exim.  Access to the
> hosting provider is through my ISP.
> 
> As I don't store mail at the ISP I can make multiple email accounts that
> get POPped frequently.

Ok, thanks -- so, iiuc, you have more than one email account, and you use one 
of those accounts to forward mail to the other machine.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2019 07 Nov 09:10 -0600, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, November 07, 2019 09:06:25 AM Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > A bit late...
> > 
> > What I did was set up an account at my domain 
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by "domain" -- do you mean your ISP, your 
> (local) LAN, or just a domain name that you've registered with a registration 
> agent?
> 
> If the latter, how does that actually work -- I mean, for example, is an ISP 
> involved?

Yes, I have the domain n0nb.us registered and have the hosting through
QTH.com.  Along with that an email account is part of my subscription,
hence my email address.  The email is retrieved using fetchmail and the
POP3 protocol.  Mail is sent using SMTP through Exim.  Access to the
hosting provider is through my ISP.

As I don't store mail at the ISP I can make multiple email accounts that
get POPped frequently.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Curt]

On 2019-11-07, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
>
>
> What I did was set up an account at my domain that I can "bounce" mail
> from Neomutt and then fetch it via Evolution that is configured only for
> that account.  It worked well for those HTML/Javascript only mails I get
> on occasion.  Since I use Gnome, I get Evolution "for free", heh!

I thought everybody just used a mailcap file and was fine.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/mutt#Viewing_HTML

I must be missing the genuine motivation behind this long thread
somehow.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, November 07, 2019 09:06:25 AM Nate Bargmann wrote:
> A bit late...
> 
> What I did was set up an account at my domain 

I don't understand what you mean by "domain" -- do you mean your ISP, your 
(local) LAN, or just a domain name that you've registered with a registration 
agent?

If the latter, how does that actually work -- I mean, for example, is an ISP 
involved?




> that I can "bounce" mail
> from Neomutt and then fetch it via Evolution that is configured only for
> that account.  It worked well for those HTML/Javascript only mails I get
> on occasion.  Since I use Gnome, I get Evolution "for free", heh!
> 
> - Nate

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Nate Bargmann]

A bit late...

What I did was set up an account at my domain that I can "bounce" mail
from Neomutt and then fetch it via Evolution that is configured only for
that account.  It worked well for those HTML/Javascript only mails I get
on occasion.  Since I use Gnome, I get Evolution "for free", heh!

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

On Thu, Nov 07, 2019 at 04:31:35AM +, mick crane wrote:

I've settled on Roundcube, Dovecot, Sieve, getmail


Roundcube is what my old ISP was using for the webmail interface, and
I used it for almost a year.  But I never thought of it as a package
for my desktop.  And it is in the Debian archive.  Thanks.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[mick crane]

On 2019-11-04 23:22, Russell L. Harris wrote:

Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
(or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
seems not to be a good solution for such messages.

What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
a click?

I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.


I've settled on Roundcube, Dovecot, Sieve, getmail, and whatever 
roundcube uses to send.
Can view in text or HTML, view or don't view images by clicking a 
button.

All in one place accessible from anywhere locally.
A little bit of a faff to set up but plenty of documentation.

mick



--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

On Wed, Nov 06, 2019 at 09:43:00AM -0500, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

Just to throw one more suggestion into the ring, I'm sure older versions of
kmail can do what you want, like the one in KDE 4.8.4 / Debian Wheezy (kmail
1.13.7).


The few times I have used KDE stuff it has been impressive.  But for a
long time I had difficulty taking KDE seriously, because of the crude,
child-like icons.  Also, icon-oriented menus require the rodent, and I
hate mice, whether attached to the computer or living in the barn.
Still, anything which works is better than anything else that doesn't work.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

On Wed, Nov 06, 2019 at 01:13:10PM +, ? wrote:

How about Gnus? Below is example:
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/Gnus/blob/master/ss/IMG_20191106_215916_resized_20191106_100052740.jpg


I did consider Gnus.  My editor is Emacs, and ten or more years ago I
did run Gnus, for about a year.  But Gnus is a bit complicated to
configure, and is even more esoteric than is Emacs.  I may take
another look at Gnus.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[rhkramer]

On Wednesday, November 06, 2019 08:13:10 AM 황병희 wrote:
> > Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> > (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> > seems not to be a good solution for such messages.

Just to throw one more suggestion into the ring, I'm sure older versions of 
kmail can do what you want, like the one in KDE 4.8.4 / Debian Wheezy (kmail 
1.13.7).

You might have to do a little futzing around, I'm not sure you could directly 
make your maildir the "inbox" in kmail (but maybe, I don't really know).

What I do for some things like this is put a symlink (soft link) in the kmail 
mail directory (in my case //Mail) and then kmail finds them and can open 
them just fine (and, I can reply if I want to).

I forget how I convinced kmail to use  //Mail instead of its default as 
the mail directory -- presumably a setting in the kmail config file.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[황병희]

"Russell L. Harris"  writes:

> Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> seems not to be a good solution for such messages.

How about Gnus? Below is example:
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/Gnus/blob/master/ss/IMG_20191106_215916_resized_20191106_100052740.jpg

> What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
> structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
> a click?
>
> I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.
>
>

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[황병희]

"Russell L. Harris"  writes:

> Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> seems not to be a good solution for such messages.

How about Gnus? Below is example:
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/Gnus/blob/master/ss/IMG_20191106_215916_resized_20191106_100052740.jpg

> What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
> structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
> a click?
>
> I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.
>
>

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[황병희]

"Russell L. Harris"  writes:

> Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> seems not to be a good solution for such messages.

How about Gnus? Below is example:
https://gitlab.com/soyeomul/Gnus/blob/master/ss/IMG_20191106_215916_resized_20191106_100052740.jpg

> What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
> structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
> a click?
>
> I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Mark Rousell]

On 05/11/2019 05:57, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> For some reason which I do not immediately recall, I chose POP3 over
> IMAP the last time I had the option.

That would make sense. POP3 is best for when you want to download
everything for local processing, as you are doing.

IMAP makes more sense where you want to keep mail on the server to be
accessed by local mail clients.

> As to overkill, I lived for five years or more with the webmail client
> of my ISP; compared to that, anything else is a pleasure.

:-)

> I might could live with that arrangement, but only if I do not lose
> messages because Dovecot decides they have been read and have aged too
> long to keep.
> [...]
> I still am bothered by the possibility of accidentally telling
> Thunderbird or
> another client to delete a message.  It would be nice if Dovecot could
> be run in a read-only mode.

As mentioned, I'm not deeply familiar with Dovecot but I'd be surprised
if it could not be configured to protect your mail store from accidental
deletion in this way.

Also, you could potentially get getmail to write two copies of your
maildir structure: One for active use and the other as a pristine
original record. Or perhaps one for Mutt and the other for Dovecot.

> Whichever way I go, I thank you for recommending the IMAP approach.

Glad to help.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 05:30:10AM +, Mark Rousell wrote:

Before I go on, I should say that this is now an area with which I am not
overly familiar in detail. I know Thunderbird very well but I am not familiar
in detail with getmail, Dovecot or maildir structures.


No problem; I know getmail and maildir, but my last usage of
Thunderbird was ten years ago.


I should also say that I only suggested setting up a local IMAP server as a way
to let Thunderbird access your email. My smiley was because this might be
overkill solely in order to see emails with HTML content! But it's not actually
that unreasonable, come to think of it.


For some reason which I do not immediately recall, I chose POP3 over
IMAP the last time I had the option.

As to overkill, I lived for five years or more with the webmail client
of my ISP; compared to that, anything else is a pleasure.


I just had a quick look at this HOWTO and it seems to focus on using fetchmail
to store mail in mbox format with Dovecot as the IMAP server. From your
comments, you're using getmail and maildir so you could not follow the HOWTO
exactly but you can still apply the same principles to place email in a place
where Dovecot can find it. I have not done it myself but I understand that you
should be able to configure Dovecot to look at your getmail's maildir
structure.


I have heard that getmail is more reliable than fetchmail, and I know
from personal experience that getmail is rock solid.  I may hold the
world record for the number of messages downloaded in a nonstop
marathon lasting several days; this was a few years back.


I'm going to refer to Dovecot as your local IMAP server below on the assumption
that you choose Dovecot to do the IMAP job, but other IMAP servers are
available.


Understood.


As I understand it, at the moment you are using getmail to collect
mail from your ISP (presumably using IMAP or POP3)


POP3


and store it locally in a maildir structure. Mutt reads from the
maildir structure.


Correct.


If you were to install Dovecot as an IMAP server alongside of this then (as I
understand it, as I've not done it myself) Dovecot could also read from the
same maildir structure.



Mail clients like Thunderbird could then access your local Dovecot IMAP server,
which in turn would show them the contents of your maildir structure.


I might could live with that arrangement, but only if I do not lose
messages because Dovecot decides they have been read and have aged too
long to keep.


So the Dovecot IMAP server (and any mail clients like Thunderbird that connect
to it) could see all your email (whatever is in your maildir structure) but
email would not be routed through the IMAP server, as such. It's just that the
IMAP server could access it as needed.


I still am bothered by the possibility of accidentally telling Thunderbird or
another client to delete a message.  It would be nice if Dovecot could
be run in a read-only mode.

Whichever way I go, I thank you for recommending the IMAP approach.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[darb]

* Russell L. Harris wrote:
> Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> seems not to be a good solution for such messages.
> 
> What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
> structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
> a click?
 
The solution I use to view html email that doesnt play nicely with w3m
autoview or urlscan is to pipe the message to firefox with the mailcap
entry:

text/html; firefox %s && sleep 2;

Open the attachments menu (v) select the text/html message and hit
enter. The html message will then open in firefox and any links can be
clicked as required.


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Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 23:22:58 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:

> Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> seems not to be a good solution for such messages.
> 
> What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
> structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
> a click?

You might look at Claws-Mail. It will handle maildir. It will render
HTML emails as plain text, and has plugins if you want to get fancier.

> 
> I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.

Claws-mail does not do outgoing HTML mail; text email only. It might
serve your purpose there as well.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Mark Rousell]

Before I go on, I should say that this is now an area with which I am
not overly familiar in detail. I know Thunderbird very well but I am not
familiar in detail with getmail, Dovecot or maildir structures. However,
I know the principles and I'll do my best to reply usefully below.

On 05/11/2019 04:44, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 04:10:17AM +, Mark Rousell wrote:
>> Set up a local IMAP server instead? :-)
>
> I found a HOWTO:
> https://www.linux.com/news/how-build-local-imap-server/
> but I have not read though it.

I should also say that I only suggested setting up a local IMAP server
as a way to let Thunderbird access your email. My smiley was because
this might be overkill solely in order to see emails with HTML content!
But it's not actually that unreasonable, come to think of it.

I just had a quick look at this HOWTO and it seems to focus on using
fetchmail to store mail in mbox format with Dovecot as the IMAP server.
>From your comments, you're using getmail and maildir so you could not
follow the HOWTO exactly but you can still apply the same principles to
place email in a place where Dovecot can find it. I have not done it
myself but I understand that you should be able to configure Dovecot to
look at your getmail's maildir structure.

I'm going to refer to Dovecot as your local IMAP server below on the
assumption that you choose Dovecot to do the IMAP job, but other IMAP
servers are available.

> Is it necessary to route all my mail through the local IMAP server?

No (but read on). As I understand it, at the moment you are using
getmail to collect mail from your ISP (presumably using IMAP or POP3)
and store it locally in a maildir structure. Mutt reads from the maildir
structure.

If you were to install Dovecot as an IMAP server alongside of this then
(as I understand it, as I've not done it myself) Dovecot could also read
from the same maildir structure.

Mail clients like Thunderbird could then access your local Dovecot IMAP
server, which in turn would show them the contents of your maildir
structure.

So the Dovecot IMAP server (and any mail clients like Thunderbird that
connect to it) could see all your email (whatever is in your maildir
structure) but email would not be routed through the IMAP server, as
such. It's just that the IMAP server could access it as needed.

> Mail with getmail and Mutt now is running nicely, and I am hesitant to
> monkey with a system which I understand and with which I am comfortable.

Yup, I understand. As above, you need not (as far as I can tell) alter
your working system. Getmail, the maildir structure, and Mutt should
continue to work. The Dovecot (or other IMAP server) would just access
the maildir structure as needed.

Note that there may be complications in adding Dovecot to your existing
getmail, maildir, Mutt set up but in principle it should work.

> I am thinking that, inasmuch as I have web hosting for my weather
> station, and the web hosting agreement includes email (which I have
> not bothered to set up, because I have not had need for it), the
> easiest solution is to set up an email account on the URL of the
> weather station web site, forward problematic messages to that
> account, then configure a GUI mail client for that mail account, or
> else use the webmail interface of the ISP. 

Yup, you could do that. But if you are happy with processing you email
locally then I personally think it would be preferable to keep doing so
with your own local IMAP server.

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 04:10:17AM +, Mark Rousell wrote:

Set up a local IMAP server instead? :-)


I found a HOWTO:
https://www.linux.com/news/how-build-local-imap-server/
but I have not read though it.

Is it necessary to route all my mail through the local IMAP server?
Mail with getmail and Mutt now is running nicely, and I am hesitant to
monkey with a system which I understand and with which I am comfortable.

I am thinking that, inasmuch as I have web hosting for my weather
station, and the web hosting agreement includes email (which I have
not bothered to set up, because I have not had need for it), the
easiest solution is to set up an email account on the URL of the
weather station web site, forward problematic messages to that
account, then configure a GUI mail client for that mail account, or
else use the webmail interface of the ISP.  

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Mark Rousell]

On 05/11/2019 03:04, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> I installed Thunderbird -- what a huge truck-load of stuff!  But the
> configuration wizard would not allow me simply to point Thunderbird to
> the maildir to which getmail delivers incoming messages.

Thunderbird has *experimental* maildir (actually maildir-like) support
but it is only intended to be used as Thunderbird's private mail store.
It is not intended to point to a maildir put on disk by some other program.

I emphasised "experimental" above because the maildir support in TB is
not complete and is not yet reliable in all scenarios.

So I don't think TB would be a solution to access your current maildir
structure.

Set up a local IMAP server instead? :-)

-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Jude DaShiell]

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019, Russell L. Harris wrote:

> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:04:57
> From: Russell L. Harris 
> To: Jude DaShiell 
> Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML
> Resent-Date: Tue,  5 Nov 2019 03:51:38 + (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 09:46:14PM -0500, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> >urlscan and a macro to bring urlscan up once a link got highlighted would
> >help if you still want to use mutt or neomutt.
>
> I am using urlscan.  I would be happy to forward to you one or two
> sample messages; each has a dozen links, and urlscan is not much help
> in deciding which link to select.  Sometimes I can access the links
> displayed by urlscan, but sometimes none of the links work.
>
> I am not looking for a replacement for Mutt.  I simply wish to have
> another client which is able to look at the same maildir and display
> the message.  Again, any reply I make always is in plain text, via
> Mutt.
>
> I installed Thunderbird -- what a huge truck-load of stuff!  But the
> configuration wizard would not allow me simply to point Thunderbird to
> the maildir to which getmail delivers incoming messages.
>
>
Could those urls be in different formats in those messages?
That will pose problems for some of these url grabbers.

>

--

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

On Mon, Nov 04, 2019 at 09:46:14PM -0500, Jude DaShiell wrote:

urlscan and a macro to bring urlscan up once a link got highlighted would
help if you still want to use mutt or neomutt.


I am using urlscan.  I would be happy to forward to you one or two
sample messages; each has a dozen links, and urlscan is not much help
in deciding which link to select.  Sometimes I can access the links
displayed by urlscan, but sometimes none of the links work.

I am not looking for a replacement for Mutt.  I simply wish to have
another client which is able to look at the same maildir and display
the message.  Again, any reply I make always is in plain text, via
Mutt.

I installed Thunderbird -- what a huge truck-load of stuff!  But the
configuration wizard would not allow me simply to point Thunderbird to
the maildir to which getmail delivers incoming messages.

Re: auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Jude DaShiell]

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019, Russell L. Harris wrote:

> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 18:22:58
> From: Russell L. Harris 
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: auxiliary mail client for HTML
> Resent-Date: Mon,  4 Nov 2019 23:43:57 + (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
> (or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
> seems not to be a good solution for such messages.
>
> What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
> structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
> a click?
>
> I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.
>
urlscan and a macro to bring urlscan up once a link got highlighted would
help if you still want to use mutt or neomutt.
>
>

--

auxiliary mail client for HTML

[Russell L. Harris]

Several times a week I receive a HTML email with numerous links.  Mutt
(or neoMutt, which I am using until I upgrade my Debian installation)
seems not to be a good solution for such messages.

What is a decent, simple GUI client which I can point at my maildir
structure to read such messages and be able to open on the links with
a click?

I do not require SMTP; I plan to use Mutt for any response I send.

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[gricketson]

Johann Spies wrote:

I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
pine, evolution,
thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
came back to mutt.

Regards
Johann


I also like mutt. The base mutt has become much more
valuable since I added an indexing utility, mu. I can
actually search through all my old mail now!

-- 
Joel Roth
---
I like mutt as well , and the same, I have experimeted
with many others, but none work as well as mutt.
 +100 for mutt

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Joel Roth]

Johann Spies wrote:
> I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
> pine, evolution,
> thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
> came back to mutt.
> 
> Regards
> Johann

I also like mutt. The base mutt has become much more
valuable since I added an indexing utility, mu. I can
actually search through all my old mail now!

-- 
Joel Roth
  

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)]

Hellow!

No Spam  께서 쓰시길,
 《記事 全文 <20160828210616.GC2923@jens-ThinkPad-Edge-E145> 에서》:

> Hi,
>
> So it is 12 years later;
>
> has someone found something working?

For now i use Gnus.
 by the way it is hard to recomend you.
It is not easy to handle. 
The ~/.gnus.el is changed, all the time!

Sincerely,

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Henning Follmann]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 08:35:12AM +0200, Johann Spies wrote:
> I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
> pine, evolution,
> thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
> came back to mutt.
> 

+1 for mutt 

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[John Hasler]

Stefan writes:
> ...offlineimap...

That looks like it could be useful.  Thank you.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Stefan Monnier]

> sequentially.  When you're on a metered internet connection, with only
> a five-hour unmetered window in each 24, then making maximum use of
> the unmetered window is important.

In such a situation I think you'd want to use something like leafnode
and offlineimap.


Stefan

Re: Pulling mail for local access (was Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck)

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 August 2016 07:29:16 The Wanderer wrote:

> On 2016-08-29 at 07:00, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 06:15:23AM -0400, brian wrote:
> >
> > [Gnus]
> >
> >> But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
> >> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more
> >> than one source? [...]
> >
> > TBH I never tried that, because I separate mail handling from my
> > MUA. Fetching, sorting and classifying is left to fetchmail, exim
> > and procmail, the "MUA" sees the result locally.
> >
> > Much better system behaviour when working offline.
> >
> > Didn't yet integrate news into that, since the newsgroups I am
> > interested in are disjoint from my mailboxes.
>
> I've been interested in trying to set up a system like that for some
> years, but never had occasion to make a Project out of it, and never
> found an obvious place to get started - especially for when migrating
> away from a workflow which is already based on having the mail client
> configured to contact the remote server directly. (And even more
> especially when dealing with an IMAP account, and wanting to be able
> to seamlessly affect mail on the IMAP server from the UI, which is
> provided by the mail client.)
>
> Could you go into more detail on how you have / got this set up,
> and/or point to resources which explain the process (well enough for
> someone technically savvy to be able to pick it up)?

Its not THAT hard, I've been doing it for quite a few years. I suck using 
fetchmail as a background daemon, waking up every there minutes to go 
tap the pop3 port of my ISP's mail server and pull anything new. When a 
message has been pulled, its handed off to procmail for having it run 
thru clamscan, spamassassin etc, and what survives that gets dumped into 
a mailfile in /var/spool/mail.  Then a bash script I wrote has a 
subdaemon called inotifywait, trained to watch for file closings, and 
when that mailfile has been written to and closed by the writer, it 
sends kmail a message over dbus (or dcop, depending on the system) 
telling kmail to go get the mail from that local mailbox nd sort it thru 
kmails filters and stashed in the appropriate folder. 

The net result is that the pause in everything else that kmail does, is 
only a fraction of a second, most of which is used by its making a noise 
to tell me new mail has arrived.  If kmail was doing its own fetching, 
then the keyboard is dead (the keystrokes entered are saved and 
displayed when it comes back to you, but that dead time could be a 
minute of more when someone sends you a big picture, or an openoffice 
presentation with lengthy video snippets)

With that much background automation, all I have to do is hit the plus 
key to read the next unread email, reply to it if I can, hit ctrl+return 
to send it, and + to read the next one.  Thats it, everything else is 
done for me.  Fetchmail can tap as many pop3 servers as you have access 
rights to, and I have had 3 at one time, but am down to my ISP's server 
now. It does it serially of course.

Late at night, I stop fetchmail long enough to run sa-learn against 
several folders to train spamassassin, that takes 10+ minutes, and 
fetchmail is restarted when thats been done.  Basically I am lazy, and 
bash scripts handle a lot of stuff in the background here. Repetitive 
stuff is soon turned into a script in my crontab.

Biggest PITA? The pop3 server is also an imap server, and because some 
people mix-n-match, the ISP has disabled fetchmails ability to delete a 
mail it has fetched.  So I have to log into the ^%# webmail with a 
browser and clean house, usually daily.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[John Hasler]

Brian writes:
> But will [Gnus] download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more than
> one source?

I use Leafnode to transfer news to my machine and then read it locally
with Gnus.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 August 2016 07:22:46 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday, August 28, 2016 05:06:16 PM No Spam wrote:
> > So it is 12 years later;
> >
> > has someone found something working?
>
> So, if you expect a helpful answer, you might detail the problems that
> you have with the mail clients you've tried.
>
> I've used kmail for a long time, and though it has some warts, I'm
> generally satisfied.  I use it as a pop3 client, I don't know if I'd
> have more problems as an IMAP client.  Some of my nits (or larger than
> nits):
>
>* Doesn't have the focus follows eyes (or thoughts) feature ;-)

Chuckle, now that would be handier than bottled beer.

>* Sometimes insists that folders are too big to compact

Trinitys bugfixed kmail 1.9.10 has never done that to me, and I've one 
mailbox thats never expired, a bit north of 4.3 gigs.  Its all maildir, 
and slow to enter those larger folders.

>* Typically (well, until recently) I lost the filters when I moved
> to a new machine--now I know how to deal with that

Copying kmailrc from the old machine to the new one would have sorted 
that. But duplicate the folder structure first!

>* Doesn't automatically compose (appropriate) replies

Some of mine could be called NSFW. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[John Hasler]

Brian writes:
> I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program.

So do I.  That's one of the reasons I use Gnus,
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Pulling mail for local access (was Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck)

[The Wanderer]

On 2016-08-29 at 07:00, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 06:15:23AM -0400, brian wrote:
> 
> [Gnus]
> 
>> But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and 
>> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more
>> than one source? [...]
> 
> TBH I never tried that, because I separate mail handling from my MUA.
> Fetching, sorting and classifying is left to fetchmail, exim and
> procmail, the "MUA" sees the result locally.
> 
> Much better system behaviour when working offline.
> 
> Didn't yet integrate news into that, since the newsgroups I am 
> interested in are disjoint from my mailboxes.

I've been interested in trying to set up a system like that for some
years, but never had occasion to make a Project out of it, and never
found an obvious place to get started - especially for when migrating
away from a workflow which is already based on having the mail client
configured to contact the remote server directly. (And even more
especially when dealing with an IMAP account, and wanting to be able to
seamlessly affect mail on the IMAP server from the UI, which is provided
by the mail client.)

Could you go into more detail on how you have / got this set up, and/or
point to resources which explain the process (well enough for someone
technically savvy to be able to pick it up)?

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[rhkramer]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 05:06:16 PM No Spam wrote:
> So it is 12 years later;
> 
> has someone found something working?

So, if you expect a helpful answer, you might detail the problems that you 
have with the mail clients you've tried.

I've used kmail for a long time, and though it has some warts, I'm generally 
satisfied.  I use it as a pop3 client, I don't know if I'd have more problems 
as an IMAP client.  Some of my nits (or larger than nits):

   * Doesn't have the focus follows eyes (or thoughts) feature ;-)
   * Sometimes insists that folders are too big to compact
   * Typically (well, until recently) I lost the filters when I moved to a new 
machine--now I know how to deal with that
   * Doesn't automatically compose (appropriate) replies

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 06:15:23AM -0400, brian wrote:

[Gnus]

> But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
> combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more than
> one source? [...]

TBH I never tried that, because I separate mail handling from my
MUA. Fetching, sorting and classifying is left to fetchmail, exim
and procmail, the "MUA" sees the result locally.

Much better system behaviour when working offline.

Didn't yet integrate news into that, since the newsgroups I am
interested in are disjoint from my mailboxes.

Regards
- -- t
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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tgcAn3Nz7GL4bKigBdbtlZ7FFPRWJFSS
=5+7/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[brian]

On Mon, 29 Aug 2016 11:11:51 +0200, you wrote:

>
>On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 04:59:04AM -0400, brian wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200, you wrote:
>> 
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >So it is 12 years later;
>> >
>> >has someone found something working?
>> >
>> 
>> This will be a recommendation which most likely nobody else will
>> support, but here we go...
>> 
>> I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program [...]
>
>Gnu Emacs/Gnus. Runs natively on Windows if need be (and of
>course on whatever *Linux flavours and BSDs out there).
>
>Configurable and tweakable if there was ever one.
>

But will it download from multiple newsfeeds *simultaneously*, and
combine the feeds if you subscribe to the same group from more than
one source? That's Agent's big selling point. I tried using
Thunderbird for news, and the problem was that it did each server
sequentially. When you're on a metered internet connection, with only
a five-hour unmetered window in each 24, then making maximum use of
the unmetered window is important. 

Brian. 

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 04:59:04AM -0400, brian wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200, you wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >So it is 12 years later;
> >
> >has someone found something working?
> >
> 
> This will be a recommendation which most likely nobody else will
> support, but here we go...
> 
> I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program [...]

Gnu Emacs/Gnus. Runs natively on Windows if need be (and of
course on whatever *Linux flavours and BSDs out there).

Configurable and tweakable if there was ever one.

- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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Ib8An0HJbQ+YTU+47nUz5HhL8tazmKD6
=MYHq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[brian]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>So it is 12 years later;
>
>has someone found something working?
>

This will be a recommendation which most likely nobody else will
support, but here we go...

I like having newsgroups and mail in a single program. While there's
nothing outstanding about its e-mail side, it's certainly usable, but
Forte Agent (which runs just fine on Debian via WINE) is head and
shoulders the best news client I have ever found. 

When I switched to Linux on retirement (having previously been paid to
use Windows) I did the rounds of the various mail clients. Kmail,
Claws, Thunderbird, you name it. I detest webmail, largely because,
living where I do, I have no option but satellite internet access, and
that really sucks. 

Whatever I've tried, I've always come back to Forte Agent. Yes, it's
Windows program. Yes, it's closed source, and they WON'T release the
database format. Yes, it costs money ($29 for a new registration). 

Despite all those negatives, I still regard it as the best $29 I ever
spent, and I've been using the program for almost 20 years now. 

>http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php

Usual disclaimer applies, no vested interest, just a very happy
customer. 

Brian. 

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Joe]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200
No Spam  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> So it is 12 years later;
> 
> has someone found something working?
> 

Gmail on a web browser not good enough for you?

OK, I'll vote for claws-mail as well, with the same reservation. It has
bugs. But not serious ones, and curiously the Windows port has one less
bug than the Debian package (moving to another email with 'next'
doesn't mark it as read).

In my case, I use an IMAP server, and when away from home, openvpn. For
some reason I haven't understood, the combination of claws on Windows
and openvpn doesn't allow attachments to be sent, so I drop back to
Thunderbird to do that. If I'm only using TCP and don't need local DNS,
I use ssh rather than openvpn, and claws is OK with that.

Mutt on non-GUI machines.

-- 
Joe

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 August 2016 02:55:14 deloptes wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 29 August 2016 02:16:09 deloptes wrote:
> >> Neal P. Murphy wrote:
> >> > About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that
> >> > matter) began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally
> >> > found XFCE which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.
> >>
> >> KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even
> >> better as bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the
> >> Trinity Desktop Env (TDE).
> >>
> >> regards
> >
> > And TDE is very highly recommended by Grandpa Gene.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> We should have added a link to the web site.
>
> https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
>
> regards

True, but there is always google. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[deloptes]

Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 29 August 2016 02:16:09 deloptes wrote:
> 
>> Neal P. Murphy wrote:
>> > About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter)
>> > began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE
>> > which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.
>>
>> KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even
>> better as bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the Trinity
>> Desktop Env (TDE).
>>
>> regards
> 
> And TDE is very highly recommended by Grandpa Gene.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

We should have added a link to the web site.

https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

regards

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 29 August 2016 02:16:09 deloptes wrote:

> Neal P. Murphy wrote:
> > About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter)
> > began slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE
> > which is about as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.
>
> KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even
> better as bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the Trinity
> Desktop Env (TDE).
>
> regards

And TDE is very highly recommended by Grandpa Gene.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Johann Spies]

I use mutt. From time to time I have experimented with things like kmail,
pine, evolution,
thunderbird (icedove), claws, gnus and maybe some others and every time I
came back to mutt.

Regards
Johann


-- 
Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[deloptes]

Neal P. Murphy wrote:

> About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter) began
> slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE which is about
> as simple and is as useful as KDE3 was.

KDE3 still lives and KMail is still as usable as before ... even better as
bugs are being fixed. I'm not sure if you know the Trinity Desktop Env
(TDE).

regards

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Neal P. Murphy]

On Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:06:16 +0200
No Spam  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> So it is 12 years later;
> 
> has someone found something working?
> 
> greets
> 
> J

More years ago, BeOS' email client was perfect for me. It use separate files 
and made very liberal use of BFS' equivalent of attributes to sort and organize 
messages. But BeOS development stopped. I briefly (*very* briefly) went back to 
Windows. Then discovered that Linux was ready for *my* desktop. SuSE worked for 
a while. Then I think it was etch that pulled me over to Debian. And there I 
found kmail which worked fine for me for a good number of years. It did 
everything I wanted and rarely displayed problems.

About the time of squeeze or wheezy, kmail (and KDE for that matter) began 
slipping over the edge into the abyss. I finally found XFCE which is about as 
simple and is as useful as KDE3 was. Then I started searching and trying 
various email clients. I didn't like anything. Then I found claws-mail. It 
isn't perfect; it has a quirk or three. But, by and large, it's as usable and 
stable as kmail was lo those many years ago.

But when Haiku (open source remake of BeOS) is ready for prime time, I will 
probably switch back to it. Especially since I can run most any OS I need in a 
KVM, and my 500-line KVM bash script lets me configure and fire up a VM in 
about two minutes.

So yes, I found something: claws-mail.

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[Ben Finney]

No Spam  writes:

> So it is 12 years later;

To what event are you referring? Your message's header has no standard
“In-Reply-To” field, so it apparently is not composed as a reply.

> has someone found something working?

I hope you can find an email client that correctly preserves the thread
of discussion :-)

-- 
 \   “… correct code is great, code that crashes could use |
  `\   improvement, but incorrect code that doesn’t crash is a |
_o__)horrible nightmare.” —Chris Smith, 2008-08-22 |
Ben Finney

Re: [Rant] The Endless Search for a Mail Client That Doesn't Suck

[No Spam]

Hi,

So it is 12 years later;

has someone found something working?

greets

J


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Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[pjw]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016, at 06:02 AM, German wrote:
> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.

ProfiMail Go
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lonelycatgames.PM&hl=en

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Siard]

li...@rickv.com:
> Siard:
> > I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
> > Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
> > That's why I go for Kaiten.
> 
> Glad you said that -- I don't like the dog either. I don't get the
> reference, so Kaiten's postbox makes more sense. 
> 
> I bought Kaiten too, but after it stopped getting updates and
> support, I switched back to K-9. You know in a lot of ROMs and I
> think even launchers, you can change an app's icon? That's what I do;
> install both apps; change K-9's app icon to use Kaiten's icon;
> uninstall Kaiten but keep the icon with K-9. 100% cosmetic stupidity,
> but it makes me slightly happier.

I have replaced the Google Now launcher with the Apex launcher (main
reason: to get rid of the Google search bar) and indeed, on the desktop
at least, I can change an app's logo to any other logo.
I have an icon pack installed ('Glasklart' in this case) and took some
universal e-mail logo from there.

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Peter Ludikovsky]

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-9_%28Doctor_Who%29

Am 12.04.2016 um 02:40 schrieb li...@rickv.com:
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 04:44:50PM +0200, Siard wrote:
>> Byung-Hee HWANG:
>> I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
>> Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
>> That's why I go for Kaiten.
> 
> Glad you said that -- I don't like the dog either. I don't get the
> reference, so Kaiten's postbox makes more sense.
> I bought Kaiten too, but after it stopped getting updates and support, I
> switched back to K-9. You know in a lot of ROMs and I think even
> launchers, you can change an app's icon? That's what I do; install both
> apps; change K-9's app icon to use Kaiten's icon; uninstall Kaiten but
> keep the icon with K-9. 100% cosmetic stupidity, but it makes me
> slightly happier.
> 



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Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Keith Bainbridge]

On 12 Apr 2016, Willy MANGA  wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Le 11/04/2016 13:02, German a écrit :
>> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.
>
>K9-mail from https://f-droid.org/ ;)

Good morning

I been using K@ for a few months.  Works well for day to day stuff

I'm still looking for an app that includes only highlighted text from the 
original in the reply, though. I figure redirect won't pass Google's 
'ethics'process, as they state publicly that they believe the process is a 
security risk. I disagree. 
Keith Bainbridge

0447 667 468 

keithrbaugro...@gmail.com 

Sent from my APad 

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[lists]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:49:41AM -0400, shawn wilson wrote:

Y'all know you can buy kaiten mail and support the dev, right?

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Byung-Hee HWANG (?)
 wrote:

On 2016??? 4??? 11??? ?? 9??? 8??? 6??? GMT+09:00, Hans 
 wrote:

Am Montag, 11. April 2016, 08:02:13 schrieb German:

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.


Except, the dev(s) has not updated since about May 2014, nor does
he/she/they respond to emails about it. Meanwhile, K-9 gets regular
updates.

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[lists]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 04:44:50PM +0200, Siard wrote:

Byung-Hee HWANG:
I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
That's why I go for Kaiten.


Glad you said that -- I don't like the dog either. I don't get the
reference, so Kaiten's postbox makes more sense. 


I bought Kaiten too, but after it stopped getting updates and support, I
switched back to K-9. You know in a lot of ROMs and I think even
launchers, you can change an app's icon? That's what I do; install both
apps; change K-9's app icon to use Kaiten's icon; uninstall Kaiten but
keep the icon with K-9. 100% cosmetic stupidity, but it makes me
slightly happier.

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Willy MANGA]

Hi,

Le 11/04/2016 13:02, German a écrit :
> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.

K9-mail from https://f-droid.org/ ;)

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[ken]

On 04/11/2016 08:08 AM, Hans wrote:

Am Montag, 11. April 2016, 08:02:13 schrieb German:

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.

Thanks

K9-Mail


+1

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Jochen Spieker]

David Baron:
> 
> Microsoft's Outlook (not the Windows Outlook or Express!) is a decent 
> lightweight contender and integrates calendar and contacts functions as well. 

If you are talking about the app¹ you should know that it routes your
e-mails and access credentials through its own servers. See their
privacy policy:

https://www.acompli.com/privacy-policy/

J.

¹ 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.office.outlook&hl=en
-- 
My medicine shelf is my altar.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 11/04/2016 10:02 PM, German wrote:
> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.

I like K9, just wish it has one more feature when I delete messages,
I would prefer them to be shown with a strike through and then I could
either /really/ delete them or I could simply undelete them.  As it is
now, if I delete a message, it is marked for deletion, but K9 won't ever
see it again -- I have to use Thunderbird on the desktop to undelete any
messages.

KaiMail -- I couldn't stand the idea of their free version adding bad
tags and the pay for version is too expensive.  K9 for me, probably
forever, even if I can't have delete/undelete function as I would like.

Cheers
AndrewM



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Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[John L. Ries]

Actually, I rather like the logo.  It does have the advantage of being 
instantly recognizable.


--|
John L. Ries  |
Salford Systems   |
Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 |
or (435)867-8885  |
--|


On Mon, 11 Apr 2016, Siard wrote:


Byung-Hee HWANG:

Hans:

German:

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.


K9-Mail


Me too, i use now k-9 with google apps.


I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
That's why I go for Kaiten.

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Siard]

Michael:
> Siard:
> > I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
> > Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
> > That's why I go for Kaiten.
> 
> Its The Doctors faithful companion K9!

Ah, a robot dog in some sci-fi TV-series. I see.

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Michael]

On Mon, 2016-04-11 at 16:44 +0200, Siard wrote:
> 
> I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
> Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
> That's why I go for Kaiten.
> 

Its The Doctors faithful companion K9!

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Siard]

Byung-Hee HWANG:
> Hans:
> > German:
> > > I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.
> >
> > K9-Mail
> 
> Me too, i use now k-9 with google apps.

I really hate K9-Mail's logo.
Looks like a severely battered blind dog.
That's why I go for Kaiten.

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[David Baron]

K9 and the forks and family are oldies and goodies. They are showing their 
age, but still, one cannot go wrong with them.

GMail and Inbox are resource hogs (along with most gapps).

Microsoft's Outlook (not the Windows Outlook or Express!) is a decent 
lightweight contender and integrates calendar and contacts functions as well. 
This program is an acquisition. Its calendar functions will be incorporating 
those of another of their acquisitions, Sunrise calendar, which was one of the 
best.
(Note that it plays very well with GMail accounts but it never read my own 
IMAP server through which I ran my pop3 accounts. I run the old pop3 stuff 
through GMail now so this works out just fine. Do not need the GMail app to do 
this--set it up on the site.)

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[shawn wilson]

Y'all know you can buy kaiten mail and support the dev, right?

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희)
 wrote:
> On 2016년 4월 11일 오후 9시 8분 6초 GMT+09:00, Hans  wrote:
>>Am Montag, 11. April 2016, 08:02:13 schrieb German:
>>> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>K9-Mail
>
> Me too, i use now k-9 with google apps.
> Also i like very much Emacs' Gnus!
>

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[cbannister]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:12:45PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:02:13AM -0400, German wrote:
> >I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.
> 
> I use K-@ Mail [1] which, as far as I understand, is a Material redesign of
> Kaiten Mail which, in turn, is a fork of K-9 Mail.
> 
> I've not gone back to see how K-9 Mail is faring these days, but any of
> these three should provide good, solid mail clients.

I wonder why there is a disclaimer like "please excuse this mail - sent
from phone or tablet" at the end of each mail.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Sébastien Gautrin]

On 11/04/16 14:12, Darac Marjal wrote:

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:02:13AM -0400, German wrote:

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.


I use K-@ Mail [1] which, as far as I understand, is a Material 
redesign of Kaiten Mail which, in turn, is a fork of K-9 Mail.


I've not gone back to see how K-9 Mail is faring these days, but any 
of these three should provide good, solid mail clients.



[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.free



Thanks



Kaiten Mail like K-@ Mail seem both to be *closed source* forks 
(possible as K-9 is under APL 2.0) of K-9 (which is available through 
f-droid by the way). For this alone I'd imagine it would not be 
something most Debian users would want to support. At least I could not 
find any reference to the source (and no official mention of K-@ Mail 
being actually a fork of K-9, unlike Kaiten which advertises it).

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[cbannister]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:02:13AM -0400, German wrote:
> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.

What Debian version are you using on your tablet?

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Darac Marjal]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:02:13AM -0400, German wrote:

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.


I use K-@ Mail [1] which, as far as I understand, is a Material redesign 
of Kaiten Mail which, in turn, is a fork of K-9 Mail.


I've not gone back to see how K-9 Mail is faring these days, but any of 
these three should provide good, solid mail clients.



[1] 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onegravity.k10.free




Thanks



--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Ron Leach]

On 11/04/2016 13:02, German wrote:

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.



K-9, here; using IMAP to reach Dovecot on Debian.

Took a little setting up to limit the display of mailbox folders to 
only those I want/need to use on the phone/tablet.  Solid performance, 
though.


Ron

Re: [ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[Hans]

Am Montag, 11. April 2016, 08:02:13 schrieb German:
> I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.
> 
> Thanks

K9-Mail

[ A little off topic] Best e-mail client for Android

[German]

I wonder what Debian users use on their phone/tablet.

Thanks

Re: About new mail client

[Adam Wilson]

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:41:22 +0100
Jonas Hedman  wrote:

> On 15-12-18 11:12:29, Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras wrote:
> > My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I
> > think with enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption
> > and sign messages . any suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed
> > or claws .which one you suggest me ? -- Sent from my Android device
> > with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > 
> 
> What about som textbased client like mutt or alpine?

He appears to be searching for a graphical client of some sort, hence
the suggestions. Text-based clients are not to the preference of all,
especially those used to graphical clients.

As you can no doubt see from my User-Agent header, I use Claws. It is
relatively lightweight, and very easy to configure.

Claws and Sylpheed are almost identical- Claws is just more popular,
has a larger community, and some nice user interface tweaks.

I recommend Claws. It Bites!

Re: About new mail client

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 1/20/16, Darac Marjal  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 08:05:07PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
>>On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:51:53AM +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:
>>> On 21/12/15 23:59, Chris Bannister wrote:
>>> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>>Umm, I didn't write that. (You went overboard with your snipping.)
>
> From what I can see, you did. Note that the line is double-quoted. The
> line under, which you wrote is single-quoted, but the "Sent from..."
> line WAS there in your email, quoted from the OP. Stuart was simply
> quoting your quote.


Out of curiosity, I just went dumpster diving in my email's trash
bucket. It is in fact from an email by Chris. Chris quoted a previous
post by someone else before then responding to it. Chris did not
originate the "Android" line.

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* words #fail me. *

Re: About new mail client

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 08:05:07PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:51:53AM +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:

On 21/12/15 23:59, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


Umm, I didn't write that. (You went overboard with your snipping.)


From what I can see, you did. Note that the line is double-quoted. The 
line under, which you wrote is single-quoted, but the "Sent from..." 
line WAS there in your email, quoted from the OP. Stuart was simply 
quoting your quote.





> Sent using mutt from my laptop!

Oddly enough, I've found mutt running on my server from my phone using
ConnectBot (for SSH) vastly superior to K-9 Mail (and the stock Android
client) in a number of ways.


--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X



--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: About new mail client

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:51:53AM +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:
> On 21/12/15 23:59, Chris Bannister wrote:
> >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Umm, I didn't write that. (You went overboard with your snipping.)

> > Sent using mutt from my laptop!
> 
> Oddly enough, I've found mutt running on my server from my phone using
> ConnectBot (for SSH) vastly superior to K-9 Mail (and the stock Android
> client) in a number of ways.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: About new mail client

[Stuart Longland]

On 21/12/15 23:59, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> Sent using mutt from my laptop!

Oddly enough, I've found mutt running on my server from my phone using
ConnectBot (for SSH) vastly superior to K-9 Mail (and the stock Android
client) in a number of ways.

The two downsides being a lack of incoming mail notification and
attachment handling being a pain.

Other than that, I find sending a quick email or replying to be easier.
-- 
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)

I haven't lost my mind...
  ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.



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Re: About new mail client

[Dan Ritter]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 11:11:33AM -0500, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2016, Jonas Hedman wrote:
> 
> >Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:41:22
> >From: Jonas Hedman 
> >To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >Subject: Re: About new mail client
> >
> >On 15-12-18 11:12:29, Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras wrote:
> >>My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I think 
> >>with enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption and sign 
> >>messages . any suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed or claws .which 
> >>one you suggest me ?
> >>--
> >>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >>
> >
> >What about som textbased client like mutt or alpine?
> >
> Another possibility along these lines would be nmh.  The thing I like
> about nmh is it doesn't store messages in mbox format files.  Each
> message lives in its own file.  This might seem trivial to many until
> clamav quarrantines your entire mbox file because it found a virus in
> a single message.  I had that happen to me once and lost over 600
> other messages that way.  It's necessary to use the inc command
> inside nmh to pull messages off the mail spool file into nmh and once
> this is done, the mail spool file is expendible.  Clamav runs on a
> machine set up this way it only quarrantines the specific messages
> with the viruses in them and leaves the rest tested and unmolested so
> you can read them later.  Of course nmh is made up of several
> commands so it takes a little more to learn to use it but with use
> you're not stuck in one mail client program.
> 

This is similar to the (now more widely supported) maildir
format, which has the added benefits of being safe for use over
NFS and stranger remote filesystems, with multiple concurrent
access.

Maildir is supported by many packages, including Postfix, qmail,
Exim, procmail, mutt, Thunderbird, etc and so forth and so on.

-dsr-

Re: About new mail client

[Jude DaShiell]

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016, Jonas Hedman wrote:


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:41:22
From: Jonas Hedman 
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: About new mail client

On 15-12-18 11:12:29, Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras wrote:

My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I think with 
enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption and sign messages . any 
suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed or claws .which one you suggest me ?
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.



What about som textbased client like mutt or alpine?

Another possibility along these lines would be nmh.  The thing I like 
about nmh is it doesn't store messages in mbox format files.  Each 
message lives in its own file.  This might seem trivial to many until 
clamav quarrantines your entire mbox file because it found a virus in a 
single message.  I had that happen to me once and lost over 600 other 
messages that way.  It's necessary to use the inc command inside nmh to 
pull messages off the mail spool file into nmh and once this is done, the 
mail spool file is expendible.  Clamav runs on a machine set up this way 
it only quarrantines the specific messages with the viruses in them and 
leaves the rest tested and unmolested so you can read them later.  Of 
course nmh is made up of several commands so it takes a little more to 
learn to use it but with use you're not stuck in one mail client program.




>


--

Re: About new mail client

[Jonas Hedman]

On 15-12-18 11:12:29, Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras wrote:
> My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I think 
> with enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption and sign messages 
> . any suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed or claws .which one you 
> suggest me ?
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 

What about som textbased client like mutt or alpine?



-- 
Jonas Hedman 

XMPP:n...@jabber.at
PGP Key: 0x5c3989e0616bb08c
Fingerprint: 8F72 C5BE AAFA B4BA 8F46  9185 5C39 89E0 616B B08C


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: About new mail client

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:12:29AM +0200, Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras
wrote:
> 
> My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I
> think with enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption and
> sign messages . any suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed or
> claws .which one you suggest me ?

You may want to consider mutt, it integrates with PGP, and doesn't
append emails with gibberish.

> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Sent using mutt from my laptop!

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: About new mail client

[Joe]

On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:12:29 +0200
Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I
> think with enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption and
> sign messages . any suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed or
> claws .which one you suggest me ?
>

I think you will need to try both. Icedove is the horrible beast that
it is because it does everything, there will be various features
missing from the others, and the two of them separated quite a few
years ago now.

I have used claws for several years, but I don't do anything exotic
with it, just usenet and local IMAP. It is a little buggy, but at the
moment, nothing important to me is broken.

-- 
Joe

About new mail client

[Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

My branch is sid and used to use icedove as default mail client . I think with 
enigmail is kinda broken and I can't use as encryption and sign messages . any 
suggestions ? I am thinking about sylpheed or claws .which one you suggest me ?
- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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[SOLVED] Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

the trick is to go to the configuration item "Customized Headers"
and to add a customized "From:" header. Like
  From: Full Name 

One can gets this instruction by pressing the help key "?"
on the item "User Domain" and following the "here" link
in the third paragraph.

By setting my GMX mail address there, i get alpine to send
"MAIL FROM:" with this addrss and gmx.net does not reject
this SMTP command any more.

I am using this setting with Debian's alpine-2.11 binary
and for now drop the use of my patched alpine-2.20.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

by hardcoding my GMX mail address in
alpine-2.20/imap/src/c-client/smtp.c, i was able to prove that
my workstation hostname in the "MAIL FROM:" argument is indeed
the stumblestone which prevented SMTP success with gmx.net.

Whew.

Now i need to find out how to regularly configure the components
of env->return_path to the values which yield success.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Nicolas George wrote:
> Do try strace, and if
> you know a bit of SMTP, which seems the case, you should be able to spot the
> problem in a few minutes.

It's nearly too late in the evening. But (with alpine 2.20 from
source):

  read(9, "220 gmx.com (mrgmx102) Nemesis E"..., 8192) = 52

  write(9, "EHLO localhost\r\n", 16)  = 16

  read(9, "250-gmx.com Hello localhost [79."..., 8192) = 86

  write(9, "AUTH PLAIN\r\n", 12)  = 12

  read(9, "334 \r\n", 8192)   = 6

  write(9, "...for.my.eyes.only...", ...) = ...

  read(9, "235 Authentication succeeded\r\n", 8192) = 30

  write(9, "MAIL FROM:<...my_id...@...my.local.hostname...>"..., ...) = ...

Oh yes. That's wrong. It must be  ...my_id...@gmx.net.
Consequential Nemesis rejects:

  read(9, "550-Requested action not taken: "..., 8192) = 89

But alpine happily goes on with

  write(9, "RCPT TO:<...some_id...@gmx.net>\r\n", ...) = ...

which earns it

  read(9, "503 Bad sequence of commands\r\n", 8192) = 30


Ok. About 20 minutes including reading man strace.
Catch of the day. Congrats to Nicolas George !


It's really too late now. But i change alpine configuration
from:
  User Domain   = 
to:
  User Domain   = gmx.net   
  
... naw. Does not help. At least not now.

I have something to dig for in the source. Tomorrow.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Nicolas George]

Le nonidi 9 thermidor, an CCXXIII, Thomas Schmitt a écrit :
> > strace can tell you that and much more, especially if the encryption is done
> > by a separate program.
> Whatever, the ports and encryption are ok. It's alpine's
> way of speaking ESMTP and/or Nemesis' unfilfilled ESMTP
> expectations which cause an error 503.

That is exactly the reason I wrote "and much more". Do try strace, and if
you know a bit of SMTP, which seems the case, you should be able to spot the
problem in a few minutes.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

David Wright a écrit :
> > It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
> > use.

Nicolas George:
> strace can tell you that and much more, especially if the encryption is done
> by a separate program.

I do know the port number if stunnel is involved.

Whatever, the ports and encryption are ok. It's alpine's
way of speaking ESMTP and/or Nemesis' unfilfilled ESMTP
expectations which cause an error 503. I'm quite sure.
(David Wright seems convinced too, after we sorted out
 the line delimiter problem with openssl s_client.)

After installing libssl-dev and libpam-dev i now get
through ./configure && make of alpine 2.20.
Must go on READMEing what's next.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[David Wright]

Quoting Thomas Schmitt (scdbac...@gmx.net):

> > Were I a user of mail.gmx.net, I would ask them.
> 
> Futile. They'd want me to use the web interface with lots
> of advertising.

Oh dear. Well, could you attack the problem the other way round and
connect alpine to exim, say, on your own machine. Unfortunately you'll
have to do some configuring first, to open up ports on localhost.

Alternatively, it might be easier to build alpine from source with the
debug flag. I'm guessing that's why you downloaded alpine-2.20.tar.xz.

> Nemesis obviously does not properly get to see your texts.
> man 1 s_client says "any key presses will be sent to the server".
> This might not be what a SMTP server expects. RFC 821 prescibes
> "" as line end mark.

Mea culpa. mail.gmx.net is very persnickety!

> Try again with option -crlf
> 
>   openssl s_client -crlf -connect mail.gmx.net:465
> 
> It brings me to
> 
>   220 gmx.com (mrgmx102) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
>   EHLO junk
>   250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
>   250-SIZE 69920427
>   250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN

Agreed. Of course, I can go no further.

Cheers,
David.


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Nicolas George]

Le nonidi 9 thermidor, an CCXXIII, David Wright a écrit :
> OK. It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
> use.

strace can tell you that and much more, especially if the encryption is done
by a separate program.

Regards,

-- 
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Description: Digital signature

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

> OK. It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
> use.

It did connect with explicitely setting port 587 for "/tls/".

But i bet that neither port nor encryption protocol is the
problem. If not alpine mimicks a SMTP error 503 then the
connection is good enough to transmit this server error
message to the alpine client.


> So AIUI alpine is sending and receiving plaintext and your stunnel
> does the encryption. And this stopped working 2015 mid-June.

Yes. By some change in the "Nemesis" server, i guess.


> I don't know whether the fact that it hangs is something that started
> happening in mid-June (for everyone).

It only hangs for the openssl run which we both tried.
It does not hang for stunnel or for alpine.

It might be that different mail accounts are dispatched
to different servers. Now mine got updated.


> Were I a user of mail.gmx.net, I would ask them.

Futile. They'd want me to use the web interface with lots
of advertising.


> so case is sensitive. I can't reconcile it with rfc5321.

Nemesis obviously does not properly get to see your texts.
man 1 s_client says "any key presses will be sent to the server".
This might not be what a SMTP server expects. RFC 821 prescibes
"" as line end mark.
Further i read in man s_client:
"if the line begins with a Q or if end of file is reached,
 the connection will be closed down".
So not SMTP did react on QUIT, but openssl s_client did react
on Q.

Try again with option -crlf

  openssl s_client -crlf -connect mail.gmx.net:465

It brings me to

  220 gmx.com (mrgmx102) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
  EHLO junk
  250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
  250-SIZE 69920427
  250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN


> I don't get the results that your stunnel (which I know nothing
> about) is providing above.

It's not my stunnel. Nevertheless very handy.
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/stunnel4


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[David Wright]

Quoting Thomas Schmitt (scdbac...@gmx.net):
> David Wright wrote:
> 
> > > I can direct alpine unencrypted to port 30029 and see the same
> > > effect as with alpine's own encryption via "/ssl/" or "/tls/".
> 
> > I'm sorry if I appear to be thick but I get very little sense from
> > "see the same effect as with alpine's own encryption". I can't be
> > certain what works and what fails when you express it like that.
> 
> All three variations of alpine SMTP configuration which i tried
> do not work:
> 
>  smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/ssl/user=my_user...@gmx.net
>  smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/tls/user=my_user...@gmx.net

OK. It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
use. I've always found it pays to specify them explicitly and,
when things don't work (like in a motel), try other alternatives.
25, 465, 785, 2525, 25025 etc.

>  smtp-server=localhost:30029/user=my_user...@gmx.net
> 
> The third one is using a stunnel process at port 30029 which
> encrypts the communication and forwards it to and from
> port 465 of mail.gmx.net.

So AIUI alpine is sending and receiving plaintext and your stunnel
does the encryption. And this stopped working 2015 mid-June.
Not having tried mail.gmx.net:465 myself before a few hours ago, I
don't know whether the fact that it hangs is something that started
happening in mid-June (for everyone). Were I a user of mail.gmx.net,
I would ask them.

> The effect is that i see indications of a beginning (E)SMTP
> dialog up to the prompt for a password. But the attempt to
> hand over the mail fails with alpine displaying the message
> "Bad sequence of commands". I assume it stems from the server.
> 
> > 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> 
> This is what i assume to be triggering the alpine passowrd
> prompt. So i believe that alpine gets that far with the
> server.
> 
> 
> > I can't start 587 as an encrypted connection: [...]
> > which appears normal. However, 465 seems to behave oddly:
> 
> I understand 587 is for encryption being started inside
> the ESMTP dialog. There is a STARTTLS command:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STARTTLS
> 
> Port 465 is used by GMX for ESMTP which begins already encrypted.
> 
> 
> > $ openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
> > ...
> > 220 gmx.com (mrgmx001) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
> > ehlo junk
> > ^C as it hung.
> > I would have expected a reply here, or to be thrown off.
> 
> Must be something about the openssl run.
> I can reproduce it here but am too lazy to explore :))

Well I tried again from another machine and managed to provoke some
life into it, but the responses weren't what I expected. Only two
commands did anything:

it: 220 gmx.com (mrgmx101) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
me: noop
me: NOOP
me: quit
me: QUIT
it: DONE
$

and

it: 220 gmx.com (mrgmx101) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
me: rset
me: RSET
it: RENEGOTIATING
it: 3073837208:error:14094153:SSL routines:SSL3_READ_BYTES:no 
renegotiation:s3_pkt.c:1247:
$

so case is sensitive. I can't reconcile it with rfc5321.

> Trying telnet via stunnel:
> 
>   $ telnet localhost 30029
>   Trying ::1...
>   Trying 127.0.0.1...
>   Connected to localhost.
>   Escape character is '^]'.
>   220 gmx.com (mrgmx003) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
>   ehlo junk
>   250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
>   250-SIZE 69920427
>   250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> 
> My own SMTP client does this dialog via stunnel:
> 
>   < 220 gmx.com (mrgmx103) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
>   > EHLO scdbackup.webframe.org
>   < 250-gmx.com Hello scdbackup.webframe.org [79.192.75.113]
>   < 250-SIZE 69920427
>   < 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
>   > MAIL FROM:
>   < 530 Authentication required
>   > AUTH PLAIN
>   < 334 
>   > (secret text)
>   < 235 Authentication succeeded
>   > MAIL FROM:
>   < 250 Requested mail action okay, completed
>   ...
> 
> and sucessfully delivers the mail.

Fair enough. I don't wait for 530 but authenticate straight away,
and ditto 334. But I can't get any response from ehlo or EHLO,
so I give up.

To summarise, I don't use alpine myself, you can't show any logs, and
the server doesn't behave the same for you and me. Or, at least,
I've used   openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
and I don't get the results that your stunnel (which I know nothing
about) is providing above.

> Just that my troubles did not start in october 2014 but
> not before mid june of 2015. Up to then, the alpine of
> my Debian 6 machine could send mail via stunnel and the
> Nemesis of GMX.
> A few days before i got my new Debian 8.1 machine, alpine
> on Debian 6 stopped working. On the new machine it never
> worked.
> 
> I downloaded alpine-2.20.tar.xz now, the newest version i
> could find. It might last a while until i get some insight.

Cheers,
David.


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Bob Bernstein wrote:
> I suggest you join the alpine discussion list.
> https://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

Will ask there after i managed to get version 2.20 running
from source tarball. (Or after i encountered a showstopper.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

David Wright wrote:

> > I can direct alpine unencrypted to port 30029 and see the same
> > effect as with alpine's own encryption via "/ssl/" or "/tls/".

> I'm sorry if I appear to be thick but I get very little sense from
> "see the same effect as with alpine's own encryption". I can't be
> certain what works and what fails when you express it like that.

All three variations of alpine SMTP configuration which i tried
do not work:

 smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/ssl/user=my_user...@gmx.net
 smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/tls/user=my_user...@gmx.net
 smtp-server=localhost:30029/user=my_user...@gmx.net

The third one is using a stunnel process at port 30029 which
encrypts the communication and forwards it to and from
port 465 of mail.gmx.net.

The effect is that i see indications of a beginning (E)SMTP
dialog up to the prompt for a password. But the attempt to
hand over the mail fails with alpine displaying the message
"Bad sequence of commands". I assume it stems from the server.


> 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN

This is what i assume to be triggering the alpine passowrd
prompt. So i believe that alpine gets that far with the
server.


> I can't start 587 as an encrypted connection: [...]
> which appears normal. However, 465 seems to behave oddly:

I understand 587 is for encryption being started inside
the ESMTP dialog. There is a STARTTLS command:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STARTTLS

Port 465 is used by GMX for ESMTP which begins already encrypted.


> $ openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
> ...
> 220 gmx.com (mrgmx001) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
> ehlo junk
> ^C as it hung.
> I would have expected a reply here, or to be thrown off.

Must be something about the openssl run.
I can reproduce it here but am too lazy to explore :))

Trying telnet via stunnel:

  $ telnet localhost 30029
  Trying ::1...
  Trying 127.0.0.1...
  Connected to localhost.
  Escape character is '^]'.
  220 gmx.com (mrgmx003) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
  ehlo junk
  250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
  250-SIZE 69920427
  250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN

My own SMTP client does this dialog via stunnel:

  < 220 gmx.com (mrgmx103) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
  > EHLO scdbackup.webframe.org
  < 250-gmx.com Hello scdbackup.webframe.org [79.192.75.113]
  < 250-SIZE 69920427
  < 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
  > MAIL FROM:
  < 530 Authentication required
  > AUTH PLAIN
  < 334 
  > (secret text)
  < 235 Authentication succeeded
  > MAIL FROM:
  < 250 Requested mail action okay, completed
  ...

and sucessfully delivers the mail.


> > Certificate problems look different.
> > I can tell from running an 8 year old system in today's internet.

> If you say so. I don't know how to interpret
> verify error:num=19:self signed certificate in certificate chain
> above.

It did not prevent the connection and it is not what alpine
is reporting to me. I see the cleartext of SMTP error 503.

About the certification problems of openssl in particular
i found:
http://documentation.microfocus.com/help/topic/com.microfocus.eclipse.infocenter.edtest/HHSTSTCERT06.html
I understand one has to declare the self-signed certificates
to be trusted in order to silence the message. But how could
a user judge trustworthiness of a certificate ?


> BTW I assume the same problem as yours is reported at
> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/networking/203061-alpine-setup-ok-unable-send-email.html

Yes. This is what i experience.

Just that my troubles did not start in october 2014 but
not before mid june of 2015. Up to then, the alpine of
my Debian 6 machine could send mail via stunnel and the
Nemesis of GMX.
A few days before i got my new Debian 8.1 machine, alpine
on Debian 6 stopped working. On the new machine it never
worked.


I downloaded alpine-2.20.tar.xz now, the newest version i
could find. It might last a while until i get some insight.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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