Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/13 08:32, Jean-Marc wrote: Like PailNM said, not implemented in Microsoft O/S. How come, everyone is thinking so? Of course, it's implemented. regards, chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a968b2.7010...@groessler.org
Re: Maximum RAM
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 18:49 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 12/12/13 18:24, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Ethan, still HTML, really ;)? On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 01:42 -0500, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? Only when you compile a 32-bit architecture kernel, then you can enable it by echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set .config echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G=y .config make oldconfig Regards, Ralf Huh? :/ Which distro ships a pae kernel with highmem64G *disabled* in the default .config? I don't know? He was asking for CLI statements and those above are the statements, if you download the vanilla kernel source from kernel.org and build a 32-bit kernel, for e.g. Debian. Yes, there are other CLI statements too. Why do so many people, with 64-bit architecture prefer 32-bit operating systems? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386836688.1257.212.camel@archlinux
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/2013 02:49 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Which distro ships a pae kernel with highmem64G *disabled* in the default .config? I can confirm both kernels on my up-to-date Debian Wheezy 32-bit install have it enabled. linux-image-3.2.0-4-486 linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae I'm pretty sure the only sensible case to disabling it would be in embedded installs where every kilobyte matters. -PaulNM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a972d7.6050...@paulscrap.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/2013 02:41 AM, Christian Groessler wrote: On 12/12/13 08:32, Jean-Marc wrote: Like PailNM said, not implemented in Microsoft O/S. How come, everyone is thinking so? Of course, it's implemented. regards, chris Check this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx It's also thoroughly documented elsewhere. as well. All Microsoft 32-bit consumer OS's are limited to 4GB RAM, if not less. Some of their 32-bit server OS's are also limited to 4GB, though some can go higher depending on the license. -PaulNM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a973ff.5030...@paulscrap.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 03:29 -0500, PaulNM wrote: All Microsoft 32-bit consumer OS's are limited to 4GB RAM, if not less. IIRC 3.75 GiB, we already made the mistake and used the term GB instead of GiB ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386837392.1257.214.camel@archlinux
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/13 19:24, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 18:49 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 12/12/13 18:24, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Ethan, still HTML, really ;)? On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 01:42 -0500, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? Only when you compile a 32-bit architecture kernel, then you can enable it by echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set .config echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G=y .config make oldconfig Regards, Ralf Huh? :/ Which distro ships a pae kernel with highmem64G *disabled* in the default .config? I don't know? He was asking for CLI statements and those above are the statements, if you download the vanilla kernel source from kernel.org and build a 32-bit kernel, for e.g. Debian. Bit of a fanciful context given the original question. First you have to assume the OP is talking about compiling, then you have to pull from vanilla, and even then you need to *disable* the default in order to later enable it - all to justify a convoluted answer to Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? 10 points for creativity? Why do so many people, with 64-bit architecture prefer 32-bit operating systems? Perhaps because 64-bit gives their use case brings disadvantage but no advantages? Perhaps for other reasons. To assume that you *should* use 64-bit in all cases is incorrect. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a976fc.9060...@gmail.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 19:42 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: I wrote: Why do so many people, with 64-bit architecture prefer 32-bit operating systems? Perhaps because 64-bit gives their use case brings disadvantage but no advantages? Perhaps for other reasons. To assume that you *should* use 64-bit in all cases is incorrect. Rumours about disadvantages or are there real drawbacks for some use cases? The Windows crew? I love Linux, but want to run Windows VSTs and something like this? I've got doubts that there are valid reasons to prefer 32-bit over 64-bit in 2013/2014, assumed the hardware does allow 64-bit. _Replies only to d-community-offtopic, TIA_ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386838589.1257.220.camel@archlinux
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/2013 03:36 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 03:29 -0500, PaulNM wrote: All Microsoft 32-bit consumer OS's are limited to 4GB RAM, if not less. IIRC 3.75 GiB, we already made the mistake and used the term GB instead of GiB ;). Well. Whether GB instead of GiB is a mistake or not depends on your point of view, of course. :) -PaulNM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a97801.6000...@paulscrap.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/2013 2:42 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: Perhaps because 64-bit gives their use case brings disadvantage but no advantages? Perhaps for other reasons. To assume that you *should* use 64-bit in all cases is incorrect. There are old 32 bit PAE only machines around with plenty of capability today, albeit with a lot more space and power consumption for the performance. Take the Unisys ES7000 Orion 230 for example. It's a 32 processor Foster Xeon 72 mainframe, 32 bit PAE only CPUs. Original price when new in 2001 was ~$300,000 USD. Today? A few thousand, if you could find a complete working unit at a surplus equipment dealer or on Ebay. CPU count: 32 CPU type: Intel Xeon MP Foster, first gen NetBurst Specs: 1.4-1.6 GHz, 256KB L2, 1MB L3 System cache: 256MB static RAM, 32MB per 4 CPU module, 8 modules System RAM: 64GB ECC SDRAM, 128x 512 MB DIMMs, 32-way interleaved RAM bandwidth: 20 GB/s sustained, 25.6 GB/s peak IO Slots: 64 PCI 2.1 66 MHz 32 PCI 2.1 33 MHz IO Bandwidth: 5 GB/s sustained There are a number of workloads at which this 13 year old PAE only system would offer excellent performance today. It would make one heckuva server for web, mail, database, etc. It would have decent SETI or Folding throughput though individual work unit processing would be pretty slow compared to today's CPUs. You'd be hard pressed to find a 32 bit PCI FC400/800 or SAS controller, but Intel still sells a PCI GbE card. This allows for MPIO iSCSI over multiple HBAs and GbE links to modern iSCSI SAN RAID arrays. Say 16 HBAs, 4 links to each of 4 arrays with 24x 2.5 SAS drives, 96 drives total, 3.2 GB/s throughput. This is obviously an obscure and unlikely scenario, but it is a good example of why one would choose to run a PAE kernel. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a9a5c3.2090...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/2013 03:24 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 18:49 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 12/12/13 18:24, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Ethan, still HTML, really ;)? On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 01:42 -0500, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? Only when you compile a 32-bit architecture kernel, then you can enable it by echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set .config echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G=y .config make oldconfig Regards, Ralf Huh? :/ Which distro ships a pae kernel with highmem64G *disabled* in the default .config? I don't know? He was asking for CLI statements and those above are the statements, if you download the vanilla kernel source from kernel.org and build a 32-bit kernel, for e.g. Debian. Yes, there are other CLI statements too. Why do so many people, with 64-bit architecture prefer 32-bit operating systems? Maybe it's because some software is not available for 64-bit systems, and the devs won't provide what I think is called multi-arch so that 32-bit programs run on the 64-bit system. It's a trade-off--you can have a distro that supports 32-bit apps on a 64-bit system, but then you have to put up with all the BS that that distro imposes on you. --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a9e6d0.40...@optonline.net
Re: Maximum RAM
PaulNM grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On 12/12/2013 02:11 AM, David Guntner wrote: Scott Ferguson grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On 12/12/13 17:42, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Dear List - I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? 64GB Really? As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. What am I missing here? You're missing that it's a complete fallacy. Pretty much any processor from the Pentium Pro and up support PAE, and thus 64GB of RAM. Microsoft decided not to support that on the 32-bit versions of their consumer operating systems, but there's no technical reason preventing a 32-bit OS from using more than 4GB. (I mention MS because that's where most people I talk to get this idea from.) Provided the motherboard supports it, that is. :) Gotcha. :-) Ah, ok. While, yes, MS decidedly doesn't support it, I was actually thinking in terms of 32-bit addressing - which *would* only support up to 4GB. Thanks for the mention of PAE; I did a quick search on it and found the following at Wikipedia: In computing, Physical Address Extension (PAE) is a feature to allow 32-bit x86 central processing units (CPUs) to access a physical address space (including random access memory and memory mapped devices) larger than 4 gigabytes. First implemented in the Intel Pentium Pro in 1995, it was extended by AMD to add a level to the page table hierarchy, to allow it to handle up to 52-bit physical addresses, add NX bit functionality, and make it the mandatory memory paging model in long mode.[1] PAE is supported by Intel Pentium Pro and later Pentium-series processors except most 400 MHz-bus versions of the Pentium M.[citation needed] It is also available on AMD processors including the AMD Athlon and later AMD processor models. And it went on in all kinds of details from there. So there are some nifty hardware tricks that let you get around the limitation. Good stuff! :-) Thanks for the info. --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Maximum RAM
Jean-Marc grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 23:11:58 -0800 David Guntner da...@guntner.com wrote: Really? As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. What am I missing here? Some more infos about PAE (Physical Address Extension): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension Yup, found it. :-) Thanks. To be checked in /proc/cpuinfo, search for pae in your CPU flags. Sure enough, it's there, even in my oldish hardware setup being used for my Linux server. I really need to update grin --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Maximum RAM
Dear List - I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? TIA Ethan
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/13 17:42, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Dear List - I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? 64GB Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? n/a TIA Ethan Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a95c5d.3070...@gmail.com
Re: Maximum RAM
Scott Ferguson grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On 12/12/13 17:42, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Dear List - I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? 64GB Really? As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. What am I missing here? --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Maximum RAM
Ethan, still HTML, really ;)? On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 01:42 -0500, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? Only when you compile a 32-bit architecture kernel, then you can enable it by echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set .config echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G=y .config make oldconfig Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386833075.1257.184.camel@archlinux
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/2013 02:11 AM, David Guntner wrote: Scott Ferguson grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On 12/12/13 17:42, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Dear List - I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? 64GB Really? As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. What am I missing here? --Dave You're missing that it's a complete fallacy. Pretty much any processor from the Pentium Pro and up support PAE, and thus 64GB of RAM. Microsoft decided not to support that on the 32-bit versions of their consumer operating systems, but there's no technical reason preventing a 32-bit OS from using more than 4GB. (I mention MS because that's where most people I talk to get this idea from.) Provided the motherboard supports it, that is. :) -PaulNM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a964fc.3090...@paulscrap.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On Wed, 2013-12-11 at 23:11 -0800, David Guntner wrote: On 12/12/13 17:42, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: pae kernel This ^ What am I missing here? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1386833256.1257.186.camel@archlinux
Re: Maximum RAM
On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 23:11:58 -0800 David Guntner da...@guntner.com wrote: Really? As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. What am I missing here? Some more infos about PAE (Physical Address Extension): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension To be checked in /proc/cpuinfo, search for pae in your CPU flags. --Dave Like PailNM said, not implemented in Microsoft O/S. Jean-Marc jean-m...@6jf.be pgp39ZEdL6ZVW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Maximum RAM
David Guntner wrote: Scott Ferguson grabbed a keyboard and wrote: erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? 64GB Really? As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. What am I missing here? Read all about PAE (Physical Address Extension) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension The hardware actually has more than 32-bits for physical memory addressing. It is actually a 36-bit addressing machine. That is why it is an address extension. But only the operating system kernel has access to those extra address bits. Programs do not. This allows the system _kernel_ to address more than 32-bits of memory. The kernel could address up to 64G. However _programs_ are still limited to 32-bits. In practice an individual program is limited to either 2G or 3G depending upon how it is compiled and linked. But if the system has more memory then many 2G programs could be running at one time consuming more than the 4G total that a 32-bit operating system would be limited to. You could run Firefox and still have system memory available for something else! :-) Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/13 18:11, David Guntner wrote: Scott Ferguson grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On 12/12/13 17:42, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Dear List - I am running 32 bit sid with a pae kernel. What is the maximum RAM that can be used? 64GB Really? Yes. Really. With few exceptions (do crippled PC-Chips boards count?), from last centuries Pentium Pro to current. As I understand it, a 32-bit operating system cannot address more than 4G of memory. Really? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pae+i386+linux+maximum+ram What am I missing here? Please start another thread for a new problem. --Dave Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a969a0.9020...@gmail.com
Re: Maximum RAM
On 12/12/13 18:24, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Ethan, still HTML, really ;)? On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 01:42 -0500, erosenb...@hygeiabiomedical.com wrote: Are there any command line statement(s) that will enable the system to use more than 4 GB of RAM? Only when you compile a 32-bit architecture kernel, then you can enable it by echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM4G is not set .config echo CONFIG_HIGHMEM64G=y .config make oldconfig Regards, Ralf Huh? :/ Which distro ships a pae kernel with highmem64G *disabled* in the default .config? Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52a96a9f.8040...@gmail.com
