Re: Re (6): POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:21:58 -0700, peasthope wrote:

> From: =?utf-8?B?Q2FtYWxlw7Nu?=  Date: Mon, 30 
Jan
> 2012 19:48:09 +0100
>> Sorry if I bothered you.
> 
> Slightly irked.  No scars.
> 
>> ... don't know who ...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklaus_Wirth
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28programming_language%29 & etc.
> 
>> ... or what company makes the development ...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Z%C3%BCrich
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_operating_system
> http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/

Is that a complete OS instead a standalone MUA? Things are getting more 
complex.

>> ... just a user POV ...
> 
> It is my page giving information rather than opinion.

Oh, it was yours? Sorry, didn't notice O:-)

>> It makes me really doubt :-)
> 
> What's to doubt?

About if it is a bug or user's misconfiguration.
 
>> Sure, that's why I can put my hand on fire for Oberon.
> 
> Stick to mutt.

I'll take your word because I only can speak for Mutt.

>> Yup, I know. IIRC I reviewed and added some hints for that page ;-)
> 
> It's still evolving.

And getting better.

>> "People" and "rational" can't go in the same phrase, they collide
> 
> Often, yes.

Sadly, more than often, I'd say. People is lazy (and unrational) "by 
design" and will do whatever cost less for him/her. And Mutt's usability 
has nothing to do with a webmail in this regard. It's a lost battle.

Greetings,

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Re (6): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

From:   =?utf-8?B?Q2FtYWxlw7Nu?= 
Date:   Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:48:09 +0100
> Sorry if I bothered you.

Slightly irked.  No scars.

> ... don't know who ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niklaus_Wirth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28programming_language%29
& etc.

> ... or what company makes the development ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Z%C3%BCrich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_operating_system
http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/

> ... just a user POV ...

It is my page giving information rather than opinion.

> It makes me really doubt :-)

What's to doubt?

> Sure, that's why I can put my hand on fire for Oberon. 

Stick to mutt.

> Yup, I know. IIRC I reviewed and added some hints for that page ;-)

It's still evolving.

> "People" and "rational" can't go in the same phrase, they collide

Often, yes.

Regards,... Peter E.





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Re: Re (5): POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

El 2012-01-30 a las 09:52 -0700, peasth...@shaw.ca escribió:

(resending to the list)

> From: Camaleon 
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:41:58 + (UTC)
> > A bug at the MUA, then?
> 
> Yes.  Does "http://carnot.yi.org/OberonPage.html#Mail"; need more clarity?

Sorry if I bothered you.

I'm not familiar with that MUA, I don't know who or what company makes 
the development so I can't tell if that's a trusted source or just a user 
POV, or... whatever.

That and the fact the page starts with:

***
This page is a personal collection of notes. For authoritative 
documentation, please refer to http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/ . 
***

It makes me really doubt :-)
 
> > Mmm, I'm not that confidence for Oberon ...
> 
> For any software, some direct experience is necessary to have a 
> realistic view of efficacy.

Sure, that's why I can put my hand on fire for Oberon. It's an 
unknown/untested piece of software for me.

> > Or better yet, use a newsreader, ...
> 
> I had a preliminary look a week back and will continue.  Thanks.
> 
> > ... convince people to ditch Gmail|Yahoo|Hotmail webmail's ...
> 
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists provides information.  

Yup, I know. IIRC I reviewed and added some hints for that page ;-)

> With any luck at all at least some people will make rational choices.

"People" and "rational" can't go in the same phrase, they collide :-P

Greetings,

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Re: Re(4): POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:05:46 -0700, peasthope wrote:

> From: Camaleon 
> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:31:35 + (UTC)
>> So finally, what are you going to do or what are now your plans
>> regarding your original issue? :-?
> 
> It was fixed last Thursday, January 19 shortly after Aoki rminded me to
> check with telnet.  Documented in the second paragraph here.
> "http://carnot.yi.org/OberonPage.html#Mail"; Editing and recompiling in
> less than 5 minutes.

Oh, I see. A bug at the MUA, then?

>> What I can tell is that editing the subject line can make some MUAs
>> (mostly webmails) break the threading style by removing the required
>> references and/or reply-to headers.
> 
> Use mutt or Oberon.  Instructions in
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists pending.

Mmm, I'm not that confidence for Oberon but +1 for Mutt. Or better yet, 
use a newsreader, it's the perfect transport protocol for dealing with 
mailing lists.

But now the hard part: convince people to ditch Gmail|Yahoo|Hotmail 
webmail's in favor of Mutt or another decent MUA >>:-)

Greetings,

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Re: What�s wrong with fetchmail? (Re: POP3 in Debian)

[Robert Holtzman]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:15:33AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2012, lee wrote:
> > Jon Dowland  writes:
> > 
> > > I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
> > > or mpop are options.
> > 
> > What´s wrong with fetchmail?
> > 
> > 
> 
> It's fine if it works for you, but some years ago I had problems
> authenticting myself to a mail server with fetchmail. I switched to
> getmail4 and it worked instantly. I can't remember the details now but
> I've always used getmail4 since them.

I'm not sure something that happened to you years ago would justify a
recomendation not to use it.

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Re: What´s wrong with fetchmail? (Re: POP3 in Debian)

[Anthony Campbell]

On 24 Jan 2012, Johann Spies wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:15:33PM +0200, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> 
> 
> > It's fine if it works for you, but some years ago I had problems
> > authenticting myself to a mail server with fetchmail. I switched to
> > getmail4 and it worked instantly. I can't remember the details now but
> > I've always used getmail4 since them.
> 
> I have used fetchmail for many years (might be about 15 now).  At more
> than one stage I experimented with getmail which also worked but I
> always came back to fetchmail.  I found getmail a bit more complicated
> (or maybe it was just 'strange' for me) to configure properly.
> 
> Regards
> Johann
> 

Interesting. I found getmail easy to configure, using the examples in
the docs as a template. Anyway, this just illustrates one of the nice
things about Linux - lots of different ways to get the result you want.


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Re: What´s wrong with fetchmail? (Re: POP3 in Debian)

[Johann Spies]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:15:33PM +0200, Anthony Campbell wrote:


> It's fine if it works for you, but some years ago I had problems
> authenticting myself to a mail server with fetchmail. I switched to
> getmail4 and it worked instantly. I can't remember the details now but
> I've always used getmail4 since them.

I have used fetchmail for many years (might be about 15 now).  At more
than one stage I experimented with getmail which also worked but I
always came back to fetchmail.  I found getmail a bit more complicated
(or maybe it was just 'strange' for me) to configure properly.

Regards
Johann

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Re: What´s wrong with fetchmail? (Re: POP3 in Debian)

[Tom H]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:47 AM, lee  wrote:
> Jon Dowland  writes:
>
>> I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
>> or mpop are options.
>
> What´s wrong with fetchmail?

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg01476.html


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Re: What´s wrong with fetchmail? (Re: POP3 in Debian)

[Anthony Campbell]

On 24 Jan 2012, lee wrote:
> Jon Dowland  writes:
> 
> > I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
> > or mpop are options.
> 
> What´s wrong with fetchmail?
> 
> 

It's fine if it works for you, but some years ago I had problems
authenticting myself to a mail server with fetchmail. I switched to
getmail4 and it worked instantly. I can't remember the details now but
I've always used getmail4 since them.

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What´s wrong with fetchmail? (Re: POP3 in Debian)

[lee]

Jon Dowland  writes:

> I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
> or mpop are options.

What´s wrong with fetchmail?


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Re(4): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

*   From: peasth...@shaw.ca
*   Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:31:50 -0800
> (POP3 server run by Shaw ISP) - (My Linux router) - (MUA on Oberon 
> workstation).

*   From: Camaleón 
*   Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:46:22 + (UTC)
> That's the most basic setup.

Thanks!

From:   Andrei POPESCU 
Date:   Sat, 21 Jan 2012 22:17:08 +0200
> ... due to your complicated e-mail setup, ...

Camaleón doesn't agree.  Oh well.  It's the simplest arrangement 
I've found.

Regards,  ... Peter E.


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Re(4): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

From:   Camaleon 
Date:   Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:31:35 + (UTC)
> So finally, what are you going to do or what are now your plans regarding 
> your original issue? :-?

It was fixed last Thursday, January 19 shortly after Aoki 
rminded me to check with telnet.  Documented in the second 
paragraph here. "http://carnot.yi.org/OberonPage.html#Mail";
Editing and recompiling in less than 5 minutes.

> What I can tell is that editing the subject line can make some MUAs 
> (mostly webmails) break the threading style by removing the required 
> references and/or reply-to headers.

Use mutt or Oberon.  Instructions in http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists 
pending.

TTFN,... Peter E.






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Re: Re(3): POP3 in Debian

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 20 ian 12, 17:28:29, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:
> 
> Never been too bothered with spam.  Shaw offers filtration 
> and I leave it off.  I wonder whether definite spams are 
> caught by Shaw or further upstream.  Do I.S.P.s ever routinely check 
> for it in outgoing mail. 

In my experience both Gmail and GMX have some checks. I've been hit by 
this when bouncing list spam to report-listspam@l.d.o.

> In any case, I just click away the few that arrive each day.  Might 
> consider local filtering one day.
 
You are lucky, I get 50 to 100 spams per day. Gmail does have pretty 
good filtering, but I do have occasional false negatives and even some 
false positives. Because of the false positives I do regularly check the 
Spam folder.

> Incidentally, someone please have a look at 
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_email_subject_abbreviations
> section "Iteration of Reply" and point out any errors.  It's 
> pertinent to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists page.

As far as I understand a mail client should add a "Re:" on the first 
reply, but otherwise leave the Subject alone. Some broken clients don't 
recognize the first "Re:" (due to case?) and add additional ones.

Your messages are the very few I have ever seen to also add a number, 
which is why I just assumed either your client is broken or it is due to 
your complicated e-mail setup, but it seems to me that at least mutt 
knows how to deal with it:

,[ muttrc(5) ]
|
|reply_regexp
| Type: regular expression
| Default: “^(re([\[0-9\]+])*|aw):[ \t]*”
|
|   A  regular expression used to recognize reply messages when 
|   threading and replying. The default value corresponds to the 
|   English ”Re:”
|   and the German ”Aw:”.
|
`


However, I have no RFC to cite, this is just what I have seen on mailing 
lists and private mail.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Re(3): POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:28:29 -0800, peasthope wrote:

> * From: Camaleón  *  Date: Fri, 20 Jan 
2012
> 21:46:22 + (UTC)
>> I've reviewed the messages you have posted in this thread but haven't
>> found a reference on what was your e-mail client :-?
> 
> In "http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg01548.html"; the 4th
> non-empty line of the body of the message has "Oberon Mail (ejz) on PC
> Native 05.01.2003".

I missed/bypassed that, sorry. Maybe because the change of the subject.

> Then again near the bottom of the message, 4th non-empty line prior to
> "Regards".

I see. So did you finally reached to the conclusion that your MUA was the 
culprit here? Good :-)
 
>> ... you miss one of the most useful tools for handling today's
>> mailboxes -running your own spamassassin- unless your ISP has a good
>> and fully customizable anti-spam filter.
> 
> Never been too bothered with spam.  Shaw offers filtration and I leave
> it off.  I wonder whether definite spams are caught by Shaw or further
> upstream.  Do I.S.P.s ever routinely check for it in outgoing mail.  In
> any case, I just click away the few that arrive each day.  Might
> consider local filtering one day.

There are some ISPs that make a good job (when talking about 
effectiveness) with their spam filters (e.g., Gmail) but the problem is 
about configuration. The level of customization it allows a local anti-
spam filter is very high and such flexibility can't be obtained with my 
Gmail account.

So finally, what are you going to do or what are now your plans regarding 
your original issue? :-?

> Incidentally, someone please have a look at
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_email_subject_abbreviations
> section "Iteration of Reply" and point out any errors.  It's pertinent
> to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists page.

I've never heard about that. I mean, I'm not aware of any rule or 
recommendation for writing at the "subject" line, I've always thought 
it's "free-style" or based on the user's preferences. I think what 
mandates here are the header fields.

What I can tell is that editing the subject line can make some MUAs 
(mostly webmails) break the threading style by removing the required 
references and/or reply-to headers.

Greetings,

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Re: Re(3): POP3 in Debian

[Joe]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:28:29 -0800
peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:

> 
> Never been too bothered with spam.  Shaw offers filtration 
> and I leave it off.  I wonder whether definite spams are 
> caught by Shaw or further upstream.

If their SMTP servers are checking for proper DNS and using blacklists,
that will deal with almost all spam. If you're downloading only for
legitimate recipients and not using a catch-all, that will take out
almost all the rest. The overwhelmingly vast majority of spam is the NDR
type, sent to deliberately non-existent recipient names.

>  Do I.S.P.s ever routinely 
> check for it in outgoing mail. 

Don't think so. About half the spam I get from from legitimate SMTP
sending servers comes from Google and Yahoo. Yahoo in particular are
right on the ball in stopping incoming spam, to the point of impeding
people trying to send their customers technical IT instructions, but
they don't seem to give a damn what their customers do. But most spam
comes directly from compromised domestic computers, not through an ISP's
smarthost, so DNS checks catch all that.

Lots of small US ISPs (<1000 IP addresses) seem happy for their clients
to send masses of spam, generally for legal but dubious products. If I
get spam from a large company or university, I'll usually let them
know, but these small ISPs go straight into the blacklist for the first
offence.

-- 
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Re(3): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

*   From: Camaleón 
*   Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:46:22 + (UTC)
> I've reviewed the messages you have posted in this thread but haven't 
> found a reference on what was your e-mail client :-?

In "http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/01/msg01548.html"; 
the 4th non-empty line of the body of the message has
"Oberon Mail (ejz) on PC Native 05.01.2003".

Then again near the bottom of the message, 4th 
non-empty line prior to "Regards".

> ... you miss one of the most useful tools for handling today's 
> mailboxes -running your own spamassassin- unless your ISP has a good and 
> fully customizable anti-spam filter.

Never been too bothered with spam.  Shaw offers filtration 
and I leave it off.  I wonder whether definite spams are 
caught by Shaw or further upstream.  Do I.S.P.s ever routinely 
check for it in outgoing mail.  In any case, I just click 
away the few that arrive each day.  Might consider local 
filtering one day.

Incidentally, someone please have a look at 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_email_subject_abbreviations
section "Iteration of Reply" and point out any errors.  It's 
pertinent to http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists page.

Thanks,   ... Peter E.


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Re: Re(2): POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:31:50 -0800, peasthope wrote:

> Camaleon,
> 
> From: Camaleon 
> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:34:04 + (UTC)
>> Which MUA?
> 
> Refer to my message sent earlier today.  Our messages crossed.

I've reviewed the messages you have posted in this thread but haven't 
found a reference on what was your e-mail client :-?

>> In your case, you can just reduce the full chain to: POP3 server
>> (remote site / isp server) ††' fetchmail ††' your $HOME mailbox
 ††' MUA
>> (clients)
> 
> Simpler still.
> (POP3 server run by Shaw ISP) - (My Linux router) - (MUA on Oberon
> workstation). Addtional details in
> "http://carnot.yi.org/NetworksPage.html";.

Oh, well, sure. That's the most basic setup.

But that way you miss one of the most useful tools for handling today's 
mailboxes -running your own spamassassin- unless your ISP has a good and 
fully customizable anti-spam filter.

P.S. IIRC, fetchmail works by default with mbox files but I'd say it can 
virtually work with any kind of mailbox storage formats given that it 
delivers the messages to the MTA.

Greetings,

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Re(2): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

Camaleon,

From:   Camaleon 
Date:   Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:34:04 + (UTC)
> Which MUA?

Refer to my message sent earlier today.  Our messages crossed.

> In your case, you can just reduce the full chain to:
> POP3 server (remote site / isp server) ††' fetchmail ††' your $HOME mailbox 
> ††' MUA (clients)

Simpler still.
(POP3 server run by Shaw ISP) - (My Linux router) - (MUA on Oberon workstation).
Addtional details in "http://carnot.yi.org/NetworksPage.html";.

Regards, ... Peter E.

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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Walter Hurry]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:38:23 +, Jon Dowland wrote:

> I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
> or mpop are options.

What's wrong with Fetchmail? Works flawlessly for me.



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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:49:22 -0800, peasthope wrote:

> Since the weekend my MUA POP3 connection has failed to receive messages
> with this appearing in the log. 

Which MUA?

> --- POP
> RCV: +OK pop.shaw.ca
> SND: USER peasthope
> RCV: +OK password required for user peasth...@shaw.ca 
> SND: PASS 
> RCV: +OK server ready
> SND: UIDL
> RCV: +OK 35 messages
> SND: LIST  1
> RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
> SND: RETR  1
> RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
> SND: QUIT
> 
> Failure in parsing "LIST 1" baffles.  How big a problem can parsing of 6
> characters be?  

I have encountered weird problems with a combination of qmail (server) 
and some bad formatted e-mail messages (most of them spam) when retrieved 
from my client. Using another MUA can help in some cases.

> To understand further, I want a Debian system to automatically retrieve
> messages from the POP3 server and put them in /home/peter/mbox. Then
> qpopper can let the preferred MUA pop them from the mbox.  Which
> software should be configured to retrieve from the ISP POP3 server and
> store in mbox?  Exim, getmail or another?

I'm using fetchmail to do that. My schema is as follows:

POP3 server (remote site / isp server) → fetchmail → spamassassin → postfix → 
cyrus (my local pop3 e-mail server) → MUA (clients)

I use this setup because I have to distribute e-mails to my network users 
and so I prefer having a complete pop3/imap server running locally. In your 
case, you can just reduce the full chain to:

POP3 server (remote site / isp server) → fetchmail → your $HOME mailbox → MUA 
(clients)

Greetings,

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POP3 compliance; was Re(3): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

*   From: Osamu Aoki 
*   Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:10:35 +0900
> The real question is who's bug is this.

Oberon Mail (ejz) on PC Native 05.01.2003.  Fixed and 
documented here.  "http://carnot.yi.org/OberonPage.html#Mail";

> If this is bug on Debian ...

Definitely not.  Debian was only a possibility as a means 
of investigating the problem.

> If this is non-RFC complient bug, maybe complain to ISP 
> or Zimbra POP3 server developer.

Until last weekend the ISP POP3 server accepted "LIST  1", 
which doesn't comply to RFC 1939.  I hadn't noticed which server 
was used but infer that last weekend they installed a new 
server or changed a flag in their Zimbra to strictly enforce 
the RFC.  So without warning "LIST  1" was no longer accepted.
In any case, I can't complain about enforcement of syntax.  
The MUAs in MS and *nix systems must have had the 
strict syntax all along; almost nobody noticed the change.

> I think your usage of MUA is not a typical one.

MUA is the acronym for Mail User Agent.  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_user_agent

> MUA is mutt, thunderbird, ... 

In my case "Oberon Mail (ejz) on PC Native 05.01.2003".

> ... not POP3 server.

Correct.  The POP3 server is a Zimbra operated by my ISP, 
Shaw Cable.

Regards, ... Peter E.

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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Camaleón]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:38:23 +, Jon Dowland wrote:

(...)

> I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
> or mpop are options.

Long-time fetchmail user -and lover- here! (me, I mean...) :-)

Can you please explain what motivates your above advice?

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Re: Re(2): POP3 in Debian

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 08:49:24AM -0800, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:
> * From: Osamu Aoki 
> * Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:10:34 +0900
> > Both getmail4 and fetchmail can handle this task well ...
> 
> According to the Wikipedia, fetchmail can not deliver to mbox.

Well by itself ... yes you are right.

| fetchmail  is  a  mail-retrieval  and forwarding utility; it fetches
| mail from remote mailservers and forwards it to your local (client)
| machine's delivery system.  You can then handle the retrieved mail using
| normal mail user agents such as mutt(1), elm(1) or Mail(1).

Its all about fetching.  You need another program to deliver to ... like
procmail/maildrop/...

> > Are you running that qpopper yourself?
> 
> Not now.  It was installed years ago before I learned 
> to simplify configuration.
> 
> > Or connect to remote POP3 site with telnet. 
> 
> That explained the problem in a few minutes.  The MUA 
> is putting two blanks between LIST and 1.  The Zimbra 
> POP3 server is accepting one blank and not two.  My 
> log 

You mean your log viewing environment.

> is a variable pitch font and I failed to notice the 
> two blanks.  Should have noticed in the Courier font 
> emessage but failed again.  The ISP must have changed 
> the POP server last weekend.  No public notice and 
> "technical support" staff were unaware.  My telnet 
> session follows in case anyone is interested.

Good for you.  The real question is who's bus is this.

If this is bug on Debian package which is a bit too tight than what RFC
allows, please file bug report on Debian.  If this is non-RFC complient
bug, maybe complain to ISP or Zimba POP3 server developer.

...
> Now that I understand, the MUA can be changed to send just 
> one blank and interact with the ISP POP3 directly again.

I think your usage of MUA is not a typical one.

MUA is mutt, thunderbird, ... not POP3 server.




Osamu


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getmail replacing fetchmail (was: POP3 in Debian)

[Mathias Bauer]

Hello again,

* Martin Steigerwald wrote on 2012-01-19 at 19:28 (+0100):

> Am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 schrieb Jon Dowland:
> > On 19/01/12 12:50, Mathias Bauer wrote:
> > > Is this a general advice?  If so, then why?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > 
> > covers many reasons.

thanks for the link.

> Holy smoke!
>
> Well that are enough reasons for me. OTOH it would be
> interesting to know the other side of the story.

I got curious about getmail so I just gave it a try and it seems
to be quite nice.  But apart from fetchmail's "security history"
and the asserted complexity of its config file, that was pointed
to several times in the (in some way emotionally heated) document
linked above, getmail lacks two features at first glance:

(a) Any SSL certification check avoiding a man-in-the-middle
attack.

(b) A mechanism for direct re-injection retrieved messages via
SMTP to the client machine's port 25.

Concerning a) it may possibly be implemented by stunnel somehow.
For now I haven't figured it out.  And concerning b) getmail
itself provides a mechanism handing over the retrieved messages
via a pipe (e.g. using /usr/sbin/sendmail to the MTA).  Of course
the needed additional process(es) are far away from being as
efficient as direct delivery via SMTP.  (Although getmail doesn't
(and won't) support (b) and other solutions are recommended in
the docs and its mailing list's messages, there may be situations
where "going through the MTA" is necessary.)

Well, for the moment it seems to me that this is the price of
replacing fetchmail - and of "The Unix Way (tm) - do one thing
and do it well" :-)

Regards,
Mathias


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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 schrieb Jon Dowland:
> On 19/01/12 12:50, Mathias Bauer wrote:
> > Is this a general advice?  If so, then why?
> 
> Yes.
> 
>  covers many
> reasons.

Holy smoke!

Well that are enough reasons for me. OTOH it would be interesting to know 
the other side of the story.

Thanks for the hint, I will consider it, should I need to configure some 
mail fetching somewhere again.

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Re(2): POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

*   From: Osamu Aoki 
*   Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:10:34 +0900
> Both getmail4 and fetchmail can handle this task well ...

According to the Wikipedia, fetchmail can not deliver to mbox.

> Are you running that qpopper yourself?

Not now.  It was installed years ago before I learned 
to simplify configuration.

> Or connect to remote POP3 site with telnet. 

That explained the problem in a few minutes.  The MUA 
is putting two blanks between LIST and 1.  The Zimbra 
POP3 server is accepting one blank and not two.  My 
log is a variable pitch font and I failed to notice the 
two blanks.  Should have noticed in the Courier font 
emessage but failed again.  The ISP must have changed 
the POP server last weekend.  No public notice and 
"technical support" staff were unaware.  My telnet 
session follows in case anyone is interested.

*   From: Jörg-Volker Peetz 
*   Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:20:01 +0100
> By the way, here we're using pop3 encrypted via ssl (which nowadays every
> provider should have available) in order to protect the password from 
> eavesdropping.

I connect to the home computer through an encrypted OpenVPN 
tunnel.  The home computer is directly connected to the 
ISP network.  For my usage, secure enough.  If a specific 
message is sensitive, I can encrypt it.

*   From: Martin Steigerwald 
*   Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 10:32:49 +0100
> You could try with fetchmail, but I am not completely sure whether it can 
> store what it retrieves in a mbox or whether it only supports maildir.

Now that I understand, the MUA can be changed to send just 
one blank and interact with the ISP POP3 directly again.

Thanks everyone! ... Peter E.

=
peter@dalton:~$ telnet pop.shaw.ca
Trying 64.59.128.135...
Connected to pop.glb.shawcable.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
+OK pop.shaw.ca
USER peasthope
+OK password required for user peasth...@shaw.ca
PASS 
+OK server ready
UIDL
+OK 44 messages
1 262.1SncBhxqQCrWNAm,xqU5SHSAN7Q=
2 263.KJ68ukuCBjc8hDY0BF0eHGGve58=
[42 messages deleted]
.
LIST 1
+OK 1 4211
LIST  1
-ERR unable to parse msg
Quit
+OK cds015.dcs.int.inet Zimbra POP3 server closing connection
Connection closed by foreign host.
=



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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Jon Dowland]

On 19/01/12 12:50, Mathias Bauer wrote:

Is this a general advice?  If so, then why?


Yes.

 covers many
reasons.


Or is it your advice for the OP's aim to directly deliver messages to
a mbox or maildir without exim and without running an MDA.


I didn't read the OP's message as indicating that one piece of software
needed to deliver to that place without invoking another. Indeed, "I 
want a Debian system" would seem to support using multiple bits (such as

getmail + a MDA such as Exim)

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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Mathias Bauer]

* Jon Dowland wrote on 2012-01-19 at 11:38 (+):

> On 19/01/12 09:32, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> >You could try with fetchmail, but I am not completely sure
> >whether it can store what it retrieves in a mbox or whether it
> >only supports maildir.
>
> Fairly sure fetchmail (et al) can inject mail to the local MDA,
> so where it ends up afterwards depends on how you've set up
> exim or an alternative.
>
> I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail:
> getmail or mpop are options.

Is this a general advice?  If so, then why?  Or is it your advice
for the OP's aim to directly deliver messages to a mbox or
maildir without exim and without running an MDA.

Yes, I checked the short package descriptions of getmail and
mpop.  And I'm using fetchmail for myself (but no POP3s) without
any problems.

Regards,
Mathias


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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

Both getmail4 and fetchmail can handle this task well (Though I like
the getmail4 package as being its maintainer.)

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 01:49:22PM -0800, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Since the weekend my MUA POP3 connection has failed to receive 
> messages with this appearing in the log.
> --- POP
> RCV: +OK pop.shaw.ca
> SND: USER peasthope
> RCV: +OK password required for user peasth...@shaw.ca
> SND: PASS 
> RCV: +OK server ready
> SND: UIDL
> RCV: +OK 35 messages
> SND: LIST  1
> RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
> SND: RETR  1
> RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
> SND: QUIT
> 
> Failure in parsing "LIST 1" baffles.  How big a problem can parsing of 6 
> characters be?  To understand further, I want a Debian system to 
> automatically 
> retrieve messages from the POP3 server and put them in /home/peter/mbox.  
> Then qpopper can let the preferred MUA pop them from the mbox.  Which 

Qpopper
The most widely-used POP3 server for UNIX, Linux, etc.
http://www.eudora.com/products/unsupported/qpopper/index.html

Are you running that qpopper yourself?

> software should be configured to retrieve from the ISP POP3 server and 
> store in mbox?  Exim, getmail or another?

I think your message is quite confuting.

Anyway, run your MUA with more verbosity.  mutt have -d option.

Or connect to remote POP3 site with telnet.  

 
> Thanks,  ... Peter E.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 schrieb Martin Steigerwald:
> Am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 schrieb Jon Dowland:
> > On 19/01/12 09:32, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > > You could try with fetchmail, but I am not completely sure whether
> > > it can store what it retrieves in a mbox or whether it only
> > > supports maildir.
> > 
> > Fairly sure fetchmail (et al) can inject mail to the local MDA, so
> > where it ends up afterwards depends on how you've set up exim or an
> > alternative.
[…]
> And yes fetchmail has such an option.

Well at least I read:

- It's now easy to deliver mail to a local LMTP socket.
http://www.fetchmail.info/fetchmail-features.html

- Delivery via SMTP to the client machine's port 25. This means the 
retrieved mail automatically goes to the system default MDA as if it were 
normal sender-initiated SMTP mail.

on

http://www.fetchmail.info/fetchmail-features.html

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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Donnerstag, 19. Januar 2012 schrieb Jon Dowland:
> On 19/01/12 09:32, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > You could try with fetchmail, but I am not completely sure whether it
> > can store what it retrieves in a mbox or whether it only supports
> > maildir.
> 
> Fairly sure fetchmail (et al) can inject mail to the local MDA, so
> where it ends up afterwards depends on how you've set up exim or an
> alternative.
> 
> I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail
> or mpop are options.

Well I am not using either, I was just suggesting, that if one tool does 
not work, the other might. But then when the one tool worked before, it is 
probably something else.

And yes fetchmail has such an option.

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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Jon Dowland]

On 19/01/12 09:32, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

You could try with fetchmail, but I am not completely sure whether it can
store what it retrieves in a mbox or whether it only supports maildir.


Fairly sure fetchmail (et al) can inject mail to the local MDA, so where 
it ends up afterwards depends on how you've set up exim or an alternative.


I'd strongly recommend using something *other* than fetchmail: getmail 
or mpop are options.



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Re: Re: POP3 in Debian

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mi, 18 ian 12, 19:16:03, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:
> * From: Andrei Popescu 
> * Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 00:06:16 +0200
> > Try having a look at your mail via some other 
> > means (webmail or so) to see if there is something that might create 
> > problems.
> 
> Web access shows nothing unusual.  Messages have come 
> to the I.S.P. mailbox since the problem with POP appeared 
> and I've deleted messages, including the oldest, via the Web.
> So newest and oldest messages have changed.  Assuming 
> message 1 is the newest or oldest, POP can't be stumbling 
> on one specific message.  I can empty the mailbox with the 
> Web interface and see the result.
 
Sorry, no other ideas.

> > For automatic retrieval I have been using getmail for a long time.
> 
> Do you have Exim still?

I do have postfix, but only for sending mails. The recommended getmail 
setup does not involve any sendmail clone (unlike fetchmail)[1]. You may 
want to use an MDA (mail delivery agent), since getmail's built-in 
sorting is limited. The author believes in The Unix Way (tm) - do one 
thing and do it well ;)

[1] re-injecting received mails in a SMTP daemon can lead to strange 
results if you are not careful.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2012 schrieb peasth...@shaw.ca:
> Failure in parsing "LIST 1" baffles.  How big a problem can parsing of
> 6  characters be?  To understand further, I want a Debian system to
> automatically retrieve messages from the POP3 server and put them in
> /home/peter/mbox. Then qpopper can let the preferred MUA pop them from
> the mbox.  Which software should be configured to retrieve from the
> ISP POP3 server and store in mbox?  Exim, getmail or another?

You could try with fetchmail, but I am not completely sure whether it can 
store what it retrieves in a mbox or whether it only supports maildir.

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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Jörg-Volker Peetz]

If it has worked before, it could as well be a temporarily problem of your 
provider.
By the way, here we're using pop3 encrypted via ssl (which nowadays every
provider should have available) in order to protect the password from 
eavesdropping.
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Re: Re: POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

*   From: Andrei Popescu 
*   Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 00:06:16 +0200
> Try having a look at your mail via some other 
> means (webmail or so) to see if there is something that might create 
> problems.

Web access shows nothing unusual.  Messages have come 
to the I.S.P. mailbox since the problem with POP appeared 
and I've deleted messages, including the oldest, via the Web.
So newest and oldest messages have changed.  Assuming 
message 1 is the newest or oldest, POP can't be stumbling 
on one specific message.  I can empty the mailbox with the 
Web interface and see the result.

> For automatic retrieval I have been using getmail for a long time.

Do you have Exim still?

Thanks,   ... Peter E.





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Re: POP3 in Debian

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mi, 18 ian 12, 13:49:22, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Since the weekend my MUA POP3 connection has failed to receive 
> messages with this appearing in the log.
> --- POP
> RCV: +OK pop.shaw.ca
> SND: USER peasthope
> RCV: +OK password required for user peasth...@shaw.ca
> SND: PASS 
> RCV: +OK server ready
> SND: UIDL
> RCV: +OK 35 messages
> SND: LIST  1
> RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
> SND: RETR  1
> RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
> SND: QUIT
> 
> Failure in parsing "LIST 1" baffles.  How big a problem can parsing of 
> 6 characters be?

The problem might come from one specific message in your Inbox 
(malformed or whatever). Try having a look at your mail via some other 
means (webmail or so) to see if there is something that might create 
problems.

For automatic retrieval I have been using getmail for a long time.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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POP3 in Debian

[peasthope]

Hi,

Since the weekend my MUA POP3 connection has failed to receive 
messages with this appearing in the log.
--- POP
RCV: +OK pop.shaw.ca
SND: USER peasthope
RCV: +OK password required for user peasth...@shaw.ca
SND: PASS 
RCV: +OK server ready
SND: UIDL
RCV: +OK 35 messages
SND: LIST  1
RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
SND: RETR  1
RCV: -ERR unable to parse msg
SND: QUIT

Failure in parsing "LIST 1" baffles.  How big a problem can parsing of 6 
characters be?  To understand further, I want a Debian system to automatically 
retrieve messages from the POP3 server and put them in /home/peter/mbox.  
Then qpopper can let the preferred MUA pop them from the mbox.  Which 
software should be configured to retrieve from the ISP POP3 server and 
store in mbox?  Exim, getmail or another?

Thanks,  ... Peter E.



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