Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:46:38AM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote: Hi, On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 06:31:50AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: ... I've been a computer user since before Mr. Torvalds was born. I just never had reason to have contact with *nix. Even when working for DEC I was much more into analog than digital. I see. I guess you were a VMS or some mainframe user... As for apt-zip: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-zip http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-zip.html http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=apt-zip It seems somewhat stalled. You may wish to takeover project to update it to be compatible with current apt repository. The last update was 2008. There is also apt-offline, which I think is still being maintained. http://apt-offline.alioth.debian.org/ I have used it successfully in the past. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121118104838.GB24408@tal
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Chris Bannister wrote: On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:46:38AM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote: Hi, On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 06:31:50AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: ... I've been a computer user since before Mr. Torvalds was born. I just never had reason to have contact with *nix. Even when working for DEC I was much more into analog than digital. I see. I guess you were a VMS or some mainframe user... As for apt-zip: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-zip http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-zip.html http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=apt-zip It seems somewhat stalled. You may wish to takeover project to update it to be compatible with current apt repository. The last update was 2008. There is also apt-offline, which I think is still being maintained. http://apt-offline.alioth.debian.org/ I have used it successfully in the past. Version 1.2 was announced on this list back in April. As to DEC, we had a PDP-11 running either RT-11 or RSX-11M - forget which - doing data collection. As to the reference in the last couple of posts, I've seen many but not all. My initial approach to Linux was Read much, download little ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50a8d344.1000...@cloud85.net
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Osamu Aoki wrote: Hi, On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 01:53:47PM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: Terho Uotila wrote: Unless you want to try very minimal system you probably want shadow passwords. I do not understand. Going by text displayed during the installation I had the impression that shadow passwords were for those overly paranoid about supposed incremental security advantages. My machines will effectively be the ultimate in single user systems. I will be the only one with physical access. They will have only occasional restricted access to the internet over a dial up connection. It is very unlikely that there will ever be a LAN among my machines. I do not see that Debian even claims that shadow passwords *could* be of any benefit to me ;/ 1. Use of shadow is almost standard these days. 2. If your are attacked while you are using user account to access internet, the use of shadow password gives you one thin but extra layer of protection to protect your root account after your user account is hacked. 3. Disabling shadow does not give you much speed or space. Configuring system to odd configuration is usually not good idea since it is tested less. Chuckle. One does not usually associated the word normal/standard/typical with me. My whole goal is to do an install that I know is on the fringe. That is why I bought a used laptop which will _*NOT*_ be connected to the internet for by experiments. On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:04:21 -0600 Richard Owlett wrote: 2. Did not enable shadow passwords (...) 3. Attempted su, neither root nor user password accepted You may have hit a bug. Obviously there is a bug. The question is it me or Debian? In this context, more likely Debian or its upstream. I noticed a problem with disabling shadow passwords some time back and I don't know if anyone has fixed it, as (ahem) I haven't gotten around to reporting it yet... For you I have such a deal. I've submitted a bug [693...@bugs.debian.org] on which you may comment. This will be especially useful if the problem has been observed in something later than version 6.0.5. I recall (maybe wrongly) figuring out that when shadow passwords were not enabled, installer still saved root password into shadow before disabling it, or something on those lines. I don't know. Though ~3 score and 10, this is my first foray into *nix. Welcome and if you are newbie, stay within safe area :-) That's no fun. Do not try to do something complicated before getting system understood. I'm what once was referred to as a kinesthetic learner. I learn by doing. I've been a computer user since before Mr. Torvalds was born. I just never had reason to have contact with *nix. Even when working for DEC I was much more into analog than digital. I could fix my installation at the time by going into single user mode and changing root password, after which it worked correctly. I don't understand that. I did not know this but passwd package ships command called shadowconfig. Use shadowconfig on. See man shadowconfig and /usr/share/doc/passwd/README.Debian for more. (If you installed from CD, you may alternatively reinstall system ...) By the way, we have some basics for use as: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ Thanks for reminding me. I haven't used it as, being on a dial-up connection, online manuals are inconvenient. Is it available as a PDF or as a single HTML file? Is there a similar volume of preseeding, especially for those of us who insist on installing without the availability of an internet connection. [I'm in rural SW MO on the end of a 56k dial-up connection ;] Good luck, Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50a783b6.30...@cloud85.net
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Hi, On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 06:31:50AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: ... I've been a computer user since before Mr. Torvalds was born. I just never had reason to have contact with *nix. Even when working for DEC I was much more into analog than digital. I see. I guess you were a VMS or some mainframe user... As for apt-zip: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-zip http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-zip.html http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=apt-zip It seems somewhat stalled. You may wish to takeover project to update it to be compatible with current apt repository. The last update was 2008. By the way, we have some basics for use as: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ Thanks for reminding me. I haven't used it as, being on a dial-up connection, online manuals are inconvenient. Is it available as a PDF or as a single HTML file? For installation, you should start with Install Manual: http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/installmanual http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/installmanual PDFs are available. If you use 64bit PC, you want amd64 version. It is good idea to read this if you really wish to tweak. It is available as Debian Package. http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debian-reference.html apt-get install debian-reference-en This is more about Unix shell focused. Once you install it, you can see it via browser. (I know I used to have PDF. Building PDF for non-English via XML-XeTeX is still not so easy. That will be my next project. Maybe I should enable just for English and French first which I know is easy.) Another good source is THE DEBIAN ADMINISTRATOR'S HANDBOOK http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debian-handbook.html apt-get install debian-handbook General guide. Is there a similar volume of preseeding, especially for those of us who insist on installing without the availability of an internet connection. [I'm in rural SW MO on the end of a 56k dial-up connection ;] I see. You got no speed limit for automobile but speed limit for Internet. 56k should be practically impossible for tracking testing without apt-zip. If you have access to fast network somewhere, download DVD-1 at least. That should give you decent system. (There are 2 more DVDs to be complete.) http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata All you need is few file images. You do not need network to install DVD or CD. (I checked how big archive is, it seems DLBL image is only one... so guess) If you do not install large desktop application and keep it just with consoles, tracking testing may be possible with direct 56k connection. Regards, Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121117154638.GA18311@goofy.localdomain
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Hi,I thought about different approach ... Since On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:46:38AM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote: Hi, On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 06:31:50AM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: ... I've been a computer user since before Mr. Torvalds was born. I just never had reason to have contact with *nix. Even when working for DEC I was much more into analog than digital. I see. I guess you were a VMS or some mainframe user... As for apt-zip: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-zip http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-zip.html http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=apt-zip It seems somewhat stalled. You may wish to takeover project to update it to be compatible with current apt repository. The last update was 2008. Usually, I recommend not to try to make full archive copy to reduce our server load. But if you are careful, this may be a simpler solution than fixing apt-zip. You may also avoid some parts of archive. These debian package maybe useful to be as efficient as possible to make partial mirror. debmirror http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debmirror.html (This is made by debhelper developer and current) apt-mirror http://apt-mirror.sourceforge.net/ http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-mirror.html apt-p2phttp://www.camrdale.org/apt-p2p/ http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/apt-mirror.html Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121117161801.GA19855@goofy.localdomain
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Unless you want to try very minimal system you probably want shadow passwords. On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:04:21 -0600 Richard Owlett wrote: 2. Did not enable shadow passwords (...) 3. Attempted su, neither root nor user password accepted You may have hit a bug. I noticed a problem with disabling shadow passwords some time back and I don't know if anyone has fixed it, as (ahem) I haven't gotten around to reporting it yet... I recall (maybe wrongly) figuring out that when shadow passwords were not enabled, installer still saved root password into shadow before disabling it, or something on those lines. I could fix my installation at the time by going into single user mode and changing root password, after which it worked correctly. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121116125705.6ede7...@deneb.local.net
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Terho Uotila wrote: Unless you want to try very minimal system you probably want shadow passwords. I do not understand. Going by text displayed during the installation I had the impression that shadow passwords were for those overly paranoid about supposed incremental security advantages. My machines will effectively be the ultimate in single user systems. I will be the only one with physical access. They will have only occasional restricted access to the internet over a dial up connection. It is very unlikely that there will ever be a LAN among my machines. I do not see that Debian even claims that shadow passwords *could* be of any benefit to me ;/ On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:04:21 -0600 Richard Owlett wrote: 2. Did not enable shadow passwords (...) 3. Attempted su, neither root nor user password accepted You may have hit a bug. Obviously there is a bug. The question is it me or Debian? I noticed a problem with disabling shadow passwords some time back and I don't know if anyone has fixed it, as (ahem) I haven't gotten around to reporting it yet... For you I have such a deal. I've submitted a bug [693...@bugs.debian.org] on which you may comment. This will be especially useful if the problem has been observed in something later than version 6.0.5. I recall (maybe wrongly) figuring out that when shadow passwords were not enabled, installer still saved root password into shadow before disabling it, or something on those lines. I don't know. Though ~3 score and 10, this is my first foray into *nix. I could fix my installation at the time by going into single user mode and changing root password, after which it worked correctly. I don't understand that. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50a699cb.4010...@cloud85.net
Re: Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Hi, On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 01:53:47PM -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: Terho Uotila wrote: Unless you want to try very minimal system you probably want shadow passwords. I do not understand. Going by text displayed during the installation I had the impression that shadow passwords were for those overly paranoid about supposed incremental security advantages. My machines will effectively be the ultimate in single user systems. I will be the only one with physical access. They will have only occasional restricted access to the internet over a dial up connection. It is very unlikely that there will ever be a LAN among my machines. I do not see that Debian even claims that shadow passwords *could* be of any benefit to me ;/ 1. Use of shadow is almost standard these days. 2. If your are attacked while you are using user account to access internet, the use of shadow password gives you one thin but extra layer of protection to protect your root account after your user account is hacked. 3. Disabling shadow does not give you much speed or space. Configuring system to odd configuration is usually not good idea since it is tested less. On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:04:21 -0600 Richard Owlett wrote: 2. Did not enable shadow passwords (...) 3. Attempted su, neither root nor user password accepted You may have hit a bug. Obviously there is a bug. The question is it me or Debian? In this context, more likely Debian or its upstream. I noticed a problem with disabling shadow passwords some time back and I don't know if anyone has fixed it, as (ahem) I haven't gotten around to reporting it yet... For you I have such a deal. I've submitted a bug [693...@bugs.debian.org] on which you may comment. This will be especially useful if the problem has been observed in something later than version 6.0.5. I recall (maybe wrongly) figuring out that when shadow passwords were not enabled, installer still saved root password into shadow before disabling it, or something on those lines. I don't know. Though ~3 score and 10, this is my first foray into *nix. Welcome and if you are newbie, stay within safe area :-) Do not try to do something complicated before getting system understood. I could fix my installation at the time by going into single user mode and changing root password, after which it worked correctly. I don't understand that. I did not know this but passwd package ships command called shadowconfig. Use shadowconfig on. See man shadowconfig and /usr/share/doc/passwd/README.Debian for more. (If you installed from CD, you may alternatively reinstall system ...) By the way, we have some basics for use as: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ Good luck, Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121117073208.GA25050@goofy.localdomain
Password problem confirmed as repeatable - was [Re: Newbie password problem(s)]
Richard Owlett wrote: I've been doing a series of Debian installs over the last several months. YES. There are easier ways to do things. *BUT* my purpose is _educational_ rather than efficiency ;) I have a history of problems with the root password not being recognized. If the problem *DOES* occur on a individual install iteration , it *WILL* occur on *EVERY* cold boot and *EVERY* time a root password is required. If the problem *DOESN'T* occur on a individual install iteration , it *WILL NEVER* occur on *ANY* cold boot and *ANY* time a root password is required. Whether or not the problem appears is independent of: install media - LiveCD or purchased 8 DVD set target machine - Lenovo ThinkPad or Lenovo desktop On reinstall the problem may or may not occur independent of previous condition. The current problem iteration: A minimum CLI install on the desktop machine. A successful boot which accepted my user name and password. Attempted to use su command, would not accept either password. Successful apt-get install gdm3 using user password. Reboot resulted in expected GUI. Could not access either Root Terminal nor Synaptic from menu - password not accepted. When rebooting into Rescue Mode, the last two lines displayed are: sulogin: root account is locked, starting shell root@localhost:~# At this point I'm allowed to do apt-get install xyz - no password required. Comments, questions, suggestions? Notes on reinstall after having root password not recognized *AGAIN* Power off the machine Power up and chose DVD as boot device With Debian 6.0.5 DVD 1 of 8 in drive, select Graphical Expert Install from here on only entries when default entry NOT chosen 1. after network configuration failed due *NO* network existing chose Do not configure network at this time 2. Did not enable shadow passwords 3. Did not chose set clock using NTP 4. Set time zone to Central 5. Partitioning choices made Manual Delete *ALL* existing partitions Create a 20 GB primary partition at beginning of drive, format as Ext3, mount point / Create a 5 GB logical partition at end of drive for swap 6. Driver selection - Generic [I usually choose targeted] 7. Software selection - Chose ONLY Standard system utilities 8. Finish the installation - said clock not set to UTC 1st boot after install 1. User name and password accepted 2. Attempted sudo apt-get install gdm3 Received error message -bash: sudo: command not found 3. Attempted su, neither root nor user password accepted 4. Rebooted with CNTRL-ALT-DEL 5. Chose rescue mode 6. System appeared to start as expected The last three lines displayed on monitor are: Setting up console font and keymap...done.CRLF sulogin: root account is locked, starting shellCRLF root@debian:~# [9.683173] IBM TrackPoint firmware: 0x0e, buttons: 3/3 [9.892571] input: TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint as /devices/platform/i8042serio1/serio2/input/input10 I then hit ENTER receiving a new prompt of root@debian~# 7. Entered apt-get install gdm3, received a prompt of Do you want to continue [Y/n]? to which I responded with ENTER *NOTE BENE* NO PASSWORD(s) were requested or given after I started Rescue mode. 8. That process appeared to run to a normal finish. 9. Then entered apt-get install gedit gparted which also seemed to conclude normally. 10. Rebooted by typing exit 11. Received an apparently normal Gnome request for password which was accepted. 12. Attempted to run both root terminal and gparted, neither would recognize the root password. Re-did the above installation except chose Install when DVD booted. Every thing was the same through Step 2 under 1st boot after install. When entering su in step 3, the root password *WAS* accepted. Doing apt-get install gdm3 and apt-get install gedit gparted both proceeded to apparently normal finish. Typing exit returned me to the user prompt. I then rebooted using CNTRL-ALT-DEL. Attempting to run Root Terminal proceeded normally thru prompting and apparently accepting the root password. The terminal did not appear - I've had that happen before, apparently although the icon for Root Terminal appears in the Applications sub-menu, the underlying program is not installed. Gparted started without asking for a password while displaying the screen titled Granted permissions without asking for password. Confirmed my suspicion by powering down and rebooting. This time I started Gparted first [it did ask for root password] and then attempting to star Root Terminal. I received the screen titled Granted permissions without asking for password. The Root Terminal again DID NOT appear. Installing gnome-terminal with Synaptic caused Terminal to appear in Applications menu. Now both Root Terminal and Terminal are functional. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
