Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Steve McIntyre]

g...@wooledge.org wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 07:40:46AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>> 
>> I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
>> page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
>> account and don't recall what the process entailed.
>
>If I recall correctly, it used to be possible to create an account with
>the standard wiki mechanisms, but that was discontinued due to spammers
>abusing it.  So, those of us who happened to create an account in the
>early days got to do it the easy way, but now any new accounts need to
>be approved by the wiki admins.

Yup, that's exactly it. We used to cope with some scripts to do
auto-whitelisting, but the spammers got worse and worse. So now we
need to do manual approval. We try to be as responsive as possible to
new signup requests, and we normally respond within a few hours.

Not enough spammers on fire. :-(

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky,
Tongue-tied & twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I...

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Luna Jernberg]

It got delayed a year however:
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/08/ubuntu-23-10-wont-use-cups-snap

Den fre 25 aug. 2023 kl 19:27 skrev Jeffrey Walton :
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> A popular Debian-derived distro is preparing to change some printing
> components from *.deb packages to Snapd. That is going to cause
> trouble for users who remove Snapd, and still use *.deb packages. I
> expect some users will want to move from the other distro to Debian.
>
> Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
>  and .
>
> It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
> over the articles and provide corrections and updates.
>
> Jeff
>

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Peter Ehlert]

On 8/26/23 06:17, Peter Ehlert wrote:


On 8/25/23 13:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:17:25PM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:

I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
until now.
I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since
it's last edit on December 24,2019
Who does that?

You do.  That's what a wiki is.


"Account creation failed: Automatic account creation disabled to stop 
spammers signing up. Please contact w...@debian.org and describe what 
you want to do in the wiki. Please contact us in English, otherwise we 
will have to pass your message to online translation services.."


I sent the requested email, I will wait and see


I got a rapid reply from Steve McIntyre and have my new account created.

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 26 Aug 07:57 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 07:40:46AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > * On 2023 26 Aug 07:13 -0500, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > > Nate Bargmann  writes:
> > > 
> > > > This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> > > > but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> > > > have to figure out how to reset my password).
> > > 
> > > Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
> > > password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
> > > think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
> > > much so not that much to contribute.
> > 
> > I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
> > page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
> > account and don't recall what the process entailed.
> 
> If I recall correctly, it used to be possible to create an account with
> the standard wiki mechanisms, but that was discontinued due to spammers
> abusing it.  So, those of us who happened to create an account in the
> early days got to do it the easy way, but now any new accounts need to
> be approved by the wiki admins.

I think you're right.  Given the text I updated in my profile/Wiki home
page I'm guessing I created the account ten to fifteen years ago.  At
least Firefox still had the username stored with an expired password
otherwise I'd forgotten all about it!

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Description: PGP signature

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:29:02AM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:15 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:

[...]

> > The basic problem with popcon is that it is opt-in, and nobody
> > who is at all privacy conscious opts-in.
> >
> > (I fully support this decision. It is absolutely correct.)
> 
> A quick note with an opposing view... learning that I run libc or kde
> on my Debian machine reveals information with little to no value.

[...]

> Telling the Debian maintainers I run libc and kde benefits me and the
> community. Maintainers and developers learn where to allocate
> resources [...]

I think this is the wrong angle. Opt-in is a sign of respect 
towards the users -- whatever reasons the user has is actually
totally irrelevant. It might be privacy, it might be something
else.

This attitude is one of the things why I love Debian.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 10:15 AM Dan Ritter  wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > Popularity Contest (https://popcon.debian.org/) would be good to
> > consult. But it looks like something is sideways. It does not provide
> > usage statistics for packages like kde-full and gnome. I'm getting the
> > message, "No Popularity contest entry for kde-full" (and friends). I
> > use kde-full and I have popularity contest enabled, so there should be
> > at least one entry.
>
> The basic problem with popcon is that it is opt-in, and nobody
> who is at all privacy conscious opts-in.
>
> (I fully support this decision. It is absolutely correct.)

A quick note with an opposing view... learning that I run libc or kde
on my Debian machine reveals information with little to no value.
Speaking for myself, I am not concerned about a privacy leak in this
particular case.

Telling the Debian maintainers I run libc and kde benefits me and the
community. Maintainers and developers learn where to allocate
resources. I think it's worth the leak since it benefits the distro
and the community.

> The result is that when a popcon entry exists, it represents the
> people who have opted-in to popcon, who are (in my opinion):
>
> - new users
> - individual users (not organization)
> - laptop users
> - desktop users
>
> If you are looking at a package and wondering about large
> organizations or servers, it's probably a bad source of data.

If an organization does not wish to share, then that's their business.
It's not the first time a company takes but does not give back. It
won't be the last time.

> For this particular purpose, it's actually useful:
>
> #rank nameinst  vote   old recent no-files 
> (maintainer)
> 1 perl-base  219693 20327417 1636537 (Niko 
> Tyni)
> 2 libc6  219636 201427   609 1758119 (Gnu 
> Libc Maintainers)
>
> gnome-shell is the default window manager for GNOME:
>
> 738   gnome-shell53530 40495  4216  880415 (Debian 
> Gnome Maintainers)
>
> kwin is the KDE window manager, so it's more or less as popular as KDE.
>
> 1402  kwin-common22176 15401  3453  3315 7 (Debian 
> Qt/kde Maintainers)

Jeff

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Peter Ehlert]

On 8/25/23 13:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:17:25PM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:

I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
until now.
I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since
it's last edit on December 24,2019
Who does that?

You do.  That's what a wiki is.


"Account creation failed: Automatic account creation disabled to stop 
spammers signing up. Please contact w...@debian.org and describe what 
you want to do in the wiki. Please contact us in English, otherwise we 
will have to pass your message to online translation services.."


I sent the requested email, I will wait and see

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 07:40:46AM -0500, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2023 26 Aug 07:13 -0500, Anssi Saari wrote:
> > Nate Bargmann  writes:
> > 
> > > This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> > > but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> > > have to figure out how to reset my password).
> > 
> > Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
> > password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
> > think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
> > much so not that much to contribute.
> 
> I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
> page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
> account and don't recall what the process entailed.

If I recall correctly, it used to be possible to create an account with
the standard wiki mechanisms, but that was discontinued due to spammers
abusing it.  So, those of us who happened to create an account in the
early days got to do it the easy way, but now any new accounts need to
be approved by the wiki admins.

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 26 Aug 07:13 -0500, Anssi Saari wrote:
> Nate Bargmann  writes:
> 
> > This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> > but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> > have to figure out how to reset my password).
> 
> Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
> password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
> think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
> much so not that much to contribute.

I was able to successfully change my password and update my Wiki home
page a little while ago.  It has been a long time since I created the
account and don't recall what the process entailed.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Description: PGP signature

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Anssi Saari]

Nate Bargmann  writes:

> This Wiki is semi-private in that editing is not open to just everyone
> but may only be done through an account (apparently I have one and now
> have to figure out how to reset my password).

Good for you. I tried creating an account but after putting in name
password and email it says no, send email to w...@debian.org instead. I
think I'll pass. While I have KDE on one Debian machine, I don't use it
much so not that much to contribute.

Looks like some IP address bans in the wiki may have been lifted
recently or I was just lucky.

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 25 Aug 23:57 -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 3:50 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:26:29PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > > Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
> > >  and .
> > >
> > > It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
> > > over the articles and provide corrections and updates.

In order the help the OP since I apparently deleted this thread when it
started, the GNOME page looks reasonably accurate.  I do not have AMD
hardware so I cannot comment on that section.

The mouse cursor theme can be changed through the Tweaks GUI, but that
only takes effect once GNOME Shell actually starts and doesn't affect
gdm, as I understand it.

> > You're kinda asking the wrong crowd.  A significant portion of the
> > active posters on this mailing list use neither of those things.
> >
> > This probably explains the state of the wiki pages as well, if one
> > assumes that the users of this list correlate with the wiki editors
> > to a certain degree, at least in terms of desktop choices.
> 
> Yeah, it's hit or miss.
> 
> But I disagree with your assessment. I am proof by counter-example. I
> use KDE, and I've made some edits to the KDE article. I'm guessing
> there will be other folks on the list who could make edits. Or this is
> an extremely small list.

I've been a Debian user and member of this list for quite a long time,
since the late 1990s at least.  In all that time I don't recall the
Debian Project approaching this list requesting our assistance in
updating/maintaining the Wiki.  This Wiki is semi-private in that
editing is not open to just everyone but may only be done through an account
(apparently I have one and now have to figure out how to reset my
password).

The Wiki front page is rather adamant that addition of content to the
Wiki by everyone is welcome and desired.  In particular solutions are
provided on this list that should make it onto the Wiki.  I'm not
volunteering for that "job" but it is something we might all consider in
the future.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Tixy]

On Sat, 2023-08-26 at 00:55 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> I'm getting the
> message, "No Popularity contest entry for kde-full" (and friends). I
> use kde-full and I have popularity contest enabled, so there should be
> at least one entry.

Perhaps because they're metapackages?

-- 
Tixy

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 3:50 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:26:29PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
> >  and .
> >
> > It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
> > over the articles and provide corrections and updates.
>
> You're kinda asking the wrong crowd.  A significant portion of the
> active posters on this mailing list use neither of those things.
>
> This probably explains the state of the wiki pages as well, if one
> assumes that the users of this list correlate with the wiki editors
> to a certain degree, at least in terms of desktop choices.

Yeah, it's hit or miss.

But I disagree with your assessment. I am proof by counter-example. I
use KDE, and I've made some edits to the KDE article. I'm guessing
there will be other folks on the list who could make edits. Or this is
an extremely small list.

Popularity Contest (https://popcon.debian.org/) would be good to
consult. But it looks like something is sideways. It does not provide
usage statistics for packages like kde-full and gnome. I'm getting the
message, "No Popularity contest entry for kde-full" (and friends). I
use kde-full and I have popularity contest enabled, so there should be
at least one entry.

Jeff

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Bret Busby]

On 26/8/23 04:22, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:17:25PM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:

I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
until now.
I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since
it's last edit on December 24,2019
Who does that?


You do.  That's what a wiki is.



:)

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:17:25PM -0700, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
> https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
> until now.
> I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since
> it's last edit on December 24,2019
> Who does that?

You do.  That's what a wiki is.

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Peter Ehlert]

On August 25, 2023 12:49:44 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:


On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:26:29PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
 and .

It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
over the articles and provide corrections and updates.


You're kinda asking the wrong crowd.  A significant portion of the
active posters on this mailing list use neither of those things.

Probably true, but maybe there are a couple here.



This probably explains the state of the wiki pages as well, if one
assumes that the users of this list correlate with the wiki editors
to a certain degree, at least in terms of desktop choices.

I'm a Mate user, and I never thought to read
https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
until now.
I see no flaws but there are several things that should be updated since 
it's last edit on December 24,2019

Who does that?

Re: Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 01:26:29PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
>  and .
> 
> It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
> over the articles and provide corrections and updates.

You're kinda asking the wrong crowd.  A significant portion of the
active posters on this mailing list use neither of those things.

This probably explains the state of the wiki pages as well, if one
assumes that the users of this list correlate with the wiki editors
to a certain degree, at least in terms of desktop choices.

Please verify Gnome and KDE wiki articles for correctness

[Jeffrey Walton]

Hi Everyone,

A popular Debian-derived distro is preparing to change some printing
components from *.deb packages to Snapd. That is going to cause
trouble for users who remove Snapd, and still use *.deb packages. I
expect some users will want to move from the other distro to Debian.

Two of the wiki articles that will help with a migration to Debian are
 and .

It would be helpful if folks with Gnome and KDE experience would look
over the articles and provide corrections and updates.

Jeff