Re: Debian Jessie Postgres 9.4 connection problem

[Johann Spies]

Try pg_lsclusters to see which postgresql servers are running and listening
on which ports.

Regards
Johann



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Debian Jessie Postgres 9.4 connection problem

[Ramon Hofer]

Hi all

I am trying to setup a postgresql 9.4 database on Debian Jessie. It
worked well on testing with postgresql 9.6 from the repos and then I
already could connect with
$ sudo -u postgres psql

I would like to use Jessie but when I try the same on stable with
postgresql 9.4, this is what I get when I try to connect to the
database:

$ sudo -u postgres psql
psql: could not connect to server: No such file or directory
Is the server running locally and accepting
connections on Unix domain socket
"/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?

The service is started:

$ sudo service postgresql status
● postgresql.service - PostgreSQL RDBMS
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/postgresql.service; enabled)
   Active: active (exited) since Thu 2016-12-01 00:03:34 CET; 7min ago
 Main PID: 24644 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)

Dec 01 00:03:34 sru-ac-data systemd[1]: Started PostgreSQL RDBMS.
Dec 01 00:03:34 sru-ac-data systemd[1]: Started PostgreSQL RDBMS.


Do you know of any problems?
And what I could do to make it work?


Thanks for your answer!


Best regards,
Ramon

Re: install postgres 8.4

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 01:42:24PM +0100, Robert Bude wrote:
> but how i can install squeeze and are the packages in aktuell squeeze 
> mirrors ? and were to get squeeze mirror ? ;)

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianSqueeze

Squeeze is archived (no longer supported, even under "LTS"), so follow
the instructions on that wiki page to get packages from the squeeze
archive.

install postgres 8.4

[Robert Bude]

Hi, we want to install a postgres 8.4 server but can not find via 
apt-get in wheezy or jessie the packages.

How i can install a postgres 8.4 server with minimal effort ?

i do not want a detailed instruction only the short track ;)

eg.: install squeeze, install lts repo , and then you have postgres 8.4 
as package ?


but i dont find any package like postgresql-8.4 or so

on a running debian squeeze system we have

ii  postgresql-8.4  8.4.13-0squeeze1 
object-relational SQL database, version 8.4 server
ii  postgresql-client   8.4.13-0squeeze1 
front-end programs for PostgreSQL (supported version)
ii  postgresql-client-8.4   8.4.13-0squeeze1 
front-end programs for PostgreSQL 8.4
ii  postgresql-client-common113  
manager for multiple PostgreSQL client versions
ii  postgresql-common   113  
PostgreSQL database-cluster manager
ii  postgresql-contrib  8.4.13-0squeeze1 
additional facilities for PostgreSQL (supported version)
ii  postgresql-contrib-8.4  8.4.17-0squeeze1 
additional facilities for PostgreSQL


but how i can install squeeze and are the packages in aktuell squeeze 
mirrors ? and were to get squeeze mirror ? ;)

Re: [Postgres-xc-general] [SOLVED] Re: [GENERAL] cloning postgres-xc

[Koichi Suzuki]

Appreciate for very nice and interesting topics.
--
Koichi Suzuki


2013/2/13 Zenaan Harkness :
> [SOLVED]
>
> On 2/13/13, Michael Paquier  wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/13/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>>> > # this resulted in only 8.6MiB download just now,
>>> > # on an up-to-date pg.git repo.
>>
>> This quantity of data looks correct, half of it being due to the data in
>> doc-xc/.
>>
>> $ git remote set-branches --add master pgxc/master
>>> fatal: No such remote 'master'
>>
>> I am not a GIT specialist, but in order to get all the branches, do only
>> that:
>> git remote add -f pgxc git://
>> postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/postgres-xc/postgres-xc
>>
>> You will be able to see all the remote branches available with "git branch
>> -a"
>
> Bingo! Thank you very much. I ran git remote rm pgxc (rm my previous
> remote attempt), then ran your command.
> It appears that for some reason --tags option (possibly when combined
> with -m) causes a problem with fetching remote branches.
>
> Much appreciated,
> Zenaan
>
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> postgres-xc-gene...@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general


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Re: [Postgres-xc-general] [GENERAL] cloning postgres-xc

[Michael Paquier]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:

> On 2/13/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> > # this resulted in only 8.6MiB download just now,
> > # on an up-to-date pg.git repo.
>
This quantity of data looks correct, half of it being due to the data in
doc-xc/.

$ git remote set-branches --add master pgxc/master
> fatal: No such remote 'master'
>

I am not a GIT specialist, but in order to get all the branches, do only
that:
git remote add -f pgxc git://
postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/postgres-xc/postgres-xc

You will be able to see all the remote branches available with "git branch
-a"
In this case, remote branches will be listed as remotes/pgxc/master,
remotes/pgxc/REL1_0_STABLE, or whatever.

Then checkout a branch, here master, with that:
git branch --track pgxc-master pgxc/master
git checkout pgxc-master
This will create a branch called pgxc-master set to track the remote PGXC
master branch when doing a git pull on this branch. Replace pgxc-master by
the name you wish.
-- 
Michael

[SOLVED] Re: [Postgres-xc-general] [GENERAL] cloning postgres-xc

[Zenaan Harkness]

[SOLVED]

On 2/13/13, Michael Paquier  wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>
>> On 2/13/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>> > # this resulted in only 8.6MiB download just now,
>> > # on an up-to-date pg.git repo.
>
> This quantity of data looks correct, half of it being due to the data in
> doc-xc/.
>
> $ git remote set-branches --add master pgxc/master
>> fatal: No such remote 'master'
>
> I am not a GIT specialist, but in order to get all the branches, do only
> that:
> git remote add -f pgxc git://
> postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/postgres-xc/postgres-xc
>
> You will be able to see all the remote branches available with "git branch
> -a"

Bingo! Thank you very much. I ran git remote rm pgxc (rm my previous
remote attempt), then ran your command.
It appears that for some reason --tags option (possibly when combined
with -m) causes a problem with fetching remote branches.

Much appreciated,
Zenaan


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Re: [GENERAL] cloning postgres-xc

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 2/13/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> Here's what I just tried:
>
> cd postgresql.git/
> git remote add -f --tags -m master pgxc
> git://postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/postgres-xc/postgres-xc

Please note, the above two lines should be one, forgot to manually format sorry.

> # this resulted in only 8.6MiB download just now,
> # on an up-to-date pg.git repo.
>
> #view results:
> git remote -v
> git branch -a
>
> In my case, remotes/pgxc/HEAD is the only pgxc 'branch' so it appears
> I'm not quite doing something right. Looking at the repo summary page
> at:
> http://postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=postgres-xc/postgres-xc;a=summary
> suggests that there are a number of 'heads' which I assume are branches.
> My ~/.gitconfig only has user name and email, so nothing there should
> be stopping the branches from being downloaded.
>
> I guess I'm missing something in my command above. From my reading of
> man git-remote it should do the trick...
>
> Anyone know what's wrong with it?

I just tried the following:

$ git remote set-branches --add master pgxc/master
fatal: No such remote 'master'

??


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Re: [GENERAL] cloning postgres-xc

[Zenaan Harkness]

Here's what I just tried:

cd postgresql.git/
git remote add -f --tags -m master pgxc
git://postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/postgres-xc/postgres-xc
# this resulted in only 8.6MiB download just now,
# on an up-to-date pg.git repo.

#view results:
git remote -v
git branch -a

In my case, remotes/pgxc/HEAD is the only pgxc 'branch' so it appears
I'm not quite doing something right. Looking at the repo summary page
at:
http://postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=postgres-xc/postgres-xc;a=summary
suggests that there are a number of 'heads' which I assume are branches.
My ~/.gitconfig only has user name and email, so nothing there should
be stopping the branches from being downloaded.

I guess I'm missing something in my command above. From my reading of
man git-remote it should do the trick...

Anyone know what's wrong with it?

TIA
Zenaan


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Re: [GENERAL] cloning postgres-xc

[Zenaan Harkness]

fyi..

-- Forwarded message --
From: Michael Paquier
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 12:59:54 +0900

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:

> Does somone know the object overlap likely between pg and pgxc
> repositories?
>
> I ask because I could just git clone pgxc, or I could add a remote for
> pgxc to my pg git clone, and make sure the branches are added, and
> fetch that remote.
> And in this way, common files/ objects are properly shared in one
> repo, rather than duplicated.
>
PG and PGXC share 99.9% of a common commit history, so yes simply adding a
remote to PGXC in your existing PG folder is good. This is how I do for my
own dev, and I believe that most of the people in this project do the same.
Doing that is particularly helpful when you want to merge PG code directly
in XC or when you need to have a look at the code diffs between both
projects.
-- 
Michael


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{solved} Re: postgres fails to start

[kuLa]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 12/07/11 12:36, kuLa wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm having crazy problem which I can't solve.
> Basically I have 12 sets (master + slave) of postgres on Lenny. Master
> is shipping WAL files into slaves where they are applied. Easy pesy
> works perfectly, except 1 set where I even can't bring up postgres on slave.

well, to make long story short, 32bit bits won't work in 64bit
environment caused by one of my colleagues who didn't fallow build
procedure (segfault was the clue)
btw thx for reply to Jude
- -- 

|_|0|_|  |
|_|_|0| "Heghlu'Meh QaQ jajVam"  |
|0|0|0|  kuLa -  |

gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0xC100B4CA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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=1SUH
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: postgres fails to start

[Jude DaShiell]

If each slave is on its own drive, the problem slave may be on a 
corrupted drive.  If the corruption happens in the right place on that 
drive that would probably explain your difficulty.

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011, kuLa wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi all,
> I'm having crazy problem which I can't solve.
> Basically I have 12 sets (master + slave) of postgres on Lenny. Master
> is shipping WAL files into slaves where they are applied. Easy pesy
> works perfectly, except 1 set where I even can't bring up postgres on slave.
> Info I'm receiving is:
> 
> Starting PostgreSQL 8.3 database server: mainError: Could not parse
> locale out of pg_controldata output failed!
> 
> which is fair enough specially when I'm running:
> 
> /usr/lib/postgresql/8.3/bin/pg_controldata [my data dir]
> 
> i have only following info:
> 
> WARNING: Calculated CRC checksum does not match value stored in file.
> Either the file is corrupt, or it has a different layout than this program
> is expecting.  The results below are untrustworthy.
> Segmentation fault
> 
> but when doing that on other slaves I have proper output.
> As I have no idea what's wrong with this set up any hints/ideas are welcome.
> - -- 
> 
> |_|0|_|  |
> |_|_|0| "Heghlu'Meh QaQ jajVam"  |
> |0|0|0|  kuLa -  |
> 
> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0xC100B4CA
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOHDHIAAoJEOqHloDBALTKV3cH/39+rj6Ey8IP0O5ZtLW4Bj9J
> jDKflOEk9dvQrSRBckCLo/yuVkO8qzOexvyolgTeMHon4koieOc50lgGLLr86+5B
> kUQKYDVnKTKVyyugAIzeozD+/HcjrcQi9i1/Qfw2pAxZQ/dLDv3BwR6635ZbXWiE
> 3QlA42lCwSjK8DHW50uPK7w4l8ZNe8PL+jN96HOPUX/PjPPyGdFZqMiZeEcUOW07
> 7K8HZaVvx0V5xB6zyGI7FV0ReM6pKbmB7p7ABmwmvXwXoTQ+6W1qdYFGGmXDBaqo
> BjscEoIgDYhTa02Rq/SEjKtTnTlR9kH+2BRlI+7gFPLn5r+FF8Xmrwrc0F0pRds=
> =5MPf
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 



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postgres fails to start

[kuLa]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,
I'm having crazy problem which I can't solve.
Basically I have 12 sets (master + slave) of postgres on Lenny. Master
is shipping WAL files into slaves where they are applied. Easy pesy
works perfectly, except 1 set where I even can't bring up postgres on slave.
Info I'm receiving is:

Starting PostgreSQL 8.3 database server: mainError: Could not parse
locale out of pg_controldata output failed!

which is fair enough specially when I'm running:

/usr/lib/postgresql/8.3/bin/pg_controldata [my data dir]

i have only following info:

WARNING: Calculated CRC checksum does not match value stored in file.
Either the file is corrupt, or it has a different layout than this program
is expecting.  The results below are untrustworthy.
Segmentation fault

but when doing that on other slaves I have proper output.
As I have no idea what's wrong with this set up any hints/ideas are welcome.
- -- 

|_|0|_|  |
|_|_|0| "Heghlu'Meh QaQ jajVam"  |
|0|0|0|  kuLa -  |

gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0xC100B4CA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOHDHIAAoJEOqHloDBALTKV3cH/39+rj6Ey8IP0O5ZtLW4Bj9J
jDKflOEk9dvQrSRBckCLo/yuVkO8qzOexvyolgTeMHon4koieOc50lgGLLr86+5B
kUQKYDVnKTKVyyugAIzeozD+/HcjrcQi9i1/Qfw2pAxZQ/dLDv3BwR6635ZbXWiE
3QlA42lCwSjK8DHW50uPK7w4l8ZNe8PL+jN96HOPUX/PjPPyGdFZqMiZeEcUOW07
7K8HZaVvx0V5xB6zyGI7FV0ReM6pKbmB7p7ABmwmvXwXoTQ+6W1qdYFGGmXDBaqo
BjscEoIgDYhTa02Rq/SEjKtTnTlR9kH+2BRlI+7gFPLn5r+FF8Xmrwrc0F0pRds=
=5MPf
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: removing postgres

[Sthu Deus]

Thank You for Your time and answer, Jochen:

> Ok, so the installed package is broken. What message do you get when
> you try to reinstall that package?

Well. I have installed again:

postgresql-client-common
postgresql-common

, did change ownership (user and group to postgres) of my cluster and
this did the trick. Now I have working postgresql server! Therefore we
can finish here.
 
> As a brute-force method, you could edit the file
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.3.prerm and insert 'exit 0' in the
> second line or so.

Thank You again for the interesting work around!


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Re: removing postgres

[Jochen Schulz]

Sthu Deus:
> Jochen:
>> 
>> Why do you use dpkg for that? Have you tried apt-get or aptitude? I
>> guess they will do what you want to achieve.
>> 
>> J.
> 
> I've tried that already. Please check this:
> 
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   postgresql-8.3 [8.3.11-0lenny1]  postgresql-client-8.3
> [8.3.12-0lenny1] 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove
> and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 20.8MB
> ...
> Removing postgresql-8.3 ...
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.3.prerm: line
> 17: /usr/share/postgresql-common/maintscripts-functions: No such file
> or directory

Ok, so the installed package is broken. What message do you get when you
try to reinstall that package?

As a brute-force method, you could edit the file
/var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.3.prerm and insert 'exit 0' in the
second line or so.

J.
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Re: removing postgres

[Sthu Deus]

Thank You for Your time and answer, Jochen:

> Sthu Deus:
> > 
> > I can not remove the following:
> > 
> > $ sudo /usr/bin/dpkg -r postgresql-8.3 postgresql-client-8.3
> 
> Why do you use dpkg for that? Have you tried apt-get or aptitude? I
> guess they will do what you want to achieve.
> 
> J.

I've tried that already. Please check this:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  postgresql-8.3 [8.3.11-0lenny1]  postgresql-client-8.3
[8.3.12-0lenny1] 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove
and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 20.8MB
...
Removing postgresql-8.3 ...
/var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.3.prerm: line
17: /usr/share/postgresql-common/maintscripts-functions: No such file
or directory dpkg: error processing postgresql-8.3 (--remove):
subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 dpkg:
postgresql-client-8.3: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you
request: postgresql-8.3 depends on postgresql-client-8.3. Removing
postgresql-client-8.3 ... /var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-client-8.3.prerm:
line 8: /usr/share/postgresql-common/maintscripts-functions: No such
file or directory dpkg: error processing postgresql-client-8.3
(--remove): subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status
1 /var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-client-8.3.postinst: line
5: /usr/share/postgresql-common/maintscripts-functions: No such file or
directory dpkg: error while cleaning up: subprocess post-installation
script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while
processing: postgresql-8.3 postgresql-client-8.3
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
A package failed to install.  Trying to recover:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Reading extended state information
Initializing package states... Done
Reading task descriptions... Done


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Re: removing postgres

[Sthu Deus]

Thank You for Your time and answer, Javier:

> aptitude reinstall postgresql-client-8.3 postgresql-8.3
> aptitude remove postgresql-client-8.3 postgresql-8.3

I have tried already that method and I got the same problem. - Some
install script complains about failure on some option start. - Actually
this is the very reason why I remove postgres - I need it, but it
is of no worth to me as long as it does not work - it just takes my
disc space.


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Re: removing postgres

[Jochen Schulz]

Sthu Deus:
> 
> I can not remove the following:
> 
> $ sudo /usr/bin/dpkg -r postgresql-8.3 postgresql-client-8.3

Why do you use dpkg for that? Have you tried apt-get or aptitude? I
guess they will do what you want to achieve.

J.
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Re: removing postgres

[Javier Barroso]

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Sthu Deus  wrote:
> Good day.
>
> I can not remove the following:
>
> $ sudo /usr/bin/dpkg -r postgresql-8.3 postgresql-client-8.3
> Removing postgresql-8.3 ...
> /var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.3.prerm: line
> 17: /usr/share/postgresql-common/maintscripts-functions: No such file
> or directory dpkg: error processing postgresql-8.3 (--remove):
> subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 dpkg:
> dependency problems prevent removal of postgresql-client-8.3:
> postgresql-8.3 depends on postgresql-client-8.3. dpkg: error processing
> postgresql-client-8.3 (--remove): dependency problems - not removing
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  postgresql-8.3
>  postgresql-client-8.3
>
> Is there a way I can perform this? (Or it is just my destiny - to live
> w/ it? :)
Try reinstalling and uninstalling:

aptitude reinstall postgresql-client-8.3 postgresql-8.3
aptitude remove postgresql-client-8.3 postgresql-8.3

Regards,


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removing postgres

[Sthu Deus]

Good day.

I can not remove the following:

$ sudo /usr/bin/dpkg -r postgresql-8.3 postgresql-client-8.3
Removing postgresql-8.3 ...
/var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.3.prerm: line
17: /usr/share/postgresql-common/maintscripts-functions: No such file
or directory dpkg: error processing postgresql-8.3 (--remove):
subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 dpkg:
dependency problems prevent removal of postgresql-client-8.3:
postgresql-8.3 depends on postgresql-client-8.3. dpkg: error processing
postgresql-client-8.3 (--remove): dependency problems - not removing
Errors were encountered while processing:
 postgresql-8.3
 postgresql-client-8.3

Is there a way I can perform this? (Or it is just my destiny - to live
w/ it? :)

Thank You for Your time.


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Re: Postgres server does not start.

[Sthu Deus]

Thank You for Your time and answer, debu...@acrasis.net:

>On 2010-01-31 13:43, Sthu Deus wrote:
>> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 LOG:  could not bind IPv4 socket: Address already 
>> in use
>> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 HINT: Is another postmaster already
>> running on port 5432? If not, wait a few seconds and retry.
>> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 WARNING:  could not create listen socket for 
>> "localhost"
>> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 FATAL:  could not create any TCP/IP sockets
>
>Most likely the cluster 'main' is already listening on port 5432.  Try
>configuring either 'main' or 'mine' to listen on another port, say
>5433, by editing the cluster's postgresql.conf.

Yes, it did the trick w/ changing socket dir. to /tmp. And it works, still, I'm 
sure, I did not change it. Weird it went this way.


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Re: Postgres server does not start.

[debuser]

On 2010-01-31 13:43, Sthu Deus wrote:
> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 LOG:  could not bind IPv4 socket: Address already 
> in use
> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 HINT: Is another postmaster already
> running on port 5432? If not, wait a few seconds and retry.
> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 WARNING:  could not create listen socket for 
> "localhost"
> 2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 FATAL:  could not create any TCP/IP sockets

Most likely the cluster 'main' is already listening on port 5432.  Try
configuring either 'main' or 'mine' to listen on another port, say
5433, by editing the cluster's postgresql.conf.
-- 
Nick


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Postgres server does not start.

[Sthu Deus]

Good day.


Please, help me to run my postgres DB.

Here is problem description.

I have 2 instances in /var/lib/postgresql/8.3:

main
mine

When I start postgres server w/ command:

/etc/init.d/postgresql-8.3 start

I get:

Starting PostgreSQL 8.3 database server: main mineThe PostgreSQL server failed 
to start. Please check the log output. failed!
 failed!

In the appropriate logs I have:

for the main:

2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 LOG:  could not load root certificate file 
"root.crt": no SSL error reported
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 DETAIL:  Will not verify client certificates.
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 LOG:  test message did not get through on socket for 
statistics collector
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 LOG:  disabling statistics collector for lack of 
working socket
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 WARNING:  autovacuum not started because of 
misconfiguration
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 HINT:  Enable the "track_counts" option.
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 LOG:  database system was shut down at 2010-01-31 
13:10:52 GMT-7
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 LOG:  incomplete startup packet
2010-01-31 13:31:00 GMT-7 LOG:  database system is ready to accept connections

and for the mine:

2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 LOG:  could not load root certificate file 
"root.crt": no SSL error reported
2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 DETAIL:  Will not verify client certificates.
2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 LOG:  could not bind IPv4 socket: Address already in 
use
2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 HINT:  Is another postmaster already running on port 
5432? If not, wait a few seconds and retry.
2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 WARNING:  could not create listen socket for 
"localhost"
2010-01-31 13:31:03 GMT-7 FATAL:  could not create any TCP/IP sockets

So, I can not connect to the databases from "mine".
From the logs I do understand that "mine" have a concurrency w/ the "main" - 
but I did not change postgres configuration - as far as I remember, - and since 
I installed postgres I used both - main and mine - w/o any concurrency.

So, what is wrong? Or how I can fix it?


PS Reading of the install and run chapters of the postgres documentation gave 
me no ideas, as well as searching on Internet - relating to my problem.

Thanks for Your time.

PS Please, reply to the list.


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Re: apt-get upgrade... and now postgres 7.4 won't start!

[Eugene V. Lyubimkin]

will trillich wrote:
> on debian 4.0, apt-get update && apt-get upgrade led to a problem
> where postgres 7 won't start! apparently utility program
> "pg_controldata" is supposed to generate some locale-info that's
> parsed by perl script "pg_ctlcluster", and the two suddenly don't jibe
> at all--
[snip]
> The PostgreSQL server failed to start. Please check the log output:
> /usr/lib/postgresql/7.4/bin/postmaster: could not find the database system
> Expected to find it in the directory "/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main",
> but could not open file
> "/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main/global/pg_control": No such file or
> directory
> """
> 
> there *is* a pg_control.gz file there, which contains "[] "...?
> 
> ideas?
File a bug, and wait for maintainers' comments.

-- 
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Ukrainian C++ Developer, Debian Maintainer, APT contributor



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apt-get upgrade... and now postgres 7.4 won't start!

[will trillich]

on debian 4.0, apt-get update && apt-get upgrade led to a problem
where postgres 7 won't start! apparently utility program
"pg_controldata" is supposed to generate some locale-info that's
parsed by perl script "pg_ctlcluster", and the two suddenly don't jibe
at all--

argh:

"""
Setting up postgresql-7.4 (7.4.23-0etch1) ...
Starting PostgreSQL 7.4 database server: mainpg_controldata: could not
open file "/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main/global/pg_control" for
reading: No such file or directory
Error: Could not parse locale out of pg_controldata output
 failed!
invoke-rc.d: initscript postgresql-7.4, action "start" failed.
dpkg: error processing postgresql-7.4 (--configure):
 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
"""

trying /etc/init.d/postgresql-7.4 start -- we traced the process where
the trouble occurs to perl script "pg_ctlcluster":

# perl -Td `which pg_ctlcluster ` 7.4 main start

after some stepping and nexting, we get to here:

pg_controldata: could not open file
"/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main/global/pg_control" for reading: No such
file or directory
PgCommon::get_cluster_locales(/usr/share/postgresql-common/PgCommon.pm:707):
707:restore_exec;

   DB<2> v
704:prepare_exec ('LC_ALL', 'LANG', 'LANGUAGE');
705:$ENV{'LC_ALL'} = 'C';
[B]706:my $result = open (CTRL, '-|', $pg_controldata,
(cluster_data_directory $version, $cluster));
[/B]707==>  restore_exec;
708:return (undef, undef) unless defined $result;
709:while () {
710:if (/^LC_CTYPE\W*(\S+)\s*$/) {
711:$lc_ctype = $1;
712 } elsif (/^LC_COLLATE\W*(\S+)\s*$/) {
713:$lc_collate = $1;

the problem is in line 706 -- open(filehandle, mode, file) -- the mode
is "-|" meaning that "file" is really a command that generates output
that's piping to our perl process... but $pg_controldata isn't playing
nice:

/usr/lib/postgresql/7.4/bin/pg_controldata /var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main
pg_controldata: could not open file
"/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main/global/pg_control" for reading: No such
file or directory

therein lies the rub. suggestions are welcome!

===

also, if i 'cheat' and manually inject $lc_type = 'C' around line 709,
then the result is only slightly different:

"""
The PostgreSQL server failed to start. Please check the log output:
/usr/lib/postgresql/7.4/bin/postmaster: could not find the database system
Expected to find it in the directory "/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main",
but could not open file
"/var/lib/postgresql/7.4/main/global/pg_control": No such file or
directory
"""

there *is* a pg_control.gz file there, which contains "[] "...?

ideas?

--
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Less is only more where more is no good. -- Frank Lloyd Wright


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Re: Another problem Postgresql: createdb: could not connect to database postgres: could not connect to server: No such file or directory

[NN_il_Confusionario]

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 10:45:46AM +0530, Jaisen N.D. wrote:
> I have another problem with postgresql 8.1.
> initdb: directory "/var/lib/postgresql/data" exists but is not empty
> If you want to create a new database system, either remove or empty
> the directory "/var/lib/postgresql/data" or run initdb
> with an argument other than "/var/lib/postgresql/data".

I you cannot do what the above suggests, explain why.

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Another problem Postgresql: createdb: could not connect to database postgres: could not connect to server: No such file or directory

[Jaisen N.D.]

I have another problem with postgresql 8.1. I have uninstalled the
postgresql-8.3 and removed its configuration files, and the user postgres
also. Then installed postgresql-8.1. But when I started to create a
database, it shows some message like this..
Here is the output I got:-
-
localhost:/home/user# su - postgres
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1/bin/initdb -D
/var/lib/postgresql/data
The files belonging to this database system will be owned by user
"postgres".
This user must also own the server process.

The database cluster will be initialized with locale en_IN.
The default database encoding has accordingly been set to UTF8.

initdb: directory "/var/lib/postgresql/data" exists but is not empty
If you want to create a new database system, either remove or empty
the directory "/var/lib/postgresql/data" or run initdb
with an argument other than "/var/lib/postgresql/data".
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1/bin/pg_ctl -D
/var/lib/postgresql/data -l logfile start
postmaster starting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1/bin/createdb test
createdb: could not connect to database postgres: could not connect to
server: No such file or directory
Is the server running locally and accepting
connections on Unix domain socket
"/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$
-
Why it can't connect to server? How can I resolve it??


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could not connect to database postgres: could not connect to server

[Jaisen N.D.]

I have another problem with postgresql 8.1. I have uninstalled the
postgresql-8.3 and removed its configuration files, and the user postgres
also. Then installed postgresql-8.1. But when I started to create a
database, it shows some message like this..
Here is the output I got:-
-
localhost:/home/user# su - postgres
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1/bin/initdb -D
/var/lib/postgresql/data
The files belonging to this database system will be owned by user
"postgres".
This user must also own the server process.

The database cluster will be initialized with locale en_IN.
The default database encoding has accordingly been set to UTF8.

initdb: directory "/var/lib/postgresql/data" exists but is not empty
If you want to create a new database system, either remove or empty
the directory "/var/lib/postgresql/data" or run initdb
with an argument other than "/var/lib/postgresql/data".
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1/bin/pg_ctl -D
/var/lib/postgresql/data -l logfile start
postmaster starting
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1/bin/createdb test
createdb: could not connect to database postgres: could not connect to
server: No such file or directory
Is the server running locally and accepting
connections on Unix domain socket
"/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$
-
Why it can't connect to server? How can I resolve it??

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problem with pgadmin3 and postgres 8.3

[Alex Samad]

Hi

It seems like the older version of pgadmin3 don't play well with
postgres 8.3. The postgres people suggest (recommend) using version 1.8.

But it seems like we can't have version 1.8 or anything greater than
version 1.4 because wxwidgets isn't being maintained (well that is to say
that the current maintainer doesn't want to go to version 2.8)

Are there other people having this problem ?  This is another package I
am using that has been affected by wxwidgets

alex

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Re: postgres install fails on sid

[Andy Smith]

Hi John,

On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 06:05:42PM +, John Masters wrote:
> I've chmod 666 /dev/null and now postgres installs OK. However I
> hesitate to go further as this server is on a VPS. Could that be why the
> perms were not set properly?

I can think of no reason why anyone would provision a server of any
sort with a /dev/null that is a regular file, so I suspect a mistake
somewhere.  Also I suspect it has not been in that state for a long
time, as so many things redirect their output to /dev/null that it
would quickly grow to fill the filesystem.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: postgres install fails on sid

[John Masters]

On 19:14 Sun 07 Oct , Florian Kulzer wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 16:35:44 +, John Masters wrote:
> > On 16:04 Sun 07 Oct, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > > On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 13:49:11 +, John Masters wrote:
> > > > I have posted this to the Postgres list also.
> > > > 
> > > > Cannot get Postgres 8.2 working on Debian sid using the Debian package.
> > > > At the config stage I get a message telling me to run:-
> > > > 
> > > > pg_createcluster 8.2 main --start
> > > > 
> > > I would start with the first problem that is reported: "sh: /dev/null:
> > > Permission denied". What are the permissions of the /dev/null node on
> > > your system? It should be writable by anyone:
> > > 
> > > $ ls -l /dev/null
> > > crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2007-10-07 14:28 /dev/null
> > > 
> > Thanks, that seems to be the problem. permissions for /dev/null 
> > are -rw-r--r--
> > 
> > What is the c part of the permissions and how do you set it? I have
> > googled and searched my books but all I can find is that it is a
> > character device file but no mention of how to set the attribute.
> 
> The "c" means that it is a special file to begin with; you cannot just
> set this property for an existing normal file. Such special files used
> to be created with the "mknod" command, but nowadays udev should take
> care of their creation.
> 
> > Would it be OK to just chmod 666? 
> 
> The permission error will probably be gone then, but it would still be a
> normal file and not a real /dev/null, which is used to dump the output
> of all sorts of commands that are called in scripts. (The job of
> /dev/null is to swallow input without a trace.)
> 
> 
I've chmod 666 /dev/null and now postgres installs OK. However I
hesitate to go further as this server is on a VPS. Could that be why the
perms were not set properly? I have been running this server for about 3
weeks just with a basic mail setup - Postfix/Courier/Procmail passing
all mail through Spamassassin on another server, so some of the obvious
spam I have been sending to /dev/null which seems to work. I am
unfamiliar with the deployment of VPS's, I just use them, so I assume
this should have been setup when the VPS was created.

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Re: postgres install fails on sid

[Florian Kulzer]

On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 16:35:44 +, John Masters wrote:
> On 16:04 Sun 07 Oct, Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 13:49:11 +, John Masters wrote:
> > > I have posted this to the Postgres list also.
> > > 
> > > Cannot get Postgres 8.2 working on Debian sid using the Debian package.
> > > At the config stage I get a message telling me to run:-
> > > 
> > > pg_createcluster 8.2 main --start
> > > 
> > > Doing this (as root) produces the following output:-
> > > 
> > > Creating new cluster (configuration: /etc/postgresql/8.2/main, \
> > > data: /var/lib/postgresql/8.2/main)...
> > > sh: /dev/null: Permission denied
> > 
> > I would start with the first problem that is reported: "sh: /dev/null:
> > Permission denied". What are the permissions of the /dev/null node on
> > your system? It should be writable by anyone:
> > 
> > $ ls -l /dev/null
> > crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2007-10-07 14:28 /dev/null
> > 
> Thanks, that seems to be the problem. permissions for /dev/null 
> are -rw-r--r--
> 
> What is the c part of the permissions and how do you set it? I have
> googled and searched my books but all I can find is that it is a
> character device file but no mention of how to set the attribute.

The "c" means that it is a special file to begin with; you cannot just
set this property for an existing normal file. Such special files used
to be created with the "mknod" command, but nowadays udev should take
care of their creation.

> Would it be OK to just chmod 666? 

The permission error will probably be gone then, but it would still be a
normal file and not a real /dev/null, which is used to dump the output
of all sorts of commands that are called in scripts. (The job of
/dev/null is to swallow input without a trace.)

I would remove (or rename) the file and run 

udevtrigger

as root, followed by 

echo "xxx" > /dev/null

That should force udev to create the device node. Afterwards you should
see this:

$ file /dev/null
/dev/null: character special (1/3)

If that does not work then something is wrong with your udev
configuration. The first thing to check is if the relevant rules exist:

$ grep null /etc/udev/*
/etc/udev/links.conf:M null c   1 3
/etc/udev/permissions.rules:KERNEL=="null", MODE="0666"

If all else fails then you could try to create the device node yourself
(as root):

mknod -m 0666 /dev/null c 1 3

However, if udev is active it will normally intercept this command and
redirect the device node creation to /dev/.static/dev/null (AFAIK).

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Re: postgres install fails on sid

[John Masters]

On 16:04 Sun 07 Oct , Florian Kulzer wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 13:49:11 +, John Masters wrote:
> > I have posted this to the Postgres list also.
> > 
> > Cannot get Postgres 8.2 working on Debian sid using the Debian package.
> > At the config stage I get a message telling me to run:-
> > 
> > pg_createcluster 8.2 main --start
> > 
> > Doing this (as root) produces the following output:-
> > 
> > Creating new cluster (configuration: /etc/postgresql/8.2/main, \
> > data: /var/lib/postgresql/8.2/main)...
> > sh: /dev/null: Permission denied
> 
> I would start with the first problem that is reported: "sh: /dev/null:
> Permission denied". What are the permissions of the /dev/null node on
> your system? It should be writable by anyone:
> 
> $ ls -l /dev/null
> crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2007-10-07 14:28 /dev/null
> 
Thanks, that seems to be the problem. permissions for /dev/null 
are -rw-r--r--

What is the c part of the permissions and how do you set it? I have
googled and searched my books but all I can find is that it is a
character device file but no mention of how to set the attribute.
Would it be OK to just chmod 666?

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Re: postgres install fails on sid

[Florian Kulzer]

On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 13:49:11 +, John Masters wrote:
> I have posted this to the Postgres list also.
> 
> Cannot get Postgres 8.2 working on Debian sid using the Debian package.
> At the config stage I get a message telling me to run:-
> 
> pg_createcluster 8.2 main --start
> 
> Doing this (as root) produces the following output:-
> 
> Creating new cluster (configuration: /etc/postgresql/8.2/main, \
> data: /var/lib/postgresql/8.2/main)...
> sh: /dev/null: Permission denied
> fgets failure: Success
> The program "postgres" is needed by initdb but was not found in the
> same directory as "/usr/lib/postgresql/8.2/bin/initdb".
> Check your installation.
> Error: initdb failed
> 
> But the program postgres IS in the same directory as initdb
> 
> 8.1 installed OK on my Etch server so I tried that on sid
> Same result
> 
> Anyone any ideas?

I would start with the first problem that is reported: "sh: /dev/null:
Permission denied". What are the permissions of the /dev/null node on
your system? It should be writable by anyone:

$ ls -l /dev/null
crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 2007-10-07 14:28 /dev/null

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postgres install fails on sid

[John Masters]

I have posted this to the Postgres list also.

Cannot get Postgres 8.2 working on Debian sid using the Debian package.
At the config stage I get a message telling me to run:-

pg_createcluster 8.2 main --start

Doing this (as root) produces the following output:-

Creating new cluster (configuration: /etc/postgresql/8.2/main, \
data: /var/lib/postgresql/8.2/main)...
sh: /dev/null: Permission denied
fgets failure: Success
The program "postgres" is needed by initdb but was not found in the
same directory as "/usr/lib/postgresql/8.2/bin/initdb".
Check your installation.
Error: initdb failed

But the program postgres IS in the same directory as initdb

8.1 installed OK on my Etch server so I tried that on sid
Same result

Anyone any ideas?

Any pointers would be very welcome
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Re: [GENERAL] postgres upgrade

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 09:36:45AM -0400, Tom Allison wrote:
> I'm trying to upgrade from 8.1 to 8.2.
> 
> Apparently the upgrade I just ran through installed a second database  
> on my server.
> 
> I was hoping that the debian configuration would migrate this for me.
> I recall there was once a time when it would ask you about moving  
> data from old to new databases.  Is there some way I can do that?

Debian has pg_upgradecluster which will migrate from the old version to
the new version. Once migrated you can uninstall 8.1.

Have a nice day,
-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://svana.org/kleptog/
> From each according to his ability. To each according to his ability to 
> litigate.


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Re: [GENERAL] postgres upgrade

[Ray Stell]

On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 09:36:45AM -0400, Tom Allison wrote:
> Meanwhile, can I just use pg_dumpall to pull from 8.1 and then reload  
> into 8.2?


http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ.html#item3.6


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postgres upgrade

[Tom Allison]

I'm trying to upgrade from 8.1 to 8.2.

Apparently the upgrade I just ran through installed a second database  
on my server.


I was hoping that the debian configuration would migrate this for me.
I recall there was once a time when it would ask you about moving  
data from old to new databases.  Is there some way I can do that?


Meanwhile, can I just use pg_dumpall to pull from 8.1 and then reload  
into 8.2?



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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/03/07 12:26, David Baron wrote:
> OK, I withdraw the question. Will find useful answers elsewhere or stay with 
> OpenOffice's DB (as I said, not all that bad!).
> 
> The flame war has gotten too ugly. I think we can argue about the merits of 
> one of the other programs with a bit more common courtesy and civility and 
> end the discussion as some point when nothing new is being contributed.

Maybe no one here uses OOo Base with PostgreSQL.

I use PostgreSQL, but only from the bash prompt, using psql and
python.  In fact, I think I *did* ask you whether your user was a
database superuser.  Got no answer.

So, is "that user" a database superuser?
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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[David Baron]

OK, I withdraw the question. Will find useful answers elsewhere or stay with 
OpenOffice's DB (as I said, not all that bad!).

The flame war has gotten too ugly. I think we can argue about the merits of 
one of the other programs with a bit more common courtesy and civility and 
end the discussion as some point when nothing new is being contributed.


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 01:26:13PM +0100, Danesh Daroui wrote:
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> >
> >Really?  What should I learn?  I've given specific things where your
> >knowledge of/experience with databases is clearly deficient.  Care to
> >be specific and refrain from making sweeping statements with not
> >support?
> >  
> 
> You should learn lots of things. DB is one of them.
> 
Again, evading the question.  I know DBs.  Now, in what *specific* areas
do you feel I am deficient?

> >
> >Really?  Where is your invitation to participate in this thread?  The
> >original post that started this thread was a request for help getting
> >started with MySQL or PostgreSQL.  I am subscribed to the list and
> >received the message.  That's all the invitiation I needed.
> >
> >  
> 
> Yeah really! Except this one, I don't like to see any answer from you to 
> my posts!
> 
Sorry.  Public place, public list.  If you don't want to see my replies,
you are more than welcome to killfile me or simply unsibscribe.

> 
> >Since you don't get it, I'll repeat myself.  If companies like paypal
> >(or any company that relies their data actually being *valid*) makes it
> >the responsibility of the developers to validate data (with no further
> >checks at the DB), that is equivalent to a civil engineer designing a
> >bridge and not bothering to compute the loads and stresses on the
> >materials, since the construction workers will make sure it stays up
> >anyways.  In other fields of engineering, that sort of behavior carries
> >along with it terms like "professional negligence" and "malpractice."
> >In those other engineering fields, people who do that sort of thing lose
> >their licenses and barred from practicing as engineers again.
> >
Hmm.  No witty response to this?

> >
> >Umm, you are contradicting yourself.  Is this the developer's job or the
> >DB's?  Besides, what the hecks is logically valid?  To me, February 31
> >is not "logicall" valid as part of a date.  Yet MySQL happily accepts
> >it.  By your own definition, MySQL doesn't even accomplish that minimal
> >part of the job.
> >
Hmm.  No witty response here either.

> >
> >Yes.  Because it always better to implement the same duplicate
> >functionality in 15 random different libraries of varying (and often
> >dubious) levels of quality and probably little or no optimization
> >(except for the one or two most popular libraries).  Do you have any
> >training or education in software engineering?  I really mean
> >engineering, not CompSci, or a certificate from DeVry or ITT in Visual
> >Basic.  I mean, do you posses an earned engineering degree?  I would
> >guess not, but I just want to be sure.
> >
> >  
> 
> I am sure my level of knowledge is higher than you. Keep your high 
> school diploma. But don't be upset, this forum need uneducated people too.
> 
Not exactly a witty response, but at least ro responded something.  Of
course, you still avoided the question.

> >
> >I'm sorry, but this is so off base it is not even funny.  Every here
> >about SQL injection?  That one single thing is more than ample reason to
> >make sure that the database properly validates all data.  Now, I
> >understand that SQL injection can also cause other problems which the DB
> >cannot identify or prevent.  But still.
> >
> >  
> 
> Yeah, you have to be sorry! I will think about it to forgive you or not! :)
> 
Don't worry.  My foriveness from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.  Your
forgiveness is neither needed nor desired.

> >
> >OK.  Name one bank or economic organization that uses MySQL for mission
> >critical financial data.  Just one.  I'll wait.
> >
> 
> Well, you know, I am a busy developer. With a part time job and working 
> at the same time on my PhD thesis, I will have no time to answer your 
> nonsenses, more than this. So, I drop all your blah blahs and only say 
> that "Bank of Canada" and "Banque Crédit Agricole" (a well known French 
> bank) use MySQL. BTW, following links might be useful for you:
> 
> http://www.charityvillage.com/cv/research/rdbm3.html
> http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/productCd-0764507524.html
> 
I too am a busy developer working on a PhD thesis.  Mine is engineering
(computer engineering, sepcifically).  In what field is yours (since you
evaded the question when I asked it in my previous reply) and where are
you studying?

Now, I could not find any info on Bank of Canada.  However, The Credit
Agricloe article I found (in French, which I ran through babefish),
talks about an Apache+PHP+MySQL application used by people to view
information about French financial markets.  I am fairly certain that
the information in that database is replicated some a real database
somehwere else along the line.  So, that doesn't really fit as mission
critical financial information (in the sense that it is just data on
prices of french financial instruments/comodities/whatever).

That other link you provided is so "wow" I don't even know where to
begin.  This is my 

Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Danesh Daroui]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 02/02/07 07:54, Dan H. wrote:
>> Danesh Daroui wrote:
> 
>>> 5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to
>>> choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So
>>> the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before
>>> inserting.
>> This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Browser-side
>> data validation (be it with a combo box or JavaScrpit or whatever) is an
>> absolute no-no because the browser can send back anything it damn well
>> pleases. Data sent back from browsers must, under all circumstances, be
>> considered "dirty".
> 
> And Danesh lectures *us* on the need for schooling in database design.
> 

Not us my friend, you!


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/02/07 07:54, Dan H. wrote:
> Danesh Daroui wrote:
> 
>> 5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to
>> choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So
>> the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before
>> inserting.
> 
> This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Browser-side
> data validation (be it with a combo box or JavaScrpit or whatever) is an
> absolute no-no because the browser can send back anything it damn well
> pleases. Data sent back from browsers must, under all circumstances, be
> considered "dirty".

And Danesh lectures *us* on the need for schooling in database design.

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Dan H.]

Danesh Daroui wrote:

> 5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to
> choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So
> the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before
> inserting.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Browser-side
data validation (be it with a combo box or JavaScrpit or whatever) is an
absolute no-no because the browser can send back anything it damn well
pleases. Data sent back from browsers must, under all circumstances, be
considered "dirty".

D.






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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Dan H.]

Danesh Daroui wrote:

> 5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to
> choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So
> the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before
> inserting.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Browser-side
data validation (be it with a combo box or JavaScrpit or whatever) is an
absolute no-no because the browser can send back anything it damn well
pleases. Data sent back from browsers must, under all circumstances, be
considered "dirty".

D.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Dan H.]

Danesh Daroui wrote:

> 5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to
> choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So
> the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before
> inserting.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Browser-side
data validation (be it with a combo box or JavaScrpit or whatever) is an
absolute no-no because the browser can send back anything it damn well
pleases. Data sent back from browsers must, under all circumstances, be
considered "dirty".

D.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 12:15:31PM +0100, Danesh Daroui wrote:
> 
> 1. The one who should learn something is you, and not me. So, I would 
> suggest you to learn something basic about database concepts and I don't 
> care if you ever come back or not!

Really?  What should I learn?  I've given specific things where your
knowledge of/experience with databases is clearly deficient.  Care to
be specific and refrain from making sweeping statements with not
support?

> 2. You do not have to involve yourself in any single topic you see in 
> the forum, specially if you are not asked to do so!

Really?  Where is your invitation to participate in this thread?  The
original post that started this thread was a request for help getting
started with MySQL or PostgreSQL.  I am subscribed to the list and
received the message.  That's all the invitiation I needed.

> 3. If you have used credit card in stone ages (the days that it was 
> verified by just writing down on papers) it is not my fault! According 
> to the example you said, if you are dealing with a bank or PayPal, there 
> is only one center (or web site) that inserts data into database not 
> anyone from anywhere! There are something called "users" and 
> "privileges". Search on google to find out more about them.

Wow.  You really don't understand.  Anyone can *attempt* to "insert"
data into paypal's database.  Yes they have user.  Yes they have access
controls.  But paypal still takes responsbility for *validating* the
data.  Want to take a wild guess at how they do this?  Hint: it is in
the database.  That is what it is there for.

Since you don't get it, I'll repeat myself.  If companies like paypal
(or any company that relies their data actually being *valid*) makes it
the responsibility of the developers to validate data (with no further
checks at the DB), that is equivalent to a civil engineer designing a
bridge and not bothering to compute the loads and stresses on the
materials, since the construction workers will make sure it stays up
anyways.  In other fields of engineering, that sort of behavior carries
along with it terms like "professional negligence" and "malpractice."
In those other engineering fields, people who do that sort of thing lose
their licenses and barred from practicing as engineers again.

> 4. Yes, the code which interacts with database is responsible to be sure 
> that the data which is going to be inserted to the database is valid. 
> The database's job to check if the data is "logically" valid. For 
> example not to allow a character to be written in an integer field. 

Umm, you are contradicting yourself.  Is this the developer's job or the
DB's?  Besides, what the hecks is logically valid?  To me, February 31
is not "logicall" valid as part of a date.  Yet MySQL happily accepts
it.  By your own definition, MySQL doesn't even accomplish that minimal
part of the job.

> There are libraries in each programming language to do so. As I said, 
> MySQL also supports such things and have its own library of functions 
> which are very powerful, but it is optional and up to the user to use 
> them. Without it, it would be just overhead to database.

Yes.  Because it always better to implement the same duplicate
functionality in 15 random different libraries of varying (and often
dubious) levels of quality and probably little or no optimization
(except for the one or two most popular libraries).  Do you have any
training or education in software engineering?  I really mean
engineering, not CompSci, or a certificate from DeVry or ITT in Visual
Basic.  I mean, do you posses an earned engineering degree?  I would
guess not, but I just want to be sure.

> 5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to 
> choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So 
> the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before 

I'm sorry, but this is so off base it is not even funny.  Every here
about SQL injection?  That one single thing is more than ample reason to
make sure that the database properly validates all data.  Now, I
understand that SQL injection can also cause other problems which the DB
cannot identify or prevent.  But still.

> inserting. Many banks and economic organizations use MySQL as their 
> database. I think they do care about the date of their transactions too, 
> don't ya?

OK.  Name one bank or economic organization that uses MySQL for mission
critical financial data.  Just one.  I'll wait.

Regards,

-Roberto
-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Danesh Daroui]

1. The one who should learn something is you, and not me. So, I would 
suggest you to learn something basic about database concepts and I don't 
care if you ever come back or not!
2. You do not have to involve yourself in any single topic you see in 
the forum, specially if you are not asked to do so!
3. If you have used credit card in stone ages (the days that it was 
verified by just writing down on papers) it is not my fault! According 
to the example you said, if you are dealing with a bank or PayPal, there 
is only one center (or web site) that inserts data into database not 
anyone from anywhere! There are something called "users" and 
"privileges". Search on google to find out more about them.
4. Yes, the code which interacts with database is responsible to be sure 
that the data which is going to be inserted to the database is valid. 
The database's job to check if the data is "logically" valid. For 
example not to allow a character to be written in an integer field. 
There are libraries in each programming language to do so. As I said, 
MySQL also supports such things and have its own library of functions 
which are very powerful, but it is optional and up to the user to use 
them. Without it, it would be just overhead to database.
5. Again back to your example, yes, the PayPal web site offers you to 
choose the data by using a combo box and not inserting it manually. So 
the date which is sent to the database is definitely correct before 
inserting. Many banks and economic organizations use MySQL as their 
database. I think they do care about the date of their transactions too, 
don't ya?


D.


Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 05:53:52AM +0100, Danesh Daroui wrote:
  

What a useless and boring discussion you have started Ron!! Do you have
to just be against everyone who thinks MySQL has at least some good
features too? I just dropped the discussion when realized that it goes
nowhere, but if you like to continue, learn a little about DBs. Maybe
you will learn more about what a DB should do and what is not necessary
like date verification which is only an overhead to DB and it is
developers job to check it before inserting it in DB, if you take a DB
course (4 credits would be enough). Believe me, you rally need it.



Ever use a credit card?  I'll bet that somewhere along the way that
transaction gets store into a database.  Now, who do you want to be
responsible for making sure that your transaction is valid?  The
developer?  Ha!  I would say that it absolutely positively must be the
data store.  It does you no good to say "it is the developer's
responsibility" when you have hundreds, or thousands of developers
accessing your database.  What if PayPal or any credit card processing
company put into their SDK for people developing against their systems:
"It is your responsibility to make sure the data is valid.  The database
will *not* check this for you and if something goes wrong, it is your
fault."  Hint: nobody would have *any* faith in their systems.  Your
view is so strongly skewed toward a single-user mindset that it is no
wonder you think it is OK to make the developer responsible.  Please go
learn something about real databases and then come back.

Regards,

-Roberto

  



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Re: Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 09:10:27PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> 
> But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
> that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
> having to learn that is faster for some people?
> 
Ever have to share the road with someone who just decided to start
driving without actually learning anything about it?  What if the vast
majority of the motorists on the road did that?  That is what we are
dealing with when people take that atitude.  It is setting back software
development as a profession and likely contributing significantly to
making the Internet as a whole a much less pleasant place to visit.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 05:53:52AM +0100, Danesh Daroui wrote:
> 
> What a useless and boring discussion you have started Ron!! Do you have
> to just be against everyone who thinks MySQL has at least some good
> features too? I just dropped the discussion when realized that it goes
> nowhere, but if you like to continue, learn a little about DBs. Maybe
> you will learn more about what a DB should do and what is not necessary
> like date verification which is only an overhead to DB and it is
> developers job to check it before inserting it in DB, if you take a DB
> course (4 credits would be enough). Believe me, you rally need it.
> 
Ever use a credit card?  I'll bet that somewhere along the way that
transaction gets store into a database.  Now, who do you want to be
responsible for making sure that your transaction is valid?  The
developer?  Ha!  I would say that it absolutely positively must be the
data store.  It does you no good to say "it is the developer's
responsibility" when you have hundreds, or thousands of developers
accessing your database.  What if PayPal or any credit card processing
company put into their SDK for people developing against their systems:
"It is your responsibility to make sure the data is valid.  The database
will *not* check this for you and if something goes wrong, it is your
fault."  Hint: nobody would have *any* faith in their systems.  Your
view is so strongly skewed toward a single-user mindset that it is no
wonder you think it is OK to make the developer responsible.  Please go
learn something about real databases and then come back.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 23:41, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
>>
>> Remind me never to hire you.
>>
>> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?
>>
>> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.
> 
> For that I may implement my next database with MySQL (instead of
> Postgres like planned), just to spite you.

I'll live.

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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
>
> Remind me never to hire you.
>
> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?
>
> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.

For that I may implement my next database with MySQL (instead of
Postgres like planned), just to spite you.


-- 
Angelo Bertolli
Please remove my email address from your post when replying
[Tech http://bitfreedom.com | Gaming http://heroesonly.com]


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Danesh Daroui]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 02/01/07 20:10, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>>>   
>>>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
>>> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
>>> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
>>> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
>>>   
>> Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
>> forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot
> 
> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
> 
> Remind me never to hire you.
> 
>> weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
>> in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
>> means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.
> 
> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?
> 
> [snip]
>> It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
>> techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
>> habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
>> well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.
> 
>> But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
>> that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
>> having to learn that is faster for some people?
> 
> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.
> 


What a useless and boring discussion you have started Ron!! Do you have
to just be against everyone who thinks MySQL has at least some good
features too? I just dropped the discussion when realized that it goes
nowhere, but if you like to continue, learn a little about DBs. Maybe
you will learn more about what a DB should do and what is not necessary
like date verification which is only an overhead to DB and it is
developers job to check it before inserting it in DB, if you take a DB
course (4 credits would be enough). Believe me, you rally need it.


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Greg Folkert]

On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 20:37 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02/01/07 20:10, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> > Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> >> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> >>   
> >>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
> >>>
> >>> 
> >> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
> >> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
> >> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
> >> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
> >>   
> > 
> > Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
> > forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot
> 
> That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.
> 
> Remind me never to hire you.

Was that 3rd normal form?


> > weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
> > in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
> > means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.
> 
> Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?

Nah they use 31st normal form.

> [snip]
> > It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
> > techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
> > habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
> > well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.
> > 
> > But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
> > that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
> > having to learn that is faster for some people?
> 
> It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.

nulleth normal form! Of course, lets name a table "field" and in table
"field" name a field "table".

Believe it or not, I've SEEN that. Trying to get someone who did the DB
design *WHY* it isn't good to use a reserved name for an object... or
how about a field called "count" being used as "record-no" except when
it had a duplicate... then the field "sub-count" was used.

Yeah, systems designed during "programming classes" should NOT go into
production... *EVAR*1!11!

I also asked how they got the DB to accept the names... they forced it
with the exceptions rules to de-reserve reserved names and then renamed
the reserved name.

Hell, I didn't think you could force that. But think of the maintainers
behind the implementers. Imagine the surprise when they looked at the
SQL and saw the normal reserved words in the wrong places, and things in
the reserved word positions being something else?
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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

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On 02/01/07 20:10, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>>   
>>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
>>>
>>> 
>> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
>> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
>> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
>> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
>>   
> 
> Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
> forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot

That splatting noise is my hurl splatting onto the opposite wall.

Remind me never to hire you.

> weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
> in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
> means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.

Are you sure you don't work for Microsoft?  Or maybe you're an MCSE?

[snip]
> It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
> techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
> habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
> well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.
> 
> But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
> that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
> having to learn that is faster for some people?

It's confirmed.  You *are* an MCSE.

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Re: Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
>   
>> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
>>
>> 
> What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
> easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
> people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
> pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.
>   

Mostly in letting people do rapid development without requiring a lot of
forethought in database design.  I know, I know, my argument is a lot
weaker these days with improvements made to Postgres.  Legacy counts too
in this case because when there is a big MySQL userbase out there that
means more support.  But, as you said before, that's not a technical merit.

MySQL is to the database world what PHP is to the programming language
world:  feels sloppy... but it's fast and easy.  I still don't think
that makes PHP "not a real language," although I'm sure it feels that
way to some people.  I wouldn't write anything but a dynamic website in
PHP, but as far as I'm concerned PHP is the best thing to write a
dynamic website in.  I'm not quite so adamant about using MySQL for
certain things, but I do feel like it's a perfectly appropriate solution
sometimes.

>> things.  Yeah, it sucks that MySQL requires an application layer to any 
>> system (i.e. you, as the programmer, must provide rules, enforce data 
>> integrity, and up until recently even manage your own foreign keys).  
>> 
>
> OK.  How in the world does this sort of garbage shorten the user's
> learning curve.  You are contradicting yourself.
>   

It doesn't.  Your point (and Ron's) about teaching people bad design
techniques and bad habits is well-taken.  MySQL does not enforce good
habits.  And if you have good habits or know how to design a database
well, then using those techniques actually makes your life easier.

But you're coming from an angle where people know or must learn all of
that just before they're able to even start.  Don't you see how not
having to learn that is faster for some people?


-- 
Angelo Bertolli
Please remove my email address from your post when replying
[Tech http://bitfreedom.com | Gaming http://heroesonly.com]


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

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On 02/01/07 17:03, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 04:37:39PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
[snip]
> Yes, they were "fast" when computers were still slow.  Unfortunately,
> many people were willing to give up data integrity in exchange for
> "fast".

And install layer upon layer of AV software on POS operating
systems, and *still* get 0wn3d and turned into mal-bots.

That's sheeple for ya...
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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 04:37:39PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> 
> The fundamental difference is licensing.  If Windows was open source, I 
> certainly wouldn't bother disagreeing with them if they specified which 
> users would benefit more from Windows.  And on that issue MySQL wins 
> because you can have it under the GPL.  Postgres is under BSD. (I guess 
> that's arguable, but we are on a Debian list after all.)
> 
It depends on whether your definition of "freeness" is biased toward
developers or end users.

Basically, on technical merits, MySQL benefits practically nobody.

> 
> (By the way, you actually get different transactional results based on 
> what kind of storage you tell MySQL to use.  InnoDB is better but slower 
> than MyISAM.  Gee, I wonder if there could be a tradeoff there.)
> 
Yes, because MyISAM is *not* transactional at all.  Not just that, but
if you have a query/transaction that involves upty-bazillion InnoDB
(transactional) tables and only *one* MyISAM table, then the *entire*
query/transaction is *not* transactional.

> MySQL got the upper hand for having "better" priorities early on, and 
> now they're enjoying their popularity.  It didn't really matter that 

Yes, they were "fast" when computers were still slow.  Unfortunately,
many people were willing to give up data integrity in exchange for
"fast".

Regards,

-Roberto

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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 01:16:18PM -0500, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> 
> (1) MySQL is shown to be faster in a single-user environment than 
> Postgres, especially with complicated SELECT statements
> 
IIRC, this does not hold for transactional tables.  So, we are back to
the "if you don't care about your data" argument.

> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users
> 
What?  In what way?  Learning to develop against MySQL is no harder or
easier than learning to develop against PostgreSQL (besides the fact the
people need to be broken of the stupid misconceptions engendered by the
pervasveness of MySQL).  The two are just different.

> If people were just praising and praising MySQL as the best database, 
> I'd be playing devil's advocate because honestly MySQL isn't a serious 
> database for serious database jobs.  It's a good database for rapid web 
> development, and for quickies--probably the BEST choice for those 

I don't about "BEST" but it is at least one of the available choices.

> things.  Yeah, it sucks that MySQL requires an application layer to any 
> system (i.e. you, as the programmer, must provide rules, enforce data 
> integrity, and up until recently even manage your own foreign keys).  

OK.  How in the world does this sort of garbage shorten the user's
learning curve.  You are contradicting yourself.

> But if OpenOffice.org works with MySQL, then I'm sure the OOo software 
> has taken care of it.
> 
> Let's not go around telling people "you shouldn't use MySQL" or "you 
> shouldn't use Postgres" just because it might not fit what we're doing 
> with OUR databases at any given time.
> 
Except that there are vanishingly few, if any, reasons to actually
prefer MySQL over anything else.

> With that said, I think anyone who is not the most technically inclined 
> and just getting into things should start out by trying MySQL
> because I think overall you can find a lot better information for it 
> online, and it you don't get bogged down with different schemas.  I 
> think anyone who only knows MySQL really needs to start getting into 
> Postgres if they ever intend on making a large database.
> 
Ever learn to play a musical instrument in a "newbie friendly" way?
Ever take lessons from a master after that?  They will spend more time
breaking you of your bad habits than teaching you the instrument.  The
same holds true for people who grow up on MySQL.  They simply do not
understand how to work with a real database.

I see this at work.  People "learn" on MySQL and then totally fall apart
when they try to work with Oracle.  This is because they don't
understand that Oracle, being a real database, behaves like a real
database and not like that toy MySQL.

Regards,

-Roberto

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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02/01/07 12:16, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
  

I've been debating whether or not to make a comment on this discussion,
but it finally got to me.  I think you're being way too hard on MySQL
considering the fact that this question originated from the idea of
using a database backend for OpenOffice.org.  Yeah, I didn't like "MySQL
is definitely your best choice" kind of answer with no clear indication
as to why MySQL is a better choice in this case, so I'll give a couple
of reasons:

(1) MySQL is shown to be faster in a single-user environment than
Postgres, especially with complicated SELECT statements

(2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users



I think MSFT used to use those same arguments about why people
should use Windows
  


The fundamental difference is licensing.  If Windows was open source, I 
certainly wouldn't bother disagreeing with them if they specified which 
users would benefit more from Windows.  And on that issue MySQL wins 
because you can have it under the GPL.  Postgres is under BSD. (I guess 
that's arguable, but we are on a Debian list after all.)




think anyone who only knows MySQL really needs to start getting into
Postgres if they ever intend on making a large database.



Bad habits ingrained now are bad habits that you carry with you for
a long time.  Start with good habits now and you're better for it
always.

The PostgreSQL Novice list welcomes questions like those from OP.
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/


I don't know... I have so many mixed feelings about this.  Yeah, it's 
nice if we could educate everyone through the design of the software, 
but at some point that's just a barrier to entry for too many people.  
And just using Postgres really doesn't take care of all of the problems 
anyway:  you can still push foreign key management to the application.  
Who is going to teach you to use foreign keys?


(By the way, you actually get different transactional results based on 
what kind of storage you tell MySQL to use.  InnoDB is better but slower 
than MyISAM.  Gee, I wonder if there could be a tradeoff there.)


MySQL got the upper hand for having "better" priorities early on, and 
now they're enjoying their popularity.  It didn't really matter that 
Firewire was better than USB:  USB was a little bit cheaper, got bigger 
market share, and because of that was later able to improve.  (By the 
way, watch now Nintendo takes over Sony's marketshare now. ;)


Not to get too offtopic, maybe if Postgres had been more reliable prior 
to version 7 it would have taken over.  I don't really think anyone 
cared about how fast MySQL was on large-but-simple databases--although 
it certainly helped.  But what people did care about is that a) it was 
free (as in beer), and b) that it worked.


I don't want to come off as an authority on the subject, because I don't 
consider myself an expert on DBMS, just a casual user.  They've just 
been interesting to me for the past 10 years, and I do currently use 
both MySQL and Postgres.


Angelo


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

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On 02/01/07 07:31, Max Hyre wrote:
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:54:01PM -0900, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
>>> In that same document, they give the reason for doing so:
>>> "The reason for using the preceding rules in non-strict
>>> mode is that we can't check these conditions until the
>>> statement has begun executing. We can't just roll back if
>>> we encounter a problem after updating a few rows, because
>>> the storage engine may not support rollback. The option
>>> of terminating the statement is not that good; in this
>>> case, the update would be ???half done,??? which is
>>> probably the worst possible scenario. In this case, it's
>>> better to ???do the best you can??? and then continue as
>>> if nothing happened."
>>>
>>>
>> I'm sorry, but "our database can't always handle
>> transactions" is not a valid excuse for allowing bogus
>> data.
> 
>Does this mean that Mysql isn't really a DB, but is in fact just a
> front-end, translating SQL statements into commands to the real DB?

MySQL with the MyISAM data store is *exactly* what you describe.
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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

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On 02/01/07 12:16, Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> I've been debating whether or not to make a comment on this discussion,
> but it finally got to me.  I think you're being way too hard on MySQL
> considering the fact that this question originated from the idea of
> using a database backend for OpenOffice.org.  Yeah, I didn't like "MySQL
> is definitely your best choice" kind of answer with no clear indication
> as to why MySQL is a better choice in this case, so I'll give a couple
> of reasons:
> 
> (1) MySQL is shown to be faster in a single-user environment than
> Postgres, especially with complicated SELECT statements
> 
> (2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users

I think MSFT used to use those same arguments about why people
should use Windows

[snip]
> think anyone who only knows MySQL really needs to start getting into
> Postgres if they ever intend on making a large database.

Bad habits ingrained now are bad habits that you carry with you for
a long time.  Start with good habits now and you're better for it
always.

The PostgreSQL Novice list welcomes questions like those from OP.
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/
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Re: Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Angelo Bertolli]

I've been debating whether or not to make a comment on this discussion, 
but it finally got to me.  I think you're being way too hard on MySQL 
considering the fact that this question originated from the idea of 
using a database backend for OpenOffice.org.  Yeah, I didn't like "MySQL 
is definitely your best choice" kind of answer with no clear indication 
as to why MySQL is a better choice in this case, so I'll give a couple 
of reasons:


(1) MySQL is shown to be faster in a single-user environment than 
Postgres, especially with complicated SELECT statements


(2) MySQL is a shorter learning curve for new users

If people were just praising and praising MySQL as the best database, 
I'd be playing devil's advocate because honestly MySQL isn't a serious 
database for serious database jobs.  It's a good database for rapid web 
development, and for quickies--probably the BEST choice for those 
things.  Yeah, it sucks that MySQL requires an application layer to any 
system (i.e. you, as the programmer, must provide rules, enforce data 
integrity, and up until recently even manage your own foreign keys).  
But if OpenOffice.org works with MySQL, then I'm sure the OOo software 
has taken care of it.


Let's not go around telling people "you shouldn't use MySQL" or "you 
shouldn't use Postgres" just because it might not fit what we're doing 
with OUR databases at any given time.


With that said, I think anyone who is not the most technically inclined 
and just getting into things should start out by trying MySQL
because I think overall you can find a lot better information for it 
online, and it you don't get bogged down with different schemas.  I 
think anyone who only knows MySQL really needs to start getting into 
Postgres if they ever intend on making a large database.


Angelo


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Re: Getting started with Postgres

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 04:18:23PM +0200, David Baron wrote:
> Never expected to start a flame-war over this.
> 
Hey.  We're here to help :-)

> I need visual tools to set the stuff up and run it and they are not evident.
> 
Hmm.  I like to work from the commandline.  If I find myself needing to
"browse" I use phppgadmin (or sometimes pgadmin).

Regards,

-Roberto

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Re: Getting started with Postgres

[David Baron]

Never expected to start a flame-war over this.

I need visual tools to set the stuff up and run it and they are not evident.

Actually, the OpenOffice database is not at all bad (except that it imports 
empty spreadsheet items as blanks (NOT EMPTY, NOT NULL). It can be readilly 
queried, reports generated and executes SQL. Maybe I can even create the two 
tables using SQL right there (the GUI has new tables disabled because of the 
linkage below, I suppose).

The database is LINKED to the spreadsheet. In other words, change the 
spreadsheet and the database content has also changed along with querie 
results and report contents. This is cool.

[The main snafu I see is because it accepts both its own and SQL syntax in 
line, LIKE '%*' (find content ending with *) will not work. The resultant SQL 
will be LIKE "%%". Excaping the * does not help. Entering it is the SQL edit 
views does not help--same thing happens :-)]


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Max Hyre]

Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:54:01PM -0900, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
>
>> In that same document, they give the reason for doing so:
>>
>> "The reason for using the preceding rules in non-strict
>> mode is that we can't check these conditions until the
>> statement has begun executing. We can't just roll back if
>> we encounter a problem after updating a few rows, because
>> the storage engine may not support rollback. The option
>> of terminating the statement is not that good; in this
>> case, the update would be ???half done,??? which is
>> probably the worst possible scenario. In this case, it's
>> better to ???do the best you can??? and then continue as
>> if nothing happened."
>>
>>
> I'm sorry, but "our database can't always handle
> transactions" is not a valid excuse for allowing bogus
> data.

   Does this mean that Mysql isn't really a DB, but is in fact just a
front-end, translating SQL statements into commands to the real DB?


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Dave Ewart]

On Thursday, 01.02.2007 at 06:18 +0100, Danesh Daroui wrote:

> About allowing corrupted data, it is not the responsibility of database 
> engine to verify if the data is valid or not since the database engine 
> only "Manages" data and not validate.

It depends what you mean by 'validate'.  The database ought, at least,
to return the same value that was INSERTed.  Or, if it is not able to do
so, it should raise an error on the INSERT.

Look! This is MySQL 5:

>> mysql> create table foo(a date);
>> Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.05 sec)
>> 
>> mysql> describe foo;
>> +---+--+--+-+-+---+
>> | Field | Type | Null | Key | Default | Extra |
>> +---+--+--+-+-+---+
>> | a | date | YES  | | NULL|   | 
>> +---+--+--+-+-+---+
>> 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
>> 
>> mysql> insert into foo values('2007-02-31');
>> Query OK, 1 row affected, 1 warning (0.00 sec)
>> 
>> mysql> select * from foo;
>> ++
>> | a  |
>> ++
>> | -00-00 | 
>> ++
>> 1 row in set (0.00 sec)

It generates a warning but still inserts the record.  This strikes me as
dangerous, especially as the default behaviour of 'BEGIN' and 'COMMIT'
wrapped around the above *still* inserts the record.  I seem to remember
that slightly older MySQL versions returned '2007-03-03' instead in the
above circumstances, which was ludicrous; at least that has been fixed.

The same test under PostgreSQL 8.1:

>> pg=# create table foo(a date);
>> CREATE TABLE
>> pg=# \d foo
>> Table "public.foo"
>>  Column | Type | Modifiers 
>> +--+---
>>  a  | date | 
>> 
>> pg=# insert into foo values('2007-02-31');
>> ERROR:  date/time field value out of range: "2007-02-31"
>> pg=# select * from foo;
>>  a 
>> ---
>> (0 rows)

Seems like very sensible behaviour to me.

Dave.

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

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On 01/31/07 23:18, Danesh Daroui wrote:
> Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:54:01PM -0900, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
>>  
[snip]
> Maybe MySQL is not the best database engine in the world but it is one
> the best engines. I have worked on MySQL for several years and from four
> years ago I have started to develop my own database engine inspired by
> MySQL. During development of my own database engine (BromeliaSQL) I
> realized the magical techniques which have been used in MySQL which are
> unique. For example MySQL was (and maybe is) the only database engine
> which allows you to read and write to a table which has been indexed
> even by using B-Tree which is the most complex structure, at the same time.

ROTFLMAO.  You have *got* to be kidding.

*Every* RDBMS worth it's salt lets you concurrently access b-tree
indexes.

> About allowing corrupted data, it is not the responsibility of database
> engine to verify if the data is valid or not since the database engine
> only "Manages" data and not validate. Although, MySQL have a very very
> powerful library of functions to validate and generate and validate date
> and kind in any possible format.

What a single-user attitude.  Here's a nickel kid, go buy yourself
some VT220s.

It's always the app developer's responsibility to make sure that he
inserts clean data.

OTOH, any DBA worth his/her salt will *not* trust code monkeys to
find their arses with both hands, a map and flashlight.  Thus, we
put up our own defenses against incompetent boobs.

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 06:18:03AM +0100, Danesh Daroui wrote:
> 
> Maybe MySQL is not the best database engine in the world but it is one 
> the best engines. I have worked on MySQL for several years and from four 
> years ago I have started to develop my own database engine inspired by 
> MySQL. During development of my own database engine (BromeliaSQL) I 
> realized the magical techniques which have been used in MySQL which are 
> unique. For example MySQL was (and maybe is) the only database engine 
> which allows you to read and write to a table which has been indexed 
> even by using B-Tree which is the most complex structure, at the same time.

That's nice.

> About allowing corrupted data, it is not the responsibility of database 
> engine to verify if the data is valid or not since the database engine 
> only "Manages" data and not validate. Although, MySQL have a very very 
> powerful library of functions to validate and generate and validate date 
> and kind in any possible format.
> 
I'm sorry, but this is pure crap.  There is no way that anyone can
convince me that inserting 2007-02-31 or even -00-00 into a column
of type DATE is even remotely permissible.  What fantasy land do people
live in where such dates are valid?

I simply don't buy that.  It is obvious that you do not work with
databases in a multiuser environment.  Imagine this.  You are running a
huge payment processing system.  There a number of client applications
which have been developed to interface to the database backend.  Now,
what happens when someone creates a client with a bug that tries to
insert payments dated February 31st?  MySQL says, OK, go for it.  What
about all the rest of the users who actually depend on the data to be
correct and consistent?

What about management, who expect to be able to generate meaningful
reports?  Think about it.  How meaningful is it to report on events that
could not have happened according to their dates?

I could go on.  Like I said, if you are running a phpBB or some dinky
little application where you don't care about your data and/or you don't
need true multiuser support, then MySQL works fine.  I still think it is
a bad idea to use it in those situations, but it will work.  What I
don't get is why people are so quick to stand up and defend MySQL even
though it has so many shortcomings.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
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http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Danesh Daroui]

Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:

On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:54:01PM -0900, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
  

In that same document, they give the reason for doing so:

"The reason for using the preceding rules in non-strict mode is that we can't 
check these conditions until the statement has begun executing. We can't just 
roll back if we encounter a problem after updating a few rows, because the 
storage engine may not support rollback. The option of terminating the 
statement is not that good; in this case, the update would be ???half done,??? 
which is probably the worst possible scenario. In this case, it's better 
to ???do the best you can??? and then continue as if nothing happened."




I'm sorry, but "our database can't always handle transactions" is not a
valid excuse for allowing bogus data.

  
And also provide a way (from 5.0.2 on) of enabling the "traditional" strict 
behavior.  So, with one config option, MySQL will now reject all invalid data 
(providing you're using transactional engines, for reasons described above).




Please read this:

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=219722&cid=17824340

Now, tell me seriously that it is valid for any database to treat data
integrity as an *optional* feature.

  
As for your assertion that those who spec MySQL don't know what they're doing, 
I do believe the techs that work at MySQL are some pretty sharp cookies.  I 
think they know what they're doing, and I'm sure they know how to either 
enable the above config option, or check their data before it gets to their 
database.




So what?  Microsoft has some absolutely brilliant architects, engineers
and developers.  They are still polishing a turd.

  
All products have their gotchas.  One should be familiar with the product 
against which one is writing, or weird things will bite you down the road.




Boy, that's an understatement.

Regards,

-Roberto

  
Maybe MySQL is not the best database engine in the world but it is one 
the best engines. I have worked on MySQL for several years and from four 
years ago I have started to develop my own database engine inspired by 
MySQL. During development of my own database engine (BromeliaSQL) I 
realized the magical techniques which have been used in MySQL which are 
unique. For example MySQL was (and maybe is) the only database engine 
which allows you to read and write to a table which has been indexed 
even by using B-Tree which is the most complex structure, at the same time.
About allowing corrupted data, it is not the responsibility of database 
engine to verify if the data is valid or not since the database engine 
only "Manages" data and not validate. Although, MySQL have a very very 
powerful library of functions to validate and generate and validate date 
and kind in any possible format.


D.


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 02:54:01PM -0900, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> 
> In that same document, they give the reason for doing so:
> 
> "The reason for using the preceding rules in non-strict mode is that we can't 
> check these conditions until the statement has begun executing. We can't just 
> roll back if we encounter a problem after updating a few rows, because the 
> storage engine may not support rollback. The option of terminating the 
> statement is not that good; in this case, the update would be ???half 
> done,??? 
> which is probably the worst possible scenario. In this case, it's better 
> to ???do the best you can??? and then continue as if nothing happened."
> 
I'm sorry, but "our database can't always handle transactions" is not a
valid excuse for allowing bogus data.

> And also provide a way (from 5.0.2 on) of enabling the "traditional" strict 
> behavior.  So, with one config option, MySQL will now reject all invalid data 
> (providing you're using transactional engines, for reasons described above).
> 
Please read this:

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=219722&cid=17824340

Now, tell me seriously that it is valid for any database to treat data
integrity as an *optional* feature.

> As for your assertion that those who spec MySQL don't know what they're 
> doing, 
> I do believe the techs that work at MySQL are some pretty sharp cookies.  I 
> think they know what they're doing, and I'm sure they know how to either 
> enable the above config option, or check their data before it gets to their 
> database.
> 
So what?  Microsoft has some absolutely brilliant architects, engineers
and developers.  They are still polishing a turd.

> All products have their gotchas.  One should be familiar with the product 
> against which one is writing, or weird things will bite you down the road.
> 
Boy, that's an understatement.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 01:50:14PM -0900, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 13:19, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> > > How do I get started here?
> >
> > First.  Please do not use MySQL, unless you don't care about your data.
> 
> Please stop this MySQL vs. PostgreSQL bashing.  Each has their place.  If 

I am not bashing.  MySQL's place is places where people don't care about
their data.  Full stop.  End of story.

> users of MySQL don't care about their data, then I guess Bayer, Colgate, 
> Ensembl Genome Browser, Genome Sciences Center (GSC), The Institute for 
> Genomic Research, AIRBUS/EADS, Australian Department of Defence, Los Alamos 
> National Laboratory, Ministère de la Defense (France), CraigsList, Google, 
> iStockphoto, PriceGrabber, Ticketmaster, Yahoo!, CERN - The ATLAS Experiment 
> at LHC, Bank of Canada, Lloyds TSB Bank, Linden Lab (Second Life), California 
> Air Review Board, Department of Homeland Security, NASA, NASA Jet Propulsion 
> Lab (JPL), DaimlerChrysler, Epson, Chicago Sun-Times, Slashdot, Dell, 
> Hewlett-Packard, Novell, Siemens, Sun Microsystems, Symantec, Texas 
> Instruments, AT&T Wireless, Cable & Wireless, Cisco Systems, Nokia, Lufthansa 
> Systems, Orbitz, 37signals, del.icio.us, Digg, Facebook, Feedburner, 
> Feedster, Flickr, Freshmeat.net, Technorati, Wikipedia, and YouTube (among 
> many others, see http://www.mysql.com/customers/ ) don't care about their 
> data.  These are companies that live and die by their data, I'm sure they 
> care about it very much.  Each has their place.  MySQL has come a long way 
> since its 3.23 days.  Read the manual.  Form your own opinions.  A lot has 
> changed.
> 
Umm.  Maybe they all use MySQL as the backend for phpBB or something
like that.  I would like to see proof that some bank (since you list a
few) is actually using MySQL as the backend for a *real* core system of
theirs.  Hint: you won't find one.  Just because LANL, NASA and some
banks bought some MySQL licenses doesn't mean that they are using it to
host their mission critical data.  The US Army, Air Force, Navy and
Marines buy plenty of Dodge Stratus and similar vehicles.  That does not
make them suitable substitutes for tanks, airplanes or ships.

As I said before, MySQL has its place where you don't care about your
data.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
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http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Joshua J. Kugler]

On Wednesday 31 January 2007 15:27, Ron Johnson wrote:
> You're talking to someone who's been a DBA for 10 years; you will
> not win this argument.

Eh, so ya got three years on me. :)

j

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/31/07 17:54, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 14:20, Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 01/31/07 16:50, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 13:19, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> How do I get started here?
 First.  Please do not use MySQL, unless you don't care about your data.
>>> Please stop this MySQL vs. PostgreSQL bashing.  Each has their place.  If
>>> users of MySQL don't care about their data, then I guess Bayer, Colgate,
>>> Ensembl Genome Browser, Genome Sciences Center (GSC), The Institute for
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Feedster, Flickr, Freshmeat.net, Technorati, Wikipedia, and YouTube
>>> (among many others, see http://www.mysql.com/customers/ ) don't care
>>> about their data.  These are companies that live and die by their data,
>>> I'm sure they care about it very much.  Each has their place.  MySQL has
>>> come a long way since its 3.23 days.  Read the manual.  Form your own
>>> opinions.  A lot has changed.
>> I supplied a link to the official MySQL docs.  I'll quote from them
>> now, if you'd like:
>>
>> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/constraint-invalid-data.html
>> MySQL allows you to store certain incorrect date values
>> into DATE and DATETIME columns (such as '2000-02-31' or
>> '2000-02-00'). The idea is that it's not the job of the
>> SQL server to validate dates. If MySQL can store a date
>> value and retrieve exactly the same value, MySQL stores
>> it as given. If the date is totally wrong (outside the
>> server's ability to store it), the special ?zero? date
>> value '-00-00' is stored in the column instead.
> 
> In that same document, they give the reason for doing so:
> 
> "The reason for using the preceding rules in non-strict mode is that we can't 
> check these conditions until the statement has begun executing. We can't just 
> roll back if we encounter a problem after updating a few rows, because the 
> storage engine may not support rollback. The option of terminating the 
> statement is not that good; in this case, the update would be “half done,” 
> which is probably the worst possible scenario. In this case, it's better 
> to “do the best you can” and then continue as if nothing happened."

Every other RDBMS handles bad data by rejecting the statement.  But
then, every other RDBMS that I know of is transactional and can roll
back to the point of last commit.  (And no, slapping an SQL parser
on top of an ISAM library did not make MySQL an RDBMS.)

> And also provide a way (from 5.0.2 on) of enabling the "traditional" strict 
> behavior.  So, with one config option, MySQL will now reject all invalid data 
> (providing you're using transactional engines, for reasons described above).

And a developer can disable it at run-time, inserting all the bad
data his poorly written app can manage.  We all make mistakes.
Having another layer of protection is *always* a good thing.

> As for your assertion that those who spec MySQL don't know what they're 
> doing, 
> I do believe the techs that work at MySQL are some pretty sharp cookies.  I 
> think they know what they're doing, and I'm sure they know how to either 
> enable the above config option, or check their data before it gets to their 
> database.

And not making a database-wide config parameter QED demonstrates
that they do *not* know what it takes to make a real RDBMS.

You're talking to someone who's been a DBA for 10 years; you will
not win this argument.

> All products have their gotchas.  One should be familiar with the product 
> against which one is writing, or weird things will bite you down the road.
> 
> j
> 

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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Joshua J. Kugler]

On Wednesday 31 January 2007 14:20, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 01/31/07 16:50, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 13:19, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> >>> How do I get started here?
> >>
> >> First.  Please do not use MySQL, unless you don't care about your data.
> >
> > Please stop this MySQL vs. PostgreSQL bashing.  Each has their place.  If
> > users of MySQL don't care about their data, then I guess Bayer, Colgate,
> > Ensembl Genome Browser, Genome Sciences Center (GSC), The Institute for
>
> [snip]
>
> > Feedster, Flickr, Freshmeat.net, Technorati, Wikipedia, and YouTube
> > (among many others, see http://www.mysql.com/customers/ ) don't care
> > about their data.  These are companies that live and die by their data,
> > I'm sure they care about it very much.  Each has their place.  MySQL has
> > come a long way since its 3.23 days.  Read the manual.  Form your own
> > opinions.  A lot has changed.
>
> I supplied a link to the official MySQL docs.  I'll quote from them
> now, if you'd like:
>
> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/constraint-invalid-data.html
> MySQL allows you to store certain incorrect date values
> into DATE and DATETIME columns (such as '2000-02-31' or
> '2000-02-00'). The idea is that it's not the job of the
> SQL server to validate dates. If MySQL can store a date
> value and retrieve exactly the same value, MySQL stores
> it as given. If the date is totally wrong (outside the
> server's ability to store it), the special ?zero? date
> value '-00-00' is stored in the column instead.

In that same document, they give the reason for doing so:

"The reason for using the preceding rules in non-strict mode is that we can't 
check these conditions until the statement has begun executing. We can't just 
roll back if we encounter a problem after updating a few rows, because the 
storage engine may not support rollback. The option of terminating the 
statement is not that good; in this case, the update would be “half done,” 
which is probably the worst possible scenario. In this case, it's better 
to “do the best you can” and then continue as if nothing happened."

And also provide a way (from 5.0.2 on) of enabling the "traditional" strict 
behavior.  So, with one config option, MySQL will now reject all invalid data 
(providing you're using transactional engines, for reasons described above).

As for your assertion that those who spec MySQL don't know what they're doing, 
I do believe the techs that work at MySQL are some pretty sharp cookies.  I 
think they know what they're doing, and I'm sure they know how to either 
enable the above config option, or check their data before it gets to their 
database.

All products have their gotchas.  One should be familiar with the product 
against which one is writing, or weird things will bite you down the road.

j

-- 
Joshua Kugler   
Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/31/07 16:50, Joshua J. Kugler wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 January 2007 13:19, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
>>> How do I get started here?
>> First.  Please do not use MySQL, unless you don't care about your data.
> 
> Please stop this MySQL vs. PostgreSQL bashing.  Each has their place.  If 
> users of MySQL don't care about their data, then I guess Bayer, Colgate, 
> Ensembl Genome Browser, Genome Sciences Center (GSC), The Institute for 
[snip]
> Feedster, Flickr, Freshmeat.net, Technorati, Wikipedia, and YouTube (among 
> many others, see http://www.mysql.com/customers/ ) don't care about their 
> data.  These are companies that live and die by their data, I'm sure they 
> care about it very much.  Each has their place.  MySQL has come a long way 
> since its 3.23 days.  Read the manual.  Form your own opinions.  A lot has 
> changed.

I supplied a link to the official MySQL docs.  I'll quote from them
now, if you'd like:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/constraint-invalid-data.html
MySQL allows you to store certain incorrect date values
into DATE and DATETIME columns (such as '2000-02-31' or
'2000-02-00'). The idea is that it's not the job of the
SQL server to validate dates. If MySQL can store a date
value and retrieve exactly the same value, MySQL stores
it as given. If the date is totally wrong (outside the
server's ability to store it), the special ?zero? date
value '-00-00' is stored in the column instead.


So, I'd say that yes, anyone who specs MySQL either (a) does not
know WTF they are doing, or (b) cares more about MySQL's supposed
raw speed than about the validity of their data.
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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Joshua J. Kugler]

On Wednesday 31 January 2007 13:19, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> > How do I get started here?
>
> First.  Please do not use MySQL, unless you don't care about your data.

Please stop this MySQL vs. PostgreSQL bashing.  Each has their place.  If 
users of MySQL don't care about their data, then I guess Bayer, Colgate, 
Ensembl Genome Browser, Genome Sciences Center (GSC), The Institute for 
Genomic Research, AIRBUS/EADS, Australian Department of Defence, Los Alamos 
National Laboratory, Ministère de la Defense (France), CraigsList, Google, 
iStockphoto, PriceGrabber, Ticketmaster, Yahoo!, CERN - The ATLAS Experiment 
at LHC, Bank of Canada, Lloyds TSB Bank, Linden Lab (Second Life), California 
Air Review Board, Department of Homeland Security, NASA, NASA Jet Propulsion 
Lab (JPL), DaimlerChrysler, Epson, Chicago Sun-Times, Slashdot, Dell, 
Hewlett-Packard, Novell, Siemens, Sun Microsystems, Symantec, Texas 
Instruments, AT&T Wireless, Cable & Wireless, Cisco Systems, Nokia, Lufthansa 
Systems, Orbitz, 37signals, del.icio.us, Digg, Facebook, Feedburner, 
Feedster, Flickr, Freshmeat.net, Technorati, Wikipedia, and YouTube (among 
many others, see http://www.mysql.com/customers/ ) don't care about their 
data.  These are companies that live and die by their data, I'm sure they 
care about it very much.  Each has their place.  MySQL has come a long way 
since its 3.23 days.  Read the manual.  Form your own opinions.  A lot has 
changed.

j

-- 
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Lead System Admin -- Senior Programmer
http://www.eeinternet.com
PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/  ID 0xDB26D7CE
PO Box 80086 -- Fairbanks, AK 99708 -- Ph: 907-456-5581 Fax: 907-456-3111

Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 07:17:48PM +0200, David Baron wrote:
> I have an openoffice spreadsheet from which I want to generate two related 
> tables. I have tried most everything installed.
> 
> Stuff from OpenOffice will generate a database with table entries named by 
> the 
> first line in the spreadsheet. This can, indeed, be queried, sort of.
> 
> I would like to get this data into a Postgres or MySQL database. Using 
> pgadmin3, I cannot get a connection connected. Does not accept my password. 
> Their docs cited Debian problems here and recommended md5 authorization. 
> Tried that. No avail. One can also simply say trust (localhost only). No 
> avail.
> 
> How do I get started here?
> 
First.  Please do not use MySQL, unless you don't care about your data.

Second, you do know that PostgreSQL users and system users are separate.
Have you created a user account in PostgreSQL?  You can do this using
the command line program and this documented quite well at
http://postgresql.org/docs along with lots of other things.

As far as it not accepting your password, what do the errors in the logs
say?

Regards,

-Roberto
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http://www.connexer.com


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/31/07 12:29, Danesh Daroui wrote:
> David Baron wrote:
[snip]
> MySQL is definitely best choice. If you have not still installed
> latest version of MySQL do it as following:

Well, if you *insist* on starting a war, so be it.

MySQL is a toy piece of garbage that lets you insert corrupt data
without so much as a peep.  Every other RDBMS known to man rejects
out-of-range data.  BUT, you say, MySQL5 allows you to set
STRICT_TRANS_TABLES and STRICT_ALL_TABLES.  Sure, but they can be
disabled on a per-process basis, which *still* allows you to insert
bad data.
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/constraint-invalid-data.html


PostgreSQL *might* be a bit harder to set up, but I doubt it.
Reading the docs and using the CLI, it's always been easy for me to
set things up.

$ su postfix
$ initdb --username=$THE_OWNER --pgdata=$TARGET_DIR
$ exit
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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Danesh Daroui]

David Baron wrote:
> I have an openoffice spreadsheet from which I want to generate two related 
> tables. I have tried most everything installed.
> 
> Stuff from OpenOffice will generate a database with table entries named by 
> the 
> first line in the spreadsheet. This can, indeed, be queried, sort of.
> 
> I would like to get this data into a Postgres or MySQL database. Using 
> pgadmin3, I cannot get a connection connected. Does not accept my password. 
> Their docs cited Debian problems here and recommended md5 authorization. 
> Tried that. No avail. One can also simply say trust (localhost only). No 
> avail.
> 
> How do I get started here?
> 
> 

Hi David,

MySQL is definitely best choice. If you have not still installed latest
version of MySQL do it as following:

apt-get install mysql-server

then activate your "root" user:

mysqladmin -u root password yournewpassword

then connect to any host:

mysql -h Host_IP_Address_Or_DNS -u username -p

to import your data to MySQL database, I would recommend to export your
data from OpenOffice spreadsheet or any other databases to SQL queries
form. Then run this file in batch mode by MySQL of course with a
username which has enough privileges or simply super user. MySQL will
execute all queries within the SQL file. Be ware that it is also
possible that you may need some modifications to your SQL file, however
they could be minor. To get more precise tip about how to change your
SQL file (if it is needed) check MySQL's error messages. They are
detailed and clear.

I hope it helps.

Danesh


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Re: Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[Clive Menzies]

On (31/01/07 19:17), David Baron wrote:
> I have an openoffice spreadsheet from which I want to generate two related 
> tables. I have tried most everything installed.
> 
> Stuff from OpenOffice will generate a database with table entries named by 
> the 
> first line in the spreadsheet. This can, indeed, be queried, sort of.
> 
> I would like to get this data into a Postgres or MySQL database. Using 
> pgadmin3, I cannot get a connection connected. Does not accept my password. 
> Their docs cited Debian problems here and recommended md5 authorization. 
> Tried that. No avail. One can also simply say trust (localhost only). No 
> avail.
> 
> How do I get started here?

It's been a while since I set up postgres but I recall you have to edit:

/etc/postgresql/pg_hba.conf:

edit METHOD for
# All other connections by UNIX sockets
 local all all md5

There are also issues in terms of setting at a user with the requisite
permissions; I think you need to create a new user with privileges

I found it easier to do some of this setup (of users and premissions)
staff using psql on the server.  You might also want to look at
phppgadmin which is quite good for setting up users and permissions.

Regards

Clive

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...strategies for business



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Getting started with Postgres or MySQL

[David Baron]

I have an openoffice spreadsheet from which I want to generate two related 
tables. I have tried most everything installed.

Stuff from OpenOffice will generate a database with table entries named by the 
first line in the spreadsheet. This can, indeed, be queried, sort of.

I would like to get this data into a Postgres or MySQL database. Using 
pgadmin3, I cannot get a connection connected. Does not accept my password. 
Their docs cited Debian problems here and recommended md5 authorization. 
Tried that. No avail. One can also simply say trust (localhost only). No 
avail.

How do I get started here?


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Re: postgres default username/password

[Ron Johnson]

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Hash: SHA1

On 01/27/07 12:24, Attila Horvath wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I downloaded pgAmin III so I can view my postgress DB remotely.
> 
> What is the default username/password where installed apt packages are
> managed?

Huh?

Do you mean the username and password of the database superuser?


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postgres default username/password

[Attila Horvath]

Hi

I downloaded pgAmin III so I can view my postgress DB remotely.

What is the default username/password where installed apt packages are managed?

Thx Attila


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Re: Problem in running postgres

[Abu Zaher]

On 1/15/07, Florian Kulzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Check if you have the following two lines in your
/etc/network/interfaces:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

Had 2 add 'auto lo' in that file as it was missing. This solved the

problem perfectly.

My utmost thanks 2 everyone.

Regards

--
Abu Zaher Md. Faridee
---
Time heals every wound, but time itself is a wound that never heals.

Re: Problem in running postgres

[Matt Zagrabelny]

On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 10:10 +0600, Abu Zaher wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm currnetly running Debian Sid. When my system boots up, I get this
> error:
> 
> psql: could not connect to server: No such file or directory Is the
> server running locally and accepting connections on Unix domain socket
> "/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"? 

i may be wrong here, but...

i dont believe unix domain sockets have anything to do with tcp/ip.

> So i cant run postgresql. Moreover, while I try 2 ping localhost, it
> does not respond.

thus, the fact that you cannot ping is disjoint and not important to
getting postgres to work with unix domain sockets.

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Information Technology Systems & Services
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Re: Problem in running postgres

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 20:46:59 +0600, Abu Zaher wrote:
> On 1/15/07, Douglas Tutty wrote:
> >
> >Is /etc/init.d/postgresql-8.1 starting __after__ networking?
> >
> >Yes, that's right. I found out that after my pc boots up, if i try iptraf,
> i cant see any lo, i.e. any loopback interfaces. Only after I run
> network-admin, i can se the lo, then if i try to run /etc/init.d/postgresql-
> 8.1 start, that works fine. I installed mysql  yesterday and it aslo shares
> the same problem i.e. cannot start up at boot. What is the main reason that
> my pc  is not loading up lo during boot-time?

Check if you have the following two lines in your
/etc/network/interfaces:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

This should bring it up automatically during boot.

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  Florian


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Re: Problem in running postgres

[Abu Zaher]

On 1/15/07, Douglas Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Is /etc/init.d/postgresql-8.1 starting __after__ networking?

Yes, that's right. I found out that after my pc boots up, if i try iptraf,

i cant see any lo, i.e. any loopback interfaces. Only after I run
network-admin, i can se the lo, then if i try to run /etc/init.d/postgresql-
8.1 start, that works fine. I installed mysql  yesterday and it aslo shares
the same problem i.e. cannot start up at boot. What is the main reason that
my pc  is not loading up lo during boot-time?

--
Abu Zaher Md. Faridee
---
Time heals every wound, but time itself is a wound that never heals.

Re: Problem in running postgres

[Douglas Tutty]

On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 10:10:59AM +0600, Abu Zaher wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm currnetly running Debian Sid. When my system boots up, I get this error:
> 
> psql: could not connect to server: No such file or directory Is the server
> running locally and accepting connections on Unix domain socket
> "/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?
> 
> So i cant run postgresql. Moreover, while I try 2 ping localhost, it does
> not respond. Then while after running my pc 4 some times, if i try 2 ping 2
> localhost, works, and /etc/init.d/postgresql-8.1 start also works. (and this
> does not work everytime) :O
> 
> I'm a newbie. Can someone explain this?

Hi.

How long do you have to wait?

Is /etc/init.d/postgresql-8.1 starting __after__ networking?

What does syslog show during the time in question?

Doug.


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Problem in running postgres

[Abu Zaher]

Hi,

I'm currnetly running Debian Sid. When my system boots up, I get this error:

psql: could not connect to server: No such file or directory Is the server
running locally and accepting connections on Unix domain socket
"/var/run/postgresql/.s.PGSQL.5432"?

So i cant run postgresql. Moreover, while I try 2 ping localhost, it does
not respond. Then while after running my pc 4 some times, if i try 2 ping 2
localhost, works, and /etc/init.d/postgresql-8.1 start also works. (and this
does not work everytime) :O

I'm a newbie. Can someone explain this?

Regards


--
Abu Zaher Md. Faridee
---
Time heals every wound, but time itself is a wound that never heals.

postgres installation on debian

[Iuri Sampaio]

Hi everyone,

 

I’m trying to remove postgresql-8.1 form my box and I get this error
message:

I already tried to change the user id and group id from the file
“/etc/passwd” and “/etc/group”. 

But it didn’t work. Does anyone know how to fix that?

 

iuri

 

conaje:~# apt-get remove –f --purge postgresql-8.1 postgresql-dev
postgresql-doc-8.1

Reading Package Lists... Done

Building Dependency Tree... Done

Package postgresql-dev is not installed, so not removed

Package postgresql-doc-8.1 is not installed, so not removed

The following packages will be REMOVED:

  postgresql-8.1*

0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 135 not upgraded.

1 not fully installed or removed.

Need to get 0B of archives.

After unpacking 12.7MB disk space will be freed.

Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n

Abort.

conaje:~# apt-get remove –f postgresql-8.1 postgresql-dev postgresql-doc-8.1

Reading Package Lists... Done

Building Dependency Tree... Done

Package postgresql-dev is not installed, so not removed

Package postgresql-doc-8.1 is not installed, so not removed

The following packages will be REMOVED:

  postgresql-8.1

0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 135 not upgraded.

1 not fully installed or removed.

Need to get 0B of archives.

After unpacking 12.7MB disk space will be freed.

Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y

(Reading database ... 21765 files and directories currently installed.)

Removing postgresql-8.1 ...

Stopping PostgreSQL 8.1 database server: main* Error: The cluster is owned
by group id 32 which does not exist any more

 failed!

invoke-rc.d: initscript postgresql-8.1, action "stop" failed.

dpkg: error processing postgresql-8.1 (--remove):

 subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 1

Starting PostgreSQL 8.1 database server: main* Error: The cluster is owned
by group id 32 which does not exist any more

 failed!

invoke-rc.d: initscript postgresql-8.1, action "start" failed.

dpkg: error while cleaning up:

 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1

Errors were encountered while processing:

 postgresql-8.1

E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

 

   _  

From: Iuri Sampaio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:16 AM
To: 'debian-user@lists.debian.org'
Subject: RE: users info

 

Just got it. “/etc/passwd”

 

 

Thanks anyway

iuri

 

   _  

From: Iuri Sampaio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:08 AM
To: 'debian-user@lists.debian.org'
Subject: users info

 

Hi everyone

 

What’s the file where the users info are located? Passwords, ids, …

I need to change the user id of my postgres user.

 

iuri


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Re: moodle config tips? (or, PHP vs POSTGRES?)

[Jay Zach]

On Thursday 09 March 2006 12:22 pm, will trillich wrote:
> On 3/8/06, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > will trillich wrote:
> > > having a bit of trouble getting moodle off the ground -- any pointers
> > > are welcome.
> >
> > This may sound dumb, but did you bother to read the README.Debian file?
> >  I just took a look at it and it gives reasonably clear instructions on
> > getting moodle up and running with psql.
>
> yup, we bothered. first sentence is "The application should be
> available at http://localhost/moodle/ after install". except no sign
> of life, save for apache serving up zero-length responses. no errors,
> no redirects, no clues.
>
> we did add "allow from 192.168.0.0/16" to the apache conf (otherwise
> we'd get permission denied when browsing from any other box).
>
> whether pg_hba has the original-install settings of
> local   all all   ident sameuser
> hostall all 127.0.0.1/32  md5
> or the README recommendations of
> local   all all   password
> hostall all   127.0.0.1     255.255.255.255   password
> seems to matter not a whit. no difference in results -- empty either way.
>
> we made sure postgres db user had a password, and used that to add
> other users (for our own logins).
>
> during the install, the moodle database was created and the moodle
> user exists, too. but there are no tables, no columns, no data.
>
> SOMEWHERE there's gotta a log file with helpful info in it. we haven't
> found it yet. any ideas?
>
> --
> will trillich
> "Their iz ate errers in these sentance."


Did you make a symbolic link to /usr/share/moodle under /var/www ?
I have to do that with all debian web-type programs I install.

BBM:/var/www# ls -l moodle
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root www-data 18 Jul 12  2005 moodle -> /usr/share/moodle/




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Friday Mar 17, 2006





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Re: moodle config tips? (or, PHP vs POSTGRES?)

[will trillich]

On 3/8/06, will trillich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> having a bit of trouble getting moodle off the ground -- any pointers
> are welcome.
>
> after installing it we browse to localhost/moodle/admin and get
> NOTHING. here's a telnet session to illustrate:
>
> telnet localhost 80
> 
> GET /moodle/admin/ HTTP/1.1
> Host: localhost.localdomain
>
> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:37:46 GMT
> Server: Apache/2.0.54 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2
> X-Powered-By: PHP/5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2
> Transfer-Encoding: chunked
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
>
> 0
>
> Connection closed by foreign host.
>
> that's all we get, period, from any php, no matter where in the moodle
> tree we go!
>
> we put  at the top of the apache tree and all seems well, there.

except now we see that phpinfo includes

'--with-zlib' '--without-pgsql'

how do we enable postgresql-from-php? we've installed the various php stuff:

ii  libapache2-mod-php5   5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2  PHP 5
scripting language - apache 2.0 module
ii  php5-pgsql    5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2 
PostgreSQL module for php5

what are we missing? php isn't talking to postgres (or to mysql)!

--
will trillich
"Their iz ate errers in these sentance."

Re: moodle config tips? (or, PHP vs POSTGRES?)

[will trillich]

On 3/8/06, Roberto C. Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> will trillich wrote:
> > having a bit of trouble getting moodle off the ground -- any pointers
> > are welcome.


> This may sound dumb, but did you bother to read the README.Debian file?
>  I just took a look at it and it gives reasonably clear instructions on
> getting moodle up and running with psql.

yup, we bothered. first sentence is "The application should be
available at http://localhost/moodle/ after install". except no sign
of life, save for apache serving up zero-length responses. no errors,
no redirects, no clues.

we did add "allow from 192.168.0.0/16" to the apache conf (otherwise
we'd get permission denied when browsing from any other box).

whether pg_hba has the original-install settings of
local   all all   ident sameuser
hostall all 127.0.0.1/32  md5
or the README recommendations of
local   all all   password
hostall all   127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255   password
seems to matter not a whit. no difference in results -- empty either way.

we made sure postgres db user had a password, and used that to add
other users (for our own logins).

during the install, the moodle database was created and the moodle
user exists, too. but there are no tables, no columns, no data.

SOMEWHERE there's gotta a log file with helpful info in it. we haven't
found it yet. any ideas?

--
will trillich
"Their iz ate errers in these sentance."

Re: moodle config tips? (or, PHP vs POSTGRES?)

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

will trillich wrote:
> having a bit of trouble getting moodle off the ground -- any pointers
> are welcome.
> 
> after installing it we browse to localhost/moodle/admin and get
> NOTHING. here's a telnet session to illustrate:
> 
> telnet localhost 80
> 
> GET /moodle/admin/ HTTP/1.1
> Host: localhost.localdomain
> 
> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:37:46 GMT
> Server: Apache/2.0.54 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2
> X-Powered-By: PHP/5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2
> Transfer-Encoding: chunked
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 0
> 
> Connection closed by foreign host.
> 
> that's all we get, period, from any php, no matter where in the moodle
> tree we go!
> 
> we put  at the top of the apache tree and all seems well, there.
> 
> during apt-get install, the moodle database (and user) gets created,
> with no tables. visiting /moodle/admin generates zero-length response
> from the php, and no further setup to the database.
> 
> what other kinds of things can we try, to get this moving forward?
> 
> ===
> 
> when we browse to something like localhost/moodle/admin (without the
> trailing slash) apache2 correctly redirects us to
> localhost/moodle/admin/ (with the trailing slash). that much is
> working.
> 
> we checked out moodle/doc/install.html (which apache serves up nice as
> you please) and all the way down to step 8 is pretty much taken care
> of by the apt-get install process. (we did add "AcceptPathInfo on"
> according to the instrux, as we're using apache2.)
> 
> haven't found anything informative in the postgres logs, at all, and
> apache logs reflect that it's doing what it's asked to do. php appears
> to not be talking to postgres, with no error messages anywhere.
> 
> ideas?
> 
> ===
> 
> $ psql -V
> psql (PostgreSQL) 8.0.6
> [also tried psql (PostgreSQL) 7.4.8, no difference]
> 
> $ apache2 -v
> Server version: Apache/2.0.54
> Server built:   Jan  7 2006 13:49:30
> 
> tried both libapache2-mod-php4 and libapache2-mod-php5, same results.
> php[45]-pgsql are both installed.
> 
> aaugh!
> 

This may sound dumb, but did you bother to read the README.Debian file?
 I just took a look at it and it gives reasonably clear instructions on
getting moodle up and running with psql.

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto


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moodle config tips? (or, PHP vs POSTGRES?)

[will trillich]

having a bit of trouble getting moodle off the ground -- any pointers
are welcome.

after installing it we browse to localhost/moodle/admin and get
NOTHING. here's a telnet session to illustrate:

telnet localhost 80

GET /moodle/admin/ HTTP/1.1
Host: localhost.localdomain

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:37:46 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.54 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.1.2-1.dotdeb.2
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

0

Connection closed by foreign host.

that's all we get, period, from any php, no matter where in the moodle
tree we go!

we put  at the top of the apache tree and all seems well, there.

during apt-get install, the moodle database (and user) gets created,
with no tables. visiting /moodle/admin generates zero-length response
from the php, and no further setup to the database.

what other kinds of things can we try, to get this moving forward?

===

when we browse to something like localhost/moodle/admin (without the
trailing slash) apache2 correctly redirects us to
localhost/moodle/admin/ (with the trailing slash). that much is
working.

we checked out moodle/doc/install.html (which apache serves up nice as
you please) and all the way down to step 8 is pretty much taken care
of by the apt-get install process. (we did add "AcceptPathInfo on"
according to the instrux, as we're using apache2.)

haven't found anything informative in the postgres logs, at all, and
apache logs reflect that it's doing what it's asked to do. php appears
to not be talking to postgres, with no error messages anywhere.

ideas?

===

$ psql -V
psql (PostgreSQL) 8.0.6
[also tried psql (PostgreSQL) 7.4.8, no difference]

$ apache2 -v
Server version: Apache/2.0.54
Server built:   Jan  7 2006 13:49:30

tried both libapache2-mod-php4 and libapache2-mod-php5, same results.
php[45]-pgsql are both installed.

aaugh!

--
will trillich
"Their iz ate errers in these sentance."

Re: Postgres question

[Maurits van Rees]

On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 06:25:52PM -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> The 7.2 and 7,4 directories contain conf files, libraries and binaries
> that appear like they belong to postgres.  The stuff under preserve is
> obviously a backup from when I upgraded from Woody to Sarge.  My
> question is, how do I get rid of the extra stuff?  The dumpall and
> preserve subdirectories take up more than half of the space in
> /var/lib/postgres.

I don't have those dirs on my system and I do have postgres installed.

$ sudo find /var/lib/postgres/ -type d
/var/lib/postgres/
/var/lib/postgres/data
/var/lib/postgres/data/base
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/1
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/17141
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/97564
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/98066
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/107641
/var/lib/postgres/data/global
/var/lib/postgres/data/pg_clog
/var/lib/postgres/data/pg_xlog

I would guess you can delete those subdirectories you mention.  Well,
first save them somewhere of course.  An

apt-file search /var/lib/postgres/dumpall

and

apt-file search /var/lib/postgres/preserve

didn't return any results.

Reading /usr/share/doc/postgresql/README.Debian.migration.gz and
scanning the files that come up in:

grep -r "/var/lib/postgres/dumpall" /usr/lib/postgresql/

suggests that this dumpall directory is only used for upgrades.  If
the upgrade to a next postgres version has succeeded, it can be
removed.  Do sacrifice a cd for a backup of course. :)

-- 
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"It can seem like you're doing just fine,
but the creep's creeping into your mind." - Neal Morse


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Postgres question

[Roberto C. Sanchez]

I have the following directory structure under /var/lib/postgres on my
server:

$ sudo find /var/lib/postgres/ -type d
/var/lib/postgres/
/var/lib/postgres/data
/var/lib/postgres/data/base
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/1
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/17141
/var/lib/postgres/data/base/17142
/var/lib/postgres/data/global
/var/lib/postgres/data/pg_clog
/var/lib/postgres/data/pg_xlog
/var/lib/postgres/dumpall
/var/lib/postgres/dumpall/7.2
/var/lib/postgres/dumpall/7.4
/var/lib/postgres/dumpall/unknown
/var/lib/postgres/preserve
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/base
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/base/1
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/base/16555
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/base/16558
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/global
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/pg_clog
/var/lib/postgres/preserve/data.7.2.1-2woody8.save/pg_xlog

The 7.2 and 7,4 directories contain conf files, libraries and binaries
that appear like they belong to postgres.  The stuff under preserve is
obviously a backup from when I upgraded from Woody to Sarge.  My
question is, how do I get rid of the extra stuff?  The dumpall and
preserve subdirectories take up more than half of the space in
/var/lib/postgres.

I have tried searching with Google, but all of the hits talk about
upgrading from one version to another of Postgres and none of them ever
talk about removing the backed up data.  I imagine that it has something
to do with the backups being created as part of the Debian-specific
package upgrade process.

Any suggestions?

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://familiasanchez.net/~roberto


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Re: Embedded SQL with Postgres

[Frank Gevaerts]

On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 03:13:54PM +0200, Stephan Meyen wrote:
> Gregory Seidman wrote:
> > If you must use embedded SQL, the libecpg-dev package includes/depends
> > on the necessary libraries, headers, and ESQL preprocessor (ecpg).
> > 
> 
> No, I have already tried that package...

According to packages.debian.org, libecpg-dev contains
/usr/lib/postgresql/8.0/bin/ecpg in unstable, and /usr/bin/ecpg in stable.

Frank

-- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan


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Re: Embedded SQL with Postgres

[Stephan Meyen]

Gregory Seidman wrote:

> Are you compiling legacy embedded SQL, or are you developing new code?
> Embedded SQL was one of those bad ideas that existed because there was
> nothing better at the time. Nowadays I'd recommend using either ODBC
> (see unixodbc, unixodbc-bin, unixodbc-dev, and odbc-postgresql) or
> something like Qt's DB support.

It's for my master thesis so I never doubted to use some DBS-specific
proprietary mechnism to store my data.

> If you must use embedded SQL, the libecpg-dev package includes/depends
> on the necessary libraries, headers, and ESQL preprocessor (ecpg).
> 

No, I have already tried that package...

Stephan


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