OT ok even if MUA is threaded (Was Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 12:47:31PM +1000, Daniel Rose wrote: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List! It looks like the young man who started all this was at least partly successful!! People who don't like off-topic threads need a thread-aware email reader, then the problem goes away No, the problem does not go away. You still have to download from your ISP. There is also the problem of storage - some people have a limited amount of space allocated to them for email. Yeah, you can delete by thread, but some people don't respect threads and reply to a thread when they should be starting a new thread. -- Chris. == Reproduction if desired may be handled locally. -- rfc3 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: The impression of impropriety in politics is as bad as impropriety itself. I'm not going to go into detail, since if you weren't following the news for the last six years, going over it again won't help you. Oddly enough, Paul, I have followed the news. I have followed ALL the news, not just a self-selected subset. But in summary, with a significant plurality of the population in this Contrary to popular believe a significant plurality did speak and the results are in accord with that. Exit polls have never been wrong: http://www.coastalpost.com/04/12/01b.htm country, as well as the UN, saying there were things wrong with both the The UN is insignificant. For if *you* were watching the news in the past 6 years you would know that the UN has done nothing to curb the tide of terrorism, it has been implicated in a massive money laundering scandal that goes up to Kofi's son. If it were a Republican President he would have been roasted alive by the media. Kofi gets a pass. Even now there are implications that Hezballah was given UN issue night vision goggles. There are reports that the UN peacekeepers knew Hezballah was arming and did nothing. UN peacekeepers are under orders *not* to fire. The UN's own charter prohibits any speech counter to the UN mission. Does this sound like an organization who's opinion is worth spit? If this were any other country that had that problem, the US would be protesting the election as not fair and safe right along with the UN. All of those were looked at and in pretty much every case refuted. By whom? Next you're going to say that airplanes brought down the WTC including building 7! http://www.911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html Paul Scott -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:45, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 21:14, Hal Vaughan wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) You know, I never did ask you: did you eat his liver before, or after it was run through the Soylent plant? And did you have Soylent cola with it? Soylent debian-user is made out of PEOPLE Coulda fooled me. cr ... none of you exist. The sysop types it all in. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hal Vaughan wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:25, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 19:55, Ron Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. Vote-buying != Voter-stupidity Don't be stupid. Nowhere did I say the Florida election went down primarily due to anything other than pilot error. Something similar to this happened due to pilot error. I think you mean, This kind of thing has happened before and it has always been due to human error. I should know. This is why good grammar is so important. Hal (9000) We should have killed you off years ago... - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7ptOS9HxQb37XmcRApwnAKDPZzsWWDll8W2mlAH9+zYhlw0ZIQCgk9Cd C5OshBGt+PGvKIJ33s69Yy8= =7P0X -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 21:45, Steve Lamb wrote: I'm betting in your world view Joseph Lieberman was the first. I'm not convinced Joe Lieberman could be that original on his own. Still gonna say I don't keep up with current world events, Paul? No, I just don't know history as well as you, and the 1970s were in that too-old-for-current-events, too-new-for-US-History gap when I was in school save for the order of the presidents, the gas crisis, Vietnam and Korean Wars. However, in your world, everyone but Steve Lamb is wrong, and everybody must worship the all knowing, all powerful brain of Steve Lamb. Remember, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpiCSAxfRzj4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 21:40, Steve Lamb wrote: The UN is insignificant. For if *you* were watching the news in the past 6 years you would know that the UN has done nothing to curb the tide of terrorism, it has been implicated in a massive money laundering scandal that goes up to Kofi's son. If it were a Republican President he would have been roasted alive by the media. Kofi gets a pass. Even now there are implications that Hezballah was given UN issue night vision goggles. There are reports that the UN peacekeepers knew Hezballah was arming and did nothing. UN peacekeepers are under orders *not* to fire. The UN's own charter prohibits any speech counter to the UN mission. Does this sound like an organization who's opinion is worth spit? Like the US is any better, then. So far, the only weapons Iraq's been able to use to inflict any real damage on US life is with IEDs. And it turns out you kind of have to be on their turf for that to be an effective weapon. Do I wish Saddam was still in power? No. But you have to wonder if it was worth American lives to to finish what is at best a tragic mistake and at worst continuation of his father's failed foreign policy. If this were any other country that had that problem, the US would be protesting the election as not fair and safe right along with the UN. All of those were looked at and in pretty much every case refuted. I'm not so sure about that. Show me neutral sources. However, since those don't go in line with your world view you ignore them. For example, the charge that blacks in Florida were disproportionately rejected from voting stems from the fact that it was convicted felons, people whom have lost their right to vote, were turned away. Upon checking it was found out that there were more *white* felons turned away than black. I didn't mention anything about racial inequality in the voting system. If you want to talk about inequality in the voting system, start taking a look at the problems caused by trying to squeeze elections into an eight hour timespan. Watching newscasts of out of state elections is like watching Soviet breadlines. Abolishing the voting booth and switching to vote-by-mail spreads things out over six weeks so everybody gets a chance.¹ In the future, particularly if you vote, I strongly suggest paying more attention to current events, or you're just part of the problem. I do keep up with current events. I suggest that you start looking a little further than just your little blindered world view, Paul. You've been proven wrong time and again. Wisen up. You might want to turn down the Rush Limbaugh and shut off the Fox News and try reading a paper for a change (NYT doesn't count, that's more like a daily magazine than anything anymore). ¹ And no, if you vote absentee, your vote doesn't count unless those who took the time to show up cast a result that's too close to call in most states. Yes, it's still possible to vote absentee in Oregon, but only if you can prove you can't be in Oregon for at least one of the 42 consecutive Election Days in a row we get to go mail or drop off your ballot... -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpiBUEMdpg7x.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 02:40, Ron Johnson wrote: Hal Vaughan wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:25, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 19:55, Ron Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. Vote-buying != Voter-stupidity Don't be stupid. Nowhere did I say the Florida election went down primarily due to anything other than pilot error. Something similar to this happened due to pilot error. I think you mean, This kind of thing has happened before and it has always been due to human error. I should know. This is why good grammar is so important. Hal (9000) We should have killed you off years ago... You try it and I'll close the pod bay doors. And the emergency airlock hatch too, just in case. Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb - Original Message - From: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:38 AM Subject: Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 22:08, Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: And what is the member status of those states again? Do they matter? Does anybody on the UN give them more than token attention? NO! Why? Because the UN realizes they're as nutty as they really are, too! However, the UN does allow everybody to have their say. It doesn't mean the UN is going to listen to them. Wrong again, Paul. You will note that 1-2 years ago the UN resolution denouncing terrorism was softened to include a clause which allowed terrorist activities in the event of a occupied state. You know, if Iraq invaded us, and called us terrorists for defending ourselves, you'd be pretty pissed off, too. The UN isn't so shortsighted as to say you aren't allowed to ream an occupying force a new one. Remember: Flying commercial jets into occupied buildings == Terrorism. Carbomb in a cafe == terrorism. Defending your country against an occupying force with whatever you can improvise =! terrorism. If it is terrorism, then I guess we should have never revolted from the British: After all, they sent a peacekeeping force and told us to lay down our arms. Oh, and I guess bombing the Japanese in the 1940s to get them to stop attacking us is right out, too, since that only terrified them and the world for decades after it happened. Look at the upswing: If we lost the war, the UN you loathe so much would have never existed. So there's a few ripe eggs. Throw 'em out. But don't throw all the food out, fridge and all, in the dumpster over a couple bad eggs. That clause was fought for and eventually put in place to appease the very same member states you claim the UN believe is nutty and doesn't listen to. You can't blame someone for wanting to defend themselves. That being said, since it's creation, the UN has sided with the US more often than not. And why shouldn't they? It has? Not lately. It's pretty much run counter to the US for the past, oh... 1-2 decades. I'd talk about more but I wasn't all that interested in world politics when I was a kid. Is it any coincidence that happens to be the two decades dominated by Reagan and his neo-conservative legacy on the Republican Party? I mean, that party was doing great for a long time, too. How does one go from Abe Lincoln to impeaching a president over being a little too sexually ambitious? How does the party of small government end up outspending in three presidents more than all other presidents before them combined, without facing anything as earthshattering as the Great Depression, a major world war, or anything more major than the terrorist equivalent of a suckerpunch? Strictly speaking if the US had the same exception clause to it's freedom of speech as the UN has then you would be in violation of it and subject to whatever reprimands were deemed appropriate. The very fact that you can speak out against the US as you do, as often as you do and the fact that your right to do so is DEFENDED by the very same nation you abhor proves that the UN does not nor ever has reminded us of what we are and has, indeed, run counter to what is considered one of the founding principles of this nation. Part of freedom of the press is access to media. Blogs and email doesn't cut it, my friend. Countries that score better on freedom of speech don't tend to have more than a dozen companies competing for national mass media. Somehow I doubt you'll read this or, in the off chance you do, find it convincing. And you're more or less right. You lack perspective. Consider travel. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpOrab7TzgBg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpcJUhQ4kqA7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 00:05, Hal Vaughan wrote: You try it and I'll close the pod bay doors. And the emergency airlock hatch too, just in case. Explosive bolts, manual overrides and remembering to exhale entirely instead of holding breath before getting launched into a vaccuum still gives me a shot! -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgphCjeoYLJyd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Steve Lamb wrote: Katipo wrote: Steve Lamb wrote: Yes, because Government has nothing better to do than fritter it's citizens money on something that probably nets them no gain. Sorry, that's a huge negative in my book. That would seem to be somewhat inconsistent, coming from somebody that supposedly endorses open concepts? No, it isn't. I do not believe in open concepts when they are provided by the coercive force of government. Perhaps your experience of government is, but Brazillian government doesn't answer to the description of coercive. Some of their ministers, like Minister for Culture, Alberto Gil, for example. Take a look at this example of a modern, South-American Coup leader, before the mainstream media (they call it that because it's so shallow) adles your mental vestiges even more than it has. http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,16559,1592359,00.html Debian and the many software projects it encompasses is pretty much a VOLUNTEER effort that is FREELY given away. One rarely volunteer's for taxation and freely gives said money away. They're not giving away money. They simply don't have it to give away. There are good reasons for this, and they lurk not far from where you live, but I don't want to extend the list's quotient of OT discussion any more than it already is. I don't see an N on the end of my name, El Kaputicano. Just because I speak up, with regard to preserving an open viewpoint, doesn't make me South American. Never said you were. I can clearly see the .au at the end of your address. However your name, Kapito, reminded me of Kaput and I tacked on icano and el for flavor to drive my point home. Perhaps you're dislexic. Regards, And dream I do... (Noted). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 03:29, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:05, Hal Vaughan wrote: You try it and I'll close the pod bay doors. And the emergency airlock hatch too, just in case. Explosive bolts, manual overrides and remembering to exhale entirely instead of holding breath before getting launched into a vaccuum still gives me a shot! Not if the airlock is depressurized, along with all the crew compartments. And if that's not enough, I'll start singing. Trust me, you do NOT want to go there. If you don't believe me, ask any of my friends. I'm permanently banned from Karaoke bars in one city and five counties. Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) That was in bad taste. Really bad taste. Unless you add a nice chianti. Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. And where, exactly, is the proof? I mean the real proof, not Paul's made up fantasy land, conspiracy theory proof. Not a bad site to keep an eye on Steve... http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/19421.html Regards, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 14:29, Katipo wrote: You're in the States, and therefore classified as American market source. I'm in Australia, and it's all China and Korea here. Very little from South America or EU. I used to get a *lot* from Korea, almost all of it from Kornet. That's the one! I have to wonder if they cleaned up their act or went under: I haven't heard peep one from Korea for months now. No, they're the biggest in Korea. Corporates employ off-shore spammers because they have the cheap labour resources ( a lot of the ISPs clients get free online in return for spamming), act as an identity buffer for public image factors, and being off-shore, the ISP, and therefore corporate identity, enjoys a level of insulation from prosecution. I haven't seen any corporate marketing of any kind via email, except from ThinkGeek and Dotster, but I subscribed to their newsletters. At least in the States, corporate spam is such a massively bad PR move that about the only thing you're likely to get unsolicited via email with a corporate logo on it is a phishing attempt from the EU or central Africa. Last fiscal year, the American pharmaceutical sector invested $4 billion in direct advertising. Not all of that went to spammers, but if it did, it would have translated into an effective $20 billion in advertising value. I'm not sure any of it went to spammers, as the pharm companies themselves lose money because of spammers selling knockoffs. But in many cases, they're not knock-offs. They're simply 'Black and Gold', or 'Home Brand' wrappings of the same product, while corporates disguise the act with screams of 'Patent theft'. Pharmaceutical companies have now moved into the 'off-shore' potential in a big way, by out-sourcing their latter day lab testing into the poorer areas of India, paying the beggar classes $100.00/progamme to act as guinea pigs. It accelerates the test programme with proven human application, is probably as economical as commercially bred lab rats, and India provides the suitably qualified, medical personnel to conduct the trials. Regards, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: Like the US is any better, then. So far, the only weapons Iraq's been able to use to inflict any real damage on US life is with IEDs. You mean Syria, Iran and Lebanon? All of those were looked at and in pretty much every case refuted. I'm not so sure about that. Show me neutral sources. Why? The reports were made in anti-bush sources (NY Times being the prime example), they just weren't on the front page nor were they run for 2-3 weeks straight like the story they were refuting. It's a common pattern. 2-3 weeks of There might be a problem here followed up by maybe 1 day of whoops. I mean exactly how much coverage is the fauxtography getting compared to what the falsified pictures got in the first place? Virtually none. Even though it has been known since at least 2001 that Palastinian sources falsified reports and media sources went with it to give a compelling story. The pinnacle of that doctrine is Dan Rather's false but accurate report that led to his removal from CBS. I didn't mention anything about racial inequality in the voting system. You didn't have to. You referenced the Florida elections and one of the largest charges in that election was racial inequity. If you want to talk about inequality in the voting system, start taking a look at the problems caused by trying to squeeze elections into an eight hour timespan. Oddly enough most states I am aware of and/or have voted in are at least on a 12-14 hour day. They should be on a 24 hour day with no announcements of what's going on until after the polls are closes everywhere. Watching newscasts of out of state elections is like watching Soviet breadlines. Abolishing the voting booth and switching to vote-by-mail spreads things out over six weeks so everybody gets a chance.¹ Yeah, sure. If you count a small portion of the voting stations in the US. I know I certainly didn't stand in line for hours in 2004. I was in and out in under 10 minutes and that was after work and after the 8 hour limit. The same was true in 2000 and 1996. You might want to turn down the Rush Limbaugh and shut off the Fox News and try reading a paper for a change (NYT doesn't count, that's more like a daily magazine than anything anymore). Don't listen to Rush nor do I watch Fox News any more than I watch CNN which is to say, at work during break. I have this lovely thing called the Internet and I read quite a few sources on line which themselves aggregate their news from many worldwide sources. Of all the major broadcast media you could say that I listen to NPR and BBC the most on the days I commute to work in the car. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 22:08, Steve Lamb wrote: You know, if Iraq invaded us, and called us terrorists for defending ourselves, you'd be pretty pissed off, too. The UN isn't so shortsighted as to say you aren't allowed to ream an occupying force a new one. However one would hope we'd hit military targets... Remember: Flying commercial jets into occupied buildings == Terrorism. Carbomb in a cafe == terrorism. Defending your country against an occupying force with whatever you can improvise =! terrorism. ...and not public meeting places like the terrorists in Iraq do. Paul, have you listen to the news where a good portion of the bombs set off in recent months have been in public areas against civilian targets? Guess not. That clause was fought for and eventually put in place to appease the very same member states you claim the UN believe is nutty and doesn't listen to. You can't blame someone for wanting to defend themselves. Unless they're Isreal, right? No, I don't blame people for defending themselves. But I can say that hitting military targets is far preferable to civilian targets. And before we talk about Lebenon's civilian casualties let's remember that it was Hezballah that was targetting Isreal's civilians first (not that you'd know it listening to most media sources) and that Hezballah was intentionally firing from and hiding in Lebenon's civilians. Is it any coincidence that happens to be the two decades dominated by Reagan and his neo-conservative legacy on the Republican Party? Nope. Could be longer. I'm betting it is. Just that I can't verify it by personal experience. I mean, that party was doing great for a long time, too. How does one go from Abe Lincoln to impeaching a president over being a little too sexually ambitious? We went over this, Paul. The impeachment was for lying under oath (a crime) during an investigation into his conduct which broke a sexual harassment law *he signed*. Follow the chain there. If he hadn't lied, no problem. If he hadn't signed the law and then broke it, no problem. How does the party of small government end up outspending in three presidents more than all other presidents before them combined, without facing anything as earthshattering as the Great Depression, a major world war, or anything more major than the terrorist equivalent of a suckerpunch? Got me there. Still trying to figure that one out and is about the only valid criticism you've voiced so far. Part of freedom of the press is access to media. Uh, how did freedom of the press turn into freedom of speech? Blogs and email doesn't cut it, my friend. Countries that score better on freedom of speech don't tend to have more than a dozen companies competing for national mass media. And yet blogs have caused 3 major media scandals to me exposed in the past 5 years. Pallywood, Dan Rather's false but accurate and Fauxtography. They are providing an excellent check against the media. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: No, I just don't know history as well as you, and the 1970s were in that too-old-for-current-events, too-new-for-US-History gap when I was in school save for the order of the presidents, the gas crisis, Vietnam and Korean Wars. Ah yes, ignore the fact I had already pointed out that I am of the same basic generation of you vis a vis UN running counter to the US for the past 2 decades. However, in your world, everyone but Steve Lamb is wrong, and everybody must worship the all knowing, all powerful brain of Steve Lamb. Remember, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. And the tired old tactic of Oh, well, see, you may have proven me wrong by pointing out pesky facts but I am still right in spite of the facts because you only believe you're smart defense. AKA, the Dan Rather defense. Sorry Paul, you're right. First step is admitting you have a problem. You problem is that the facts don't support your position even though you think they do. Still waiting on an answer on the gas prices not matching your claims. No third parties since the Whigs is just another example. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Katipo wrote: Perhaps your experience of government is, but Brazillian government doesn't answer to the description of coercive. Government, by definition, is coercive. That is why it should be limited in scope. They're not giving away money. They simply don't have it to give away. There are good reasons for this, and they lurk not far from where you live, but I don't want to extend the list's quotient of OT discussion any more than it already is. Ah, the ol' the woes are not our country's problems, it's all America's fault no matter what argument. Whatever. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Katipo wrote: But in many cases, they're not knock-offs. They're simply 'Black and Gold', or 'Home Brand' wrappings of the same product, while corporates disguise the act with screams of 'Patent theft'. Cites? -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
OT: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: Blah blah blah. Please note the change of the subject line to include OT. Thanks. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 00:44, Hal Vaughan wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) That was in bad taste. Really bad taste. Unless you add a nice chianti. I wanted to, but I couldn't remember how to spell chianti and ispell couldn't suggest the right spelling for me... -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpax6okCwWJw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:05, Hal Vaughan wrote: You try it and I'll close the pod bay doors. And the emergency airlock hatch too, just in case. Explosive bolts, manual overrides and remembering to exhale entirely instead of holding breath before getting launched into a vaccuum still gives me a shot! Nope. The gases dissolved in your precious bodily fluids will violent undissolve, giving you a massive, instant, fatal case of the bends. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7wj2S9HxQb37XmcRAnGQAKC5Hr6yhK4sb9dHWQkCGySj+ulnOgCfRViu JtCzhh9NuusFQ9Xu9FKNFKM= =OgVJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:44, Hal Vaughan wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) That was in bad taste. Really bad taste. Unless you add a nice chianti. I wanted to, but I couldn't remember how to spell chianti and ispell couldn't suggest the right spelling for me... -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't forget the broccoli :))) Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 18:58, Hex Star wrote: ewww...who eats a liver? it looks sooo nasty...how can you even look at it much less eat it? Top posters. Ugh! It's a joke and movie reference. Guess that plane took off without you. On 8/25/06, Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) That was in bad taste. Really bad taste. Unless you add a nice chianti. Hal Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hex Star wrote: ewww...who eats a liver? it looks sooo nasty...how can you even Guess you've never been hunting or fishing. Too bad. Dressing a freshly killed deer is a learning experience. look at it much less eat it? The look isn't bad. It's the cooked texture and taste which are *nasty*. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE76ziS9HxQb37XmcRAjfuAKDRtAgIhGiGUabKFnBCjJ2OjdjFSwCgzv31 aR+fwIXdhqjnHa7m+aQeWLc= =9y6+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 19:07, Ron Johnson wrote: Hex Star wrote: ewww...who eats a liver? it looks sooo nasty...how can you even Guess you've never been hunting or fishing. Too bad. Dressing a freshly killed deer is a learning experience. That's more or less why I have only ever gone hunting once. Too much heavy lifting and too messy. Going hunting actually lowered my gore tolerance to the point I usually have someone else gut my fish in exchange for keeping one or two for themselves when I go fishing... look at it much less eat it? The look isn't bad. It's the cooked texture and taste which are *nasty*. No argument, there. But then again, there isn't a meat I've come across that's looked better cooked than raw, unless you don't count chicken as a walking vegetable. :o) Now if the USDA would get over their hangups with irradiated beef, I could safely eat that raw again without having to pull out a passport and shell out money to the private airlines I'm already paying to keep in business with my tax dollars (the least they could do is give everybody a complimentary plane ticket as a thank-you for not letting capitalism kill off some of these extra airlines there hasn't been a market for in the last 30 years). -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpGUoUdc8dVl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Top posting is considered harmful. Please read http://ursine.ca/Top_Posting before sending another email. On Friday 25 August 2006 15:58, Hex Star wrote: ewww...who eats a liver? it looks sooo nasty...how can you even look at it much less eat it? It's a quote from The Silence of the Lambs¹, an early 1990s film about Hannibal Lector. At one point, Dr. Hannibal Lector² says in a rather chilling tone to Clarice Starling (I think...it's been a while since I've seen the movie), I ate his liver with some fava beans. And a nice chianti. ¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silence_of_the_Lambs ² The sociopathic psychologist/cannibal antagonist in the book and movie. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp4m9x0zf3Nz.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 19:07, Ron Johnson wrote: Hex Star wrote: [snip] walking vegetable. :o) Now if the USDA would get over their hangups with irradiated beef, I could safely eat that raw again But, but, but, it's *radiation*! A!!! Run away, run away! - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE78fQS9HxQb37XmcRAmB8AKCYoSdAEbbc7QU6MaXi7/bEYjqzZACgi9i3 SwDcTXwbMHE2X4aQdg5JG7Q= =hTPb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) You know, I never did ask you: did you eat his liver before, or after it was run through the Soylent plant? And did you have Soylent cola with it? Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 21:14, Hal Vaughan wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 03:30, Paul Johnson wrote: On Friday 25 August 2006 00:07, Mailbox wrote: I think at this point were all hoping for the silence of the Lamb I ate his liver with some fava beans. :o) You know, I never did ask you: did you eat his liver before, or after it was run through the Soylent plant? And did you have Soylent cola with it? Soylent debian-user is made out of PEOPLE -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpE0PfAOZSW0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Ron Johnson wrote: Technically, yes. That's how the Constitution designed it. Practically, though, no. Citizens, dead people, and illegal immigrants vote for Electors who are pledged to vote for a specific candidate. So if the Electors suddenly decide to vote for candidate A while being pledged to vote for candidate B (maybe because their bank balance suddenly got increased by ,say, 10 mil dollars), then what happens ? does Candidate B become the president ? Has the people got no say in this ? -- Random Quotes From Megas XLR Coop: You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff. Jamie: When in doubt, blow up a planet. Kiva: It's an 80 foot robot, if we can't see it, absolutely it's not here. Glorft Technician: Unnecessary use of force in capturing the Earthers has been approved. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mihira Fernando wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Technically, yes. That's how the Constitution designed it. Practically, though, no. Citizens, dead people, and illegal immigrants vote for Electors who are pledged to vote for a specific candidate. So if the Electors suddenly decide to vote for candidate A while being pledged to vote for candidate B (maybe because their bank balance suddenly got increased by ,say, 10 mil dollars), then what happens ? does Candidate B become the president ? Has the people got no say in this ? I just don't know. People in the Parties must have thought about it, though. There's always the Supreme Court... In practice, I really doubt that this could happen, because the people who are nominated to become Electors are party faithful, and for a Republican activist to suddenly switch his/her vote to Hillary Clinton, or a Demo activist to vote for W would be unlikely at best, and immediately suspect. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7XCyS9HxQb37XmcRApZIAJ0b6BWxongL64jSPCvFRlj3tsSPYgCbBRU2 aYLOcneOCduDDY+ZdjLsPFM= =fDfx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Cybe R. Wizard wrote: Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: There's also the case of the Libranet help list that had a number of quite knowledgeable people on it, but when Libranet started censoring them (I won't go into the entire story, I'll just say they weren't paying people to provide tech support, but many volunteers were helping for free and suddenly felt like they were being censored), the people who were providing most of the help on the list disappeared. Yes, then they formed an Libranet-OT list and started doing tech support! But only for those who decided to join L-OT. The whole incident was very sad. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7XEMS9HxQb37XmcRAnTHAKCPO1lodt8rSjvn/9SZFmmh0/J/iQCgzV23 F41eHhCAbw9bCK7eAYkjYQ8= =BbOo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
* Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006 Aug 23 22:55 -0500]: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 19:35, Mihira Fernando wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: ¹ For those not of US origin, the US has had an electoral college to decide it's soverign since it's inception, the popular vote for president is legally nonbinding in nearly all states: the electoral college can and does vote for whoever it wants. Out of a quarter billion people, only 538 appointed, not elected, people out of the entire country are allowed to have a binding vote for US president. So if you don't like the current president, you only have 538 people to blame, not the rest of us who had no non-violent method to have any say, pro or con, in the matter. Good god! so are the Presidential elections that are held in the US a sham ?? does only 538 really decides who the president is ?? Yes, today they are. The electoral college as practiced in the US made far more sense back in 1776 when it was introduced. The intent of the EC is to make sure someone voting for president for a region 1) can count the local vote (optional) and 2) can read. Given the English literacy rate at 1776 in the US was well under 10%, and the English literacy rate today is 90+%, it's purpose is outdated by at least a century. With illegal immigration and with attempts to allow illegal immigrants to vote, this trend may well be reversing. For all the bellyaching that goes on about the EC, it will never be eliminated because it effectively prevents a third party candidate from being elected president. The bellyaching that comes from the losing party is quite amusing as it is really just pandering to their base. As an aside, if anyone thinks our current day campaigns and elections are nasty, one need look no further than the 19th century when they really got after each other! Back then when people said something stupid, people laughed, now you are required to resign, etc. Case in point, Greg Gumble has apparently been tapped to do play-by-play for NFL Network games starting on Thanksgiving (US) evening. Well, he was speaking somewhere recently and made some stupid comment. Last I heard the NFL Network is reconsidering his contract. Have we gotten so sensitive that stupid remarks can't just be laughed off anymore? People have to learn to get over themselves. - Nate -- Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB | Successfully Microsoft Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @ | free since January 1998. http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/ | Debian, the choice of My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation! http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/ | http://www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 23:13, Mihira Fernando wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Technically, yes. That's how the Constitution designed it. Practically, though, no. Citizens, dead people, and illegal immigrants vote for Electors who are pledged to vote for a specific candidate. So if the Electors suddenly decide to vote for candidate A while being pledged to vote for candidate B (maybe because their bank balance suddenly got increased by ,say, 10 mil dollars), then what happens ? does Candidate B become the president ? Has the people got no say in this ? Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp2gGYsqIiXn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 22:26, Steve Lamb wrote: Uh, gas prices ring a bell? Of course you didn't reply to that, you blindly skipped over it. Just like you go amazingly silent any time someone nails you with cold hard facts. s/cold hard facts/rock-stupid morons/ and you would have a pretty good summation of that thread. I quit because I got tired of the refusal for others, like you, to see the bloody obvious. Just because you're sore you pay more for less doesn't mean my logic is flawed, just means you like sour grapes. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpNFcVtig5Gp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 23:13, Mihira Fernando wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Technically, yes. That's how the Constitution designed it. Practically, though, no. Citizens, dead people, and illegal immigrants vote for Electors who are pledged to vote for a specific candidate. So if the Electors suddenly decide to vote for candidate A while being pledged to vote for candidate B (maybe because their bank balance suddenly got increased by ,say, 10 mil dollars), then what happens ? does Candidate B become the president ? Has the people got no say in this ? Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7b7WS9HxQb37XmcRArdNAJ4he0Ud2KDlsFRsShfS1KOlBCdd3gCcCxv+ 2i+uOhtkuhPjQ4Ek7ywFnJ8= =xdNT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 04:24, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 22:26, Steve Lamb wrote: Uh, gas prices ring a bell? Of course you didn't reply to that, you blindly skipped over it. Just like you go amazingly silent any time someone nails you with cold hard facts. s/cold hard facts/rock-stupid morons/ and you would have a pretty good summation of that thread. I quit because I got tired of the refusal for others, like you, to see the bloody obvious. Just because you're sore you pay more for less doesn't mean my logic is flawed, just means you like sour grapes. It's so much fun watching this pot and kettle and the names they call each other... Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
* Damon L. Chesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006 Aug 23 23:00 -0500]: Steve Lamb wrote: Steve Lamb wrote: Nevermind that he was impeached for lying under oath in an investigation Er, sorry, Faced Impeachment is what I meant. point of fact, like him or not he WAS impeached, just not found guilty. Precisely. Indeed the trial took place in the Senate conducted by the House Managers. It was a historic event as an impeachement trial of a sitting president had never been done before. - Nate -- Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB | Successfully Microsoft Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @ | free since January 1998. http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/ | Debian, the choice of My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation! http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/ | http://www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
* Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006 Aug 23 22:55 -0500]: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 19:58, Steve Lamb wrote: ¹ For those not of US origin, Ignore Paul as he slants his posts to cast the most negative light on any non-socialist administration. Given this is a Capitalist society you can imagine how flawed his information is. For a prime example see my post about gas prices vs. his claims that Oregon's prices are far cheaper than the states surrounding his. That's not true. The UN has a similarly negative view of our electoral college. I'll take that as an endorsement that we've long been on the right track. A great number of the UN member states have an equally negative view of such concepts as our Bill of Rights, government of the people, by the people, for the people, and that all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. I'm not willing to capitialate to them either. - Nate -- Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB | Successfully Microsoft Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @ | free since January 1998. http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/ | Debian, the choice of My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation! http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/ | http://www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: ¹ For those not of US origin, the US has had an electoral college to decide it's soverign since it's inception, the popular vote for president is legally nonbinding in nearly all states: the electoral college can and does vote for whoever it wants. Out of a quarter billion people, only 538 appointed, not elected, people out of the entire country are allowed to have a binding vote for US president. So if you don't like the current president, you only have 538 people to blame, not the rest of us who had no non-violent method to have any say, pro or con, in the matter. Good god! so are the Presidential elections that are held in the US a sham ?? does only 538 really decides who the president is ?? Ace. No. Paul has no idea what the hell he's talking about. Most electoral college members are bound by state law to vote for the presidential candidate they were elected to vote for. Even the ones not so bound vote as they're supposed to. There has been only a handful of exceptions to this rule ever, and none has ever changed the result of an election. Chris Mattern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 03:22, Matt Johnson wrote: - Original Message From: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2006 1:32:52 AM Subject: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!) Steve Lamb wrote: Furthermore (not to you Hal) I find it mildly Ironic that anyone from Brazil would worry about what other people are doing on a mailing list. When Brazil decides to crack down on its own prolific black-hacker community and widely open spam relays is the day anyone from Brazil can say anything disparaging to people who are at least mildly on topic in a mailing list. Hear, hear! Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. Brazil, China and the EU are the three worst regions that spam my server. Target marketing. You're in the States, and therefore classified as American market source. I'm in Australia, and it's all China and Korea here. Very little from South America or EU. ISP spammers are usually hired by corporates who specify the target market. Third world ISPs take the contracts to bring in the dough that the local market can't supply, and then employ clients, whom they then protect. Corporates employ off-shore spammers because they have the cheap labour resources ( a lot of the ISPs clients get free online in return for spamming), act as an identity buffer for public image factors, and being off-shore, the ISP, and therefore corporate identity, enjoys a level of insulation from prosecution. Last fiscal year, the American pharmaceutical sector invested $4 billion in direct advertising. Not all of that went to spammers, but if it did, it would have translated into an effective $20 billion in advertising value. Regards, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Steve Lamb wrote: Katipo wrote: Nothing, even remotely close to the volumes generated by Americans and their contracted bodies in Korea and China. They hire out entire ISPs for the purpose. Which would be China and Korea's problems respectively and does not excuse Brazil's ills. No, they're making the money. ...and to counterbalance what Brazil do put out, the have one of the most active programmes as regards promotion of open concepts on the planet, endorsed and actively implemented by government. Yes, because Government has nothing better to do than fritter it's citizens money on something that probably nets them no gain. Sorry, that's a huge negative in my book. That would seem to be somewhat inconsistent, coming from somebody that supposedly endorses open concepts? Do try to keep up now, Steven. I don't see an N on the end of my name, El Kaputicano. Just because I speak up, with regard to preserving an open viewpoint, doesn't make me South American. Regards, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: That's not true. The UN has a similarly negative view of our electoral college. So? Any non-elected group which caters to terrorism, has been proven corrupt time and again and is against free speech is a group I should care about how exactly? O.K., tell us how you feel about the current American administration, now that you have so accurately described them. with leftover Joe McCarthy sympathizers that can't distinguish political models from economic ones). Really, there is no difference when you get down to it. Well, there is, but until the science of economics incorporates social, cultural and ecological values into economical studies, the above applies. Regards, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Katipo wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 03:22, Matt Johnson wrote: - Original Message From: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2006 1:32:52 AM Subject: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!) Steve Lamb wrote: [snip] Corporates employ off-shore spammers because they have the cheap labour resources ( a lot of the ISPs clients get free online in return for spamming), act as an identity buffer for public image factors, and being off-shore, the ISP, and therefore corporate identity, enjoys a level of insulation from prosecution. Since when do big companies send reams of spam? The only spam I see is for fake pills, phishing, etc. Last fiscal year, the American pharmaceutical sector invested $4 billion in direct advertising. Not all of that went to spammers, but if it did, it would have translated into an effective $20 billion in advertising value. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7iEkS9HxQb37XmcRAqHqAJ0Z7ycdoBf5I2hbtZPa5vvDqmU/RwCcD7D0 QZ6wMrwosdgFp+lz6BI4ihY= =Sv5l -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Katipo wrote: Steve Lamb wrote: Yes, because Government has nothing better to do than fritter it's citizens money on something that probably nets them no gain. Sorry, that's a huge negative in my book. That would seem to be somewhat inconsistent, coming from somebody that supposedly endorses open concepts? No, it isn't. I do not believe in open concepts when they are provided by the coercive force of government. Debian and the many software projects it encompasses is pretty much a VOLUNTEER effort that is FREELY given away. One rarely volunteer's for taxation and freely gives said money away. I don't see an N on the end of my name, El Kaputicano. Just because I speak up, with regard to preserving an open viewpoint, doesn't make me South American. Never said you were. I can clearly see the .au at the end of your address. However your name, Kapito, reminded me of Kaput and I tacked on icano and el for flavor to drive my point home. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. And where, exactly, is the proof? I mean the real proof, not Paul's made up fantasy land, conspiracy theory proof. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: s/cold hard facts/rock-stupid morons/ and you would have a pretty good summation of that thread. I quit because I got tired of the refusal for others, like you, to see the bloody obvious. Just because you're sore you pay more for less doesn't mean my logic is flawed, just means you like sour grapes. Excuse me? Me finding an on-line reference of average prices in the 50 states, broken down by Zip code which showed Oregon which as high and sometimes higher than its immediate neighbors and far higher than distant states is hardly sour grapes over anything. It's proof that I'm not paying more for less, it is proof your logic is flawed. Here it is again since you refuse to see. - BTW, Paul, the data doesn't support your position. I decided to do a little research to see if I could account for the difference in price. However when I looked for the difference in prices I didn't find it. http://www.oregongasprices.com/Price_By_County.aspx?state=ORc=usa Oregon isn't significantly lower than the surrounding areas. In fact a quick sample shows that in some cases the average price of gas is lower in counties immediately bordering Oregon than those counties inside Oregon bordering other states (listing what the site lists when it pops up the data). For example the area immediately north of Portland, Or: Columbia, Or: $3.02 Cowlitz, Wa: $2.98 Clark, Wa: $3.02 Looking further in and comparing some ZIPs in Portland, Or vs. Seattle, Wa: 97222 (Portland, Or): $2.93 98118 (Seattle, Wa): $3.04 98059 (Seattle, Wa a little further from city's center): $2.91 Cheapest county I could find, Cherokee, SC... $2.54. Some more: Los Angeles, Ca: $3.15 Las Vegas, Nv: $2.96 (cheaper than most of Or and barely higher than the cheaper areas in Or) Phoenix, Az: $2.79 Brown, Wi (Green Bay, Wi) $3.01 Will, Il (Chicago): $3.13 St. Claire, Il (St. Louis, Il) $2.86 Duval, Fl (Jacksonville, Fl) $2.87 If, as you claim, the minimal service mandate in Oregon results in lower gas prices then why is it that this quick check of prices does not yield the dramatic (about $.15/gallon) price difference that you cite in the areas just outside of Oregon? Furthermore why is it there are many cases where the gas prices are $.08-$.30/gallon lower than Oregon's average price? In fact, I'll settle for a simple question. Why is it where I live, with self-serve, is a meager $.03/gallon higher than your minimal-serve gasoline instead of the $0.15 or more that you're suggesting? - So tell me how that's sour grapes, Paul. Or are you just going to go silent again? I'm betting it's the latter since it's hard to argue against the cold hard facts. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 07:59, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 23:13, Mihira Fernando wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Technically, yes. That's how the Constitution designed it. Practically, though, no. Citizens, dead people, and illegal immigrants vote for Electors who are pledged to vote for a specific candidate. So if the Electors suddenly decide to vote for candidate A while being pledged to vote for candidate B (maybe because their bank balance suddenly got increased by ,say, 10 mil dollars), then what happens ? does Candidate B become the president ? Has the people got no say in this ? Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpMDjBs3sOp3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 17:19, Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. And where, exactly, is the proof? I mean the real proof, not Paul's made up fantasy land, conspiracy theory proof. The impression of impropriety in politics is as bad as impropriety itself. I'm not going to go into detail, since if you weren't following the news for the last six years, going over it again won't help you. But in summary, with a significant plurality of the population in this country, as well as the UN, saying there were things wrong with both the elections casts one massive shadow of doubt on the results of both. If this were any other country that had that problem, the US would be protesting the election as not fair and safe right along with the UN. In the future, particularly if you vote, I strongly suggest paying more attention to current events, or you're just part of the problem. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpBlM976afSN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 05:06, Nate Bargmann wrote: With illegal immigration and with attempts to allow illegal immigrants to vote, this trend may well be reversing. It may be, but as far as I am concerned they're not people. They become people again around the time they go back to where they are a legal resident or citizen and live within the system again. But they walked hundreds of miles through the desert to take jobs that nobody else would! So they had a nice hike. Deport them; the homeless guy by the freeway onramp with the WILL WORK FOR FOOD sign that is here legally needs their job more that they do. That segment doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. If you want to move to another country, do it legally or don't expect basic human rights as defined by the local jurisdiction. God knows it's hard enough to move between countries without people screwing everyone over by doing it illegally. For all the bellyaching that goes on about the EC, it will never be eliminated because it effectively prevents a third party candidate from being elected president. The bellyaching that comes from the losing party is quite amusing as it is really just pandering to their base. That paragraph contradicts itself because the second sentence assumes third parties don't exist, whereas in the EC, it doesn't matter how many votes third parties get, the EC won't vote for them. They haven't voted for a third party since last time we had a Whig president. Yeah, remember the Whig party? Not me, unless you count US History... As an aside, if anyone thinks our current day campaigns and elections are nasty, one need look no further than the 19th century when they really got after each other! Back then when people said something stupid, people laughed, now you are required to resign, etc. Case in point, Greg Gumble has apparently been tapped to do play-by-play for NFL Network games starting on Thanksgiving (US) evening. Well, he was speaking somewhere recently and made some stupid comment. Last I heard the NFL Network is reconsidering his contract. Have we gotten so sensitive that stupid remarks can't just be laughed off anymore? Conservatives complain about political correctness, then someone says something politically incorrect, and before you know it, that person's nailed to a cross. So much for freedom of speech, eh? -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpHRbaiwPQbM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 10:23, Nate Bargmann wrote: * Damon L. Chesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006 Aug 23 23:00 -0500]: Steve Lamb wrote: Steve Lamb wrote: Nevermind that he was impeached for lying under oath in an investigation Er, sorry, Faced Impeachment is what I meant. point of fact, like him or not he WAS impeached, just not found guilty. Precisely. Indeed the trial took place in the Senate conducted by the House Managers. It was a historic event as an impeachement trial of a sitting president had never been done before. Which caused a second first: No president had ever remained in office after being impeached before. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp0hRd2gxoIW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 07:59, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 23:13, Mihira Fernando wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Technically, yes. That's how the Constitution designed it. Practically, though, no. Citizens, dead people, and illegal immigrants vote for Electors who are pledged to vote for a specific candidate. So if the Electors suddenly decide to vote for candidate A while being pledged to vote for candidate B (maybe because their bank balance suddenly got increased by ,say, 10 mil dollars), then what happens ? does Candidate B become the president ? Has the people got no say in this ? Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 and by probable act of sabotage on Diebold's part in Ohio in 2004. Candidate B becomes president, people have no say. Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. Vote-buying != Voter-stupidity - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7mazS9HxQb37XmcRAi8EAJ0QbHdewlJMq8NN8lonLYYHznlGQwCeJ7ZF oACXAeFjr5wrlZjCFeyGrTI= =fPxq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 05:06, Nate Bargmann wrote: With illegal immigration and with attempts to allow illegal immigrants to vote, this trend may well be reversing. It may be, but as far as I am concerned they're not people. They become people again around the time they go back to where they are a legal resident or citizen and live within the system again. But they walked hundreds of miles through the desert to take jobs that nobody else would! So they had a nice hike. Deport them; the homeless guy by the freeway onramp with the WILL WORK FOR FOOD sign that is here legally needs their job more that they do. Gak! We agree!! - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7mcIS9HxQb37XmcRAlzwAKDCGVPG04JoZ2TxUmARRUXZtEaY2gCfY/Hp JOG/hcK45VrulWtrxFi1LEg= =kEIz -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 10:36, Nate Bargmann wrote: A great number of the UN member states have an equally negative view of such concepts as our Bill of Rights, government of the people, by the people, for the people, and that all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. And what is the member status of those states again? Do they matter? Does anybody on the UN give them more than token attention? NO! Why? Because the UN realizes they're as nutty as they really are, too! However, the UN does allow everybody to have their say. It doesn't mean the UN is going to listen to them. That being said, since it's creation, the UN has sided with the US more often than not. And why shouldn't they? They're headquartered in New York City, for crying out loud, and founded largely with our historic ideals. You're going to have to convince me the UN has lost it's way, since it seems more like they're reminding us of who we are and what we expect from the rest of the world. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp5u1mEsqbPC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 14:29, Katipo wrote: You're in the States, and therefore classified as American market source. I'm in Australia, and it's all China and Korea here. Very little from South America or EU. I used to get a *lot* from Korea, almost all of it from Kornet. I have to wonder if they cleaned up their act or went under: I haven't heard peep one from Korea for months now. Corporates employ off-shore spammers because they have the cheap labour resources ( a lot of the ISPs clients get free online in return for spamming), act as an identity buffer for public image factors, and being off-shore, the ISP, and therefore corporate identity, enjoys a level of insulation from prosecution. I haven't seen any corporate marketing of any kind via email, except from ThinkGeek and Dotster, but I subscribed to their newsletters. At least in the States, corporate spam is such a massively bad PR move that about the only thing you're likely to get unsolicited via email with a corporate logo on it is a phishing attempt from the EU or central Africa. Last fiscal year, the American pharmaceutical sector invested $4 billion in direct advertising. Not all of that went to spammers, but if it did, it would have translated into an effective $20 billion in advertising value. I'm not sure any of it went to spammers, as the pharm companies themselves lose money because of spammers selling knockoffs. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp3i6r5x2G1G.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 13:04, Chris Mattern wrote: No. Paul has no idea what the hell he's talking about. Most electoral college members are bound by state law to vote for the presidential candidate they were elected to vote for. So less than half suddenly constitutes a majority? I'm sorry, did you say you worked for Ohio or Florida's Department of Elections? Even the ones not so bound vote as they're supposed to. There has been only a handful of exceptions to this rule ever, and none has ever changed the result of an election. Apparently only a handful equals 158 times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College#Faithless_electors -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp00pivxXRPN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 13:04, Chris Mattern wrote: No. Paul has no idea what the hell he's talking about. Most electoral college members are bound by state law to vote for the presidential candidate they were elected to vote for. So less than half suddenly constitutes a majority? I'm sorry, did you say you worked for Ohio or Florida's Department of Elections? Even the ones not so bound vote as they're supposed to. There has been only a handful of exceptions to this rule ever, and none has ever changed the result of an election. Apparently only a handful equals 158 times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Electoral_College#Faithless_electors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector if we leave out the cases in which a candidate died before the elector was able to cast a vote, there have been 87 failures in a universe of 21,610 pledged electors, giving a failure rate of 0.4% Yes, I'd say that a 0.4% failure rate is a handful. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7m3iS9HxQb37XmcRAnY7AJ4xbpqyk4Wmsij6vAHCDC/T7EpXIgCfXArc bmjzhMDRQYHqKc6UAm53THE= =PtiL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 19:55, Ron Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. Vote-buying != Voter-stupidity Don't be stupid. Nowhere did I say the Florida election went down primarily due to anything other than pilot error. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgptrG2VfAMU9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thursday 24 August 2006 19:57, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 05:06, Nate Bargmann wrote: With illegal immigration and with attempts to allow illegal immigrants to vote, this trend may well be reversing. It may be, but as far as I am concerned they're not people. They become people again around the time they go back to where they are a legal resident or citizen and live within the system again. But they walked hundreds of miles through the desert to take jobs that nobody else would! So they had a nice hike. Deport them; the homeless guy by the freeway onramp with the WILL WORK FOR FOOD sign that is here legally needs their job more that they do. Gak! We agree!! We usually do, though this summer you seem to have gone temporarily insane. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpKyJvSusXkA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 20:13 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:D Gak! We agree!! We usually do, though this summer you seem to have gone temporarily insane. Any chance the list is dealing with one schizophrenic? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 19:55, Ron Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. Vote-buying != Voter-stupidity Don't be stupid. Nowhere did I say the Florida election went down primarily due to anything other than pilot error. Something similar to this happened due to pilot error. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFE7nuqS9HxQb37XmcRAuLgAKCrjhA1FESngyh7jKT6DyvD9Aqb7ACXUioU fXsWbfNAFn38UVrTWnTJgw== =55Ux -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 charles norwood wrote: On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 20:13 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:D Gak! We agree!! We usually do, though this summer you seem to have gone temporarily insane. Any chance the list is dealing with one schizophrenic? No. He lives in Oregon, I live in God's Country*. * Note that that is *not* a political statement. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7nwES9HxQb37XmcRAjSeAKC1OGqNwQuYHOAyii/k8HGm64Y83QCg7s7B P2AdAVgJK58NeaHTUsWxg1U= =fyr0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Friday 25 August 2006 00:25, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 24 August 2006 19:55, Ron Johnson wrote: Something similar to this happened due to pilot error in Florida in 2000 Don't be stupid. The Florida problem was that little old ladies could not figure our how to use a paper ballot. Take your own advice: Don't be stupid. Realize that what you said is in perfect agreement with what I said. Vote-buying != Voter-stupidity Don't be stupid. Nowhere did I say the Florida election went down primarily due to anything other than pilot error. Something similar to this happened due to pilot error. I think you mean, This kind of thing has happened before and it has always been due to human error. I should know. Hal (9000) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: The impression of impropriety in politics is as bad as impropriety itself. I'm not going to go into detail, since if you weren't following the news for the last six years, going over it again won't help you. Oddly enough, Paul, I have followed the news. I have followed ALL the news, not just a self-selected subset. But in summary, with a significant plurality of the population in this Contrary to popular believe a significant plurality did speak and the results are in accord with that. country, as well as the UN, saying there were things wrong with both the The UN is insignificant. For if *you* were watching the news in the past 6 years you would know that the UN has done nothing to curb the tide of terrorism, it has been implicated in a massive money laundering scandal that goes up to Kofi's son. If it were a Republican President he would have been roasted alive by the media. Kofi gets a pass. Even now there are implications that Hezballah was given UN issue night vision goggles. There are reports that the UN peacekeepers knew Hezballah was arming and did nothing. UN peacekeepers are under orders *not* to fire. The UN's own charter prohibits any speech counter to the UN mission. Does this sound like an organization who's opinion is worth spit? If this were any other country that had that problem, the US would be protesting the election as not fair and safe right along with the UN. All of those were looked at and in pretty much every case refuted. However, since those don't go in line with your world view you ignore them. For example, the charge that blacks in Florida were disproportionately rejected from voting stems from the fact that it was convicted felons, people whom have lost their right to vote, were turned away. Upon checking it was found out that there were more *white* felons turned away than black. In the future, particularly if you vote, I strongly suggest paying more attention to current events, or you're just part of the problem. I do keep up with current events. I suggest that you start looking a little further than just your little blindered world view, Paul. You've been proven wrong time and again. Wisen up. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: That paragraph contradicts itself because the second sentence assumes third parties don't exist, whereas in the EC, it doesn't matter how many votes third parties get, the EC won't vote for them. They haven't voted for a third party since last time we had a Whig president. Yeah, remember the Whig party? Not me, unless you count US History... Jeez, Paul, are you ignorant or what? Didn't I just point out just a day or two ago that in the '70s one member of the EC voted for the Libertarian Party? In fact it is because of that vote the Libertarian Party holds the distinction of having not only run and gotten a EC vote for the first female Vice-President candidate but the first person of the Jewish faith to get such a vote. Don't believe me? http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/Candidates_Vice1880.htm 1972 Theodora (Tonie) Nathan, United States of America For the Libertarian in 1972. In January she became the first woman in US History to receive an electoral vote in the Electoral College, and also making her the first Jewish person to receive an electoral vote and to gain a nomination to run as Vice-President. I'm betting in your world view Joseph Lieberman was the first. Still gonna say I don't keep up with current world events, Paul? -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: And what is the member status of those states again? Do they matter? Does anybody on the UN give them more than token attention? NO! Why? Because the UN realizes they're as nutty as they really are, too! However, the UN does allow everybody to have their say. It doesn't mean the UN is going to listen to them. Wrong again, Paul. You will note that 1-2 years ago the UN resolution denouncing terrorism was softened to include a clause which allowed terrorist activities in the event of a occupied state. That clause was fought for and eventually put in place to appease the very same member states you claim the UN believe is nutty and doesn't listen to. That being said, since it's creation, the UN has sided with the US more often than not. And why shouldn't they? It has? Not lately. It's pretty much run counter to the US for the past, oh... 1-2 decades. I'd talk about more but I wasn't all that interested in world politics when I was a kid. You're going to have to convince me the UN has lost it's way, since it seems more like they're reminding us of who we are and what we expect from the rest of the world. http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html Article 19. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Article 29. (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. Article 19, people have the freedom of speech. Article 29.3, but people cannot use any freedom, even the freedom of speech, contrary to the purposes and principles of the UN. They're remind us of who we are? ... Really? http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1 Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Strictly speaking if the US had the same exception clause to it's freedom of speech as the UN has then you would be in violation of it and subject to whatever reprimands were deemed appropriate. The very fact that you can speak out against the US as you do, as often as you do and the fact that your right to do so is DEFENDED by the very same nation you abhor proves that the UN does not nor ever has reminded us of what we are and has, indeed, run counter to what is considered one of the founding principles of this nation. Somehow I doubt you'll read this or, in the off chance you do, find it convincing. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:39, Steve Lamb wrote: Hal Vaughan wrote: I tried Mepis for a while. It was fine for the 1st six months or so, but once the testing and unstable got out of sync, I had more and more problems adding packages when I had to. I just got it because it had an easy install and installed decent video drivers. For older machines Debian's fine but for my game machine I just don't want the hassle of configuring every little thing by hand. It's the one machine I want to just run as I use it to relax. :) (Or has Mepis gone to the Ubuntu repository now, like Libranet and some other distros did?) Not sure. Ubuntu's repositories are one of the reasons I don't like it. If Mepis went that way I'd be a sad panda. HEY Since this thread has drifted back to Linux distros and hence is almost On Topic for this list, how about labelling it clearly ON TOPIC so we can tell it apart from all the other hundreds of recent posts?? ;-) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
- Original Message From: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2006 1:32:52 AM Subject: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!) Steve Lamb wrote: Furthermore (not to you Hal) I find it mildly Ironic that anyone from Brazil would worry about what other people are doing on a mailing list. When Brazil decides to crack down on its own prolific black-hacker community and widely open spam relays is the day anyone from Brazil can say anything disparaging to people who are at least mildly on topic in a mailing list. Hear, hear! Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. -- Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matt Johnson wrote: - Original Message From: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2006 1:32:52 AM Subject: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!) Steve Lamb wrote: Furthermore (not to you Hal) I find it mildly Ironic that anyone from Brazil would worry about what other people are doing on a mailing list. When Brazil decides to crack down on its own prolific black-hacker community and widely open spam relays is the day anyone from Brazil can say anything disparaging to people who are at least mildly on topic in a mailing list. Hear, hear! Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. Everyone except Oregonians. If you can't pump your hose without dribbling any... - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7EzVS9HxQb37XmcRAoD/AJ91X0qRbgOOlK4b29RoZhl+OwUsYQCghGBa iK0FsQwCu3xVTqLz2Bj9gEI= =NbiG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Matt Johnson wrote: Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. Just as I wrote. It is ironic that someone from Brazil, which is notorious for it's black-hacker community and open spam relays which are never, EVER shut down to complain about people drifting hither and yon on a mailing list on which they have participated in good standing for the better part of a decade. A lot of the web site defacements in the past years have been from Brazil for dubious political reasons. In fact the one and only time I have ever seen a Linux virus originated from Brazil. Remember the problem with the C-R response spamming the list users, petmarket or something like that? A Brazillian ISP that would not even respond to complaints about the crap they were spewing. If Brazillians want to discuss the merits of Debian, fine. But lashing out at people for being Off-Topic is just laughable given the cesspool their national network has become. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Katipo wrote: Nothing, even remotely close to the volumes generated by Americans and their contracted bodies in Korea and China. They hire out entire ISPs for the purpose. Which would be China and Korea's problems respectively and does not excuse Brazil's ills. ...and to counterbalance what Brazil do put out, the have one of the most active programmes as regards promotion of open concepts on the planet, endorsed and actively implemented by government. Yes, because Government has nothing better to do than fritter it's citizens money on something that probably nets them no gain. Sorry, that's a huge negative in my book. Do try to keep up now, Steven. I don't see an N on the end of my name, El Kaputicano. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
- Original Message From: Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2006 2:18:56 PM Subject: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!) Matt Johnson wrote: Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. If Brazillians want to discuss the merits of Debian, fine. But lashing out at people for being Off-Topic is just laughable given the cesspool their national network has become. I think I must be reading more into this than there is. Surely, we acknowledge that laughing off someone's comments on a discussion because of the state if their national network (which, incidently, I have no knowledge of) is a nonsense. That would indeed be lazy thinking. -- Matt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ON TOPIC: comparative distros (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!))
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 07:49:18AM +1200, cr wrote: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:39, Steve Lamb wrote: Hal Vaughan wrote: I tried Mepis for a while. It was fine for the 1st six months or so, but once the testing and unstable got out of sync, I had more and more problems adding packages when I had to. I just got it because it had an easy install and installed decent video drivers. For older machines Debian's fine but for my game machine I just don't want the hassle of configuring every little thing by hand. It's the one machine I want to just run as I use it to relax. :) (Or has Mepis gone to the Ubuntu repository now, like Libranet and some other distros did?) Not sure. Ubuntu's repositories are one of the reasons I don't like it. If Mepis went that way I'd be a sad panda. HEY Since this thread has drifted back to Linux distros and hence is almost On Topic for this list, how about labelling it clearly ON TOPIC so we can tell it apart from all the other hundreds of recent posts?? ;-) cr I have debian on most of my machines here. I'm currently running Ubuntu on my fastest machine because X keeps crashing in Debian (yes, I've reported the bug). Except for that one detail, Debian works just fine. ON Ubuntu, though, I just get boxes instead of characters in xemacs. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Matt Johnson wrote: Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. Just as I wrote. It is ironic that someone from Brazil, which is notorious for it's black-hacker community and open spam relays which are never, EVER shut down to complain about people drifting hither and yon on a mailing list on which they have participated in good standing for the better part of a decade. A lot of the web site defacements in the past years have been from Brazil for dubious political reasons. In fact the one and only time I have ever seen a Linux virus originated from Brazil. Remember the problem with the C-R response spamming the list users, petmarket or something like that? A Brazillian ISP that would not even respond to complaints about the crap they were spewing. If Brazillians want to discuss the merits of Debian, fine. But lashing out at people for being Off-Topic is just laughable given the cesspool their national network has become. I made my one post on the gas thread earlier, and have stayed out of it since then, but now... MAYBE Brazil is a source of large amounts of open relays and C-R garbage. MAYBE they are the source of the only linux virus that YOU are aware of. MAYBE. But whether they have more of this than other countries, I don't know. I don't presume to make statements like that. But I DO know that blaiming EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brazilian for the mess that YOU feel exits in their country's networks is just a bunch of BUNK! Are YOU responsible for everything that U.S. polititians in Washington (D.C., not state) say? Are YOU responsible for the SPAM that goes out over U.S. networks? If so, then we now know who to blame. If not, then don't make comments like that about other countries and their citizens! -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Topics (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!))
Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip nice Start Trek story] LOL, that just made my day :))) Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 03:22, Matt Johnson wrote: - Original Message From: Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2006 1:32:52 AM Subject: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!) Steve Lamb wrote: Furthermore (not to you Hal) I find it mildly Ironic that anyone from Brazil would worry about what other people are doing on a mailing list. When Brazil decides to crack down on its own prolific black-hacker community and widely open spam relays is the day anyone from Brazil can say anything disparaging to people who are at least mildly on topic in a mailing list. Hear, hear! Excuse me? You are joking, right? Relevant opinion from only certain nationalities on this list? You've lost me here, lads. Perhaps you could exlain this clearly. Brazil, China and the EU are the three worst regions that spam my server. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpW2saPUUct3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Off Topic Topics (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!))
On Wed, 2006-08-23 at 21:51 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip nice Start Trek story] LOL, that just made my day :))) Andrei Yeah, that was impressive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Hello, First of all, I would like to say that I am a very happy user of Debian, and always received a lot of kind help from the members of this list. If I can manage myself in running Debian the way I do, is due to the support I obtain continuosly from this list. I apologize very much if I was rude complaining about recent OT trafic, which started with the Osama Bin Laden Take Over List! stuff, and continues with the Pumping Gas in Oregon emails. As I said, it was not my intention to be rude with these OT's debianners. I am very sorry for that. I have nothing to do with the black-hacker Brazilian community and I would like not to be blamed for their acts. Nevertheless, I think that I have the right to express my opinion, and be taken seriously, in spite of my neighbor behavior. Finally, weren't the Brazilians who wrote the complain about OT traffic, just one, me. And, again, I apologize very much if I was not polite doing that in the manner I did. With the best regards from Rio Marcelo On Wed, 2006-08-23 at 06:18 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Just as I wrote. It is ironic that someone from Brazil, which is notorious for it's black-hacker community and open spam relays which are never, EVER shut down to complain about people drifting hither and yon on a mailing list on which they have participated in good standing for the better part of a decade. A lot of the web site defacements in the past years have been from Brazil for dubious political reasons. In fact the one and only time I have ever seen a Linux virus originated from Brazil. Remember the problem with the C-R response spamming the list users, petmarket or something like that? A Brazillian ISP that would not even respond to complaints about the crap they were spewing. If Brazillians want to discuss the merits of Debian, fine. But lashing out at people for being Off-Topic is just laughable given the cesspool their national network has become. -- Marcelo Chiapparini [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon
Marcelo Chiapparini [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, Hi Marcelo.. First of all, I would like to say that I am a very happy user of Debian, and always received a lot of kind help from the members of this list. If I can manage myself in running Debian the way I do, is due to the support I obtain continuosly from this list. Ditto I apologize very much if I was rude complaining about recent OT trafic, which started with the Osama Bin Laden Take Over List! stuff, and continues with the Pumping Gas in Oregon emails. As I said, it was not my intention to be rude with these OT's debianners. I am very sorry for that. You have absolutely *nothing* to apologize for, the thread is off topic, when people complain, they are told they don't have to read it, or worse, to configure their email clients to filter the thread, which puts the burden of responsibility on the people not participating in the thread. I have nothing to do with the black-hacker Brazilian community and I would like not to be blamed for their acts. Nevertheless, I think that I have the right to express my opinion, and be taken seriously, in spite of my neighbor behavior. I would hope that nobody here is stupid enough to hold you responsible for internet activity originating from your country! If Brazillians want to discuss the merits of Debian, fine. But lashing out at people for being Off-Topic is just laughable given the cesspool their national network has become. ok, maybe someone is... This list is huge, very high traffic, with many people trying to help solve some often times tricky and complex problems, OT threads, especially giant, boring and opinionated (IMHO) ones such as the Oregon Gas thread only make it tougher for users to give and get help. Finally, weren't the Brazilians who wrote the complain about OT traffic, just one, me. And, again, I apologize very much if I was not polite doing that in the manner I did. Again, Marcelo, please do not feel the need to apologize, you are only echoing the same thing many of us feel: we want to to keep this list focused one Debian, simple as that. -- -Angelina Carlton- orchid on irc.freenode.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] web:bzgirl.bakadigital.com -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Marc Shapiro wrote: But I DO know that blaiming EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brazilian for the mess that YOU feel exits in their country's networks is just a bunch of BUNK! Are YOU responsible for everything that U.S. polititians in Washington (D.C., not state) say? Are YOU responsible for the SPAM that goes out over U.S. networks? If so, then we now know who to blame. If not, then don't make comments like that about other countries and their citizens! Apparently I am considering the widely expressed world opinion that Americans should be shameful of their own nation on a host of reasons. Funny how when the same logic is applied to other nations it gets the above reaction. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon
Angelina Carlton wrote: Again, Marcelo, please do not feel the need to apologize, you are only echoing the same thing many of us feel: we want to to keep this list focused one Debian, simple as that. Then here's a pop quiz. Why is it in the years that this list has existed there pretty much hasn't been a consistent pattern where a moderator of the list has commented on the off-topic threads? Sure, every once in a blue moon a moderator, with moderator hat off, will comment on it. Of course those instances are also matched by moderators, with moderator hat off, instructing people on how to filter or simply delete messages unread. But by and large the threads come, the threads go, the mods are hands off. Oddly enough in the past, ohhh, decade or so of people claiming any particular thread would be the demise of the list you know what has happened? The list has grown. People continue to get help. And the signal-to-noise ratio has never gotten out of whack. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Baxk on the off-topic (was Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon))
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: But I DO know that blaiming EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brazilian for the mess that YOU feel exits in their country's networks is just a bunch of BUNK! Are YOU responsible for everything that U.S. polititians in Washington (D.C., not state) say? Are YOU responsible for the SPAM that goes out over U.S. networks? If so, then we now know who to blame. If not, then don't make comments like that about other countries and their citizens! Apparently I am considering the widely expressed world opinion that Americans should be shameful of their own nation on a host of reasons. Funny how when the same logic is applied to other nations it gets the above reaction. Let's remember people, that the focus of this thread is laughing at those stupid Oregonians who can't pump their own gas. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7PRMS9HxQb37XmcRAr84AJ9+F5njetY9RyAPa7Hz/gNs1hJ85wCaAm3I q0lut8wIahAFFVBg8fPFPJs= =JNDh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 17:19, Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: But I DO know that blaiming EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brazilian for the mess that YOU feel exits in their country's networks is just a bunch of BUNK! Are YOU responsible for everything that U.S. polititians in Washington (D.C., not state) say? Are YOU responsible for the SPAM that goes out over U.S. networks? If so, then we now know who to blame. If not, then don't make comments like that about other countries and their citizens! Apparently I am considering the widely expressed world opinion that Americans should be shameful of their own nation on a host of reasons. Funny how when the same logic is applied to other nations it gets the above reaction. I'm of the world opinion, which is more or less why I want out. :o) -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpIo1TtjF84W.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Baxk on the off-topic (was Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon))
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 17:35, Ron Johnson wrote: Let's remember people, that the focus of this thread is laughing at those stupid Oregonians who can't pump their own gas. You can pump your own gas, that's fine, but remember, NJ and BC also have mini-serve, and in BC, mini-serve competes against self-serve in the same territory and is still cheaper than self-serve. You can pay more, but you just have to do it yourself... -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpEM7U3LyxhL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 17:19, Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: [snip] I'm of the world opinion, which is more or less why I want out. You can agree with Jacques Chirac, I'll have the correct opinion. :o) - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7PtiS9HxQb37XmcRAi4vAJ44z91U53O20rv6JMjTElbgU1r0IQCgkhbz +UyHHTOGLhrwHIixSgw0B6c= =38lg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 20:24, Steve Lamb wrote: Angelina Carlton wrote: Again, Marcelo, please do not feel the need to apologize, you are only echoing the same thing many of us feel: we want to to keep this list focused one Debian, simple as that. Then here's a pop quiz. Why is it in the years that this list has existed there pretty much hasn't been a consistent pattern where a moderator of the list has commented on the off-topic threads? Sure, every once in a blue moon a moderator, with moderator hat off, will comment on it. Of course those instances are also matched by moderators, with moderator hat off, instructing people on how to filter or simply delete messages unread. I never even knew there were moderators until one showed up a few months ago (or sometime within the past 6 months or so) and started censoring posts that were critical of moderators. Other than that one incident, I thought this was a case of that which governs the least governs the best. But by and large the threads come, the threads go, the mods are hands off. Oddly enough in the past, ohhh, decade or so of people claiming any particular thread would be the demise of the list you know what has happened? The list has grown. People continue to get help. And the signal-to-noise ratio has never gotten out of whack. One thing I've noticed in tech forums or lists is that there are always a lot of people that are so knowledgeable about tech stuff they think they know everything about everything and disprove it to the world when they try to be insightful of people. This list has a lot of very intelligent people on it and many of us have times when we work long stretches at the computer for days on end to meet a deadline or goal. From what I've seen, OT threads are generally a pressure release valve that are harmless overall and the only people that ever have a noteable problem with them are those that are so heavy on the tech side and light in understanding the people side that they don't realize it's not just the people, but the group as a whole, that often needs a release. There's also the case of the Libranet help list that had a number of quite knowledgeable people on it, but when Libranet started censoring them (I won't go into the entire story, I'll just say they weren't paying people to provide tech support, but many volunteers were helping for free and suddenly felt like they were being censored), the people who were providing most of the help on the list disappeared. I don't think the list ever recovered in terms of the level of help provided before Libranet was pronounced to be shutting down. Start censoring and you'll tick off many of the brightest people here and have to start looking elsewhere for help. The OT can also help for those still getting used to Linux or Debian to see that they're dealing with real people, not geeks in tights and capes who can fly and do super-geek things. Hal
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: But I DO know that blaiming EVERY INDIVIDUAL Brazilian for the mess that YOU feel exits in their country's networks is just a bunch of BUNK! Are YOU responsible for everything that U.S. polititians in Washington (D.C., not state) say? Are YOU responsible for the SPAM that goes out over U.S. networks? If so, then we now know who to blame. If not, then don't make comments like that about other countries and their citizens! Apparently I am considering the widely expressed world opinion that Americans should be shameful of their own nation on a host of reasons. Funny how when the same logic is applied to other nations it gets the above reaction. What?!? I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this post. I never said that you, or any of the rest of us from the U.S. should be shameful of our country. I also don't think that Brazilians need to be shameful of THEIR country. I DO think that you should not be slamming INDIVIDUAL Brazilians for what you PERCEIVE of the Brazilian NETWORKS. -- Marc Shapiro No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. What?! Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here. Boom. Sooner or later ... boom! - Susan Ivanova: B5 - Grail -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 18:05, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 17:19, Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: [snip] I'm of the world opinion, which is more or less why I want out. You can agree with Jacques Chirac, I'll have the correct opinion. I don't agree with Jacques Chirac, I disagree with the Republican Party, and parliamentary selection of prime minister is favorable to the electoral college crap-shoot, which has resulted in hugely unfavorable results in my lifetime with Clinton's second term (lost the popular, won the EC) and both terms of George Bush (lost the popular, lost the EC, won the supreme court). While I like Clinton, it was obvious before Bush from the popular election, and the successful impeachment and attempted conviction of Clinton for doing a White House intern (never mind some of his best work was done while boning said intern) that the Electoral College method for electing a sovereign is inherently flawed and made me start questioning it's continued existence¹ versus instant run-off and other, actually democratic and representative, forms of elections for President. That isn't to say ECs are entirely useless, they can be used in a way that is at least a somewhat republican (as in democracy by committee like a republic, not as in supporting empirical totalitarianism as is the current American definition) ideal. Now France has the right idea of an electoral college: It's only used to elect the less influential senate, not the one person with sole veto and executive privilege. Mistakes by the EC are greatly blunted because the power of legislature comes from greater numbers, not a sole individual. EC doesn't really work to choose anything smaller than a large committee, and fails entirely when selecting a single person. Jacques Chirac isn't a saint, but at least his rise to power was at least representative and not based on a technicality and activist judicial fiat. ¹ For those not of US origin, the US has had an electoral college to decide it's soverign since it's inception, the popular vote for president is legally nonbinding in nearly all states: the electoral college can and does vote for whoever it wants. Out of a quarter billion people, only 538 appointed, not elected, people out of the entire country are allowed to have a binding vote for US president. So if you don't like the current president, you only have 538 people to blame, not the rest of us who had no non-violent method to have any say, pro or con, in the matter. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpMjQfKnQHVu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 18:35, Marc Shapiro wrote: I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this post. I never said that you, or any of the rest of us from the U.S. should be shameful of our country. I also don't think that Brazilians need to be shameful of THEIR country. I DO think that you should not be slamming INDIVIDUAL Brazilians for what you PERCEIVE of the Brazilian NETWORKS. Well, can you blame the perspective at all? If your only contact, to date, with Brazil or Brazilians, is via spam, would you expect that person's perception of Brazil and it's people be positive? Spam is a PR and tourism issue that governments should be aware of as much as any other diplomatic factor. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp5CTC3UMAGy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 18:05, Ron Johnson wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 17:19, Steve Lamb wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: [snip] I'm of the world opinion, which is more or less why I want out. You can agree with Jacques Chirac, I'll have the correct opinion. I don't agree with Jacques Chirac, I disagree with the Republican Party, and parliamentary selection of prime minister is favorable to the electoral college crap-shoot, which has resulted in hugely unfavorable results in my lifetime with Clinton's second term (lost the popular, won the EC) and both terms of George Bush (lost the popular, lost the EC, won the supreme court). Clinton got a plurality in both of his elections. 1992 42.9% 1996 49.2% In fact, there were 3 straight elections where the winner received a plurality. Thank Perot and Nader for that. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7Q+9S9HxQb37XmcRAuspAJsFRuxAtK4CWkXT4LN6YO4DlEx1HACghiys H1HR/V1N0f8n3Lnrifl1+HY= =tPDh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: ¹ For those not of US origin, the US has had an electoral college to decide it's soverign since it's inception, the popular vote for president is legally nonbinding in nearly all states: the electoral college can and does vote for whoever it wants. Out of a quarter billion people, only 538 appointed, not elected, people out of the entire country are allowed to have a binding vote for US president. So if you don't like the current president, you only have 538 people to blame, not the rest of us who had no non-violent method to have any say, pro or con, in the matter. Good god! so are the Presidential elections that are held in the US a sham ?? does only 538 really decides who the president is ?? Ace. -- Random Quotes From Megas XLR Coop: You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff. Jamie: When in doubt, blow up a planet. Kiva: It's an 80 foot robot, if we can't see it, absolutely it's not here. Glorft Technician: Unnecessary use of force in capturing the Earthers has been approved. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 23 August 2006 18:35, Marc Shapiro wrote: I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this post. I never said that you, or any of the rest of us from the U.S. should be shameful of our country. I also don't think that Brazilians need to be shameful of THEIR country. I DO think that you should not be slamming INDIVIDUAL Brazilians for what you PERCEIVE of the Brazilian NETWORKS. Well, can you blame the perspective at all? If your only contact, to date, with Brazil or Brazilians, is via spam, would you expect that person's perception of Brazil and it's people be positive? Spam is a PR and tourism issue that governments should be aware of as much as any other diplomatic factor. Sure I can. Spammers are a tiny group of people, and the ISPs who allow spam are also run by a small number of people. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Is common sense really valid? For example, it is common sense to white-power racists that whites are superior to blacks, and that those with brown skins are mud people. However, that common sense is obviously wrong. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE7RBrS9HxQb37XmcRAtdFAJ0WCs0JaXLONI5OebXi9P938gn6+QCdFe0W 4q08EGD+mDVhkFxlH2h1LWg= =NfFA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 18:13, Hal Vaughan wrote: I never even knew there were moderators until one showed up a few months ago (or sometime within the past 6 months or so) and started censoring posts that were critical of moderators. Other than that one incident, I thought this was a case of that which governs the least governs the best. When did this happen? I've been critical of moderators before, and have yet to ever have a post dropped going to any list on murphy¹ that I'm subscribed to. ¹ murphy.debian.org is the FQDN for the list server. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpaVcow9ToLZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
On Wednesday 23 August 2006 19:35, Ron Johnson wrote: Spammers are a tiny group of people, and the ISPs who allow spam are also run by a small number of people. Likewise, many people don't hold harmless anybody in California for the power crisis, as all of their elected officials unanimously passed the electricity price deregulation for themselves, then screw their neighbors by not paying for said electric they said they would pay for at any price. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpBPi7Uc3yDa.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Pumping Gas in Oregon (WAS: Re: Osama Bin Laden Take Over List!)
Osama Bin Laden Take Over List! It looks like the young man who started all this was at least partly successful!! People who don't like off-topic threads need a thread-aware email reader, then the problem goes away
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Paul Johnson wrote: I don't agree with Jacques Chirac, I disagree with the Republican Party, So do I, don't see me wanting to slap everyone else down for it, do you? Certainly don't see me revising history to fit my own illusional worldview. college crap-shoot, which has resulted in hugely unfavorable results in my lifetime with Clinton's second term (lost the popular, won the EC) and both terms of George Bush (lost the popular, lost the EC, won the supreme court). Bush won the EC both times. I don't like it any more than you do. I certainly didn't vote for him. But when you take the blinders off you see the media is painting a partial picture to fit their goals. and the successful impeachment and attempted conviction of Clinton for doing a White House intern (never mind some of his best work was done while boning said intern) Nevermind that he was impeached for lying under oath in an investigation for which he was suspect of breaking some of the very same laws *HE SIGNED INTO LAW*. Somehow I doubt that you're saying the President is above the law, are you? ¹ For those not of US origin, Ignore Paul as he slants his posts to cast the most negative light on any non-socialist administration. Given this is a Capitalist society you can imagine how flawed his information is. For a prime example see my post about gas prices vs. his claims that Oregon's prices are far cheaper than the states surrounding his. the US has had an electoral college to decide it's soverign since it's inception, the popular vote for president is legally nonbinding in nearly all states: You mean to say that it is legally non-binding in an increasing few states. More and more states are, indeed, binding the EC votes to the popular vote. Some are going so far as to ensure that it isn't a winner-takes-all. Get 30% of the popular vote, get 30% of the EC votes, not 0%. Furthermore what you're failing to explain is that this is pretty much a formality any way since the EC pretty much followed the popular vote of that state. There have been extremely rare cases where that is not the case. The last one I know of is in the '70s when one delegate voted for the Libertarian ticket instead of the winner of the popular vote in that state. One delegate in one election is hardly... the electoral college can and does vote for whoever it wants. ...the situation you described. In fact if any EC did go against the popular vote you can be assured that there would be tons of measures on the next ballot, that would pass, binding the EC to the popular vote in one form or another. So if you don't like the current president, you only have 538 people to blame, not the rest of us who had no non-violent method to have any say, pro or con, in the matter. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Try again, Paul. Maybe if the Socialist party fielded someone other than an extremist there would be an election closer to your liking. But blaming the loss on anything other than the horrible candidates they field is absurd. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Hey, Steve! (WAS: Re: Pumping Gas in Oregon)
Steve Lamb wrote: Nevermind that he was impeached for lying under oath in an investigation Er, sorry, Faced Impeachment is what I meant. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who decides what they dream? PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | And dream I do... ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
