Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:13:33 +0800, "David Palmer." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'm not mad at anyone. > If there is a form of arrogance that displays a lack of experience, > it's analysis at a distance. > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that > want to do the job for the right reasons. ..does not work, just watch the Scandinavian parliaments. ..there was just one major figure, and he was shot in 1986 to make way for EU membership ..I would like the oposite: Make it profitable to "hire some top shot CEO type to run your multinational business, while you do 3 terms in Office to pay for your next big business. You don't have any? Good, then go buy a good running big business after your first term, or set up a new one.". ..face it, good leaders costs _big_ money. Bad ones, even more. So they do _not_ want the competition. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 07:30:00AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 04:49:33PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > > scripsit Tom: > > > > (dating from the 17th century; their descendents are today's Lib-Dems) > > or with a rather na?ve progressive view of history as the story of > > continual progress. The latter is the way the term tends to be used > > generically by historians. Either way, the term evokes a rather > > old-fashioned classical liberalism. > > > before you write the thesis, the english and american whigs deserve a > little more attention on your part. they were/are not at all the same. Take it up with the Encycolpedia. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:00:02 -0800 Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 08:19:25PM -0800, Tom wrote: > > The unfortunate thing about people like you is you go from this bizarre > > self-loathing to crass commercialism (usually around 27). > > You know, murphy really ought to be making sure the addresses used to > post to this list are valid. Yes. And the ones behind those addresses also. Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 04:49:33PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > scripsit Tom: > > (dating from the 17th century; their descendents are today's Lib-Dems) > or with a rather na?ve progressive view of history as the story of > continual progress. The latter is the way the term tends to be used > generically by historians. Either way, the term evokes a rather > old-fashioned classical liberalism. before you write the thesis, the english and american whigs deserve a little more attention on your part. they were/are not at all the same. ben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 10:42:33AM -0600, Hoyt Bailey wrote: > > I believe Mr sanders is a member of the socialist party. > > check out bernie.house.gov while he lends himself to socialist issues, bernie is an independent. ben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 09:00:02PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 08:19:25PM -0800, Tom wrote: > > The unfortunate thing about people like you is you go from this bizarre > > self-loathing to crass commercialism (usually around 27). > > You know, murphy really ought to be making sure the addresses used to > post to this list are valid. You're drunk now aren't you? Did you even try sending a message to this "from" line? Or is that just another thing you think you know? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 08:19:25PM -0800, Tom wrote: > The unfortunate thing about people like you is you go from this bizarre > self-loathing to crass commercialism (usually around 27). You know, murphy really ought to be making sure the addresses used to post to this list are valid. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0WJRUzgNqloQMwcRAuagAJ0XkHXbr617dJIYFLOPKcPRBlwXBgCgkImZ VuKvdFxeFhgAGn75OD7xYfM= =VTAe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 07:37:05PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 07:27:02PM -0800, Tom wrote: > > Anyway, thanks for making me glad I'm American paul! > > Learned it in school, not off the net. Heard it within the last month > on The History Channel as well, though the name of the program it was > on escapes me at the moment. Collective, rampant ignorance of history > and failing to learn from it's mistakes is one American tradition that > makes me say I have the grave misfortune of being American. The unfortunate thing about people like you is you go from this bizarre self-loathing to crass commercialism (usually around 27). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 07:26:52PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 06:54:48PM -0800, Tom wrote: > > This is so profoundly offensive I cannot believe you offensive. > > What you are saying is so self-evidently wrong it's laughable. > > Go take US History sometime. Go read about the effect the US revolution had on ending monarchies in Europe and how all the African colonies emulated us. Can you point to a single link backing up what you say? (Not a blog. A real history text that says the Founding Fathers were drunks and were absolutely stupid.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 07:27:02PM -0800, Tom wrote: > Anyway, thanks for making me glad I'm American paul! Learned it in school, not off the net. Heard it within the last month on The History Channel as well, though the name of the program it was on escapes me at the moment. Collective, rampant ignorance of history and failing to learn from it's mistakes is one American tradition that makes me say I have the grave misfortune of being American. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0U7hUzgNqloQMwcRAh6IAJ4pwZdWmIyCP11FbZNcqDhzibb9pACggZ/3 f/Cl+Ut/RmSY1UkW5VXgLDk= =bgKV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 05:47:46PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 06:17:17AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > Don't second-guess them; they was smart! > > They weren't smart, they were drunk; there's a difference. We don't > even trust drunks to drive these days. They fall well short of the > pedestal people put them on. > > 1) They thought the electoral college was a good idea. This has The idea of the electoral college is against the "Tyranny of the Majority." We are not a democracy. George Washington could have been King and willingly gave up power. I tried to google for "founding fathers drunks" to see if there was any basis in what you are saying, but have you noticed in the last few days all of the first 1000 hits Google returns are 'blogs? It's absolutely useless. Anyway, thanks for making me glad I'm American paul! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 06:54:48PM -0800, Tom wrote: > This is so profoundly offensive I cannot believe you offensive. > What you are saying is so self-evidently wrong it's laughable. Go take US History sometime. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0Ux8UzgNqloQMwcRApe2AJ9EaAKtocAruXyDobohjIVLjFIt+ACglFbS XY/IOtvP+3ZdlKM6M9wZpA0= =l77g -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 05:47:46PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 06:17:17AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > Don't second-guess them; they was smart! > > They weren't smart, they were drunk; there's a difference. We don't > even trust drunks to drive these days. They fall well short of the > pedestal people put them on. This is so profoundly offensive I cannot believe you offensive. What you are saying is so self-evidently wrong it's laughable. Yes, Paul, they were so stupid they changed the history of the planet. This stupid rant is *so* off the mark I can't even get mad about it, because it bears no relation to reality whatsoever. > > 1) They thought the electoral college was a good idea. This has >burned us over the years by making it easier to rig presidential >elections and gives states with large populations of stupid people >(ie California[1]) disproportionately large say. > > 2) The vast majority of the time they spent writing the "framework" >for the US was spent in a pub across the street from Independence >Hall in a drunken haze. > > > > [1] Though I'm sure if they thought a state inhabited almost entirely > by retards could one day exist, much less become very populated, they > would probably have realized how retarded the idea was even through > their drunken stupor. > > -- > .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > : :' : > `. `'` proud Debian admin and user > `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 02:11:30AM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > ...and hence not a member of any `third' party -- or am I missing > something? Confusingly enough, there's an Independent Party here. So more people claim to be Independents then actually are. If you have no party affiliation, you register as "Non-affiliated Voter." - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0TgfUzgNqloQMwcRAjUSAJ4vgDFR81RJi5ZXrgSt/JthqSmrxgCeIcjb 711EsGjE21crKtnYCajW/8E= =nnu1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 01:39:06AM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:15:11PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > > > I was aware of the indepentents; `nonzero' referred to members of > > organized `third' parties, which could run party lists under a > > Scottish-style system. AFAIK there are no party members in the Congress > > that are not Democrats or Republicans. > > You conveniently ignored the quote by the Indian fellow who complained > about how there are too many political parties. And conveniently ignores that New Hampshire has a Socialist US House member, IIRC (it's either NH or VT, and I could be wrong about which house of congress, and more than a day's drive from Oregon, it's not like it matters here anyway). > Now it was "King Andrew" Jackson who was the alleged tyrant. If he was so bad, how come he's featured in technicolor on $20? > But the Whigs were the Republicans/Democrats No, that would be the Democratic Republicans. The Whigs were the major party opposing DR. The Democratic Republicans split sometime after. > before they started using the Race-issue in an obnoxious way to do > shitty things to people, like the Democrats do now. Last I checked, most people running around in bedsheets and lighting wooden crosses on the lawns of black people claim to be Republicans. The whole not caring about your fellow man seems to mesh nicely between those two groups. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0Td9UzgNqloQMwcRAr9CAJ4w9uNY49v8CNqvvSp1D9chnmcgngCfWFqW n2NCBZo8bYSTVQjk6bIRCyU= =LKqJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 06:17:17AM -0800, Tom wrote: > Don't second-guess them; they was smart! They weren't smart, they were drunk; there's a difference. We don't even trust drunks to drive these days. They fall well short of the pedestal people put them on. 1) They thought the electoral college was a good idea. This has burned us over the years by making it easier to rig presidential elections and gives states with large populations of stupid people (ie California[1]) disproportionately large say. 2) The vast majority of the time they spent writing the "framework" for the US was spent in a pub across the street from Independence Hall in a drunken haze. [1] Though I'm sure if they thought a state inhabited almost entirely by retards could one day exist, much less become very populated, they would probably have realized how retarded the idea was even through their drunken stupor. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0TVCUzgNqloQMwcRAm0xAJoDIESRlpIxZuugyc6uP5YfssjhsACgtEw2 8knOyzQdfcJaCuRv0/gYZwE= =9ZGY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 08:01:00AM -0600, Kent West wrote: > and at this time pick from the Big Two to avoid "throwing away" your > vote. I was with you up until you said this. How does this change anything? The general election is the one that counts. The only time you throw away your vote is if you vote for what you believe to be a lesser candidate and try to justify it by saying you're throwing your vote away otherwise. That is exactly the kind of thinking that perpetuates America's binary political system. > You've still done what you've set out to do; get your 3rd-party some > name recognition by putting them on the ballot. Two serious problems with that: 1) "Third parties" already get on the general ballot. Claiming victory when they get to this point instead of backing them up through the general elections is counterproductive. 2) Not all parties hold primaries. I know the Socialist Party (at least locally) doesn't hold primaries unless there's more than one candidate running for the same office. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0TOfUzgNqloQMwcRAmG6AKDRzWbofGg6HirOXKCjYfiVH+ivWQCglBdD +j5m97TUW7WDEpEhqHYclgo= =NxHG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
ScruLoose writes: > Half of the stuff that gets called "campaign contribution" in the US > would get both parties ten years in jail if you tried it in any other > democracy in the world. And half of the stuff that gets called "campaign contribution" in other parts of the world would get both parties ten years in jail if you tried it in the US. Look up Kohl in Germany, Berlusconi in Italy, political use of Government owned television in France, and the political power of British labor unions. > How Enron donating a billion dollars (that it got from stockholders by > fraud) to G. W. Bush's presidential campaign... No presidential campaign has ever approached a billion dollars in total cost. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit Tom: > You conveniently ignored the quote by the Indian fellow who complained > about how there are too many political parties. I guess it didn't occur to me you were offering it as a serious argument. I confess I didn't pay too much attention to it, as I misread it to be coming from a USian, and thought it was offered as an example of absurdity. > In my personal opinion, the culture which is most similar to America > is India, although we took different routes to get there: they've been > through Democracy, Theocracy, Tyranny, Oligarchy, Nothingorcracy, and > Sillyocracy, and so they really don't take much of anything too > seriously nowadays. Americans don't take anything too seriously > either. This is not a comparison I would make, but it is interesting to contemplate. > The "anarcho-syndicalist" comment was hopefully a self-conscious ironic > reference to Michael Palin in The Holy Grail, I hope, and not serious. No -- I actually had in mind the Catalonian workers' militias in the Spanish Civil war (the ones who considered the Comintern-allied Communists to be right-wing). It was not really serious, though; I appreciate some aspects of their political thought, but I don't think it really workable. I tend to describe myself as an anarcho-syndicalist only when talking to Americans who think that Howard Dean is a radical leftist, only to illustrate just how centrist the `left' of American politics really is. > http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/ea/side/whig.html: > "The term Whig came into common use in 1834, and persisted until the > disintegration of the party after the presidential ELECTION of 1856. [...] I tend to associate `Whig' either with the liberal opposition in Britain (dating from the 17th century; their descendents are today's Lib-Dems) or with a rather naïve progressive view of history as the story of continual progress. The latter is the way the term tends to be used generically by historians. Either way, the term evokes a rather old-fashioned classical liberalism. -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
- Original Message - From: "Thanasis Kinias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 03:11 Subject: Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications) > scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:15:11PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > [snip] > > > I was aware of the indepentents; `nonzero' referred to members of > > > organized `third' parties, which could run party lists under a > > > Scottish-style system. AFAIK there are no party members in the > > > Congress that are not Democrats or Republicans. > > > > > bernie sanders, rep from vermont, has always been an independent. > > ...and hence not a member of any `third' party -- or am I missing > something? > I believe Mr sanders is a member of the socialist party. Hoyt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 08:01:00AM -0600, Kent West wrote: > But I kindda like the idea that others have put forward; make political > office holding (for many/most? posititions) a responsibility of normal > citizens, via random choice, like jury duty. Sure, because with random office holders absolutely *no one* would make sure their crooked partners were the ones that got picked. Our founders were very particular about making sure that Congress didn't get paid much because they did not want the type of person was just there to collect a check, which was a problem in Britain's parliament. Don't second-guess them; they was smart! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
Paul Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 05:11:58PM -0600, Kent West wrote: Vote for your third-party during the primary You can't. Primary ballots only list candidates from your own party. Yes. So register as a member of that 3rd party; vote in that 3rd party's primary for your 3rd-party candidate of choice, then when the General Election rolls around, you can "switch" candidates and vote for any candidate on the ballot, and at this time pick from the Big Two to avoid "throwing away" your vote. You've still done what you've set out to do; get your 3rd-party some name recognition by putting them on the ballot. But I kindda like the idea that others have put forward; make political office holding (for many/most? posititions) a responsibility of normal citizens, via random choice, like jury duty. Takes out the professionals and puts "real people" into office. Of course, the pay would have to be enough for the candidate to live on for the term of duty AND allow the candidate to put his normal life on pause (hire a manager for his business while he's away, hire a replacement for his job with guarantee of getting the job back after his term, etc). Lots of issues, and I reckon I'm ready to get back on-topic, so I'm outta here. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:15:11PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > I was aware of the indepentents; `nonzero' referred to members of > organized `third' parties, which could run party lists under a > Scottish-style system. AFAIK there are no party members in the Congress > that are not Democrats or Republicans. You conveniently ignored the quote by the Indian fellow who complained about how there are too many political parties. In my personal opinion, the culture which is most similar to America is India, although we took different routes to get there: they've been through Democracy, Theocracy, Tyranny, Oligarchy, Nothingorcracy, and Sillyocracy, and so they really don't take much of anything too seriously nowadays. Americans don't take anything too seriously either. The "anarcho-syndicalist" comment was hopefully a self-conscious ironic reference to Michael Palin in The Holy Grail, I hope, and not serious. http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/ea/side/whig.html: "The term Whig came into common use in 1834, and persisted until the disintegration of the party after the presidential ELECTION of 1856. The anti-Jackson groups drew upon the political history of two revolutions, the American and 17th century English, for their name. In both cases the opposition to the king had called themselves Whigs. Now it was "King Andrew" Jackson who was the alleged tyrant. The Whigs' direct political antecedents were the National Republicans, the administration party during John Quincy ADAMS' presidency (1825-1829)." Southerners originally hated Republicans because they were the Carpetbaggers who came down and acted like slimey weasel businessmen during Reconstructed. (Sometimes I pull for Osama because I know what it's like to lose a war to Americans. It galls.) Jesse Helms was originally a Democrat. Don't get me wrong: I absolutely loate and am ashamed of my fellow southerners who are consciously are subconsciously racist. (This means I loathe myself sometimes -- it rubs off). But the Whigs were the Republicans/Democrats before they started using the Race-issue in an obnoxious way to do shitty things to people, like the Democrats do now. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:15:11PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: [snip] > > I was aware of the indepentents; `nonzero' referred to members of > > organized `third' parties, which could run party lists under a > > Scottish-style system. AFAIK there are no party members in the > > Congress that are not Democrats or Republicans. > > > bernie sanders, rep from vermont, has always been an independent. ...and hence not a member of any `third' party -- or am I missing something? -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:15:11PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > scripsit Tom: > > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:32:15PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > > > > > a system (I did the math a while ago) we'd have a small but nonzero > > > number of (at least) Greens and Libertarians in the House, even with > > > > There is 1 independent Senator and 1 independent Congressman (what's the > > generic term for member of House? Representative?), so it's already > > "nonzero". > > The senator was elected as a Republican, though, and bolted, IIRC. > > I was aware of the indepentents; `nonzero' referred to members of > organized `third' parties, which could run party lists under a > Scottish-style system. AFAIK there are no party members in the Congress > that are not Democrats or Republicans. > bernie sanders, rep from vermont, has always been an independent. ben -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > David Palmer. wrote: >> Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital >> offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want >> to do the job for the right reasons. > > No. You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst possible > reasons. Under those conditions only fanatics and crackpots would run for > office. I agree. I believe that the only way to get more sensible people into desition-making positions is to make political assignments a duty rather than a voluntary assignments. I think that maybe the Athenians got it right when they even used lottery to decide who would hold certain positions. (A bit like the jury system in the US, if I am not mistaken.) -- Björn Lindström <[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bkhl.elektrubadur.se/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:05:39 -0500 ScruLoose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 09:50:35PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: > > David Palmer. wrote: > > > > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a > > > capital offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the > > > ones that want to do the job for the right reasons. > > > > No. You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst > > possible reasons. Under those conditions only fanatics and > > crackpots would run for office. > > This is true, but you could take a huge step in the right direction > just by applying a halfway-sane definition of "political bribe" in the > first place, and making sure it comes with stiff penalties. > > Half of the stuff that gets called "campaign contribution" in the US > would get both parties ten years in jail if you tried it in any other > democracy in the world. > > How Enron donating a billion dollars (that it got from stockholders by > fraud) to G. W. Bush's presidential campaign (for example) contributes > to freedom, democracy, and fair elections is a mystery to me. > Yep, and Cheneys' outfit, Haliburton, have just wound up their contract in Iraq, from what I hear. Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:50:35 -0600 John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > David Palmer. wrote: > > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that > > want to do the job for the right reasons. > > No. You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst > possible reasons. Under those conditions only fanatics and crackpots > would run for office. They do now, John. I can't tell the difference between them and game show hosts. Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 05:11:58PM -0600, Kent West wrote: > Vote for your third-party during the primary You can't. Primary ballots only list candidates from your own party. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0DNvUzgNqloQMwcRAlf1AJ47hYYA+lRN5uGAt+E0lGRr6HRFhACfSmfJ JJYlydw8gIyJDwWE1Z6W2/w= =Gssj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 09:15:28PM -0600, Kirk Strauser wrote: > Yeah. That narrows the selection pool to those too rich to need the money, > or those so inexperienced that they'd do an insanely difficult job for > peanuts. Not exactly who I want running my government. Why? You already use people inexperienced enough that they'd do an insanely difficult job for peanuts to be your EMTs and police. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/0DJkUzgNqloQMwcRAhh5AJ9L+LNhaAXAgMoOFlht8Dl8ufFgZwCg5FNU P6cKu4qsQUhqrvjdpNn1wy4= =Q8JT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit Tom: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:32:15PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > > > a system (I did the math a while ago) we'd have a small but nonzero > > number of (at least) Greens and Libertarians in the House, even with > > There is 1 independent Senator and 1 independent Congressman (what's the > generic term for member of House? Representative?), so it's already > "nonzero". The senator was elected as a Republican, though, and bolted, IIRC. I was aware of the indepentents; `nonzero' referred to members of organized `third' parties, which could run party lists under a Scottish-style system. AFAIK there are no party members in the Congress that are not Democrats or Republicans. > I want to be a Whig. Anarcho-syndicalist, myself... Well, maybe not really, but it sounds cooler than whig. ¡No pasarán! We should really take this off-list, BTW... -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
At 2003-12-05T04:08:54Z, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Actually, the salaries for most elected offices are low by the standards of > the class of people who are usually nominated by the major parties. Sure, but $26,000/year? Basically, the experienced businessman with the know-how to deliberate law but hasn't become idly rich yet can't afford to do it, and those are the guys we *should* be trying to attract. -- Kirk Strauser pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
> That narrows the selection pool to those too rich to need the money, or > those so inexperienced that they'd do an insanely difficult job for > peanuts. Actually, the salaries for most elected offices are low by the standards of the class of people who are usually nominated by the major parties. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 09:50:35PM -0600, John Hasler wrote: > David Palmer. wrote: > > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want > > to do the job for the right reasons. > > No. You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst possible > reasons. Under those conditions only fanatics and crackpots would run for > office. This is true, but you could take a huge step in the right direction just by applying a halfway-sane definition of "political bribe" in the first place, and making sure it comes with stiff penalties. Half of the stuff that gets called "campaign contribution" in the US would get both parties ten years in jail if you tried it in any other democracy in the world. How Enron donating a billion dollars (that it got from stockholders by fraud) to G. W. Bush's presidential campaign (for example) contributes to freedom, democracy, and fair elections is a mystery to me. Cheers! -- ---<>--- There are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare. - Blair Houghton --<>-- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
scripsit John Hasler: > David Palmer. wrote: > > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want > > to do the job for the right reasons. > > No. You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst possible > reasons. Under those conditions only fanatics and crackpots would run for > office. $500 a week? Sounds like the Arizona state legislature's pay. Fanatics and crackpots? Um, I do believe Mr. Hasler has a point... -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
David Palmer. wrote: > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want > to do the job for the right reasons. No. You'd get the ones that want to do the job for all the worst possible reasons. Under those conditions only fanatics and crackpots would run for office. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit Monique Y. Herman: > Friends of mine postulated the idea of having "politician duty" in > much the same was as we have jury duty ... you get a letter one day > telling you it's your turn to serve. Pretty sure this was done in at > least one ancient govt ... think it was Athens. Funny that you came up with that; my recent political utopianizing (if I may coin a word) involved much the opposite -- a dedicated active citizenry which would be required to give up private property. The problem this was intended to address is the corrupting influence a politician's particular, private interests exert on his or her attention to the greater interests of the community. The goal was to eliminate the distinction, on the part of the decision makers, between their particular interest and the general good. The result (which is, of course, problematic for other reasons) is something like a philosopher-aristocracy. -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
At 2003-12-04T11:13:33Z, "David Palmer." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want to > do the job for the right reasons. Regards, Yeah. That narrows the selection pool to those too rich to need the money, or those so inexperienced that they'd do an insanely difficult job for peanuts. Not exactly who I want running my government. Not that *any* of this has to do with Debian, mind you. -- Kirk Strauser In Googlis non est, ergo non est. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Pro ject Emergency Communications)
> -Original Message- > From: Monique Y. Herman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, 5 December 2003 7:48 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: > Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications) > > > On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 at 17:56 GMT, Paul Johnson penned: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:13:33PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote: > >> Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it > a capital > >> offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that > >> want to do the job for the right reasons. > > > > Would also encourage just random people to get a job as a > politician > > because it would be a reasonable income. > > > > Friends of mine postulated the idea of having "politician > duty" in much the same was as we have jury duty ... you get a > letter one day telling you it's your turn to serve. Pretty > sure this was done in at least one ancient govt ... think it > was Athens. > This idea was explored in more detail in the novel Red Mars (or Green Mars, I forget which). m -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 at 01:06 GMT, Jason A Whittle penned: > I'm sorry that my first post to debian-user is so off-topic, and that > I don't have a key yet. I hope to rectify the latter ASAP. > > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 01:34:11PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: >> In theory, we have a multi-party system. In practice, voting for a >> "third-party" candidate is a wasted vote, because everyone "knows" >> that every vote cast outside of the Big Two is wasted, and so no one >> bothers. >> >> If we had a system in which we could vote more than once, for example >> by specifying a first, second, and third choice, maybe we would see >> some shake-up. > > The concept I believe you're formulating is commonly called Instant > Runoff Voting. It's an exciting voting reform developed in the 1870s > that has been gaining some small momentum of late. > Ah, yeah, that's what it's called! There are a lot of alternate voting schemes out there. Seems there's a decent chance that some of them might be better than what we have. -- monique -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
I'm sorry that my first post to debian-user is so off-topic, and that I don't have a key yet. I hope to rectify the latter ASAP. On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 01:34:11PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote: > In theory, we have a multi-party system. In practice, voting for a > "third-party" candidate is a wasted vote, because everyone "knows" that > every vote cast outside of the Big Two is wasted, and so no one bothers. > > If we had a system in which we could vote more than once, for example by > specifying a first, second, and third choice, maybe we would see some > shake-up. The concept I believe you're formulating is commonly called Instant Runoff Voting. It's an exciting voting reform developed in the 1870s that has been gaining some small momentum of late. Cheers, Jason Whittle -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
Monique Y. Herman wrote: On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 at 12:38 GMT, Hoyt Bailey penned: - Original Message - From: "Monique Y. Herman" In theory, we have a multi-party system. In practice, voting for a "third-party" candidate is a wasted vote, because everyone "knows" that every vote cast outside of the Big Two is wasted, and so no one bothers. If we had a system in which we could vote more than once, for example by specifying a first, second, and third choice, maybe we would see some shake-up. Vote for your third-party during the primary, to get the third party some name-recognition and perhaps on the general ballot, and then vote for the lesser-of-two-evils in the General Election. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:32:15PM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > a system (I did the math a while ago) we'd have a small but nonzero > number of (at least) Greens and Libertarians in the House, even with There is 1 independent Senator and 1 independent Congressman (what's the generic term for member of House? Representative?), so it's already "nonzero". I tried to google for "why do we have poltical parties" to find something good the Founders said but came across this great post: Why do we have so many political parties? I suggest that a Constitutianal change is necessary to limit the number. from http://discussions.samachar.com/HyperNews/get/forums/editorials/64.html "The Bookmark for the Global Indian"... so the grass isn't always greener... I want to be a Whig. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit Monique Y. Herman: > If we had a system in which we could vote more than once, for example > by specifying a first, second, and third choice, maybe we would see > some shake-up. Maybe we should let Debian run U.S. elections then? ;) [attempt to make this a bit less OT...] Seriously, a good first step would be proportional representation. Check out how the devolved Scottish Parliament does things. Under such a system (I did the math a while ago) we'd have a small but nonzero number of (at least) Greens and Libertarians in the House, even with current voting percentages. Once people like Monique realized that a vote for the Greens (or whomever) wasn't completely wasted, those numbers would surely rise. I believe the German federal parliament has a similar system; perhaps our EU brethren can comment... -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 at 12:38 GMT, Hoyt Bailey penned: > > - Original Message - From: "Monique Y. Herman" >> >> I tend to think that the reason you're okay with the right and the >> left taking turns is that, for the most part, the politicians on both >> sides are nothing but center. I'm sick of republicrats and >> democricans alike. >> >> -- monique "two-party systems suck" >> > We dont have a two party system. There is the green party, comunist > party, independent party and several others. The problem is only 1% > or so support them (All of them). Hoyt > In theory, we have a multi-party system. In practice, voting for a "third-party" candidate is a wasted vote, because everyone "knows" that every vote cast outside of the Big Two is wasted, and so no one bothers. If we had a system in which we could vote more than once, for example by specifying a first, second, and third choice, maybe we would see some shake-up. I don't believe that the Big Two are so well-represented because people actually believe that they're any good. I believe they're well-represented because voters believe a vote for another party will simply reduce their chances of getting the "lesser evil" of the two. Me, I don't like the democratic party, but I'd rather see them in office than the republicans. Others feel the opposite. Either way, we're not going to vote for a third party candidate if we feel it's a wasted vote. -- monique -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 at 17:56 GMT, Paul Johnson penned: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:13:33PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote: >> Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital >> offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that >> want to do the job for the right reasons. > > Would also encourage just random people to get a job as a politician > because it would be a reasonable income. > Friends of mine postulated the idea of having "politician duty" in much the same was as we have jury duty ... you get a letter one day telling you it's your turn to serve. Pretty sure this was done in at least one ancient govt ... think it was Athens. "Random people" have a much better chance of aligning with my interests than politicians. The fact is, anyone who's willing to put themselves and their family through the torture that is a politician's life by definition does not share my values. -- monique -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
Paul Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:13:33PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote: Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want to do the job for the right reasons. Would also encourage just random people to get a job as a politician because it would be a reasonable income. Works for me. They'd still have to get elected and do a half-decent job to get re-elected, and it's my opinion that the fewer "professionals" we have in office the better. Of course, I could be totally daft. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 07:13:33PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote: > Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital > offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want > to do the job for the right reasons. Would also encourage just random people to get a job as a politician because it would be a reasonable income. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/z3VNUzgNqloQMwcRArlNAJ42xdX20PLfHZ4DuBwL1JNAjAhgIACcDFV1 8uDOhUKxBI2D21m+ZTuriCg= =oLjO -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
- Original Message - From: "Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 14:14 Subject: Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications) > On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 at 20:04 GMT, Tom penned: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: > >> > >> And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox. > > > > I like it when we take turns. I hope the left will play nice on the > > playground and accept that we're alternating decades. They had a nice > > long run with Clinton following a nice long run with Reagan. It would > > be rude not to let the right have a nice long turn. > > > > I will be vehemently against the left in this election but in 2008 it > > will be their turn again, *if* they can exhibit the patience and > > maturity. It will be so lovely if we play nice with each other and > > take nice turns. > > > > I tend to think that the reason you're okay with the right and the left > taking turns is that, for the most part, the politicians on both sides > are nothing but center. I'm sick of republicrats and democricans alike. > > -- > monique "two-party systems suck" > We dont have a two party system. There is the green party, comunist party, independent party and several others. The problem is only 1% or so support them (All of them). Hoyt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:01:13 -0800 Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:53:29PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote: > > > Two parties, sharing power, no difference between the two other than > > name. > > I used to be like that, all mad at everybody. The internal assumption > > that validates it to yourself is "I could do it much better, if > only..." > > Once I had a few experiences I have a lot more sympathies for > politicians. They're doing the best they can with an absurd > situation. > > You can't underestimate just how random the combined opinions of > thousands of people with every viewpoint under the sun are. I know > *I* couldn't do any better. > > I'm not mad at anyone. If there is a form of arrogance that displays a lack of experience, it's analysis at a distance. Put all politicians on a wage of $500.00/week, and make it a capital offense to take a political bribe, and you would get the ones that want to do the job for the right reasons. Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 05:36:18PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > Granted. But that's why I go to a real Taco Bell instead. Or, > politically speaking, why I was driven to socialism. You'll change. You're Echo Boomer. Your parents, the Baby Boomers, went from being WWII babies, to Hippies, to Disco, to Yuppies, to Soccer Moms, to Stock Market People. All that you believe will pass away. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:53:29PM +0800, David Palmer. wrote: > Two parties, sharing power, no difference between the two other than > name. I used to be like that, all mad at everybody. The internal assumption that validates it to yourself is "I could do it much better, if only..." Once I had a few experiences I have a lot more sympathies for politicians. They're doing the best they can with an absurd situation. You can't underestimate just how random the combined opinions of thousands of people with every viewpoint under the sun are. I know *I* couldn't do any better. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:14:24 -0700 "Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 at 20:04 GMT, Tom penned: > > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: > >> > >> And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox. > > > > I like it when we take turns. I hope the left will play nice on the > > playground and accept that we're alternating decades. They had a > > nice long run with Clinton following a nice long run with Reagan. > > It would be rude not to let the right have a nice long turn. > > > > I will be vehemently against the left in this election but in 2008 > > it will be their turn again, *if* they can exhibit the patience and > > maturity. It will be so lovely if we play nice with each other and > > take nice turns. > > > > I tend to think that the reason you're okay with the right and the > left taking turns is that, for the most part, the politicians on both > sides are nothing but center. I'm sick of republicrats and > democricans alike. > > -- > monique "two-party systems suck" > That's right. It's all a game. Two parties, sharing power, no difference between the two other than name. Regards, David. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 09:21:57AM -0700, Thanasis Kinias wrote: > scripsit Paul Johnson: > > > Preface: I was born in 1982, and in my opinion, Clinton is the best > > president we've had in my lifetime (don't bother flaming me for this, > > you won't change my mind, and Carter was before my time). > > Not many to choose from there... sorta like trying to pick the best > thing on the menu at a Taco Bell Express... Granted. But that's why I go to a real Taco Bell instead. Or, politically speaking, why I was driven to socialism. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/zo+SUzgNqloQMwcRAj/+AKDP3JX4D3yvN3NPvi4eAsoXv3hCyQCfXJVn VLnSYKKuNYdWRlZ5z2UTMQc= =R4XC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 12:04:27PM -0800, Tom wrote: > I like it when we take turns. I hope the left will play nice on the > playground and accept that we're alternating decades. They had a nice > long run with Clinton following a nice long run with Reagan. It would > be rude not to let the right have a nice long turn. Actually, it would be rude to go any longer letting the right continue broken voodoo economics and campaign contributor pork barrel. > I will be vehemently against the left in this election but in 2008 it > will be their turn again, *if* they can exhibit the patience and > maturity. In my lifetime, the Democrats show it sporadically, but Republicans have never shown it. I believe Lincoln would be ashamed what happened to his party. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/zo8iUzgNqloQMwcRAtNUAKCCZnetOlnbwVtdJ21FK5xFUNEGQwCg4MQA 8HaJIps7Aj8as2rfltUmJP8= =fGxS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: > And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox. Yup, the last resort of a liar or bigot trying to be taken seriously. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/zo64UzgNqloQMwcRAu0NAJ9nR6o7tXMbIlAiveyDOD94iroxmACgobf7 fuMYrqQJ0TcXcbnnOyv+Grk= =5LF0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 at 20:04 GMT, Tom penned: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: >> >> And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox. > > I like it when we take turns. I hope the left will play nice on the > playground and accept that we're alternating decades. They had a nice > long run with Clinton following a nice long run with Reagan. It would > be rude not to let the right have a nice long turn. > > I will be vehemently against the left in this election but in 2008 it > will be their turn again, *if* they can exhibit the patience and > maturity. It will be so lovely if we play nice with each other and > take nice turns. > I tend to think that the reason you're okay with the right and the left taking turns is that, for the most part, the politicians on both sides are nothing but center. I'm sick of republicrats and democricans alike. -- monique "two-party systems suck" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 07:12:33AM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: > > And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox. I like it when we take turns. I hope the left will play nice on the playground and accept that we're alternating decades. They had a nice long run with Clinton following a nice long run with Reagan. It would be rude not to let the right have a nice long turn. I will be vehemently against the left in this election but in 2008 it will be their turn again, *if* they can exhibit the patience and maturity. It will be so lovely if we play nice with each other and take nice turns. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:36:48 -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Please quote appropriately. http://learn.to/quote/ > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 06:41:04AM -0800, Tom wrote: > (re: news) >> > Exception CNN 0% Fox News 90% +/- (depending on source) >> >> I'll agree Fox is for the stupid, but it's better than 40 movies being >> made about the president getting some poon on the side :-) > > CNN isn't horribly credible to me since AOL bought them out. Now the > only real difference between CNN and FNC is CNN is for the merely > stupid, whereas Fox News is for the criminally stupid. > > And everyone seems to SHOUT on Fox. -- paul "I think that gay marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit Paul Johnson: > Preface: I was born in 1982, and in my opinion, Clinton is the best > president we've had in my lifetime (don't bother flaming me for this, > you won't change my mind, and Carter was before my time). Not many to choose from there... sorta like trying to pick the best thing on the menu at a Taco Bell Express... -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:46:36PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > IIRC, Bill didn't use a paper bag, but rather hid under the desk. I think you mean *she* hid under the desk. The image the other way around is not pretty. > Preface: I was born in 1982, and in my opinion, Clinton is the best > president we've had in my lifetime I respect him in a Machiavellian sense; he got shit done. But his whole moral outlook set a bad tone for the country: our ethics were diminished by him. By the end (the pardons in the last days) even his best friends were ashamed of him. In 1992, I saw my girlfriend and everybody's wives fall under his spell, and the one lesson of politics my friends is: Rock is Cock. Women vote for who they'd rather fuck, and men's morals are based on "do whatever to keep who lays you happy". :-) Realpolitik enough? > Grateful Dead was more weed and LSD. Jerry Garcia was my hero, but even I can recognize that he was just a burnt out Heroin addict. Just because he was the coolest guy ever doesn't mean he wasn't a sad wreck who died for a bad reason. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:20:31PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > I have no faith in America. Not that I wish it ill, quite the > contrary. It could have been great. We just let the greedy get too > powerful. Last I checked, America was supposed to be by the people, > for the people, not by the people for the rich and privleged. They used to laugh at us because we were fatter than everybody else. Now I've been hearing about how fat the fast of the developped world is getting too. They blame us, but I don't buy it. A *true* philosophy of equality amoung humanity recognizes that nobody is any worse, but nor is anybody any better, than anybody else. Poverty and disease tends to breed things like religion and passions. Relative absences of those (our homeless can be fat) is us :-) I wonder if it'll always be like that... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:57:04PM -0800, Tom wrote: > Well, I don't agree with either part of that, but I don't believe the > opposite. I don't see a liberal or conserative slant in CNN, but I do > see a bias towards "artificial" news which is to me more oppressive. That's what I was getting at, I thought. > I don't think right-wingers are criminally stupid, just cloying. There's a difference, when it comes to running a superpower? Cloying is fine on a small scale, but when it comes to big issues, let's get something done instead of using my money for handouts to campaign contributors. > I enjoyed watching the news in Canada. The TV announcers generally used > longer sentences and posited more complex concepts. American TV is > written or no more than 5th grade comrehension. This is true. I usually watch the local CBC affiliate for national and international news (I'm in Portland, Oregon). http://vancouver.cbc.ca/ > An older female reporter in Boston tried a "smarter" news show and the > ratings were horrible. Unfortunately we tend to get what we deserve. > Look inward. I have no faith in America. Not that I wish it ill, quite the contrary. It could have been great. We just let the greedy get too powerful. Last I checked, America was supposed to be by the people, for the people, not by the people for the rich and privleged. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/zY6/UzgNqloQMwcRAmRWAJ9DiG4Hjyte3YxVhjlgvY/aqcyL4gCg5Tt3 J7Fj0YIZtNvgCDsB/3Dv7jc= =QIuA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:36:48PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > > CNN isn't horribly credible to me since AOL bought them out. Now the > only real difference between CNN and FNC is CNN is for the merely > stupid, whereas Fox News is for the criminally stupid. Well, I don't agree with either part of that, but I don't believe the opposite. I don't see a liberal or conserative slant in CNN, but I do see a bias towards "artificial" news which is to me more oppressive. I don't think right-wingers are criminally stupid, just cloying. I enjoyed watching the news in Canada. The TV announcers generally used longer sentences and posited more complex concepts. American TV is written or no more than 5th grade comrehension. An older female reporter in Boston tried a "smarter" news show and the ratings were horrible. Unfortunately we tend to get what we deserve. Look inward. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:53:21AM -0800, Tom wrote: > OTOH, you have to respect Bill falling for the paper bag types. I can > sure identify... IIRC, Bill didn't use a paper bag, but rather hid under the desk. Which begs the question, is the type Bill falls for the "desktop" or "laptop" variety? 8;o) > Some other great stories I've heard are Willie Nelson smoking a > joint on the roof of the whitehouse, the Grateful Dead snorting coke > in the whitehouse bathroom while the Secret Service were around, Preface: I was born in 1982, and in my opinion, Clinton is the best president we've had in my lifetime (don't bother flaming me for this, you won't change my mind, and Carter was before my time). Grateful Dead was more weed and LSD. Coke or weed sounds equally believable to me with Willie Nelson for some reason. And I have to agree with Dana Carvey: I'm pretty sure the DEA was giving Bill all the primo weed they were confiscating. Somewhat indecisive, jogs to McDonalds...read the clues! > and Elvis tripping on LSD with Nixon. I would pay to see that. > There's a great book out now called "First off the Tee" about all > the presidents and their golf games. You'd be surprised how much > the stereotypes are true. Kennedy was the best golfer. Clinton > cheats like hell on the course and makes you go along with it... > Saw it on Cspan. Gotta love Government Access. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/zYbMUzgNqloQMwcRAjT/AJ9H4bTXPEsj5XE4e91wX4l3hDX9zACgl2iv lNg1Y325TUautd51MT6bNeQ= =XxpK -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Please quote appropriately. http://learn.to/quote/ On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 06:41:04AM -0800, Tom wrote: (re: news) > > Exception CNN 0% Fox News 90% +/- (depending on source) > > I'll agree Fox is for the stupid, but it's better than 40 movies being > made about the president getting some poon on the side :-) CNN isn't horribly credible to me since AOL bought them out. Now the only real difference between CNN and FNC is CNN is for the merely stupid, whereas Fox News is for the criminally stupid. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/zYSAUzgNqloQMwcRAo3kAKDLT0qRdhez33zek2I1XV6Av8rlIACgvYXz pLilsyd9ZEPGcuv+E7LKYBc= =2uFM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
Thus spake Thanasis Kinias ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > scripsit Tom: > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:53:21AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > > .. Elvis tripping on LSD with Nixon. > > > > s/with/in front of/ > > It's much funnier the other way... This was presumably the occasion when RMN make Elvis a special anti-drug agent, something Elvis was apparently inordinately proud of. Nobody mentioned the Beatles rolling up and smoking a joint in the washrooms of Buckingham Palace when they went to collect their MBEs in 1965. -- |Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood| |Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. | |email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
scripsit Tom: > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:53:21AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > .. Elvis tripping on LSD with Nixon. > > s/with/in front of/ It's much funnier the other way... -- Pax vobiscum; pax cum omnibus. Thanasis Kinias tkinias at asu.edu Doctoral Student, Department of History Arizona State University Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:53:21AM -0800, Tom wrote: > .. Elvis tripping on LSD with Nixon. s/with/in front of/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 12:29:59PM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote: > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:41:04 -0800, Tom wrote: > > > > > I'll agree Fox is for the stupid, but it's better than 40 movies being > > made about the president getting some poon on the side :-) > > > > I have this persistent vision of a retired World Leaders' cocktail party, > with a conversation whcih goes something like this: > > "Hi, I'm Yiztak and I won a Nobel Peace Prize. This is Yassir, and he won > one too." > > "Pleased to meet you. I'm Bill and I got a hummer in the Oval Office of > the White House." > > silence. > > I mean, that pretty much trumps everything, doesn't it? > I think JFK + Marilyn Monroe probably tops it. Or Frank Sinatra + Nancy Reagan (but only 'cause Frank was so cool). OTOH, you have to respect Bill falling for the paper bag types. I can sure identify... Some other great stories I've heard are Willie Nelson smoking a joint on the roof of the whitehouse, the Grateful Dead snorting coke in the whitehouse bathroom while the Secret Service were around, and Elvis tripping on LSD with Nixon. There's a great book out now called "First off the Tee" about all the presidents and their golf games. You'd be surprised how much the stereotypes are true. Kennedy was the best golfer. Clinton cheats like hell on the course and makes you go along with it... Saw it on Cspan. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:41:04 -0800, Tom wrote: > > I'll agree Fox is for the stupid, but it's better than 40 movies being > made about the president getting some poon on the side :-) > I have this persistent vision of a retired World Leaders' cocktail party, with a conversation whcih goes something like this: "Hi, I'm Yiztak and I won a Nobel Peace Prize. This is Yassir, and he won one too." "Pleased to meet you. I'm Bill and I got a hummer in the Oval Office of the White House." silence. I mean, that pretty much trumps everything, doesn't it? -- paul "The average lifespan of a Web page today is 100 days. This is no way to run a culture." Internet Archive Board Chairman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 07:21:25AM -0600, Hoyt Bailey wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "csj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 18:25 > Subject: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project > Emergency Communications) > > > > On 1. December 2003 at 7:51AM +0800, > > "David Palmer." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:01:22 -0800 > > > "Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > on Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 09:53:37PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman > > > > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 at 03:22 GMT, John Hasler penned: > > > > > > Monique wrote: > > > > > > > The difference is that, by allowing replies to > > > > > > > accumulate and reading them filtered to +3, you have a > > > > > > > decent chance of finding out when a submission was > > > > > > > likely off-base. > > > > In practically all slashdot stories I've read (I wouldn't > > necessarily call them news), there are always links to check out. > > This is how I initially found out about the Debian compromise > > (actually it was via a slashdot RDF newsfeed). I read the blurb, > > checked the link(s?) and then went googling around. To rely 100% > > on slashdot is as dangerous as relying 100% on CNN or Fox News. > > > > Exception CNN 0% Fox News 90% +/- (depending on source) I'll agree Fox is for the stupid, but it's better than 40 movies being made about the president getting some poon on the side :-) > > > > > > > That's what I meant by corrections. Whenever Slashdot > > > > > > screws up I can be fairly certain that several of its > > > > > > thousands of knowledgeable readers will gleefully point > > > > > > out the error. > > > > Slashdot never screws up. A forum never screws up. > > > > > > > Agreed. But I wanted to be clear, both to you and to > > > > > everyone else, that slashdot's front page is *not* in any > > > > > way guaranteed to be accurate. Taking any of their blurbs > > > > > at face value tends to make an ass out of you ... > > > > > > > > The blurbs are written by the article submitter, and > > > > (generally) not Slashdot's editors. > > > > Slashdot has editors? Now that's news. I've always thought of > > Slashdot as the text-based equivalent of a talk show. Somebody > > comes up with an item for discussion, and a panel of commentators > > begin firing away. Of course, talk shows, like some mailing > > lists (not Debian User), have moderators, who have the privilege > > of deciding what initial topic gets discussed. > > > > > > The submitter may be wrong, misinformed, biased, or have an > > > > axe to grind. Or not. > > > > > > > > The "mainstream" media have gross factual errors in about > > > > 30-50% of stories. Without, as noted here, the instant > > > > feedback offered by Slashdot and other online sites. > > > > I don't know about the "instant". But most newspapers worth > > their name have the equivalent of a "letters" section. > > > > > The mainstream media also have an extremely high 'tame' factor. > > > The political strategy is always involved with maintaining a > > > common doctrine so as to maintain a population mass proceeding > > > in what is perceived as a 'common productive direction', for > > > example. This is a marketable commodity. It is also a path > > > that diverges from that of the honest one. There are reasons > > > why, for example, that journalists in warzones have their > > > stories 'vetted' before they are approved for release to the > > > outside world. > > > > I can understand the vetting done to so-called "embedded" > > journalists. > > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications)
- Original Message - From: "csj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 18:25 Subject: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications) > On 1. December 2003 at 7:51AM +0800, > "David Palmer." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:01:22 -0800 > > "Karsten M. Self" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > on Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 09:53:37PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman > > > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 at 03:22 GMT, John Hasler penned: > > > > > Monique wrote: > > > > > > The difference is that, by allowing replies to > > > > > > accumulate and reading them filtered to +3, you have a > > > > > > decent chance of finding out when a submission was > > > > > > likely off-base. > > In practically all slashdot stories I've read (I wouldn't > necessarily call them news), there are always links to check out. > This is how I initially found out about the Debian compromise > (actually it was via a slashdot RDF newsfeed). I read the blurb, > checked the link(s?) and then went googling around. To rely 100% > on slashdot is as dangerous as relying 100% on CNN or Fox News. > Exception CNN 0% Fox News 90% +/- (depending on source) > > > > > That's what I meant by corrections. Whenever Slashdot > > > > > screws up I can be fairly certain that several of its > > > > > thousands of knowledgeable readers will gleefully point > > > > > out the error. > > Slashdot never screws up. A forum never screws up. > > > > > Agreed. But I wanted to be clear, both to you and to > > > > everyone else, that slashdot's front page is *not* in any > > > > way guaranteed to be accurate. Taking any of their blurbs > > > > at face value tends to make an ass out of you ... > > > > > > The blurbs are written by the article submitter, and > > > (generally) not Slashdot's editors. > > Slashdot has editors? Now that's news. I've always thought of > Slashdot as the text-based equivalent of a talk show. Somebody > comes up with an item for discussion, and a panel of commentators > begin firing away. Of course, talk shows, like some mailing > lists (not Debian User), have moderators, who have the privilege > of deciding what initial topic gets discussed. > > > > The submitter may be wrong, misinformed, biased, or have an > > > axe to grind. Or not. > > > > > > The "mainstream" media have gross factual errors in about > > > 30-50% of stories. Without, as noted here, the instant > > > feedback offered by Slashdot and other online sites. > > I don't know about the "instant". But most newspapers worth > their name have the equivalent of a "letters" section. > > > The mainstream media also have an extremely high 'tame' factor. > > The political strategy is always involved with maintaining a > > common doctrine so as to maintain a population mass proceeding > > in what is perceived as a 'common productive direction', for > > example. This is a marketable commodity. It is also a path > > that diverges from that of the honest one. There are reasons > > why, for example, that journalists in warzones have their > > stories 'vetted' before they are approved for release to the > > outside world. > > I can understand the vetting done to so-called "embedded" > journalists. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Slashdot and media accuracy
csj writes: > I don't know about the "instant". But most newspapers worth their name > have the equivalent of a "letters" section. Which print only a minuscule fraction of the letters received. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
