Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On 17/02/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 08:22:03AM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote: > > On 17/02/2008, KS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Could you elaborate on the 6-bit / 8-bit bit a bit? When I do finally > > get an LCD (probably in another six months or so, if I can help it), I > > want to know about this. One of the main functions of our desktop is > > Digikam (photos) so quality photo reproduction is important to us. > > > I've only seen a few professionals viewing images on a screen. None of > them were using a CRT. > > I'm a CCU nurse. Sure, one can call up xrays on the normal desktop > display, but if you want to see anything in detail and especially make > any treatment decisions, you go over to the big CRT and call it up. I've seen those super-high resolution B&W Rentgoen monitors at hospitals. Very impressive indeed, though I don't think that they are very practical for home use. > I bought my 21" Intergraph CRT off-lease for $250. It has a slight > aberration in one corner but I know its there and wouldn't retouch a > photo in that section without panning away from it. Off-lease may be > one options for you to get good image quality without breaking the bank. > > Think of the resolution of a camera. Kodak Kodachrome professional > ISO25 slide film has always been the gold-standard. When you look at > the grain density and do the math, it comes out to around 32 MPixel. > A Nikon digital SLR is around 18 MPixel, with consumer-grade digital > cameras lower still. > > Take an 8x10" glossy print made from that Kodachrom slide. 80 square > inches for 32 MPixel (well, less since the paper isn't as good as the > slide). That's 409.6 Kpixel per square inch. Square-root > that and you get 647 dpi. So, you use a larger monitor. Think of a CRT > at 1600 x 1200. That's 1.8 Mpixel. Double that to 3200 x 2400 and you > get 7.3 MPixel. > > How tightly packed are those pixels? Large-screen flat-panels may give > you large X x Y but at what size screen? How easy is it to edit a > picture at 3200 x 2400 if the screen is 6 feet wide? > > Then you have to look at contrast, number of bits per pixel. My CRT is > the standard X.org max of 24 bits/pixel. > > What is the source of the images you'll be editing? How may MPixels, > how many bits/pixel? If its from physical media, what are the specs on > the digitizer/scanner? What are the specs on the printer you'll use? > > Just some thoughts. > > Doug. We're not doing any photo retouching, only looking at pictures shot with 3-7 MP home cameras. However, as it is our primary way of viewing the photos, we want something decent. I'm thinking about a minimum resolution of 1600x1200 and the best colour possible. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, I haven't googled this, but in looking around for a flatpanel LCD monitor, what are the positive things to look for and the negative things to avoid? Since the world is moving to flatpanels... Thanks people, very helpful responses. Especially the #colors of 16.7 meg and the !TN. But CRT's despite Doug's argument are now "out of style", and cost more, more power consumption. And that on the wiring of this place! I googled an Acer AL2216Wbd for $229.99 which uses 55W and 16.7M colors. But if I can get it here? That TN is hard to google for: too detailed, I guess. Thanks again. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 08:22:03AM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote: > On 17/02/2008, KS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Could you elaborate on the 6-bit / 8-bit bit a bit? When I do finally > get an LCD (probably in another six months or so, if I can help it), I > want to know about this. One of the main functions of our desktop is > Digikam (photos) so quality photo reproduction is important to us. I've only seen a few professionals viewing images on a screen. None of them were using a CRT. I'm a CCU nurse. Sure, one can call up xrays on the normal desktop display, but if you want to see anything in detail and especially make any treatment decisions, you go over to the big CRT and call it up. I bought my 21" Intergraph CRT off-lease for $250. It has a slight aberration in one corner but I know its there and wouldn't retouch a photo in that section without panning away from it. Off-lease may be one options for you to get good image quality without breaking the bank. Think of the resolution of a camera. Kodak Kodachrome professional ISO25 slide film has always been the gold-standard. When you look at the grain density and do the math, it comes out to around 32 MPixel. A Nikon digital SLR is around 18 MPixel, with consumer-grade digital cameras lower still. Take an 8x10" glossy print made from that Kodachrom slide. 80 square inches for 32 MPixel (well, less since the paper isn't as good as the slide). That's 409.6 Kpixel per square inch. Square-root that and you get 647 dpi. So, you use a larger monitor. Think of a CRT at 1600 x 1200. That's 1.8 Mpixel. Double that to 3200 x 2400 and you get 7.3 MPixel. How tightly packed are those pixels? Large-screen flat-panels may give you large X x Y but at what size screen? How easy is it to edit a picture at 3200 x 2400 if the screen is 6 feet wide? Then you have to look at contrast, number of bits per pixel. My CRT is the standard X.org max of 24 bits/pixel. What is the source of the images you'll be editing? How may MPixels, how many bits/pixel? If its from physical media, what are the specs on the digitizer/scanner? What are the specs on the printer you'll use? Just some thoughts. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On 17/02/2008, KS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 6-bits/colour means the monitor can give you 2^6+2^6+2^6 colours = > 262,144 where as an 8-bit/colour would mean it can give you 16,777,216 > colours. > > With the 6-bit/colour they use some kind of dithering to reproduce > 16.2million colours. (but if they are using dithering, why can't they > produce 16.7m colours?) > > Here is a good article on this topic > http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/6bit_8bit.htm Thanks. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
Dotan Cohen wrote: > On 17/02/2008, KS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> My Sony monitor has "shut down" too. By shut down I mean that it isn't >> showing anything, and that I haven't opened it up to see if it can be >> repaired another time. So I went checking what is there in the market >> these days. I found out that most of the (cheap) LCD monitors are >> 6-bit/colour and use some algorithm to show other colours (CRTs are >> 8bit). There is a big difference if you see a photo on a CRT and then >> see the same one on a cheap LCD. If you want to have a good colours on >> your LCD, be ready to pay upwards of 150% than that of a cheap LCD for >> an 8-bit LCD. >> >> I have heard that Dells 2007WFP is 8-bit. >> >> HTH. >> > > Could you elaborate on the 6-bit / 8-bit bit a bit? When I do finally > get an LCD (probably in another six months or so, if I can help it), I > want to know about this. One of the main functions of our desktop is > Digikam (photos) so quality photo reproduction is important to us. > 6-bits/colour means the monitor can give you 2^6+2^6+2^6 colours = 262,144 where as an 8-bit/colour would mean it can give you 16,777,216 colours. With the 6-bit/colour they use some kind of dithering to reproduce 16.2million colours. (but if they are using dithering, why can't they produce 16.7m colours?) Here is a good article on this topic http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/6bit_8bit.htm HTH, KS. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On 17/02/2008, KS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My Sony monitor has "shut down" too. By shut down I mean that it isn't > showing anything, and that I haven't opened it up to see if it can be > repaired another time. So I went checking what is there in the market > these days. I found out that most of the (cheap) LCD monitors are > 6-bit/colour and use some algorithm to show other colours (CRTs are > 8bit). There is a big difference if you see a photo on a CRT and then > see the same one on a cheap LCD. If you want to have a good colours on > your LCD, be ready to pay upwards of 150% than that of a cheap LCD for > an 8-bit LCD. > > I have heard that Dells 2007WFP is 8-bit. > > HTH. > Could you elaborate on the 6-bit / 8-bit bit a bit? When I do finally get an LCD (probably in another six months or so, if I can help it), I want to know about this. One of the main functions of our desktop is Digikam (photos) so quality photo reproduction is important to us. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't googled this, but in looking around for a flatpanel LCD > monitor, what are the positive things to look for and the negative > things to avoid? Since the world is moving to flatpanels... > > Hugo > > My Sony monitor has "shut down" too. By shut down I mean that it isn't showing anything, and that I haven't opened it up to see if it can be repaired another time. So I went checking what is there in the market these days. I found out that most of the (cheap) LCD monitors are 6-bit/colour and use some algorithm to show other colours (CRTs are 8bit). There is a big difference if you see a photo on a CRT and then see the same one on a cheap LCD. If you want to have a good colours on your LCD, be ready to pay upwards of 150% than that of a cheap LCD for an 8-bit LCD. I have heard that Dells 2007WFP is 8-bit. HTH. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On 2/15/08, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So why would anybody give up a 21" CRT? Sure you need a bigger desk, > but isn't that good for the ego too? Well, if the tube or electronics go south in the thing, then you have to give it up, or else get it repaired :(. I've had 2 monitors go south on me, first a 15" sampo (this about 10 years ago or so), it didn't last very long, and I was quoted a horrendous repair bill and told the guy I wasn't interested in repairing it. Evidently some component in the microprocessor board fried, and they needed to replace the whole subassembly and not just the one fried part. My 17" Nokia lasted me for many years but it too gave up the ghost as it would automatically shut down at the worst times (like when typing in an email). So I got a cheap monitor (I'm not using it ATM, so don't recall the model #) for like $50 locally and it works, but it's also very hard to read. But I got this latest monitor - it's a ViewSonic E90 17" and it's absolutely wonderful - it feels like it may be a 19" resolution-wise. And I got it for free (swap) too. I doubt I'll be switching anytime soon. There's little room on my desk for anything bigger, so barring any unforeseen electronic glitches, I hope I'll be using this monitor for some time to come. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 04:57:42PM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote: > On 15/02/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So why would anybody give up a 21" CRT? Sure you need a bigger desk, > > but isn't that good for the ego too? > > Heat, space, electricity... > Truth is, I prefer to look at pictures and video on a CRT, but for > text, LCDs are much easier on the eyes. > > > Or, for email and text editing, my VT520 is just fine too. My VT520 only uses 17 watts, and its white on black. I suppose I could forgo the CRT and LCD and just use a keyboard and my impact printer :) Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On 14/02/2008, Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't googled this, but in looking around for a flatpanel LCD > monitor, what are the positive things to look for and the negative > things to avoid? Since the world is moving to flatpanels... > > Hugo > Viewing angle, and contrast-changing at different vertical angles, are two important considerations. Also, if you use a photo-management app such as digikam, then make sure that you look at a few of _your_ pictures on the monitor before buying. My current LCD, the panel in my Dell Inspiron, has the terrible property of different contrast at different vertical angles. So, for some uses (photos, video) I stand the monitor up to see the detail. For others (email, word processing) I lay the monitor almost flat so that I can tell the difference between colours. It is terrible. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On 15/02/2008, Douglas A. Tutty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So why would anybody give up a 21" CRT? Sure you need a bigger desk, > but isn't that good for the ego too? Heat, space, electricity... Truth is, I prefer to look at pictures and video on a CRT, but for text, LCDs are much easier on the eyes. > Or, for email and text editing, my VT520 is just fine too. Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 04:36:29PM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote: > On 14/02/2008, Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My current LCD, the panel in my Dell Inspiron, has the terrible > property of different contrast at different vertical angles. So, for > some uses (photos, video) I stand the monitor up to see the detail. > For others (email, word processing) I lay the monitor almost flat so > that I can tell the difference between colours. It is terrible. > So why would anybody give up a 21" CRT? Sure you need a bigger desk, but isn't that good for the ego too? Or, for email and text editing, my VT520 is just fine too. LCD: little crappy devices CRT: cool retro technology :) Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:06 AM, Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't googled this, but in looking around for a flatpanel LCD > monitor, what are the positive things to look for and the negative > things to avoid? Since the world is moving to flatpanels... Now that I have more time to write, I will follow up on my previous email. My family got my grandmother an LCD for Christmas and we went with a 22" TN type for cost reasons. It is quite acceptable for the use it gets but there is a just noticable gradient in brightness from top to bottom (brighter at the bottom). This may be annoying to you, especially if you use it for hours at a time. It doesn't bother me for the short times I use my grandmothers computer, but if/when I get an LCD for myself, I will avoid TN panels, which frequently have this issue. Currently, most 22" LCDs are TNs. Cheers, Kelly Clowers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't googled this, but in looking around for a flatpanel LCD > monitor, what are the positive things to look for and the negative > things to avoid? Since the world is moving to flatpanels... > > Hugo Energy star certification or some such thing whereby you can be assured that the monitor consumes less power is one thing I would look for while buying a new monitor. raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] things to look for in a flatpanel monitor
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:06 AM, Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't googled this, but in looking around for a flatpanel LCD > monitor, what are the positive things to look for and the negative > things to avoid? Since the world is moving to flatpanels... I found this LCD buying guide on the Anandtech forums very useful: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
