Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 11:07:24PM -0400, Jonathan D. Proulx wrote: On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 06:42:39PM -0700, Jack Pryne wrote: :machine take care of itself, without ever having to worry about missing :DLL's, or corrupt registry files. That's the whole idea behind this proposed :system. Though I take your point, I encourage you to get Debian up and running so you can see for yourself what types of configuration issues there are. There is nothing even analogous to registry corruption in an Un*x like system. And through Debian's wonderful package/dependency management system you're never missing shared libraries (the analog to a DLL). Actually once you have a basic system installed (which can be tricky), managing it can be as braindead as you want. run gnome-apt two clicks to update evrything you have installed to the latest revision, run a search on available packages pick the new shiny whizbang app you want, it'll grab whatever else you need to make it work. You are missing the point, installing software and it's dependencies is one hurdle debian has cleared. But there is much more than that. There is getting your video card working, your monitor sync set right, your sound and peripherals working correctly. Things that I know can be very difficult to an average to new user of linux. I have installed debian countless times, as well as other distro's and I know for sure that debian has close to the worst hardware detection around, this does not phase me because I can manage to get things working and once they are, debian is a breeze. From your post you seem to be under the idea that there is nothing to impove with debian because of apt-get. -Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Nick Jennings
Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
:: Nick Jennings writes: From your post you seem to be under the idea that there is nothing to impove with debian because of apt-get. I'd just like to add that APT has already been ported so it works with Conectiva RPMs, and RPM-based distributions will soon be using it. Details of how well it works on one or other system aside, this means that, although Debian has the merit of developing APT for the first time, APT will not necessarily be an advantage of Debian over others anymore. And hardware detection and configuration is being worked on by others for quite some time now... (But of course, Debian still has the greatest quality-assurance process around!) (Just my 2 centavos...) J. --
Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 08:01:07PM -0700, Nick Jennings wrote: : You are missing the point, installing software and it's dependencies is : one hurdle debian has cleared. But there is much more than that. There : is getting your video card working, your monitor sync set right, your : sound and peripherals working correctly. No argument here, most of this pain is install time rather than maintenance related. If the install time detection were better, simpler, whatever that would also cover maintenence (like a new video card). : Things that I know can be very difficult to an average to new user : of linux. I have installed debian : countless times, as well as other distro's and I know for sure that : debian has close to the worst hardware detection around, this does not : phase me because I can manage to get things working and once they are, : debian is a breeze. That's my point, once it's working you don't have to worry about where to get the right libraries, or bit rot in some mammoth machine managed registry file. : From your post you seem to be under the idea that there is nothing : to impove with debian because of apt-get. I must have misrepresented myself, apt-get rocks for software management, but there are other things and there's always room for improvement. -Jon
Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
also sprach Joost Kooij (on Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:42:19PM +0200): Debian/GNU Bob Now you can put the stark fist of removal at work for YOU! hehe, and when you mistype your password three times, it'll prompt you to change it. believe it or not, Micro$oft Bob did that. martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^.*|tr * mailto:; [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- fermentation fault. coors dumped.
Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
i just wanted to add my two pfennige. see, the reason that debian rocks is that it does not impose configuration tools on you like suse and redhat. it does provide a very cool package system, but everything is under the control of the user and vi. that's the beauty. now looking at how i frequently already disagree with the formatting of config files contained in the packages, or the default settings for an application, i couldn't possibly imagine running such a distributed system. don't get me wrong, i am all up for slamming Micro$oft's how to add .Net to your old software to keep it cutting edge braindeadness, but the idea of having other users influence my system is disturbing. granted, the debian-cracks wouldn't use it, at least not for configuration, but that means that such a database contains configs by novices, which, unless very carefully monitored by experts, could result in an inferno. i am just thinking... instead, pre-installed debian is a good idea, because once running, apt-get is too easy to use. in addition, have workshops! i, for one, am about to organize a monthly linux meet at a local computer cluster, encouraging people in papers and by word of mouth to come and play around. it'll be debian, of course, and i'll have a couple of cool dudes along to help me out, but i think something like this to get people excited, and then the offer to pre-install debian for them (even though that's the best exercise) for something low like $20 maybe (or not - depending on how i can swing it), would be the best, don't you think? i will make some computers available at the cluster for debian test-installations - for people to come and try it themselves. it's still in preparation, but it'll go live in july or august... martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^.*|tr * mailto:; [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- as i was going up the stair i met a man who wasn't there. he wasn't there again today. i wish, i wish he'd stay away. --hughes mearns
Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
From: MaD dUCK [EMAIL PROTECTED] now looking at how i frequently already disagree with the formatting of config files contained in the packages, or the default settings for an application, i couldn't possibly imagine running such a distributed system. The system I propose would greatly benefit by users such as you, who provide a shining example of a finely tuned system, without allowing the community to alter your machine. Yours would be a 'reference-only' participant, a beacon of sorts. A leader! Less exeprienced users, those who would rather let the community maintain their system for them, would take a more passive role, referring to you, (in addition to each other,) for information as to how to best configure their system. Believe me, the vast majority of users would rather just let the machine take care of itself, without ever having to worry about missing DLL's, or corrupt registry files. That's the whole idea behind this proposed system. but that means that such a database contains configs by novices, which, unless very carefully monitored by experts, could result in an inferno. This would not happen if a suitable base of reference were built up (composed of experienced users like you) before the initial launch to the public. To rephrase, power users like you would be the shepards. Passive users would be the flock. But being a shepard would not involve any more work than you are already doing; it would just entail keeping your system in good working order. BTW, thanks everyone for all the feedback I'm getting on this idea; it really helps to flesh out the details and clarify the vision. Keep your ideas coming, whether your feedback is positive or negative. I'd like to address both. Thanks again, Jack _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [users] Re: An *idea* that *might* put Debian on top (?)
On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 06:42:39PM -0700, Jack Pryne wrote: :machine take care of itself, without ever having to worry about missing :DLL's, or corrupt registry files. That's the whole idea behind this proposed :system. Though I take your point, I encourage you to get Debian up and running so you can see for yourself what types of configuration issues there are. There is nothing even analogous to registry corruption in an Un*x like system. And through Debian's wonderful package/dependency management system you're never missing shared libraries (the analog to a DLL). Actually once you have a basic system installed (which can be tricky), managing it can be as braindead as you want. run gnome-apt two clicks to update evrything you have installed to the latest revision, run a search on available packages pick the new shiny whizbang app you want, it'll grab whatever else you need to make it work. -Jon
