Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 02:04:20AM +1100, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > Hi Boyd, > > Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > >I do believe a Free Software system should be as easy to use as MS > >Windows for "Joe Sixpack" and "Jane Boxwine". This might already > >be the case; it is really hard for me to judge. I've been > >programming since I was 5 and a fan of UNIX and UNIX-like systems > >since I first used one. > > I agree it is hard to judge how "Joe Sixpack" or "Jane Boxwine" > consider to be "as easy as M$". ;-) > I find that for people who don't know much about computers, GNU/Linux is easier than Windows. Take my parents, for example. They have Windows XP Home and Ubuntu 10.04 dual-booting on their P4 2.4GHz 512MB machine. My mother only uses Windows for some business-related software. My father won't use Windows anymore because it's too slow and is constantly bombarding him with pop-ups that he doesn't understand (mostly stuff related to the firewall, I think). My parents would never consider installing software by themselves, on either system. They sometimes need to be reminded how to attach a picture to an email message. My siblings and their spouses use Debian and Ubuntu. They are slightly more computer-savy than my parents, but don't do any software installation themselves. The only complaints I ever get from them are a periodic "flash isn't working on such-and-such website". They all prefer to use GNU/Linux and have access to my free help (which they almost never need), than to use Windows and be on their own. -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110304144944.gb7...@aurora.owens.net
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
Hi, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: ...and evidently I like talking about myself. :( All good, nice to hear your story, my PC life began in the TRS-80 days at a local Tandy store in Melbourne AU. I was young then, but not as young as you. Not going into my story right now, but I'm 44 now fwiw and have been using Debian for quite a while now, but it's horses for courses with me . Thanks again for sharing, you've often got some great posts and it's interesting to know you a little better. My 13 y.o. has started out very young though and he has far more resources available to him than I ever had which I was that young. Oh well, surely that's to be expected now though. Cheers -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan Broadband Solutions now including VoIP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d701d28.5010...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I'm nearing 31, but I mostly still act 25. :P My first exposure to > UNIX-like > systems wasn't until my early teens, but I didn't really get to dive in > until > I was 18. > > It still took me quite a while to move to Linux. My first adventure into > Slackware was fun, but I eventually broke things beyond what I could fix > and > re-installed NT Workstation. We all experiment in college don't we... > > Toward the end of 2004, I was emboldened by finding a group of friends that > had more Linux experience and did a Gentoo install (stage1!) on my already > aging PII-450. I never looked back though. I've not licensed MS Windows > since then, even for my laptop. I got a little disenchanted with Gentoo at > some point; I decided I was spending too much time administrating my system > and not enough time using it. (Possibly not Gentoo's fault, but it felt > like > a lot of that time was fighting with emerge / paludis.) I started Debian > with > Etch. > > My laptop has had a number of installs on it. I remember an adventure into > Fedora before it had a two-digit version. I ran openSUSE to some joy for a > little over a year. Ubuntu is what it shipped with. I still keep coming > back > to Debian, partially for consistency. What advantages the others have just > never made up for the lack of familiarity. > > Ubuntu is definitely a close second; anything without the interactive > resolver > from aptitude is a lesser OS. However, I prefer the "It's done when it's > done" attitude around Debian releases, rather than the time-based releases > of > Ubuntu. I've familiarized myself enough with APT to be able to get new > software if stable doesn't meant my needs, but that's not often required > except for -dev packages for my own projects. > > ...and evidently I like talking about myself. :( > > Jebus! This sounds like my life. Played with Slackware since ver4 or so... screwed with many versions of Fedora but always stood clear of Debain, even Ubuntu till now my laptop is running Debian 6 and honestly, I rather like it and my friends will tell you I am a staunch hater of Binary Distro's for the last 5 years now, all I've run is FreeBSD in mixed server/desktop environments ... currently I have a Gentoo box as my primary file/web/dns server, a FreeBSD7.2 box that serves up my music and some other minor stuff and Deb6 on my laptop. -- Did you know... If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages, but what's worse is when you play it forward ...it installs Windows 2000 -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On 2011-03-02 09:04:20 Andrew McGlashan wrote: >Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: >> I do believe a Free Software system should be as easy to use as MS Windows >> for "Joe Sixpack" and "Jane Boxwine". This might already be the case; it >> is really hard for me to judge. I've been programming since I was 5 and >> a fan of UNIX and UNIX-like systems since I first used one. > >Out of interest, how old are you now then? I'm nearing 31, but I mostly still act 25. :P My first exposure to UNIX-like systems wasn't until my early teens, but I didn't really get to dive in until I was 18. It still took me quite a while to move to Linux. My first adventure into Slackware was fun, but I eventually broke things beyond what I could fix and re-installed NT Workstation. We all experiment in college don't we... Toward the end of 2004, I was emboldened by finding a group of friends that had more Linux experience and did a Gentoo install (stage1!) on my already aging PII-450. I never looked back though. I've not licensed MS Windows since then, even for my laptop. I got a little disenchanted with Gentoo at some point; I decided I was spending too much time administrating my system and not enough time using it. (Possibly not Gentoo's fault, but it felt like a lot of that time was fighting with emerge / paludis.) I started Debian with Etch. My laptop has had a number of installs on it. I remember an adventure into Fedora before it had a two-digit version. I ran openSUSE to some joy for a little over a year. Ubuntu is what it shipped with. I still keep coming back to Debian, partially for consistency. What advantages the others have just never made up for the lack of familiarity. Ubuntu is definitely a close second; anything without the interactive resolver from aptitude is a lesser OS. However, I prefer the "It's done when it's done" attitude around Debian releases, rather than the time-based releases of Ubuntu. I've familiarized myself enough with APT to be able to get new software if stable doesn't meant my needs, but that's not often required except for -dev packages for my own projects. ...and evidently I like talking about myself. :( -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
Hi Boyd, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: I do believe a Free Software system should be as easy to use as MS Windows for "Joe Sixpack" and "Jane Boxwine". This might already be the case; it is really hard for me to judge. I've been programming since I was 5 and a fan of UNIX and UNIX-like systems since I first used one. Out of interest, how old are you now then? I agree it is hard to judge how "Joe Sixpack" or "Jane Boxwine" consider to be "as easy as M$". ;-) -- Kind Regards AndrewM Andrew McGlashan Broadband Solutions now including VoIP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d6e5c74.5030...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 13:53 +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: > On Ma, 01 mar 11, 05:15:36, John A. Sullivan III wrote: > > > > There are examples besides OpenOffice. For example, we are eagerly > > awaiting Iceweasel/Firefox 3.6 because the HTML5 support will finally > > allow multiple attachments at once in Zimbra Web Client (if I understand > > it correctly). PDF editing is a nightmare in Linux but we do want to > > stay abreast on the very promising pdf import in OO, well, I guess that > > is OO. There are also library issues. In our environment, networked > > sound was essential and we needed newer pulseaudio libraries. webDAV, > > calDAV, and cardDAV support was necessary for Zimbra so we needed newer > > versions of Evolution and KDEPIM. Ah, yes, knew there was more about > > PDF - even PDF readers in Linux are a problem for very complicated > > documents so we needed newer versions of acroread. I think that's about > > all we found - John > > Are these issues still valid for squeeze? Do you expect some or even all > to go away with the release of wheezy? > > I don't have experience as a sysadmin, but considering the size of your > shop, did you consider investing resources in helping Debian with > packaging newer versions of software (wherever this is possible/makes > sense), so that you don't have this issue for the next release? > > Regards, > Andrei We're actually still a very small shop hoping to grow up quickly into a big one :) We have not become very involved with Debian yet other than trying to help out on the mail list. We have little experience with packaging but have done some and asked where to share our work but have not pursued it aggressively. Most of our support (both financial and temporal) has been upstream which is really where the problems are such as sponsoring the caldav and carddav implementation and integration in KDEPIM (although the KDE3 successor project, Trinity - http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net, put far more into it than we paid for) and heavily testing and troubleshooting the Evolution implementation. Right now, it's all hands and dollars to the pump to get the business off the ground but we do help that will generate human and financial resources to support Debian and the upstream projects. Thanks for the suggestion - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1299070024.27156.9.ca...@denise.theartistscloset.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Ma, 01 mar 11, 05:15:36, John A. Sullivan III wrote: > > There are examples besides OpenOffice. For example, we are eagerly > awaiting Iceweasel/Firefox 3.6 because the HTML5 support will finally > allow multiple attachments at once in Zimbra Web Client (if I understand > it correctly). PDF editing is a nightmare in Linux but we do want to > stay abreast on the very promising pdf import in OO, well, I guess that > is OO. There are also library issues. In our environment, networked > sound was essential and we needed newer pulseaudio libraries. webDAV, > calDAV, and cardDAV support was necessary for Zimbra so we needed newer > versions of Evolution and KDEPIM. Ah, yes, knew there was more about > PDF - even PDF readers in Linux are a problem for very complicated > documents so we needed newer versions of acroread. I think that's about > all we found - John Are these issues still valid for squeeze? Do you expect some or even all to go away with the release of wheezy? I don't have experience as a sysadmin, but considering the size of your shop, did you consider investing resources in helping Debian with packaging newer versions of software (wherever this is possible/makes sense), so that you don't have this issue for the next release? Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 10:56:14AM EST, Jason Hsu wrote: [..] > Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu.. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1604 cj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110301190408.GE4119@pavo.local
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On 2011-03-01 13:28:43 teddi...@tmo.blackberry.net wrote: >On an alternate point, I don't believe in ubuntu's bug number 1 mentality. > >I don't believe all windows users should be converted, if they are to lazy >to learn basic administration leave them on windows, don't dilute the linux >gene pool. Bug 1 isn't about converting *all* MS Windows users. It is about reducing the MS Windows marketshare to an acceptable level. In particular, making sure that Free Software is adequately represented in the market so that when I go to buy new gear I can actually find something acceptable in my local area. Currently, if I want a new desktop with Free Software pre-installed, I must seek out the Internet. (Or buy a recycled one from the local Free Geek; none of which meet my minimum specifications.) I do believe a Free Software system should be as easy to use as MS Windows for "Joe Sixpack" and "Jane Boxwine". This might already be the case; it is really hard for me to judge. I've been programming since I was 5 and a fan of UNIX and UNIX-like systems since I first used one. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mar 1, 2011 2:29 PM, wrote: > > Jason Hsu said: > > Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu, so I don't know how you can pan Ubuntu but praise Mint. No distro can be good at everything, but there's no denying the impact of Ubuntu. It has moved the Overton Window in the Windows-vs.-Linux shift. > > > > Technically, Linux Mint has variants based off BOTH Ubuntu and Debian, it's user choice. > > Plus I use Backtrack on my laptops, it is Ubuntu Based. Backtracks unique spin makes it worth using on a laptop, but Ubuntu's "Uniqueness" annoys the living crap out of me... One of the major gripes I have with Backtrack, > > I've also read that backtrack is moving to KDE4 in the BackTrack 5 release they are working on... This too annoys me. > I like backtrack too. I have a vm of a full install of it on every server box I have. However, I thinkthis is the first time I've ever heard someone recommend running it as a main desktop. That is just not what it was designed for. It's mainly designed for penntests and maybe for forensics (though there are better distros for forensics imo). You might want to read up on offensive-security or backtracklinux (IIRC) before considering using it as a desktop. They make some major modifications to many network packages and I think the kernel too in order to make as many features of some tools work out of the box. I think mysql comes with some default accounts for some programs to use it as well. Hence I'd think that you'd want to go through a pretty big investment in time if you wanted to get backtrack to work for a basic desktop. And this definitely wouldn't be on my list of possibilities for a corporate desktop linux.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
Jason Hsu said: Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu, so I don't know how you can pan Ubuntu but praise Mint. No distro can be good at everything, but there's no denying the impact of Ubuntu. It has moved the Overton Window in the Windows-vs.-Linux shift. Technically, Linux Mint has variants based off BOTH Ubuntu and Debian, it's user choice. Plus I use Backtrack on my laptops, it is Ubuntu Based. Backtracks unique spin makes it worth using on a laptop, but Ubuntu's "Uniqueness" annoys the living crap out of me... One of the major gripes I have with Backtrack, I've also read that backtrack is moving to KDE4 in the BackTrack 5 release they are working on... This too annoys me. My point being just because on likes or dislikes a given distro does not mean they like or dislike everything that distor's developers do.. On an alternate point, I don't believe in ubuntu's bug number 1 mentality. I don't believe all windows users should be converted, if they are to lazy to learn basic administration leave them on windows, don't dilute the linux gene pool. TeddyB
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 5:46 AM, wrote: > The problem with Ubuntu is it's the half-baked answer to a question that > nobody was > asking in the first place... Given its success, it must be fulfilling a need/demand! > So they come up with the system of releasing LTS's about every two years, and > then > leaving them to security updates, (sound familiar anyone?) They're just imitating RHEL (without back-porting security patches and making a mess of the version numbering) because that's what corporate environments have now come to expect. > And then they will release a derivative of Debian Testing as Stable every six > months, > but being so overly concerned with release dates and sticking to the "release > date" > they release the OS buggy and half-baked, but it's not Debian Testing, no > it's Stable, > cuz we say it is... Right? It's not quite that simple. Non-LTS releases have some packages from unstable. The kernel tracks upstream. And I'm not sure that they label any of their releases "stable." I think of Ubuntu as, more or less, Debian's Fedora... > The fact is any N00b would be better starting off with Mint, it's stable, > quick with media > centric desktop users needs, and the user would be learning linux the RIGHT > way, not > the we're gonna change this or that from the method every linux os uses, to > our own > special way because we're Ubuntu and we know what's best for you. ?! Until December whe the first Linux Mint Debian was released, Mint only offered re-badged and re-looked Ubuntu with a few mint-* apps! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=chqmzzh5ozfvzghkcurkqbvgwj+jotfvmy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:46:00 + teddi...@tmo.blackberry.net wrote: > > The fact is any N00b would be better starting off with Mint, it's stable, > quick with media centric desktop users needs, and the user would be learning > linux the RIGHT way, not the we're gonna change this or that from the method > every linux os uses, to our own special way because we're Ubuntu and we know > what's best for you. > Linux Mint is derived from Ubuntu, so I don't know how you can pan Ubuntu but praise Mint. No distro can be good at everything, but there's no denying the impact of Ubuntu. It has moved the Overton Window in the Windows-vs.-Linux shift. It's great that using Linux isn't as radical today as was the case 5-10 years ago. If you don't like Ubuntu, be assured that the average Ubuntu user is much more likely to use your favorite distro than the average Windows user, as the switch from Ubuntu to another distro is MUCH less radical than the switch from Windows to Linux. -- Jason Hsu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110301095614.6fcad28b.jhsu802...@jasonhsu.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
In <4d6cc452.8040...@cox.net>, Ron Johnson wrote: >That's even better than Debian Stable, which only fixes *security* bugs. Check release.d.o, again. Stable (and Oldstable) are updates with "important" bug fixes AND security updates. This is generally interpreted that RC bugs affecting stable/oldstable should be fixed. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 10:46:00AM +, teddi...@tmo.blackberry.net wrote: > > The BIG Complaint: because Debian supports So many hardware platforms > their release cycles are too slow. > Just a minor correction. The number of hardware platforms supported has a minor impact on the length of Debian's release cycle. If you look back, Debian releases have been widely seperated even when it was just x86 only. The much larger reason seems to be the number of packages and the relatively few Debian developers who work on Debian as their full time job. Pat -- Patrick Ouellette p...@flying-gecko.net ne4po (at) arrl (dot) net Amateur Radio: NE4PO What kind of change have you been in the world today? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110301123226.ga16...@flying-gecko.net
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
In <1826992189-1298976361-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-511436955- @bda023.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>, teddi...@tmo.blackberry.net wrote: >The problem with Ubuntu is [...] You clearly have issues with Ubuntu and are willing to abuse facts to make them look bad. LTS releases are every 18 months, which is faster than the majority of Debian releases. They are also supported longer after release (at least on the sever) than Debian stable. Ubuntu releases are derived from unstable, not testing. Their release are stable in the sense of "unchanging"; they don't wait for the RC bug count to get to 0, so on release day things can be quite... "half-baked"... yes, but they usually address issues quickly using the -updates mechanism which is like a "rolling" point release. I prefer Debian over Ubuntu, but I think that Ubuntu does good things for Free Software in general. I've not tried Mint, but I'm not interested in using anything that is less free than Debian main, and many "desktop-oriented" and "multimedia-centric" distributions in the past (including Ubuntu) have not paid quite as much attention to DFSG-freeness as I would like. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
In <1298971940.24313.59.ca...@denise.theartistscloset.com>, John A. Sullivan
III wrote:
>On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote:
>> UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support
>> and it is also possible to buy support from canonical.
>
>That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We
>assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the
>latest versions and new applications would be added.
That's not support. That's development.
>If I recall
>correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce
>major applications updates or new applications.
Yes, just like the support in a Debian stable. Important bugs are fixed,
otherwise the software is unchanging ("stable") to prevent hidden
incompatibilities from causing problems to you of other users.
You can't introduce new upstream versions and not expect things to break.
Even well-tested security patches have introduced regressions before. Keeping
the software unchanging when possible is the first step toward preventing
breakage.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
In , Eero Volotinen wrote: >UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support >and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. An Ubuntu LTS gets 3 years of support on desktops. Etch had longer support. Lenny will have one week less. You can buy Debian support from a number of companies. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
The problem with Ubuntu is it's the half-baked answer to a question that nobody was asking in the first place... The BIG Complaint: because Debian supports So many hardware platforms their release cycles are too slow. So they come up with the system of releasing LTS's about every two years, and then leaving them to security updates, (sound familiar anyone?) And then they will release a derivative of Debian Testing as Stable every six months, but being so overly concerned with release dates and sticking to the "release date" they release the OS buggy and half-baked, but it's not Debian Testing, no it's Stable, cuz we say it is... Right? Then finding their purpose completely null and void they go to changing random things for no real reason because "we're not just a half-baked re-release of Debian, were different" but really different in bad ways... Finally what bothers me so much about Ubuntu is they try so hard to compete for the non-technical user crowed by using classic psudo-marketing tactics, Like we'll get celebrities to tell everybody why Ubuntu is the best... Like WTF does Lars from Metallica know about Linux to go around in places like Wired magazine saying Ubuntu is the bestest most best OS in the whole wide world... Sickens me.. The fact is any N00b would be better starting off with Mint, it's stable, quick with media centric desktop users needs, and the user would be learning linux the RIGHT way, not the we're gonna change this or that from the method every linux os uses, to our own special way because we're Ubuntu and we know what's best for you. Sounds a bit like Microsoft to me... This rant brought to you by; TeddyB
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:57 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > 2011/3/1 John A. Sullivan III : > > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:34 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > >> 2011/3/1 John A. Sullivan III : > >> > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > >> > > >> >> UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support > >> >> and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. > >> > > >> > That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We > >> > assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the > >> > latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall > >> > correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce > >> > major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I > >> > am wrong - John > >> > >> LTS = long term support, not latest software. > > > > Yes, exactly, so it develops the same problem as RHEL as a desktop where > > the applications can grow quite old for desktop usage. As server may > > not mind a two year old version of OpenOffice or Firefox but a desktop > > probably does - John > > Well, do you want stable and secure desktop or running on bleeding edge? > > Are you really talking about enterprise environment with over 1000+ > desktops installed? > How about maintenance on bleeding edge software? It can be really pain in the > .. > > -- > Eero A balance. Fedora is too bleeding edge for an enterprise desktop, RHEL too laggard thought outstanding for servers. That's where Debian, with its blend of backports and selected items from testing via preferences, strikes that balance very well for us. There are examples besides OpenOffice. For example, we are eagerly awaiting Iceweasel/Firefox 3.6 because the HTML5 support will finally allow multiple attachments at once in Zimbra Web Client (if I understand it correctly). PDF editing is a nightmare in Linux but we do want to stay abreast on the very promising pdf import in OO, well, I guess that is OO. There are also library issues. In our environment, networked sound was essential and we needed newer pulseaudio libraries. webDAV, calDAV, and cardDAV support was necessary for Zimbra so we needed newer versions of Evolution and KDEPIM. Ah, yes, knew there was more about PDF - even PDF readers in Linux are a problem for very complicated documents so we needed newer versions of acroread. I think that's about all we found - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1298974536.24313.71.ca...@denise.theartistscloset.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On 03/01/2011 03:32 AM, John A. Sullivan III wrote: On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I am wrong - John That's even better than Debian Stable, which only fixes *security* bugs. -- I prefer banana-flavored energy bars made from tofu. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d6cc452.8040...@cox.net
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
2011/3/1 John A. Sullivan III : > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:34 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: >> 2011/3/1 John A. Sullivan III : >> > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: >> > >> >> UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support >> >> and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. >> > >> > That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We >> > assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the >> > latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall >> > correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce >> > major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I >> > am wrong - John >> >> LTS = long term support, not latest software. > > Yes, exactly, so it develops the same problem as RHEL as a desktop where > the applications can grow quite old for desktop usage. As server may > not mind a two year old version of OpenOffice or Firefox but a desktop > probably does - John Well, do you want stable and secure desktop or running on bleeding edge? Are you really talking about enterprise environment with over 1000+ desktops installed? How about maintenance on bleeding edge software? It can be really pain in the .. -- Eero -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=fxdth4xpxdnh7a_31vy9xby0ux1f_qx88g...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:34 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > 2011/3/1 John A. Sullivan III : > > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > > > >> UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support > >> and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. > > > > That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We > > assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the > > latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall > > correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce > > major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I > > am wrong - John > > LTS = long term support, not latest software. Yes, exactly, so it develops the same problem as RHEL as a desktop where the applications can grow quite old for desktop usage. As server may not mind a two year old version of OpenOffice or Firefox but a desktop probably does - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1298973231.24313.61.ca...@denise.theartistscloset.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 11:32, John A. Sullivan III wrote: > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We > assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the > latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall > correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce > major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I > am wrong - John > > Why would you assume that? Stable distros, like Debian and CentOS, don't update to the latest featureset either. But I am genuinely curious, disregarding the whole KDE mess: Other than Open Office which distro-supplied packages are used in enterprise environments where the latest and greatest is necessary? What features or applications do you feel are missing in the older versions? To answer my own question: annotations in Evince are a case. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikd1emrpd14wovevjzadxpwfflbkt3jjso7x...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
2011/3/1 John A. Sullivan III : > On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > >> UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support >> and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. > > That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We > assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the > latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall > correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce > major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I > am wrong - John LTS = long term support, not latest software. -- Eero -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikvqghybbxgnttpflwsmkqje9scsbhhqmu84...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 11:23 +0200, Eero Volotinen wrote: > UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support > and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. That's what we first thought but it may not be what you expect. We assumed that LTS meant that applications would be refreshed to the latest versions and new applications would be added. If I recall correctly, that is not true. LTS will patch bugs but will not introduce major applications updates or new applications. Please correct me if I am wrong - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1298971940.24313.59.ca...@denise.theartistscloset.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
2011/3/1 : >> >> >> >> Original Message >>From: b...@iguanasuicide.net >>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org >>Subject: Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop >>Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:48:36 -0600 >> >>>On Monday 28 February 2011 13:47:23 Jason Hsu wrote: >>>> For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate >>from >>>> Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your >>>> preference? >>> >>>The only time I've been involved in such a project it was from a >>hetrogenous >>>AIX/HP-UX/NCR(legacy) environment to a hetrogenous >>AIX/HP-UX/NCR(legacy)/SLES >>>environment. >>> >>>I would have recommended Debian instead, but I wasn't consulted. >>SLES allows >>>them to mostly operate in the same manner, as they were previously, >>though. A >>>shift to Debian would have required them to take a more active role >>in OS >>>issue diagnosis and remediation, but they have sufficient technical >>staff to >>>do so. >>>-- >>>Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. >>>b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) >>>ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' >>>http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/ >>> > Another consideration. Many enterprise companies are orgainzed such > that the IT (or equivalent) area reports in to the CFO who is a > businessman first and a technologist second. Such individuals often > come from IBM-like backgrounds with installation fees, maintenance > agreements and such. For these people distributions like RHE "feel > comfortable". UBuntu lts is now very attractive to desktops, because of long support and it is also possible to buy support from canonical. -- Eero -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=qtcP=PTC1pHAd9ZFPEZ1GJeHhc-=8_o8bu...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
> > > > Original Message >From: b...@iguanasuicide.net >To: debian-user@lists.debian.org >Subject: Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop >Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:48:36 -0600 > >>On Monday 28 February 2011 13:47:23 Jason Hsu wrote: >>> For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate >from >>> Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your >>> preference? >> >>The only time I've been involved in such a project it was from a >hetrogenous >>AIX/HP-UX/NCR(legacy) environment to a hetrogenous >AIX/HP-UX/NCR(legacy)/SLES >>environment. >> >>I would have recommended Debian instead, but I wasn't consulted. >SLES allows >>them to mostly operate in the same manner, as they were previously, >though. A >>shift to Debian would have required them to take a more active role >in OS >>issue diagnosis and remediation, but they have sufficient technical >staff to >>do so. >>-- >>Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. >>b...@iguanasuicide.net((_/)o o(\_)) >>ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' >>http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/ >> Another consideration. Many enterprise companies are orgainzed such that the IT (or equivalent) area reports in to the CFO who is a businessman first and a technologist second. Such individuals often come from IBM-like backgrounds with installation fees, maintenance agreements and such. For these people distributions like RHE "feel comfortable". Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/380-2201132111351...@netptc.net
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
> Ps - as much as I dislike redhat, sles takes the cake for the worst > corporate *nix imo. What don't you like about SLES? -- Petrus Validus petrus.vali...@gmail.com If there isn't a way, I make one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110228232032.GA19643@Neuron.8EEWS
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 23:27, shawn wilson wrote: > So, even though I think I smell dog shit on the bottom of my shoes every > time I type rpm or yum, I will still recommend them for corporate use just > because I know support will be there if I'm not. > What?!? yum is great. What don't you like about yum? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=kcRTe0P_RkeT_cN1qaYK=zd3trsyxze+76...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 22:42, John A. Sullivan III wrote: > I've been following this with interest as we are about to deploy what we > hope will be very many enterprise desktops. We had originally planned > on Ubuntu until we realized their understanding of long term support was > very different from our understanding. > Ubuntu? I use Ubuntu when I install for home users, but I wouldn't recommend it for enterprise. Canonical fiddles too much with stupid settings every release. Things that are supposed to be XYZ because they always have been, aren't. It's arbitrary and maddening. Even VIM they manage to screw up. > We are very big RedHat fans as they really seem to walk the walk when it > comes to open source and so considered both CentOS/RHEL and Fedora. The > intentionally short support cycles for Fedora were the showstopper there > while CentOS/RHEL tend to lag too far behind for a desktop as opposed to > a server distribution. > Yes, Fedora is too fast and CentOS is too slow. I recommend CentOS with the latest Open Office (or LibreOffice) as that is the only really critical software that one does not want lagging behind (and KDE < 4.4). > That is ultimately what led us to Debian. It has been our first major > experience with Debian and we have been quite pleased with it as the > best balance for a desktop OS thus far when we combine stable, > backports, and occasional bits from testing with a well designed > preferences file. Very, very interested in other thoughts - John > Do you find enterprise applications available for Debian, such as LabView? What apps are you using? Are you aliening RPMs from other distros, or building from source? Please detail! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTinr+zhGAr-_=JX=laokfvqvhz3e8qznbre...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On 02/28/2011 12:47 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise > desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are > Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. > > What features/characteristics are needed for an enterprise desktop computer > that aren't needed for a home desktop computer? > > Are there companies or organizations that use Linux Mint? Linux Mint is the > distro I recommend to Windows users. Linux Mint has a Windows-like feel, and > I find it more user-friendly than Ubuntu. Since Mint is based on Ubuntu, > most of the help out there for Ubuntu also applies for Mint. > > For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate from > Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your preference? First, I hate the buzzword "enterprise". Somehow, it's supposed to convey some sort of "big iron" "rock solid" software, yet when push comes to shove, "enterprise" comes from the administrator, and the IT team, not necessarily the software. Second, just for clarity with the rest of the list, it's "Red Hat", not "RedHat"; it's "openSUSE" and "SUSE" not "OpenSuSE" or "SuSE", or any other convoluted camel case spelling. Thirdly, anything really can fit the bill for the datacenter. At my place of employment, all of our servers are RHEL, Solaris and HPUX. Our developers use virtualized desktops which were migrated from Windows to GNU/Linux. So, for those virtual desktops, we use Red Hat Enterprise Desktop 6. We tried Ubuntu and openSUSE in the past, and other GNU/Linux-based operating systems, and they usually fell short in one area or the other, or they were too much work to administer. For us, the features that are important are java support and oracle support on the servers, and remote display protocol support on the virtualized desktops, for which we use NoMachine NX. We need provisioning tools, such as RHN Satellite, Cobbler and Kickstart. We need clustering and management support and a local repository for all the server and desktop software. More importantly, we need solid stability and security. -- . o . o . o . . o o . . . o . . . o . o o o . o . o o . . o o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Feb 28, 2011 3:35 PM, "Dotan Cohen" wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 21:47, Jason Hsu wrote: > > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. > > > > What features/characteristics are needed for an enterprise desktop computer that aren't needed for a home desktop computer? > > > > Are there companies or organizations that use Linux Mint? Linux Mint is the distro I recommend to Windows users. Linux Mint has a Windows-like feel, and I find it more user-friendly than Ubuntu. Since Mint is based on Ubuntu, most of the help out there for Ubuntu also applies for Mint. > > > > For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate from Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your preference? > > > > This is easy: RHEL or it's twin CentOS. It is widely deployed on > servers, probably on par with or more than Debian in my anecdotal > dealings. It is also often found as a enterprise desktop OS, the only > one that really competes with Suse. Other than RHEL/CentOS and Suse, > you won't find anything on an enterprise desktop. I'm donning the > fireproof undies now... Gentlemen: flame me with your Debian > enterprise desktop experience please! > I can say that unless I *know* that I will be available to support the system for the full life span of the current hardware (I generally estimate at 4yr from new to trash) I recommend centos. The thing with cent is that redhat will immediately support it as long as the version isn't eol as soon as you buy maintenance for it. While ubuntu, Oracle, IBM, Novell and others might have *nix support, it is either pricey, shitty, or untested by me. Besides redhat has an office in Va, a mile from me if I ever have serious issues. I seriously doubt they take walk ins, all the same - I know where they live. :) So, even though I think I smell dog shit on the bottom of my shoes every time I type rpm or yum, I will still recommend them for corporate use just because I know support will be there if I'm not. Ps - as much as I dislike redhat, sles takes the cake for the worst corporate *nix imo.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Monday 28 February 2011 14:42:41 John A. Sullivan III wrote: > That is ultimately what led us to Debian. It has been our first major > experience with Debian and we have been quite pleased with it as the > best balance for a desktop OS thus far when we combine stable, > backports, and occasional bits from testing with a well designed > preferences file. Very, very interested in other thoughts - John I run multiple Debian systems that have stable/testing/unstable/experimental and all the add-ons volatile/backports/security/updates/proposed updates. I use a preference file that keeps me with stable+security+volatile/updates mostly and for the times when I want something out of one of the other repositories tracks upgrades so that I get security updates in a timely manner. I use unattanded-upgrades with a lightly massaged configuration, one custom one-line cronjob, logcheck plus a tiny bit of custom logcheck rules, and a good tripwire policy to keep them up-to-date and provide baseline reporting. It would take some effort, but not much, to extend this to 100 systems. At that point, a new stable release would take a lot of effort to manage. Throw in nagios and a bunch of custom rules, determine a process for managing the stable upgrade including more automation, tie all of that into a ticketing system that includes a mass of scripts to pre-analyze the reports and will reduce communication overhead (since you'll need more that 3 administrators at that point) and you can probably scale to 1000, maybe more depending on how similar the systems are. Administrators will be remote for virtually all of these systems, have a plan for accessing each system when it's primary network connectivity is down and going no-site if absolutely necessary. Beyond that point, the number of administrators gets too large, and you'll certainly start running to to too many slightly different configurations / configuration sets. Specialization and division of responsibility are key here, and SELinux or AppArmor should be added to the environment to enforce divisions of responsibility so no one team is stepping on another. Debian security is good, but your organization likely has quite a large vulnerability cross section; your own security team should be doing active penetration testing on your own systems, monitoring disclosures, and helping the Debian security team, particularly testing fixes to see if they introduce regressions and testing exploits to see if they affect (your) Debian systems. At all stages, particularly when using Debian, your administration staff needs to be encouraged to interact with the community around issues they encounter and to contribute as much as possible so that your system diverge as little as possible from the well-tested releases. Even if your business is software, it is unlikely to be providing a UNIX-like OS; whatever "IP" is produced by your administration stuff is not a competitive advantage in your market, so it is better to share and integrate it than it is to maintain it on your own. Many FLOSS projects are slightly averse to breaking someone's working setup if they know it exists and contributors will often provide backwards compatibility and/or detailed migration instructions if they know there's a need for it. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
Dotan Cohen wrote: On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 21:47, Jason Hsu wrote: Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. This is easy: RHEL or it's twin CentOS. It is widely deployed on servers, probably on par with or more than Debian in my anecdotal dealings. It is also often found as a enterprise desktop OS, the only one that really competes with Suse. Other than RHEL/CentOS and Suse, you won't find anything on an enterprise desktop. I'm donning the fireproof undies now... Gentlemen: flame me with your Debian enterprise desktop experience please! And, if you include US Government (particularly DoD), RedHat is probably the primary form of Linux that you'll find. They've pretty much established themselves in the procurement channels. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d6c0e8c.90...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Monday 28 February 2011 13:47:23 Jason Hsu wrote: > For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate from > Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your > preference? The only time I've been involved in such a project it was from a hetrogenous AIX/HP-UX/NCR(legacy) environment to a hetrogenous AIX/HP-UX/NCR(legacy)/SLES environment. I would have recommended Debian instead, but I wasn't consulted. SLES allows them to mostly operate in the same manner, as they were previously, though. A shift to Debian would have required them to take a more active role in OS issue diagnosis and remediation, but they have sufficient technical staff to do so. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Monday 28 February 2011 20:47:23 Jason Hsu wrote: > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise > desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are > Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. Maybe one of us should go and replace you whenyou go for your consulting job? Thierry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201102282148.41318.tchate...@free.fr
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mon, 2011-02-28 at 22:34 +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 21:47, Jason Hsu wrote: > > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise > > desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are > > Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. > > > > What features/characteristics are needed for an enterprise desktop computer > > that aren't needed for a home desktop computer? > > > > Are there companies or organizations that use Linux Mint? Linux Mint is > > the distro I recommend to Windows users. Linux Mint has a Windows-like > > feel, and I find it more user-friendly than Ubuntu. Since Mint is based on > > Ubuntu, most of the help out there for Ubuntu also applies for Mint. > > > > For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate from > > Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your > > preference? > > > > This is easy: RHEL or it's twin CentOS. It is widely deployed on > servers, probably on par with or more than Debian in my anecdotal > dealings. It is also often found as a enterprise desktop OS, the only > one that really competes with Suse. Other than RHEL/CentOS and Suse, > you won't find anything on an enterprise desktop. I'm donning the > fireproof undies now... Gentlemen: flame me with your Debian > enterprise desktop experience please! I've been following this with interest as we are about to deploy what we hope will be very many enterprise desktops. We had originally planned on Ubuntu until we realized their understanding of long term support was very different from our understanding. We are very big RedHat fans as they really seem to walk the walk when it comes to open source and so considered both CentOS/RHEL and Fedora. The intentionally short support cycles for Fedora were the showstopper there while CentOS/RHEL tend to lag too far behind for a desktop as opposed to a server distribution. That is ultimately what led us to Debian. It has been our first major experience with Debian and we have been quite pleased with it as the best balance for a desktop OS thus far when we combine stable, backports, and occasional bits from testing with a well designed preferences file. Very, very interested in other thoughts - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1298925761.24313.16.ca...@denise.theartistscloset.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 21:47, Jason Hsu wrote: > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise > desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are > Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. > > What features/characteristics are needed for an enterprise desktop computer > that aren't needed for a home desktop computer? > > Are there companies or organizations that use Linux Mint? Linux Mint is the > distro I recommend to Windows users. Linux Mint has a Windows-like feel, and > I find it more user-friendly than Ubuntu. Since Mint is based on Ubuntu, > most of the help out there for Ubuntu also applies for Mint. > > For those of you who have helped a company or organization migrate from > Windows to Linux or from one Linux distro to another, what is your preference? > This is easy: RHEL or it's twin CentOS. It is widely deployed on servers, probably on par with or more than Debian in my anecdotal dealings. It is also often found as a enterprise desktop OS, the only one that really competes with Suse. Other than RHEL/CentOS and Suse, you won't find anything on an enterprise desktop. I'm donning the fireproof undies now... Gentlemen: flame me with your Debian enterprise desktop experience please! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktina0sdeoiewlzat3oaid9dbuf3leb+nkrjog...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:56:07 -0500 Chris Brennan wrote: > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Jason Hsu > wrote: > > > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the > > enterprise desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise > > desktop distros are Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. > > > > http://distrowatch.com/ is probably what you want. > Well I think their stats are not the greatest. I'm sure most people know that every 15 year old kid has downloaded Ubuntu no less than about a thousand times. Same kid has no idea about the rolling upgrade process and wait's so patiently until the official release party has said, yes it's done.. All the while LOUDLY proclaiming that it can't be found by pointing a source list at the newest and lamest project. Even more the reason they are all surprised how developers actually have access to 11.04 or whatever and they wait for /. to announce where to 'find' a beta build or whatever.. distrowatch is like counting the miles of a car tire stuck in snow. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110228150921.14799d9d@t61.debian-linux
Re: Best and most popular distros for the enterprise desktop
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Jason Hsu wrote: > Are there any rankings of the most popular Linux distros for the enterprise > desktop? My guess is that the most popular enterprise desktop distros are > Ubuntu, RedHat, and SUSE. > http://distrowatch.com/ is probably what you want. -- Did you know... If you play a Windows 2000 CD backwards, you hear satanic messages, but what's worse is when you play it forward ...it installs Windows 2000 -- Alfred Perlstein on chat at freebsd.org
