Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 09:14:35PM +0200, Itay wrote: > >on physical boxes, it might be more cost effective to virtualize them. There > >are a number of options here, including > > > >* openvz > >* linux-vserver > >* kvm > >* xen > >* vmware > >* virtualbox > > qemu? That´s qemu-kvm. It´s missing decent documentation on how to set up networking and on how to use it with virsh, and you have to run the VMs as root. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101030134142.go4...@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, B. Alexander wrote: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:24:18 -0400 From: B. Alexander To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:24:36 + (UTC) Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org [snip] In any case, you should discuss bastion hosts vs. all-in-one servers. In this discussion, you could bring up the point that while you can place them on physical boxes, it might be more cost effective to virtualize them. There are a number of options here, including * openvz * linux-vserver * kvm * xen * vmware * virtualbox qemu? Itay -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.1.10.101029250.24...@gandalf.furmanet
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
lee yun.yagibdah.de> writes: > > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 08:25:03PM +, Pinguim.ribeiro wrote: > > > > I mean the popularity-contest depends on exim4 | mail-transport-agent, > > packages to be installed later and not by the debian installer. > > You would select to install exim4-daemon-heavy anyway, along with > clamav and spamassassin. The installer installs these for you, but > it´s up to you to set them up. > I'll install postfix: easy to setup and integrates clamav and spamassassin too > If you need IMAP, you´d install courier-imap (if you don´t want to use > cyrus). I haven´t tried courier-imap yet, but it seems to be pretty > much the only IMAP server that supports maildir. > I'm using dovecot: it also supports maildir > Having that said, once you have set up a minimal system capable of > providing the services you need, you could put the output of 'dpkg > --get-selections' into the guide :) > Great idea! I will! thanks once again, Lee! Fernando Ribeiro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/loom.20101022t104657-...@post.gmane.org
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On 22-10-2010 00:20, lee wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 08:25:03PM +, Pinguim.ribeiro wrote: I mean the popularity-contest depends on exim4 | mail-transport-agent, packages to be installed later and not by the debian installer. You would select to install exim4-daemon-heavy anyway, along with clamav and spamassassin. The installer installs these for you, but it´s up to you to set them up. I'll install postfix: easy to setup and integrates clamav and spamassassin too If you need IMAP, you´d install courier-imap (if you don´t want to use cyrus). I haven´t tried courier-imap yet, but it seems to be pretty much the only IMAP server that supports maildir. I'm using dovecot: it also supports maildir Having that said, once you have set up a minimal system capable of providing the services you need, you could put the output of 'dpkg --get-selections' into the guide :) Great idea! I will! thanks once again, Lee! Fernando Ribeiro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4cc0cd64.4010...@gmail.com
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 08:25:03PM +, Pinguim.ribeiro wrote: > > I mean the popularity-contest depends on exim4 | mail-transport-agent, > packages to be installed later and not by the debian installer. You would select to install exim4-daemon-heavy anyway, along with clamav and spamassassin. The installer installs these for you, but it´s up to you to set them up. If you need IMAP, you´d install courier-imap (if you don´t want to use cyrus). I haven´t tried courier-imap yet, but it seems to be pretty much the only IMAP server that supports maildir. Having that said, once you have set up a minimal system capable of providing the services you need, you could put the output of 'dpkg --get-selections' into the guide :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101021232015.gd13...@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:24:18AM -0400, B. Alexander wrote: > In any case, you should definitely have your firewall on a separate machine, > bare metal if possible. I also recommend your backup machine be on a > separate bare metal machine. That said, you can probably combine your > various web servers, etc. Hm, running three (or even more) computers for the purpose seems a little overdone. I agree that it would be better to use a bare one for a firewall, router and proxy. Backups are probably not needed in this case ... Can this be safely done with virtualization? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101021231014.gc13...@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 07:50:04PM +, Pinguim.ribeiro wrote: > lee yun.yagibdah.de> writes: > > My envision for this tutorial is a guy like me, a bit curious and very > enthusiast about Linux, but not an expert at all ;-) This guy and his > wife both have a desktop PC, a laptop, a few email accounts and lots > of files and they want to have everything in one centralized place. Under those circumstances, assuming that the email accounts are at different domains, I´d suggest to use a MUA that deals nicely with having a number of email accounts at different domains. Seamonkey, for example, might do nicely. Setting up your own mailserver to handle some email accounts at different domains and using fetchmail to retrieve the mails isn´t impossible, but I would advise against it: It doesn´t make much sense to go to such lengths, using fetchmail can be rather tricky, and you remain subject to all the restrictions and unreliabilites your email providers may impose on you. (I´ve seen mails being lost from the a providers server while fetching them with fetchmail, and I´ve had more than enough bad experiences with the incompetence of such providers --- not to mention that the limits they impose are usually unacceptable.) Setting up your own mailserver makes a lot more sense when your goal is to make yourself independent from ESPs. That involves getting your own domain(s), preferably a static IP address (or using the mailserver of some ESP you sufficiently trust as a smarthost) and the required DNS entries. This will allow you to have as many email accounts as you like, but more importantly, you can receive and, if you get a static IP, send your email directly. Before you set up your own mailserver, no matter in which way, set up your DNS. > I know, a NAS would be enought, bu did I mention I'm a curious and very > enthusiast guy about Linux ;-) ? For file storage? Yes, that might be the better way to go in your case. I don´t know how much electricity costs where you live, but using a NAS device might save on that while running a server can add quite some to the utility bill. And it (hopefully, I have never used one) is easier to administrate. But then, before spending money on a NAS device, you might as well get a used computer and put the disks into that rather than into the NAS device: because it offers more options and because you´re enthusiastic :) > My model is the previous 'Debian lenny server' site at > http://servidorlenny.wikidot.com/servidor-debian-lenny. It's in Portuguese but > you can check out the toc on the right side. Yeah, there´s some more on that site :) Unfortunately, I don´t speak Portugese. > > There´s no mentioning about setting up RAID and reasonably > > This guide is just for newbies ( like me ;-) ). The idea is to keep it very > simple. But maybe in the near future I'll write a tutorial about-it. It´s one of the basics to think about, before starting to install. You can later switch over to RAID, but it makes things a lot easier to decide about using RAID or not before installing. The decision is not so much about wheather to use it or not but about what kind of RAID: hardware, software and what kind of RAID (1? 5? ...?). You also get invovled with LVM if you want to boot from a RAID partition: The Debian installer is unable to install on software RAID when you don´t use LVM :( > > recommend not to use DHCP but --- if provided by some router --- to > > turn it off in the router and to do all network configuration in the > > LAN manually. > > That will be the next section: 'Network Configuration' with static IP address, > DNS and DHCP server, etc. Well, why would you use DHCP? Doesn´t that make the whole thing quite a lot more complicated? > > you might want to consider to use the server as a firewall and > > router. This would be a topic that could be discussed in the "before > > For the moment, I'll rely on the router/DSL/Cable modem for that. Most of them > have some sort of firewall set up. They do, but they are also very limited. They don´t support setting up transparent proxies, they can lead to problems with NAT; the traffic shaping, if they provide it at all, is very poor, they have buggy firmware, they lack good network monitoring tools ... > > There doesn´t seem to be a section planned about compiling the > > kernel. Though it´s possible to use a kernel out of the box, the > > Yes, for the moment I have no plans for a kernel compilation tutorial. Well, that´s one of the first things to do after installing a minimal system. > My hope is that this guide will make (at least) a few people to try > and became more curious about the Linux world and eager to learn more > about it. Shouldn´t the guide follow this experience and introduce them somewhat systematically and thoroughly into setting up their server? A guide that´s like "whoosh, install this and that and there you go" is precisely what can make ppl think they could do everything at once easily and won´t
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
B. Alexander gmail.com> writes: > > > Another couple of items that I came up with, to follow up to Lee's post. You might want to discuss having bastion hosts, such that each server performs a function. The most obvious (though probably out-of-scope for a home server) would be that it would be a Bad Idea to put a public anonymous ftp server on the same machine as your production database server. Now that example would be overkill for your typical home environment, though it might be valid for a small business. However, in a home environment, a parallel case might be that you wouldn't want your mythtv installation running on your backup server. In any case, you should discuss bastion hosts vs. all-in-one servers. In this discussion, you could bring up the point that while you can place them on physical boxes, it might be more cost effective to virtualize them. There are a number of options here, including * openvz* linux-vserver* kvm* xen* vmware* virtualboxAll have pros and cons. (I'm still looking for the ultimate solution.) The first two will only support Linux guests, while KVM requires a 64-bit cpu with the virtualization instructions (e.g. VT-x or it's AMD equivalent). Xen is sort of messy to install and vmware...Well, I have real issues with vmware. They only pay lip service to Linux. There is no Linux client to manage it, except for vmware server, and that is its own nightmare...VBox is an option, but really isn't scaled for server-type virtualization.Personally, most of my VMs are on openvz.In any case, you should definitely have your firewall on a separate machine, bare metal if possible. I also recommend your backup machine be on a separate bare metal machine. That said, you can probably combine your various web servers, etc.--b Hi b. You are far more ambitious than I am ;-) These are great ideas for the future! But I want to keep focused on the goals for this project: To set up a small home sever and keep things really simple. I agree with you about virtualization - it was something that crossed my mind at the beginning - but, as you said, it would be out of scope for a home server. Anyway, many thanks for all you suggestions! I'm taking notes, maybe for a future project ;-) By the way, following Lee's suggestions I wrote a "before you begin" page (http://debianserver.wikidot.com/squeeze:before-start). I hope the helps to clarify the purpose of this project. Many thanks once again for all your help, support an suggestions! Fernando Ribeiro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/loom.20101021t192203-...@post.gmane.org
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
Another couple of items that I came up with, to follow up to Lee's post. You might want to discuss having bastion hosts, such that each server performs a function. The most obvious (though probably out-of-scope for a home server) would be that it would be a Bad Idea to put a public anonymous ftp server on the same machine as your production database server. Now that example would be overkill for your typical home environment, though it might be valid for a small business. However, in a home environment, a parallel case might be that you wouldn't want your mythtv installation running on your backup server. In any case, you should discuss bastion hosts vs. all-in-one servers. In this discussion, you could bring up the point that while you can place them on physical boxes, it might be more cost effective to virtualize them. There are a number of options here, including * openvz * linux-vserver * kvm * xen * vmware * virtualbox All have pros and cons. (I'm still looking for the ultimate solution.) The first two will only support Linux guests, while KVM requires a 64-bit cpu with the virtualization instructions (e.g. VT-x or it's AMD equivalent). Xen is sort of messy to install and vmware...Well, I have real issues with vmware. They only pay lip service to Linux. There is no Linux client to manage it, except for vmware server, and that is its own nightmare...VBox is an option, but really isn't scaled for server-type virtualization. Personally, most of my VMs are on openvz. In any case, you should definitely have your firewall on a separate machine, bare metal if possible. I also recommend your backup machine be on a separate bare metal machine. That said, you can probably combine your various web servers, etc. --b On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:15 PM, lee wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 01:59:42PM +, Pinguim Ribeiro wrote: > > > > In a easy to follow way (you can copy and paste all you need) this site > will > > guide you step by step through: > > There doesn愒 seem to be more than the "before you begin" and > installation part 1 and part 2? > > There愀 no mentioning about setting up RAID and reasonably > partitioning the disks in the installation guide. I consider RAID1 as > a minimum requirement to minimally secure your data, and when setting > up servers, it愀 a minimum requirement for reliability. I悲 also > recommend not to use DHCP but --- if provided by some router --- to > turn it off in the router and to do all network configuration in the > LAN manually. > > But then, there愀 a decision to make wheather to use a(n external) > router/firewall or not, and since you愉e about setting up a server, > you might want to consider to use the server as a firewall and > router. This would be a topic that could be discussed in the "before > you begin" section so that everyone can make their own decision, > considering the advantages and disadvantages. > > On a side note: When you start with a computer and the installer CD > and some sort of internet connection that needs to be established > before it can be used (like pppoe), is that even possible? I扉e never > tried that, but I haven愒 seen a way in the installer to setup a way > to dial-in, like pppoe, to get a working internet connection. If it愀 > possible, ppl don愒 need to buy routers if they decide to set up their > server in such a way that it does the routing and firewalling. > > There doesn愒 seem to be a section planned about compiling the > kernel. Though it愀 possible to use a kernel out of the box, the > kernel the installer installs is awfully bloated ... Some other topics > that seem to be missing is setting up your nameserver and traffic > shaping. > > > One mistake that ppl starting to use Linux often seem to make is > demanding that everything they can think of somehow magically starts > to work all by itself. They have no idea about how much there is to > learn about every aspect, and they don愒 realize that they will have > to do the learning, how time consuming that will be, how much effort > it takes and how annoying it can be. Instead, they get frustrated > quickly. > > Any guide giving even the slightest suggestion that they could easily > and reasonably set up and administrate a server as complex as you > envision would mislead them. Trying to give them an idea of what they > are eventually about to get into and that they need to make one very > small step after another rather than demanding that everything has to > work right now is something I悲 tell them even before the "before you > begin" section. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101020181555.ge3...@yun.yagibdah.de > >
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
Andrei Popescu gmail.com> writes: > > On Mi, 20 oct 10, 13:59:42, Pinguim Ribeiro wrote: > > > > Your feedback will be very welcomed, so please share your > > opinion, corrections, > > questions and suggestions here or in the forum! > > What do you mean by: > > "To avoid installation of dependent software packages, answer NO to the > popularity contest participation:" > > Regards, > Andrei hi Andrei I mean the popularity-contest depends on exim4 | mail-transport-agent, packages to be installed later and not by the debian installer. I'll clarify that sentence. Thanks Fernando Ribeiro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/loom.20101020t222044-...@post.gmane.org
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
lee yun.yagibdah.de> writes: > Hi lee Thank you for your notes! My envision for this tutorial is a guy like me, a bit curious and very enthusiast about Linux, but not an expert at all ;-) This guy and his wife both have a desktop PC, a laptop, a few email accounts and lots of files and they want to have everything in one centralized place. I know, a NAS would be enought, bu did I mention I'm a curious and very enthusiast guy about Linux ;-) ? > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 01:59:42PM +, Pinguim Ribeiro wrote: > > > > In a easy to follow way (you can copy and paste all you need) this > > site will > > guide you step by step through: > > There doesn´t seem to be more than the "before you begin" and > installation part 1 and part 2? Yes, for the moment, I just set up the site and wrote the installer guide. Soon I'll continue to publish other sections. The site will always be a work in progress: I'll add more and more features over time. My model is the previous 'Debian lenny server' site at http://servidorlenny.wikidot.com/servidor-debian-lenny. It's in Portuguese but you can check out the toc on the right side. > There´s no mentioning about setting up RAID and reasonably This guide is just for newbies ( like me ;-) ). The idea is to keep it very simple. But maybe in the near future I'll write a tutorial about-it. > recommend not to use DHCP but --- if provided by some router --- to > turn it off in the router and to do all network configuration in the > LAN manually. That will be the next section: 'Network Configuration' with static IP address, DNS and DHCP server, etc. > you might want to consider to use the server as a firewall and > router. This would be a topic that could be discussed in the "before For the moment, I'll rely on the router/DSL/Cable modem for that. Most of them have some sort of firewall set up. > There doesn´t seem to be a section planned about compiling the > kernel. Though it´s possible to use a kernel out of the box, the Yes, for the moment I have no plans for a kernel compilation tutorial. > One mistake that ppl starting to use Linux often seem to make is > demanding that everything they can think of somehow magically starts > to work all by itself. They have no idea about how much there is to > learn about every aspect, and they don´t realize that they will have > to do the learning, how time consuming that will be, how much effort > it takes and how annoying it can be. Instead, they get frustrated > quickly. You are absolutely right on that point. Growing pains are inevitable. Some people gave up, some don't. But everybody can learn a lot with it. My hope is that this guide will make (at least) a few people to try and became more curious about the Linux world and eager to learn more about it. > Any guide giving even the slightest suggestion that they could easily > and reasonably set up and administrate a server as complex as you > envision would mislead them. Trying to give them an idea of what they > are eventually about to get into and that they need to make one very > small step after another rather than demanding that everything has to > work right now is something I´d tell them even before the "before you > begin" section. Again I agree with you. This guide is a step by step guide but it must be clarified at the beginning. Do you have any suggestions on how to do that section? Many thanks once again for your help and support! Best regards Fernando Ribeiro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/loom.20101020t204504-...@post.gmane.org
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 01:59:42PM +, Pinguim Ribeiro wrote: > > In a easy to follow way (you can copy and paste all you need) this site will > guide you step by step through: There doesn´t seem to be more than the "before you begin" and installation part 1 and part 2? There´s no mentioning about setting up RAID and reasonably partitioning the disks in the installation guide. I consider RAID1 as a minimum requirement to minimally secure your data, and when setting up servers, it´s a minimum requirement for reliability. I´d also recommend not to use DHCP but --- if provided by some router --- to turn it off in the router and to do all network configuration in the LAN manually. But then, there´s a decision to make wheather to use a(n external) router/firewall or not, and since you´re about setting up a server, you might want to consider to use the server as a firewall and router. This would be a topic that could be discussed in the "before you begin" section so that everyone can make their own decision, considering the advantages and disadvantages. On a side note: When you start with a computer and the installer CD and some sort of internet connection that needs to be established before it can be used (like pppoe), is that even possible? I´ve never tried that, but I haven´t seen a way in the installer to setup a way to dial-in, like pppoe, to get a working internet connection. If it´s possible, ppl don´t need to buy routers if they decide to set up their server in such a way that it does the routing and firewalling. There doesn´t seem to be a section planned about compiling the kernel. Though it´s possible to use a kernel out of the box, the kernel the installer installs is awfully bloated ... Some other topics that seem to be missing is setting up your nameserver and traffic shaping. One mistake that ppl starting to use Linux often seem to make is demanding that everything they can think of somehow magically starts to work all by itself. They have no idea about how much there is to learn about every aspect, and they don´t realize that they will have to do the learning, how time consuming that will be, how much effort it takes and how annoying it can be. Instead, they get frustrated quickly. Any guide giving even the slightest suggestion that they could easily and reasonably set up and administrate a server as complex as you envision would mislead them. Trying to give them an idea of what they are eventually about to get into and that they need to make one very small step after another rather than demanding that everything has to work right now is something I´d tell them even before the "before you begin" section. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101020181555.ge3...@yun.yagibdah.de
Re: Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' home server - Installation guide
On Mi, 20 oct 10, 13:59:42, Pinguim Ribeiro wrote: > > Your feedback will be very welcomed, so please share your opinion, > corrections, > questions and suggestions here or in the forum! What do you mean by: "To avoid installation of dependent software packages, answer NO to the popularity contest participation:" Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
