Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. It's not all that. Ubuntu 11.10 and even GNOME 3 in Fedora look just as good (haven't seen GNOME 3 in Debian since I run Stable). Whether you like how Unity and GNOME Shell work is another thing, but they do look pretty good. It took GNOME Shell in Fedora a while to grow on me, but I'm beginning to appreciate the design more and more as time goes on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1322091350.15549.2.camel@lenovo
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
Yes, I actually think Gnome Shell is more intuitive pretty than both Mac OS X Windows 7. In fact after years of my main machine being a Mac Im now using Debian with Gnome 3 as my main machine and its a dream, (and no not a nightmare before anyone makes a sarcastic comment;) On 23/11/11 23:35, Steven Rosenberg wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. It's not all that. Ubuntu 11.10 and even GNOME 3 in Fedora look just as good (haven't seen GNOME 3 in Debian since I run Stable). Whether you like how Unity and GNOME Shell work is another thing, but they do look pretty good. It took GNOME Shell in Fedora a while to grow on me, but I'm beginning to appreciate the design more and more as time goes on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ecd854d.5020...@me.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:37:11 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Tom H wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Camaleónnoela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. Well... absolutely true about iOS. My complain was not aimed to the technology nor the hardware itself but about the company policy. Apple is the one to blame here and not its products which are usually of high quality and very well engineered. Not so true about Macintosh and OS X -- Macs are essentially BSD underneath. My PowerBook is littered with all kinds of unix tools - installed via a mix of Fink (apt for macintosh) and MacPorts (BSD Ports for mac). And then there are various Linux and Windows VMs I have running under Parallels (which could as easily be VMware or Virtual Box or probably Xen). The core can be BSD-alike powered but ask youself what can you do with a BSD-alike system that features a closed source license. Nothing but having a good time and prepare you wallet for the next thingy Apple will sold you as the next revolutionary piece of hardware out there. That's the tramp. You don't own your computer but Apple. I'm stumped to see people with a Mac going to the Apple store every time a small problem arise instead of solving the issue by themselves. Wow, so you get a oops, something went worng message and you have to send your computer to the technical service? What a business... Now, I do worry that the iOS/closed mindset is starting to intrude into the Mac space (witness the Macintosh App Store that's made it's way into the latest versions of OS X). Still keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have to migrate my laptop to Linux (personal opinion: Unix is for servers and development, for Word Processing, Slide Presentations, email, web browsing - Mac is a lot cleaner - particularly what with all the complaints about Gnome3!). I've also read bad reviewes for the new MacOS Lion system. My feeling is that Apple will discontinue sooner or later its server business (and possibly the desktop...) and will concentrate the forces into the mobile market (iPhone/Pad/Pod and notebooks) that is where they are doing money. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.11.14.14.10...@gmail.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 12:22:17 -0500, Tom H wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. Closed, yes. A brick, no. Limited and restrictive are relative notions... It's all relative... But to my eyes, Apple devices are just beautiful bricks, plenty of traps with an invisible and costly price (and I'm not speaking about $). I cannot feel confortable with a company policy that prevents the movements of the users for their products in the way Apple does. From a FOSS religious perspective, Apple products could be considered bricks but from the practical perspective of 99% of computer users who want to connect to networks, share out files, surf the web, receive and send email, play A/V files locally or through their browsers, read and edit word/spreadsheet/PDF/presentation documents, Apple, Linux, and Windows are just as suited to their needs and requirements. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=sxw52tdwvk_p3erlsr+gpbqamr1d0fdqtdmnr1h6eh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:39:07 -0500, Tom H wrote: On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 12:22:17 -0500, Tom H wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. Closed, yes. A brick, no. Limited and restrictive are relative notions... It's all relative... But to my eyes, Apple devices are just beautiful bricks, plenty of traps with an invisible and costly price (and I'm not speaking about $). I cannot feel confortable with a company policy that prevents the movements of the users for their products in the way Apple does. From a FOSS religious perspective, Apple products could be considered bricks but from the practical perspective of 99% of computer users who want to connect to networks, share out files, surf the web, receive and send email, play A/V files locally or through their browsers, read and edit word/spreadsheet/PDF/presentation documents, Apple, Linux, and Windows are just as suited to their needs and requirements. I agree and get your point, that is, I understand what you mean. And I consider myself a very open person in this regard (let's say I'm more close/inclined to what the BSD philosophy represents than GPL), I'm using MS Windows and linux at work and I'm okay recommending closed source applications when there isn't a good replacement coming from the open source world but man... Apple lives in another planet, sorry, in another galaxy. I've always said that Apple is even worse than Microsoft itself and I can understand that people is fine and love their products but that makes no change on my posititon :-) I consider Apple products as the opposite I like to see my gadgets: they are technology pieces and not mere household appliances. Of course, I'm not the target user for Apple's marketing team. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.11.14.18.11...@gmail.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Lu, 14 nov 11, 14:10:57, Camaleón wrote: That's the tramp. You don't own your computer but Apple. I'm stumped to see people with a Mac going to the Apple store every time a small problem arise instead of solving the issue by themselves. Wow, so you get a oops, something went worng message and you have to send your computer to the technical service? What a business... There is a saying in Romanian, something like: Stupid is not the one who sets a [too high] price, but the one who pays it Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On 11/14/2011 09:10 AM, Camaleón wrote: /snip/ I've also read bad reviewes for the new MacOS Lion system. My feeling is that Apple will discontinue sooner or later its server business (and possibly the desktop...) and will concentrate the forces into the mobile market (iPhone/Pad/Pod and notebooks) that is where they are doing money. Greetings, Somewhere I read the percentage of Mac use, and its comparitively high-- certainly over 10%. Practically everyone in the publishing business or doing commercial illustration seems to use a Mac. I don't think it will go away soon. --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ec183f9.9000...@optonline.net
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:11:21 -0500 doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 11/14/2011 09:10 AM, Camaleón wrote: /snip/ I've also read bad reviewes for the new MacOS Lion system. My feeling is that Apple will discontinue sooner or later its server business (and possibly the desktop...) and will concentrate the forces into the mobile market (iPhone/Pad/Pod and notebooks) that is where they are doing money. Greetings, Somewhere I read the percentage of Mac use, and its comparitively high-- certainly over 10%. Practically everyone in the publishing business or doing commercial illustration seems to use a Mac. I don't think it will go away soon. That's because all publishing, graphic design students are taught on Macs. Same strategy as Microsoft, but Mac go for a slightly older demographic. Regards, Weaver. -- In a world without walls and fences, what need have we for Windows or Gates? -Anon. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2015072855.24dc9335.wea...@riseup.net
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:11:21 -0500 doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 11/14/2011 09:10 AM, Camaleón wrote: /snip/ I've also read bad reviewes for the new MacOS Lion system. My feeling is that Apple will discontinue sooner or later its server business (and possibly the desktop...) and will concentrate the forces into the mobile market (iPhone/Pad/Pod and notebooks) that is where they are doing money. Greetings, Somewhere I read the percentage of Mac use, and its comparitively high-- certainly over 10%. Practically everyone in the publishing business or doing commercial illustration seems to use a Mac. I don't think it will go away soon. That's because all publishing, graphic design students are taught on Macs. Same strategy as Microsoft, but Mac go for a slightly older demographic. Regards, Weaver. -- In a world without walls and fences, what need have we for Windows or Gates? -Anon. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2015072817.15384aa0.wea...@riseup.net
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:16:03 -0500, Rob wrote in message 2012141603.gb18...@aurora.owens.net: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 02:47:33PM -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: I used Debian once before, years ago at the time Debian seemed difficult to configure software was way behind the times. I don't know if I'm just getting older more cranky, but I *think* I'd rather have older but stable just works. For now, I'll have the option to boot into either Debian or Ubuntu. I've used Ubuntu for years, but this Unity is killing me. Maybe Debian will be a better fit for me. If so, I'll shrink my Ubuntu partition or, maybe even delete the partition. If not, vise-versa ...Linux does give you options. Check out Debian Backports to get some newer software on Debian Stable. ..or try Debian Sid/Unstable, IME stable enough for me, and IMO, for the annoyed ex-Ubuntu-'n-Unity crowd too. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2012173040.23b19...@nb6.lan
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 17:30 +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:16:03 -0500, Rob wrote in message 2012141603.gb18...@aurora.owens.net: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 02:47:33PM -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: I used Debian once before, years ago at the time Debian seemed difficult to configure software was way behind the times. I don't know if I'm just getting older more cranky, but I *think* I'd rather have older but stable just works. For now, I'll have the option to boot into either Debian or Ubuntu. I've used Ubuntu for years, but this Unity is killing me. Maybe Debian will be a better fit for me. If so, I'll shrink my Ubuntu partition or, maybe even delete the partition. If not, vise-versa ...Linux does give you options. Check out Debian Backports to get some newer software on Debian Stable. ..or try Debian Sid/Unstable, IME stable enough for me, and IMO, for the annoyed ex-Ubuntu-'n-Unity crowd too. Ubuntu Studio doesn't use Unity and for Debian you'll experience GNOME 3 also as annoying. Unity and GNOME 3 (without using fallback mode) are sign of the times. Idiocy! Mimicry of Apple and Microsoft trash! - Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1321201977.4744.45.camel@debian
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. Closed, yes. A brick, no. Limited and restrictive are relative notions... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=sz8weyxni0jy6s5ufx4wcrfwvok4b0u1rtdyi9moai...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 12:22:17 -0500, Tom H wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. Closed, yes. A brick, no. Limited and restrictive are relative notions... It's all relative... But to my eyes, Apple devices are just beautiful bricks, plenty of traps with an invisible and costly price (and I'm not speaking about $). I cannot feel confortable with a company policy that prevents the movements of the users for their products in the way Apple does. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.11.13.18.17...@gmail.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
Tom H wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Camaleónnoela...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. Well... absolutely true about iOS. Not so true about Macintosh and OS X -- Macs are essentially BSD underneath. My PowerBook is littered with all kinds of unix tools - installed via a mix of Fink (apt for macintosh) and MacPorts (BSD Ports for mac). And then there are various Linux and Windows VMs I have running under Parallels (which could as easily be VMware or Virtual Box or probably Xen). Now, I do worry that the iOS/closed mindset is starting to intrude into the Mac space (witness the Macintosh App Store that's made it's way into the latest versions of OS X). Still keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have to migrate my laptop to Linux (personal opinion: Unix is for servers and development, for Word Processing, Slide Presentations, email, web browsing - Mac is a lot cleaner - particularly what with all the complaints about Gnome3!). Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. Infnord practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ec01c67.6000...@meetinghouse.net
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:47:33 -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: (...) *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. Apple products are so closed, so limited and so restricted that renders you hardware into a beatiful brick. *If* Unity ever makes it to phones/tablets, I'm sure I'll give it a good look-see on those devices. I must admit though, it'll take a *lot* for me to switch from iOS. While I prefer my Linux just work, I *demand* my phone just works. Anyway, back to configuring the new OS. Such demandings have a big price, don't forget it: the price of your freedom. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.11.12.10.43...@gmail.com
Re: Into: Coming over to Debian from Ubuntu
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 02:47:33PM -0500, Douglas Saylor wrote: I used Debian once before, years ago at the time Debian seemed difficult to configure software was way behind the times. I don't know if I'm just getting older more cranky, but I *think* I'd rather have older but stable just works. For now, I'll have the option to boot into either Debian or Ubuntu. I've used Ubuntu for years, but this Unity is killing me. Maybe Debian will be a better fit for me. If so, I'll shrink my Ubuntu partition or, maybe even delete the partition. If not, vise-versa ...Linux does give you options. Check out Debian Backports to get some newer software on Debian Stable. I've put my time in with Unity as my main OS ...I'm not a fan. I tried to like Unity. At this point, instead of seeming dated I'm betting Debian is going to seem more like the old Ubuntu I once loved where as Unity is just frustrating. I *wanted* to like Unity. I appreciate the *concept* of one OS for phones, tablets computers. Regretfully, Unity has only taught me to appreciate how great my iPhone works. Remember that Gnome 2 is no longer under development, so Debian will eventually be forced to use something else (most likely Gnome 3). Of course there are always other desktop environments and window managers available (KDE, LXDE, XFCE, Fluxbox, Openbox, etc.) And of course you could install any/most of those on Ubuntu if you wanted. For the same reason Canonical wants to be on multiple devices, I could see my next computer purchase being a Mac. I found Unity ...while pretty... was also cumbersome, poorly executed, non-intuitive, buggy *very* frustrating. *Meanwhile* iOS is *so* polished, so easy, so intuitive yes*very* pretty. *If* Unity ever makes it to phones/tablets, I'm sure I'll give it a good look-see on those devices. I must admit though, it'll take a *lot* for me to switch from iOS. While I prefer my Linux just work, I *demand* my phone just works. Anyway, back to configuring the new OS. I've never tried Unity myself. But just remember that Unity is still very new, and likely will improve over the next few releases. Unfortunately (in my opinion), Ubuntu tends to push new stuff into their official releases very early. I think it damages their reputation, but I guess it's their decision. Anyway, just saying that Unity might get better. -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2012141603.gb18...@aurora.owens.net
