Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-30 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:21:48 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> I downloaded a 770MB file titled
> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
> surprises :<

(...)

You will get what you expect if you grab the ISO file from Debian site. 
Other sites can be hosting different flavours/spins which have nothing to 
do with the official Debian images.

Greetings,

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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-28 Thread Lisi 
On Friday 27 January 2012 02:48:07 Scott Ferguson wrote:
> ; ADRIANE
> (a truly astonishing work).

Yes, brilliant. :-)

Lisi


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-27 Thread Andrei Popescu 
On Jo, 26 ian 12, 22:03:01, Tom H wrote:
> 
> I don't know why Debian's chosen not to include NM on its LXDE Live CD
> but it's just a "apt-get update && apt-get install network-manager"
> away for your corner case.

One of the goals of Debian Live is to use as much as possible unmodified 
packages (and integrate the modifications in the packages where needed). 
For this particular case it means that the content of the LXDE flavour 
are determined by the LXDE task (and its maintainers), not by the Live 
developers.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 27/01/12 03:19, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> I downloaded a 770MB file titled
>>> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
>>> surprises :<
>>>
>>> [SNIP]
>>
>>> there is no app for
>>> configuring a possible connection to the internet.

?

>>
>> Launcher: In addition to text and GUI install options in the boot menu,
>> the desktop flavors contain a launcher on the desktop that can be used
>> to install while running the live image.
> 
> But that's not relevant. 

You were asked not to troll.
Intentionally or otherwise.

> I am not ready to commit to installing yet. 

Theirs installing to a live CD, and installing to a hard drive. There is
a difference.

> I wish to verify that in can operate with my hardware. Specifically
> connect to internet via my USB Analog Modem (it's *NOT* a winmodem ;)

Please let me know when you can find any OS that will read your mind for
the information required to connect with a modem.

There really is no excuse for not reading the documentation - or
shortage of other venues for you to troll at.

> 
> You later define a live CD as containing "... a live environment so
> people can test hardware support before installing ..."
> 
> My very first test is:
>  Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?
> 
> This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso) evidently fails.
> And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.

There's a failure all right. It's systemic, but it's not CD based.



Cheers

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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 27/01/12 09:33, Lisi wrote:
> On Thursday 26 January 2012 22:03:01 Tom H wrote:
>> To Lisi: I don't really see the advantage of Knoppix of the Live CDs
>> of Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu in any of the four DE flavors. It's just a
>> question of habit and preference.
> 
> Yes, I like it better.  In the past it was generally accepted as the best

It was the first Live CD AFAIK.
(I don't know if Klaus reads this list - he posted on a debian list this
morning though)



> 
> But I don't want to start a flame war.

It would be a silly flame war ;-p
See reasons at:-
debian-knop...@lists.debian.org
:-D


In some instances Knoppix has advantages over the "pure" Debian Live
CDs, the main ones being:-
; kudzu hardware detection
(http://wiki.debian.org/HardwareAutodetection)
; ADRIANE
(a truly astonishing work).



> 
> Lisi
> 
> 


Cheers

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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Lisi 
On Thursday 26 January 2012 22:03:01 Tom H wrote:
> To Lisi: I don't really see the advantage of Knoppix of the Live CDs
> of Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu in any of the four DE flavors. It's just a
> question of habit and preference.

Yes, I like it better.  In the past it was generally accepted as the best, and 
I still like it better.  Yes, that may be habit and preference.  But I don't 
think any reasonable person could accuse Knoppix of not being a live CD, and 
I usually have to tell it to start the network.  This is trivial to do, and I 
like it because it means that I can set up a static connection.  And it 
really is exceptionally good at hardware recognition.

I frequently log on to the command line in Knoppix.  But I have got a lot of 
tools on the same CD.  Debian tends to require that you choose what you want 
to do and select the appropriate CD.

But I don't want to start a flame war.  "My distro is better that your distro 
so yah, boo!"  Each to his or her own.  That is what I like so much about 
Linux, or rather, FLOSS in general.  You get to choose!!  I am not required 
to fit into a one-size-fits-all mold.

Lisi


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Tom H 
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Lisi  wrote:
> On Thursday 26 January 2012 16:19:06 Richard Owlett wrote:
>> Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> > On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> >> I downloaded a 770MB file titled
>> >> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
>> >> surprises :<
>> >>
>> >> there is no app for
>> >> configuring a possible connection to the internet.
>>
>> My very first test is:
>> Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?
>>
>> This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso)
>> evidently fails.
>> And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.
>
> Knoppix, the non-pareil of Lice CDs, that I have used for some 7 years now (I
> try other things, but always come back to Knoppix) doesn't immediately
> connect to the Internet, you have to set up networking.  Doing so is a
> doddle.  I simply don't see it as a problem.  (I haven't used a Live CD
> recently, and am having optical drive problems, so I may be out of date.)

To Lisi: I don't really see the advantage of Knoppix of the Live CDs
of Debian/Fedora/Ubuntu in any of the four DE flavors. It's just a
question of habit and preference.

To the OP: I writing this email using a Debian LXDE Live CD with the
same name as yours. It connected to the internet automatically at
boot...

It doesn't have Network Manager installed so your requirement to
"connect to internet via my USB Analog Modem" doesn't have a GUI.

I don't know why Debian's chosen not to include NM on its LXDE Live CD
but it's just a "apt-get update && apt-get install network-manager"
away for your corner case.


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Andrei Popescu 
On Jo, 26 ian 12, 10:19:06, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> But that's not relevant. I am not ready to commit to installing yet.
> I wish to verify that in can operate with my hardware. Specifically
> connect to internet via my USB Analog Modem (it's *NOT* a winmodem
> ;)

> You later define a live CD as containing "... a live environment so
> people can test hardware support before installing ..."
> 
> My very first test is:
>  Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?

The canonical way to setup the internet on Debian is via 
/etc/network/interfaces. For dial-up you will need pppconfig, which is 
not included in a default install. Network Manager (included with the 
Gnome variant) might be able to do it, but I can't tell.

> This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso) evidently
> fails.
> And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.

No, connecting via ethernet is trivial and might be already setup to 
work if DHCP is available (I don't know and am too lazy to check). Other 
live CDs may include own tools to connect.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:19:06 -0600, Richard wrote in message 
<4f217cfa.1050...@pcnetinc.com>:

> Scott Ferguson wrote:
> > On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> I downloaded a 770MB file titled
> >> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
> >> surprises :<
> >>
> >> [SNIP]
> >
> >> there is no app for
> >> configuring a possible connection to the internet.
> >
> > Launcher: In addition to text and GUI install options in the boot
> > menu, the desktop flavors contain a launcher on the desktop that
> > can be used to install while running the live image.
> 
> But that's not relevant. I am not ready to commit to 
> installing yet. I wish to verify that in can operate with my 
> hardware. Specifically connect to internet via my USB Analog 
> Modem (it's *NOT* a winmodem ;)

..no? ;o)  Show us root's output of 'lsusb -vvv'. ;o)
(To become root, 'sudo su - ', or some such stunt, there 
may even be a root's password hint on your live image.)

> You later define a live CD as containing "... a live 
> environment so people can test hardware support before 
> installing ..."
> 
> My very first test is:
>   Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?
> 
> This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso) 
> evidently fails.
> And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.

..maybe.  Become root and do 'dmesg >/tmp/dhimmi ', then plug 
in your alleged non-winmodem and let it do all its beepy blinky 
things, before doing 'dmesg >/tmp/dulluh ', and then you're
ready (or not) for 'diff -u /tmp/dhimmi /tmp/dulluh |less '
to see what happened, if you don't understand your diff read, 
post the output of 'diff -u /tmp/dhimmi /tmp/dulluh >/tmp/dimwit '
by attaching the /tmp/dimwit file you created above. ;o)

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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Patrick Bartek 
> Scott Ferguson wrote:

>>  On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>  I downloaded a 770MB file titled
>>>  debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.    Got some
>>>  surprises :<
>>> 
>>>  [SNIP]
>> 
>>>  there is no app for
>>>  configuring a possible connection to the internet.

There should be.  Has been on the several LiveCDs with the LXDE desktop I've 
tested.

>>  Launcher: In addition to text and GUI install options in the boot menu,
>>  the desktop flavors contain a launcher on the desktop that can be used
>>  to install while running the live image.
> 
> But that's not relevant. I am not ready to commit to installing yet. I wish 
> to verify that in can operate with my hardware. Specifically connect to 
> internet 
> via my USB Analog Modem (it's *NOT* a winmodem ;)

Modem?  As in dial up?  That requires manually setting up the network 
connection.  With LXDE, in the menus somewhere, there's its "control panel" for 
all (or most all) configurations usually with a nice wizard to help you.

> You later define a live CD as containing "... a live environment so people 
> can test hardware support before installing ..."
> 
> My very first test is:
> Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?

Yes.  But not automatically, unless you have a wired Ethernet connection.  Any 
other configuration wireless, dial up, requires manually entering the numbers.  
Might even require installing the appropriate driver, if it's not on the LiveCD.

> This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso) evidently fails.
> And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.


Perhaps, the iso was damaged during the download or burning.  Did you checksum 
it?  Both the downloaded iso and the CD after burning?  Also, did you read the 
instructions?  Linux isn't Windows.  And doesn't work like Windows either.  
There is a learning curve.  A fairly steep one.

B


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Lisi 
On Thursday 26 January 2012 16:19:06 Richard Owlett wrote:
> Scott Ferguson wrote:
> > On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >> I downloaded a 770MB file titled
> >> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
> >> surprises :<
> >>
> >> [SNIP]
> >>
> >> there is no app for
> >> configuring a possible connection to the internet.
> >
> > Launcher: In addition to text and GUI install options in the boot menu,
> > the desktop flavors contain a launcher on the desktop that can be used
> > to install while running the live image.
>
> But that's not relevant. I am not ready to commit to
> installing yet. I wish to verify that in can operate with my
> hardware. Specifically connect to internet via my USB Analog
> Modem (it's *NOT* a winmodem ;)
>
> You later define a live CD as containing "... a live
> environment so people can test hardware support before
> installing ..."
>
> My very first test is:
>   Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?
>
> This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso)
> evidently fails.
> And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.

Knoppix, the non-pareil of Lice CDs, that I have used for some 7 years now (I 
try other things, but always come back to Knoppix) doesn't immediately 
connect to the Internet, you have to set up networking.  Doing so is a 
doddle.  I simply don't see it as a problem.  (I haven't used a Live CD 
recently, and am having optical drive problems, so I may be out of date.)

Lisi


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Richard Owlett 

Umarzuki Mochlis wrote:


>  Yes. A so-called "live CD", or more precisely, a "live system", is a
>  complete system prepared for a CD, DVD, USB key or other medium.
>  _*You*_ do not need to install anything on the hard drive. Instead
>  you boot from the CD or other medium and _*are able to start working
>  on the machine right away*_. All programs run directly from the
>  medium. "
>


sir, you probably had a bad day and mistakenly downloaded the lxde (for
its smaller size)



You are ~50% correct ;)
I wasn't having a bad day until after spending two hours at 
local library using their "high speed" connection (high 
relative to what I have at home via 56k modem).


I indeed chose lxde over gnome primarily on size. 
Secondarily I'd seen it on Ubuntu 10.10 and thought it ugly.


In any case, lxde itself is not the problem. both salix and 
porteus offer lxde *AND* internet connectivity in a smaller 
package.







as everyone suggested, use the gnome version instead which can be get
from http://live.debian.net/archive/images/6.0.3/i386/iso-hybrid/

it the "debian-live-6.0.3-i386-gnome-desktop.iso
"
file and do make sure the MD5SUM is correct before burning it to a DVD
(it's a 1.1 GB file)

--
Regards,

Umarzuki Mochlis
http://debmal.my



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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-26 Thread Richard Owlett 

Scott Ferguson wrote:

On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:

I downloaded a 770MB file titled
debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
surprises :<

[SNIP]



there is no app for
configuring a possible connection to the internet.


Launcher: In addition to text and GUI install options in the boot menu,
the desktop flavors contain a launcher on the desktop that can be used
to install while running the live image.


But that's not relevant. I am not ready to commit to 
installing yet. I wish to verify that in can operate with my 
hardware. Specifically connect to internet via my USB Analog 
Modem (it's *NOT* a winmodem ;)


You later define a live CD as containing "... a live 
environment so people can test hardware support before 
installing ..."


My very first test is:
 Can the "live system" *AS DELIVERED* connect to the internet?

This distro (debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso) 
evidently fails.

And evidently fails no matter how the internet is connected.


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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-24 Thread Umarzuki Mochlis 
> > Yes. A so-called "live CD", or more precisely, a "live system", is a
> > complete system prepared for a CD, DVD, USB key or other medium.
> > _*You*_ do not need to install anything on the hard drive. Instead
> > you boot from the CD or other medium and _*are able to start working
> > on the machine right away*_. All programs run directly from the
> > medium. "
> >
>
>
sir, you probably had a bad day and mistakenly downloaded the lxde (for its
smaller size)


as everyone suggested, use the gnome version instead which can be get from
http://live.debian.net/archive/images/6.0.3/i386/iso-hybrid/

it the 
"debian-live-6.0.3-i386-gnome-desktop.iso"
file and do make sure the MD5SUM is correct before burning it to a DVD
(it's a 1.1 GB file)

-- 
Regards,

Umarzuki Mochlis
http://debmal.my

Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-24 Thread Scott Ferguson 
On 25/01/12 06:21, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I downloaded a 770MB file titled
> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso . Burned a DVD.Got some
> surprises :<
> 
> Inspite of http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#live-cd stating in part:

Consider reading all the FAQ - instead of just part.

If you're going to nit pick you will get "surprises".

> 
> " Is a Debian "live CD" available?
> 
> Yes. A so-called "live CD", or more precisely, a "live system", is a 
> complete system prepared for a CD, DVD, USB key or other medium.
> _*You*_ do not need to install anything on the hard drive. Instead
> you boot from the CD or other medium and _*are able to start working
> on the machine right away*_. All programs run directly from the
> medium. "
> 

Every word of which is true.

> Evidently "start working right away" means using an open office app. 
> [a suite that is irrelevant for me]

It won't make toasted sandwiches either, or make you smarter.

> Not only is there no way to connect to internet, 

Please don't troll - we don't go to your favourite Windows XP phorums
making up complaints.

> there is no app for 
> configuring a possible connection to the internet.

Launcher: In addition to text and GUI install options in the boot menu,
the desktop flavors contain a launcher on the desktop that can be used
to install while running the live image.

Flavors: The live images come in "flavors", four providing the desktop
environments GNOME, KDE, LXDE and Xfce, and two text console flavors:
rescue and standard. Many users will find these initial package
selections suitable, installing any additional packages they need from
the network afterwards.

> 
> The second unkind surprise arrived when I popped the DVD into tray of
> an operating Windows(tm) machine after inviting me to blindly
> install. It triggered my browser bringing up README.txt which said in
> part: " About This Disc ===
> 
> This disc is labeled
> 
> Debian GNU/Linux squeeze-di-rc2 "Squeeze" - Official Snapshot i386 
> NETINST Binary-1 20110121-20:12
> 
> It contains programs ("binaries") for `i386' computers.
> 
> This disc is a _*netinst image*_.  ! 
> ?

Make up your mind - either you're complaining that despite your refusal
to fully *read* the documentation you were short changed on features -
or your complaining that *additional* features like the installer is
also a complaint.

> "
> 
> 
> That's what Debian can do with 750MB ?

Stuffed a disk full of documentation for those willing to read as well
as a live environment so people can test hardware support before
installing *and* install additional packages using the built-in
*network* support.

> 
> There is massive communication failure

Agreed.

> as other links internal to debian.org lead to a netinst image of
> ~150MB.


Yes. *Only* the netinst.iso.


Was there a valid question in your massive rant?



Cheers



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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-24 Thread steef 

Richard Owlett schreef:

I downloaded a 770MB file titled debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso .
Burned a DVD. Got some surprises :<

Inspite of http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#live-cd stating in part:

"
Is a Debian "live CD" available?

Yes. A so-called "live CD", or more precisely, a "live system", is a complete
system prepared for a CD, DVD, USB key or other medium. _*You*_ do not need to
install anything on the hard drive. Instead you boot from the CD or other
medium and
_*are able to start working on the machine right away*_.
All programs run directly from the medium.
"

Evidently "start working right away" means using an open office app.
[a suite that is irrelevant for me]
Not only is there no way to connect to internet, there is no app for
configuring a possible connection to the internet.

The second unkind surprise arrived when I popped the DVD into tray of an
operating Windows(tm) machine after inviting me to blindly install. It
triggered my browser bringing up README.txt which said in part:
"
About This Disc
===

This disc is labeled

Debian GNU/Linux squeeze-di-rc2 "Squeeze" - Official Snapshot i386
NETINST Binary-1 20110121-20:12

It contains programs ("binaries") for `i386' computers.

This disc is a _*netinst image*_.  ! ?
"


That's what Debian can do with 750MB ?

There is massive communication failure as other links internal to debian.org
lead to a netinst image of ~150MB.




is this a troll/ are you trolling?

steef






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Re: Just what does _DEBIAN_ mean by "live"

2012-01-24 Thread Andrei POPESCU 
On Ma, 24 ian 12, 13:21:48, Richard Owlett wrote:
>  I downloaded a 770MB file titled
> debian-live-6.0.3-i386-lxde-desktop.iso .
> Burned a DVD.Got some surprises :<
...
> Evidently "start working right away" means using an open office app.
> [a suite that is irrelevant for me]
> Not only is there no way to connect to internet, there is no app for
> configuring a possible connection to the internet.

LXDE is a lightweight desktop environment and doesn't include a network 
management software. You probably want the Gnome version instead.

> The second unkind surprise arrived when I popped the DVD into tray
> of an operating Windows(tm) machine after inviting me to blindly
> install. It triggered my browser bringing up README.txt which said
> in part:

[...]

Could you please post the link where you downloaded the image? Even 
better if you can also provide a checksum (md5, sha...).

Kind regards,
Andrei
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