Re: [NeilB@earthling.net: Re: Please help a poor gaijin!]
Neil Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thing's are quite a bit simpler if you just use emacs-20's built-in input methods Thanks for the reminder, but I had tried that (and forgotten about it) because I found it so frustrating. It doesn't accept standard input methods - to type in Nihongo I habitually type a double n like so:- nihonngo which is the way kanna and everything else I've used accept it, in addition to accepting the single n. Emacs insists on a single n. Actually, if you set the variable quail-japanese-use-double-n to t, emacs will use the `double n' method (I'm using emacs version 20.4; I don't know whether this variable existed in earlier versions). Then trying to undo mistakes gets even more frustrating - it seems to remember single keystrokes that have no representation onscreen when you backspace, and only appear when you type the next character. I found it a constant battle to use, whereas canna is just very smooth. I am very well aquainted with this annoying behavior, but thankfully it's been fixed in emacs-20.4. Also, Emacs's dictionary seems very limited - nihongo is not recognised as a word, but gets split as Nihon and hiragana go! I may be using it wrongly, of course. Hmmm... the emacs translation dictionary has its quirks (like every dictionary), but I've found it to be pretty good. It *certainly* has `nihongo'!! What was the last version of emacs/mule you tried? If you've only used an earlier version, I'd recommend that you give 20.4 a test-spin. Cheers, -Miles -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come. --Nietzsche
Re: Please help a poor gaijin!
Neil Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: c) Setting up Japanese input is quite tricky. I use canna, with standard slink emacs20. The various packages for this come with Debian-jp. Thing's are quite a bit simpler if you just use emacs-20's built-in input methods -- they basically just work out of the box (as long as your emacs was compiled with the leim support enabled). Just do: (set-language-environment Japanese) Then type C-\ (toggle-input-method) and begin typing! Newer versions of (stable-release) gnus actually are harder to make work correctly than older versions, but I have a small set of hacks that I put in my .gnus file, which make everything work pretty flawlessly. -Miles -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come. --Nietzsche
[NeilB@earthling.net: Re: Please help a poor gaijin!]
Miles Bader wrote:- Thing's are quite a bit simpler if you just use emacs-20's built-in input methods -- they basically just work out of the box (as long as your emacs was compiled with the leim support enabled). Just do: (set-language-environment Japanese) Then type C-\ (toggle-input-method) and begin typing! Newer versions of (stable-release) gnus actually are harder to make work correctly than older versions, but I have a small set of hacks that I put in my .gnus file, which make everything work pretty flawlessly. Hi Miles, Thanks for the reminder, but I had tried that (and forgotten about it) because I found it so frustrating. It doesn't accept standard input methods - to type in Nihongo I habitually type a double n like so:- nihonngo which is the way kanna and everything else I've used accept it, in addition to accepting the single n. Emacs insists on a single n. Then trying to undo mistakes gets even more frustrating - it seems to remember single keystrokes that have no representation onscreen when you backspace, and only appear when you type the next character. I found it a constant battle to use, whereas canna is just very smooth. Also, Emacs's dictionary seems very limited - nihongo is not recognised as a word, but gets split as Nihon and hiragana go! I may be using it wrongly, of course. Neil.
Re: Please help a poor gaijin!
Stephen Pitts wrote:- Hi! I'm trying to figure out what level of Japanese input support exists in Debian. Not much to my knowledge, unless you install Debian-jp. Ideally, I'd like to be able to receive messages written in Unicode with mutt (via the mutt-ja package), and type messages/documents in kana/kanji with vim and have them stored as Unicode. I don't think you mean Unicode - I don't think mail is sent in Unicode. Most use EUC encoding with iso-220-jp. I have mutt set up to read and send Japanese. To do this, you need at a minimum the following (there may be something I've omitted): a) Japanese console fonts, and a Japanese console. konfont is the package for the fonts, and kon / kterm (say) for the virtual console / X terminal emulator. b) Japanese patches for mutt. See http://home.sprintmail.com/~kikutani/mutt-e.html These patches apply almost cleanly to the debian slink source (this is the route I took). c) Setting up Japanese input is quite tricky. I use canna, with standard slink emacs20. The various packages for this come with Debian-jp. I haven't got the printing working yet, but I've hardly tried. I think it's much easier than the setting up any of the above. A Japanese Debian book I've picked up points to a package called escpf at http://www.debian.or.jp/prospective-packages.html which I haven't downloaded yet. Being able to print Japanese text would also be really nice. I'm a bit overwhelmed by how all of the packages work together. Do I need kinput2, canna, mutt-ja, and jvim-canna? Will I need some type of kana/kanji dictionary? Do I need to 'enable' kinput somehow, perhaps by editing my XF86Config? With canna, one way to do it is to select a key which when pressed with the CTRL key, toggles English / Japanese input. I use the Windows key right by the CTRL key on my standard English keyboard. xmodmap -e 'keycode 115 = Kanji' in .xsession achieves this. emacs20 has its own interface to canna, using CTRL + o. Editing files in Japanese works beautifully, and it's even possible to give files Japanese names. The English documentation is a little confusing and my Japanese fluency isn't enough to begin to try and understand the stuff written in Japanese. Thanks to any and all who can shed light on this for me. I found Craig Oda's stuff very informative about the issues behind a Japanese setup:- http://tlug.linux.or.jp/~craigoda/writings/linux-nihongo/ but the bit about emacs and canna didn't work for me; luckily what was detailed in my book was a tad simpler and did work. If you get close, I may be able to help with the finishing touches. 頑張ってね。 Neil.
