Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
Eugen Dedu wrote: > Thank you to all for your comments. After the post, it worked ok until > yesterday. Yesterday I shut down the laptop and noticed that the > problem affected grub again, so X is not faulty. I opened the laptop, > but only the back cover; the keyboard is on the front cover, and > difficult for me to open, so I have not opened it. There was no dust, > but I blew inside. I restarted the laptop and the keys have been > working correctly since then. If the problem occurs again, I will try > an external keyboard, and lifting up the keys. I will come back to you > when it is completely fixed. on youtube there are instruction how to disassemble almost every kind of laptop. Check out if needed.
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
Hi, I have a Dell Latitude 5580 laptop, and have been a happy debian unstable user for 20 years. I have a very weird problem with its builtin keyboard which slows down my work significantly (ctrl-c, ctrl-x, ENTER etc. do not work): Since several months ago some keys on my keyboard do not work, in all the applications (e.g. gnome-terminal, emacs, thundebird, firefox). When I press on them, very often nothing happens (usually, I press on them for 10 seconds to make appear the character), sometimes the key appears twice, and sometimes it works flawlessly. When it works, it works for several minutes or several hours; similarly, when it does not work, it does not for several minutes or hours or days. I use very often suspend/resume, I also use xmodmap and awesome window manager, but I suppose this is irrelevant. The problematic keys are found on the last row: xcvm,. (but zbn work) and the bottom keys (ctrl, alt, window, however space works always correctly), plus ENTER key. I have always thought that it is a X problem which will get fixed. Interesting, a few days ago I noticed that on grub I have the same problem: c and ENTER did not work. So now I wonder if it is not a hardware problem, however sometimes it works for a long time! I have looked at Xorg.0.log, without seeing anything wrong. How can I track down where the problem is, and fix it? Thank you to all for your comments. After the post, it worked ok until yesterday. Yesterday I shut down the laptop and noticed that the problem affected grub again, so X is not faulty. I opened the laptop, but only the back cover; the keyboard is on the front cover, and difficult for me to open, so I have not opened it. There was no dust, but I blew inside. I restarted the laptop and the keys have been working correctly since then. If the problem occurs again, I will try an external keyboard, and lifting up the keys. I will come back to you when it is completely fixed. Best regards, Eugen
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
On 8/12/20 5:24 AM, songbird wrote: Dan Ritter wrote: Doug McGarrett wrote: Someone along this thread mentioned key-pullers. I have a couple of IBM model M keyboards that haven't been cleaned in years. They work well anyway, but I'd like to clean the keys. Where could I get one of those key-puller tools? (If you ever get a chance to get one, TAKE IT! There's no better keyboard anywhere than this, altho it's too loud for a crowded office. And ALT-ESC will do the left Windows-key $10 at NewEgg. $5-15 at Amazon. but the keycaps on the Model M are among the easiest to pull by hand; I like to have a small flat-bladed screwdriver nearby, to pop one edge of oddly-placed keycaps. You may want some isopropyl alcohol to wipe away finger-grease from the remaining surfaces of the keyboard. a butter knife will work ok too. i agree though about the Model M and similar keyboards and really miss mine. too bad that that unicomp keyboards won't work for me (i've broke two of them the past x number of years and can't figure out how to fix them and since they're not sturdy enough it isn't worth sending them in for repairs). songbird There is an outfit that refurbishes Model M keyboards, and I think it used to have a source for a similar k/b. You can find them at: https://clickykeyboards.com/ These k/b's are expensive, but the Model M will probably never wear out! --doug
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
Dan Ritter wrote: > Doug McGarrett wrote: >> >> Someone along this thread mentioned key-pullers. I have a couple of IBM >> model M >> keyboards that haven't been cleaned in years. They work well anyway, but I'd >> like to clean >> the keys. Where could I get one of those key-puller tools? >> (If you ever get a chance to get one, TAKE IT! There's no better keyboard >> anywhere than >> this, altho it's too loud for a crowded office. And ALT-ESC will do the left >> Windows-key > > > $10 at NewEgg. $5-15 at Amazon. > > but the keycaps on the Model M are among the easiest to pull by > hand; I like to have a small flat-bladed screwdriver nearby, to > pop one edge of oddly-placed keycaps. > > You may want some isopropyl alcohol to wipe away finger-grease > from the remaining surfaces of the keyboard. a butter knife will work ok too. i agree though about the Model M and similar keyboards and really miss mine. too bad that that unicomp keyboards won't work for me (i've broke two of them the past x number of years and can't figure out how to fix them and since they're not sturdy enough it isn't worth sending them in for repairs). songbird
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > Oh, one other thing I should mention -- on most keyboards (at least the ones > I've cleaned) there are some metal pieces (essentially springs) under many of > the larger (wider) keys. I am pretty sure they are intended to allow > pressing > either end (or the center) of those long keys (e.g., the space bar). > > I am careful with those, also, to pay attention to how they are installed, > and > then to reinstall the same way, and also, during the reinstallation, I use a > toothpick to put a little bit of vaseline on the pivot point (where they > attach to the keyboard). yeah, there can be a bit of a challenge to figure out some things. right now i have two keyboards i took apart to see if i could fix them or combine them to get one working keyboard but as it turns out there is some kind of pressure/ribbon connection inside that i've screwed up and now both are shot for sure. too bad as i really liked them, but they could not hold up to how i used them and broke (all plastic case is too flexible and eventually the connections inside fail if you use it unsupported propped across your lap). songbird
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > Oh, one other thing I should mention -- on most keyboards (at least the ones > I've cleaned) there are some metal pieces (essentially springs) under many of > the larger (wider) keys. I am pretty sure they are intended to allow > pressing > either end (or the center) of those long keys (e.g., the space bar). > They're called stabilizers, and they usually click into the keyswitch and slide into the keycap left-right. You may want a thin poking device -- like an unwound paperclip -- to help spread them as you replace the keycap. -dsr-
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
Doug McGarrett wrote: > > Someone along this thread mentioned key-pullers. I have a couple of IBM > model M > keyboards that haven't been cleaned in years. They work well anyway, but I'd > like to clean > the keys. Where could I get one of those key-puller tools? > (If you ever get a chance to get one, TAKE IT! There's no better keyboard > anywhere than > this, altho it's too loud for a crowded office. And ALT-ESC will do the left > Windows-key $10 at NewEgg. $5-15 at Amazon. but the keycaps on the Model M are among the easiest to pull by hand; I like to have a small flat-bladed screwdriver nearby, to pop one edge of oddly-placed keycaps. You may want some isopropyl alcohol to wipe away finger-grease from the remaining surfaces of the keyboard. -dsr-
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
Oh, one other thing I should mention -- on most keyboards (at least the ones I've cleaned) there are some metal pieces (essentially springs) under many of the larger (wider) keys. I am pretty sure they are intended to allow pressing either end (or the center) of those long keys (e.g., the space bar). I am careful with those, also, to pay attention to how they are installed, and then to reinstall the same way, and also, during the reinstallation, I use a toothpick to put a little bit of vaseline on the pivot point (where they attach to the keyboard). On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:45:14 AM rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 10:28:37 AM Stefan Monnier wrote: > > That should work as well, but I was never able to disassemble any part > > of a keyboard without having the impression that I was breaking it, so > > I prefer to refrain from any such thing. > > I started doing it a long time ago, so have probably gotten used to the > various shortcuts in manufacturing that have been added over the years > (which tend to make each newer keyboard a little bit more of a puzzle). > > Generally, the keys can be lifted / snapped up by gently prying with > something like a table knife (not sharp). I do it in an uncluttered area > so that if something does go flying, I can find it (but, I keep one hand > cupped over the key I'm removing so I don't often lose anything). > > There are usually screws on the bottom, often hidden under pads or labels > that you can remove to separate the bottom and top. There are often > several layers of clear plastic with various coatings which I am very > careful with (to avoid scratching and to reassemble in the proper > sequence).
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
On 8/11/20 9:53 AM, Dan Ritter wrote: rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: The way I clean (a non-laptop) keyboard is by disassembling it and putting all the parts in a fresh (i.e., clean) washtub of warm water with dishsoap, let it soak for a few minutes, then rinse with clean water and let dry, often overnight (I almost always have a spare keyboard, but right not my spares need cleaning "-( This is a perfectly good method, and one which I used two days ago. -dsr- Someone along this thread mentioned key-pullers. I have a couple of IBM model M keyboards that haven't been cleaned in years. They work well anyway, but I'd like to clean the keys. Where could I get one of those key-puller tools? (If you ever get a chance to get one, TAKE IT! There's no better keyboard anywhere than this, altho it's too loud for a crowded office. And ALT-ESC will do the left Windows-key trick for Windows users.) --doug
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 10:28:37 AM Stefan Monnier wrote: > That should work as well, but I was never able to disassemble any part > of a keyboard without having the impression that I was breaking it, so > I prefer to refrain from any such thing. I started doing it a long time ago, so have probably gotten used to the various shortcuts in manufacturing that have been added over the years (which tend to make each newer keyboard a little bit more of a puzzle). Generally, the keys can be lifted / snapped up by gently prying with something like a table knife (not sharp). I do it in an uncluttered area so that if something does go flying, I can find it (but, I keep one hand cupped over the key I'm removing so I don't often lose anything). There are usually screws on the bottom, often hidden under pads or labels that you can remove to separate the bottom and top. There are often several layers of clear plastic with various coatings which I am very careful with (to avoid scratching and to reassemble in the proper sequence).
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
> The way I clean (a non-laptop) keyboard is by disassembling it and putting > all > the parts in a fresh (i.e., clean) washtub of warm water with dishsoap, let > it > soak for a few minutes, then rinse with clean water and let dry, often > overnight (I almost always have a spare keyboard, but right not my spares > need > cleaning "-( That should work as well, but I was never able to disassemble any part of a keyboard without having the impression that I was breaking it, so I prefer to refrain from any such thing. > Not sure I'm brave enough to try a dishwasher -- do you leave it assembled? Yup. > You probably mentioned it, but I'd probably also turn off any sources of > extra > heat (hot water or drying with hot air). Hot water doesn't seem to be a problem. The drying heat can reach temperatures that can be harmful, so you need to be a bit more careful with that (usually the recommendation is to use the top-rack and/or to stop the wash cycle before it dries). Stefan
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > The way I clean (a non-laptop) keyboard is by disassembling it and putting > all > the parts in a fresh (i.e., clean) washtub of warm water with dishsoap, let > it > soak for a few minutes, then rinse with clean water and let dry, often > overnight (I almost always have a spare keyboard, but right not my spares > need > cleaning "-( This is a perfectly good method, and one which I used two days ago. -dsr-
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
On Monday, August 10, 2020 10:34:56 PM Stefan Monnier wrote: > > IIRC, this is about a keyboard on a laptop -- I would not put any part of > > that in a dishwasher. > > You sure can, tho you'll want to put only the keyboard (many other parts > of a laptop can go safely into the dishwasher, actually, but indeed you > probably don't want to put the whole laptop in). Ok (but not for me). The way I clean (a non-laptop) keyboard is by disassembling it and putting all the parts in a fresh (i.e., clean) washtub of warm water with dishsoap, let it soak for a few minutes, then rinse with clean water and let dry, often overnight (I almost always have a spare keyboard, but right not my spares need cleaning "-( Not sure I'm brave enough to try a dishwasher -- do you leave it assembled? (I'd worry about small pieces, the keys and small spacers under the keys getting sucked into and/or stuck in the drain / garbage disposal at the bottom of at least some dishwashers.) You probably mentioned it, but I'd probably also turn off any sources of extra heat (hot water or drying with hot air).
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
> IIRC, this is about a keyboard on a laptop -- I would not put any part of > that > in a dishwasher. You sure can, tho you'll want to put only the keyboard (many other parts of a laptop can go safely into the dishwasher, actually, but indeed you probably don't want to put the whole laptop in). Stefan
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
IIRC, this is about a keyboard on a laptop -- I would not put any part of that in a dishwasher. On Monday, August 10, 2020 07:04:39 PM Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I suspect it is a hardware problem, and what I would do is get the manual > > for the laptop and look into how hard it might be to clean the keyboard. > > Definitely a good idea, since it's easy to do and can solve the problem > (depending on the problem's origin, obviously). > > > You might try blowing out (or vacuuming) the keyboard (with canned air or > > a vacuum cleaner / blower with tools with small orifices). > > Another thing you can do is to *wash* it. E.g. in a dishwasher. > It may sound odd/scary but it works really well. > Just make sure the keyboard is *really* dry before plugging it back in > (and try to avoid the dry-cycle since it can be too hot (especially if > you use the lower-rack)). Your favorite search engine may give you > other tips about this practice. > > > Stefan "who's done it a few times with his beloved Thinkpad > keyboards"
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
> I suspect it is a hardware problem, and what I would do is get the manual for > the laptop and look into how hard it might be to clean the keyboard. Definitely a good idea, since it's easy to do and can solve the problem (depending on the problem's origin, obviously). > You might try blowing out (or vacuuming) the keyboard (with canned air or a > vacuum cleaner / blower with tools with small orifices). Another thing you can do is to *wash* it. E.g. in a dishwasher. It may sound odd/scary but it works really well. Just make sure the keyboard is *really* dry before plugging it back in (and try to avoid the dry-cycle since it can be too hot (especially if you use the lower-rack)). Your favorite search engine may give you other tips about this practice. Stefan "who's done it a few times with his beloved Thinkpad keyboards"
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
On 8/10/20 7:56 AM, Eugen Dedu wrote: Hi, I have a Dell Latitude 5580 laptop, and have been a happy debian unstable user for 20 years. I have a very weird problem with its builtin keyboard which slows down my work significantly (ctrl-c, ctrl-x, ENTER etc. do not work): Since several months ago some keys on my keyboard do not work, in all the applications (e.g. gnome-terminal, emacs, thundebird, firefox). When I press on them, very often nothing happens (usually, I press on them for 10 seconds to make appear the character), sometimes the key appears twice, and sometimes it works flawlessly. When it works, it works for several minutes or several hours; similarly, when it does not work, it does not for several minutes or hours or days. I use very often suspend/resume, I also use xmodmap and awesome window manager, but I suppose this is irrelevant. The problematic keys are found on the last row: xcvm,. (but zbn work) and the bottom keys (ctrl, alt, window, however space works always correctly), plus ENTER key. I have always thought that it is a X problem which will get fixed. Interesting, a few days ago I noticed that on grub I have the same problem: c and ENTER did not work. So now I wonder if it is not a hardware problem, however sometimes it works for a long time! I have looked at Xorg.0.log, without seeing anything wrong. How can I track down where the problem is, and fix it? Thanks, Eugen For a quick answer, why not borrow a keyboard from some friend, or even a friendly dealer, and see if the problem goes away? --doug, WA2SAY
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
On Monday, August 10, 2020 07:56:43 AM Eugen Dedu wrote: > I have a Dell Latitude 5580 laptop, and have been a happy debian > unstable user for 20 years. I have a very weird problem with its > builtin keyboard which slows down my work significantly (ctrl-c, ctrl-x, > ENTER etc. do not work): > > Since several months ago some keys on my keyboard do not work, in all > the applications (e.g. gnome-terminal, emacs, thundebird, firefox). > When I press on them, very often nothing happens (usually, I press on > them for 10 seconds to make appear the character), sometimes the key > appears twice, and sometimes it works flawlessly. When it works, it > works for several minutes or several hours; similarly, when it does not > work, it does not for several minutes or hours or days. I use very > often suspend/resume, I also use xmodmap and awesome window manager, but > I suppose this is irrelevant. > > The problematic keys are found on the last row: xcvm,. (but zbn work) > and the bottom keys (ctrl, alt, window, however space works always > correctly), plus ENTER key. > > I have always thought that it is a X problem which will get fixed. > Interesting, a few days ago I noticed that on grub I have the same > problem: c and ENTER did not work. So now I wonder if it is not a > hardware problem, however sometimes it works for a long time! > > I have looked at Xorg.0.log, without seeing anything wrong. > > How can I track down where the problem is, and fix it? I hesitate to suggest what I'm going to suggest -- so I'd suggest you wait until you hear any responses from people that can suggest either a software fix or a software test. (Oh, see last line, maybe try plugging in an external keyboard (if that is possible) and see if you have the same problem.) I suspect it is a hardware problem, and what I would do is get the manual for the laptop and look into how hard it might be to clean the keyboard. You might try blowing out (or vacuuming) the keyboard (with canned air or a vacuum cleaner / blower with tools with small orifices). But if that doesn't work, and no one has a better suggestion, I'd look into trying to disassemble the keyboard to some extent and examining it and trying to clean it. I used to do this often with desktop keyboards, I guess I've been better lately at keeping them clean. Laptop keyboards can be much more difficult to dis- and re-assemble and keep them working. Hmm, one test I can think of -- try plugging in an external keyboard and see if you have the same problems (if there is a USB port (or other port for an external keyboard).
Re: Some keys on the keyboard do not work
Dear Eugen, Am Montag 10 August 2020 schrieb Eugen Dedu: > Hi, > > I have a Dell Latitude 5580 laptop, and have been a happy debian > unstable user for 20 years. I have a very weird problem with its > builtin keyboard which slows down my work significantly (ctrl-c, > ctrl-x, ENTER etc. do not work): > > Since several months ago some keys on my keyboard do not work, in all > the applications (e.g. gnome-terminal, emacs, thundebird, firefox). > When I press on them, very often nothing happens (usually, I press on > them for 10 seconds to make appear the character), sometimes the key > appears twice, and sometimes it works flawlessly. When it works, it > works for several minutes or several hours; similarly, when it does > not work, it does not for several minutes or hours or days. I use > very often suspend/resume, I also use xmodmap and awesome window > manager, but I suppose this is irrelevant. > > The problematic keys are found on the last row: xcvm,. (but zbn work) > and the bottom keys (ctrl, alt, window, however space works always > correctly), plus ENTER key. > > I have always thought that it is a X problem which will get fixed. > Interesting, a few days ago I noticed that on grub I have the same > problem: c and ENTER did not work. So now I wonder if it is not a > hardware problem, however sometimes it works for a long time! Just recently I discovered that a keyboard doesn't do anything when I hit one of these keys (german qwertz layout): qwer uiop 789+ They are all on the same row and I believe something broke inside the keyboard (I remember vaguely it having let fall down off the desk). Haven't investigated yet. > > I have looked at Xorg.0.log, without seeing anything wrong. > > How can I track down where the problem is, and fix it? Maybe test with another external keyboard?! HTH Kind regards, Stefan
