Re: Version and Release

[cbannister]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 04:45:50PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> Buster - Debian 10 - will be the release after Stretch

ooops, should read whole thread before replying to a message.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: Version and Release

[cbannister]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 11:19:19AM +, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> There aren't 3 versions of each release, there's only one. Stable, testing
> and unstable are nicknames / status codes applied to a given release at any
> stage of its lifecycle. Right now Jessie is stable, Stretch is testing. The
> unstable release is always called Sid, that never changes.
> 
> When stretch is considered stable enough, it will get a release number
> (9.0), and be referred to as stable. At this point Jessie will be
> "oldstable" and wheezy will pass into legend. Whatever Sid looks like at
> that time, will get a new Toy Story character name assigned, and become the

AIUI, the name is already chosen and will be 'Buster'.

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: Version and Release

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:41:52 +0100
Joe  wrote:

Hello Joe,

>Indeed, but the console distribution ID line (currently) shows
>'stretch/sid' and the default splash screen currently shows 'Debian 8'.

Which possibly only added to Chris' (OP) confusion.

>It is recommended that the sources.list file for unstable contains
>references to both unstable and testing, but the '/sid' ID

I wasn't aware of that.  Although, as I only use testing not unstable,
it's of academic interest only.  Thanks.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
When I say ugly, I don't mean rough looking, I mean hideous
Ugly - The Stranglers


pgpfieqK5uNoG.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Version and Release

[Joe]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 13:28:16 +0200
"c.hol...@ades.at"  wrote:

> AA... I see.
> That makes perfect sense.
> 

A bit more information: there is generally a release about every two
years. About eighteen months after a release, testing is 'frozen', in
that no new package versions will be added without good reason and
considerable discussion, and the priority shifts to clearing the
release-critical bugs ready for the next release.

https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
https://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/graph.png

Before the freeze, testing isn't too far removed from unstable, in
general a new package in unstable which does not show serious problems
within about two weeks will be moved on into testing.

After the freeze, unstable continues to advance, but without any
serious architecture changes. People who continuously use testing will
receive six months' worth of new packages immediately after a release,
but the upgrade should occur without problems. Now unstable can receive
larger changes which can be accepted one by one, but which would risk
the big testing upgrade failing if they had already been in unstable
at release time. Immediately after release, both testing and unstable
become somewhat interesting to use...

The main priority of Debian is that every stable version can be
upgraded in-place to the next version, and lower priorities are that
both testing and unstable should remain usable at all times. These are
different goals to those of most other distributions, and are the
reason why Debian software versions are sometimes fairly old. Knoppix,
for example, though based on Debian, is explicitly described as
non-maintainable, and when a new version is released, you throw the old
one away. This is an important issue for servers, where a from-scratch
installation and restoration of configurations into different software
versions can be a large job. Upgrade of a Debian server is not exactly
a routine matter, but it is generally all over in an hour, usually with
only a few minutes offline.

-- 
Joe

Re: Version and Release

[Joe]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 12:20:48 +0100
Brad Rogers  wrote:


> 
> sid=unstable and never, AFAIAA, takes a version number.
> 

Indeed, but the console distribution ID line (currently) shows
'stretch/sid' and the default splash screen currently shows 'Debian 8'.

It is recommended that the sources.list file for unstable contains
references to both unstable and testing, but the '/sid' ID
will appear even if only sid sources are selected.

-- 
Joe

Re: Version and Release

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 12:20:48PM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 12:03:12 +0200
> "c.hol...@ades.at"  wrote:
> 
> Hello c.hol...@ades.at,
> 
> >I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 = wheezy, 6 = 
> >squeeze, ...).
> >I also understand there are 3 releases of every version (stable, 
> >testing, unstable) and
> 
> That's where the bulk of your problem lies;  stable, testing and
> unstable are not three releases of every version.  Currently,
> oldstable=7=wheezy, stable=8=jessie, testing is what will be the next
> stable version, is codenamed stretch, and will most likely be version
> number 9.
> 
> When current testing becomes stable (i.e. when Debian release a new
> version), things will change such that stable=9=stretch,
> oldstable=8=jessie and testing will get a new, as yet undecided, release
> name.  It will, of course, be a Toy Story character's name.
> 
> So, whenever Debian release the next version (Stretch,v9), the
> oldstable, oldoldstable, stable and testing names will be pointed to
> their new positions.
> 
> sid=unstable and never, AFAIAA, takes a version number.
> 
> -- 
>  Regards  _
>  / )   "The blindingly obvious is
> / _)radnever immediately apparent"
> I'll tell you something, I think that you should know
> Rich Kids - Rich Kids

As of today:

Squeeze-LTS - Debian 6.8 is history

Wheezy-LTS - Debian 7.11 - has a couple of years support as of a couple of days 
ago.

Jessie - Debian 8.5 - is current Stable

Stretch - Debian 9 - will be released early next year in all likelihood - is 
current Testing

Buster - Debian 10 - will be the release after Stretch

Sid == unstable, permanently

So when the next major release time comes round:

Jessie will become oldstable

Stretch will become stable

What is testing at that point will eventually be the release eventually called 
Buster

Sid == sid == unstable

Hope this helps,

Andy C

Re: Version and Release

[David Wright]

On Wed 08 Jun 2016 at 13:37:47 (+0200), Norbert Kiszka wrote:
> Dnia 2016-06-08, śro o godzinie 13:28 +0200, c.hol...@ades.at pisze:
> > 
> > One additional question please:
> > Does stable and testing have nicknames too - like unstable = Sid??
> 
> Stable always have nickname.
> 
> Sid is always sid :)
> 
> Testing is "something" that will be next stable - in this day old stable
> become old-stable and...
> 
> ...old-stable has same nickname as it was. New stable will have
> offcourse another nickname.

stable *is* a nickname.

One day, someone will put a diagram on the Debian website.
It might look something like this:


Codename  Nicknames
(directory)   (symlinks)

experimental  rc-buggy (Not a distribution, just an assortment of packages)

sid   unstable (this symlink never changes)



buster  
stretch<- testing
jessie <- stable
wheezy <- oldstable
squeeze 
lenny   
etch
sarge   
woody   
potato  
slink   
hamm
bo  
rex 
buzz

On a Release Day, all the nicknames that have a <- against them
are moved upwards by one line.

With the exceptions above the  line, the collection of packages
under a given codename doesn't change. The nicknames do.

Also on a Release Day, a release number is applied to the new release.
So jessie was released as 8.0 and has been upgraded (renumbered) as
far as 8.5. This numbering scheme started with etch (4.0).
Before etch, codenames could be released as point releases
(sarge was 3.1 but never 3.0). stretch will be 9.0 but isn't there yet.

If you feel the need to verify this, just type:

$ ftp ftp.debian.org
Name: anonymous
Password: 
ftp> cd debian
ftp> cd dists
ftp> ls

Cheers,
David.

Re: Version and Release

[Norbert Kiszka]

Stable always have nickname.

Sid is always sid :)

Testing is "something" that will be next stable - in this day old stable
become old-stable and...

...old-stable has same nickname as it was. New stable will have
offcourse another nickname.


Hope this helps. If not, just ask again.



Dnia 2016-06-08, śro o godzinie 13:28 +0200, c.hol...@ades.at pisze:
> AA... I see.
> That makes perfect sense.
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> One additional question please:
> Does stable and testing have nicknames too - like unstable = Sid??
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On 2016-06-08 13:19, Mark Fletcher wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 at 19:51, c.hol...@ades.at 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Yes, I already knew this.
> > But I still get not the connection.
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > On 2016-06-08 12:18, humbert.olivie...@free.fr wrote:
> > > Hi Chris,
> > >
> > > good questions you're asking yourself here.
> > > Check https://www.debian.org/releases/ .
> > > This is a point where you want to start regarding this.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps,
> > > Olivier
> > >
> > >
> > > - Mail original -
> > > De: "c holper" 
> > > À: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > > Envoyé: Mercredi 8 Juin 2016 12:03:12
> > > Objet: Version and Release
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > I am not completely new to Debian but I never really
> > understood the
> > > version-system.
> > >
> > > I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 =
> > wheezy, 6 =
> > > squeeze, ...).
> > > I also understand there are 3 releases of every version
> > (stable,
> > > testing, unstable) and
> > > it is clear that stable has the oldest but most bugfree
> > version of
> > > software and unstable the opposit.
> > >
> > > But it seems there is some living connection between the
> > current testing
> > > and the future version...
> > > And what is "sid"?
> > >
> > > I downloades 8 testing (some months ago) and in my
> > apt-sources is
> > > jessie. Would it be something else if I chose stable??
> > > How can I see it in apt?
> > > Is there a better way to determine the release beside
> > lsb_relsease?
> > > /etc/debian_version is pretty clear but only the verion is
> > inside.
> > >
> > > Please clearifiy for me the impact of the the once chosen
> > release in
> > > connection with the current and future version.
> > > Big thankyou!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > There aren't 3 versions of each release, there's only one. Stable,
> > testing and unstable are nicknames / status codes applied to a given
> > release at any stage of its lifecycle. Right now Jessie is stable,
> > Stretch is testing. The unstable release is always called Sid, that
> > never changes. When stretch is considered stable enough, it will get
> > a release number (9.0), and be referred to as stable. At this point
> > Jessie will be "oldstable" and wheezy will pass into legend.
> > Whatever Sid looks like at that time, will get a new Toy Story
> > character name assigned, and become the new "testing". Sid and
> > "testing" will at that moment be identical, and will start to
> > diverge as stuff gets into Sid, and takes a while to prove itself
> > enough to get into "testing". HTH Mark
> 

Re: Version and Release

[c.hol...@ades.at]

AA... I see.
That makes perfect sense.

Thanks!!!

One additional question please:
Does stable and testing have nicknames too - like unstable = Sid??

Chris



On 2016-06-08 13:19, Mark Fletcher wrote:


On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 at 19:51, c.hol...@ades.at 
 mailto:c.hol...@ades.at>> 
wrote:


Yes, I already knew this.
But I still get not the connection.

Chris

On 2016-06-08 12:18, humbert.olivie...@free.fr
 wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> good questions you're asking yourself here.
> Check https://www.debian.org/releases/ .
> This is a point where you want to start regarding this.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Olivier
>
>
> - Mail original -
> De: "c holper" mailto:c.hol...@ades.at>>
> À: debian-user@lists.debian.org

> Envoyé: Mercredi 8 Juin 2016 12:03:12
> Objet: Version and Release
>
> Hi!
>
> I am not completely new to Debian but I never really understood the
> version-system.
>
> I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 =
wheezy, 6 =
> squeeze, ...).
> I also understand there are 3 releases of every version (stable,
> testing, unstable) and
> it is clear that stable has the oldest but most bugfree version of
> software and unstable the opposit.
>
> But it seems there is some living connection between the current
testing
> and the future version...
> And what is "sid"?
>
> I downloades 8 testing (some months ago) and in my apt-sources is
> jessie. Would it be something else if I chose stable??
> How can I see it in apt?
> Is there a better way to determine the release beside lsb_relsease?
> /etc/debian_version is pretty clear but only the verion is inside.
>
> Please clearifiy for me the impact of the the once chosen release in
> connection with the current and future version.
> Big thankyou!
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>

There aren't 3 versions of each release, there's only one. Stable, 
testing and unstable are nicknames / status codes applied to a given 
release at any stage of its lifecycle. Right now Jessie is stable, 
Stretch is testing. The unstable release is always called Sid, that 
never changes. When stretch is considered stable enough, it will get a 
release number (9.0), and be referred to as stable. At this point 
Jessie will be "oldstable" and wheezy will pass into legend. Whatever 
Sid looks like at that time, will get a new Toy Story character name 
assigned, and become the new "testing". Sid and "testing" will at that 
moment be identical, and will start to diverge as stuff gets into Sid, 
and takes a while to prove itself enough to get into "testing". HTH Mark

Re: Version and Release

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 12:03:12 +0200
"c.hol...@ades.at"  wrote:

Hello c.hol...@ades.at,

>I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 = wheezy, 6 = 
>squeeze, ...).
>I also understand there are 3 releases of every version (stable, 
>testing, unstable) and

That's where the bulk of your problem lies;  stable, testing and
unstable are not three releases of every version.  Currently,
oldstable=7=wheezy, stable=8=jessie, testing is what will be the next
stable version, is codenamed stretch, and will most likely be version
number 9.

When current testing becomes stable (i.e. when Debian release a new
version), things will change such that stable=9=stretch,
oldstable=8=jessie and testing will get a new, as yet undecided, release
name.  It will, of course, be a Toy Story character's name.

So, whenever Debian release the next version (Stretch,v9), the
oldstable, oldoldstable, stable and testing names will be pointed to
their new positions.

sid=unstable and never, AFAIAA, takes a version number.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
I'll tell you something, I think that you should know
Rich Kids - Rich Kids


pgp9iSf7wDlOO.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Version and Release

[Mark Fletcher]

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 at 19:51, c.hol...@ades.at  wrote:

> Yes, I already knew this.
> But I still get not the connection.
>
> Chris
>
> On 2016-06-08 12:18, humbert.olivie...@free.fr wrote:
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > good questions you're asking yourself here.
> > Check https://www.debian.org/releases/ .
> > This is a point where you want to start regarding this.
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> > Olivier
> >
> >
> > - Mail original -
> > De: "c holper" 
> > À: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Envoyé: Mercredi 8 Juin 2016 12:03:12
> > Objet: Version and Release
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I am not completely new to Debian but I never really understood the
> > version-system.
> >
> > I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 = wheezy, 6 =
> > squeeze, ...).
> > I also understand there are 3 releases of every version (stable,
> > testing, unstable) and
> > it is clear that stable has the oldest but most bugfree version of
> > software and unstable the opposit.
> >
> > But it seems there is some living connection between the current testing
> > and the future version...
> > And what is "sid"?
> >
> > I downloades 8 testing (some months ago) and in my apt-sources is
> > jessie. Would it be something else if I chose stable??
> > How can I see it in apt?
> > Is there a better way to determine the release beside lsb_relsease?
> > /etc/debian_version is pretty clear but only the verion is inside.
> >
> > Please clearifiy for me the impact of the the once chosen release in
> > connection with the current and future version.
> > Big thankyou!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
There aren't 3 versions of each release, there's only one. Stable, testing
and unstable are nicknames / status codes applied to a given release at any
stage of its lifecycle. Right now Jessie is stable, Stretch is testing. The
unstable release is always called Sid, that never changes.

When stretch is considered stable enough, it will get a release number
(9.0), and be referred to as stable. At this point Jessie will be
"oldstable" and wheezy will pass into legend. Whatever Sid looks like at
that time, will get a new Toy Story character name assigned, and become the
new "testing". Sid and "testing" will at that moment be identical, and will
start to diverge as stuff gets into Sid, and takes a while to prove itself
enough to get into "testing".

HTH

Mark

Re: Version and Release

[c.hol...@ades.at]

Yes, I already knew this.
But I still get not the connection.

Chris

On 2016-06-08 12:18, humbert.olivie...@free.fr wrote:

Hi Chris,

good questions you're asking yourself here.
Check https://www.debian.org/releases/ .
This is a point where you want to start regarding this.

Hope that helps,
Olivier


- Mail original -
De: "c holper" 
À: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 8 Juin 2016 12:03:12
Objet: Version and Release

Hi!

I am not completely new to Debian but I never really understood the
version-system.

I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 = wheezy, 6 =
squeeze, ...).
I also understand there are 3 releases of every version (stable,
testing, unstable) and
it is clear that stable has the oldest but most bugfree version of
software and unstable the opposit.

But it seems there is some living connection between the current testing
and the future version...
And what is "sid"?

I downloades 8 testing (some months ago) and in my apt-sources is
jessie. Would it be something else if I chose stable??
How can I see it in apt?
Is there a better way to determine the release beside lsb_relsease?
/etc/debian_version is pretty clear but only the verion is inside.

Please clearifiy for me the impact of the the once chosen release in
connection with the current and future version.
Big thankyou!

Cheers,
Chris

Re: Version and Release

[humbert . olivier . 1]

Hi Chris,

good questions you're asking yourself here. 
Check https://www.debian.org/releases/ .
This is a point where you want to start regarding this.

Hope that helps,
Olivier


- Mail original -
De: "c holper" 
À: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 8 Juin 2016 12:03:12
Objet: Version and Release

Hi!

I am not completely new to Debian but I never really understood the 
version-system.

I understand the versions have nicknames (8 = jessie, 7 = wheezy, 6 = 
squeeze, ...).
I also understand there are 3 releases of every version (stable, 
testing, unstable) and
it is clear that stable has the oldest but most bugfree version of 
software and unstable the opposit.

But it seems there is some living connection between the current testing 
and the future version...
And what is "sid"?

I downloades 8 testing (some months ago) and in my apt-sources is 
jessie. Would it be something else if I chose stable??
How can I see it in apt?
Is there a better way to determine the release beside lsb_relsease?
/etc/debian_version is pretty clear but only the verion is inside.

Please clearifiy for me the impact of the the once chosen release in 
connection with the current and future version.
Big thankyou!

Cheers,
Chris