Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-13 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 18:03:34 -0400, shawn wilson wrote:

(please, avoid using html, is quite complex to read your e-mails ;-()

> On Jul 12, 2011 2:05 PM, "Camaleón"  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:53:41 +, darkestkhan wrote:
>>
>> > 2011/7/11 Robert Holtzman :
>> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> >>> Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
>> >>> graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for
>> >>> the future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector,
>> >>> the industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.
>> >>
>> >> What will rplace PCI?`
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Wouldn't that be PCIE? unless there is some shiny bleedingly bleeding
>> > edge technology that I don't know of...
>>
>> Thunderbolt/Light Peak? O:-)
>>
>>
> Humm, not really. I think if you look at the spec, you'll find the max
> bandwidth if tb < pci-e x16. I think of this stuff as different layers
> like OSI but I don't really name mine - its more conceptual or maybe a
> tree like lsusb shows.

Thunderbolt spec is capable of 100 Gbit/s (bi-directionally) and todays 
implementation (copper based circuits that can seep up to 10 Gbit/s) can 
compete with PCie v2 (x8). Also, photonic -fiber- has additional 
advantadges over electronic components ;-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread Miles Bader 
Camaleón  writes:
> I don't trust USB external enclosures that claim not needing
> external power other than the common port or that use another USB
> port to fetch it from there. They tend to lie... well, not "they"
> but USB ports which do not always provide the full required voltage
> and then is when your problems start: your DVD reader sporadically
> fails to write, the USB hard disk is not being recognized or just is
> "sometimes", your DVD reader has "hicups" when playing your favorite
> movie...

It is true that my cdrom's advertised power draw (5W) is double the
 "official" maximum, though I've never had any problems in practice.

My general observation is that using the "main body" USB ports on a PC
is generally good for anything I throw at them, but one has to be
careful with non-powered hubs (e.g., in USB keyboards or whatever).

-Miles

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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread shawn wilson 
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 18:06, William Hopkins  wrote:
> On 07/11/11 at 04:47pm, Robert Holtzman wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> > Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
>> > graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
>> > future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
>> > industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.
>>
>> What will rplace PCI?`
>
> PCI-X. Duh.
>

yeah, iirc there were 2 versions of pci-x - 32 and 64 bit and iirc,
there were 2v and 5v (volt) variants. and pci-e replaces that with x1
through x16 (i'll leave you guys to wikipedia for the gory details). i
actually think pci-e is one of the better things that the industry has
done with interfaces. it might even be good enough to last for another
10 years (but surely not 15 like pci has).


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread William Hopkins 
On 07/11/11 at 04:47pm, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
> > graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
> > future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
> > industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.
> 
> What will rplace PCI?`

PCI-X. Duh.

-- 
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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jul 12, 2011 2:05 PM, "Camaleón"  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:53:41 +, darkestkhan wrote:
>
> > 2011/7/11 Robert Holtzman :
> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >>> Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
> >>> graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
> >>> future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
> >>> industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.
> >>
> >> What will rplace PCI?`
> >>
> >>
> > Wouldn't that be PCIE? unless there is some shiny bleedingly bleeding
> > edge technology that I don't know of...
>
> Thunderbolt/Light Peak? O:-)
>

Humm, not really. I think if you look at the spec, you'll find the max
bandwidth if tb < pci-e x16. I think of this stuff as different layers like
OSI but I don't really name mine - its more conceptual or maybe a tree like
lsusb shows.

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread William Hopkins 
On 07/11/11 at 01:24pm, Camaleón wrote:
> Marketing and I follow different ways... I still look for a motherbaord 
> that provides RS-232, LPT and Floppy "by default" O:-)

Just a +1 for RS-232 support. Until desktops start coming with out-of-band
management (iLO, etc.) serial is an absolute requirement (:

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Liam


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:01:29 +0900, Miles Bader wrote:

> Camaleón  writes:
>> Another possibility is having an external optical unit, but it requires
>> and extra power supply (that means more cables around)
> 
> Hmm, actually modern optical external drives don't seem to need a power
> supply, at least those that run off USB.

(...)

True... true with a "but".

I have an external enclosure (for slim DVD readers) that uses an 
additional USB port in order to be powered.

But you know what? I don't trust USB external enclosures that claim not 
needing external power other than the common port or that use another USB 
port to fetch it from there. They tend to lie... well, not "they" but USB 
ports which do not always provide the full required voltage and then is 
when your problems start: your DVD reader sporadically fails to write, 
the USB hard disk is not being recognized or just is "sometimes", your 
DVD reader has "hicups" when playing your favorite movie...

So yes, non-extra-powered USB devices work... when they work :-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread Camaleón 
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 00:53:41 +, darkestkhan wrote:

> 2011/7/11 Robert Holtzman :
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>> Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
>>> graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
>>> future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
>>> industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.
>>
>> What will rplace PCI?`
>>
>>
> Wouldn't that be PCIE? unless there is some shiny bleedingly bleeding
> edge technology that I don't know of...

Thunderbolt/Light Peak? O:-)

Greetings,

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Camaleón


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-12 Thread Miles Bader 
Camaleón  writes:
> Another possibility is having an external optical unit, but it requires 
> and extra power supply (that means more cables around)

Hmm, actually modern optical external drives don't seem to need a
power supply, at least those that run off USB.

I bought the _cheapest_ external optical drive I could find in a local
electronics store, merely to read CDs -- but the even the cheapest
external USB drive they had (pretty cheap, like $40-50?  I forget) was
tiny (like a slightly thick CD case, with a few more cm in one
dimension) ran off of USB power, and was also capable of reading DVDs
and burning CDs and DVDs.

I don't use it so often, so mostly it just sits in a drawer, but it's
so small I don't really care, and it's nice to have it around for
those rare occasions when it's handy.

When I buy a new computer, of course, I won't have to even think about
it -- it will still sit in the drawer waiting to be used.  :]  USB
will still be around for a few more computer generations at least, and
for optical drives (maybe unlike hard disks) its speed is perfectly
acceptable.

... and I bought this a few years ago; I imagine they're even cheaper
and more capable now.

-Miles

-- 
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be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a newspaperman, but if
a man doesn't drive, there is something wrong with him.  -- Art Buchwald


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread darkestkhan 
2011/7/11 Robert Holtzman :
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
>> graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
>> future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
>> industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.
>
> What will rplace PCI?`
>

Wouldn't that be PCIE? unless there is some shiny bleedingly bleeding
edge technology that I don't know of...

darkestkhan
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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread darkestkhan 
2011/7/11 Ralf Mardorf :
> A last PS ;).
>
> If you do office work and browse the Internet you might not need a 64
> core CPU ;), so you could safe money to buy a new burner and you you
> also will safe money in the future, because you reduce the CPU's
> consumption.
>
>
two possibilities:
 you meant 64bits CPU - I still can't get 64 core w/o going to tilera,
powerpc (those new shiny ones) or sparc (ie. niagara) or it was meant
as a sarcasm

darkestkhan
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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Robert Holtzman 
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 06:48:28AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
> graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
> future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
> industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.

What will rplace PCI?`

-- 
Bob Holtzman
If you think you're getting free lunch, 
check the price of the beer.
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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jul 11, 2011 4:07 PM, "William Hopkins"  wrote:
>
> On 07/11/11 at 03:47pm, shawn wilson wrote:
> > On Jul 11, 2011 3:30 PM, "William Hopkins"  wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > Don't get me started on not being able to find small HDDs anymore :P
> > >
> >
> > I've got some 40 meg hdd's on my shelf (think they're SCSI). I'll send
you
> > one if you pay up front. I think they're about 8 lbs :)
>
> Heh, I don't have any that small anymore.
>
> > But seriously, I've never had an issue with this. You can get a cf card
or
> > (possibly SD card) controller you can boot from or possibly a new usb
card
> > for that.
>
> SD cards are preettyy slow for booting. And not good for heavy writes.
>

Yeah. How often do you *boot*? I thought they fit the bill quite nicely when
you want to load a small system into RAM, do something like open iscsi, or
whatever. I had only setup pxe once for doing mass backups and image
deployments and it worked decent. I don't have a good feel for a use case of
one over the other.

> > However I've only done this once. In the industry, we use fc or iscsi
hba
> > cards that allow booting off of a san. And pxe works in a pinch (or for
> > clients if you were smart about what and how you purchase).
>
> Which industry? I've done IT in the financial, retail, and tech industries
and
> booting from SAN or PXE are not standard. My complaint was for home use,
> though.. these 500GB+ disks are just absurdly overkill for my uses.
>

I've mainly worked in environments that use vm servers and 2x $400 HBAs are
just standard build (in HP dl360 - haven't been able to convince anyone to
try the BLade stuff).

However, as I said above, pxe has been integrated into most BIOS / nic for
8+ years. So it should work for most use cases.

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Lisi 
On Monday 11 July 2011 20:20:06 Chris Brennan wrote:
> On 7/11/2011 2:55 PM, William Hopkins wrote:
> > On 07/10/11 at 03:09pm, mark wrote:
> > I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change was when
> > you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..
>
> Wait! So you can't get floppy drives anymore!?! :P

There are a few here, assuming that we are talking about internal fdds.  There 
are loads of external ones!!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=floppy+disk+drive&x=16&y=14
and here:
http://floppydisk.com/internal.htm

Lisi


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread William Hopkins 
On 07/11/11 at 03:47pm, shawn wilson wrote:
> On Jul 11, 2011 3:30 PM, "William Hopkins"  wrote:
> >
> 
> > Don't get me started on not being able to find small HDDs anymore :P
> >
> 
> I've got some 40 meg hdd's on my shelf (think they're SCSI). I'll send you
> one if you pay up front. I think they're about 8 lbs :)

Heh, I don't have any that small anymore.

> But seriously, I've never had an issue with this. You can get a cf card or
> (possibly SD card) controller you can boot from or possibly a new usb card
> for that.

SD cards are preettyy slow for booting. And not good for heavy writes.

> However I've only done this once. In the industry, we use fc or iscsi hba
> cards that allow booting off of a san. And pxe works in a pinch (or for
> clients if you were smart about what and how you purchase).  

Which industry? I've done IT in the financial, retail, and tech industries and
booting from SAN or PXE are not standard. My complaint was for home use,
though.. these 500GB+ disks are just absurdly overkill for my uses.

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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jul 11, 2011 3:48 PM, "Brian"  wrote:
>
> On Mon 11 Jul 2011 at 14:55:41 -0400, William Hopkins wrote:
>
> > go sometime (: I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change
was when
> > you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..
>
> 5.25" or 3.5"?
>

7.25" :P

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jul 11, 2011 3:30 PM, "William Hopkins"  wrote:
>

> Don't get me started on not being able to find small HDDs anymore :P
>

I've got some 40 meg hdd's on my shelf (think they're SCSI). I'll send you
one if you pay up front. I think they're about 8 lbs :)

But seriously, I've never had an issue with this. You can get a cf card or
(possibly SD card) controller you can boot from or possibly a new usb card
for that. However I've only done this once. In the industry, we use fc or
iscsi hba cards that allow booting off of a san. And pxe works in a pinch
(or for clients if you were smart about what and how you purchase).

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Brian 
On Mon 11 Jul 2011 at 14:55:41 -0400, William Hopkins wrote:

> go sometime (: I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change was 
> when
> you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..

5.25" or 3.5"?


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Doug 

On 07/11/2011 03:20 PM, Chris Brennan wrote:

On 7/11/2011 2:55 PM, William Hopkins wrote:

On 07/10/11 at 03:09pm, mark wrote:
I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change was when
you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..


Wait! So you can't get floppy drives anymore!?! :P


Tiger has floppy drives, both internal and external.  The internal ones
use ide (pata) connections, so you might need that card I mentioned a
while back on this thread!

The problem(s) with floppy disks:

A lot of programs that you may have saved won't run on Windows 7, altho
they will probably run in DosBox--a PITA.  They might run in XP. They might
run in WINE, if you can get WINE to recognize a floppy--I never could, 
which

makes WINE useless to me. (I haven't tried it lately.)

A lot of old floppies have become unreadable.  Even new floppies (available
from Radio Shack, among others) have a lot of bad sectors.  They're probably
NOS--new old stock.

--doug


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread William Hopkins 
On 07/11/11 at 03:20pm, Chris Brennan wrote:
> On 7/11/2011 2:55 PM, William Hopkins wrote:
> > On 07/10/11 at 03:09pm, mark wrote:
> > I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change was when
> > you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..
> > 
> 
> Wait! So you can't get floppy drives anymore!?! :P

PCs don't come with them, that I've seen. Lots of motherboards without the
connectors, too. It's a shame, CDs are so overkill for PXE boot roms, GRUB/LILO
disks, Tom's RTBT, etc...

And there's a gap between machines with floppy support and ones with USB boot
disk support.. but luckily most now support USB so I can use a thumbdrive for
these things.

Don't get me started on not being able to find small HDDs anymore :P

-- 
Liam


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Chris Brennan 
On 7/11/2011 2:55 PM, William Hopkins wrote:
> On 07/10/11 at 03:09pm, mark wrote:
> I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change was when
> you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..
> 

Wait! So you can't get floppy drives anymore!?! :P

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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread William Hopkins 
On 07/10/11 at 03:09pm, mark wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've 
> been looking at motherboards (MSI & Gigabyte) and it seems that the 
> IDE interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new 
> direction for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?

Ah, changes in hardware standards are the way of the world. I have some ISA
cards lying around still, but no machines which could possibly use them (:

I didn't realize IDE was no longer being provided, though. I bought a new
top-of-the-line computer last year and it still had them. Oh well, they had to
go sometime (: I think the last time I was annoyed about such a change was when
you couldn't get floppy drives anymore..

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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread mark 
On Monday 11 July 2011 9:24:36 am Camaleón wrote:
> Another possibility is having an external optical unit, but it
> requires and extra power supply (that means more cables around) and
> occupies valuable space.
>

Aha!  The cable monster.  So far on my desk are: PC, monitor, speaker, 
telephone, printer & cel phone charger cables + 2 power bricks.  
Charging my netbook adds another cable and charging brick.  Add 
keyboard, mouse and speaker wires on the desktop +++.   I'm going to 
go with adding the optical drive internally because I don't want to 
add more to the cable clutter and lose more desktop space.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and humor.

Mark


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Camaleón 
On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:32:45 +0100, Lisi wrote:

> On Monday 11 July 2011 14:24:36 Camaleón wrote:
>> > supplies), fdd, ps/2, etc.
>>
>> And don't forget our floppy best friend! :-)
>>  
>>  
> erm...  "fdd"!="floppy best friend"  ;-)

Ouch! Very true... 

I read it so fast that missed the small 3 letters O:-)

Greetings,


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Lisi 
On Monday 11 July 2011 14:24:36 Camaleón wrote:
> > supplies), fdd, ps/2, etc.
>
> And don't forget our floppy best friend! :-)
>  

erm...  "fdd"!="floppy best friend"  ;-)

Lisi


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Camaleón 
On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:10:09 -0400, shawn wilson wrote:

> On Jul 11, 2011 8:05 AM, "Camaleón"  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:09:06 -0400, mark wrote:
>>
>> > I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've
>> > been looking at motherboards (MSI & Gigabyte) and it seems that the
>> > IDE interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new
>> > direction for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?
>>
>> If you are buying components for a new PC I would discard IDE at all
>> and go for SATA300/600 hard disks and SATA optical unit.
>>
>>
> And if I were buying components... I wouldn't even buy an optical drive.


Then you'll miss the "magic world of multimedia" :-P


> I haven't had the need for cd in ages. If you're really into cds though,
> how about a usb or eSATA unit so that you can use your media on multiple
> computers?

I hate optical storage like the most, but I still find it useful for a 
limited set of contexts (like installing an OS -without hassle- or 
loading an ISO image for maintenance tasks -hard disk smart check, BIOS 
update...-).

> ... just an idea.

Another possibility is having an external optical unit, but it requires 
and extra power supply (that means more cables around) and occupies 
valuable space.

>> IDE is nowadays a dead end like many other interfaces (LPT, RS-232,
>> ISA, AGP...) so unless you really need it, it's loosing money. Sigh.
>> Times go by so fast...
>>
>>
> ... mca, SCSI, pci, pcix (though I think I've still seen that in
> consumer pcs), firewire, ir, vga, simm, slot1 (processors), at (power
> supplies), fdd, ps/2, etc.

And don't forget our floppy best friend! :-)
 
> Ps, couldn't help ^^ :) I'm sure I missed a few (you can probably dig up
> an old makedev script and put my memory to shame, but...). Some of the
> changes are good some are just good marketing. In the end, it really
> doesn't matter: go with the flow or you'll loose.

Marketing and I follow different ways... I still look for a motherbaord 
that provides RS-232, LPT and Floppy "by default" O:-)

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jul 11, 2011 8:05 AM, "Camaleón"  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:09:06 -0400, mark wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've been
> > looking at motherboards (MSI & Gigabyte) and it seems that the IDE
> > interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new direction
> > for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?
>
> If you are buying components for a new PC I would discard IDE at all and
> go for SATA300/600 hard disks and SATA optical unit.
>

And if I were buying components... I wouldn't even buy an optical drive. I
haven't had the need for cd in ages. If you're really into cds though, how
about a usb or eSATA unit so that you can use your media on multiple
computers?

... just an idea.

> IDE is nowadays a dead end like many other interfaces (LPT, RS-232, ISA,
> AGP...) so unless you really need it, it's loosing money. Sigh. Times go
> by so fast...
>

... mca, SCSI, pci, pcix (though I think I've still seen that in consumer
pcs), firewire, ir, vga, simm, slot1 (processors), at (power supplies), fdd,
ps/2, etc.

Ps, couldn't help ^^ :) I'm sure I missed a few (you can probably dig up an
old makedev script and put my memory to shame, but...). Some of the changes
are good some are just good marketing. In the end, it really doesn't matter:
go with the flow or you'll loose.

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread Camaleón 
On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:09:06 -0400, mark wrote:

> I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've been
> looking at motherboards (MSI & Gigabyte) and it seems that the IDE
> interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new direction
> for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?

If you are buying components for a new PC I would discard IDE at all and 
go for SATA300/600 hard disks and SATA optical unit.

IDE is nowadays a dead end like many other interfaces (LPT, RS-232, ISA, 
AGP...) so unless you really need it, it's loosing money. Sigh. Times go 
by so fast...

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-11 Thread mark 
On Monday 11 July 2011 12:57:51 am Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> A last PS ;).
>
> If you do office work and browse the Internet you might not need a
> 64 core CPU ;), so you could safe money to buy a new burner and you
> you also will safe money in the future, because you reduce the
> CPU's consumption.


Thanks for the advice Ralf. I've been building PCs since  
h . a long time. (I don't want to enter the navel gazing 
exercise of how long have you...)  I stopped keeping up a couple of 
years ago and have been trying to catch up.  I spoke to the kind 
folks at my local MicroCenter and the motherboard the person 
recommended did not have an IDE interface.  I was surprised.  

I wish I could predict what I will use the computer for.  Predictions 
haven't worked out in the past.  I'm not a gamer, but if something 
caught my interest.I'm not into sound recording and production, 
but when a series of radio programs hosted by Bob Dylan were 
broadcast, I became very interested...etc. etc.  

Thanks again,

Mark


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread Ralf Mardorf 
A last PS ;).

If you do office work and browse the Internet you might not need a 64
core CPU ;), so you could safe money to buy a new burner and you you
also will safe money in the future, because you reduce the CPU's
consumption.


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread Ralf Mardorf 
Perhaps you one day will switch from an integrated graphics to a
graphics card, since your needs might change. Care about slots for the
future, don't waste time with thinking about an IDE connector, the
industry has dropped IDE and they are going to drop PCI too.


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread Ralf Mardorf 

> > > I agree with the other posters - buy a new burner.

+1
> > > 
> > Tiger has an IDE 2-port card for $14.95. That's cheaper than buying
> > a couple of DVD burners, if you have them already.

How many of the old PCI slots the new mobo has got?
If it should have enough old PCI slots, will such a card work correctly
with every chipset? E.g. will the burner become bootable with all mobos?

What do you think is the livespan of the old IDE burner?

Even if you get a board with one primary IDE connector you can run into
issues.

Buy a new burner.

> Want to build new Debian PC.

For what usage? You should take care of other possible issues.
How many PCI/PCIe slots do you need?

For example, my machine is a digital audio workstation.
There are a lot of USB audio devices on the market,
but USB will cause jitter, hence I need PCI/PCIe slots.

You might wish to use a fax card or what ever.


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread Doug 

On 07/10/2011 03:33 PM, shawn wilson wrote:



On Jul 10, 2011 3:07 PM, "mark" > wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've
> been looking at motherboards (MSI & Gigabyte) and it seems that the
> IDE interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new
> direction for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?
>

I agree with the other posters - buy a new burner. I wouldn't limit my 
mb choices like that just to save ~$40 on a new drive. I did this a 
few years back and the drive stopped working 8 months later (I had 
other reasons too, but...). And yes, SATA is the way forward.


Tiger has an IDE 2-port card for $14.95. That's cheaper than buying a 
couple of DVD burners, if you have them already.  --doug

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4776345&SRCCODE=SHOPPINGDF&cm_mmc_o=2mHCjCmtB55bETCjCVqHCjCdwwp&cpncode=00-36521844-2

--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. 
M. Greeley

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread mark 
On Sunday 10 July 2011 3:14:20 pm Dejan Ribič wrote:
> You can still get an IDE interface on some motherboards, although
> it is becoming more and more difficult. Is there any particular
> reason for wanting/needing IDE?
>

Just to save not getting a new SATA burner.  Oh well, that is the way 
to go.

Thanks all,

Mark


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread shawn wilson 
On Jul 10, 2011 3:07 PM, "mark"  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've
> been looking at motherboards (MSI & Gigabyte) and it seems that the
> IDE interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new
> direction for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?
>

I agree with the other posters - buy a new burner. I wouldn't limit my mb
choices like that just to save ~$40 on a new drive. I did this a few years
back and the drive stopped working 8 months later (I had other reasons too,
but...). And yes, SATA is the way forward.

Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread Lisi 
On Sunday 10 July 2011 20:09:06 mark wrote:
>  Is no more IDE interface the new
> direction for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?

Or an IDE card?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=IDE+card&x=14&y=19

Though a SATA brner might well be cheaper!
Lisi


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Re: Want to build new Debian PC. Is IDE interface gone?

2011-07-10 Thread Dejan Ribič 

On 10. 07. 2011 21:09, mark wrote:

Hi,

I'm looking for components for a new PC to install debian on.  I've
been looking at motherboards (MSI&  Gigabyte) and it seems that the
IDE interface no longer exists.  Is no more IDE interface the new
direction for PCs so that I will have to buy a SATA burner?

Thanks,

Mark



Hi,

You can still get an IDE interface on some motherboards, although it is 
becoming more and more difficult. Is there any particular reason for 
wanting/needing IDE?


Cheers,

Dejan Ribič