Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Michael Stone]

On Tue, Jan 04, 2022 at 08:52:00AM -0500, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, January 04, 2022 05:20:34 AM Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

gene heskett  wrote on 03/01/2022 at 02:24:53+0100:
> The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the
> way up thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.

I think you probably tried to kill something else without realizing it.


That is still scary (I'm not the OP).


You must be unaware of how the OP has a long history 
of...unique...problems? It's only scary if something is a common issue; 
there's no system that can't get screwed up with enough effort. 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

rhkra...@gmail.com wrote on 04/01/2022 at 14:52:00+0100:

> On Tuesday, January 04, 2022 05:20:34 AM Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> gene heskett  wrote on 03/01/2022 at 02:24:53+0100:
>> > The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the
>> > way up thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.
>> 
>> I think you probably tried to kill something else without realizing it.
>
> That is still scary (I'm not the OP).

Let's agree to disagree.

-- 
PEB

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, January 04, 2022 05:20:34 AM Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> gene heskett  wrote on 03/01/2022 at 02:24:53+0100:
> > The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the
> > way up thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.
> 
> I think you probably tried to kill something else without realizing it.

That is still scary (I'm not the OP).

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

gene heskett  wrote on 03/01/2022 at 02:24:53+0100:

> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 5:58:44 PM EST Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> gene heskett  wrote on 02/01/2022 at 23:53:19+0100:
>> > Greetings All;
>> > 
>> > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
>> > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
>> > screen reader to life.
>> > 
>> > Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
>> > kill
>> > another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
>> > 
>> > Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a
>> > very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
>> > speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to
>> > silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will
>> > shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining
>> > about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
>> > megabytes a week.
>> > 
>> > So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the
>> > log spamming at the same time?
>> > 
>> > I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless,
>> > but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
>> > 
>> > I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out
>> > 
>> > Thanks everybody.
>> 
>> Removing brltty will only lead to the removal of its reverse
>> dependencies and so on. This stops at:
>> 
>> * brltty-espeak
>> * brltty-flite
>> * brltty-speechd
>> * brltty-x11
>> 
>> None of which you need.
>> 
> That wasn't the end of the dependencies.  There were 4 more I removed
> and had to kill 2 of them in memory with htop once they were removed,
> but the log is finally silent.
> Thank you. Both for the help, and for learning my language so well.

This is weird. What where the 4 more reverse-dependencies of brltty you
are referring to? (if you tried to remove more than brltty this is
normal that you had more deps).

>> Theoretically, removing brltty and orca takes little with it.
>
> The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the
> way up thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.

I think you probably tried to kill something else without realizing it.

>> I don't have brltty installed on neither my bullseye nor my unstable
>> installs.
>> 
>> Regards,
>
>
> Cheers, Pierre-Elliott Bécue, Gene Heskett.

Cheers!

-- 
PEB

Re: [FIXED] Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Tom Dial]

On 1/3/22 02:46, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, January 3, 2022 1:59:56 AM EST john doe wrote:
...

>>
>> It would be nice if you could replicate the issue and file a bug report
>> against the Debian Installer with the D-I logs.
> 
> I appreciate that, but that means I'd have to do a complete re-install from 
> scratch, something I had to do 7 times already as its a full day per install 
> even when most of the storage is now SSD's in raid10 configs. The latest 
> generation of shingled spinning rust is a disaster looking for a place to 
> happen.  And that's just the bare metal install, nowhere near a working 
> system. To redo this system to the state its in now would take around a 
> week. And I still haven't gotten my web page working.

I think that if you did not purposely excise /var/log/installer/* the files 
should still be available. That is the case with my systems that were installed 
from media, some dating to 2006 (or likely earlier; I only checked three).

Regards,
Tom Dial

> 
>> John Doe
> 
> Cheers John, Gene Heskett.
> 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 3, 2022 4:42:56 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> On Mon 03 Jan 2022 at 04:33:53 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:47:08 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 22:31:27 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:54:29 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 17:53:19 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > > > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > screen reader to life.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think it's happened to you before, in May 2019. Was something
> > > > > plugged in when you installed your OS, that was misidentified?
> > > > 
> > > > That is a possibility I suppose as there are, and were then too at
> > > > least
> > > > 10 usb devices plugged in 100% of the time, keyboard & mouse both
> > > > wireless, 2 printers then, 1 left is an MFC so its a scanner too, a
> > > > ups, a CM11a, two cameras (one is a movie w/firewire) and 7 other
> > > > machines on net cables. That lis is incomplete so who knows what
> > > > might
> > > > be miss-id'd.
> > > 
> > > ISTR there was some sort of fast serial device involved, and the
> > > log you posted showed that it was fighting brltty, so that would
> > > appear to be the most likely candidate.
> > 
> > Hmmm, that triggers old memories, as it might be a 10 meter usb2 cable
> > with booster hubs in both ends, which formerly connected the minicom
> > program to a trs-80 color computer 3 in the basement via an rs232 card
> > plugged into its multipack interface expander. But it wasn't very fast,
> > the uart chip in it was all tapped out at 9600 baud, and rzsz was
> > limited to about 7200 baud due to its loop size being one byte, I was
> > always going to rewrite it to fully use the table lookup version of the
> > crc calcs but never found a round tuit. it was highly dependent on flow
> > control working, something that early uart chip did not do well.
> > Prolific who made the rs232<>usb convertor on the end of that cable,
> > never did quite get that right.
> > 
> > But that 2 megs of ram "coco" has now died, 35 yo electroytics
> > developing
> > high ESR so its dead now, and despite my being a CET, I'm too lazy in my
> > dotage to shotgun all the caps it it, but I believe that cable is still
> > plugged in to one of several multiport usb 2 or 3 hubs on this machine.
> > 
> > Do we still have a working usbtree like utility that might discover
> > this?
> > Such useful stuff seems to be falling off the edge in later versions of
> > linux.
> 
> I hadn't noticed that. I got a tree from   lsusb -t   and   lsusb -v
> gave me ~1000 lines despite saying that there were several devices
> it couldn't open, so information would be missing.

And I hadn't noticed it had all been merged into one util that could do it 
all so a -t gets me 21  devices and 21 errors. a -v gets me 1480 lines, but 
no culprit seems to be waving its hand at me if piped to less. Two sio 
adapter's show up but s/b two as the cm11a needs one also. heyu does its 
thing for Christmas lights and such.

> Cheers,
> David.
> 
> .


Cheers David, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[David Wright]

On Mon 03 Jan 2022 at 04:33:53 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:47:08 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> > On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 22:31:27 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:54:29 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 17:53:19 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > > > > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > > > > screen reader to life.
> > > > 
> > > > I think it's happened to you before, in May 2019. Was something
> > > > plugged in when you installed your OS, that was misidentified?
> > > 
> > > That is a possibility I suppose as there are, and were then too at least
> > > 10 usb devices plugged in 100% of the time, keyboard & mouse both
> > > wireless, 2 printers then, 1 left is an MFC so its a scanner too, a
> > > ups, a CM11a, two cameras (one is a movie w/firewire) and 7 other
> > > machines on net cables. That lis is incomplete so who knows what might
> > > be miss-id'd.
> > 
> > ISTR there was some sort of fast serial device involved, and the
> > log you posted showed that it was fighting brltty, so that would
> > appear to be the most likely candidate.
> > 
> Hmmm, that triggers old memories, as it might be a 10 meter usb2 cable with 
> booster hubs in both ends, which formerly connected the minicom program to a 
> trs-80 color computer 3 in the basement via an rs232 card plugged into its 
> multipack interface expander. But it wasn't very fast, the uart chip in it 
> was all tapped out at 9600 baud, and rzsz was limited to about 7200 baud due 
> to its loop size being one byte, I was always going to rewrite it to fully 
> use the table lookup version of the crc calcs but never found a round tuit. 
> it was highly dependent on flow control working, something that early uart 
> chip did not do well. Prolific who made the rs232<>usb convertor on the end 
> of that cable, never did quite get that right.
> 
> But that 2 megs of ram "coco" has now died, 35 yo electroytics developing 
> high ESR so its dead now, and despite my being a CET, I'm too lazy in my 
> dotage to shotgun all the caps it it, but I believe that cable is still 
> plugged in to one of several multiport usb 2 or 3 hubs on this machine.
> 
> Do we still have a working usbtree like utility that might discover this? 
> Such useful stuff seems to be falling off the edge in later versions of 
> linux.

I hadn't noticed that. I got a tree from   lsusb -t   and   lsusb -v
gave me ~1000 lines despite saying that there were several devices
it couldn't open, so information would be missing.

Cheers,
David.

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, 03 Jan 2022 04:33:53 -0500
gene heskett  wrote:

> Do we still have a working usbtree like utility that might discover
> this? Such useful stuff seems to be falling off the edge in later
> versions of linux.

Do you mean something like 'lsusb -t'?

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: [FIXED] Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 3, 2022 1:59:56 AM EST john doe wrote:
> On 1/3/2022 4:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:57:05 PM EST Jean-Philippe MENGUAL wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> Le 02/01/2022 à 23:53, gene heskett a écrit :
> >>> Greetings All;
> >>> 
> >>> Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> >>> x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> >>> screen reader to life.
> >> 
> >> That is strange. Should not happen. The accessibility is installed only
> >> if you press s or if you plug a braille device.
> >> 
> >>> Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
> >>> kill
> >>> another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
> >> 
> >> Perhaps you can provide your /var/log/installer log somewhere to enable
> >> the team to see what happent? Better, you could report bug to
> >> debian-installer (but probably show here the log first). The log will
> >> be
> >> required anyway.
> > 
> > That's now a month back in history, and this time the dependency hell
> > did
> > not occur so My Next problem is BIQU's, their best BX 3d printer is not
> > "square". But that is not debians problem and I can, given time and
> > caffeine, fix that.
> > 
> >>> Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking
> >>> a
> >>> very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
> >>> speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way
> >>> to
> >>> silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will
> >>> shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining
> >>> about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
> >>> megabytes a week.
> >> 
> >> Note waiting for a good solution for packages, in your desktop, you can
> >> disable the accessibility via the control panel.
> > 
> > And where do I find this "control panel".
> > 
> >>> So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill
> >>> the
> >>> log spamming at the same time?
> > 
> > Other advice has fixed that.
> > 
> >> ALso see wiki.debian.org/accessibility where you see the gsetting line
> >> to enable accessibility (type the same one replacing true with false to
> >> revert the thing).
> >> 
> >>> I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the
> >>> sightless,
> >>> but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
> >> 
> >> That is a bug I see for the first time. Hence my interest for a log, as
> >> so far no one reported it AFAIK.
> 
> The sooner you report an issue, the quicker it can be fixed for the
> comunity!!! :)
> 
> It would be nice if you could replicate the issue and file a bug report
> against the Debian Installer with the D-I logs.

I appreciate that, but that means I'd have to do a complete re-install from 
scratch, something I had to do 7 times already as its a full day per install 
even when most of the storage is now SSD's in raid10 configs. The latest 
generation of shingled spinning rust is a disaster looking for a place to 
happen.  And that's just the bare metal install, nowhere near a working 
system. To redo this system to the state its in now would take around a 
week. And I still haven't gotten my web page working.

> John Doe

Cheers John, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:47:08 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 22:31:27 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:54:29 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 17:53:19 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > > > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > > > screen reader to life.
> > > 
> > > I think it's happened to you before, in May 2019. Was something
> > > plugged in when you installed your OS, that was misidentified?
> > 
> > That is a possibility I suppose as there are, and were then too at least
> > 10 usb devices plugged in 100% of the time, keyboard & mouse both
> > wireless, 2 printers then, 1 left is an MFC so its a scanner too, a
> > ups, a CM11a, two cameras (one is a movie w/firewire) and 7 other
> > machines on net cables. That lis is incomplete so who knows what might
> > be miss-id'd.
> 
> ISTR there was some sort of fast serial device involved, and the
> log you posted showed that it was fighting brltty, so that would
> appear to be the most likely candidate.
> 
Hmmm, that triggers old memories, as it might be a 10 meter usb2 cable with 
booster hubs in both ends, which formerly connected the minicom program to a 
trs-80 color computer 3 in the basement via an rs232 card plugged into its 
multipack interface expander. But it wasn't very fast, the uart chip in it 
was all tapped out at 9600 baud, and rzsz was limited to about 7200 baud due 
to its loop size being one byte, I was always going to rewrite it to fully 
use the table lookup version of the crc calcs but never found a round tuit. 
it was highly dependent on flow control working, something that early uart 
chip did not do well. Prolific who made the rs232<>usb convertor on the end 
of that cable, never did quite get that right.

But that 2 megs of ram "coco" has now died, 35 yo electroytics developing 
high ESR so its dead now, and despite my being a CET, I'm too lazy in my 
dotage to shotgun all the caps it it, but I believe that cable is still 
plugged in to one of several multiport usb 2 or 3 hubs on this machine.

Do we still have a working usbtree like utility that might discover this? 
Such useful stuff seems to be falling off the edge in later versions of 
linux.

Thanks David.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [FIXED] Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[john doe]

On 1/3/2022 4:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:57:05 PM EST Jean-Philippe MENGUAL wrote:

Hi,

Le 02/01/2022 à 23:53, gene heskett a écrit :

Greetings All;

Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
screen reader to life.


That is strange. Should not happen. The accessibility is installed only
if you press s or if you plug a braille device.


Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
kill
another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.


Perhaps you can provide your /var/log/installer log somewhere to enable
the team to see what happent? Better, you could report bug to
debian-installer (but probably show here the log first). The log will be
required anyway.


That's now a month back in history, and this time the dependency hell did
not occur so My Next problem is BIQU's, their best BX 3d printer is not
"square". But that is not debians problem and I can, given time and
caffeine, fix that.


Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a
very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to
silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will
shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining
about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
megabytes a week.


Note waiting for a good solution for packages, in your desktop, you can
disable the accessibility via the control panel.


And where do I find this "control panel".


So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the
log spamming at the same time?


Other advice has fixed that.


ALso see wiki.debian.org/accessibility where you see the gsetting line
to enable accessibility (type the same one replacing true with false to
revert the thing).


I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless,
but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.


That is a bug I see for the first time. Hence my interest for a log, as
so far no one reported it AFAIK.



The sooner you report an issue, the quicker it can be fixed for the
comunity!!! :)

It would be nice if you could replicate the issue and file a bug report
against the Debian Installer with the D-I logs.

--
John Doe

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[David Wright]

On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 22:31:27 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:54:29 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> > On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 17:53:19 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > > screen reader to life.
> > 
> > I think it's happened to you before, in May 2019. Was something
> > plugged in when you installed your OS, that was misidentified?
> > 
> That is a possibility I suppose as there are, and were then too at least 10 
> usb devices plugged in 100% of the time, keyboard & mouse both wireless, 2 
> printers then, 1 left is an MFC so its a scanner too, a ups, a CM11a, two 
> cameras (one is a movie w/firewire) and 7 other machines on net cables. That 
> lis is incomplete so who knows what might be miss-id'd.

ISTR there was some sort of fast serial device involved, and the
log you posted showed that it was fighting brltty, so that would
appear to be the most likely candidate.

> > Of course, there's always the second item on the installer's main
> > menu: "Access software for a blind person using a braille display".
> > I assume you didn't press that accidentally.
> 
> You assume correctly.

Cheers,
David.

[FIXED] Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:57:05 PM EST Jean-Philippe MENGUAL wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Le 02/01/2022 à 23:53, gene heskett a écrit :
> > Greetings All;
> > 
> > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > screen reader to life.
> 
> That is strange. Should not happen. The accessibility is installed only
> if you press s or if you plug a braille device.
> 
> > Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
> > kill
> > another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
> 
> Perhaps you can provide your /var/log/installer log somewhere to enable
> the team to see what happent? Better, you could report bug to
> debian-installer (but probably show here the log first). The log will be
> required anyway.

That's now a month back in history, and this time the dependency hell did 
not occur so My Next problem is BIQU's, their best BX 3d printer is not 
"square". But that is not debians problem and I can, given time and 
caffeine, fix that.

> > Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a
> > very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
> > speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to
> > silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will
> > shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining
> > about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
> > megabytes a week.
> 
> Note waiting for a good solution for packages, in your desktop, you can
> disable the accessibility via the control panel.

And where do I find this "control panel".

> > So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the
> > log spamming at the same time?

Other advice has fixed that.
 
> ALso see wiki.debian.org/accessibility where you see the gsetting line
> to enable accessibility (type the same one replacing true with false to
> revert the thing).
> 
> > I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless,
> > but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
> 
> That is a bug I see for the first time. Hence my interest for a log, as
> so far no one reported it AFAIK.
> 
> Regards
> 
> > I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out
> > 
> > Thanks everybody.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> 
> .


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:54:29 PM EST David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 17:53:19 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > screen reader to life.
> 
> I think it's happened to you before, in May 2019. Was something
> plugged in when you installed your OS, that was misidentified?
> 
That is a possibility I suppose as there are, and were then too at least 10 
usb devices plugged in 100% of the time, keyboard & mouse both wireless, 2 
printers then, 1 left is an MFC so its a scanner too, a ups, a CM11a, two 
cameras (one is a movie w/firewire) and 7 other machines on net cables. That 
lis is incomplete so who knows what might be miss-id'd.

> Of course, there's always the second item on the installer's main
> menu: "Access software for a blind person using a braille display".
> I assume you didn't press that accidentally.

You assume correctly.
 
> Cheers,
> David.
> 
> .


Cheers David, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Jean-Philippe MENGUAL]

Hi,

Le 02/01/2022 à 23:53, gene heskett a écrit :

Greetings All;

Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for x86-64
systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the screen reader
to life.


That is strange. Should not happen. The accessibility is installed only 
if you press s or if you plug a braille device.




Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to kill
another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.


Perhaps you can provide your /var/log/installer log somewhere to enable 
the team to see what happent? Better, you could report bug to 
debian-installer (but probably show here the log first). The log will be 
required anyway.




Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a very
broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones speakers 20
db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to silence this w/o
destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will shut it up, but that
leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining about a missing library
every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40 megabytes a week.


Note waiting for a good solution for packages, in your desktop, you can 
disable the accessibility via the control panel.




So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the log
spamming at the same time?


ALso see wiki.debian.org/accessibility where you see the gsetting line 
to enable accessibility (type the same one replacing true with false to 
revert the thing).




I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless, but
why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.


That is a bug I see for the first time. Hence my interest for a log, as 
so far no one reported it AFAIK.


Regards


I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out

Thanks everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[David Wright]

On Sun 02 Jan 2022 at 17:53:19 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> 
> Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for x86-64 
> systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the screen reader 
> to life.

I think it's happened to you before, in May 2019. Was something
plugged in when you installed your OS, that was misidentified?

Of course, there's always the second item on the installer's main
menu: "Access software for a blind person using a braille display".
I assume you didn't press that accidentally.

Cheers,
David.

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 8:56:10 PM EST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> You can configure brltty to choose none as the voice and silence that.
> Perhaps it's time for debian to have an accessibility task that can be
> deselected by those that don't need accessibility yet.  All accessibility
> programs that annoy the temporarily able could be put into that task and
> have it either selected or not.  For those that do need accessibility, it
> would be nice if the installer would come up and speak over the sound card
> giving the temporarily able the option to turn speech off for the install
> like slint has done for the last couple years.  Apple has done this with
> Tiger 10.4 and every operating system it released since then.  That's how
> I installed and got my mac mini running without any sighted assistance.
> If I had seen the screen and answered the question with the keyboard
> quickly enough, the speech would never have turned on at all.
> 
A big, hearty, Amen! to that "task" suggestion, Jude.

> On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 2, 2022 5:58:44 PM EST Pierre-Elliott B?cue wrote:
> > > gene heskett  wrote on 02/01/2022 at 
23:53:19+0100:
> > > > Greetings All;
> > > > 
> > > > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > > > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > > > screen reader to life.
> > > > 
> > > > Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
> > > > kill
> > > > another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
> > > > 
> > > > Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice,
> > > > speaking a
> > > > very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
> > > > speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way
> > > > to
> > > > silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca
> > > > will
> > > > shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log
> > > > complaining
> > > > about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
> > > > megabytes a week.
> > > > 
> > > > So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill
> > > > the
> > > > log spamming at the same time?
> > > > 
> > > > I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the
> > > > sightless,
> > > > but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
> > > > 
> > > > I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks everybody.
> > > 
> > > Removing brltty will only lead to the removal of its reverse
> > > dependencies and so on. This stops at:
> > > 
> > > * brltty-espeak
> > > * brltty-flite
> > > * brltty-speechd
> > > * brltty-x11
> > > 
> > > None of which you need.
> > 
> > That wasn't the end of the dependencies.  There were 4 more I removed
> > and
> > had to kill 2 of them in memory with htop once they were removed, but
> > the
> > log is finally silent.
> > 
> > Thank you. Both for the help, and for learning my language so well.
> > 
> > > Theoretically, removing brltty and orca takes little with it.
> > 
> > The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the
> > way up thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.
> > 
> > > I don't have brltty installed on neither my bullseye nor my unstable
> > > installs.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > 
> > Cheers, Pierre-Elliott B?cue, Gene Heskett.
> 
> .


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Jude DaShiell]

You can configure brltty to choose none as the voice and silence that.
Perhaps it's time for debian to have an accessibility task that can be
deselected by those that don't need accessibility yet.  All accessibility
programs that annoy the temporarily able could be put into that task and
have it either selected or not.  For those that do need accessibility, it
would be nice if the installer would come up and speak over the sound card
giving the temporarily able the option to turn speech off for the install
like slint has done for the last couple years.  Apple has done this with
Tiger 10.4 and every operating system it released since then.  That's how
I installed and got my mac mini running without any sighted assistance.
If I had seen the screen and answered the question with the keyboard
quickly enough, the speech would never have turned on at all.


On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, gene heskett wrote:

> On Sunday, January 2, 2022 5:58:44 PM EST Pierre-Elliott B?cue wrote:
> > gene heskett  wrote on 02/01/2022 at 23:53:19+0100:
> > > Greetings All;
> > >
> > > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > > screen reader to life.
> > >
> > > Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
> > > kill
> > > another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
> > >
> > > Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a
> > > very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
> > > speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to
> > > silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will
> > > shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining
> > > about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
> > > megabytes a week.
> > >
> > > So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the
> > > log spamming at the same time?
> > >
> > > I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless,
> > > but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
> > >
> > > I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out
> > >
> > > Thanks everybody.
> >
> > Removing brltty will only lead to the removal of its reverse
> > dependencies and so on. This stops at:
> >
> > * brltty-espeak
> > * brltty-flite
> > * brltty-speechd
> > * brltty-x11
> >
> > None of which you need.
> >
> That wasn't the end of the dependencies.  There were 4 more I removed and
> had to kill 2 of them in memory with htop once they were removed, but the
> log is finally silent.
>
> Thank you. Both for the help, and for learning my language so well.
>
> > Theoretically, removing brltty and orca takes little with it.
>
> The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the way up
> thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.
>
> > I don't have brltty installed on neither my bullseye nor my unstable
> > installs.
> >
> > Regards,
>
>
> Cheers, Pierre-Elliott B?cue, Gene Heskett.
>

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[gene heskett]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 5:58:44 PM EST Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> gene heskett  wrote on 02/01/2022 at 23:53:19+0100:
> > Greetings All;
> > 
> > Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for
> > x86-64 systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the
> > screen reader to life.
> > 
> > Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to
> > kill
> > another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
> > 
> > Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a
> > very broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones
> > speakers 20 db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to
> > silence this w/o destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will
> > shut it up, but that leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining
> > about a missing library every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40
> > megabytes a week.
> > 
> > So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the
> > log spamming at the same time?
> > 
> > I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless,
> > but why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
> > 
> > I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out
> > 
> > Thanks everybody.
> 
> Removing brltty will only lead to the removal of its reverse
> dependencies and so on. This stops at:
> 
> * brltty-espeak
> * brltty-flite
> * brltty-speechd
> * brltty-x11
> 
> None of which you need.
> 
That wasn't the end of the dependencies.  There were 4 more I removed and 
had to kill 2 of them in memory with htop once they were removed, but the 
log is finally silent.

Thank you. Both for the help, and for learning my language so well.

> Theoretically, removing brltty and orca takes little with it.

The first time I tried to remove brltty, the removal cascaded all the way up 
thru all of gnome and xorg. Scary.

> I don't have brltty installed on neither my bullseye nor my unstable
> installs.
> 
> Regards,


Cheers, Pierre-Elliott Bécue, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: brltty=huge distraction for folks that don't need it.

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

gene heskett  wrote on 02/01/2022 at 23:53:19+0100:

> Greetings All;
>
> Without any conscious prompting by me, te debian 11.1 netinstall for x86-64 
> systems installed and setup whatever was needed to bring the screen reader 
> to life.
>
> Any thing related to a braile function that I try to remove wants to kill 
> another 2 or 3 gigs of system with it.
>
> Quite distracting to a sighted user when that robotic voice, speaking a very 
> broken bandwidth of what might be english, blaring out of ones speakers 20 
> db louder than firefoxes audio can I am sure, find a way to silence this w/o 
> destroying the rest of the system. Removing orca will shut it up, but that 
> leaves brltty spamming the daemon.log complaining about a missing library 
> every 5 seconds.  And that's close to 40 megabytes a week.
>
> So, how does one shut up this useless to me, screen-reader and kill the log 
> spamming at the same time?
>
> I think its great that folks have gone to that effort for the sightless, but 
> why is that sort of stuff always made mandatory.
>
> I'd sure appreciate any help cleaning it out 
>
> Thanks everybody.

Removing brltty will only lead to the removal of its reverse
dependencies and so on. This stops at:

* brltty-espeak
* brltty-flite
* brltty-speechd
* brltty-x11

None of which you need.

Theoretically, removing brltty and orca takes little with it.

I don't have brltty installed on neither my bullseye nor my unstable
installs.

Regards,

-- 
PEB